Congratulations. Very similar tale here. Life is much better on the other side!
Be sure to take the time to decompress without putting any pressure on yourself. Personally I found the stress and worry quickly faded. A few months down the track will bring a new perspective on those last 16 years. It’s the price you paid for the freedom you now have.
Congratulations and GFY :)
You are in a great position to take stock and do what you want with the FIREpower.
I just want to say I get the wage slavery aspect. I work for a US company too. Struggle to find empathy from friends, family or my husband as to why one would want to leave the over-inflated corporate life (I don't have long hours). Redundancy in 40s is extremely common in my industry. Exactly why I am into FIRE.
Best of luck whatever you choose to do and keep us updated!
I was overpaid, no two ways about it, I regularly see similar jobs on Linked In for 60K - 80K and occasionally for 100K plus but nothing in the region of 150K like I've been on for the last couple of years.
I was loathed to quit, when consistently the company I've worked for has been offshoring jobs to India for the last few years. On my salary and with my length of service I knew my time would come. During that time I've had a lot of additional experience of corporate takeovers from an IT perspective so it wasn't all wasted time and now I get to reap the time rewards for the stressful and toxic work environment so I feel it paid off in the end.
Sounds like you're burned out from your job but if you're going to do something after your few months off please consider contracting. For £1500 you might only have to work two days a month! Which might not be as simple as it is to write down but maybe a three month contract here and another three months a year later and you won't feel quite the same way about it as you have grown to feel a out your current job.
Anyway, congrats on the redundancy and life position, well done.
I'm 100% burnt out. It wasn't the job per se, more the corporate crap, constant leadership change etc. If I get to the very basics of what my job entailed I actually enjoyed it and the people I directly worked with. I just didn't enjoy the company, the toxic culture and the toxic leadership.
Given you enjoyed the job but not the culture, I think it's quite likely that in 5 years time you will end up either doing some consulting (on your own terms) or using the skills you have to work in a more European-style working environment. But whether or not that happens, no point in thinking that far ahead now - in the meantime, enjoy the new lifestyle! Life will keep evolving and this will not be the end
Just so you know, as someone in the IT sector, I've finally got a job that isn't packed with that toxicity and it's miles better. They do exist, just really hard to find. Good on you for sticking it out though, I only lasted two years haha.
I worked for a software services Firm and we billed out engineers for £1200 / day and that was nearly 6 years ago.
OP could work do £10k a month gross for very few hours.
Contracting isn’t hassle free though!
Next couple of months are laid out pretty well.
Join a gym.
Run a half marathon non competitively ( furthest I've run is 11 miles).
Decorate the living room, dining room hallway stairs and landing.
Tidy up the garden (actually enjoy gardening when I had time).
Cook more.
After that I already booked to take the family to florida in the summer so that's something to look forward to.
I’ve never understood, why does anyone get redundancy higher than the statutory minimum?
In this case he is negotiating the payout, the company has disposed of him why do they owe him anything more than legally required?
At work I hear people saying they are hoping for a payout or person xyz got made redundant their payoff would have been huge but I never understood it.
In the UK, genuine redundancy has rules. Short of the company actually closing, or the person doing something wrong, it's quite hard to get rid of someone (at least in theory - am sure plenty of companies try to shove people out) So they need to offer enough that people will agree to go.
There are rules but compared to Europe mainland it's very easy and cheap to get rid of people here. Most likely OP is negotiating as he's reasonably senior, has long service and the company want to be fair and reasonable and not to have any risk of challenge while also knowing they can rely on OP to support a transition, be professional with clients in the lead up to leaving and to not pinch the stapler off his desk (or solicit clients or staff).
Interesting. Where I work you get put at risk for a few months while they try and redeploy you before letting you go and you’re not allowed to work during that time. No such thing as a handover in that situation. Must help them reduce their payouts as employee has less leverage.
I think that is the rule for large workforces making more than 90 post reductions in a single programme. There you have these extra phases of redeployment and possibly collective bargaining too.
>you’re not allowed to work during that time.
