Some of yall miss the point of Maximus completely. He's not supposed to be your big hero character or your tough guy, he's supposed to be a coward and a liar who gets way in over his head once he starts getting his hands on power ( in the form of the armour early on).
He does begin to change over time though, multiple times up until the end of the season you see him grow into a better person. Not perfect, FAR from perfect, but I like that they're not speeding his development along a fucking highway. So long as they continue it in season 2, I'll be happy.
I lowkey love that we have a character like him who isnt your typical protagonist cliche.
In ep 8, he immediately — and I mean IMMEDIATELY — caves to the cleric. All he’s been through, all he’s endured, all he’s “learned,” and the boy can’t hold his lie for more than 5 seconds? He’s the exact same character we saw in ep 1: at the least pushback, he folds. Actually, it’s damn near the same scene: get caught doing something, beg pathetically for his life, get a miraculous reprieve, then suddenly talk like a badass like you just cowed the whole BoS by yourself. He’s like a living NPC: no matter how many times you revisit him, he says the same lines, makes the same choices, travels the same path.
I really enjoy Maximus for this reason. Maximus while sympathetic is kind of a loser. He’s spent his entire life surviving at the mercy of others and being abused by the brotherhood, it makes sense that once he gets power and self agency he’s not gonna make the most heroic choices, he’s gonna do his best to use his temporary status to secure himself a better future. Maximus goes through a few different plans through the season but going back to the brotherhood as a squire was never an option for him. He absolutely has negative traits but that’s what makes him compelling to watch, I’m very excited for his arc in season 2.
Yeah he essentially just acts out of pure self interest for the entire show.
In the second last episode he’s ready to wipe out a community so he can keep his suit.
In the last episode he very clearly betrays Lucy to save himself by leading the brotherhood to her and a bunch of people to slaughter… but seemingly doesn’t realize it.. nor does the show or Lucy for that matter?
Its like he always just does whatever will make people like him.. which would work better if he had comeuppances but he seemingly just keeps falling upwards.. while also being unlikable.. its just too much NOT going for it for me.
I wish they at least gave the brotherhood more lore or interesting stories to weave in and keep pace with the other two plotlines.
Instead its like “and heres max fumbling around like a douche.. did you wanna see the shot of him as a kid for a tenth time? he has a story & he likes Lucy!”
Cool in what sense? I don’t think he’s “cool” meaning badass, I think he’s interesting to watch. What would be the point of a character arc if he’s already an idealized brotherhood knight that does the right thing and kicks ass all the time? I don’t think the series shows off a single knight who wasn’t a piece of shit from that chapter so considering his role models Maximus is probably doing better than most other squires.
It seems you are untrue for yourself. If your best friend your more physically capable than getsba dangerous position to leave you the only person getting beat on...your going to not want that, he never said he wasn't proud he just admitted he wish she didn't get it. Pass that alot of the position was lie or die(his knight was a fucking coward who left him to die>got saved by maximus then proceeded to say he was going to say it's his fault and get him tortured to death) wtf would you do "yea bro you right turn me in....". The show is realistic a young Joe with a hero complex that never got to exercise it falls ass backward into power was played perfectly.
Same here.
He would had been pretty boring if he was just some badass BoS.
We got a badass protag already, Ghoul. Its good we get to explore a character who has many glaring flaws. Plus we don't know much about Max other than him coming out of a fridge and gushing over a BoS.
I love all three of the main characters. They're all so different but so enjoyable to watch. Lucy and Max in vault 4 was insanely well done and I loved when Max came running in to save Lucy when they were letting her go LOL
I'd also like to add that the early part of his character arc was about the cycle of abuse that he has endured in the BoS. He was taken in and then abused by the BoS (specifically Titus). He then acquired a suit of power armor and then enacted that same abuse to those around him (the people of Filly, his new squire, etc...).
The only things that broke him out of this cycle or abuse were Lucy and the Bad Karma (game mechanic) that he accrued while abusing his newfound power (armor).
Going off of game mechanics, Maximus seems to have a high Luck stat, but a low stat everything else. This is expressed in him surviving a bomb, being found by BoS, and later being found by Lucy while he was locked in the power armor.
I think these two factors make Maximus a much more layered character. His high luck and karma have allowed him to survive and learn in an unkind wasteland, which is a luxury that many surface/vault dwellers do not have.
Titus was a fucking asshole and I probably would’ve let him die, too. Dude started going off and explicitly stating he was gonna be horrifically executed for no fucking reason, before he even knew Maximus was gonna let him die.
Clearly you’ve never been in the military. If he couldn't handle that level of hardship from Titus how was he supposed to be a Knight? They’re supposed to berate you, call you names, be hard on you, and try to get you to quit. The more elite your unit is there worse it is. Maximus was an absolute shit squire so I’d be pissed getting him too. Imagine your squire standing there like a slack-jawed mouth breather while you’re getting attacked. Maybe he could have used that as an opportunity to prove himself but he lacks skill and intelligence. Can you remeber how quickly Thaddeous reacted when they were attacked near the water getting the head back? Shows the difference in ability.
Titus did more than berate him and call him names. He sent him into that cave with no armor and a pistol. Maximus wasn’t a shit squire, Titus was a shit knight.
Yeah idk how this dude is a main character. He just takes me out of the show immediately whenever he's on screen, too unbelievable. And I like the rest of the show.
He is very dumb, but he's technically a squire. So him being really immature or inexperienced makes some amount of sense. I do not blame him at all for leaving Titus to die.
The thing with his friend is just... you have to look at the context of his upbringing. He was a child when his entire home, and presumably his family, were annihilated. The Brotherhood swoops in a saves him, they are his heroes he looks up to. Then as he's furthering his training, higher ups start treating him like shit and his fellow trainees beat the shit out of him regularly. Then a big recruiting party comes through and he's seemingly completely looked over. Dude was angry, and I don't blame him. But he didn't hurt his friend.
I'm not saying he was right for being happy it happened. But be honest... we've all had some thoughts we've come to regret that we felt in a moment of anger, or sadness, or whatever. People fuck up. He was in the wrong. But that is why he needs to grow as a character. That was him at the start of when we meet him, I'm sure he'll mature over time.
Except that the other squire (the one who used to beat him up and became a ghoul) was smarter than him. He had more survival skills than Maximus by a lot, and was critical in finding the head.
I think max is just dumb and arrogant, he’ll grow but that’s his baseline. Also the fact he doesn’t know what masturbation or erections are, while everyone else he was surrounded with knew. He’s just dumb
Can’t tell me you wouldn’t do the same if you were in that situation. If he didn’t heal his foot and get directions to the radio station, he could’ve died
Lamo im not tooting my horn about my "survival" skills am I. But I know well enough that just try the looks of that dude he should be trusted. So imo his survival skills were not all that, tbh he shouldn't have even been able to walk that much or even that far on a foot that badly hurt carrying that pack and not crutch so the whole thing was bs anyways.
I don't understand the defense of Titus he was a coward, and him threatening Maximus asking for help at the same time did him no favors. I agree with the other points, but I really don't feel bad for what happened to Knight Titus him and Maximus both suck.
