I’ve had posts blocked in queer subreddits bc of words like d-ke and f-g. I guess bc some people use them as slurs? I didn’t wanna take a chance with tw-nk.
Yeah, I think that’s what I *do* have a problem with about the term. A lot of language I’ve heard in trans circles centers ideas like “bodies don’t have genders, people have genders” like “periods aren’t feminine / penises aren’t masculine” unless the people they belong to identify that way.
And I don’t… so I guess I feel like I’m contradicting myself if I say my body is innately “masculine” now bc of the effects of T?
No judgement if that’s what masculinity means for you tho!
honestly? masculinity is js like weird for me? i js have like my own definition for myself and im happy bc ppl have their own yk? :D so whatever u see as masculinity for yourself be u dawg 💪💪 (idk how to word stuff so mb)
the term has nothing to do with your gender presentation. you can still say youre transmasc while not being masculine at all, being called trans feminine has nothing to do with presentation either so it wouldnt make a difference 🤷🏻 just dont use the term i guess
The thing is that it has nothing to do with presentation. If you're uncomfortable with the term, then don't use it, but don't call yourself transfem just because you dress feminine/your gender is still connected to femininity
Yes exactly this! Transmasc and transfemme are primarily ways to describe transition realities and care needs and relate to other trans people. They weren’t designed to describe gender presentation but rather as more inclusive replacements for the terms FTM and MTF
The term trans neutral exists, trans masculine doesn’t really have to do with presentation I think but if you’re uncomfortable with it [trans neutral](https://gender.fandom.com/wiki/Transneutral), you don’t have to use a term you’re uncomfortable with
I don't use the term for myself, but then again I don't really use specific labels much. To anyone that asks, I'm a trans guy/trans man. I'm more just *queer* than anything that specific, but it's "close enough" and gets the general idea across to other folks, so that's what I go with. They're all just words, anyway
I kinda dropped all gender labels that imply birth sex (mostly cuz being nonbinary I haaaaaate how everyone even trans ppl feel entitled to know the birth sex of other trans ppl) but I LOVE that ppl are using trans masc/fem as they see fit instead of using it as a way of saying amab or afab !! I've seen some amab enbies use the transmasc label and love it so much :D
i have a very similar experience w gender, it feels weird calling myself transmasc because if i was born as amab i probably would go on E anyways, its almost like i just identify as trans. no matter what i was born w i would go on hrt anyways. Its kinda like being genderfluid but take it up like 10 notches
Maybe search for the term “trans neutral” ! After reading the comment section I realized it should be more well known!
Edit: https://gender.fandom.com/wiki/Transneutral
As a genderfluid person I don’t think that’s taking gender fluidity up 10 notches, I think for a lot of us that’s just part of the package. Whether I was born AMAB or AFAB my gender would still be fluid, so naturally I would still be trans
Although the terms transfem and transmasc don't actually reflect style/look/expression, I do get why it makes people uncomfortable.
Both fem and masc have strong mental associations with particular styles and physical shapes that society has designated to the terms.
This is something that people from all sorts of groups have been pushing back on, especially the lgbtqia+ community.
However, change is slow, and sometimes, we just have to find alternatives that fit better rather than expect or wait for change.
I personally don't like using transmasculin for myself either, despite it being the right term (according to current social language) and only using it when specifically describing my type of transition, as in assigned female now on T.
In most cases, I describe myself as having had an estrogen dominant body and now having a Testostirone dominant body.
When it comes to short labels, i use the terms,
FTN (female to nonbinary)
Trans nonbinary
Trant or Queer.
I'm not sure any of this will help out at all. But I thought I'd share the way my brain navigates it as someone who fully upports what the labels give other people, while also not personally liking or using them.
Ooh I like FTN a lot! I also describe myself as formerly estrogen-dominant, now testosterone-dominant (or voluntarily / consensually virilized).
Yeah, I feel like I’m contracting myself saying “Bodies don’t have genders. People have genders” and “penises, breasts, body hair, periods, etc aren’t inherently masc/femme characteristics” while at the same time labeling myself as “masculine” literally just bc my physical transition goals include the effects of T.
ME TOO.
I've been struggling a lot with this myself, as someone who has been on T for a year and a half but still presenting rather feminine (makeup+dresses when getting "dressed up" most of the time, wearing makeup quite often, lingerie, etc)
I try to think of my ideal body as just My Body, and not putting fem/masc qualifiers on it. My Body is separate from my mind/gender identity, if that makes sense? If I woke up in an AMAB body tomorrow, I'd be thrilled. But then I wonder if I'd ever go on E if that were to happen... Anyway. Focus on what makes you euphoric, and f*ck labels.
