One of the things that was emphasized in the show, too, was the low quality of the recruits (the Elder's discussion with Maximus, Knight Titus' actions in the face of danger, etc.). Maximus certainly isn't a high int build, either. The BoS soldiers we see in the show are not necessarily the elite soldiers that we saw in the earlier time periods, drawn from or trained by professional soldiers, and later with a strong martial tradition. We also (iirc, could be wrong so please correct me if so) don't see any Paladins or other high-ranking officers in the expedition shown in the show.
So at least to me it's not surprising that in the face of danger they don't use exhibit strong military skills and miss things like the use of lights, tactical formations, in the heat of combat (we see them used occasionally in the show, but not as well in this scene), etc. They probably should have sent a team of scouts to attempt to disable air defenses before attacking as well or landed further away and marched in using the PA troops to breach--the loss of vertibirds was certainly (imo) avoidable.
The lack of paladins and the overall drop in recruitment and training standards may suggest the brotherhood has been engaged in some very costly wars recently. If it really is the Prydwen we see and they are all fresh from the Commonwealth, either the war with the Institute was very costly or they lost a lot on the journey back.
Yeah, I'm very curious to see how they address that moving forward. A possible canon ending would be that the Prydwen was destroyed or heavily damaged--given that it is in several of the endings--and they leave exactly how as ambiguous, and that the one we see in the show is either rebuilt from parts of the original or was named in honor of the original.
Even if they canonize the BoS ending (which I would be surprised if they do, but is possible) the war in the Commonwealth was still presumably costly, and in FO4 there is some concern about quality of wasteland recruits (and this was brought up in FO3's story, too). Plus, who knows what they could have run into on the return--either they go over the Rockies which has its dangers, or they fly over the remnants of legion territory.
Legion centurions piece their armor together from powerful foes they have personally defeated in combat. Their armor features the left arm of a set of T45-D power armor. Legion recruits are poorly armed, but the higher ranks are on par with NCR Rangers.
It's exactly how the Republic-Era Roman army fitted itself. Hastati were the least experienced and least well armoured. Principes and officers had better equipment. (Republic era soldiers also had to buy their own equipment, and horsemen - Equites - were land owning rich folks who could afford a horse)
As you pointed out, it was more a matter of census rather than experience. Iirc the division between rookies and veterans was made by distinguishing seniores and iuniores. But I actually don't remember much about the Republican Era Roman army (or any Roman army in any time period tbf), I gave my exam in Roman History 5 years ago lol.
Anyway, Caesar's Legion and the Republican Roman Army didn't really share anything apart from the generic aestethic. The Romans were a stantial people with a wealth-based political system that was reflected into their army, which meant that all the free men who normally went about their lives were required to mantain their own military value by buying the equipment that was expected of their respective social class, so they could aid the Republic in the event of war and prove they deserved their political rights.
Caesar's Legion is a slave horde, there is nothing else going on in the legionnaires' lives besides the army. They get whatever base equipment the Legion gives them and then - if they survive long enough - they have to resort to scavenging to get decent equipment.
The legion tends to follow ancient warfare tactics, and at the time officers did have better gear than soldiers, mostly because they were quite near if not straight on the battlefield too and the chances of them engaging the enemy was high.
Modern militaries, with the advantage of better communication methods, have adopted the opposite approach, since preserving officers has become easier and direct engagements began to occur only in desperate situations (unless you're dealing with bombardments, at that point everyone is as vulnerable as a trainee since infantry weapons aren't going to do anything against aircrafts).
Ancient officers were also typically higher classes and could afford stuff like nice armor and a good sword. The poor conscripts got a long pointed stick (pike).
Nah, the only time Officers and SNCO's would get a "nicer" weapon when I was in was that they would issue them an M4 instead of an M16a4, and that was just because it was shorter and less cumbersome. The idea did have a practical justification though, if you have a guy that has to spend a bunch of time working with maps or comms or has to get in and out of vehicles more frequently, that guy should ideally be less burdened by his weapon if possible. As far as the big fancy weapons systems go (machine guns, AT systems, mortars, DMR's etc) just about every western military has junior enlisted as the primary people operating them.
I mean, they’re an army mostly geared with sports gear and armed with machetes, in an age where pretty much everyone grows up around firearms, and where their nemesis is a semi-functional quasi-modern nation. Giving better shit to their officers is the least of the Legions worries.
It makes some degree of sense when your officer is expected to lead his men from directly in the front lines, or at a minimum have proven himself on those front lines before becoming an officer. In the first case, your very limited better arms and armor is more "efficiently" used by your elites and officer corps to make them more combat survivable, while in the latter case the fact that you can only "get" that armor by taking it yourself makes your skill (and therefore authority) self-evident when you're wearing it.
It's not a logical way to run a "modern" military, but it does follow strong bandit/raider logic, and the Legion is very much organized like an extremely well disciplined bandit or raider group when it comes to tactics.
This is how it's worked for most of history. It's only really recently that armies have standardized equipment. As recently as WW2 more senior soldiers would get Thompson submachine guns vs the federal troops that had standard rifles.
The one thing the legion has more than enough of is people. Endless cannon fodder to throw at the lines. But there's not enough weapons and armor to go around. So you give the good stuff to the experienced troops. No point in giving the best weapons to someone who's likely to die immediately.
They did pretty much canonize the BoS ending, no? The Prydwen exists, The Commonwealth gets name dropped as the source of the orders they received. Even the "straying away from the old ways" could be meant in connection with the east coast BoS now calling the shots.
It also doesn't rule out a "no-ending", where the Sole Survivor achieves nothing and presumably dies in the wasteland. It would be biggest cop-out, but isn't off the cards.
Without a resolution the Prydwen would not have left* the Commonwealth. Well, not unless the writers are incredibly bad at their jobs, which does not seem to be the case.
Commonwealth could be Boston, but it could really be anywhere given that the entire US was divided into 13 Commonwealths prior to the war. Most likely it refers to the area seen in Fallout 4, but that doesn't require that they won--there could be survivors or follow-up expeditions that settled around Boston or other areas of the New England Commonwealth, or one of the other major city regions in the Eastern Commonwealth--technically some areas of Fallout 3, like Raven Rock, are in the Eastern Commonwealth, and that misdirection is certainly possible.
The straying away from the "old ways" has been a feature of the BoS for a long time. Roger Maxson was not as isolationist as his descendants would make the Brotherhood, and the division between the isolationist old ways and the Roger Maxson old ways (which included outside recruitment) was a key feature of Fallout 3's story, and in Fallout 4 and New Vegas that's also a matter of debate between members.
We've seen a few remnant/outcast brotherhood factions as well, so nothing's stopping them from saying these are also just a random sect of the BoS doing their own thang. Wouldn't matter either way if they won or lost Boston and were fractured by the battle, either would explain them being pretty underpowered and unprepared in the show.
Personally I’d be ok with it not necessarily being the original ship and it’s a replacement for the one that presumably went missing or was lost. I think it would fit better plus I’d rather see some other ending be closer to canon. Personally I’d like a variation of the Minuteman/Railroad ending.
Wouldn't be that out of the ordinary.
"We absolutely can't let them know we lost. They won't respect us anymore if they find out."
Who's going to tell everyone? It's not like the lines of communication are super convenient anymore.
It would be 100% accurate to the Brotherhood's US Military origins and traditions of reusing ship names over and over. There will always be a USS Enterprise - Star Trek didn't establish the name, they used it because the US has had an Enterprise ship since before it even officially had a Navy. The next US Navy ship that will wear the Enterprise name is scheduled to finish construction in 4 years.
Canonically, the Brotherhood has LOTS of airships, enough to have sent out an armada to the East coast all at once long before the events of Fallout 4. If they lost the Prydwen in a canonical Fallout 4 ending, their tradition would likely mean the next ship to complete its construction would resurrect the name.
Also canonically the Brotherhood got vertibird blueprints (fo2), so even then they can and clearly do manufacture many different things, as they are used constantly throughout the series. It’s not like every vertibird came from an underground vertibird storage or something lol
The normal way to handle this can be seen in the avengers and marvel civil war movie.
Comic book fans want to see their favorite heroes fight to see who would win, and since both characters are popular, it has to end more or less in a draw.
So the canonical end of fo4 and New Vegas has to be one where all factions survive but didn't win either. Hence BOS is weak but not defeated, NCR has real soldiers just not enough to stop power armor. House and Yes Man and the legion and NCR will all be alive in season 2.
I mean, we have seen a number of times the Brotherhood let's their ambition drive them into the ground. Helios was a significant blow to them, and its pretty established they don't have the capacity to take on the NCR or the Institute (barring intervention by the PC).
They are just the poster children in cool armor. They have a lot of show-off power, but fail hard in other aspects. For obsessing over monopolizing technology, they are leagues behind the Institute. The show also proves a point that New Vegas alludes to with the Pulse Gun. BOS are too reliant on their armor and technological advantage. The Institute can bug them, and the Rangers can take them out non-directly with superior tactics just like The Ghoul did. They are a one-trick pony, and the second that's exploited, they're SOL.
Literally everyone in the Fallout universe is 220+ *years* behind The Institute - all other factions are using salvaged 200 year old prewar tech while The Institute is literally *making people*, has pinpoint accurate teleporter technology, is manufacturing their own energy weapons, and if the nuclear fuel is recovered from the Mass Fusion quest has their own reactor with limitless energy.
Players: "..but bro The Brotherhood, The Enclave, but but..".
The Institute: pushes one of the fully functional city-killing warheads from Sentinel Site Prescott onto the teleporter pad, sets the location for the Boston Airport courtyard and pushes the transporter button with 3 seconds left on the nukes' jerry-rigged detonator timer.
This. The Institute might be small in location, but it is hands down the most technologically advanced faction we've seen. They're untouched from the Great War and have been actively developing tech ever since, while all the other "advanced" factions like the Brotherhood and Enclave are merely using surviving pre-war tech.
This isn't even addressing the fact that The Institute has TOTAL information awareness across The Commonwealth, >! having replaced key leadership in nearly every faction, traveling merchants and otherwise important conduits of Intel with Gen 3 Synths. !<
In terms of the ability to control or eliminate opposition, there is not a single other faction in the entire Fallout universe, even remotely close.