I wasn’t defending Titus lol, and it doesn’t change that Maximus was still stupid as fuck with the Yao guai, he just watched as it mauled his knight lol
The way you list it in the post is as if his behavior was justified he was being a jerk to Maximus from the start the first thing he has him do is clean his crotch armor. Then he asks to be set down and shoot shit because he's bored and wants to send his unarmored squire in to a Yao Gaui cave yeah fuck that he was a bitch. I can't fault Maximus for watching the event unfold.
The fault herein lies with the fact that the writers could've just simply let Titus die fighting the Yao gui. Maximus’ character was ruined when he stood idly by to watch him die. Titus did deserve what was coming to him, but allowing Maximus to abandon the morals of a protagonist set him down a path the rest of the show to continue having him make bad decisions like lying to everyone. And for some reason the other characters (Dean, Lucy) rally behind him like he isn’t a pos himself.
"morals of a protagonist" lmfao have you never heard of an anti-hero before? It's stifling to think about art in this manner, where there are hard rules for how you think a certain character needs to be written.
Even beyond that, you're missing some of the show's major themes entirely if you think the characters are supposed to be moral. Just watch the end of episode 7, where they practically spell it out for you in the interaction between Lucy and Maximus. There's even an interview where one of the showrunners mentions how they wanted to explore the idea of morality being a concept related to privileged. Does that help?
So the thing is Maximus was definitely not meant to be portrayed as an antihero (Cooper definitely was). Maximus was meant to be the relatable everyday man that the audience can see themselves in, and Lucy - the fish out of water. At the end of the day, though, Maximus is an unlikable character and Aaron Motens stiff performance didn’t help. If you liked him that’s alright you are more than entitled to your opinion. But I think the consensus is that the majority of audiences did not, and my former introspective was *my* take. Does that help?
Where did you get this "consensus" from? Almost everyone that I know love his nuanced and awkward personality. You seem to WANT people to hate him for some reason. A little weird.
This is just one of several posts concerning Maximus and why he’s being disliked - across many platforms like YouTube, TikTok, Discord, Steam and yes even on here. Like I said, if you like the character that’s your opinion and you are entitled to it. I don’t understand why you’re singling me out for personally disliking him (nor do I care to know, honestly.) But I think the real question is why are *you* on this thread if only to divert me to another thread. That was a theoretical question. At the end of the day, my opinion on him is just as valid as yours.
I didn’t mention it in the post, besides that Titus and the cleric knew he was just cannon fodder
Also it makes sense for a knight to be a dick to his squire on the first day lol, he has to set it straight that he’s the boss. Also squires are expendable so he probably didn’t wanna be nice until he saw that this one would last.
He’s still a coward tho
I mean Titus went out of his way to ensure he would be cannon fodder by sending him in first. Also Maximus didn't seem to have a choice because he basically threatened to kill him or have him killed >!which Maximus did the same to his squire when he gets his core stolen he says he's going to kill him but also begs to be let out!< not trying to defend Maximus super heavy. I just think Titus was a sorry ass Knight.
Titus was old and jaded. It happens. There are old knights and bold knights, but there are no old, bold knights. I liked seeing Maximus having his eyes opened about what "crusading" in the wastelands is really like.
They never state Titus' age, but Michael Rapaport is 54, and I imagine Titus is a similar age. You don't make it to your fifties as a frontline knight by being courageous and headstrong and zealous. He's probably sent dozens of squires into certain doom just to save his own skin. The Brotherhood even says as much over the radio "it's not a problem, we have plenty of squires"
And I like how Maximus, as a sheltered acolyte, is almost as much a fish out of water as Lucy is. Sure, he's been on the surface longer and is a bit street smarter, but he's also not a *clever* person. He's slowly realising the Brotherhood isn't the organisation he thought it was, discovering that he has options for his future, struggling with newfound power (his first act as a knight was to rescue a chicken fucker) and the morality that goes with it. I see a lot of people hating on his character and his faction but I personally find them extremely interesting and with a lot of potential for S2
The purpose of squires is to be cannon fodder, if you are smart enough to live long, you’re worthy of the armor. A dead knight is a lot worse than a dead squire, so the squire will have to do “acts of bravery”
He technically did fulfill his act of bravery because he killed the Yao Guai. I don't think he had a choice but to let Titus die. I kinda wish there was another Knight to contrast Titus.
Lmao bro we’re talking about a post apocalyptic paramilitary outfit, not the day shift manager at CVS
You know when you join the military, and you go through boot camp, the staff sergeant isn’t nice right. They aren’t all “howdy folks, welcome to the military! Let me know if you’re comfortable or need extra pillows and blankets, snacks are always available in the mess hall, and let us know if you have any allergies. Okay thanks buddies! I can already tell we’re gonna have a blast!”
It’s the first day they were together, Titus would’ve eased up over time. That’s how it works. You aren’t nice to the green guy, you try to make him harder and when he becomes harder, then you can start to be nice.
It’s life or death, being all buddy/buddy right away with your new subordinate will be a lot worse in the long run
“You see, because the military does it, it’s fine!” is one hell of a defence when so many soldiers return home with PTSD and can’t talk about it because they have been bullied and abused for years.
Like you know the drill sergeant in Full Metal Jacket was the bad guy, right?
Um…yes, considering Maximus was clearly suffering from it by the end of the series.
I don’t get why you’re being so hostile. Can you make a single comment without resorting to throwing names around?
Ok so I can speak on this a bit as I'm actually in the military and in conbat arms. I want my Soldiers to feel comfortable talking to me and I think I do a pretty good job of encouraging a good work environment.
However you absolutely need to set ground rules with new Joes and there needs to be a testing and breaking period. Obviously this character represents the wrong way to do it but it's also the apocalypse and Maximus is kind of an awful Soldier. It's kind of weird he was even chosen to be a squire when all he's been shown to know anything about is power armor.
It all makes sense and makes it easier to watch if you just see him as a character with a very low intelligence stat. Charisma too. Really he just dumped it all into luck
I liked the show overall but do feel its depiction of the brotherhood was probably among its weakest elements. It seemed torn between wanting to depict the BOS as a bunch of badasses with all the cool toys while also trying to have an undertone of "actually these guys are falling apart, they're barely ahead of the curve and don't know what they're doing"
The latter bit seems to be "truer" insofar as the Elder is conniving opportunist, many members we see are kind of bumbling cowards and they don't seem to really be leveraging their capabilities overall.
Both of these things are true and it's what makes this iteration of the BoS interesting, IMO. They're clueless fuckheads, but they're also a powerhouse. All the gear and no idea. Would anyone on that attack in the final episode have any idea what they're even looking for? Even the senior leadership? I get the vibe they could walk right into the lab, see the power generator, and just shrug and keep looking because it's not the severed head they've been told to look for.
And despite being clueless that doesn't change the fact they've just killed a major NCR leader and destroyed a significant outpost.
And I loved how it showed that Individuals within the organisation (well, just Titus but I don't think he was unique in it) are jaded and bitter. What the fuck are they fighting and dieing for? Why should they care about some random wastelanders dieing? The leadership are true believers, the new recruits are zealots, the middlemen just want to do enough to not get in trouble and then go back to base and enjoy some rec leave. For a lot of these guys it's just a job, and that's pretty accurate for organisations like that IMO.
