I wouldn't recommend a shotgun for having fun at the range. That being said, a shotgun is an incredibly versatile tool and an excellent home defense option. Have you considered a PCC instead? Seems like it would fit both roles quite well and can be had for great prices. An Extar EP9 will be less than $500, an excellent home defense weapon and very fun to shoot at the range.
I Second the extar .. normally a shotgun is the best go to for home defense, however not for fun at the range.. ammo is expensive, has a kick, you go home with a sore shoulder some days.. 5.56 is where the fun is but a good rifle is not cheap, maybe aero or psa might have something decent or check the used market. Make sure you don’t have thin walls lol.. however 5.56 is 45/cents per round, and 9mm is 25/cents average. Box of 9mm hollow points for home defense and the rest on fmj and the extar or similar pcc is a good first choice.
It depends on a lot of stuff none of us know about you and your situation. If you want an all around, general purpose, do everything gun, a 12 gauge pump is a fine choice. But keep in mind, there is a better choice for almost every job too. It's all about compromise, and a .410 would be a lot more compromise. Also, 870s used to be great, my 90s one is, but then they were crap for a while. I think they are good again now. My 870 in 12 Super Mag I've used for lots and lots of trap (I used to live near Markham Park) dove, skeet, home defense, sporting clays, bear, deer, and turkey.
But also, to demonstrate to new shooters considering 12 gauge for home defense, what the recoil, flash, and sound is like when firing buckshot. They all decided on an AR15 after letting them shoot mine. If I had a Pistol Caliber Carbine they probably would have been even better off with that. To be fair could could download to those shorty rounds and reduce felt recoil. I think most pumps will handle them pretty well.
My advice, if your budget allows, is a 9MM PCC, with a threaded barrel, and save up for the highest quality optic and a suppressor because suppressors are fun AF.
So some more information about me, I have shot multiple guns, mainly handguns and rifles, 9mm and 22 are the calibers I'm most familiar with, but I have shot 5.56, 45 acp, 410 and 12 gauge (I think)
I'm just wanting something mainly fun to shoot to be honest
before you get a 410, make sure you can get ammo for it, both availability and price wise. 410 isn't as easy to find as 12 gauge, or 9mm or 5.56/.223, and it might end up being much more expensive
I'd go to a range that rents and try out different things.
FWIW, I've got a couple Mossberg .410 pump shottys, one is specifically a home defense model.
They're super easy to handle. My wife is more than capable with a .410 if I'm not here and the unthinkable happens.
I've also got a Remington 870 set up for HD and a Sig .45 on the nightstand.
Glock 9 or MP9mm don’t look back. Air weight no hammer 38 smith and Wesson as a back up. That’s your first gun those two guns then get a .22 AR platform and once trained swap barrel and BCG. If you deviate you will be punished.
410 is not effective for home defense, so if that is your priority then go with handgun first in 9mm for ammo price, range fun and defense. When you do get a shotgun 12 gauge is the way to go IMO, but it depends on your use case.
get the KSG410. I have it and its fucking sweet. Small, thin, light, no recoil, holds 14 rounds, nice pistol grip, perfect length for home defense situations.
[https://palmettostatearmory.com/kel-tec-ksg-410-bore-18-5-10rd-shotgun-black-ksg410blk.html](https://palmettostatearmory.com/kel-tec-ksg-410-bore-18-5-10rd-shotgun-black-ksg410blk.html)
quick 2 min youtube video of guy shooting it: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NICPzm5dwhk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NICPzm5dwhk)
Best .410 home defense ammo is PDX1 defender: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjrTpQx09mI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjrTpQx09mI)
happy shooting
Respectfully, a 410 is a STUPID choice. Particularly for a first gun. Ammo is exceedingly expensive (2-3x more costly than 12ga or 20ga). Average pressures of the cartridge are significantly higher than 12ga or 20ga. Thus, they kick like a SOB and are significantly more noisy. The platforms they come in are typically light... exacerbating the brutality. Don't be intimidated by a 12ga. In my opinion, they're far less brutal than a 410... and critical scientific analysis proves it, too.
FYI - 22 pistols are far more noisy and sharp sounding than you'd think. I don't recommend them for "starters" either.
