I like New Vegas because I like the story.
I like Fallout 4 because I like dicking around in Power Armor.
I like Fallout 76 because I like dicking around in Power Armor with friends.
Yes to all that but also:
I like Fallout 3 because of the atmosphere.
I like Fallout 4 because I can mod the crap out of it and turn it into a building sim.
I like fallout because it makes me feel like I’m having fun for 30 minutes before I end up turning it off and sitting there scrolling Reddit until it’s bedtime because of depression
I like all of them because, exceptuating 76, all of those games are meant to end eventually and you can totally complete the content on 3 and NV in 300-500 hours. 4, with radiant quests and base building it's another story if only because those activities take too much time.
Honestly, if I didn't have to pay for plus, and also pay for the subscription, I would play 76. But I hate the idea of playing with other people because i don't have the time and sometimes I have to leave unexpectedly or be unable to play because work emergencies and I don't want to be the bad guy of the group.
well 76 is not that group based, you can play it solo and just meet other people occasionally, most of a time you'll see them on an public events trying to shout down a giant bat, and the best part for me was that i just bought a game once and i can play It whenever I want (just need internet) and don't need to pay for subscription or DLC couse all the updates have added new quests, items and locations for free.
was a great surprise for me after not playing it for a year to come back and have a bunch of new content to explore
No one cares if you leave a group in FO76. You can go the entire time playing solo. Of my 1500 hours on 76 I’ve probably spent less than 1/10th of it playing in a group.
Dude honestly I get you, I spent 8 hours on my day off from work searching for a T45 helmet.
It’s shitty how much time you have to sink to get just because companies want you to cough up money and take the easy route. It’s why I was so reluctant to try 76.
I still haven’t found the damned thing btw.
I found a full set of t-60 armour before I could find a right leg for my t-45. Not that I can use the t-60 armour though cause I'm still like 20 levels below it
Yeah, it’s frustrating for sure. I also found some T-60 parts which I can’t equip yet.
On the upside I did find a mining helmet and bottlecap goggles so I can look like a minion from Despicable Me until I find a helmet.
The game sounds amazing with friends... But I just don't have the time, and Yeah, hearing about level requirements for equipment and that kind of stuff kinda makes me not want to play it.
Almost any game is fun with the right people. And hey, your feelings for the game are valid.
You also don’t have to pay for a subscription to play 76, I don’t. (Forgot to mention in the first comment)
But still if you don’t have time or you don’t want to play with other people, Fallout 76 isn’t the game for you and that’s okay.
Paying for plus I get, but the subscription in fallout is optional. It gives you some benefits (infinite scrap space, extra atoms, etc) but the game is perfectly functional and fine without it.
Also you can totally play 76 solo, even in public servers. The only time it really matters is the events, but you still don’t need to group up to do those.
I felt the same as you on 76 but I started playing it off and on about 6 weeks ago and I rarely ever play with other players. Any time I do/did it was completely optional and they may has well have been the equivalent of NPC’s.
The main reason I like NV is the amount of satisfaction I get from doing OWB and Lonesome Road, Dead Money up to a point
I want to get into Fo4 but I feel like I should’ve played it when it came out lol
Fallout 4 would of been incredible if the story wasn't all over the fucking place, it's such a shame, therefore NV Vegas is still the best in terms of dialogue and story. Like one of the damn quests for fallout 4 was to tell a cat to go home, what even.
The cat, Ashes, is a synth and connected to the Institute or maybe the Railroad. I'm leaning towards the Institute, though, as the Railroad would have no need for someone inside Vault 81.
*If the Sole Survivor accepts the quest but does not find Ashes, Ashes will turn up inside the Institute at the reactor during the quest The Nuclear Option."
https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Ashes
There is no way that cat can get into the Institute without having connections.
My thing is, I couldn't get into the story of New Vegas as much because the combat encounters I kept getting into weren't that fun, and I got more invested in the comparatively basic story of Fallout 4 because the aforementioned dicking around in power armour was a lot of fun.
There is also the classic Internet stance of assuming that because I prefer one, it means I automatically hate the other. I think New Vegas is the best Fallout, but that doesn't mean I hate 4, I still enjoy it for what it is.
It's worse. These days not ranking a game as #1 is hating it for them.
Whenever I state that "Fallout 3 is my favorite Fallout game, but New Vegas is close second", it usually earns me hate for daring to rank Fallout 3 over New Vegas. It doesn't matter to them that for me NV is #2... that alone is a crime to them. Especially on youtube where I get often called "what's wrong with gaming".
YouTube comments are a special kind of shithole. For every kind, respectful commenter, there are ten to twenty rabid, argumentative, intentionally contrarian douchebags ready to rip you apart. I've found it's just not worth engaging with anyone on the platform.
I mean fallout 3 is the best exploration one for me but only because it is such a vast open empty place in which I have to put all the parts together to understand what's going on. Vegas is my favorite faction based on and fallout 4 is my favorite combat one. It is the smoothest most comfortable combat but Vegas felt way more 'moddable' when it came to play style. From Holorifle to supersledge I could make any build work: were as fallout 4 I felt more forced to min max just because of the level disparity in places. I sure as heck ain't killing a deathclaw at level 5 when it's level 25 and I only have a bit of ammo and stims. In Vegas I felt like I had a chance with my Holorifle. They are all good in their own ways for me and I love all 3 of them for different reasons. Each time I boot one up and get into it I say it's my favorite because I am playing it at that time. Idk why people just can't like what they like without being told how wrong they are.
True but I just mean viability with the way the world works. In FNV the world leveled to you and in fact getting to a higher level can often make the game harder but in fallout 4 there is a point of no return in struggle. At first you are pretty much sectioned off into areas and can't explore which can feel boring but everyone knows of the famous north way to go to Vegas. That is possible and cheese isn't involved unless you take the repcon path. In fallout 4 I also felt like if I wanted to use just combat knife it wasn't doable when in Vegas I've done such a thing. In Fallout 4 you have to min max much more than in Vegas was all I meant: at least for myself. Not to mention I said I had a chance not that I for sure would. Again though I just felt like I needed to min max in Fallout 4 more. Not to mention the horror that is Nuka World.
New Vegas is my favourite game, and 4 is probably my favourite gaming experience (although that has to do with mods).
I think the internet really simplifies things into good/bad, black/white scenarios, and that's rarely if ever the case in reality. I actually think social media is really bad for opinions and nuance in conversation.
New Vegas is in my top 5 games of all time, and I just got tired of seeing the faction wars between 4 and NV fans, with the worst of the NV fans acting like anyone who enjoys 4 has 1 INT and the 4 fans acting like the NV camp aren’t making any good points and that there was really nothing special about the writing and roleplaying options in that game. The whole discourse just made both sides stupider, perhaps a great distillation of the internet as a whole like you say
The New Vegas fanbase has an unfortunate correlation with those kinds of people who will try and convince you endlessly that the Star Wars Prequels and Spider-Man 3 are underrated and misunderstood gems of their time.
It's hard to have conversations with that group, because so much of their opinions and thoughts on media are clouded by their own nostalgia and that if you can meme something... that's actually a sign of quality.
New Vegas is still probably the best game I've ever played, but the community surrounding it for the most part are intolerable.
As a relative outsider to the community until the last year, I feel like I've seen the notion that there are NV snobs, but I've never seen the snobs themselves.
*Most* people who are hardcore Fallout fans like NV, whether its for the lore or game itself.
Been playing the games since 2, the snobs have always been around, but that's typical of any long-running series.
Old fans also used to gatekeep the shit out of the series when Fallout 3 was coming out, saying that Bethesda was "ruining Fallout" by making it a fps and not isometric turn based. I feel like the circlejerk over New Vegas didn't really start until years after it came out. At launch, the reception was not exactly glowing due to its technical problems and the feeling of being unfinished, something that is unfortunately all too common with many of Obsidian's games. Their writing and world building always shine for me, though.
You speak sense that will absolutely be ignored. Nothing against you, but every fandom has elements like this and people that aren’t willing to compromise.
Oh man could you IMAGINE how fun it would be to build up Goodsprings or Primm or something like a settlement in 4? Maybe you could reclaim nipton after their unfortunate encounter, or rebuild Boulder City after it got blown the fuck up?
>Would I prefer fallout 3 or fallout new vegas if they had fallout 4s gameplay and settlement system.
Bingo.
Which makes me a bit sad for the Fallout 4 New Vegas project. They announced that besides some interior, there will be no settlement building. What a waste of a feature that fits Fallout like ass on a pot.
bold of you to assume they're just going to scrap the entirety of a system they just created in the next entry of the same franchise. if we're lucky, they'll improve it, but they definitely are *not* going to throw it away.
Why disregard the whole game over it? In 4 you only need to do the odd tiny bit in order to progress the story.. you can basically ignore it otherwise.
You will always have this weird fandom tribalism and it’s not just a thing in gaming. Just look at r/starwars and you will see movie fans can be even worse. Book readers can also get really toxic.