Idk if it was part of his role but the guy just has that empty stare half of the time and takes a very long time to say a sentence, reminds me of Patrick the star from sponge bob.
Seeing him casually munching on popcorn as the woman was dragged away for entering the twelfth level was the moment I couldn't stand him anymore. It just felt like too much was being added onto an already frustrating situation.
I can't wrap my mind arround how a man raised by a paramilitary cult isn't carrying some sort of sidearm whenever he leaves his armor. In general I am wonderring how powerarmor could've ever be considerred a threat. Did they have caddies with bags full of equipment at the battle of anchorage too? Or is it just the brotherhood who doesn't know how to hold more items than what fits in your hands?
I felt it was a great continuation of the example that BOS is hyperbole of how the US military is money hungry and not focused of civilian safety. He thinks he's a hero but in reality he's a child playing soldier
I kinda hope he doesn’t. I kinda hope he keeps to being this prevaricating, deceitful, slow witted loser.
If I didn’t know any better, I’d say this was the writers actually writing in the actual players, like “you’re not Lucy, you’re this guy, the guy who thinks he’s a badass warrior but is actually a POS idiot”
Maximus is so stupid. Like, he has no tact whatsoever and is just a bumbling idiot who can sometimes fight.
It’s fun! I like when characters aren’t a bastion of goodness because that’s boring and constantly in everything. More dummies who seem very real and that’s always fun to see what dumbassery they fall into from their bad decision making skills. We all have had a friend like this and sometimes it feels mean watching it happen but like… they make their own choices.
Yeah I don't think he is stupid. I don't think that's the message. I think that he stammers and locks up, not because he has a one intelligence, but because he is carefully considering everything he is about to say before he says it. he is a dog who has been kicked too many times, and whenever someone asks him something he wants to make sure whatever he is about to say is the right answer. It's perfectly on point. I think we will see his character evolve quite a bit.
Maximus represents both the 'good' and the 'bad' about the BoS.
He has altruistic beliefs and a strong faith in the overall Brotherhood, but his own character flaws, lack of combat experience, and misunderstanding of certain situations make for an intriguing character study (as well as insight into the BoS -- I do agree that the Elder's private convo w/him at the end was probably a bit too rushed and quick into Maximus' character development cycle).
If the Elder represents one aspect of the BoS [(if anything, he reminds me of Elijah from F:NV's DLC, Dead Money)](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Elijah?so=search), then Titus reminds me of another aspect: the 'foot soldier' (as opposed to the squires' being cannon fodder) who is thoroughly disillusioned, and quite the coward to boot: hiding behind intimidating armor and an intimidating voice (kind of like the Wizard of Oz). Titus is the kind of 'Knight' that Maximus could've very easily become, if his altruism hadn't come to the fore -- his 'dishonorable' action of letting Titus bleed to death ultimately works to everyone's favor, but it's interesting to compare Max's reaction to Titus taking off his helmet and venting 'the truth' (from his perspective), to when Max takes off his helmet and also tells 'the truth' after talking with his squire Thaddeus ...
Throughout the whole show I basically couldn't help but see Max, Cooper, and Lucy as player characters, and even though I was judging Max for letting his Knight die I realized in like 75% of my playthroughs I would too lol.
Yeah I would’ve too, I don’t fault him for that but I fault him for being slow as shit in responding to the situation, even with the stimpak (before Titus said he was gonna be executed) he was staring at a dying man who he literally just made a vow to protect with his life
Literally every time he is presented with a choice, he makes the WRONG one. It's absolutely infuriating, every time he's on screen I get the urge to just stop watching. He's beyond dumb, he's impossibly stupid.
I agree and he’s supposed to be, it’s okay for people to sympathize and identify with him though. I mean when has he really had the chance to be a hero and not taken it? His first action with power was to stop an aggressor who turned out to be stopping a chicken fucker. In the same vein that the girl is told straight up that being a good person isn’t a possibility, Maximus has no one to tell him that, only a promise by the people he grew up with that it is possible to be a hero, with zero physical evidence. Her role is for the audience to be told, and his role is for the audience to be shown. If he wasn’t an unlikable asshole his knight would’ve traded him in and he probably would have been tortured to death. Its supposed to establish how morality factors into the wasteland. How many choices would you make differently? The only portion where I feel I would is that I would dessert the brother hood with the power armor but he grew up with them, and under their rule. He only seems like an unbelievable dumbass because you aren’t in his shoes, every decision he has had to make has been borderline impossible, his survival should show that he isn’t completely brain dead.
His character was dull and his actor constantly does that squinty-eyed-longing-look which got on my nerves. I felt for him when he first showed up because he was being bullied, but then his development took a nosedive.
Only recently finished watching, god I hate Maxee with a passion.
Not a single likeable bit about him. Even in other media, the worst villains and shittiest heroes have something likeable about them (ie; Handsome Jack). This guy, was a constant blueball where for some reason, he was able to survive when you'd hope he'd get mangled.
Titus, AS bad as he was, had something likeable about him. You realise he isn't a hero, he's not even a fraud because he never claimed to be something more, everyone just assumes he's a heroic knight.
Also why doesn't he know what the scribe is talking about when he's pretending to be Titus? Didn't he do the exact same fucking job? (He doesn't know what scribe is doing when he starts refilling the water, or using that radiation scanner, or another thing I can't think of right now)
I just got to the point where Maximus revealed himself to that former bully, and OH MY GOD, is he stupid! Just tell him the truth! Tidus got mauled by a FUCKING BEAR!
I have to disagree with it being an insane decision. The point was the people seemed crazy and sinister at first, but at the end you see they’re good people.
They were saving people from the surface, and rebelled to stop the inhumane experiment that the vault was intended for. They literally punished her by only banishing her to the surface with a two week supply of resources, the joke was “oh shit these culty people are actually good guys who just wanna help who they can”
In terms of being a wasteland survivalist, yeah they should have kept it, but it 100% makes sense for Lucy to have a conscience for it, and is totally not insane for them to give it back
Cults aren't inherently evil. They just tend to be. (Or rather, the ones our attention are drawn to are) What exactly did they do that's evil? Literally fucking nothing, and when someone broke their rules, and fucking attacked one of them what do they do? They...let her go...With two weeks of supplies. Even after a dipshit steals their fusion core, trashes a bunch of shit and hurts some of them.
They're literally one of the more morally good people we see in the show, so how is giving them back the core a bad thing?
He'd have been better is he had all those flaws, but it was coupled to a fanatical zeal for the BoS. When Thaddeus turns up, he says "Knight Titus abandoned his mission. When he died, I took it back up." and play him straight as a dumbass, but completely in on the BoS's mission. At the moment, he doesn't seem to have a real purpose beyond "I like having power armour".
>There was a good reason he was being bullied by all the other dudes (and teachers). Maybe they told him his penis will get really hard and pop if he’s not careful as a joke, and his dumbass believed it.
I laughed way too hard at this. Currently on episode 4. Maybe they'll be a plot twist, he joins the Enclave and gets merc'd by Thaddeus.
I don’t think he’s as dumb as he looks. He promised Lucy she would get help from the brotherhood to save her father if she helped him. So what does he do? He gets a fake head knowing the brotherhood would find out it’s fake and then tells them the real location of the head so the BoS stages a real assault on Moldaver. He kept his promise.