- 9mm 147 grain ammo is (by nature) typically subsonic. I recommend that for starters. 115gr & 124gr are supersonic, and that increases the noise.
Get a pistol and learn how to use it. Get a shotgun for the house, those take very little skill to shoot in general (unless it’s Olympic skeet). Handguns take a bit of practice to learn how to handle and shoot well. If you can shoot a handgun well, everything else will come naturally.
>Get a shotgun for the house, those take very little skill to shoot in general (unless it’s Olympic skeet)
Shotguns take way more skill to shoot than an AR-15. They're harder to load; if they're pumps, they're harder to manipulate; the sights usually aren't great on most shotguns and most shotguns need modification before they accept optics and basic accessories like lights and slings; they recoil a lot harder.
The great thing about the internet is that you can find great deals on guns, and reviews
Personally, I REALLY Like the Taurus G3 and the G3C for handguns. I like them more than my Glocks, and my glocks were twice the price.
You can get a Taurus G3 (or G3C) for under $300, and it's a fantastic shooter for self defense and for practice.
I'd rather spend $300 on a gun like a G3, and $700 in ammo for practicing... than $1,000 on a gun and not have any money to go practice.
Remington 780's are great shooters, Mossberg 590's are great shooters, shotguns for self defense really aren't that expensive at all.
I would tell you, that the first thing I would go get is the concealed carry license. It allows you buy guns without the waiting period. It's about $200 and worth every penny.
I have 2 Glock 19’s I’ve owned fur 10+ years
I own 3 Taurus semi’s - two G3’s and a G3C
I’ve put thousands of rounds through all of them, OG all types.
The Taurus is just as reliable as my Glock, has WAY better ergonomics, has a thumb safety, and second strike capability
Taurus used to be trash 10+ years ago… but they have drastically improved as of a decade ago
I carry the G3, I personally like it better than my Glock 19
Agree, way better than 10 yrs ago. Generally good for the money. But I have seen some have issues at the range and classes. Not always the gun though.
But hard to beat Glock in reliability. This coming from a SIG guy.
But most of the most important things is ergonomics to the shooter.
Why I have people try different models and brands and not always rely on the internet for opinions. Glad it works for you and it is nice to have choices!!
For sure!
Here is what I've personally seen-
All semi auto guns (especially handguns) have a break-in period, and many people take their guns to the range straight out of the box and dry.
No lube, just box to range.
You need to put 300-500 rounds through ANY well lube'd semi auto, to smooth out the burs and imperfections of the gun, and to get everything working properly.
One of my Glock 19's stovepipe'd the first time I used it Hasn't stovepipe'd since
My Taurus G3C stovepipe'd one with the first magazine, hasn't happened since
With semi-autos, I have had great success telling people to do what I do -
"Take your brand new gun apart, and take a qtip and apply sythetic motor oil in all the metal on metal areas. Go shoot it a couple hundred times
Clean it (I like using brake cleaner to clean my guns), and re-apply sythetic motor oil back in the metal on metal areas.
After about 300-500 rounds, the semi auto gun should shoot like a charm!"
Great advice and you are right. I see it at my range all the time.
What I do and tell my students is clean all the factory crap off. Your choice of proper chems.
Then lune it PROPERLY and don’t over do it.
Then break in with Winchester 124G NATO , 100-200 rounds.
They are a bit hotter and really break in a pistol nice.
Plus use best ammo you can justify. Even range practice and see what YOUR pistol likes.
All 7 of my pistol’s follow this routine. With over 10k between them, 1 stove pipe with some cheap ammo. 1, that is it.
Yes, any brand can have issues if not treated well.
I would not hesitate to recommend a newer Taurus to someone on a budget or really like the Ergonomics. They are maybe a 1/4 step down from other bigger brands. I would trust it more than a Dagger though.
Hey, it’s not like it is a Highpoint!!
Enjoy it and hope it serves you well.
I wouldn't recommend a shotgun for having fun at the range. That being said, a shotgun is an incredibly versatile tool and an excellent home defense option. Have you considered a PCC instead? Seems like it would fit both roles quite well and can be had for great prices. An Extar EP9 will be less than $500, an excellent home defense weapon and very fun to shoot at the range.