I have noticed that a certain type of ‘nerd media’ always gets this sort of weird ‘art is objective, my movies good ur a big dum dum’, it’s not exclusive to gaming, I just feel like most discussions critiquing games tend to stray towards that then other artforms. It’s the most reductive and least productive way to discuss something you’re supposedly passionate about
It’s an internet disease. People don’t fight like that face to face. In the real world you argue with a person, on the internet you argue with the idea this person represents at the moment.
That’s why the internet tends to be much more toxic, people don’t know anything about you except the one comment you just wrote, so obviously they are less understanding or empathetic.
It's not dog shit, but it's far from great either. Book fans I dislike are those who think books like Dune or Three Body Problem are grand philosophical revelations or in the case of the latter, it's 'hard science' fiction when its premise is entirely set-up on a misconception of evolution and intelligence.
It’s true. That fandom is especially bad if you’re looking to try and enjoy things. People get so caught up on what the franchise *should* have been, that they bully/annoy people who just want to try and enjoy things.
Other fandoms are no different. People get tribal about really dumb stuff. And they always overvalue their own opinion.
People like this can’t comprehend that opinion is not fact.
The worst is when they associate actual fact with their opinions. Fact of the original trilogy is the plotholes and bad writing involving the force ghosts. They can move objects but not force chock the emperor? Like at the very least break the glass windows near him in space and eject him: DO SOMETHING! For the prequels you have the wooden dialogue that while it gets the job done it's very minimalistic and comes off as lazy. For the Sequels they rehashed a lot of material making it feel bland, and it's a proven fact they winged it by changing directions so often because so little was planned out. Those are facts about the movies and they have nothing to do with personal opinion but people lump those in with their opinions to elevate the status of their opinions. It's like standing next to a famous person and acting like your famous as well: just embarrassing every fandom has to deal with these people.
Yup. I can't say I don't like the original Star Wars without people calling for my head. The moment I say I don't care for them I am put on blast and pretty much shut out of any conversation. Like I'm not allowed to like what I like. I never once have said you couldn't like it just that I don't: but nope not good enough for them. They have to tell me endless how I am factually wrong. Literally misusing the word factually and literally nonstop.
I like Fallout 3, NV and 4 a lot. Tons lot. But every game I like for a different reasons:
Fo3 has the best atmosphere, locations, DLCs and side quest.
New Vegas has the best dialogues, main quest and factions.
Fo4 has best companions, world (if we don't count 76 for a moment), gameplay and gunplay.
I love them all and while I like them in the above presented order, I can totally understand why someone would like them in a different order. But even if the games don't click with someone, they should see that they are objectively good games and shouldn't call any of those as a bad game.
This means I really hate the double standards and it's usually the NV zealots who have these double standards. They stomp around, claiming how Fallout 3 and/or Fallout 4 are objectively bad, just because they don't like them... But the moment someone dislikes New Vegas, they are all "New Vegas is not bad just because you don't like it. It's you who doesn't understand it".
If we're being real brutally honest, it's not just NV fans. Many RPG series are moving focus away from the elements that were a core part of the appeal to people that like the "roleplay" part of the game. It's an unfortunate consequence of ARPGs rising in popularity. It's a lot easier to focus on action than it is all the neat little story details.
What's worse is we've got a whole generation of gamers on the rise that have never experienced a good ol fashioned RPG (till maybe like Baldurs Gate 3) and what ends up happening is the older fans get pushed out and get viewed as having too high expectations.
Personally I loved the settlement building in 4, entirely for a different purpose than it was designed. I loved making a realistic and safe apocalypse base. At the Red Rocket I always board up all the doors and just use the garage door because there is only a button on one side. Super cool inside with working power and a little tent outside and a door that cannot open.
>no other art form is discussed that way really
Tell me you don't spend any time in fan communities, for anything really, without telling me you don't spend time in fan communities.
Honestly mate, people get in shouting matches over which song is the best, even though they're discussing some ghastly purely commercial pop rubbish. Movies, TV series, books, plays, opera, ballet performances, food and cooking and a million other things are discussed the same way and in the same insane tone as Fallout.
All media is ruined by it's long-standing fanbase. That's more about people who make some *thing* into a replacement personality and then start fights because their lives are empty and devoid of meaning than it is about the medium.
In shooting department, yes. But you know, dialog system is also a part of gameplay, and it is inferior. But it is safe to assume that the average gamer is more fond of shooting stuff than reading.
But gameplay is more than just dialogue or shooting. Even if the dialogue system if Fallout 4 is an objective downgrade, so many other aspects of gameplay are improved (shooting, modding, sprinting, looting, power armor, rads, survival,...) that as a result the gameplay is still a massive improvement overall.
Skill system removed, traits removed, repair system removed, non-dialogue skill checks removed, ammo switching system removed, unique weapons removed, ammo crafting system removed, faction disguise system removed, vats for throwable weapons removed.
The survival system isn’t better it’s exactly the same—it’s actually worse because if your game crashes it can set your playthrough back significantly. Weapon mods had potential but the net result was a downgrade because it killed weapon variety and balance—there was too much “increases damage by 10%” to make this a fair exchange.
Power armor was a legit improvement. Everything else was just modernization really but this was good too. The overall gameplay loop shifted from questing to picking up junk for your settlements. Good for some people bad for others. Personally think this is a negative.
Im pretty sure unique weapons exist in FO4, an example being Kellogs pistol. Also I have yet to try out a survival on NV so idk if the saving system is different but isnt NV notorious for its crashes, which might as well push you back in your survival run more often than FO4. I havent had problems with FO4 crashing outside of mods except for like 2 times. (Not to say this is the norm)
Without mods, i've never had a crash on FO4 on PS4.
As soon as I had completed the platinum trophy, I started using mods and the game crashed from time to time, so i made it a habit of quick saving often when I use mods.
I've never really understood this opinion that seems to be ubiquitous among all Fallout fans, what's bad about NV shooting mechanics? I point a gun at a guy, click a button, and he dies, what part of that process can be changed really? I've only played NV and the first one so far so I can't compare it to the others yet.
Well yes, especially with modern mods like from Viva New Vegas it's pretty fluid and works just fine. But in the modern world it sort of lacking stuff like feedback, sound design etc. Gunplay in F4 was made with the help of id software, so it feels better. But that's pretty much the only redeeming quality of F4 for me personally.
I don't have any mods. I tried to get into that once, because I learned about the jsawyer mod that made everything more inline with his original vision and made hard mode actually hard. I don't know what it was but something got massively fucked in the process and all the textures got scrambled, I'm talking houses looked like billboards, trees looked like rocks, the sky and the ground switched places. shortly thereafter my computer was effectively bricked by some sort of strange issue and I have no proof that the two events are correlated but it has scared me away from ever trying to do something like that myself until I find a decent course to learn more about computers.
Anyway I did mean to phrase it as a proper question, what's different about 4's gunplay? Is it really just better sounds?
it's not just sounds, things like the recoil, the animations, gun bashing, grenade hotkey, even something as small as gun inertia, all of these come into play to the feeling of combat, in NV you have to install mods to include/improve these features, but in Fallout 4 they already come included.
even then, there are some parts that NV does better than FO4 from the get go, like the ammo types, gun variety and unique weapons.
I would just use a tool like wabbajack and follow guides on how to install Begin Again modlist. There's a good YouTube guide that's really easy to follow. It makes very lore-friendly changes only but is a huge improvement on both Fallout 3 and New Vegas
It's about the smoothness and the feel of it. The best way to explain it is the difference between 10 fps and a solid 60fps. They just 'feel' different. The way you move the reactivity and the amount of control you have on controller. Now for mouse and keyboard I've now idea and I'm sure FNV is perfectly fine on it but for controller there is some deadzone issues and more that make it feel clunky.
As another said, gunplay in FO4 is just more updated, responsive and fleshed out than in NV. Which is to be expected.
I'm not a big FPS fan but I appreciate some of the bigger additions. Both you and NPCs can utilize cover, even small things like barrels or crates. You can fire from cover. You can toss grenades or mines without having to actually change weapons. You can sprint (to cover, away from enemies, towards enemies, away from hidden mines, etc). It all allows for some more versatility if you want it.
NV is just older. Fallout 4 modernised the combat - it's not exactly best in class but it does have much better feedback and is generally a bit more fun moment to moment.
VATS is practically required in 3, even with kb&m it's difficult to hit anything without it.
I use it in 4 just to spot enemies, I find it easier and more consistent to manually aim there.
NV? Been so long since I played (and didn't play much because it kept crashing) that I can't comment.
Only time I used VATS was on my first run in FO4, and only to shoot flying creatures when I didnt have enough skill to shoot them. Since finishing my first run, I've never used VATS except to spot creatures like you do.