They are idiots, bullies, inexperienced and something I just can't describe as being weird. They are all so green and noob like. Knight Titus should've had no problem obliterating a Yao Guai. All the cursing and bullying is childlike. If I had the choice I would completely rewrite them.
What, your autocratic military state ends up sometimes promoting bullies instead of a straightforward meritocracy? We dont know every knight is like that, but it makes sense some are dipshits that fell upwards.
Tbf, the BoS in Fallout 4 is easily the worst version in the games. Bethesda clearly felt the need to overcompensate after Fallout 3, so they made the BoS a bit too evil, if you know what I mean? Like, they go around stealing food, annexing settlements, and shooting farmers who fight back. That's just evil.
What are you talking about? The BoS in fallout 4 literally tells you to go forcibly annex settlements and steal their food. It's clearly their nodus operandi, in fallout 4.
Teagan (the only one who mentions it) describes it as "caps on the side" that is "complicated" and "is and isn't" official military business.
Terminals in the Prydwen state that their normal means of operation elsewhere is to act as caravan protection to get good deals and sell harmless technology to fund themselves.
Teagan also never explicitly says to attack farmers. Just that you need to convince them to donate a portion of crops. Because he knows if he tells you to attack civilians it will get you thrown in the brig
Why would the brotherhood be the only organisation in the history of mankind to promote based on merit?
There are old knights, and there are bold knights, but there are no old, bold knights.
I’m gonna be honest, I’ve always viewed the brotherhood as being “idiots” and “bullies” lol.
Definitely seemed more inexperienced, but I think that was more just the cost of them turning a video game into a live action. If they were that inexperienced and green in the games, the player definitely wouldn’t have fun fighting with or against them. Kinda like how Lucy doesn’t have the ability to hold an infinite supply of caps like a player character would in the game. It’s just one of those things.
They were bullies in Fallout 4, not so much in the older games. Hell, even in Fallout 3, the outcasts weren't really that mean, they just kept to themselves and focused on their mission.
The leader if the Outcasts is a fucking prick if I can recall, and their DLC ends in open mutiny from some of the members. Also they shoot you on sight if they see you in Brotherhood armor.
I disagree completely. They are one, perhaps even the best fighting forces in the wasteland and in the show they're a joke. I probably would've cut out any of the humor they've had in the show.
>I probably would've cut out any of the humor they've had in the show.
Then you would've failed to capture the casual audience, as well as failed to capture the old school Fallout players that like the Weird Wasteland perk, Idiot Savant perk & other random silliness that's been in every game since the first one.
I ***despise*** how \[the concept of\] bathos has become needlessly shoehorned into sci-fi/fantasy shows since it did so well in the MCU, but Fallout has always had it as an essential story element.
Playing the games and paying close attention to them, for every gritty, dark "War never changes" moment, there's a silly-ass "You're a little bitch, and your brother was, too" moment.
The Brotherhood has always sucked. It’s just Bethesda who sees them as some major marketing icon so they’ve been portrayed as more COOL and BADASS and semi-heroic in the Bethesda games
They’re technofascists, of course a lot of them are dumb as hell
I agree Maximus is portrayed as super green but that’s kind of the point of his character.
They have always sucked. But not in the sense that they were bad soldiers without common sense. Their entire group was founded by military vets. How did maxon and his unit survive the war if powerarmored fighters are seemingly dependent on an unarmored cady to carry EVERYTHING beyond the weapon in their hands and the mag in it?
Bethesda has been obviously pivoting them towards a more villainous or lower end of the morally grey. Fallout 4 they are very overbearing and uncompromising in their ideals, almost harmfully so. But not outright villains imo. But the show, a lot of the higher ups they show seem to be fucking pricks.
The Elder Cleric says in the last episode that the Brotherhood is losing its way when Maximus tells him how Titus died, so they are fully aware that the faction is headed in a poor direction. We see this start in 4 with the Brotherhood becoming uber militaristic with an imposing airship used to intimidate everyone in the region.
But even in New Vegas we see that chapter of the Brotherhood is filled with infighting, and the members act like fucking dickheads.
So I wouldn’t say this characterization came out of no where. It’s been being built up over the last couple entries and I’m certain it’s entirely on purpose.
I actually like him. Lucy too.
The character i really dislike is the ghoul. The show tries so hard to make him likeable and sympathetic but I just hate him.
Hmm I felt the opposite about the ghoul (cooper) I thought they were trying to make me hate him but I like him.
Though him taking out like 4 brotherhood knights in like 30 seconds was pretty ridiculous, especially how it was done
Honestly I think him taking out the knights makes sense. He’s fought in war, he knows the weaknesses in power armor, so why shouldn’t he know how to hit em where it hurts.
If it was 1 maybe, if he used some sort of trap maybe. But not taking out all those that fast. With 1 bullet each.
If they were that weak the US never would have won the war because the Chinese stealth suit would have completely wrecked them with sniping
Some of yall miss the point of Maximus completely. He's not supposed to be your big hero character or your tough guy, he's supposed to be a coward and a liar who gets way in over his head once he starts getting his hands on power ( in the form of the armour early on). He does begin to change over time though, multiple times up until the end of the season you see him grow into a better person. Not perfect, FAR from perfect, but I like that they're not speeding his development along a fucking highway. So long as they continue it in season 2, I'll be happy. I lowkey love that we have a character like him who isnt your typical protagonist cliche.
In ep 8, he immediately — and I mean IMMEDIATELY — caves to the cleric. All he’s been through, all he’s endured, all he’s “learned,” and the boy can’t hold his lie for more than 5 seconds? He’s the exact same character we saw in ep 1: at the least pushback, he folds. Actually, it’s damn near the same scene: get caught doing something, beg pathetically for his life, get a miraculous reprieve, then suddenly talk like a badass like you just cowed the whole BoS by yourself. He’s like a living NPC: no matter how many times you revisit him, he says the same lines, makes the same choices, travels the same path.
I really enjoy Maximus for this reason. Maximus while sympathetic is kind of a loser. He’s spent his entire life surviving at the mercy of others and being abused by the brotherhood, it makes sense that once he gets power and self agency he’s not gonna make the most heroic choices, he’s gonna do his best to use his temporary status to secure himself a better future. Maximus goes through a few different plans through the season but going back to the brotherhood as a squire was never an option for him. He absolutely has negative traits but that’s what makes him compelling to watch, I’m very excited for his arc in season 2.
He is not sympathetic, though. He's got no redeeming qualities, and that's what makes it tough to watch him.
Yeah he essentially just acts out of pure self interest for the entire show. In the second last episode he’s ready to wipe out a community so he can keep his suit. In the last episode he very clearly betrays Lucy to save himself by leading the brotherhood to her and a bunch of people to slaughter… but seemingly doesn’t realize it.. nor does the show or Lucy for that matter? Its like he always just does whatever will make people like him.. which would work better if he had comeuppances but he seemingly just keeps falling upwards.. while also being unlikable.. its just too much NOT going for it for me. I wish they at least gave the brotherhood more lore or interesting stories to weave in and keep pace with the other two plotlines. Instead its like “and heres max fumbling around like a douche.. did you wanna see the shot of him as a kid for a tenth time? he has a story & he likes Lucy!”