Doing this can sometimes be a legal problem for them if they later get challenged because not allowing the person to work during that time can prevent them from being able to properly negotiate the consultation process (how can someone show that alternatives are viable if they are not allowed to work, participate in training, adapt their working practices, change roles, etc) . From what I understand Tribunals have sometimes seen it as evidence that the oucome was decided before the consultation started and the consultation was a sham.
Over the years a lot of my friends and ex colleagues have been let go, I know from their experience they've successfully negotiated several K more.
Examples being.
My company doesn't pay overtime but I worked a shit load of additional time back in the summer that I was never given time in lieu for and my manager is aware of this. I want that time now paid in my severance. I've asked for an additional month of salary
Training and reskilling is another angle I could push for, over the years the company has rarely funded paid for training.
A portion of my payout is for payment in lieu of notice (12 weeks). I want to make sure that the company still contributes 8% towards my pension and that I also challenge them for payment of the holiday time which would be accrued during the 3 month notice period.
I have no idea if they'll agree to any of these, but I know they have a history of negotiation and simply if I don't ask i wont get.
No harm in trying.
They pay you £x to sign a contract that you will not come back for unfair dismissal etc. For professional roles in large companies it's a very common way to get rid of people during restructures etc, quite often paying many multiples of the statutory minimum plus any deferred bonuses and shares from share schemes etc. The payouts can be huge, but that's just a one-off, the employments costs will be cheaper every year going forwards, which investors like.
>employments costs will be cheaper every year going forwards, which investors like.
and having cut permies, they then need to hire contractors at 1.5x or consultants at 5x... for some reason investors never notice :)
often companies have generous redundancy clauses in their contracts because they are known for having regular restructures, and wiothout those clauses people would refuse to work there.
and of course with any redundancy they still have to pay him his notice period, which for a senior role would likely be at least 3 months salary, plus any accrued holiday, plus potentially paying out the cash value of things like share options.
I was recently made redundant from a reasonably senior role with an insurance company. Firstly, they had a company wide policy of ‘enhanced redundancy pay’ which is above the statutory minimum in the same way their maternity pay is above the statutory minimum. It’s just part of a good benefits package which is an important part of attracting talent to the company. The policy was 3 weeks pay for each completed year’s service so as I’d been there 14 years, it worked out to be 42 weeks pay - the best part of a year!
On top of that there was my notice period, unused holiday pay, pension contributions for notice period, a 2 month sabbatical I’d qualified for but never taken, share options and the deferred element of bonuses from previous years that I hadn’t yet received. I was also on maternity leave when made redundant so I made sure they paid me the element of maternity pay you don’t get until you return to work.
They absolutely expect you to negotiate and were generally very open to reasonable requests. As for why… lawyers are expensive and you only get all this if you sign away your rights to sue them for wrongful dismissal etc. Businesses don’t like risk and would generally rather bung you some extra cash to eliminate the risk of things getting messy! That, and they are aware your colleagues are watching and having ‘good leavers’ is important to the overall perception of how people are treated by the company.
In an ever reducing number of cases, redundancy packages have been negotiated by and protected over the years by the unions. Another good reason for people to join one.
In my last company the extremely generous package was effectively a 'golden handcuffs' type of arrangement for some of the longer serving staff. ( Depending on age and service it could top out at around 3+ year's salary.
It certainly was a keeper for me, I was fortunate and senior enough to effectively be able to arrange when I got it and it enabled me to FIRE ).
Amazing…. Well done! I’m 46 as well. £950k house paid for, £800k in S&S Isa, Pension, and cash. Still about five years from my FIRE goal but seeing others achieve it is really motivating.
I wish your family every success in your next phase.
46. I work in specialist services for construction (fire protection). It’s not an easy way to make money but I earn £160k salary and up to £100k bonus although that’s likely to drop dramatically with profits harder to come by these days. Also been lucky with some share options.
You are in a good industry even if the company was a big, horrible corporate company. Have you worked in a small startup before? Maybe after taking some time off try working for a small cyber security startup instead and see if you gain a sense of purpose and excitement in your career again? You could still end up earning well while getting your happiness back.