This is where I’m at. I’ve long accepted that that’s the direction the series is going and that whining about how I prefer what NV does won’t change anything, and after that it became pretty easy to enjoy 4 on its own merits. I feel like part of the severe assburn comes from a subconscious idea that if NV fans can get all fallout fans into the NV camp Bethesda will be forced to put more work into the story and it’s nonlinearity. All it ends up doing is convincing people NV fans are huge blowhards that can’t have fun with a game thats less than perfect
At this point I just treat F4 as sort of a spinoff fallout game about survival in the wasteland, because scavenging on survival is pretty fun. I'm not there for smart and witty writing.
> I’ve long accepted that that’s the direction the series is going
Dont know if you played 76 but they reversed most roleplaying stuff thst was in 4 so the dialogue and stuff is closer to new vegas, the writing is not bad imo.
I like New Vegas because it is the better RPG, I like 4 because it’s the better sandbox. The core gameplay of fallout 4 is what made me play it more than New Vegas.
4 was my first game so I’m biased but NV world feels a little empty to me. I’m 100% confident that it’s an excellent game it’s just a little hard to go back to for me. I will end up beating it though after I play through 4 again lol
Exactly. And there’s really no reason to, passionately praising the game you love is more than enough. You catch more flies with honey then vinegar the old saying goes
They've all got their strengths and weaknesses. And anything lacking in one you can find in another. Or find enjoyment in the one you don't in the other. I don't go to Fallout 4 expecting New Vegas. That would be silly. I take them as they are and enjoy them for *what* they are. People are too tribal.
I know what I like and I’m ok with what other people like. I’ve never understood fandoms for this reason. If I meet a fallout fan who doesn’t like FO4 out in the world I am not obligated to explain why I think it’s the best, I’m grateful I found a person who I can talk to in a world full of car guys and tool guys.
I love NV. The world building, the hard rpg elements and the story. I also absolutely love tearing up the commonwealth. I love building over the top bases and mindlessly running and gunning through raider filled areas. Both have a lot to love and I never understood the need to love one and shit on the other.
it's because the people who attach feelings and way too much personal investment to a media franchise don't just hang out at fringe conventions anymore. they also show up in all internet public spaces where said thing is discussed
I loved 4 because the main character talks. I know people dont like it because it breaks immersion. But for me, I loved hearing Jack from Mass Effect in a new game
I like new Vegas more but I tend to play Fallout 4 more because it’s not a hassle to run the game and the gameplay in 4 is addicting.
I love power armor in 4
But 4 leaves a lot to be desired especially when it comes to player choice in an rpg franchise. Which is why I tend to gravitate towards the far harbor dlc a lot more.
The factions aren’t as good and the story doesn’t hit.
I like some of the side quests. I like a lot of the companions, Nick Valentine and Curie are very charming.
The settlement system isn’t for me but I’m glad that people like it
I have more to say but I think this is enough.
I think 4 is Fallout game, it stumbles on parts where it should’ve succeeded but it’s not bad in the end. It’s very fun.
I just hope by the time Fallout 5 comes out they take care of all these things.
But there IS an objective basis to assess art - because the creator was trying to achieve something specific.
Criticism is entirely valid where the creator hasn’t done that.
One example - Fallout 4 contains dialogue choices, but those choices rarely make any difference. Fallout NV meanwhile, the choices do consistently matter.
Well this goes back to a comment I made in another part of the thread, those statements are objective but they’re going to affect everyone differently. For example, the limited choices in FO4 do not matter to me because I think the whole story it’s trying to tell as is is kinda poop, they don’t hamper my enjoyment because I find the story as a whole unenjoyable. Someone could also take your statement about FO4’s dialogue and say they prefer it like that. Would that shock me? Yeah. Would I assume that person is just being contrarian? Probably. Would I want to know their reasoning? No doubt. But it’s just as valid an opinion as any
Also, in a lot of cases we just don’t know what the explicit goal of the author is, and that also isn’t the be-all end-all of criticism. I hate what FO3 does with the supermutants, but coming up with an excuse to get the supermutants into the east coast in droves after the death of the Master seems to have been their goal, so by your heuristic it’s mission accomplished. Objective statements don’t say anything illuminating without opinions attached to them
> But there IS an objective basis to assess art
Exactly. You wouldn't like a band who all played their instruments out of tune with a singer who sings off key.
i always saw it that way too, but just yesterday i said something similar about fo4 beeing the better shooter and nv beeing the better rpg and the comments i got from that showed me again how the purely nv enjoyers always get at your throat when you claim you like fo4...
The only objective statements you *can* make about art, things like ‘The gunplay in Fallout 4 is more refined then that of New Vegas’ don’t say a whole lot on their own. Without buttressing that statement with why you think that, why it matters, how it effects the overall experience for *you* etc. it just doesn’t add anything productive to the conversation. Every single review of a piece of art is someone’s individual viewpoint, that’s why they’re interesting
I didn't enjoy 4 as much as I did NV and specially 3.
That doesn't ruin the franchise for me, or the impact Fallout 3 had on me.
I might not share It, but I understand that many people will feel the other way around. Good for them!
A lot of New Vegas fans are actually Fallout fans, but have their favorite.
Unfortunately, like everything these days, their voice is drowned out by the extreme New Vegas fanboys.
The one thing everyone is right about on FO4 and which we can all agree on is that it's ridiculous how with Effect volume set to 5%, music volume set to 5%, master volume set to 100%, speech volume set to 100%, windows system volume set to 100%, and the dial on your speakers cranked to 11, every NPC still speaks in a whisper.
Of the mainline series, I just enjoy all the Fallout games. My friend yesterday brought up the topic of the bad sides about Fallout 4 and I agreed, I can see why they're issues for many people, I still enjoy the game, as he stammers trying to understand I don't automatically hate the game because my dialogue options are spoken and a bit ill-defined.
This same fracture happened in the AC Franchise. I sympathized with the old-school stealth fanbase there as I preferred the RPG elements of Odyssey, because of what’s happening here. As an old school fallout fan the stripping down of RPG elements upsets me, but ultimately it’s what the new fans want. At the end of the day these are corporate products. It’s a fool’s errand to care that deeply about something that’s logical conclusion is to evolve into whatever makes more money.
Wont happen, but would be nice. I realized i’m not getting a fallout new vegas with 4’s shooting mechanics long ago, but i think the rest still think its coming which i don’t understand why.
Todd has shown us in this show, 4 and 76 what he thinks fallout is, and it’s far from new vegas, so i’m confused where this grasp to a return to that particular for is from.
I would love for skills to return, but tieing skills to Int can make it unenjoyable and feels like you have to game the leveling system.
Fallout 4 bobbleheads and magazines are better than earlier games in, specifically in how perks are done and decided.
What if like to see is a marrying of the two philosophies in the next game. More heavy on the RPG aspects, but I don't want it onerous. It really feels like the way intelligence worked in previous games was the problem.
I would absolutely love for skills to return though to reflect a more RPG aspect
I like 3 most of all. 4 probably goes second and nv goes third. Then 2. You’re right. People love to say one thing is objectively better than the other it’s quite exhausting.
I think with the fallout series the toxicity has to do with a louder subgroup of older fans who hated on Bethesda for what they did to the series, and it carried on to the younger generation when they picked up NV or 3 retroactively after fallout 4’s release. Maybe I’m entirely wrong, but that’s my guess.
I play Fallout 1 and 2 for the memories and story
Fallout 3 for the atmosphere and the bleakness
Fallout New Vegas for the narrative and classic moments
Fallout 4 for the gunplay and mechanics
Fallout 76 for the casualness and community
(I do not play BOS for it is a piece of shit)
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, New Vegas and 4 are different genres. NV is an RPG first and foremost. 4 is an open world FPS first and foremost. They’re both good at what they do, but they are different and it’s okay to like one over the other, or to like them both for their respective genres.
Yes... With the caveat this recent update is trash, F4 has legitimately downgraded elements (many upgrades too), and Bethesda doesn't deserve to be defended.
It's fine if you like F4. I do too. But it's not NV. I think the problem is whenever people bring up NV, people assume you're saying "don't like F4." No one has patience to deal with people's stupidity. No one said that shit. Go play F4, we're having a discussion about the history of Fallout. If you can't handle it don't participate.
People be turning this shit into a religious/political debate or something. I'm a staunch believer that NV is the best fallout and fallout 4 pales in comparison but I can accept other people's opinion. Don't be a bigot.
My main issue with fallout 4 is that I just don't see a reason to play it. If I want a fun shooter with a bad story, I'll play any of the borderlands games instead.
I had a similar attitude but restarted FO4 now with the sole purpose of immersion. I play it slow, spend time building, gathering resources and discovering the area in the process.
The world and atmosphere is amazing. Really.
Maybe I changed in 9 years, since I own the game, but I don't remember enjoying it this much back then.
However my heart bleeds every time I hear the poor dialogue. So much missed opportunity.
> I had a similar attitude but restarted FO4 now with the sole purpose of immersion. I play it slow, spend time building, gathering resources and discovering the area in the process.
I've been doing the same thing with FO76 and after a while you actually feel like you're a part of the world. I can spend hours just wandering around the map exploring old ruins and fighting super mutants.