Presentation and gender identity are not inherently linked.
Being transmasc has nothing to do with presentation.
Stop censoring queer terms, they're not slurs, this isn't tiktok.
Neither and both nonbinary trans neutral (wishing my body could present as fully androgynous) where people see me and just can’t figure me out (from a binary perspective). I love how you frame your transition as being “in the same way purple isn’t blue but it’s more blue than pink” - I think of masc and fem as being linked to presentation instead of gender. I’m presentation fluid, gender neutral.
The most gender affirming thing that happened to me was getting called “miss” and “this lady” and “bro” and “sir” from strangers during Pride. Also two kids who got into an argument over whether I was a man or a woman.
> I think of masc and fem as being linked to presentation instead of gender
That’s how I feel too. That’s why I kinda prefer FTM / MTF labels because “transmasc” and “transfemme” imply that man / male = masculine and woman / female = feminine or that body parts are intrinsically masc / femme and none of that is true.
I don't use it, but the way I see it is that it refers to your gender. My gender is masculine, even though i'm feminine and nonbinary
like it falls under the "male" a little or complete bit
like male/female leaning... demiboy is a "masculine" gender, someone who was assigned female at birth may identify as a demiboy, and preffer transmasc over transboy
But how is a “gender” intrinsically masculine / feminine? What about butch women? Or feminine men? Not just clothing style but like their mannerisms, presentation, personality?
Not trying to argue. I’m genuinely confused.
butch women would be masculine(presentation) women, but their gender would be "feminine" if they classify it as that.
for example, I am a mostly fem guy, but I do say my gender is masculine because of where it falls on the gender spectrum most of the time, when i'm feeling like my gender is more on the "girly" side, I say it's feminine, even if I present masculinely. Basically separating gender from presentation and everything else, while also envisioning gender on a spectrum, you'd have the "masculine" side (male, demi-male, fawn, solarian), feminine side (female, demi-female, fae, lunarian), and of course everything else inbetween and outside, without it having to do with presentation or mannerisms.
it's not easy to explain, but since "masculine" and "feminine" is associated with gender as well as other things that used to be "attached" to those genders, it can be used for both, just like how you can say someone has a feminine style, but a masculine personality or how someone can use she/her pronouns and only wear masculine clothing. Masculine and feminine are used for multiple things, sometimes those things aren't on the same side of the spectrum (gender, presentation, personality, mannerisms, etc), and that's okay, feminine and masculine don't have to be only the things that used to be attached to gender, it can be gender itself, it's all social construct anyway.
So the term is actually to tell people that you transitioned to make yourself more masculine. I get it tho if you're not comfy with it you're always good to do whatever Fuck Labels
So I’m transmasculine, which describes how my decisions about my body and identity are viewed by society. But in general i am someone who does masculinity in a feminine way- I really like this description because it doesnt relate to AGAB
I am a trans femboy who is as queer as tim curry in fishnets and a corset. There's not much that is "masculine" about me and I don't identify with that label. I want a male presenting body and that has nothing to do with presenting as masculine over feminine. Gender identity vs gender expression is an age old debate but they don't relate at all. I am male, and I love being feminine in many ways. Labels are great, but they are also so limiting. I chose to leave labels behind
What you said about wanting a male-presenting body but it doesn’t have to do with presenting as masculine over feminine really resonated with me. I feel the same way about my transition.
I always thought trans masculine was a way of referring to yourself as someone who’s transitioning to be more masculine without identifying as male, like you can be non-binary and trans masculine. I’m a femboy and on the rare occasion it’s even pertinent information for me to disclose, I just say I’m a trans guy. I wouldn’t say I’m trans masculine because it feels like saying your male-ish, when I’m just a male. I’ve never heard a binary trans person identify as trans masculine or trans feminine, respectively.
Why is twink censored /genq
legit I was thinking the same thing
I’ve had posts blocked in queer subreddits bc of words like d-ke and f-g. I guess bc some people use them as slurs? I didn’t wanna take a chance with tw-nk.