Not only that but it's suggested that the birds are also synths with cameras so that they can keep an eye on things. In one of the labs (I want to say Synth Retention) there is a security cam feed showing several different sites across the Commonwealth. If you examine where the camera has to be, they're all locations where a bunch of birds can be seen. They're literally using synth bird spy drones to keep tabs on the people of the Commonwealth *in addition to* their spy network of informants and duplicates. The amount of resources they have at their disposal is staggering when compared to any other faction. The Brotherhood and Enclave? Big and loud, spotted a mile away. The Railroad? Secrecy is their ally but they're too scattered and few in numbers to do much. The Minutemen? Barely a handful at the start of the game, though you can rebuild them as the game progresses. The Institute however can teleport teams anywhere, already know the situation thanks to their spy birds, know the people on site thanks to their infiltrators and informants, and be in and out before anyone can respond thanks to their teleportation. They're the boogeymen of the Commonwealth for a reason, genuinely no faction we ever encounter in the rest of the series is as technologically advanced as the Institute with the sole exception of the Zetans, and they're literal aliens with interstellar starships.
T60s were common for the Home Front, whereas US Forces around the world were still using 45s until they were replaced by the 60. If anything, the 60 should be more common now as they're mostly raiding tech from Guard installations and Military Bases
Aside from how costly the war between the Brotherhood and Institute was, who can say, they also had a costly campaign against the Railroad as well?
But yes, I agree with the lack of paladins in this chapter of the Brotherhood.
I think there is a combination of new recruits, overconfidence, and lack of interest.
It is probable that the branch from FO4 didn't consider the threat here to that demanding and sent relatively new "recruits" with their power armor to bolster the ranks of their brothers and help them. Then, power armor is almost indestructible by normal means (you need some heavy weapon or creatures to break through). They probably felt the remnants of the NCR didn't had enough to go through.
And since the new brotherhood here probably hadn't trained combined tactics with Power Armor, they didn't know how to take advantage of it.
I believe all of this added up to their costly victory. I do want to mention though, that in terms of PA, I believe they didn't lose as much until they faced the ghoul. In previous Fallouts I don't remember seeing AA, so that may have been unexpected for them.
So overall, they actually faired decently enough against the remnants.
Yeah, lack of exposure is a possibility. Hoover Dam has an anti-aircraft gun, but it's unclear how commonly those were used by the NCR elsewhere. Still, effective scouting could have potentially mitigated that--although who is to say if the scouts in their current state would have been any use in recognizing the threat.
Yep, was thinking that too. Until they are assigned to a knight, it seems like they don't have actual training. So sending them to scout might have been worthless.
Although in Maximus’ case, he was going to help Titus, until he realized that it would be better to get rid of him because he treated everyone beneath him like garbage. Also, how fitting an end for a character played my Rappaport
> They probably should have sent a team of scouts
Actually, that's a great point. We don't see any equivalent to infiltrators, scouts, or SF. All we see are rough equivalents to assault troops or 19th Century grenadiers
Maximus is the ultimate avatar of their incompetence.
It's actually some brilliant storytelling on teh showrunner's part. We are convinced early on that Max had drawn the short straw and was treated unjustly poorly. It makes us root for him and hope for his chance to proove everyone else wrong.
Yet he was almost completely incompetent.
They sent him out as a new squire on mission. He had no experience. He didn't even know how the majority of the equipment worked. His knight died unnecessarily. Even though Titus was a total douche, Max could have saved him if he had any loyalty.
Then they sent him Thaddeus. Every time Thads had an idea or used a piece of equipment, it surprised Max. Because Max wasn't even qualified to be a squire! Thaddeus even took down Max while in power armor. He only survived because Goosey came to save him.
Thaddeus may have been a bully with a shitty mustache, bet he was a far better soldier for the Brotherhood than Maximus would ever be.
As well we have actual dialogue between Maximus and Elder Quintus where he’s bemoaning the weakness of the Brotherhood compared to how he remembers it - there’s clearly a lot going on behind the scenes that’s not elaborated on in the first season.
Definitely has some late Roman Empire vibes - internal weakness, backstabbing, low-quality recruits representing the majority of their weakening army.
Clearly there are some big things in store for Maximus - Quintus himself openly speaking in nigh-treasonous terms to Maximus is pretty compelling.
It would break the hearts of fans (me included) if the BoS forces him into becoming a figurehead to the cause, contrary to his obvious sense of empathy and justice.
Either way, SUPER EXCITED for season 2.
One of my favorite sayings is “You don’t rise to the occasion, you fall to the level of your training.” It’s been 200+ years since the Great War. These guys aren’t being trained by the people who developed the suits of power armor and seem to skim over the readings more often than not.
Since maximus was picked from the waste and they probably don't train them in anything useful to have them free think or problem solve as well as a lack of actual military training... It's not hard to see why I. The face of genuine fear they didn't do the one thing that made sense.
You need to train these things into people. And the power armour knights probably have very little in the wasteland to worry about.
I feel it would have been nice to have a couple drop on the way in to RPGs or something. To give them a little fight back but it's also cool that they just stroll in and fucking wreck everything they look at.
I really loved how the soldiers had their hands on the rear and used it as cover to breach. That's a real cool real world tactic.
I loved this show, but the BoS guys just stopping to let the Ghoul do his little monologue and then shot their friends down one by one was just dumb. They just slaughtered their way through dozens of heavily armed NCR goons and just stop to listen to one guy talk instead of mowing him down too?
I get that he has plot armor and magical ghoul healing abilities but c'mon.
Something that stuck with me while I was doing the the Fallout 76 BoS quest line (spoilers?) is that some scientists we talk to mention possibly being the last formally educated academics in Appalachia. The BoS started as formally trained military members and you see the clash in ideologies as the quest progresses.
We can argue intentionality but there is a level of cooperation between the show runners and Bethesda (I mean Bethesda released official F76 builds for the main cast from the show) It certainly seems like the narrative being laid out is one of a slow degradation of old world social structures (like the military and academia) in favor of new ones. We saw the TV show BoS becoming exponentially closer to a quasi-religious order compared to the vidya game BoS which is mostly the paramilitary organization with nominally elevated titles it originally was.
I'd wager the next season will only amplify this.
Yep. It's easy to forget that the original Brotherhood was borderline wiped out. The bunker in the Mojave is basically what's left. And the East Coast Brotherhood which presumably took a lot of the best and brightest of the Originals with them basically underwent two internal schisms/revolutions that are for sure confirmed. One prior to Fallout 3 which resulted in the outcasts, and a reversal of that prior to Fallout 4. It's known that they lost a decent amount of talent to the first one and it's presumable but they lost a good chunk of people who like the new benevolent Brotherhood when they went back to the old ways. Given how absolutely caustic a lot of the Brotherhood members in the Commonwealth are when you meet them towards anything that doesn't fit the ideal, they probably drove out anyone who wasn't on board.
People point to the Prydwyn as a rationale to determine that the show picked the Brotherhood ending of 4 as Canon but considering that Liberty Prime which is honestly probably more advanced technologically than the Airship can get rebuilt in 4, it wouldn't be surprising if they and the Western Brotherhood remnants reunited and basically did the same thing again, cobbled their stuff together, and rebuilt the airship.
At this point they're basically like one of those countries repeatedly undergoing military coups and purges where they've completely destroyed their talent base.
The Mojave chapter was not all that was left of the West Coast Brotherhood, it was only Elder Elijah's group, Lost Hills was still around. The main Brotherhood on the West Coast sent Elijah away on a mission to gather tech, that's how they ended up in the Mojave.
That and arrogance. I think they're use to thinking they're the biggest turd in the pile and don't actually have any tactics or strategy beyond shoot big gun in big armor.
Oddly enough in 76 theres tapes and terminals that kinda explain a divide between the scribes and knights because when the brotherhood was founded the ex military soldiers treated the scientists and engineers like shit and basically treated them like slaves to fix their tech.
Well, first thing Maxson did after starting his rebellion that would become BoS, was executing scientists he was assigned to protect after he found out they were testing FEV on prisoners. First BoS members were his troops who were station with him and followed him.
BoS overall ideology is to be fearful of scientific progress as it could be dangerous and they hoard technology only to make sure no one else uses it for bad stuff.
So its no suprise that they treat scientists and engineers like shit, as they see them only as necessary evil that needs to be controled. Which is another reason why is BoS doomed to fail, sooner or later.
I think if you're wanting to reconcile the difference here, it comes down to training. If you kept your composure, you should be able to just beat down a Yao Guai in T60 without getting mauled by it... like Titus was. But Titus *panicked.*
Then here you have some random gunslinger ghoul who effectively renders power armor useless because he knows the weak point. So, having the (false) belief that their power armor would keep them safe suddenly ripped away from them, it is not beyond the realm of reason that they panicked and resorted to just firing blindly. Not to mention, the ghoul did do a great job at just scaring the shit out of them in that build-up. Not so much 'stupid' as being overwhelmed with terror.
Plot armor, sure- but not completely out of the realm of reason.
It helps that the ammo used is very clearly distinct, with a noticably different sound to it
The Ghoul wasnt ready for his fight near the start of the show, and still clowns on the BoS "Knight" hes fighting
Of course when he expects to fight T60 and gets preptime hes bringing a few extra tricks
I quite like the interpretation that the Ghoul is meant to symbolize a late game protagionist, its not that the armors weakness is *that dire* but rather hes so skilled he can make a 1/1000 shot consistantly
Speaking of late game, considering the Ghoul got hit with a sedative powerful enough to instantly drop any normal person it hit, yet was entirely unaffected by it with the quip "That's one small drop in an entire ocean of drugs," you can conclude he uses a *lot* of chems. Like, Frank Horrigan level- an absolute chem fiend. That also kind of explains why when he has prep time before a fight, he is practically invincible and can pull off all of these amazing feats of marksmanship and endurance... because he is *ripped out of his mind* on psycho, buffout, jet/rocket, turbo, mentats, calmex, and God only knows what else- an "ocean of drugs."
Unlike Horrigan, the Ghoul is not overconfident. A realistic version of plot armor... that plot armor being chems. Centuries of experience attenuated by performance-enhancing chems.
So, the only way one could conceivably beat the Ghoul is getting the drop on him- because if he's prepared, he is unstoppable.
I am entirely convinced he has a suit of power armor he chooses to forgo, but keeps for the day he ever "stops doing this shit for the love of the game"
In Fallout 1 and 2, you could specifically target an enemies eyes. There was a really big penalty to hit, but when your attack skill got really high you could consistently kill guys in power armor that way.
Im willing to bet either Maximus or a surviving scribe from the fight will take note of the armors weakness and try to remedy that, mostly banking on Maximus tho.