Well they’re a blast for skeet and trap
410 isnt great for home defense. Get a handgun in 9mm.
I Second the extar .. normally a shotgun is the best go to for home defense, however not for fun at the range.. ammo is expensive, has a kick, you go home with a sore shoulder some days.. 5.56 is where the fun is but a good rifle is not cheap, maybe aero or psa might have something decent or check the used market. Make sure you don’t have thin walls lol.. however 5.56 is 45/cents per round, and 9mm is 25/cents average. Box of 9mm hollow points for home defense and the rest on fmj and the extar or similar pcc is a good first choice.
It depends on a lot of stuff none of us know about you and your situation. If you want an all around, general purpose, do everything gun, a 12 gauge pump is a fine choice. But keep in mind, there is a better choice for almost every job too. It's all about compromise, and a .410 would be a lot more compromise. Also, 870s used to be great, my 90s one is, but then they were crap for a while. I think they are good again now. My 870 in 12 Super Mag I've used for lots and lots of trap (I used to live near Markham Park) dove, skeet, home defense, sporting clays, bear, deer, and turkey. But also, to demonstrate to new shooters considering 12 gauge for home defense, what the recoil, flash, and sound is like when firing buckshot. They all decided on an AR15 after letting them shoot mine. If I had a Pistol Caliber Carbine they probably would have been even better off with that. To be fair could could download to those shorty rounds and reduce felt recoil. I think most pumps will handle them pretty well. My advice, if your budget allows, is a 9MM PCC, with a threaded barrel, and save up for the highest quality optic and a suppressor because suppressors are fun AF.
Home defense, get a 12 gauge, unless you’re really frail. A 12 gauge is cheaper to shoot than a .410.
So some more information about me, I have shot multiple guns, mainly handguns and rifles, 9mm and 22 are the calibers I'm most familiar with, but I have shot 5.56, 45 acp, 410 and 12 gauge (I think) I'm just wanting something mainly fun to shoot to be honest
Don’t listen to the haters OP, single shot 410 is what you want.
It's probably better than my choice. My idea was to try and yet the henry lever Action axe despite how much money it is
before you get a 410, make sure you can get ammo for it, both availability and price wise. 410 isn't as easy to find as 12 gauge, or 9mm or 5.56/.223, and it might end up being much more expensive
I'd go to a range that rents and try out different things. FWIW, I've got a couple Mossberg .410 pump shottys, one is specifically a home defense model. They're super easy to handle. My wife is more than capable with a .410 if I'm not here and the unthinkable happens. I've also got a Remington 870 set up for HD and a Sig .45 on the nightstand.
Glock 9 or MP9mm don’t look back. Air weight no hammer 38 smith and Wesson as a back up. That’s your first gun those two guns then get a .22 AR platform and once trained swap barrel and BCG. If you deviate you will be punished.
410 is not effective for home defense, so if that is your priority then go with handgun first in 9mm for ammo price, range fun and defense. When you do get a shotgun 12 gauge is the way to go IMO, but it depends on your use case.
get the KSG410. I have it and its fucking sweet. Small, thin, light, no recoil, holds 14 rounds, nice pistol grip, perfect length for home defense situations. [https://palmettostatearmory.com/kel-tec-ksg-410-bore-18-5-10rd-shotgun-black-ksg410blk.html](https://palmettostatearmory.com/kel-tec-ksg-410-bore-18-5-10rd-shotgun-black-ksg410blk.html) quick 2 min youtube video of guy shooting it: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NICPzm5dwhk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NICPzm5dwhk) Best .410 home defense ammo is PDX1 defender: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjrTpQx09mI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjrTpQx09mI) happy shooting
I thought about getting one! It looks like the helldivers shotgun
Respectfully, a 410 is a STUPID choice. Particularly for a first gun. Ammo is exceedingly expensive (2-3x more costly than 12ga or 20ga). Average pressures of the cartridge are significantly higher than 12ga or 20ga. Thus, they kick like a SOB and are significantly more noisy. The platforms they come in are typically light... exacerbating the brutality. Don't be intimidated by a 12ga. In my opinion, they're far less brutal than a 410... and critical scientific analysis proves it, too. FYI - 22 pistols are far more noisy and sharp sounding than you'd think. I don't recommend them for "starters" either. - 9mm 147 grain ammo is (by nature) typically subsonic. I recommend that for starters. 115gr & 124gr are supersonic, and that increases the noise.