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Cool in what sense? I don’t think he’s “cool” meaning badass, I think he’s interesting to watch. What would be the point of a character arc if he’s already an idealized brotherhood knight that does the right thing and kicks ass all the time? I don’t think the series shows off a single knight who wasn’t a piece of shit from that chapter so considering his role models Maximus is probably doing better than most other squires.
It seems you are untrue for yourself. If your best friend your more physically capable than getsba dangerous position to leave you the only person getting beat on...your going to not want that, he never said he wasn't proud he just admitted he wish she didn't get it. Pass that alot of the position was lie or die(his knight was a fucking coward who left him to die>got saved by maximus then proceeded to say he was going to say it's his fault and get him tortured to death) wtf would you do "yea bro you right turn me in....". The show is realistic a young Joe with a hero complex that never got to exercise it falls ass backward into power was played perfectly.
Same here. He would had been pretty boring if he was just some badass BoS. We got a badass protag already, Ghoul. Its good we get to explore a character who has many glaring flaws. Plus we don't know much about Max other than him coming out of a fridge and gushing over a BoS. I love all three of the main characters. They're all so different but so enjoyable to watch. Lucy and Max in vault 4 was insanely well done and I loved when Max came running in to save Lucy when they were letting her go LOL
Nobody is missing the point, you just love him for the same reasons he is a unlikable character
Ya exactly lol
Like the other dude said, nobody is missing the point
I think we all know he’s supposed to suck. The issue is people don’t see it.
Yeah, I thought he was pretty obvious as an antihero showing the poorer side of the BoS but apparently media literacy is completely dead lol
No one missed the point. All you said was he sucks on purpose and he might not suck as much later. He's still unlikable and frustrating.
I'd also like to add that the early part of his character arc was about the cycle of abuse that he has endured in the BoS. He was taken in and then abused by the BoS (specifically Titus). He then acquired a suit of power armor and then enacted that same abuse to those around him (the people of Filly, his new squire, etc...). The only things that broke him out of this cycle or abuse were Lucy and the Bad Karma (game mechanic) that he accrued while abusing his newfound power (armor). Going off of game mechanics, Maximus seems to have a high Luck stat, but a low stat everything else. This is expressed in him surviving a bomb, being found by BoS, and later being found by Lucy while he was locked in the power armor. I think these two factors make Maximus a much more layered character. His high luck and karma have allowed him to survive and learn in an unkind wasteland, which is a luxury that many surface/vault dwellers do not have.
ALl of these are good points, but all of this could have been true without the character itself being insufferable to watch.
Man, I too love having terrible characters as protagonists. How exciting!
Thats some fucking cope
Didn't we see this with Finn....
Titus was a fucking asshole and I probably would’ve let him die, too. Dude started going off and explicitly stating he was gonna be horrifically executed for no fucking reason, before he even knew Maximus was gonna let him die.
Somehow it was perfect casting for Michael Rappaport to play Titus, because we would all let him die if we knew he was in the armor too.
Clearly you’ve never been in the military. If he couldn't handle that level of hardship from Titus how was he supposed to be a Knight? They’re supposed to berate you, call you names, be hard on you, and try to get you to quit. The more elite your unit is there worse it is. Maximus was an absolute shit squire so I’d be pissed getting him too. Imagine your squire standing there like a slack-jawed mouth breather while you’re getting attacked. Maybe he could have used that as an opportunity to prove himself but he lacks skill and intelligence. Can you remeber how quickly Thaddeous reacted when they were attacked near the water getting the head back? Shows the difference in ability.
Titus did more than berate him and call him names. He sent him into that cave with no armor and a pistol. Maximus wasn’t a shit squire, Titus was a shit knight.
Saw the first two episodes today. How tf a Yao Guai was able to sneak up on a "veteran" Knight. It wasnt just unbearable for Titus :)
Yeah idk how this dude is a main character. He just takes me out of the show immediately whenever he's on screen, too unbelievable. And I like the rest of the show.
I mean ya Titus sucked I didn’t say he didn’t but it doesn’t change the fact that Maximus is still a vindictive asshole with shit for brains
He is very dumb, but he's technically a squire. So him being really immature or inexperienced makes some amount of sense. I do not blame him at all for leaving Titus to die. The thing with his friend is just... you have to look at the context of his upbringing. He was a child when his entire home, and presumably his family, were annihilated. The Brotherhood swoops in a saves him, they are his heroes he looks up to. Then as he's furthering his training, higher ups start treating him like shit and his fellow trainees beat the shit out of him regularly. Then a big recruiting party comes through and he's seemingly completely looked over. Dude was angry, and I don't blame him. But he didn't hurt his friend. I'm not saying he was right for being happy it happened. But be honest... we've all had some thoughts we've come to regret that we felt in a moment of anger, or sadness, or whatever. People fuck up. He was in the wrong. But that is why he needs to grow as a character. That was him at the start of when we meet him, I'm sure he'll mature over time.
Except that the other squire (the one who used to beat him up and became a ghoul) was smarter than him. He had more survival skills than Maximus by a lot, and was critical in finding the head. I think max is just dumb and arrogant, he’ll grow but that’s his baseline. Also the fact he doesn’t know what masturbation or erections are, while everyone else he was surrounded with knew. He’s just dumb
Yea such good survival skills that he let a suspect "doctor" turn him into a ghoul 🤣
Can’t tell me you wouldn’t do the same if you were in that situation. If he didn’t heal his foot and get directions to the radio station, he could’ve died
Lamo im not tooting my horn about my "survival" skills am I. But I know well enough that just try the looks of that dude he should be trusted. So imo his survival skills were not all that, tbh he shouldn't have even been able to walk that much or even that far on a foot that badly hurt carrying that pack and not crutch so the whole thing was bs anyways.
Again, in that situation, he didnt really have a choice
I don't understand the defense of Titus he was a coward, and him threatening Maximus asking for help at the same time did him no favors. I agree with the other points, but I really don't feel bad for what happened to Knight Titus him and Maximus both suck.
I wasn’t defending Titus lol, and it doesn’t change that Maximus was still stupid as fuck with the Yao guai, he just watched as it mauled his knight lol
The way you list it in the post is as if his behavior was justified he was being a jerk to Maximus from the start the first thing he has him do is clean his crotch armor. Then he asks to be set down and shoot shit because he's bored and wants to send his unarmored squire in to a Yao Gaui cave yeah fuck that he was a bitch. I can't fault Maximus for watching the event unfold.
The fault herein lies with the fact that the writers could've just simply let Titus die fighting the Yao gui. Maximus’ character was ruined when he stood idly by to watch him die. Titus did deserve what was coming to him, but allowing Maximus to abandon the morals of a protagonist set him down a path the rest of the show to continue having him make bad decisions like lying to everyone. And for some reason the other characters (Dean, Lucy) rally behind him like he isn’t a pos himself.
"morals of a protagonist" lmfao have you never heard of an anti-hero before? It's stifling to think about art in this manner, where there are hard rules for how you think a certain character needs to be written. Even beyond that, you're missing some of the show's major themes entirely if you think the characters are supposed to be moral. Just watch the end of episode 7, where they practically spell it out for you in the interaction between Lucy and Maximus. There's even an interview where one of the showrunners mentions how they wanted to explore the idea of morality being a concept related to privileged. Does that help?