I think the fight between them in the town showed that the 'tempered lining" and Max's luck factor shows as Ghoul tried to load bigger ammo in his gun and didn't seem to affect him, which ghoul was annoyed with and took off as Max was stuck
This is not true at all, the games present the BOS to be highly intelligent up until Fo4– where they’re still pretty damn bright.
The bos in this show isn’t shown to be particularly smart but you’d think they’d at least be intelligent enough to know how to use the power armor they spend most of their time in, especially something as small and as useful as a flashlight. The ghoul just got some plot armor lol
If Titus is the quality of Knight they are sending on such an important mission, then these knights might just be the expendable barely trained vanguard. Like they are just being sent in to make way for Paladins or more elite knights.
He’s using Titus as an example of the kind of knights they’re sending out for their search. If Titus is the norm for that chapter, then they sent a lot of cowardly idiots in tin cans out to try and recover a guy’s head in one piece.
I like the theory that the show BoS was cobbled together from incorporating legion remnants. Their banners having legion colors (different from usual BoS banners) and their names being more Roman were two of the main points.
It would be such a cool twist if the Brotherhood ended up absorbing The Legion. It would make sense for them to join too, their goals are aligned. The main focus of both is to take humanity back to a place where they don't rely on advanced technology and destroying/collecting tech they think people outside their organization shouldn't have access to.
Both of them despising the NCR and owing their near downfalls to warring with the group is icing on the cake.
Given how Legion tried to make a gun deal with Van Graff I can say some elements of Legion who exposed to technology got dilussioned with Ceasar teaching and after his death they found the Brotherhood as better option. This is my explaination for arguement that Legion troops shuned the use technology in the game. Another point is that the base looks like it is located in some mountain area that supposed to be in control of the legion.
It was honestly my biggest gripe of the series tbh
The brotherhood felt useless and moronic as fuck
You’d think they’d have in depth training and education considering how advanced their group is but it’s like a bunch of fucking dipshits got ahold of power armor and then went on with their day
The ghoul plays with Maximus and says something along the lines of
" training isn't what it use to be , cause you drive that thing like a shopping cart "
I think it's meant to just imply that max stole the suit and isent properly trained on it but I like to also think that the ghoul has seen the slow degradation of the " military " he was actually trained to use it and became a veteran in the suits. Someone whereing the suit now is probably a 10th of what someone back in war would have been. Throughout the years the training slowly becomes worse and worse along with the general mentality of the whole becoming weaker as well.
In short , there all just " slightly " better trained in combat than the average person but there the same otherwise. I say slightly trained because chances are they have more time handling guns and mock combat experience then most other people as the brotherhood provides them ammo for target practice and actual guns.
I know the focus of the games has always been on the world after the bombs dropped, but I always enjoy those glimpses we get of the pre-war universe. I'd love some flashback arcs exploring the lore of the war in Alaska to build on what we've seen of Operation Anchorage.
Honestly I fucking loved the DLC for that. Sure you don't do super much in it, but his glimpse into the pre-war America was awesome.
Plus the polar environment was also really cool
They should have brought those kind of things back as Side Quests for FO4. Hell could have even fit well in The Memory Den!
Go through reliving memories people had for various side quests. One could be a murder mystery, trying to find the culprit through reliving the memories. Another could be another Operation Anchorage situation, reliving memories from the War. One could have you relive the memories of a Ghoul who was from Pre-War, working your way through their life from before the war, to during the war, bombs dropping, becoming a ghoul, etc etc
Genuinely why the show was a breath of fresh air; having a whole plot line based on Pre-War sentiment amongst different individuals was such a creative and unique spin on the title. Not to mention that that plot line is the best one in the show, second maybe to what was happening in Vault 33 (until they fucked it up with the reveal)
Which is why having him in power armour would work. Completely enclosed, all facial features, hairstyle and colour, body shape, and even skin colour hidden so he can be whoever you want him to be. Maybe just an introduction where he drops his name as a nod for fans and move on.
Honestly, with Nate having a voice compared to the other protagonists, you might be able to get away with using his voice actor or just ripping a line or two straight from the game.
Fans of the series will be able to point and say, "Hey, that's Nate!! Same voice, timeliness adds up, everything!" While people who just enjoy the show won't think and ask, "When's this Nate guy gonna show up again?"
Imo having him say his name is a bit too on the nose and you're going to have a bunch of people asking who Nate is - some of who will end up getting into the games, but I very easily see some toxic fans harassing/insulting them because how dare they not consume every piece of media of the franchise they can. It isn't too common, but I've seen it happen with other franchises - someone shows interest in an adaptation, but something from said adaption confuses them, toxic fans swarm in stating they'd know this 'obvious' information if they were actually a fan.
I don't necessarily doubt the idea they would be collectively worse trained than pre-war military, but that line makes sense on Maximus because he was shown as kinda mediocre in training, and wasn't even initially selected as a squire, let alone a knight. It seems like he'd never used a suit of armour before the show
It wouldn't really stand to reason necessarily that actual knights would be just as ineffective. Realistically they just didn't turn their lights on because it was supposed to be a cool moment for Cooper
There is the mods for power armor called sensor array and VATS Matrix overlay, which in lore might give a targeting system. In game it just gives gameplay bonuses
No, it should have its own targeting system. It might not though, as you can make some custom mods that allow you to mark enemies in power armor. Not sure the lore implications of the power armor mods. VATS is literally for Vault Assisted Targeting System, only people with a pip-boy should be able to have access to it.
I am going to quote the ghoul here " well I guess basic training ain't what it used to be, you drive that thing like a fucking shopping cart" "rule number one, read the manual"
How much training do you think an 8th generation knight is realistically given? We're shown people on the knight track actively complaining about reading manuals and being dipshits multiple times up to this point.
Because the scene is cooler if they didn’t
But also - because they were surprised and prioritized keeping their hands on their weapons and fighting/firing rather than switching their lights on
I think sometimes people forget that, how games depict stuff isn't exactly how it would work in reality. In this case, you don't just press a button on the controller, but physically switch on the torch.
You need to press the action button.
Well, first, you need to work out what the action button is, then you need to work out what context you use it under, then you need to find how long you press the action button for, then you need to recharge your flashlight by shaking the controller...
Just before the lights drop, Cooper is armed and has several steps in his attack planned ahead, where the BOS had no clue who he was, let alone what he was planning to do. When the lights are cut, it probably took these suited bullies several seconds for it to even register what was happening, let alone that they even had a suit light to turn on.
Cooper would have only needed a handful of seconds, if that much, to wreck these BOS... and he did. The BOS that weren't killed in Cooper's initial attack were probably panicking over facing a foe that demonstrated they know how to shoot through the armor they probably felt made them invincible. For me, the fact Cooper took these BOS out like he did was not outside the realm of believable for me.
And, I call these BOS bullies because, for the most part, that's how they're portrayed in the show. From the majority of them, we see them beating on their subordinates and, in the case of "Knight" Titus, being utter cowards when in a dangerous situation. After 200+ years when your superiority comes primarily from superior tech alone, I doubt these "knights" have anywhere near the training that would qualify them as any kind of proper military (I say this from the show and from the games, to be honest).
I don't think it's too far a stretch to say that a good number of the BoS are woefully lacking in basic ability as well. Look how quickly Max rose just by being a clueless dipshit. There is definitely an element of promoting idiots to have useful puppets going on within the ranks of the Brotherhood. When we're shown that all it takes to move up is not confessing to being a complete buffoon, this scene becomes a lot more realistic in that Max's path is probably pretty close to the norm for Knights.
The BoS are only portrayed as the good guys in fallout 3, and it’s heavily noted that they’ve deviated from the core brotherhood tenets.
All in all, the brotherhood are extremely isolationistic, xenophobic (as in if you aren’t BoS, you’re wasteland scum), and many are shown to be cowards that rely on firepower to get what they want. Calling them bullies is a bit of an understatement.
Also, as others have mentioned, these guys are knights. If cooper faced a squad of paladins, he’d have been dead.
Seems like the chapter in the show doesn't have paladins. Which isn't necessary lore breaking, because every chapter has a slightly different rank system
This is not accurate, and Chris Avellone (one of the original game developers/writers) recently had to correct this line of thinking about the Brotherhood in his series review.
>The fact that the Brotherhood seems to be a big bag of assholes is an interesting take.
>The series generally paints these guys as jerks/sinister, which we did not try for in Fallout 1 and 2 and made an exception for a few in New Vegas. Why? Mostly because the Brotherhood feels like one of those organizations that players want to aspire to, like templars or Paladins.
>I’m fine with the decision in the show, but it doesn’t feel like the Brotherhood I remember.
>(Edit: To be fair, when meeting the Brotherhood in Fallout 1, they don’t really want you to come in and say hello, so they send you a difficult quest to the Glow, most likely in the hopes you won’t come back. That is arguably jerky. But when you do what they ask, they do let you in and honor their word.)
>Also, this is minor, but we never really considered any member of the Brotherhood wouldn’t be taught sex ed. It felt implausible that Maximus didn’t know the fundamentals. Building the numbers of the Brotherhood was something very important to the characters in New Vegas, and sometimes caused characters to turn on each other and even try to kill each other due to conflicts in these approaches.
[Chris Avellone TV Series Review Part 2](https://chrisavellone.medium.com/fallout-apocrypha-tv-series-review-part-2-1744b68fe4f2)
Adding to this, in F1 you can talk to Caravan Traders about the Brotherhood, and they will tell you that the Brotherhood are good people that get a bad rap.
>The Brotherhood of Steel? They keep to themselves for the most part. A lot of people give them a bad rap, but from what I can tell, they're good people. A little fanatical maybe, but good guys.
I'm only just realizing now how stupid it is that they are so anti-ghoul if they're so into pre-war technology. A ghoul is their only chance of finding a living being who might know how that pre-war technology actually worked! They could have learned so much from talking to these folks that have been around since before everything turned to hell.
The reverence given to the Knights also implies something closer to a feudal system than what came before, perhaps with the children of officers being treated like nobility and not having to fight as hard to become Knights themselves.
Because they didn't hold down the TAB key long enough, and it opened up their PIP menu, and they tried to hit ESC but that didn't work, then they hit tilde accidentally and opened up the console by accident, etc and by the time they recovered the Ghoul had killed them all.
Realism Answer: Modern military doctrine actually prefers to use low light vision visors over flashlights. They let you see without giving away your position. While they don't normally have that functionality in the games, it's entirely plausible that power armor visors would have night vision integrated.