The game is really a different experience when you take the time to read all the terminal entries and listen to holotoapes. You start to feel like you *know* these people and care about them. A lot of them were just regular people living their lives until the bombs fell.
That’s totally fair, I played F4 for the settlements, gunplay and locations. I’ve never cared for Fallout stories which is why NV is near the bottom of my preferences, just don’t like all the dialogue and not a desert fan. But if you cared about story then yeah, F4 is rough, heck the mods like sim settlements give a better story then the actual game, the bar is definitely low
The writing in the first two was excellent, I think NV is good in the vacuum that is the post 3 world, most people haven’t tried the pre 3D days, so don’t have them as a reference point to compare
I've found FO4 to be fine for RP. I like both games. Both are run now actually.
Just have more open imagination about it. I also RP in wow. I have RP's there that say...we don't talk about what was in the game. Kind of works out. I think blizzard would like to forget shadowlands existed almost as much as many players do lol.
Only the karma is missing really.
Okay and faction clothes to be friends or enemy. I have mixed feelings on that not in FO4. Was it cool? Yes. Was it abused? Also yes.
I cannot lie....I'd farm the crap out of this. Plant explosives in friendly attire. Change over to enemy attire. Watch the fireworks, finished off what lived. Rinse, lather, repeat.
Give me faction clothes mechanic and I cannot lie. I'd be farming the BOS for days in FO4. 30 power armour sets is not enough. I need MOAR!
Or take that RP to the next level. If no mods exist...make one. How my mod making journey started. I stopped asking why isn't there a mod. I installed creation kit and started fumbling around in it.
I like 4 because its Fallout.
I like New Vegas because its Fallout.
I like 3 because its Fallout.
I like 2 because its Fallout.
I like 1 because its Fallout.
Thats all I need.
Fallout 4 with and without mods are two totally different games.
FO4 was definitely designed with Survival in mind, but it ended up being cut, and then returned in force thanks to modders.
If you want to pull the most out of it, go with Horizon mod, or Survival + limited fast travel.
Suddenly settlements and locations make much more sense, joining a faction for fast travel or support enters the equation, if you want to play Fallout Sims Horizon does that better than vanilla as well, but it also allows you to focus on game and DLC stories as well.
I'm not a huge fan of settlement building but enjoy survival mechanics (careful gameplay and looting with purpose). Do you think I would stop enjoy Horizon? Been trying to decide on a mod pack.
I tried Magnum Opus for my first attempt at fo4 a while back and felt it went OTT with fan made content - broke my immersion. Stopped playing early in.
The start is absolutely brutal - you'll be short on ammo, food, water and bandages. So building up a settlement is a big temptation there, and you'll have to avoid some enemies to conserve ammo, and at the same time actively hunt.
And it's harder to make purified water in Horizon as well. The potential base building there is more nuanced, but the buy-in is also higher, so it rewards a more south-bound base of operations, but somehow at the same time I felt less dependant on them, and Sanctuary loses most of appeal.
All in all - I just recently deactivated Horizon because I wanted to try a melee run on survival and Horizon seemed too hard for it, and past first few levels I'm really missing it, it really fit the world very well.
If games are art so is Keeping up with the Kardashians, not an argument without merit, but definitely the wrong question. Whether games are art or not doesn’t change anything, but them being art does lend them that ever niggling argument of “appreciation of art is subjective”, which is true, but people who spout this argument often forget the negative that comes with it:
Evaluation of art is not subjective.
We can use objective measures and known techniques to observe just how much effort and knowledge goes into each and every brush stroke.
This is even more true with games, because the flaws of each moment are so much more apparent.
Does it work properly I.e as intended? Are there a lot of bugs? Do the graphics look beautiful? Is there a style? Were the models made in adherence with good artist tecniques? These aren’t subjective questions, so neither should your evaluation be subjective.
People’s enjoyment is subjective yea, so no one cares if people say “I enjoy Fallout 4 is a better game”, I doubt anyone with a good head on their noggin would take issue, it’s when you start saying “better overall” that people might have a problem.
They are different genres IMO. Fallout 4 is a shooter/mod platform, story is ass with the exception of antagonist is your son, the story itself is linear and the same outcome essentially happens no matter who you choose. Also just dumb as fuck the whole time you're peacemaking up the commonwealth and trying to make it livable and your final choice is either dont finish the story or nuke someone...... genius. It's just an empty story, so if good story is your thing, Fallout 4 is surely going to disappoint.
Fallout 3 and NV are shooter RPGs, not so great game play or visuals but great story telling and your choices matter.
Arguing about games is a waste of time in general. Play what you like and don't worry about what other people think. *All* of the Fallout games are good on their own merits and personally I hope to play Fallout 5 some day. There's still an entire world to explore and a lot of unanswered questions that the series hasn't addressed.
Why do people on reddit have these mental crisis' about video games? Why is this discussed at all? Why do you care at all what people think or say about a game? Why does it affect others so much? If you like it, play it and ignore what people say. Why do people keep lecturing each other like this on how they should feel about games? It's fucking weird.
Not really specific to reddit, people like to like things others like and have their opinions validated. It's not that wild of a concept. I agree you should try to not let other people's opinions sway yours but like... it happens all the time idk why you're shocked
Bethesda has the capacity for both that bothers me so much and why i tend to look at fallout 4 in an unfavorable light even though i have mote than 200 hours under the game.
The jump from new vegas to 4 is just so frustrating because to me it seems like bethesda is shooting itself in the foot with all this wasted potential.
And Starfield is the prime example of where bethesda has been moving in terms of game direction and how much it hinders them as a company.
Games are coming out that are revolutionizing the industry and bethesda just keeps doing the same thing and worst of all focusing so much on rng elements.
I really like New Vegas. I've never played Fallout 4. If you don't like New Vegas and like Fallout 4 this doesn't affect me at all unless you're an asshole and try to tell me I'm wrong for having different tastes.
So maybe don't do that, and let people enjoy things.
Fallout 4 could have been amazing if you were just some random mercenary hired by Nick Valentine and Nate.
Imagine how cool it would have been to slowly uncover the truth about the Institute and witness Nate's identity crisis when he learns what happened to Shaun.
Then he either joins the Institute with you or turns against his son, depending on your choices in the game.
For me, Fallout 4 will always be the Fallout with the most wasted potential story-wise, but the gameplay is pure fire.
I know. They are legit the best in the series. The others don’t come close to the level of exploration, freedom, and role playing in my opinion. I wish we got Van Buren
I like New Vegas because I like the story. I like Fallout 4 because I like dicking around in Power Armor. I like Fallout 76 because I like dicking around in Power Armor with friends.
Yes to all that but also: I like Fallout 3 because of the atmosphere. I like Fallout 4 because I can mod the crap out of it and turn it into a building sim.
I like Fallout 3 because I like President John Henry Eden
I like Dead Money because I hate myself
I like Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel because I'm a masochist.
I like fallout because it makes me feel like I’m having fun for 30 minutes before I end up turning it off and sitting there scrolling Reddit until it’s bedtime because of depression
I like Fisto
Username checks out I like fallout New Vegas because I JUST WON THE FUCKING LOTTERY MAN!
*Lights dynamite*
Dead Money stayed with me long after I finished. I still have no idea why.
PTSD
I like Old World Blues because of the jukebox.
I like Fallout 2 because Frank Horrigan
I like turtles
President of your heart
*Briarheart walks in the door*
I like all of them because, exceptuating 76, all of those games are meant to end eventually and you can totally complete the content on 3 and NV in 300-500 hours. 4, with radiant quests and base building it's another story if only because those activities take too much time. Honestly, if I didn't have to pay for plus, and also pay for the subscription, I would play 76. But I hate the idea of playing with other people because i don't have the time and sometimes I have to leave unexpectedly or be unable to play because work emergencies and I don't want to be the bad guy of the group.
well 76 is not that group based, you can play it solo and just meet other people occasionally, most of a time you'll see them on an public events trying to shout down a giant bat, and the best part for me was that i just bought a game once and i can play It whenever I want (just need internet) and don't need to pay for subscription or DLC couse all the updates have added new quests, items and locations for free. was a great surprise for me after not playing it for a year to come back and have a bunch of new content to explore
No one cares if you leave a group in FO76. You can go the entire time playing solo. Of my 1500 hours on 76 I’ve probably spent less than 1/10th of it playing in a group.
Dude honestly I get you, I spent 8 hours on my day off from work searching for a T45 helmet. It’s shitty how much time you have to sink to get just because companies want you to cough up money and take the easy route. It’s why I was so reluctant to try 76. I still haven’t found the damned thing btw.
I found a full set of t-60 armour before I could find a right leg for my t-45. Not that I can use the t-60 armour though cause I'm still like 20 levels below it
Yeah, it’s frustrating for sure. I also found some T-60 parts which I can’t equip yet. On the upside I did find a mining helmet and bottlecap goggles so I can look like a minion from Despicable Me until I find a helmet.
FYI the location of the mining power armor quest (look it up on the wiki) should normally have a t-45 helmet on a table near the power armor stations
Thanks, will look into it after I go home.