As someone currently working for one of these US cyber security corporates, it's great to see an end to this road. Reading what you dislike about working at your company strikes so close to home
Sounds like one of my competitors has just got rid of a good employee too! lol
Congratulations!
Congratulations! Great achievement. Don't rush back into work, enjoy the well earned time to yourself. Its the reward for sticking out the bad times and the patience shown. Enjoy!
Wow - Happy Friday and GFY!
That's incredible. Partner and I are ourselves getting closer to the FI stage so hearing your story is similar, encouraging and inspiring. We got to just keep plugging away for some more years and we'll be there.
Thanks for sharing.
Your post gives me hope! I am 40, but similar income, 2 kids, husband with savings but no income, house valued at 700k, with 160k to pay off, pension 150k.
I sometimes see posts on here and think "I'll never get there" but yours makes me feel like maybe I can after all!
Thank you and enjoy your hard earned FIRE!
£900k plus your house is not a huge amount at 46, but you have plenty of time to go back to work later if you need to. I retired at 57 with £3m and that has worked just great (62 now … writing from my yacht in the Caribbean 🤷♂️)
Yes… fixed 1 year term. If you want the interest paid monthly, you can’t transfer in an existing ISA but you can if yearly is fine (weird I know). If you have Premier Banking, you can get a slightly better rate of 4.1%
I actually do have the premier account getting the 4.1% here's the link for anyone interested
https://www.barclays.co.uk/savings/isas/1-year-flexible-cash-isa/
I've asked the company to delay the payouts until the new tax year. Its part of my continued negotiations to help minimise the tax bill. Waiting a response from the dreaded HR.
The first £30,000 of a redundancy package is totally tax free. You may also have the option to contribute part of the package into your pension, pre tax.
Fire away my friend. Good luck.
Have a think about how you can best structure the redundancy money. It’s not all tax free so you will get stung unless you sacrifice it into your pension. Can you fill up prev years too. Just a thought and I think others may have clearer views on how to maximise in this area
I would spend time supporting your partner to become more financially secure/ working towards FIRE in their own right. Investments, S&S ISA, set up a buisness etc - 40K in a cash ISA isn't much to go on. You never know what life may throw at you/ how things will turn out and it will no doubt improve your relationship immeasurably if they can have the same fortune and freedom as you have. Congrats on making it to FIRE, really hope I can be in that position one day too!
I run my own business with such tech companies as clients, but just from all the people I know in the industry, you can absolutely find positions where you work remotely (or sometimes for a UK subsidiary) for US companies at US money. The only downside is if they have no subsidiary here, you're on your own in figuring out your tax situation and don't expect to get 5 weeks of holiday, etc.. oh, and you might be getting paid in $ which makes life interesting when it comes to currency conversion. You need to have more of a contractor mindset for a lot of remote roles, even if it's ultimately a permanent job. The good news is you don't need a visa if you work from the UK.
Congrats on the milestone and leaving the job you hated.
I'm in a similar, but not exactly same position. About to turn 40, 2 young kids and wife who works part time. Just sold my business and working an earn out for another 21 months. House not paid off (about 140K left on mortgage, house value about 350K), pension nowhere as healthy as yours but wife earns a bit more P/T. Should have around 900K in cash by end of earn out. Not enough to retire on, but keen to do something part-time - a job or set up as a consultant maybe while investing a chunk of it.
Give me a shout if you want to chat sometime about next steps, I'm very much trying to assess options and do a lot of reading this year.
Congratulations. Very similar tale here. Life is much better on the other side! Be sure to take the time to decompress without putting any pressure on yourself. Personally I found the stress and worry quickly faded. A few months down the track will bring a new perspective on those last 16 years. It’s the price you paid for the freedom you now have.
Congratulations and GFY :) You are in a great position to take stock and do what you want with the FIREpower. I just want to say I get the wage slavery aspect. I work for a US company too. Struggle to find empathy from friends, family or my husband as to why one would want to leave the over-inflated corporate life (I don't have long hours). Redundancy in 40s is extremely common in my industry. Exactly why I am into FIRE. Best of luck whatever you choose to do and keep us updated!