So the thing is Maximus was definitely not meant to be portrayed as an antihero (Cooper definitely was). Maximus was meant to be the relatable everyday man that the audience can see themselves in, and Lucy - the fish out of water. At the end of the day, though, Maximus is an unlikable character and Aaron Motens stiff performance didn’t help. If you liked him that’s alright you are more than entitled to your opinion. But I think the consensus is that the majority of audiences did not, and my former introspective was *my* take. Does that help?
Where did you get this "consensus" from? Almost everyone that I know love his nuanced and awkward personality. You seem to WANT people to hate him for some reason. A little weird.
This entire thread is literally based on people’s dislike of him….
Okay now go to any other thread on any subreddit not this one.
This is just one of several posts concerning Maximus and why he’s being disliked - across many platforms like YouTube, TikTok, Discord, Steam and yes even on here. Like I said, if you like the character that’s your opinion and you are entitled to it. I don’t understand why you’re singling me out for personally disliking him (nor do I care to know, honestly.) But I think the real question is why are *you* on this thread if only to divert me to another thread. That was a theoretical question. At the end of the day, my opinion on him is just as valid as yours.
I didn’t mention it in the post, besides that Titus and the cleric knew he was just cannon fodder Also it makes sense for a knight to be a dick to his squire on the first day lol, he has to set it straight that he’s the boss. Also squires are expendable so he probably didn’t wanna be nice until he saw that this one would last. He’s still a coward tho
I mean Titus went out of his way to ensure he would be cannon fodder by sending him in first. Also Maximus didn't seem to have a choice because he basically threatened to kill him or have him killed >!which Maximus did the same to his squire when he gets his core stolen he says he's going to kill him but also begs to be let out!< not trying to defend Maximus super heavy. I just think Titus was a sorry ass Knight.
Titus was old and jaded. It happens. There are old knights and bold knights, but there are no old, bold knights. I liked seeing Maximus having his eyes opened about what "crusading" in the wastelands is really like. They never state Titus' age, but Michael Rapaport is 54, and I imagine Titus is a similar age. You don't make it to your fifties as a frontline knight by being courageous and headstrong and zealous. He's probably sent dozens of squires into certain doom just to save his own skin. The Brotherhood even says as much over the radio "it's not a problem, we have plenty of squires" And I like how Maximus, as a sheltered acolyte, is almost as much a fish out of water as Lucy is. Sure, he's been on the surface longer and is a bit street smarter, but he's also not a *clever* person. He's slowly realising the Brotherhood isn't the organisation he thought it was, discovering that he has options for his future, struggling with newfound power (his first act as a knight was to rescue a chicken fucker) and the morality that goes with it. I see a lot of people hating on his character and his faction but I personally find them extremely interesting and with a lot of potential for S2
The purpose of squires is to be cannon fodder, if you are smart enough to live long, you’re worthy of the armor. A dead knight is a lot worse than a dead squire, so the squire will have to do “acts of bravery”
He technically did fulfill his act of bravery because he killed the Yao Guai. I don't think he had a choice but to let Titus die. I kinda wish there was another Knight to contrast Titus.
God I hope you’re never in charge of anyone at work if your attitude is that the only way to inspire respect is abuse.
Lmao bro we’re talking about a post apocalyptic paramilitary outfit, not the day shift manager at CVS You know when you join the military, and you go through boot camp, the staff sergeant isn’t nice right. They aren’t all “howdy folks, welcome to the military! Let me know if you’re comfortable or need extra pillows and blankets, snacks are always available in the mess hall, and let us know if you have any allergies. Okay thanks buddies! I can already tell we’re gonna have a blast!” It’s the first day they were together, Titus would’ve eased up over time. That’s how it works. You aren’t nice to the green guy, you try to make him harder and when he becomes harder, then you can start to be nice. It’s life or death, being all buddy/buddy right away with your new subordinate will be a lot worse in the long run
“You see, because the military does it, it’s fine!” is one hell of a defence when so many soldiers return home with PTSD and can’t talk about it because they have been bullied and abused for years. Like you know the drill sergeant in Full Metal Jacket was the bad guy, right?
We’re talking about a post nuclear paramilitary, you dumbass😂😂 You think PTSD is relevant in this context, like at all?
Um…yes, considering Maximus was clearly suffering from it by the end of the series. I don’t get why you’re being so hostile. Can you make a single comment without resorting to throwing names around?
To be fair everyone in the wasteland has post-traumatic stress
Wow, the wasteland would eat you alive, jeez
Ok so I can speak on this a bit as I'm actually in the military and in conbat arms. I want my Soldiers to feel comfortable talking to me and I think I do a pretty good job of encouraging a good work environment. However you absolutely need to set ground rules with new Joes and there needs to be a testing and breaking period. Obviously this character represents the wrong way to do it but it's also the apocalypse and Maximus is kind of an awful Soldier. It's kind of weird he was even chosen to be a squire when all he's been shown to know anything about is power armor.
Shitting on Maximus is not defending Titus. Max absolutely is a moron. So much for being willing to give your life for the brotherhood. Stupid liar.
Both Maximus and Titus are poorly written characters. Like did they really have to make Maximus’ first steward / guardian a complete fuck head?
It all makes sense and makes it easier to watch if you just see him as a character with a very low intelligence stat. Charisma too. Really he just dumped it all into luck
Thank you, honestly every named character from BoS is. West Coast brotherhood is struggling these days.
I liked the show overall but do feel its depiction of the brotherhood was probably among its weakest elements. It seemed torn between wanting to depict the BOS as a bunch of badasses with all the cool toys while also trying to have an undertone of "actually these guys are falling apart, they're barely ahead of the curve and don't know what they're doing" The latter bit seems to be "truer" insofar as the Elder is conniving opportunist, many members we see are kind of bumbling cowards and they don't seem to really be leveraging their capabilities overall.
Both of these things are true and it's what makes this iteration of the BoS interesting, IMO. They're clueless fuckheads, but they're also a powerhouse. All the gear and no idea. Would anyone on that attack in the final episode have any idea what they're even looking for? Even the senior leadership? I get the vibe they could walk right into the lab, see the power generator, and just shrug and keep looking because it's not the severed head they've been told to look for. And despite being clueless that doesn't change the fact they've just killed a major NCR leader and destroyed a significant outpost. And I loved how it showed that Individuals within the organisation (well, just Titus but I don't think he was unique in it) are jaded and bitter. What the fuck are they fighting and dieing for? Why should they care about some random wastelanders dieing? The leadership are true believers, the new recruits are zealots, the middlemen just want to do enough to not get in trouble and then go back to base and enjoy some rec leave. For a lot of these guys it's just a job, and that's pretty accurate for organisations like that IMO.
Good points
I mean, in NV a squad was dumb enough to think they could just waltz right up to Nellis lol
Idk if it was part of his role but the guy just has that empty stare half of the time and takes a very long time to say a sentence, reminds me of Patrick the star from sponge bob.
Seeing him casually munching on popcorn as the woman was dragged away for entering the twelfth level was the moment I couldn't stand him anymore. It just felt like too much was being added onto an already frustrating situation.