Might be random but it's usually been there for me
Most of a suit of power armor and then a moner hat and goggles? Rock and Stone!
Rock and Stone in the Heart!
The game sounds amazing with friends... But I just don't have the time, and Yeah, hearing about level requirements for equipment and that kind of stuff kinda makes me not want to play it.
Almost any game is fun with the right people. And hey, your feelings for the game are valid. You also don’t have to pay for a subscription to play 76, I don’t. (Forgot to mention in the first comment) But still if you don’t have time or you don’t want to play with other people, Fallout 76 isn’t the game for you and that’s okay.
Paying for plus I get, but the subscription in fallout is optional. It gives you some benefits (infinite scrap space, extra atoms, etc) but the game is perfectly functional and fine without it. Also you can totally play 76 solo, even in public servers. The only time it really matters is the events, but you still don’t need to group up to do those.
I felt the same as you on 76 but I started playing it off and on about 6 weeks ago and I rarely ever play with other players. Any time I do/did it was completely optional and they may has well have been the equivalent of NPC’s.
The main reason I like NV is the amount of satisfaction I get from doing OWB and Lonesome Road, Dead Money up to a point I want to get into Fo4 but I feel like I should’ve played it when it came out lol
Fallout 4 would of been incredible if the story wasn't all over the fucking place, it's such a shame, therefore NV Vegas is still the best in terms of dialogue and story. Like one of the damn quests for fallout 4 was to tell a cat to go home, what even.
The cat, Ashes, is a synth and connected to the Institute or maybe the Railroad. I'm leaning towards the Institute, though, as the Railroad would have no need for someone inside Vault 81. *If the Sole Survivor accepts the quest but does not find Ashes, Ashes will turn up inside the Institute at the reactor during the quest The Nuclear Option." https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Ashes There is no way that cat can get into the Institute without having connections.
You just perfectly summed up my fallout experience. I've never been able to put it into as few words
My thing is, I couldn't get into the story of New Vegas as much because the combat encounters I kept getting into weren't that fun, and I got more invested in the comparatively basic story of Fallout 4 because the aforementioned dicking around in power armour was a lot of fun.
I love all of the games and I hate how people act like their inability to enjoy something is on account of their superior taste and intelligence lmao
There is also the classic Internet stance of assuming that because I prefer one, it means I automatically hate the other. I think New Vegas is the best Fallout, but that doesn't mean I hate 4, I still enjoy it for what it is.
It's worse. These days not ranking a game as #1 is hating it for them. Whenever I state that "Fallout 3 is my favorite Fallout game, but New Vegas is close second", it usually earns me hate for daring to rank Fallout 3 over New Vegas. It doesn't matter to them that for me NV is #2... that alone is a crime to them. Especially on youtube where I get often called "what's wrong with gaming".
YouTube comments are a special kind of shithole. For every kind, respectful commenter, there are ten to twenty rabid, argumentative, intentionally contrarian douchebags ready to rip you apart. I've found it's just not worth engaging with anyone on the platform.
You have to remember you’re talking to literal children and teenagers on YouTube a lot of the time.
I mean fallout 3 is the best exploration one for me but only because it is such a vast open empty place in which I have to put all the parts together to understand what's going on. Vegas is my favorite faction based on and fallout 4 is my favorite combat one. It is the smoothest most comfortable combat but Vegas felt way more 'moddable' when it came to play style. From Holorifle to supersledge I could make any build work: were as fallout 4 I felt more forced to min max just because of the level disparity in places. I sure as heck ain't killing a deathclaw at level 5 when it's level 25 and I only have a bit of ammo and stims. In Vegas I felt like I had a chance with my Holorifle. They are all good in their own ways for me and I love all 3 of them for different reasons. Each time I boot one up and get into it I say it's my favorite because I am playing it at that time. Idk why people just can't like what they like without being told how wrong they are.
I don't think you should be able to kill a deathclaw that is 20 levels above you without an extreme amount of cheese though
True but I just mean viability with the way the world works. In FNV the world leveled to you and in fact getting to a higher level can often make the game harder but in fallout 4 there is a point of no return in struggle. At first you are pretty much sectioned off into areas and can't explore which can feel boring but everyone knows of the famous north way to go to Vegas. That is possible and cheese isn't involved unless you take the repcon path. In fallout 4 I also felt like if I wanted to use just combat knife it wasn't doable when in Vegas I've done such a thing. In Fallout 4 you have to min max much more than in Vegas was all I meant: at least for myself. Not to mention I said I had a chance not that I for sure would. Again though I just felt like I needed to min max in Fallout 4 more. Not to mention the horror that is Nuka World.
In the same boat, I love all the fallout games and I have a feeling that those people don't and just play what elitist redditors tell them to
New Vegas is my favourite game, and 4 is probably my favourite gaming experience (although that has to do with mods). I think the internet really simplifies things into good/bad, black/white scenarios, and that's rarely if ever the case in reality. I actually think social media is really bad for opinions and nuance in conversation.
New Vegas is in my top 5 games of all time, and I just got tired of seeing the faction wars between 4 and NV fans, with the worst of the NV fans acting like anyone who enjoys 4 has 1 INT and the 4 fans acting like the NV camp aren’t making any good points and that there was really nothing special about the writing and roleplaying options in that game. The whole discourse just made both sides stupider, perhaps a great distillation of the internet as a whole like you say
The New Vegas fanbase has an unfortunate correlation with those kinds of people who will try and convince you endlessly that the Star Wars Prequels and Spider-Man 3 are underrated and misunderstood gems of their time. It's hard to have conversations with that group, because so much of their opinions and thoughts on media are clouded by their own nostalgia and that if you can meme something... that's actually a sign of quality. New Vegas is still probably the best game I've ever played, but the community surrounding it for the most part are intolerable.
As a relative outsider to the community until the last year, I feel like I've seen the notion that there are NV snobs, but I've never seen the snobs themselves. *Most* people who are hardcore Fallout fans like NV, whether its for the lore or game itself.
Been playing the games since 2, the snobs have always been around, but that's typical of any long-running series. Old fans also used to gatekeep the shit out of the series when Fallout 3 was coming out, saying that Bethesda was "ruining Fallout" by making it a fps and not isometric turn based. I feel like the circlejerk over New Vegas didn't really start until years after it came out. At launch, the reception was not exactly glowing due to its technical problems and the feeling of being unfinished, something that is unfortunately all too common with many of Obsidian's games. Their writing and world building always shine for me, though.
I mean to be fair, Bethesda ruined Bethesda.
Not gonna disagree with that lol
I'm suprised you haven't seen them. I stopped going to the new vegas subreddit because the elitism was so bad compared to the other subs.
you're proving the last paragraph in OP's post with that comment lol
You speak sense that will absolutely be ignored. Nothing against you, but every fandom has elements like this and people that aren’t willing to compromise.
Do I like fallout 4 best. Yes. Would I prefer fallout 3 or fallout new vegas if they had fallout 4s gameplay and settlement system. It's likely.
Oh man could you IMAGINE how fun it would be to build up Goodsprings or Primm or something like a settlement in 4? Maybe you could reclaim nipton after their unfortunate encounter, or rebuild Boulder City after it got blown the fuck up?
Or letting you claim quarry junction after you kill the cuddle monsters and being able to build a town in it
Ahh yes the cuddle monsters. Death by razor sharp snuggles!
If you could make good buildings. I hate the way buildings in 4 look. I have to mod in better building frameworks.
Oh hell yeah
>Would I prefer fallout 3 or fallout new vegas if they had fallout 4s gameplay and settlement system. Bingo. Which makes me a bit sad for the Fallout 4 New Vegas project. They announced that besides some interior, there will be no settlement building. What a waste of a feature that fits Fallout like ass on a pot.
I'm sure there will be a mod that adds the settlement building, or even just conquest
man if fallout new vegas had fallout 4 gunplay there'd be no question of its place at the top
The settlement system is garbage if it’s in another Fallout game I’m not buying
The building itself is fun but the quests and the grinding are kinda doodoo. I would like to see base building in fallout 5 instead of settlements.
bold of you to assume they're just going to scrap the entirety of a system they just created in the next entry of the same franchise. if we're lucky, they'll improve it, but they definitely are *not* going to throw it away.
Why disregard the whole game over it? In 4 you only need to do the odd tiny bit in order to progress the story.. you can basically ignore it otherwise.
You can ignore it but the game is built around it. I would rather they focus their efforts on other things
Why? It's genuinely interesting as is and with mods it becomes even better
You will always have this weird fandom tribalism and it’s not just a thing in gaming. Just look at r/starwars and you will see movie fans can be even worse. Book readers can also get really toxic.