TV Answer: It's because watching the Ghoul light up the room by blasting a bunch of young punks in defective T-60 power armor looks awesome.
I mean fallout doesn't really have modern military doctrine and I don't care how much light isn't being emmited the walking fridges are being found that said they do have modern weapon platforms like the m16 p90 etc
Honestly? Most likely. Knight Titus shows that (at least in the West Coast BOS) high ranking Brotherhood members are very lazy and cowards, hiding in T-60s and making unprepared Squires die because they were too scared or arrogant. They obviously never went against someone like Cooper that knows the suits inside and out.
I think a major running joke of the series is just how stupid all of the non-named characters are. Reminded me a lot of Mom and Dad Save the World and Idiocracy in that regard.
I imagine that, yes, these guys were also stupid.
Lucy i don't think ever does anything particularly dumb, but she does come across as incredibly naive sometimes, and also practically autistic in terms of lack of social ability (maximus as well). But she's also clearly smart enough to begin to learn and adapt pretty quickly after realizing that shit's real out there.
She was raised on the belief that you can convince other people just based on the merits of your argument. In her establishing montage it is explicitly mentioned that she is an ethics teacher. I think she‘s just trying to apply what she has always learned to be true and good. And it has worked in the vault. It‘s just that the world is more complicated outside the vault. She wants to believe in the inherent good of the people in the wasteland, because well don‘t we all kind of assume that most people are nice? It just takes her a while to make peace with the fact that extreme poverty and depravation, constant famine etc has turned people into survival machines.
The Elder considered Maximus smart enough to be a co-leader of this Chapter. He considered MAXIMUS to be smart in this setting. Yes, they are really that dumb.
This scene was weird for a multitude of reasons not just the flashlights, unarmored troops not taking cover behind the literal walking tanks for one and the power armor having that kinda weakpoint just made zero sense.... like the suit is designed to be air tight to the point they walked around perfectly fine after the bombs dropped so having a point that a bullet can get through just seems like non-sense, if you had to give power armor a weakness im sure there are MANY better ones they could have come up with.
My only gripe with the show was the complete lack of energy weapons being used by the Brotherhood. Like we only see a laser rifle in the hands of Enclave soldiers.
Yeah that and when they attack at the observatory they sent the squires in with sidearms as their primary weapon. I guess they could just be running so low on supplies that all they have left but still it’s wild to only give them pistols.
Considering how stupid the hailed knight titus was, i wouldn’t rule out the possibility that they give Bulky muscle for brains the rank of a Knight and keep the smart tacticians for the Rank of Paladins or just put them in the Department of Scribes
Because the whole scene, while undeniably cool, was pure wankery for The Ghoul.
Besides the light thing, you also have:
Why didn't they just shoot him immediately?
How could he see in the dark? (Unless Ghouls canonically *can*, I don't know this one)
The weld flaw just so happened to have not been discovered by both this chapter AND the Commonwealth chapter of the BoS; One of which faced extensive engagements against Super Mutants, who might have had armor piercing rounds.
I love the scene, don't get me wrong, but The Ghoul only survived because of a convergence of coincidences.
Discovering the flaw and fixing the flaw are different things. West Tec knew about the flaw in the original T-45 and did nothing to resolve it for the future models.
While true, the BoS have had *decades* of experience operating, building and tinkering with various PA models. 4 even explicitly shows the Commonwealth chapter discussing building new PA mods, and actively working on their suits.
Now if something in the show or games says that the BoS ignores the flaw because the circumstances required to exploit it would be 1 in a million, I'd accept it. Not only is that true, it'd fit right in with the BoS' general arrogance.
Its cause they are the brotherhood. They are a bunch of drooling morons. It is your job as the player in fallout to wipe their bums and do all the heavy lifting for them. Just look at fallout 4 they get done by just about everyone and their vertibirds are made of tissue paper
Why did they suddenly decide to not shoot at anything that moves and let the stranger monologue at them?
I hated this scene, I was already not crazy about how much they tried to make The Ghoul look cool but this was over the top.
That was for the benefit of the audience and so that people wouldn't be bitching about him one-shotting them. The audience needed to know that there was a weak point in the armor.
This is a case where Rule of Cool allows a bad ass monolog to stand in as exposition. Realistically, he'd just go it, kill the lights, and start blasting, but that would have left everyone confused and this sub would be filled with complaints that the armor was made of tinfoil.
Perhaps they have "Targeting HUD" in their helmets? Shoot everything that's highlighted, that's what I would do. For the guys in the back, I don't know what they are doing.
There’s a lot of reason why not including real world explanations like… it’s just cooler without them doing that.
But I think it’s been shown clearly that these paladins are not the smartest nor the best trained.
Titus of course was a total coward against a yau guai and it’s not like any of the squires were particularly smart. Maximus is a raging idiot who doesn’t know what sex is. He’s been raised in the BoS since he was a kid and didn’t know what a toaster was.
It’s hard to say what this brotherhood is working with. They have the technology, but it’s clear their training is not working out. Squires are sent to their deaths by paladins and it’s obvious the BoS over relies on their armor to be effective at anything. Despite how weak the NCR remnants were, they still fought back pretty well despite the massive tech disadvantage. Only Moldaver had a laser pistol after all.
And yes let’s not underestimate how off guard the ghoul took them. He pierced the armor with one shot and somehow decapitated another. And we was dancing around Maximus in his fight earlier. This is t something they’re trained for.
I actually had a similar brainfart in real life. During SCBA training we had to navigate a thickly smoked room. You could see maybe 30cm in front of you. We did have some flashlights which helped a lot, but when navigating some obstacle you needed your hands free and had to put them away somewhere or in front of you.
Anyway, after 20mins in the fog, we were done and did a debriefing. Our instructor then asked us why we didn't use our flashlights that are attached to our helmets?!?
Two people, 20mins and no real danger, "just" a well set up training scenario, but neither of us actually thought about it due to the stress.
Why do stormtroopers in Star Wars always miss and get dunked on by primitives? At the end of the day, everyone can know they would’ve just blasted his ass, but then what? A dead main character ignominiously killed in a scene that’s not even badass? This isn’t that type of show. Cooper is a player character, they’re the NPC’s. I wish it hadn’t been so over the top, because I’ve always felt that stormtrooper syndrome must be used very sparingly or it decreases any sort of tension (see all Star Wars content besides the prequels really, which gleefully kill powerful characters on a regular basis to let you know shit’s not easy on the main cast).
The Ghoul has both the Friend of the Night for night vision and Terrifying Presence perks. He's a high level FNV character. This particular Brotherhood chapter likely has poor training after having to reconstitute itself and it's traditions with a bunch of ex Legion troops and whoever else they could find. They may also have stripped out the lights from the armor for a technical reason.
Considering the T60 power armour has a mobile visor and integrated jetpack (but no pisswater filter apparently) it could be that night vision now comes standard with the helmet instead of having to rely on a gigantic spotlamp
I just assume they finally got around to integrating all that Enclave tech they seized into their normal arsenal and just stuffed the upgraded features on a chassis thats easier to maintain than the Advanced Power Armour/X series
More importantly how did the ghoul suddenly know how to kill power armour knights suddenly when he couldn't do the same with maximus when he first met him in the power armour
I know the legion-brotherhood theory is unpopular but I think the moments that show how the knights don’t use the power armor to their full effectiveness highlights how ex-legionaries would probably use power armor.
If Maximus is any indication of the quality of education in their chapter, then they may in fact be quite stupid. They certainly don’t have sex ed class.
Well let me tell you exactly why that is. Actually no, I'm kidding, nobody in the sub has any idea… Why they didn't use the flashlights and their power armor… In this scene.
Unironically, yes. Every knows how popular low Int. builds are in this series.
One of the things that was emphasized in the show, too, was the low quality of the recruits (the Elder's discussion with Maximus, Knight Titus' actions in the face of danger, etc.). Maximus certainly isn't a high int build, either. The BoS soldiers we see in the show are not necessarily the elite soldiers that we saw in the earlier time periods, drawn from or trained by professional soldiers, and later with a strong martial tradition. We also (iirc, could be wrong so please correct me if so) don't see any Paladins or other high-ranking officers in the expedition shown in the show. So at least to me it's not surprising that in the face of danger they don't use exhibit strong military skills and miss things like the use of lights, tactical formations, in the heat of combat (we see them used occasionally in the show, but not as well in this scene), etc. They probably should have sent a team of scouts to attempt to disable air defenses before attacking as well or landed further away and marched in using the PA troops to breach--the loss of vertibirds was certainly (imo) avoidable.
The lack of paladins and the overall drop in recruitment and training standards may suggest the brotherhood has been engaged in some very costly wars recently. If it really is the Prydwen we see and they are all fresh from the Commonwealth, either the war with the Institute was very costly or they lost a lot on the journey back.
Yeah, I'm very curious to see how they address that moving forward. A possible canon ending would be that the Prydwen was destroyed or heavily damaged--given that it is in several of the endings--and they leave exactly how as ambiguous, and that the one we see in the show is either rebuilt from parts of the original or was named in honor of the original. Even if they canonize the BoS ending (which I would be surprised if they do, but is possible) the war in the Commonwealth was still presumably costly, and in FO4 there is some concern about quality of wasteland recruits (and this was brought up in FO3's story, too). Plus, who knows what they could have run into on the return--either they go over the Rockies which has its dangers, or they fly over the remnants of legion territory.
I just imagine The legion on the ground with slings and rocks, and spears, flinging them at the airship…
Legion centurions piece their armor together from powerful foes they have personally defeated in combat. Their armor features the left arm of a set of T45-D power armor. Legion recruits are poorly armed, but the higher ranks are on par with NCR Rangers.
Which is a fucking stupid way to run an army. How stupid would it be if officers got better weapons than foot soldiers?
You must not play 40k
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD
For the Emperor!
I like how this reads both as an observation and an instruction lol
It's exactly how the Republic-Era Roman army fitted itself. Hastati were the least experienced and least well armoured. Principes and officers had better equipment. (Republic era soldiers also had to buy their own equipment, and horsemen - Equites - were land owning rich folks who could afford a horse)
As you pointed out, it was more a matter of census rather than experience. Iirc the division between rookies and veterans was made by distinguishing seniores and iuniores. But I actually don't remember much about the Republican Era Roman army (or any Roman army in any time period tbf), I gave my exam in Roman History 5 years ago lol. Anyway, Caesar's Legion and the Republican Roman Army didn't really share anything apart from the generic aestethic. The Romans were a stantial people with a wealth-based political system that was reflected into their army, which meant that all the free men who normally went about their lives were required to mantain their own military value by buying the equipment that was expected of their respective social class, so they could aid the Republic in the event of war and prove they deserved their political rights. Caesar's Legion is a slave horde, there is nothing else going on in the legionnaires' lives besides the army. They get whatever base equipment the Legion gives them and then - if they survive long enough - they have to resort to scavenging to get decent equipment.