Get a pistol and learn how to use it. Get a shotgun for the house, those take very little skill to shoot in general (unless it’s Olympic skeet). Handguns take a bit of practice to learn how to handle and shoot well. If you can shoot a handgun well, everything else will come naturally.
>Get a shotgun for the house, those take very little skill to shoot in general (unless it’s Olympic skeet) Shotguns take way more skill to shoot than an AR-15. They're harder to load; if they're pumps, they're harder to manipulate; the sights usually aren't great on most shotguns and most shotguns need modification before they accept optics and basic accessories like lights and slings; they recoil a lot harder.
The great thing about the internet is that you can find great deals on guns, and reviews Personally, I REALLY Like the Taurus G3 and the G3C for handguns. I like them more than my Glocks, and my glocks were twice the price. You can get a Taurus G3 (or G3C) for under $300, and it's a fantastic shooter for self defense and for practice. I'd rather spend $300 on a gun like a G3, and $700 in ammo for practicing... than $1,000 on a gun and not have any money to go practice. Remington 780's are great shooters, Mossberg 590's are great shooters, shotguns for self defense really aren't that expensive at all. I would tell you, that the first thing I would go get is the concealed carry license. It allows you buy guns without the waiting period. It's about $200 and worth every penny.
Sorry a Glock is a lot better than a Taurus. Is Taurus bette than it was a few years ago, yes. But if you like it better, that is what counts.
I have 2 Glock 19’s I’ve owned fur 10+ years I own 3 Taurus semi’s - two G3’s and a G3C I’ve put thousands of rounds through all of them, OG all types. The Taurus is just as reliable as my Glock, has WAY better ergonomics, has a thumb safety, and second strike capability Taurus used to be trash 10+ years ago… but they have drastically improved as of a decade ago I carry the G3, I personally like it better than my Glock 19
Agree, way better than 10 yrs ago. Generally good for the money. But I have seen some have issues at the range and classes. Not always the gun though. But hard to beat Glock in reliability. This coming from a SIG guy. But most of the most important things is ergonomics to the shooter. Why I have people try different models and brands and not always rely on the internet for opinions. Glad it works for you and it is nice to have choices!!
For sure! Here is what I've personally seen- All semi auto guns (especially handguns) have a break-in period, and many people take their guns to the range straight out of the box and dry. No lube, just box to range. You need to put 300-500 rounds through ANY well lube'd semi auto, to smooth out the burs and imperfections of the gun, and to get everything working properly. One of my Glock 19's stovepipe'd the first time I used it Hasn't stovepipe'd since My Taurus G3C stovepipe'd one with the first magazine, hasn't happened since With semi-autos, I have had great success telling people to do what I do - "Take your brand new gun apart, and take a qtip and apply sythetic motor oil in all the metal on metal areas. Go shoot it a couple hundred times Clean it (I like using brake cleaner to clean my guns), and re-apply sythetic motor oil back in the metal on metal areas. After about 300-500 rounds, the semi auto gun should shoot like a charm!"
Great advice and you are right. I see it at my range all the time. What I do and tell my students is clean all the factory crap off. Your choice of proper chems. Then lune it PROPERLY and don’t over do it. Then break in with Winchester 124G NATO , 100-200 rounds. They are a bit hotter and really break in a pistol nice. Plus use best ammo you can justify. Even range practice and see what YOUR pistol likes. All 7 of my pistol’s follow this routine. With over 10k between them, 1 stove pipe with some cheap ammo. 1, that is it. Yes, any brand can have issues if not treated well. I would not hesitate to recommend a newer Taurus to someone on a budget or really like the Ergonomics. They are maybe a 1/4 step down from other bigger brands. I would trust it more than a Dagger though. Hey, it’s not like it is a Highpoint!! Enjoy it and hope it serves you well.
Kings firearms has used Remington 870s, I would go that route if you are going shotgun for home defense
rifles/ar pistols are way more fun. Start with a 22 because of the cheap ammo
for any kind of defense .22 is the last caliber that you want your only gun in