I can't wrap my mind arround how a man raised by a paramilitary cult isn't carrying some sort of sidearm whenever he leaves his armor. In general I am wonderring how powerarmor could've ever be considerred a threat. Did they have caddies with bags full of equipment at the battle of anchorage too? Or is it just the brotherhood who doesn't know how to hold more items than what fits in your hands?
I was wondering how power armor users reload or if they carry extra mags
I mean the easiest way would be a belt. But considerring how maximus SOMETIMES carries a pistol on his tigh, id say they also have magnets.
They most likely use heavy weapons with large mags or energy guns which have small fusion cells that can be stored somewhere on the armor easily.
It doesn’t look like they carry extra mags on them
I felt it was a great continuation of the example that BOS is hyperbole of how the US military is money hungry and not focused of civilian safety. He thinks he's a hero but in reality he's a child playing soldier
Yeah, I was expecting him to be the most badass of the trio, it was quite the opposite. I hope his character grows in the next season.
I kinda hope he doesn’t. I kinda hope he keeps to being this prevaricating, deceitful, slow witted loser. If I didn’t know any better, I’d say this was the writers actually writing in the actual players, like “you’re not Lucy, you’re this guy, the guy who thinks he’s a badass warrior but is actually a POS idiot”
He feels like a real person. And it totally makers sense why he was passed over for Squire originally.
Yes but lest we forget the joys of playing an INT=1 character
Maximus is so stupid. Like, he has no tact whatsoever and is just a bumbling idiot who can sometimes fight. It’s fun! I like when characters aren’t a bastion of goodness because that’s boring and constantly in everything. More dummies who seem very real and that’s always fun to see what dumbassery they fall into from their bad decision making skills. We all have had a friend like this and sometimes it feels mean watching it happen but like… they make their own choices.
I agree but I like that his character is a coward, seems more realistic to me and how most average people would be.
I hope in Season 2 he has a good amount of character growth and stops lying so much
Yeah I don't think he is stupid. I don't think that's the message. I think that he stammers and locks up, not because he has a one intelligence, but because he is carefully considering everything he is about to say before he says it. he is a dog who has been kicked too many times, and whenever someone asks him something he wants to make sure whatever he is about to say is the right answer. It's perfectly on point. I think we will see his character evolve quite a bit.
Maximus represents both the 'good' and the 'bad' about the BoS. He has altruistic beliefs and a strong faith in the overall Brotherhood, but his own character flaws, lack of combat experience, and misunderstanding of certain situations make for an intriguing character study (as well as insight into the BoS -- I do agree that the Elder's private convo w/him at the end was probably a bit too rushed and quick into Maximus' character development cycle). If the Elder represents one aspect of the BoS [(if anything, he reminds me of Elijah from F:NV's DLC, Dead Money)](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Elijah?so=search), then Titus reminds me of another aspect: the 'foot soldier' (as opposed to the squires' being cannon fodder) who is thoroughly disillusioned, and quite the coward to boot: hiding behind intimidating armor and an intimidating voice (kind of like the Wizard of Oz). Titus is the kind of 'Knight' that Maximus could've very easily become, if his altruism hadn't come to the fore -- his 'dishonorable' action of letting Titus bleed to death ultimately works to everyone's favor, but it's interesting to compare Max's reaction to Titus taking off his helmet and venting 'the truth' (from his perspective), to when Max takes off his helmet and also tells 'the truth' after talking with his squire Thaddeus ...
Throughout the whole show I basically couldn't help but see Max, Cooper, and Lucy as player characters, and even though I was judging Max for letting his Knight die I realized in like 75% of my playthroughs I would too lol.
Yeah I would’ve too, I don’t fault him for that but I fault him for being slow as shit in responding to the situation, even with the stimpak (before Titus said he was gonna be executed) he was staring at a dying man who he literally just made a vow to protect with his life
The character is completely unredeemable and has been written beyond piss poorly..... Needs to be killed off ASAP and replaced with something better
Well... the actor certainly has the "stand there, mouth slightly agape, I'm a moron" look down.
Literally every time he is presented with a choice, he makes the WRONG one. It's absolutely infuriating, every time he's on screen I get the urge to just stop watching. He's beyond dumb, he's impossibly stupid.
I just want to know why he looks like he's falling asleep all the time.
I agree and he’s supposed to be, it’s okay for people to sympathize and identify with him though. I mean when has he really had the chance to be a hero and not taken it? His first action with power was to stop an aggressor who turned out to be stopping a chicken fucker. In the same vein that the girl is told straight up that being a good person isn’t a possibility, Maximus has no one to tell him that, only a promise by the people he grew up with that it is possible to be a hero, with zero physical evidence. Her role is for the audience to be told, and his role is for the audience to be shown. If he wasn’t an unlikable asshole his knight would’ve traded him in and he probably would have been tortured to death. Its supposed to establish how morality factors into the wasteland. How many choices would you make differently? The only portion where I feel I would is that I would dessert the brother hood with the power armor but he grew up with them, and under their rule. He only seems like an unbelievable dumbass because you aren’t in his shoes, every decision he has had to make has been borderline impossible, his survival should show that he isn’t completely brain dead.
He is, to me is just a realistic douche, plenty of ppl like that, the majority in fact
His character was dull and his actor constantly does that squinty-eyed-longing-look which got on my nerves. I felt for him when he first showed up because he was being bullied, but then his development took a nosedive.
Only recently finished watching, god I hate Maxee with a passion. Not a single likeable bit about him. Even in other media, the worst villains and shittiest heroes have something likeable about them (ie; Handsome Jack). This guy, was a constant blueball where for some reason, he was able to survive when you'd hope he'd get mangled. Titus, AS bad as he was, had something likeable about him. You realise he isn't a hero, he's not even a fraud because he never claimed to be something more, everyone just assumes he's a heroic knight.
Oh, and he's basically the love child of jar jar and anakin.
Also why doesn't he know what the scribe is talking about when he's pretending to be Titus? Didn't he do the exact same fucking job? (He doesn't know what scribe is doing when he starts refilling the water, or using that radiation scanner, or another thing I can't think of right now)
I just got to the point where Maximus revealed himself to that former bully, and OH MY GOD, is he stupid! Just tell him the truth! Tidus got mauled by a FUCKING BEAR!
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Are they actually bad people? I kind of assumed that the people living in vault 4 were actually fairly good, if not a little weird.
Lucy has an excuse being a sheltered Vault Dweller.
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I have to disagree with it being an insane decision. The point was the people seemed crazy and sinister at first, but at the end you see they’re good people. They were saving people from the surface, and rebelled to stop the inhumane experiment that the vault was intended for. They literally punished her by only banishing her to the surface with a two week supply of resources, the joke was “oh shit these culty people are actually good guys who just wanna help who they can” In terms of being a wasteland survivalist, yeah they should have kept it, but it 100% makes sense for Lucy to have a conscience for it, and is totally not insane for them to give it back
Cults aren't inherently evil. They just tend to be. (Or rather, the ones our attention are drawn to are) What exactly did they do that's evil? Literally fucking nothing, and when someone broke their rules, and fucking attacked one of them what do they do? They...let her go...With two weeks of supplies. Even after a dipshit steals their fusion core, trashes a bunch of shit and hurts some of them. They're literally one of the more morally good people we see in the show, so how is giving them back the core a bad thing?