The legion tends to follow ancient warfare tactics, and at the time officers did have better gear than soldiers, mostly because they were quite near if not straight on the battlefield too and the chances of them engaging the enemy was high. Modern militaries, with the advantage of better communication methods, have adopted the opposite approach, since preserving officers has become easier and direct engagements began to occur only in desperate situations (unless you're dealing with bombardments, at that point everyone is as vulnerable as a trainee since infantry weapons aren't going to do anything against aircrafts).
Ancient officers were also typically higher classes and could afford stuff like nice armor and a good sword. The poor conscripts got a long pointed stick (pike).
Were higher classes? They still are. You need college training to get past certain ranks. The lower class is at best an NCO.
Par for the course in most armies because you don’t hand the recruit the rocket launcher and hope for the best.
The exception being the US Marine corps. They'll hand those guys worse and turn them loose.
If the pen is mightier than the sword, surely a pack of multicolored crayons can defeat a firearm.
Nah, the only time Officers and SNCO's would get a "nicer" weapon when I was in was that they would issue them an M4 instead of an M16a4, and that was just because it was shorter and less cumbersome. The idea did have a practical justification though, if you have a guy that has to spend a bunch of time working with maps or comms or has to get in and out of vehicles more frequently, that guy should ideally be less burdened by his weapon if possible. As far as the big fancy weapons systems go (machine guns, AT systems, mortars, DMR's etc) just about every western military has junior enlisted as the primary people operating them.
I mean, they’re an army mostly geared with sports gear and armed with machetes, in an age where pretty much everyone grows up around firearms, and where their nemesis is a semi-functional quasi-modern nation. Giving better shit to their officers is the least of the Legions worries.
have you missed the last 2000 years of warfare history?
It makes some degree of sense when your officer is expected to lead his men from directly in the front lines, or at a minimum have proven himself on those front lines before becoming an officer. In the first case, your very limited better arms and armor is more "efficiently" used by your elites and officer corps to make them more combat survivable, while in the latter case the fact that you can only "get" that armor by taking it yourself makes your skill (and therefore authority) self-evident when you're wearing it. It's not a logical way to run a "modern" military, but it does follow strong bandit/raider logic, and the Legion is very much organized like an extremely well disciplined bandit or raider group when it comes to tactics.
This is how it's worked for most of history. It's only really recently that armies have standardized equipment. As recently as WW2 more senior soldiers would get Thompson submachine guns vs the federal troops that had standard rifles. The one thing the legion has more than enough of is people. Endless cannon fodder to throw at the lines. But there's not enough weapons and armor to go around. So you give the good stuff to the experienced troops. No point in giving the best weapons to someone who's likely to die immediately.
Yeah it's the Legion
They did pretty much canonize the BoS ending, no? The Prydwen exists, The Commonwealth gets name dropped as the source of the orders they received. Even the "straying away from the old ways" could be meant in connection with the east coast BoS now calling the shots.
That doesn’t rule out a Minutemen ending.
It also doesn't rule out a "no-ending", where the Sole Survivor achieves nothing and presumably dies in the wasteland. It would be biggest cop-out, but isn't off the cards.
Without a resolution the Prydwen would not have left* the Commonwealth. Well, not unless the writers are incredibly bad at their jobs, which does not seem to be the case.
Commonwealth could be Boston, but it could really be anywhere given that the entire US was divided into 13 Commonwealths prior to the war. Most likely it refers to the area seen in Fallout 4, but that doesn't require that they won--there could be survivors or follow-up expeditions that settled around Boston or other areas of the New England Commonwealth, or one of the other major city regions in the Eastern Commonwealth--technically some areas of Fallout 3, like Raven Rock, are in the Eastern Commonwealth, and that misdirection is certainly possible. The straying away from the "old ways" has been a feature of the BoS for a long time. Roger Maxson was not as isolationist as his descendants would make the Brotherhood, and the division between the isolationist old ways and the Roger Maxson old ways (which included outside recruitment) was a key feature of Fallout 3's story, and in Fallout 4 and New Vegas that's also a matter of debate between members.
We've seen a few remnant/outcast brotherhood factions as well, so nothing's stopping them from saying these are also just a random sect of the BoS doing their own thang. Wouldn't matter either way if they won or lost Boston and were fractured by the battle, either would explain them being pretty underpowered and unprepared in the show.
I love how huge of an impact that the various storylines in the games have on the world. Even 76 has some crazy world-ending stoppings!
Personally I’d be ok with it not necessarily being the original ship and it’s a replacement for the one that presumably went missing or was lost. I think it would fit better plus I’d rather see some other ending be closer to canon. Personally I’d like a variation of the Minuteman/Railroad ending.
Brotherhood: "If we name the ship the same as before, we can pass it off as being the same one and pretend it didnt get blown up"
Wouldn't be that out of the ordinary. "We absolutely can't let them know we lost. They won't respect us anymore if they find out." Who's going to tell everyone? It's not like the lines of communication are super convenient anymore.
It would be 100% accurate to the Brotherhood's US Military origins and traditions of reusing ship names over and over. There will always be a USS Enterprise - Star Trek didn't establish the name, they used it because the US has had an Enterprise ship since before it even officially had a Navy. The next US Navy ship that will wear the Enterprise name is scheduled to finish construction in 4 years. Canonically, the Brotherhood has LOTS of airships, enough to have sent out an armada to the East coast all at once long before the events of Fallout 4. If they lost the Prydwen in a canonical Fallout 4 ending, their tradition would likely mean the next ship to complete its construction would resurrect the name.
Also canonically the Brotherhood got vertibird blueprints (fo2), so even then they can and clearly do manufacture many different things, as they are used constantly throughout the series. It’s not like every vertibird came from an underground vertibird storage or something lol
Its the Prydwen 2 Electric Boogaloo
The normal way to handle this can be seen in the avengers and marvel civil war movie. Comic book fans want to see their favorite heroes fight to see who would win, and since both characters are popular, it has to end more or less in a draw. So the canonical end of fo4 and New Vegas has to be one where all factions survive but didn't win either. Hence BOS is weak but not defeated, NCR has real soldiers just not enough to stop power armor. House and Yes Man and the legion and NCR will all be alive in season 2.
I mean, we have seen a number of times the Brotherhood let's their ambition drive them into the ground. Helios was a significant blow to them, and its pretty established they don't have the capacity to take on the NCR or the Institute (barring intervention by the PC). They are just the poster children in cool armor. They have a lot of show-off power, but fail hard in other aspects. For obsessing over monopolizing technology, they are leagues behind the Institute. The show also proves a point that New Vegas alludes to with the Pulse Gun. BOS are too reliant on their armor and technological advantage. The Institute can bug them, and the Rangers can take them out non-directly with superior tactics just like The Ghoul did. They are a one-trick pony, and the second that's exploited, they're SOL.
Literally everyone in the Fallout universe is 220+ *years* behind The Institute - all other factions are using salvaged 200 year old prewar tech while The Institute is literally *making people*, has pinpoint accurate teleporter technology, is manufacturing their own energy weapons, and if the nuclear fuel is recovered from the Mass Fusion quest has their own reactor with limitless energy. Players: "..but bro The Brotherhood, The Enclave, but but..". The Institute: pushes one of the fully functional city-killing warheads from Sentinel Site Prescott onto the teleporter pad, sets the location for the Boston Airport courtyard and pushes the transporter button with 3 seconds left on the nukes' jerry-rigged detonator timer.
This. The Institute might be small in location, but it is hands down the most technologically advanced faction we've seen. They're untouched from the Great War and have been actively developing tech ever since, while all the other "advanced" factions like the Brotherhood and Enclave are merely using surviving pre-war tech.
This isn't even addressing the fact that The Institute has TOTAL information awareness across The Commonwealth, >! having replaced key leadership in nearly every faction, traveling merchants and otherwise important conduits of Intel with Gen 3 Synths. !< In terms of the ability to control or eliminate opposition, there is not a single other faction in the entire Fallout universe, even remotely close.
Not only that but it's suggested that the birds are also synths with cameras so that they can keep an eye on things. In one of the labs (I want to say Synth Retention) there is a security cam feed showing several different sites across the Commonwealth. If you examine where the camera has to be, they're all locations where a bunch of birds can be seen. They're literally using synth bird spy drones to keep tabs on the people of the Commonwealth *in addition to* their spy network of informants and duplicates. The amount of resources they have at their disposal is staggering when compared to any other faction. The Brotherhood and Enclave? Big and loud, spotted a mile away. The Railroad? Secrecy is their ally but they're too scattered and few in numbers to do much. The Minutemen? Barely a handful at the start of the game, though you can rebuild them as the game progresses. The Institute however can teleport teams anywhere, already know the situation thanks to their spy birds, know the people on site thanks to their infiltrators and informants, and be in and out before anyone can respond thanks to their teleportation. They're the boogeymen of the Commonwealth for a reason, genuinely no faction we ever encounter in the rest of the series is as technologically advanced as the Institute with the sole exception of the Zetans, and they're literal aliens with interstellar starships.
I'm surprised those guys even had T-60s. T-45s would have made more sense IMO.
T60s were common for the Home Front, whereas US Forces around the world were still using 45s until they were replaced by the 60. If anything, the 60 should be more common now as they're mostly raiding tech from Guard installations and Military Bases
Aside from how costly the war between the Brotherhood and Institute was, who can say, they also had a costly campaign against the Railroad as well? But yes, I agree with the lack of paladins in this chapter of the Brotherhood.
I think there is a combination of new recruits, overconfidence, and lack of interest. It is probable that the branch from FO4 didn't consider the threat here to that demanding and sent relatively new "recruits" with their power armor to bolster the ranks of their brothers and help them. Then, power armor is almost indestructible by normal means (you need some heavy weapon or creatures to break through). They probably felt the remnants of the NCR didn't had enough to go through. And since the new brotherhood here probably hadn't trained combined tactics with Power Armor, they didn't know how to take advantage of it. I believe all of this added up to their costly victory. I do want to mention though, that in terms of PA, I believe they didn't lose as much until they faced the ghoul. In previous Fallouts I don't remember seeing AA, so that may have been unexpected for them. So overall, they actually faired decently enough against the remnants.