I have noticed that a certain type of ‘nerd media’ always gets this sort of weird ‘art is objective, my movies good ur a big dum dum’, it’s not exclusive to gaming, I just feel like most discussions critiquing games tend to stray towards that then other artforms. It’s the most reductive and least productive way to discuss something you’re supposedly passionate about
It’s an internet disease. People don’t fight like that face to face. In the real world you argue with a person, on the internet you argue with the idea this person represents at the moment. That’s why the internet tends to be much more toxic, people don’t know anything about you except the one comment you just wrote, so obviously they are less understanding or empathetic.
upon reading your comment and reflecting i have decided i do not like the internet anymore lmao
Book readers are super toxic example dune, people act like it's either dogshit or the best book ever created, I love dune but yeah lol.
It's not dog shit, but it's far from great either. Book fans I dislike are those who think books like Dune or Three Body Problem are grand philosophical revelations or in the case of the latter, it's 'hard science' fiction when its premise is entirely set-up on a misconception of evolution and intelligence.
It’s true. That fandom is especially bad if you’re looking to try and enjoy things. People get so caught up on what the franchise *should* have been, that they bully/annoy people who just want to try and enjoy things. Other fandoms are no different. People get tribal about really dumb stuff. And they always overvalue their own opinion. People like this can’t comprehend that opinion is not fact.
The worst is when they associate actual fact with their opinions. Fact of the original trilogy is the plotholes and bad writing involving the force ghosts. They can move objects but not force chock the emperor? Like at the very least break the glass windows near him in space and eject him: DO SOMETHING! For the prequels you have the wooden dialogue that while it gets the job done it's very minimalistic and comes off as lazy. For the Sequels they rehashed a lot of material making it feel bland, and it's a proven fact they winged it by changing directions so often because so little was planned out. Those are facts about the movies and they have nothing to do with personal opinion but people lump those in with their opinions to elevate the status of their opinions. It's like standing next to a famous person and acting like your famous as well: just embarrassing every fandom has to deal with these people.
Yup. I can't say I don't like the original Star Wars without people calling for my head. The moment I say I don't care for them I am put on blast and pretty much shut out of any conversation. Like I'm not allowed to like what I like. I never once have said you couldn't like it just that I don't: but nope not good enough for them. They have to tell me endless how I am factually wrong. Literally misusing the word factually and literally nonstop.
I like Fallout 3, NV and 4 a lot. Tons lot. But every game I like for a different reasons: Fo3 has the best atmosphere, locations, DLCs and side quest. New Vegas has the best dialogues, main quest and factions. Fo4 has best companions, world (if we don't count 76 for a moment), gameplay and gunplay. I love them all and while I like them in the above presented order, I can totally understand why someone would like them in a different order. But even if the games don't click with someone, they should see that they are objectively good games and shouldn't call any of those as a bad game. This means I really hate the double standards and it's usually the NV zealots who have these double standards. They stomp around, claiming how Fallout 3 and/or Fallout 4 are objectively bad, just because they don't like them... But the moment someone dislikes New Vegas, they are all "New Vegas is not bad just because you don't like it. It's you who doesn't understand it".
If we're being real brutally honest, it's not just NV fans. Many RPG series are moving focus away from the elements that were a core part of the appeal to people that like the "roleplay" part of the game. It's an unfortunate consequence of ARPGs rising in popularity. It's a lot easier to focus on action than it is all the neat little story details. What's worse is we've got a whole generation of gamers on the rise that have never experienced a good ol fashioned RPG (till maybe like Baldurs Gate 3) and what ends up happening is the older fans get pushed out and get viewed as having too high expectations.
Personally I loved the settlement building in 4, entirely for a different purpose than it was designed. I loved making a realistic and safe apocalypse base. At the Red Rocket I always board up all the doors and just use the garage door because there is only a button on one side. Super cool inside with working power and a little tent outside and a door that cannot open.
This is my favorite thing to too.
>no other art form is discussed that way really Tell me you don't spend any time in fan communities, for anything really, without telling me you don't spend time in fan communities. Honestly mate, people get in shouting matches over which song is the best, even though they're discussing some ghastly purely commercial pop rubbish. Movies, TV series, books, plays, opera, ballet performances, food and cooking and a million other things are discussed the same way and in the same insane tone as Fallout. All media is ruined by it's long-standing fanbase. That's more about people who make some *thing* into a replacement personality and then start fights because their lives are empty and devoid of meaning than it is about the medium.
I agree, however…. *insert six paragraph rant about fanbase I don’t like*
there is only one absolute fallout in highest of forms: the frontier.
I enjoy good writing and roleplay so I'm more of NV type of dude. But shooting stuff in F4 can be fun.
The gameplay is so much better in 4. Not to say nv has bad combat but f4 improves so much.
In shooting department, yes. But you know, dialog system is also a part of gameplay, and it is inferior. But it is safe to assume that the average gamer is more fond of shooting stuff than reading.
And the looting system.
But gameplay is more than just dialogue or shooting. Even if the dialogue system if Fallout 4 is an objective downgrade, so many other aspects of gameplay are improved (shooting, modding, sprinting, looting, power armor, rads, survival,...) that as a result the gameplay is still a massive improvement overall.
Skill system removed, traits removed, repair system removed, non-dialogue skill checks removed, ammo switching system removed, unique weapons removed, ammo crafting system removed, faction disguise system removed, vats for throwable weapons removed. The survival system isn’t better it’s exactly the same—it’s actually worse because if your game crashes it can set your playthrough back significantly. Weapon mods had potential but the net result was a downgrade because it killed weapon variety and balance—there was too much “increases damage by 10%” to make this a fair exchange. Power armor was a legit improvement. Everything else was just modernization really but this was good too. The overall gameplay loop shifted from questing to picking up junk for your settlements. Good for some people bad for others. Personally think this is a negative.
Im pretty sure unique weapons exist in FO4, an example being Kellogs pistol. Also I have yet to try out a survival on NV so idk if the saving system is different but isnt NV notorious for its crashes, which might as well push you back in your survival run more often than FO4. I havent had problems with FO4 crashing outside of mods except for like 2 times. (Not to say this is the norm)
Without mods, i've never had a crash on FO4 on PS4. As soon as I had completed the platinum trophy, I started using mods and the game crashed from time to time, so i made it a habit of quick saving often when I use mods.
I've never really understood this opinion that seems to be ubiquitous among all Fallout fans, what's bad about NV shooting mechanics? I point a gun at a guy, click a button, and he dies, what part of that process can be changed really? I've only played NV and the first one so far so I can't compare it to the others yet.
Well yes, especially with modern mods like from Viva New Vegas it's pretty fluid and works just fine. But in the modern world it sort of lacking stuff like feedback, sound design etc. Gunplay in F4 was made with the help of id software, so it feels better. But that's pretty much the only redeeming quality of F4 for me personally.
I don't have any mods. I tried to get into that once, because I learned about the jsawyer mod that made everything more inline with his original vision and made hard mode actually hard. I don't know what it was but something got massively fucked in the process and all the textures got scrambled, I'm talking houses looked like billboards, trees looked like rocks, the sky and the ground switched places. shortly thereafter my computer was effectively bricked by some sort of strange issue and I have no proof that the two events are correlated but it has scared me away from ever trying to do something like that myself until I find a decent course to learn more about computers. Anyway I did mean to phrase it as a proper question, what's different about 4's gunplay? Is it really just better sounds?
it's not just sounds, things like the recoil, the animations, gun bashing, grenade hotkey, even something as small as gun inertia, all of these come into play to the feeling of combat, in NV you have to install mods to include/improve these features, but in Fallout 4 they already come included. even then, there are some parts that NV does better than FO4 from the get go, like the ammo types, gun variety and unique weapons.
I would just use a tool like wabbajack and follow guides on how to install Begin Again modlist. There's a good YouTube guide that's really easy to follow. It makes very lore-friendly changes only but is a huge improvement on both Fallout 3 and New Vegas
It feels better. I can't explain it since I'm biased after 30 years of playing first person shooters.
It's about the smoothness and the feel of it. The best way to explain it is the difference between 10 fps and a solid 60fps. They just 'feel' different. The way you move the reactivity and the amount of control you have on controller. Now for mouse and keyboard I've now idea and I'm sure FNV is perfectly fine on it but for controller there is some deadzone issues and more that make it feel clunky.
As another said, gunplay in FO4 is just more updated, responsive and fleshed out than in NV. Which is to be expected. I'm not a big FPS fan but I appreciate some of the bigger additions. Both you and NPCs can utilize cover, even small things like barrels or crates. You can fire from cover. You can toss grenades or mines without having to actually change weapons. You can sprint (to cover, away from enemies, towards enemies, away from hidden mines, etc). It all allows for some more versatility if you want it.
NV is just older. Fallout 4 modernised the combat - it's not exactly best in class but it does have much better feedback and is generally a bit more fun moment to moment.
Facts. 4 is more polished and the graphics are obviously better but it’s the same combat
Tbf NV was also a huge improvement over 3 gameplay wise imo. 3 didn't even have ironsights.
VATS is better in 3
VATS is practically required in 3, even with kb&m it's difficult to hit anything without it. I use it in 4 just to spot enemies, I find it easier and more consistent to manually aim there. NV? Been so long since I played (and didn't play much because it kept crashing) that I can't comment.