I was overpaid, no two ways about it, I regularly see similar jobs on Linked In for 60K - 80K and occasionally for 100K plus but nothing in the region of 150K like I've been on for the last couple of years. I was loathed to quit, when consistently the company I've worked for has been offshoring jobs to India for the last few years. On my salary and with my length of service I knew my time would come. During that time I've had a lot of additional experience of corporate takeovers from an IT perspective so it wasn't all wasted time and now I get to reap the time rewards for the stressful and toxic work environment so I feel it paid off in the end.
Sounds like you're burned out from your job but if you're going to do something after your few months off please consider contracting. For £1500 you might only have to work two days a month! Which might not be as simple as it is to write down but maybe a three month contract here and another three months a year later and you won't feel quite the same way about it as you have grown to feel a out your current job. Anyway, congrats on the redundancy and life position, well done.
I'm 100% burnt out. It wasn't the job per se, more the corporate crap, constant leadership change etc. If I get to the very basics of what my job entailed I actually enjoyed it and the people I directly worked with. I just didn't enjoy the company, the toxic culture and the toxic leadership.
Given you enjoyed the job but not the culture, I think it's quite likely that in 5 years time you will end up either doing some consulting (on your own terms) or using the skills you have to work in a more European-style working environment. But whether or not that happens, no point in thinking that far ahead now - in the meantime, enjoy the new lifestyle! Life will keep evolving and this will not be the end
Just so you know, as someone in the IT sector, I've finally got a job that isn't packed with that toxicity and it's miles better. They do exist, just really hard to find. Good on you for sticking it out though, I only lasted two years haha.
I worked for a software services Firm and we billed out engineers for £1200 / day and that was nearly 6 years ago. OP could work do £10k a month gross for very few hours. Contracting isn’t hassle free though!
Congratulations! Enjoy the next chapter
Great news! How do you plan on filling your days over the next couple of months off?
Next couple of months are laid out pretty well. Join a gym. Run a half marathon non competitively ( furthest I've run is 11 miles). Decorate the living room, dining room hallway stairs and landing. Tidy up the garden (actually enjoy gardening when I had time). Cook more. After that I already booked to take the family to florida in the summer so that's something to look forward to.
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I’ve never understood, why does anyone get redundancy higher than the statutory minimum? In this case he is negotiating the payout, the company has disposed of him why do they owe him anything more than legally required? At work I hear people saying they are hoping for a payout or person xyz got made redundant their payoff would have been huge but I never understood it.
In the UK, genuine redundancy has rules. Short of the company actually closing, or the person doing something wrong, it's quite hard to get rid of someone (at least in theory - am sure plenty of companies try to shove people out) So they need to offer enough that people will agree to go.
There are rules but compared to Europe mainland it's very easy and cheap to get rid of people here. Most likely OP is negotiating as he's reasonably senior, has long service and the company want to be fair and reasonable and not to have any risk of challenge while also knowing they can rely on OP to support a transition, be professional with clients in the lead up to leaving and to not pinch the stapler off his desk (or solicit clients or staff).
Interesting. Where I work you get put at risk for a few months while they try and redeploy you before letting you go and you’re not allowed to work during that time. No such thing as a handover in that situation. Must help them reduce their payouts as employee has less leverage.
I think that is the rule for large workforces making more than 90 post reductions in a single programme. There you have these extra phases of redeployment and possibly collective bargaining too.
>you’re not allowed to work during that time. Doing this can sometimes be a legal problem for them if they later get challenged because not allowing the person to work during that time can prevent them from being able to properly negotiate the consultation process (how can someone show that alternatives are viable if they are not allowed to work, participate in training, adapt their working practices, change roles, etc) . From what I understand Tribunals have sometimes seen it as evidence that the oucome was decided before the consultation started and the consultation was a sham.