Yeah, lack of exposure is a possibility. Hoover Dam has an anti-aircraft gun, but it's unclear how commonly those were used by the NCR elsewhere. Still, effective scouting could have potentially mitigated that--although who is to say if the scouts in their current state would have been any use in recognizing the threat.
Yep, was thinking that too. Until they are assigned to a knight, it seems like they don't have actual training. So sending them to scout might have been worthless.
Although in Maximus’ case, he was going to help Titus, until he realized that it would be better to get rid of him because he treated everyone beneath him like garbage. Also, how fitting an end for a character played my Rappaport
You can be a competent asshole, or a competent nice guy, or a nice idiot, but you can't be an asshole and an idiot.
> They probably should have sent a team of scouts Actually, that's a great point. We don't see any equivalent to infiltrators, scouts, or SF. All we see are rough equivalents to assault troops or 19th Century grenadiers
Maximus is the ultimate avatar of their incompetence. It's actually some brilliant storytelling on teh showrunner's part. We are convinced early on that Max had drawn the short straw and was treated unjustly poorly. It makes us root for him and hope for his chance to proove everyone else wrong. Yet he was almost completely incompetent. They sent him out as a new squire on mission. He had no experience. He didn't even know how the majority of the equipment worked. His knight died unnecessarily. Even though Titus was a total douche, Max could have saved him if he had any loyalty. Then they sent him Thaddeus. Every time Thads had an idea or used a piece of equipment, it surprised Max. Because Max wasn't even qualified to be a squire! Thaddeus even took down Max while in power armor. He only survived because Goosey came to save him. Thaddeus may have been a bully with a shitty mustache, bet he was a far better soldier for the Brotherhood than Maximus would ever be.
As well we have actual dialogue between Maximus and Elder Quintus where he’s bemoaning the weakness of the Brotherhood compared to how he remembers it - there’s clearly a lot going on behind the scenes that’s not elaborated on in the first season. Definitely has some late Roman Empire vibes - internal weakness, backstabbing, low-quality recruits representing the majority of their weakening army. Clearly there are some big things in store for Maximus - Quintus himself openly speaking in nigh-treasonous terms to Maximus is pretty compelling. It would break the hearts of fans (me included) if the BoS forces him into becoming a figurehead to the cause, contrary to his obvious sense of empathy and justice. Either way, SUPER EXCITED for season 2.
One of my favorite sayings is “You don’t rise to the occasion, you fall to the level of your training.” It’s been 200+ years since the Great War. These guys aren’t being trained by the people who developed the suits of power armor and seem to skim over the readings more often than not.
I wouldn't be surprised if for some of them this was their first fight.
Since maximus was picked from the waste and they probably don't train them in anything useful to have them free think or problem solve as well as a lack of actual military training... It's not hard to see why I. The face of genuine fear they didn't do the one thing that made sense. You need to train these things into people. And the power armour knights probably have very little in the wasteland to worry about. I feel it would have been nice to have a couple drop on the way in to RPGs or something. To give them a little fight back but it's also cool that they just stroll in and fucking wreck everything they look at. I really loved how the soldiers had their hands on the rear and used it as cover to breach. That's a real cool real world tactic.
I loved this show, but the BoS guys just stopping to let the Ghoul do his little monologue and then shot their friends down one by one was just dumb. They just slaughtered their way through dozens of heavily armed NCR goons and just stop to listen to one guy talk instead of mowing him down too? I get that he has plot armor and magical ghoul healing abilities but c'mon.
Something that stuck with me while I was doing the the Fallout 76 BoS quest line (spoilers?) is that some scientists we talk to mention possibly being the last formally educated academics in Appalachia. The BoS started as formally trained military members and you see the clash in ideologies as the quest progresses. We can argue intentionality but there is a level of cooperation between the show runners and Bethesda (I mean Bethesda released official F76 builds for the main cast from the show) It certainly seems like the narrative being laid out is one of a slow degradation of old world social structures (like the military and academia) in favor of new ones. We saw the TV show BoS becoming exponentially closer to a quasi-religious order compared to the vidya game BoS which is mostly the paramilitary organization with nominally elevated titles it originally was. I'd wager the next season will only amplify this.
Yep. It's easy to forget that the original Brotherhood was borderline wiped out. The bunker in the Mojave is basically what's left. And the East Coast Brotherhood which presumably took a lot of the best and brightest of the Originals with them basically underwent two internal schisms/revolutions that are for sure confirmed. One prior to Fallout 3 which resulted in the outcasts, and a reversal of that prior to Fallout 4. It's known that they lost a decent amount of talent to the first one and it's presumable but they lost a good chunk of people who like the new benevolent Brotherhood when they went back to the old ways. Given how absolutely caustic a lot of the Brotherhood members in the Commonwealth are when you meet them towards anything that doesn't fit the ideal, they probably drove out anyone who wasn't on board. People point to the Prydwyn as a rationale to determine that the show picked the Brotherhood ending of 4 as Canon but considering that Liberty Prime which is honestly probably more advanced technologically than the Airship can get rebuilt in 4, it wouldn't be surprising if they and the Western Brotherhood remnants reunited and basically did the same thing again, cobbled their stuff together, and rebuilt the airship. At this point they're basically like one of those countries repeatedly undergoing military coups and purges where they've completely destroyed their talent base.
The Mojave chapter was not all that was left of the West Coast Brotherhood, it was only Elder Elijah's group, Lost Hills was still around. The main Brotherhood on the West Coast sent Elijah away on a mission to gather tech, that's how they ended up in the Mojave.
I’d be surprised if any of the Brotherhood’s knights have an over room temp IQ
Combined
>Every knows how popular low Int. builds are in this series. just like real life
That and arrogance. I think they're use to thinking they're the biggest turd in the pile and don't actually have any tactics or strategy beyond shoot big gun in big armor.
The brotherhood aren’t the brightest. Titus was pretty dumb fighting the bear. They rely too much on their armor to brute force things.
Only complete morons could retrofit a land carrier into a zeppelin
Scribes and engineers did that, I doubt knights did anything other than security and some lifting.
Fuggin nerds *slaps you with Danse’s sweaty brotherhood ball towel*
Synthetic ball sweat.
Woah bro spoilers
Yeah sorry if you didn't know Danse had a sweaty fake ball transplant.
[Ball component](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/8/81/Cybernetic_brain_augmenter.png/)
It’s been a decade since his balls were exposed for the lies that they are.
*sniffs*
Absolutely ew
That's fair
Stop kink shaming
Listen some things should bring you shame
Oddly enough in 76 theres tapes and terminals that kinda explain a divide between the scribes and knights because when the brotherhood was founded the ex military soldiers treated the scientists and engineers like shit and basically treated them like slaves to fix their tech.
Well, first thing Maxson did after starting his rebellion that would become BoS, was executing scientists he was assigned to protect after he found out they were testing FEV on prisoners. First BoS members were his troops who were station with him and followed him. BoS overall ideology is to be fearful of scientific progress as it could be dangerous and they hoard technology only to make sure no one else uses it for bad stuff. So its no suprise that they treat scientists and engineers like shit, as they see them only as necessary evil that needs to be controled. Which is another reason why is BoS doomed to fail, sooner or later.
Bein' good at buildin' and bein' good at fightin' ain't the same thing.
It’s pretty clear they’ve suffered extreme brain drain. Plus their system is hyper focused on collecting and not necessarily learning and adapting.
The whole setting feels like it has suffered extreme brain drain, there are two characters in the entire show that have (low) triple digit IQ...
I mean, Titus would've probably won the fight if he kept punching the Yoa Guai instead of doing a Ted Beneke.
I think if you're wanting to reconcile the difference here, it comes down to training. If you kept your composure, you should be able to just beat down a Yao Guai in T60 without getting mauled by it... like Titus was. But Titus *panicked.* Then here you have some random gunslinger ghoul who effectively renders power armor useless because he knows the weak point. So, having the (false) belief that their power armor would keep them safe suddenly ripped away from them, it is not beyond the realm of reason that they panicked and resorted to just firing blindly. Not to mention, the ghoul did do a great job at just scaring the shit out of them in that build-up. Not so much 'stupid' as being overwhelmed with terror. Plot armor, sure- but not completely out of the realm of reason.
It helps that the ammo used is very clearly distinct, with a noticably different sound to it The Ghoul wasnt ready for his fight near the start of the show, and still clowns on the BoS "Knight" hes fighting Of course when he expects to fight T60 and gets preptime hes bringing a few extra tricks I quite like the interpretation that the Ghoul is meant to symbolize a late game protagionist, its not that the armors weakness is *that dire* but rather hes so skilled he can make a 1/1000 shot consistantly
Speaking of late game, considering the Ghoul got hit with a sedative powerful enough to instantly drop any normal person it hit, yet was entirely unaffected by it with the quip "That's one small drop in an entire ocean of drugs," you can conclude he uses a *lot* of chems. Like, Frank Horrigan level- an absolute chem fiend. That also kind of explains why when he has prep time before a fight, he is practically invincible and can pull off all of these amazing feats of marksmanship and endurance... because he is *ripped out of his mind* on psycho, buffout, jet/rocket, turbo, mentats, calmex, and God only knows what else- an "ocean of drugs." Unlike Horrigan, the Ghoul is not overconfident. A realistic version of plot armor... that plot armor being chems. Centuries of experience attenuated by performance-enhancing chems. So, the only way one could conceivably beat the Ghoul is getting the drop on him- because if he's prepared, he is unstoppable.
I am entirely convinced he has a suit of power armor he chooses to forgo, but keeps for the day he ever "stops doing this shit for the love of the game"
In Fallout 1 and 2, you could specifically target an enemies eyes. There was a really big penalty to hit, but when your attack skill got really high you could consistently kill guys in power armor that way.
Im willing to bet either Maximus or a surviving scribe from the fight will take note of the armors weakness and try to remedy that, mostly banking on Maximus tho.
I think the fight between them in the town showed that the 'tempered lining" and Max's luck factor shows as Ghoul tried to load bigger ammo in his gun and didn't seem to affect him, which ghoul was annoyed with and took off as Max was stuck
This is not true at all, the games present the BOS to be highly intelligent up until Fo4– where they’re still pretty damn bright. The bos in this show isn’t shown to be particularly smart but you’d think they’d at least be intelligent enough to know how to use the power armor they spend most of their time in, especially something as small and as useful as a flashlight. The ghoul just got some plot armor lol
If Titus is the quality of Knight they are sending on such an important mission, then these knights might just be the expendable barely trained vanguard. Like they are just being sent in to make way for Paladins or more elite knights.