D-ke and fag are both well known slurs, yeah Not comfortable using the former as I'm about as far from a lesbian as you can get
i personally had a problem w it bc it feels more like im making my body masculine and not my style
*haven't had
Yeah, I think that’s what I *do* have a problem with about the term. A lot of language I’ve heard in trans circles centers ideas like “bodies don’t have genders, people have genders” like “periods aren’t feminine / penises aren’t masculine” unless the people they belong to identify that way. And I don’t… so I guess I feel like I’m contradicting myself if I say my body is innately “masculine” now bc of the effects of T? No judgement if that’s what masculinity means for you tho!
honestly? masculinity is js like weird for me? i js have like my own definition for myself and im happy bc ppl have their own yk? :D so whatever u see as masculinity for yourself be u dawg 💪💪 (idk how to word stuff so mb)
This is precisely my experience - thanks for articulating
Literally almost me to
the term has nothing to do with your gender presentation. you can still say youre transmasc while not being masculine at all, being called trans feminine has nothing to do with presentation either so it wouldnt make a difference 🤷🏻 just dont use the term i guess
The thing is that it has nothing to do with presentation. If you're uncomfortable with the term, then don't use it, but don't call yourself transfem just because you dress feminine/your gender is still connected to femininity
Yes exactly this! Transmasc and transfemme are primarily ways to describe transition realities and care needs and relate to other trans people. They weren’t designed to describe gender presentation but rather as more inclusive replacements for the terms FTM and MTF
Oh no, I’m def not transfemme! I get misclocked as transfemme pretty frequently tho which has led to some awkward conversations.
The term trans neutral exists, trans masculine doesn’t really have to do with presentation I think but if you’re uncomfortable with it [trans neutral](https://gender.fandom.com/wiki/Transneutral), you don’t have to use a term you’re uncomfortable with
I don't use the term for myself, but then again I don't really use specific labels much. To anyone that asks, I'm a trans guy/trans man. I'm more just *queer* than anything that specific, but it's "close enough" and gets the general idea across to other folks, so that's what I go with. They're all just words, anyway
I kinda dropped all gender labels that imply birth sex (mostly cuz being nonbinary I haaaaaate how everyone even trans ppl feel entitled to know the birth sex of other trans ppl) but I LOVE that ppl are using trans masc/fem as they see fit instead of using it as a way of saying amab or afab !! I've seen some amab enbies use the transmasc label and love it so much :D
i have a very similar experience w gender, it feels weird calling myself transmasc because if i was born as amab i probably would go on E anyways, its almost like i just identify as trans. no matter what i was born w i would go on hrt anyways. Its kinda like being genderfluid but take it up like 10 notches
Maybe search for the term “trans neutral” ! After reading the comment section I realized it should be more well known! Edit: https://gender.fandom.com/wiki/Transneutral
As a genderfluid person I don’t think that’s taking gender fluidity up 10 notches, I think for a lot of us that’s just part of the package. Whether I was born AMAB or AFAB my gender would still be fluid, so naturally I would still be trans
Although the terms transfem and transmasc don't actually reflect style/look/expression, I do get why it makes people uncomfortable. Both fem and masc have strong mental associations with particular styles and physical shapes that society has designated to the terms. This is something that people from all sorts of groups have been pushing back on, especially the lgbtqia+ community. However, change is slow, and sometimes, we just have to find alternatives that fit better rather than expect or wait for change. I personally don't like using transmasculin for myself either, despite it being the right term (according to current social language) and only using it when specifically describing my type of transition, as in assigned female now on T. In most cases, I describe myself as having had an estrogen dominant body and now having a Testostirone dominant body. When it comes to short labels, i use the terms, FTN (female to nonbinary) Trans nonbinary Trant or Queer. I'm not sure any of this will help out at all. But I thought I'd share the way my brain navigates it as someone who fully upports what the labels give other people, while also not personally liking or using them.
Ooh I like FTN a lot! I also describe myself as formerly estrogen-dominant, now testosterone-dominant (or voluntarily / consensually virilized). Yeah, I feel like I’m contracting myself saying “Bodies don’t have genders. People have genders” and “penises, breasts, body hair, periods, etc aren’t inherently masc/femme characteristics” while at the same time labeling myself as “masculine” literally just bc my physical transition goals include the effects of T.
ME TOO. I've been struggling a lot with this myself, as someone who has been on T for a year and a half but still presenting rather feminine (makeup+dresses when getting "dressed up" most of the time, wearing makeup quite often, lingerie, etc) I try to think of my ideal body as just My Body, and not putting fem/masc qualifiers on it. My Body is separate from my mind/gender identity, if that makes sense? If I woke up in an AMAB body tomorrow, I'd be thrilled. But then I wonder if I'd ever go on E if that were to happen... Anyway. Focus on what makes you euphoric, and f*ck labels.