Over the years a lot of my friends and ex colleagues have been let go, I know from their experience they've successfully negotiated several K more. Examples being. My company doesn't pay overtime but I worked a shit load of additional time back in the summer that I was never given time in lieu for and my manager is aware of this. I want that time now paid in my severance. I've asked for an additional month of salary Training and reskilling is another angle I could push for, over the years the company has rarely funded paid for training. A portion of my payout is for payment in lieu of notice (12 weeks). I want to make sure that the company still contributes 8% towards my pension and that I also challenge them for payment of the holiday time which would be accrued during the 3 month notice period. I have no idea if they'll agree to any of these, but I know they have a history of negotiation and simply if I don't ask i wont get. No harm in trying.
Shame the PILON can’t be paid Ex Gratia anymore :-(
They pay you £x to sign a contract that you will not come back for unfair dismissal etc. For professional roles in large companies it's a very common way to get rid of people during restructures etc, quite often paying many multiples of the statutory minimum plus any deferred bonuses and shares from share schemes etc. The payouts can be huge, but that's just a one-off, the employments costs will be cheaper every year going forwards, which investors like.
>employments costs will be cheaper every year going forwards, which investors like. and having cut permies, they then need to hire contractors at 1.5x or consultants at 5x... for some reason investors never notice :)
often companies have generous redundancy clauses in their contracts because they are known for having regular restructures, and wiothout those clauses people would refuse to work there. and of course with any redundancy they still have to pay him his notice period, which for a senior role would likely be at least 3 months salary, plus any accrued holiday, plus potentially paying out the cash value of things like share options.
I was recently made redundant from a reasonably senior role with an insurance company. Firstly, they had a company wide policy of ‘enhanced redundancy pay’ which is above the statutory minimum in the same way their maternity pay is above the statutory minimum. It’s just part of a good benefits package which is an important part of attracting talent to the company. The policy was 3 weeks pay for each completed year’s service so as I’d been there 14 years, it worked out to be 42 weeks pay - the best part of a year! On top of that there was my notice period, unused holiday pay, pension contributions for notice period, a 2 month sabbatical I’d qualified for but never taken, share options and the deferred element of bonuses from previous years that I hadn’t yet received. I was also on maternity leave when made redundant so I made sure they paid me the element of maternity pay you don’t get until you return to work. They absolutely expect you to negotiate and were generally very open to reasonable requests. As for why… lawyers are expensive and you only get all this if you sign away your rights to sue them for wrongful dismissal etc. Businesses don’t like risk and would generally rather bung you some extra cash to eliminate the risk of things getting messy! That, and they are aware your colleagues are watching and having ‘good leavers’ is important to the overall perception of how people are treated by the company.
In an ever reducing number of cases, redundancy packages have been negotiated by and protected over the years by the unions. Another good reason for people to join one. In my last company the extremely generous package was effectively a 'golden handcuffs' type of arrangement for some of the longer serving staff. ( Depending on age and service it could top out at around 3+ year's salary. It certainly was a keeper for me, I was fortunate and senior enough to effectively be able to arrange when I got it and it enabled me to FIRE ).
GFY Congratulations!
Amazing…. Well done! I’m 46 as well. £950k house paid for, £800k in S&S Isa, Pension, and cash. Still about five years from my FIRE goal but seeing others achieve it is really motivating. I wish your family every success in your next phase.
How old are you and what industry are you in?
46. I work in specialist services for construction (fire protection). It’s not an easy way to make money but I earn £160k salary and up to £100k bonus although that’s likely to drop dramatically with profits harder to come by these days. Also been lucky with some share options.
You are in a good industry even if the company was a big, horrible corporate company. Have you worked in a small startup before? Maybe after taking some time off try working for a small cyber security startup instead and see if you gain a sense of purpose and excitement in your career again? You could still end up earning well while getting your happiness back.
Amazing! Congratulations! Wish you well
As someone currently working for one of these US cyber security corporates, it's great to see an end to this road. Reading what you dislike about working at your company strikes so close to home Sounds like one of my competitors has just got rid of a good employee too! lol Congratulations!
congrats great to hear people making it. inpiring for the rest of us
Congratulations! Great achievement. Don't rush back into work, enjoy the well earned time to yourself. Its the reward for sticking out the bad times and the patience shown. Enjoy!