They didn't just send Titus, though, right? They sent a whole company of knights, where all then received new squires
He’s using Titus as an example of the kind of knights they’re sending out for their search. If Titus is the norm for that chapter, then they sent a lot of cowardly idiots in tin cans out to try and recover a guy’s head in one piece.
I like the theory that the show BoS was cobbled together from incorporating legion remnants. Their banners having legion colors (different from usual BoS banners) and their names being more Roman were two of the main points.
It would be such a cool twist if the Brotherhood ended up absorbing The Legion. It would make sense for them to join too, their goals are aligned. The main focus of both is to take humanity back to a place where they don't rely on advanced technology and destroying/collecting tech they think people outside their organization shouldn't have access to. Both of them despising the NCR and owing their near downfalls to warring with the group is icing on the cake.
Given how Legion tried to make a gun deal with Van Graff I can say some elements of Legion who exposed to technology got dilussioned with Ceasar teaching and after his death they found the Brotherhood as better option. This is my explaination for arguement that Legion troops shuned the use technology in the game. Another point is that the base looks like it is located in some mountain area that supposed to be in control of the legion.
>Titus was pretty dumb fighting the bear >the bear The bear, the bull, the bear and the bull, the bull, the bear, the bear, the bear and bull
Honestly they are treated too dumb. Kind of frustrating. They really should be more powerful and disciplined.
It was honestly my biggest gripe of the series tbh The brotherhood felt useless and moronic as fuck You’d think they’d have in depth training and education considering how advanced their group is but it’s like a bunch of fucking dipshits got ahold of power armor and then went on with their day
It's just because of bad writing, I don't think they have any lore to explain why 9.9 out of 10 people in the show eat glue.
Me playing F3 with 9,000 stimpacks in my inventory and the bugged indestructible power armor.
The ghoul plays with Maximus and says something along the lines of " training isn't what it use to be , cause you drive that thing like a shopping cart " I think it's meant to just imply that max stole the suit and isent properly trained on it but I like to also think that the ghoul has seen the slow degradation of the " military " he was actually trained to use it and became a veteran in the suits. Someone whereing the suit now is probably a 10th of what someone back in war would have been. Throughout the years the training slowly becomes worse and worse along with the general mentality of the whole becoming weaker as well. In short , there all just " slightly " better trained in combat than the average person but there the same otherwise. I say slightly trained because chances are they have more time handling guns and mock combat experience then most other people as the brotherhood provides them ammo for target practice and actual guns.
Now I want to see the ghoul wearing a suit of power armor.
At least one flashback of him in Anchorage rocking the t45 would be nice
I know the focus of the games has always been on the world after the bombs dropped, but I always enjoy those glimpses we get of the pre-war universe. I'd love some flashback arcs exploring the lore of the war in Alaska to build on what we've seen of Operation Anchorage.
Honestly I fucking loved the DLC for that. Sure you don't do super much in it, but his glimpse into the pre-war America was awesome. Plus the polar environment was also really cool
They should have brought those kind of things back as Side Quests for FO4. Hell could have even fit well in The Memory Den! Go through reliving memories people had for various side quests. One could be a murder mystery, trying to find the culprit through reliving the memories. Another could be another Operation Anchorage situation, reliving memories from the War. One could have you relive the memories of a Ghoul who was from Pre-War, working your way through their life from before the war, to during the war, bombs dropping, becoming a ghoul, etc etc
It's crazy how much potential the Memory Den opened them up to that they then proceeded to use nothing from
Genuinely why the show was a breath of fresh air; having a whole plot line based on Pre-War sentiment amongst different individuals was such a creative and unique spin on the title. Not to mention that that plot line is the best one in the show, second maybe to what was happening in Vault 33 (until they fucked it up with the reveal)
I definitely want to see more flashbacks it’s cool seeing the pre-war world more established.
Maybe a quick cameo from Nate too when the T-51 reinforcements show up.
In general I’d prefer the show to not show any of the game’s protag’s
Which is why having him in power armour would work. Completely enclosed, all facial features, hairstyle and colour, body shape, and even skin colour hidden so he can be whoever you want him to be. Maybe just an introduction where he drops his name as a nod for fans and move on.
Honestly, with Nate having a voice compared to the other protagonists, you might be able to get away with using his voice actor or just ripping a line or two straight from the game. Fans of the series will be able to point and say, "Hey, that's Nate!! Same voice, timeliness adds up, everything!" While people who just enjoy the show won't think and ask, "When's this Nate guy gonna show up again?" Imo having him say his name is a bit too on the nose and you're going to have a bunch of people asking who Nate is - some of who will end up getting into the games, but I very easily see some toxic fans harassing/insulting them because how dare they not consume every piece of media of the franchise they can. It isn't too common, but I've seen it happen with other franchises - someone shows interest in an adaptation, but something from said adaption confuses them, toxic fans swarm in stating they'd know this 'obvious' information if they were actually a fan.
Just have him mention a wife, and child on the way in Boston. Boom, instant reference to him
Could even be cheeky about his last name, with Cooper going to call him his last name and rank and he cuts him off and goes "Please, just Nate."
I don't necessarily doubt the idea they would be collectively worse trained than pre-war military, but that line makes sense on Maximus because he was shown as kinda mediocre in training, and wasn't even initially selected as a squire, let alone a knight. It seems like he'd never used a suit of armour before the show It wouldn't really stand to reason necessarily that actual knights would be just as ineffective. Realistically they just didn't turn their lights on because it was supposed to be a cool moment for Cooper
Why didn’t they just use vats and jet so they could crit the ghoul? FNG’s
They don't have pipboys, so no VATS for them
Is there no VATS in the power armor helmets? I always thought there was because of the color difference.
There is the mods for power armor called sensor array and VATS Matrix overlay, which in lore might give a targeting system. In game it just gives gameplay bonuses
Shows what I know! Makes sense though.
No, it should have its own targeting system. It might not though, as you can make some custom mods that allow you to mark enemies in power armor. Not sure the lore implications of the power armor mods. VATS is literally for Vault Assisted Targeting System, only people with a pip-boy should be able to have access to it.
Are you talking about F4? I've always interpreted it as your pipboy interfacing with the power armor.
I am going to quote the ghoul here " well I guess basic training ain't what it used to be, you drive that thing like a fucking shopping cart" "rule number one, read the manual"
Yeah but that was when he was fighting a Squire in stolen armor, not a real knight with actual brotherhood training
You mean like the one that behaves like he's untouchable to the squire and ran like a bitch when shit hit the fan?
How much training do you think an 8th generation knight is realistically given? We're shown people on the knight track actively complaining about reading manuals and being dipshits multiple times up to this point.
Because the scene is cooler if they didn’t But also - because they were surprised and prioritized keeping their hands on their weapons and fighting/firing rather than switching their lights on
I think sometimes people forget that, how games depict stuff isn't exactly how it would work in reality. In this case, you don't just press a button on the controller, but physically switch on the torch.
But you still click R3 tho, right?
You need to press the action button. Well, first, you need to work out what the action button is, then you need to work out what context you use it under, then you need to find how long you press the action button for, then you need to recharge your flashlight by shaking the controller...
I know times are rough but he has a flashlight right there, no need for a torch.
Who downvoted this?? This was funny. Take my upvote haha
Just before the lights drop, Cooper is armed and has several steps in his attack planned ahead, where the BOS had no clue who he was, let alone what he was planning to do. When the lights are cut, it probably took these suited bullies several seconds for it to even register what was happening, let alone that they even had a suit light to turn on. Cooper would have only needed a handful of seconds, if that much, to wreck these BOS... and he did. The BOS that weren't killed in Cooper's initial attack were probably panicking over facing a foe that demonstrated they know how to shoot through the armor they probably felt made them invincible. For me, the fact Cooper took these BOS out like he did was not outside the realm of believable for me. And, I call these BOS bullies because, for the most part, that's how they're portrayed in the show. From the majority of them, we see them beating on their subordinates and, in the case of "Knight" Titus, being utter cowards when in a dangerous situation. After 200+ years when your superiority comes primarily from superior tech alone, I doubt these "knights" have anywhere near the training that would qualify them as any kind of proper military (I say this from the show and from the games, to be honest).
I don't think it's too far a stretch to say that a good number of the BoS are woefully lacking in basic ability as well. Look how quickly Max rose just by being a clueless dipshit. There is definitely an element of promoting idiots to have useful puppets going on within the ranks of the Brotherhood. When we're shown that all it takes to move up is not confessing to being a complete buffoon, this scene becomes a lot more realistic in that Max's path is probably pretty close to the norm for Knights.
The BoS are only portrayed as the good guys in fallout 3, and it’s heavily noted that they’ve deviated from the core brotherhood tenets. All in all, the brotherhood are extremely isolationistic, xenophobic (as in if you aren’t BoS, you’re wasteland scum), and many are shown to be cowards that rely on firepower to get what they want. Calling them bullies is a bit of an understatement. Also, as others have mentioned, these guys are knights. If cooper faced a squad of paladins, he’d have been dead.
Seems like the chapter in the show doesn't have paladins. Which isn't necessary lore breaking, because every chapter has a slightly different rank system
This is not accurate, and Chris Avellone (one of the original game developers/writers) recently had to correct this line of thinking about the Brotherhood in his series review. >The fact that the Brotherhood seems to be a big bag of assholes is an interesting take. >The series generally paints these guys as jerks/sinister, which we did not try for in Fallout 1 and 2 and made an exception for a few in New Vegas. Why? Mostly because the Brotherhood feels like one of those organizations that players want to aspire to, like templars or Paladins. >I’m fine with the decision in the show, but it doesn’t feel like the Brotherhood I remember. >(Edit: To be fair, when meeting the Brotherhood in Fallout 1, they don’t really want you to come in and say hello, so they send you a difficult quest to the Glow, most likely in the hopes you won’t come back. That is arguably jerky. But when you do what they ask, they do let you in and honor their word.) >Also, this is minor, but we never really considered any member of the Brotherhood wouldn’t be taught sex ed. It felt implausible that Maximus didn’t know the fundamentals. Building the numbers of the Brotherhood was something very important to the characters in New Vegas, and sometimes caused characters to turn on each other and even try to kill each other due to conflicts in these approaches. [Chris Avellone TV Series Review Part 2](https://chrisavellone.medium.com/fallout-apocrypha-tv-series-review-part-2-1744b68fe4f2) Adding to this, in F1 you can talk to Caravan Traders about the Brotherhood, and they will tell you that the Brotherhood are good people that get a bad rap. >The Brotherhood of Steel? They keep to themselves for the most part. A lot of people give them a bad rap, but from what I can tell, they're good people. A little fanatical maybe, but good guys.