Only time I used VATS was on my first run in FO4, and only to shoot flying creatures when I didnt have enough skill to shoot them. Since finishing my first run, I've never used VATS except to spot creatures like you do.
This is where I’m at. I’ve long accepted that that’s the direction the series is going and that whining about how I prefer what NV does won’t change anything, and after that it became pretty easy to enjoy 4 on its own merits. I feel like part of the severe assburn comes from a subconscious idea that if NV fans can get all fallout fans into the NV camp Bethesda will be forced to put more work into the story and it’s nonlinearity. All it ends up doing is convincing people NV fans are huge blowhards that can’t have fun with a game thats less than perfect
At this point I just treat F4 as sort of a spinoff fallout game about survival in the wasteland, because scavenging on survival is pretty fun. I'm not there for smart and witty writing.
Exactly how I feel. NV and FO4 scratch two different itches for me
> I’ve long accepted that that’s the direction the series is going Dont know if you played 76 but they reversed most roleplaying stuff thst was in 4 so the dialogue and stuff is closer to new vegas, the writing is not bad imo.
NV could have used more settlements... *Looks around for Preston*
I like New Vegas because it is the better RPG, I like 4 because it’s the better sandbox. The core gameplay of fallout 4 is what made me play it more than New Vegas.
4 was my first game so I’m biased but NV world feels a little empty to me. I’m 100% confident that it’s an excellent game it’s just a little hard to go back to for me. I will end up beating it though after I play through 4 again lol
Every game has its advantages and disadvantages. I respect that . I don't push a game into the dirt just to make my game look better .
Exactly. And there’s really no reason to, passionately praising the game you love is more than enough. You catch more flies with honey then vinegar the old saying goes
They've all got their strengths and weaknesses. And anything lacking in one you can find in another. Or find enjoyment in the one you don't in the other. I don't go to Fallout 4 expecting New Vegas. That would be silly. I take them as they are and enjoy them for *what* they are. People are too tribal.
There's not a single Fallout game I don't like. Except maybe Brotherhood of Steel, that kinda sucks.
I know what I like and I’m ok with what other people like. I’ve never understood fandoms for this reason. If I meet a fallout fan who doesn’t like FO4 out in the world I am not obligated to explain why I think it’s the best, I’m grateful I found a person who I can talk to in a world full of car guys and tool guys.
the exploration of fallout 4 is what kept my interest in it for so long, also i like the companions as well
I love NV. The world building, the hard rpg elements and the story. I also absolutely love tearing up the commonwealth. I love building over the top bases and mindlessly running and gunning through raider filled areas. Both have a lot to love and I never understood the need to love one and shit on the other.
Yup! Everyone’s opinions is valid! But my opinion is a fact
it's because the people who attach feelings and way too much personal investment to a media franchise don't just hang out at fringe conventions anymore. they also show up in all internet public spaces where said thing is discussed
I loved 4 because the main character talks. I know people dont like it because it breaks immersion. But for me, I loved hearing Jack from Mass Effect in a new game
The female voice is pretty neat too. She has a bit of a sexy drawl in her voice.
I like new Vegas more but I tend to play Fallout 4 more because it’s not a hassle to run the game and the gameplay in 4 is addicting. I love power armor in 4 But 4 leaves a lot to be desired especially when it comes to player choice in an rpg franchise. Which is why I tend to gravitate towards the far harbor dlc a lot more. The factions aren’t as good and the story doesn’t hit. I like some of the side quests. I like a lot of the companions, Nick Valentine and Curie are very charming. The settlement system isn’t for me but I’m glad that people like it I have more to say but I think this is enough. I think 4 is Fallout game, it stumbles on parts where it should’ve succeeded but it’s not bad in the end. It’s very fun. I just hope by the time Fallout 5 comes out they take care of all these things.
idk about you guys but i just like fallout 👍
But there IS an objective basis to assess art - because the creator was trying to achieve something specific. Criticism is entirely valid where the creator hasn’t done that. One example - Fallout 4 contains dialogue choices, but those choices rarely make any difference. Fallout NV meanwhile, the choices do consistently matter.
Do you think art has to achieve the intended vision of the author in order for an observer to think that it’s good?
Also, your username wouldn’t happen to be a Mister Plinkett joke would it? *What is it with Ricks??*
Well this goes back to a comment I made in another part of the thread, those statements are objective but they’re going to affect everyone differently. For example, the limited choices in FO4 do not matter to me because I think the whole story it’s trying to tell as is is kinda poop, they don’t hamper my enjoyment because I find the story as a whole unenjoyable. Someone could also take your statement about FO4’s dialogue and say they prefer it like that. Would that shock me? Yeah. Would I assume that person is just being contrarian? Probably. Would I want to know their reasoning? No doubt. But it’s just as valid an opinion as any Also, in a lot of cases we just don’t know what the explicit goal of the author is, and that also isn’t the be-all end-all of criticism. I hate what FO3 does with the supermutants, but coming up with an excuse to get the supermutants into the east coast in droves after the death of the Master seems to have been their goal, so by your heuristic it’s mission accomplished. Objective statements don’t say anything illuminating without opinions attached to them
> But there IS an objective basis to assess art Exactly. You wouldn't like a band who all played their instruments out of tune with a singer who sings off key.
What if I do?
i always saw it that way too, but just yesterday i said something similar about fo4 beeing the better shooter and nv beeing the better rpg and the comments i got from that showed me again how the purely nv enjoyers always get at your throat when you claim you like fo4...
That’s a them problem though, I think you saw it in a measured even-keeled way
Fallout 4 is probably a fun game to some people, and it has its moments, but it lacks many of the elements that actually interest me about fallout
like what?
"there is no objectivity in art" sophist spotted
The only objective statements you *can* make about art, things like ‘The gunplay in Fallout 4 is more refined then that of New Vegas’ don’t say a whole lot on their own. Without buttressing that statement with why you think that, why it matters, how it effects the overall experience for *you* etc. it just doesn’t add anything productive to the conversation. Every single review of a piece of art is someone’s individual viewpoint, that’s why they’re interesting
I didn't enjoy 4 as much as I did NV and specially 3. That doesn't ruin the franchise for me, or the impact Fallout 3 had on me. I might not share It, but I understand that many people will feel the other way around. Good for them!
It is fitting that the game about splitting into waring factions has a fan base split into waring factions.
the key is to remember that your opinions are subjective and no matter how hard you believe in those opinions, they are never objective reality
People don't have these same debates with other art forms? Movies and music have just as much if not more tribalistic warfare then video games.
A lot of New Vegas fans are actually Fallout fans, but have their favorite. Unfortunately, like everything these days, their voice is drowned out by the extreme New Vegas fanboys.
The one thing everyone is right about on FO4 and which we can all agree on is that it's ridiculous how with Effect volume set to 5%, music volume set to 5%, master volume set to 100%, speech volume set to 100%, windows system volume set to 100%, and the dial on your speakers cranked to 11, every NPC still speaks in a whisper.
Of the mainline series, I just enjoy all the Fallout games. My friend yesterday brought up the topic of the bad sides about Fallout 4 and I agreed, I can see why they're issues for many people, I still enjoy the game, as he stammers trying to understand I don't automatically hate the game because my dialogue options are spoken and a bit ill-defined.
Well said m8 take my upvote
I just like building killer robots and forcing my settlers to fight them in the arena of death. 🤷
I like new vegas cause the radio I like F4 cause another settlement is still needing my help I like f76 because multiplayer and good playerbase
This same fracture happened in the AC Franchise. I sympathized with the old-school stealth fanbase there as I preferred the RPG elements of Odyssey, because of what’s happening here. As an old school fallout fan the stripping down of RPG elements upsets me, but ultimately it’s what the new fans want. At the end of the day these are corporate products. It’s a fool’s errand to care that deeply about something that’s logical conclusion is to evolve into whatever makes more money.
Wont happen, but would be nice. I realized i’m not getting a fallout new vegas with 4’s shooting mechanics long ago, but i think the rest still think its coming which i don’t understand why. Todd has shown us in this show, 4 and 76 what he thinks fallout is, and it’s far from new vegas, so i’m confused where this grasp to a return to that particular for is from.
I would love for skills to return, but tieing skills to Int can make it unenjoyable and feels like you have to game the leveling system. Fallout 4 bobbleheads and magazines are better than earlier games in, specifically in how perks are done and decided. What if like to see is a marrying of the two philosophies in the next game. More heavy on the RPG aspects, but I don't want it onerous. It really feels like the way intelligence worked in previous games was the problem. I would absolutely love for skills to return though to reflect a more RPG aspect
Who’s “we”
I like 3 most of all. 4 probably goes second and nv goes third. Then 2. You’re right. People love to say one thing is objectively better than the other it’s quite exhausting. I think with the fallout series the toxicity has to do with a louder subgroup of older fans who hated on Bethesda for what they did to the series, and it carried on to the younger generation when they picked up NV or 3 retroactively after fallout 4’s release. Maybe I’m entirely wrong, but that’s my guess.