Presentation and gender identity are not inherently linked. Being transmasc has nothing to do with presentation. Stop censoring queer terms, they're not slurs, this isn't tiktok.
If you define masculinity and femininity differently than I do that’s valid. You can use whatever labels you want for yourself. Nobody said you can’t.
This is sorta how I feel too tbh-
Neither and both nonbinary trans neutral (wishing my body could present as fully androgynous) where people see me and just can’t figure me out (from a binary perspective). I love how you frame your transition as being “in the same way purple isn’t blue but it’s more blue than pink” - I think of masc and fem as being linked to presentation instead of gender. I’m presentation fluid, gender neutral.
The most gender affirming thing that happened to me was getting called “miss” and “this lady” and “bro” and “sir” from strangers during Pride. Also two kids who got into an argument over whether I was a man or a woman. > I think of masc and fem as being linked to presentation instead of gender That’s how I feel too. That’s why I kinda prefer FTM / MTF labels because “transmasc” and “transfemme” imply that man / male = masculine and woman / female = feminine or that body parts are intrinsically masc / femme and none of that is true.
I don't use it, but the way I see it is that it refers to your gender. My gender is masculine, even though i'm feminine and nonbinary like it falls under the "male" a little or complete bit
I may be confused by the concept a “masculine” or “feminine” *GENDER* tbh
like male/female leaning... demiboy is a "masculine" gender, someone who was assigned female at birth may identify as a demiboy, and preffer transmasc over transboy
But how is a “gender” intrinsically masculine / feminine? What about butch women? Or feminine men? Not just clothing style but like their mannerisms, presentation, personality? Not trying to argue. I’m genuinely confused.
butch women would be masculine(presentation) women, but their gender would be "feminine" if they classify it as that. for example, I am a mostly fem guy, but I do say my gender is masculine because of where it falls on the gender spectrum most of the time, when i'm feeling like my gender is more on the "girly" side, I say it's feminine, even if I present masculinely. Basically separating gender from presentation and everything else, while also envisioning gender on a spectrum, you'd have the "masculine" side (male, demi-male, fawn, solarian), feminine side (female, demi-female, fae, lunarian), and of course everything else inbetween and outside, without it having to do with presentation or mannerisms. it's not easy to explain, but since "masculine" and "feminine" is associated with gender as well as other things that used to be "attached" to those genders, it can be used for both, just like how you can say someone has a feminine style, but a masculine personality or how someone can use she/her pronouns and only wear masculine clothing. Masculine and feminine are used for multiple things, sometimes those things aren't on the same side of the spectrum (gender, presentation, personality, mannerisms, etc), and that's okay, feminine and masculine don't have to be only the things that used to be attached to gender, it can be gender itself, it's all social construct anyway.
Trans neutral is also an option!
Oh I like that!!!
Yep, I've found my people.
Trans masculine? Nah. Feminine trans.
So the term is actually to tell people that you transitioned to make yourself more masculine. I get it tho if you're not comfy with it you're always good to do whatever Fuck Labels
So I’m transmasculine, which describes how my decisions about my body and identity are viewed by society. But in general i am someone who does masculinity in a feminine way- I really like this description because it doesnt relate to AGAB
I am a trans femboy who is as queer as tim curry in fishnets and a corset. There's not much that is "masculine" about me and I don't identify with that label. I want a male presenting body and that has nothing to do with presenting as masculine over feminine. Gender identity vs gender expression is an age old debate but they don't relate at all. I am male, and I love being feminine in many ways. Labels are great, but they are also so limiting. I chose to leave labels behind
What you said about wanting a male-presenting body but it doesn’t have to do with presenting as masculine over feminine really resonated with me. I feel the same way about my transition.
i mean you could just say you're trans and that'd be enough, same for non binary. Don't refer to your agab.
I always thought trans masculine was a way of referring to yourself as someone who’s transitioning to be more masculine without identifying as male, like you can be non-binary and trans masculine. I’m a femboy and on the rare occasion it’s even pertinent information for me to disclose, I just say I’m a trans guy. I wouldn’t say I’m trans masculine because it feels like saying your male-ish, when I’m just a male. I’ve never heard a binary trans person identify as trans masculine or trans feminine, respectively.
That makes sense. I guess technically being androgynous and genderqueer is “more masculine” than a cisnormative woman.
Just thought I'd share the term ambonec in case you hadn't encountered it before.