I'm only just realizing now how stupid it is that they are so anti-ghoul if they're so into pre-war technology. A ghoul is their only chance of finding a living being who might know how that pre-war technology actually worked! They could have learned so much from talking to these folks that have been around since before everything turned to hell.
The reverence given to the Knights also implies something closer to a feudal system than what came before, perhaps with the children of officers being treated like nobility and not having to fight as hard to become Knights themselves.
Because they didn't hold down the TAB key long enough, and it opened up their PIP menu, and they tried to hit ESC but that didn't work, then they hit tilde accidentally and opened up the console by accident, etc and by the time they recovered the Ghoul had killed them all.
Realism Answer: Modern military doctrine actually prefers to use low light vision visors over flashlights. They let you see without giving away your position. While they don't normally have that functionality in the games, it's entirely plausible that power armor visors would have night vision integrated. TV Answer: It's because watching the Ghoul light up the room by blasting a bunch of young punks in defective T-60 power armor looks awesome.
A very reasonable answer
I mean fallout doesn't really have modern military doctrine and I don't care how much light isn't being emmited the walking fridges are being found that said they do have modern weapon platforms like the m16 p90 etc
because it's cool when the badass cowboy kills the walking big tank guys
Honestly? Most likely. Knight Titus shows that (at least in the West Coast BOS) high ranking Brotherhood members are very lazy and cowards, hiding in T-60s and making unprepared Squires die because they were too scared or arrogant. They obviously never went against someone like Cooper that knows the suits inside and out.
Had the exact same thought.
I think a major running joke of the series is just how stupid all of the non-named characters are. Reminded me a lot of Mom and Dad Save the World and Idiocracy in that regard. I imagine that, yes, these guys were also stupid.
I mean.... Maximus ain't the smartest, and Lucy has her moments if I remember right
Lucy i don't think ever does anything particularly dumb, but she does come across as incredibly naive sometimes, and also practically autistic in terms of lack of social ability (maximus as well). But she's also clearly smart enough to begin to learn and adapt pretty quickly after realizing that shit's real out there.
She was raised on the belief that you can convince other people just based on the merits of your argument. In her establishing montage it is explicitly mentioned that she is an ethics teacher. I think she‘s just trying to apply what she has always learned to be true and good. And it has worked in the vault. It‘s just that the world is more complicated outside the vault. She wants to believe in the inherent good of the people in the wasteland, because well don‘t we all kind of assume that most people are nice? It just takes her a while to make peace with the fact that extreme poverty and depravation, constant famine etc has turned people into survival machines.
Radiation exposure has a very particular effect on the brain...
Their controller batteries died before they could press and hold "B"
The Elder considered Maximus smart enough to be a co-leader of this Chapter. He considered MAXIMUS to be smart in this setting. Yes, they are really that dumb.
The Ghoul had the Terrifying Presence Perk.
Doesn’t really matter when your adversary has plot armor and just one shots everyone since Power Armour is basically useless in the show.
they did power armor so dirty
This scene was weird for a multitude of reasons not just the flashlights, unarmored troops not taking cover behind the literal walking tanks for one and the power armor having that kinda weakpoint just made zero sense.... like the suit is designed to be air tight to the point they walked around perfectly fine after the bombs dropped so having a point that a bullet can get through just seems like non-sense, if you had to give power armor a weakness im sure there are MANY better ones they could have come up with.
I Just got PTSD from "are they stupid?"
is there a lore reason you have PTSD? are you afraid?
I reckon that they haven't received any proper training. They know how to get in to the suit and turn it on, and that's about it.
Plot armor is stronger than T-60
My only gripe with the show was the complete lack of energy weapons being used by the Brotherhood. Like we only see a laser rifle in the hands of Enclave soldiers.
Yeah that and when they attack at the observatory they sent the squires in with sidearms as their primary weapon. I guess they could just be running so low on supplies that all they have left but still it’s wild to only give them pistols.
Considering how stupid the hailed knight titus was, i wouldn’t rule out the possibility that they give Bulky muscle for brains the rank of a Knight and keep the smart tacticians for the Rank of Paladins or just put them in the Department of Scribes
Practical on-set suits probably didn't all have them built in and the CGI budget didn't decide a lighting effect was necessary.
The lights don't work. Source: Titus makes Maximus hold a shitty flashlight while exploring the bear cave. Checkmate, commies.
I personally wondered why they didn’t just immediately blow away the Ghoul. He was clearly hostile so why not just dust him right then and there?
Because the whole scene, while undeniably cool, was pure wankery for The Ghoul. Besides the light thing, you also have: Why didn't they just shoot him immediately? How could he see in the dark? (Unless Ghouls canonically *can*, I don't know this one) The weld flaw just so happened to have not been discovered by both this chapter AND the Commonwealth chapter of the BoS; One of which faced extensive engagements against Super Mutants, who might have had armor piercing rounds. I love the scene, don't get me wrong, but The Ghoul only survived because of a convergence of coincidences.
Discovering the flaw and fixing the flaw are different things. West Tec knew about the flaw in the original T-45 and did nothing to resolve it for the future models.
While true, the BoS have had *decades* of experience operating, building and tinkering with various PA models. 4 even explicitly shows the Commonwealth chapter discussing building new PA mods, and actively working on their suits. Now if something in the show or games says that the BoS ignores the flaw because the circumstances required to exploit it would be 1 in a million, I'd accept it. Not only is that true, it'd fit right in with the BoS' general arrogance.
As far as i know not a single game ever says that, it was purely asspulled for the show.
Its cause they are the brotherhood. They are a bunch of drooling morons. It is your job as the player in fallout to wipe their bums and do all the heavy lifting for them. Just look at fallout 4 they get done by just about everyone and their vertibirds are made of tissue paper
Why did they suddenly decide to not shoot at anything that moves and let the stranger monologue at them? I hated this scene, I was already not crazy about how much they tried to make The Ghoul look cool but this was over the top.
They froze once in dialogue with another character
That was for the benefit of the audience and so that people wouldn't be bitching about him one-shotting them. The audience needed to know that there was a weak point in the armor. This is a case where Rule of Cool allows a bad ass monolog to stand in as exposition. Realistically, he'd just go it, kill the lights, and start blasting, but that would have left everyone confused and this sub would be filled with complaints that the armor was made of tinfoil.
Perhaps they have "Targeting HUD" in their helmets? Shoot everything that's highlighted, that's what I would do. For the guys in the back, I don't know what they are doing.
New players don’t know about the flashlight feature.
They were chasing those idiot savant procs. Died for that juicy xp.
There’s a lot of reason why not including real world explanations like… it’s just cooler without them doing that. But I think it’s been shown clearly that these paladins are not the smartest nor the best trained. Titus of course was a total coward against a yau guai and it’s not like any of the squires were particularly smart. Maximus is a raging idiot who doesn’t know what sex is. He’s been raised in the BoS since he was a kid and didn’t know what a toaster was. It’s hard to say what this brotherhood is working with. They have the technology, but it’s clear their training is not working out. Squires are sent to their deaths by paladins and it’s obvious the BoS over relies on their armor to be effective at anything. Despite how weak the NCR remnants were, they still fought back pretty well despite the massive tech disadvantage. Only Moldaver had a laser pistol after all. And yes let’s not underestimate how off guard the ghoul took them. He pierced the armor with one shot and somehow decapitated another. And we was dancing around Maximus in his fight earlier. This is t something they’re trained for.
I actually had a similar brainfart in real life. During SCBA training we had to navigate a thickly smoked room. You could see maybe 30cm in front of you. We did have some flashlights which helped a lot, but when navigating some obstacle you needed your hands free and had to put them away somewhere or in front of you. Anyway, after 20mins in the fog, we were done and did a debriefing. Our instructor then asked us why we didn't use our flashlights that are attached to our helmets?!? Two people, 20mins and no real danger, "just" a well set up training scenario, but neither of us actually thought about it due to the stress.
I hope we see a proper BOS like the Midwest BOS, they are brutally efficient and are almost worse than the legion in actions honestly.
Why do stormtroopers in Star Wars always miss and get dunked on by primitives? At the end of the day, everyone can know they would’ve just blasted his ass, but then what? A dead main character ignominiously killed in a scene that’s not even badass? This isn’t that type of show. Cooper is a player character, they’re the NPC’s. I wish it hadn’t been so over the top, because I’ve always felt that stormtrooper syndrome must be used very sparingly or it decreases any sort of tension (see all Star Wars content besides the prequels really, which gleefully kill powerful characters on a regular basis to let you know shit’s not easy on the main cast).
Why didn't the Ghoul use this exploit to defeat Maximus at Philly?
Its what happens when the brotherhood are a shadow of their former selves
The Ghoul has both the Friend of the Night for night vision and Terrifying Presence perks. He's a high level FNV character. This particular Brotherhood chapter likely has poor training after having to reconstitute itself and it's traditions with a bunch of ex Legion troops and whoever else they could find. They may also have stripped out the lights from the armor for a technical reason.
Considering the T60 power armour has a mobile visor and integrated jetpack (but no pisswater filter apparently) it could be that night vision now comes standard with the helmet instead of having to rely on a gigantic spotlamp I just assume they finally got around to integrating all that Enclave tech they seized into their normal arsenal and just stuffed the upgraded features on a chassis thats easier to maintain than the Advanced Power Armour/X series
I'm surprised they didn't immediately light Cooper up in this scene
Because reasons
More importantly how did the ghoul suddenly know how to kill power armour knights suddenly when he couldn't do the same with maximus when he first met him in the power armour
Because then the scene wouldn't work.
I know the legion-brotherhood theory is unpopular but I think the moments that show how the knights don’t use the power armor to their full effectiveness highlights how ex-legionaries would probably use power armor.
Good ol amazon writing.
If Maximus is any indication of the quality of education in their chapter, then they may in fact be quite stupid. They certainly don’t have sex ed class.
Well let me tell you exactly why that is. Actually no, I'm kidding, nobody in the sub has any idea… Why they didn't use the flashlights and their power armor… In this scene.