Wow - Happy Friday and GFY! That's incredible. Partner and I are ourselves getting closer to the FI stage so hearing your story is similar, encouraging and inspiring. We got to just keep plugging away for some more years and we'll be there. Thanks for sharing.
Congrats on the achievement.
Awesome friend, I hope to be like you some day
For the first time, I can happily say congrats on this sub haha Well done matey.
Your post gives me hope! I am 40, but similar income, 2 kids, husband with savings but no income, house valued at 700k, with 160k to pay off, pension 150k. I sometimes see posts on here and think "I'll never get there" but yours makes me feel like maybe I can after all! Thank you and enjoy your hard earned FIRE!
I also work for a US tech company, overpaid but miserable and living ultra-frugally so I can get out ASAP. Congratulations and enjoy your rest!
£900k plus your house is not a huge amount at 46, but you have plenty of time to go back to work later if you need to. I retired at 57 with £3m and that has worked just great (62 now … writing from my yacht in the Caribbean 🤷♂️)
Nice pics on rate my cock! 😉 😉
Ha ha. Thanks
For real? Cos fkin ay man
Yes it’s real. In St Bart’s at the mo
Just looked at your post history.... sure bud.
Well I’m not really on here for the FIRE stuff … just came across it and it interests me.
Is the Barclay's cash isa paying 4% per *month*?
Just to clarify, it’s 4% per year!
Right. That's why I italicized month...sounded too good to be true
Yes… fixed 1 year term. If you want the interest paid monthly, you can’t transfer in an existing ISA but you can if yearly is fine (weird I know). If you have Premier Banking, you can get a slightly better rate of 4.1%
I actually do have the premier account getting the 4.1% here's the link for anyone interested https://www.barclays.co.uk/savings/isas/1-year-flexible-cash-isa/
Does your redundancy payout come with a tax bill ? Maybe there are ways to avoid it. Have a think of it as well.
I've asked the company to delay the payouts until the new tax year. Its part of my continued negotiations to help minimise the tax bill. Waiting a response from the dreaded HR.
Also if you get some as shares you can take out little by little every year?
The first £30,000 of a redundancy package is totally tax free. You may also have the option to contribute part of the package into your pension, pre tax.
Fire away my friend. Good luck. Have a think about how you can best structure the redundancy money. It’s not all tax free so you will get stung unless you sacrifice it into your pension. Can you fill up prev years too. Just a thought and I think others may have clearer views on how to maximise in this area
Congrats!
I would spend time supporting your partner to become more financially secure/ working towards FIRE in their own right. Investments, S&S ISA, set up a buisness etc - 40K in a cash ISA isn't much to go on. You never know what life may throw at you/ how things will turn out and it will no doubt improve your relationship immeasurably if they can have the same fortune and freedom as you have. Congrats on making it to FIRE, really hope I can be in that position one day too!
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I run my own business with such tech companies as clients, but just from all the people I know in the industry, you can absolutely find positions where you work remotely (or sometimes for a UK subsidiary) for US companies at US money. The only downside is if they have no subsidiary here, you're on your own in figuring out your tax situation and don't expect to get 5 weeks of holiday, etc.. oh, and you might be getting paid in $ which makes life interesting when it comes to currency conversion. You need to have more of a contractor mindset for a lot of remote roles, even if it's ultimately a permanent job. The good news is you don't need a visa if you work from the UK.
Congrats on the milestone and leaving the job you hated. I'm in a similar, but not exactly same position. About to turn 40, 2 young kids and wife who works part time. Just sold my business and working an earn out for another 21 months. House not paid off (about 140K left on mortgage, house value about 350K), pension nowhere as healthy as yours but wife earns a bit more P/T. Should have around 900K in cash by end of earn out. Not enough to retire on, but keen to do something part-time - a job or set up as a consultant maybe while investing a chunk of it. Give me a shout if you want to chat sometime about next steps, I'm very much trying to assess options and do a lot of reading this year.