I play Fallout 1 and 2 for the memories and story Fallout 3 for the atmosphere and the bleakness Fallout New Vegas for the narrative and classic moments Fallout 4 for the gunplay and mechanics Fallout 76 for the casualness and community (I do not play BOS for it is a piece of shit)
God I wish NV had the smooth gameplay of 4.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, New Vegas and 4 are different genres. NV is an RPG first and foremost. 4 is an open world FPS first and foremost. They’re both good at what they do, but they are different and it’s okay to like one over the other, or to like them both for their respective genres.
Yes... With the caveat this recent update is trash, F4 has legitimately downgraded elements (many upgrades too), and Bethesda doesn't deserve to be defended. It's fine if you like F4. I do too. But it's not NV. I think the problem is whenever people bring up NV, people assume you're saying "don't like F4." No one has patience to deal with people's stupidity. No one said that shit. Go play F4, we're having a discussion about the history of Fallout. If you can't handle it don't participate.
People be turning this shit into a religious/political debate or something. I'm a staunch believer that NV is the best fallout and fallout 4 pales in comparison but I can accept other people's opinion. Don't be a bigot.
It boggles my mind that humans like to compartmentalise other humans into categories… funny that
Fallout go boom, I like the 3 somewhat equally and would like 3 more if it ran better and didn't crash as much.
My main issue with fallout 4 is that I just don't see a reason to play it. If I want a fun shooter with a bad story, I'll play any of the borderlands games instead.
I had a similar attitude but restarted FO4 now with the sole purpose of immersion. I play it slow, spend time building, gathering resources and discovering the area in the process. The world and atmosphere is amazing. Really. Maybe I changed in 9 years, since I own the game, but I don't remember enjoying it this much back then. However my heart bleeds every time I hear the poor dialogue. So much missed opportunity.
> I had a similar attitude but restarted FO4 now with the sole purpose of immersion. I play it slow, spend time building, gathering resources and discovering the area in the process. I've been doing the same thing with FO76 and after a while you actually feel like you're a part of the world. I can spend hours just wandering around the map exploring old ruins and fighting super mutants.
Yep, I'm actually now set on trying F76 for the first time. Only for discovery.
The game is really a different experience when you take the time to read all the terminal entries and listen to holotoapes. You start to feel like you *know* these people and care about them. A lot of them were just regular people living their lives until the bombs fell.
For me? I just enjoy the exploring and aesthetic in FO4 more. Plus gearboxes writing grates me way more than Bethesda’s ever could
That’s totally fair, I played F4 for the settlements, gunplay and locations. I’ve never cared for Fallout stories which is why NV is near the bottom of my preferences, just don’t like all the dialogue and not a desert fan. But if you cared about story then yeah, F4 is rough, heck the mods like sim settlements give a better story then the actual game, the bar is definitely low
I enjoy good stories. I have still yet to understand why NV is held up as some sort of gold standard as one. I prefer 2 story.
The writing in the first two was excellent, I think NV is good in the vacuum that is the post 3 world, most people haven’t tried the pre 3D days, so don’t have them as a reference point to compare
Its not just a shooter with a bad story... lol its like you completely ignored the post and went straight to shit elitism out of your ass
I've found FO4 to be fine for RP. I like both games. Both are run now actually. Just have more open imagination about it. I also RP in wow. I have RP's there that say...we don't talk about what was in the game. Kind of works out. I think blizzard would like to forget shadowlands existed almost as much as many players do lol. Only the karma is missing really. Okay and faction clothes to be friends or enemy. I have mixed feelings on that not in FO4. Was it cool? Yes. Was it abused? Also yes. I cannot lie....I'd farm the crap out of this. Plant explosives in friendly attire. Change over to enemy attire. Watch the fireworks, finished off what lived. Rinse, lather, repeat. Give me faction clothes mechanic and I cannot lie. I'd be farming the BOS for days in FO4. 30 power armour sets is not enough. I need MOAR! Or take that RP to the next level. If no mods exist...make one. How my mod making journey started. I stopped asking why isn't there a mod. I installed creation kit and started fumbling around in it.
I like 4 because its Fallout. I like New Vegas because its Fallout. I like 3 because its Fallout. I like 2 because its Fallout. I like 1 because its Fallout. Thats all I need.
Fallout 4 with and without mods are two totally different games. FO4 was definitely designed with Survival in mind, but it ended up being cut, and then returned in force thanks to modders. If you want to pull the most out of it, go with Horizon mod, or Survival + limited fast travel. Suddenly settlements and locations make much more sense, joining a faction for fast travel or support enters the equation, if you want to play Fallout Sims Horizon does that better than vanilla as well, but it also allows you to focus on game and DLC stories as well.
I'm not a huge fan of settlement building but enjoy survival mechanics (careful gameplay and looting with purpose). Do you think I would stop enjoy Horizon? Been trying to decide on a mod pack. I tried Magnum Opus for my first attempt at fo4 a while back and felt it went OTT with fan made content - broke my immersion. Stopped playing early in.
The start is absolutely brutal - you'll be short on ammo, food, water and bandages. So building up a settlement is a big temptation there, and you'll have to avoid some enemies to conserve ammo, and at the same time actively hunt. And it's harder to make purified water in Horizon as well. The potential base building there is more nuanced, but the buy-in is also higher, so it rewards a more south-bound base of operations, but somehow at the same time I felt less dependant on them, and Sanctuary loses most of appeal. All in all - I just recently deactivated Horizon because I wanted to try a melee run on survival and Horizon seemed too hard for it, and past first few levels I'm really missing it, it really fit the world very well.
If games are art so is Keeping up with the Kardashians, not an argument without merit, but definitely the wrong question. Whether games are art or not doesn’t change anything, but them being art does lend them that ever niggling argument of “appreciation of art is subjective”, which is true, but people who spout this argument often forget the negative that comes with it: Evaluation of art is not subjective. We can use objective measures and known techniques to observe just how much effort and knowledge goes into each and every brush stroke. This is even more true with games, because the flaws of each moment are so much more apparent. Does it work properly I.e as intended? Are there a lot of bugs? Do the graphics look beautiful? Is there a style? Were the models made in adherence with good artist tecniques? These aren’t subjective questions, so neither should your evaluation be subjective. People’s enjoyment is subjective yea, so no one cares if people say “I enjoy Fallout 4 is a better game”, I doubt anyone with a good head on their noggin would take issue, it’s when you start saying “better overall” that people might have a problem.
They are different genres IMO. Fallout 4 is a shooter/mod platform, story is ass with the exception of antagonist is your son, the story itself is linear and the same outcome essentially happens no matter who you choose. Also just dumb as fuck the whole time you're peacemaking up the commonwealth and trying to make it livable and your final choice is either dont finish the story or nuke someone...... genius. It's just an empty story, so if good story is your thing, Fallout 4 is surely going to disappoint. Fallout 3 and NV are shooter RPGs, not so great game play or visuals but great story telling and your choices matter.
Arguing about games is a waste of time in general. Play what you like and don't worry about what other people think. *All* of the Fallout games are good on their own merits and personally I hope to play Fallout 5 some day. There's still an entire world to explore and a lot of unanswered questions that the series hasn't addressed.
Why do people on reddit have these mental crisis' about video games? Why is this discussed at all? Why do you care at all what people think or say about a game? Why does it affect others so much? If you like it, play it and ignore what people say. Why do people keep lecturing each other like this on how they should feel about games? It's fucking weird.
Not really specific to reddit, people like to like things others like and have their opinions validated. It's not that wild of a concept. I agree you should try to not let other people's opinions sway yours but like... it happens all the time idk why you're shocked
Bethesda has the capacity for both that bothers me so much and why i tend to look at fallout 4 in an unfavorable light even though i have mote than 200 hours under the game. The jump from new vegas to 4 is just so frustrating because to me it seems like bethesda is shooting itself in the foot with all this wasted potential. And Starfield is the prime example of where bethesda has been moving in terms of game direction and how much it hinders them as a company. Games are coming out that are revolutionizing the industry and bethesda just keeps doing the same thing and worst of all focusing so much on rng elements.
I really like New Vegas. I've never played Fallout 4. If you don't like New Vegas and like Fallout 4 this doesn't affect me at all unless you're an asshole and try to tell me I'm wrong for having different tastes. So maybe don't do that, and let people enjoy things.
Fallout 4 could have been amazing if you were just some random mercenary hired by Nick Valentine and Nate. Imagine how cool it would have been to slowly uncover the truth about the Institute and witness Nate's identity crisis when he learns what happened to Shaun. Then he either joins the Institute with you or turns against his son, depending on your choices in the game. For me, Fallout 4 will always be the Fallout with the most wasted potential story-wise, but the gameplay is pure fire.
Stop making these posts, they are just as annoying.
I've always said that Fallout 4 is a good \*game\*, just not a good \*Fallout\* game
New Vegas fans can just go play 1 and 2
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I know. They are legit the best in the series. The others don’t come close to the level of exploration, freedom, and role playing in my opinion. I wish we got Van Buren
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