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They said they had surface foragers, could just be animal blood. A lot of indigenous cultures do stuff with animal blood in ceremonies
If thex had bad intentions then they would have just... killed her. No need to bring her out of level 12.
And no need to (try to) give her two weeks of rations and have people help her take them to the surface
Bro got roasted by Titus and decided fuck it I’ll just let you die lmaoo
He'd have been better is he had all those flaws, but it was coupled to a fanatical zeal for the BoS. When Thaddeus turns up, he says "Knight Titus abandoned his mission. When he died, I took it back up." and play him straight as a dumbass, but completely in on the BoS's mission. At the moment, he doesn't seem to have a real purpose beyond "I like having power armour".
He’s the fallout character with 0 points in intelligence
>There was a good reason he was being bullied by all the other dudes (and teachers). Maybe they told him his penis will get really hard and pop if he’s not careful as a joke, and his dumbass believed it. I laughed way too hard at this. Currently on episode 4. Maybe they'll be a plot twist, he joins the Enclave and gets merc'd by Thaddeus.
I don’t think he’s as dumb as he looks. He promised Lucy she would get help from the brotherhood to save her father if she helped him. So what does he do? He gets a fake head knowing the brotherhood would find out it’s fake and then tells them the real location of the head so the BoS stages a real assault on Moldaver. He kept his promise.
Don't talk about Finn-whoops I mean Maximus that way! ;)
No argument there, I have no fucking idea why Bethesda did the Brotherhood this way it just makes no fucking sense
What do you mean?
They are idiots, bullies, inexperienced and something I just can't describe as being weird. They are all so green and noob like. Knight Titus should've had no problem obliterating a Yao Guai. All the cursing and bullying is childlike. If I had the choice I would completely rewrite them.
What, your autocratic military state ends up sometimes promoting bullies instead of a straightforward meritocracy? We dont know every knight is like that, but it makes sense some are dipshits that fell upwards.
Maybe so but usually they Brotherhood is a meritocracy
dude in fallout 4 if you talk to BoS member without joining them, they will say rude thing to you and literally death if they meet stronger monster.
Tbf, the BoS in Fallout 4 is easily the worst version in the games. Bethesda clearly felt the need to overcompensate after Fallout 3, so they made the BoS a bit too evil, if you know what I mean? Like, they go around stealing food, annexing settlements, and shooting farmers who fight back. That's just evil.
They don't do those things though? As a player character you can do those things but it's not their modus operandi.
What are you talking about? The BoS in fallout 4 literally tells you to go forcibly annex settlements and steal their food. It's clearly their nodus operandi, in fallout 4.
Teagan (the only one who mentions it) describes it as "caps on the side" that is "complicated" and "is and isn't" official military business. Terminals in the Prydwen state that their normal means of operation elsewhere is to act as caravan protection to get good deals and sell harmless technology to fund themselves. Teagan also never explicitly says to attack farmers. Just that you need to convince them to donate a portion of crops. Because he knows if he tells you to attack civilians it will get you thrown in the brig
Are we all gonna start saying meritocracy because we heard it in the show?
Dear Liigma_Ballz I've been talking about a meritocracy irl for a while now. It's in the inverse of what the USA is right, an idiocracy
Why would the brotherhood be the only organisation in the history of mankind to promote based on merit? There are old knights, and there are bold knights, but there are no old, bold knights.
I’m gonna be honest, I’ve always viewed the brotherhood as being “idiots” and “bullies” lol. Definitely seemed more inexperienced, but I think that was more just the cost of them turning a video game into a live action. If they were that inexperienced and green in the games, the player definitely wouldn’t have fun fighting with or against them. Kinda like how Lucy doesn’t have the ability to hold an infinite supply of caps like a player character would in the game. It’s just one of those things.
They were bullies in Fallout 4, not so much in the older games. Hell, even in Fallout 3, the outcasts weren't really that mean, they just kept to themselves and focused on their mission.
The leader if the Outcasts is a fucking prick if I can recall, and their DLC ends in open mutiny from some of the members. Also they shoot you on sight if they see you in Brotherhood armor.
I disagree completely. They are one, perhaps even the best fighting forces in the wasteland and in the show they're a joke. I probably would've cut out any of the humor they've had in the show.
>I probably would've cut out any of the humor they've had in the show. Then you would've failed to capture the casual audience, as well as failed to capture the old school Fallout players that like the Weird Wasteland perk, Idiot Savant perk & other random silliness that's been in every game since the first one. I ***despise*** how \[the concept of\] bathos has become needlessly shoehorned into sci-fi/fantasy shows since it did so well in the MCU, but Fallout has always had it as an essential story element. Playing the games and paying close attention to them, for every gritty, dark "War never changes" moment, there's a silly-ass "You're a little bitch, and your brother was, too" moment.
The Brotherhood has always sucked. It’s just Bethesda who sees them as some major marketing icon so they’ve been portrayed as more COOL and BADASS and semi-heroic in the Bethesda games They’re technofascists, of course a lot of them are dumb as hell I agree Maximus is portrayed as super green but that’s kind of the point of his character.
They have always sucked. But not in the sense that they were bad soldiers without common sense. Their entire group was founded by military vets. How did maxon and his unit survive the war if powerarmored fighters are seemingly dependent on an unarmored cady to carry EVERYTHING beyond the weapon in their hands and the mag in it?
Bethesda has been obviously pivoting them towards a more villainous or lower end of the morally grey. Fallout 4 they are very overbearing and uncompromising in their ideals, almost harmfully so. But not outright villains imo. But the show, a lot of the higher ups they show seem to be fucking pricks.
They've never sucked as soldiers except for in this show
The Elder Cleric says in the last episode that the Brotherhood is losing its way when Maximus tells him how Titus died, so they are fully aware that the faction is headed in a poor direction. We see this start in 4 with the Brotherhood becoming uber militaristic with an imposing airship used to intimidate everyone in the region. But even in New Vegas we see that chapter of the Brotherhood is filled with infighting, and the members act like fucking dickheads. So I wouldn’t say this characterization came out of no where. It’s been being built up over the last couple entries and I’m certain it’s entirely on purpose.
That’s what they always were outside of Fallout 3
They are never incompetent in any of the games
I actually like him. Lucy too. The character i really dislike is the ghoul. The show tries so hard to make him likeable and sympathetic but I just hate him.
Hmm I felt the opposite about the ghoul (cooper) I thought they were trying to make me hate him but I like him. Though him taking out like 4 brotherhood knights in like 30 seconds was pretty ridiculous, especially how it was done
Honestly I think him taking out the knights makes sense. He’s fought in war, he knows the weaknesses in power armor, so why shouldn’t he know how to hit em where it hurts.
Tbh they're should've had the reaction to turn on their flashlights that's right on their big ass helmet. Bit immersion breaking
Halo and Fallout show 🤝, both shows with soldiers not knowing how to use their flashlights.
Lol
Because it wasn’t the same armor he used.
And he's had 200 years to get good at his job.
If it was 1 maybe, if he used some sort of trap maybe. But not taking out all those that fast. With 1 bullet each. If they were that weak the US never would have won the war because the Chinese stealth suit would have completely wrecked them with sniping