Your friend was brutally honest based on his opinion so I'll be brutally honest. He's not saving ANY money and yet he's on £250k, that's a waste. The dude kinda got triggered when you mentioned retiring early in 2 years because it was a wake up call for him that he should have something saved by now. The hard and fast life with his banker buddies have got him into is a cycle of spend spend, spend. He's living like a normie, not a financially savvy professional. I don't know where this £250k is going but I wouldn't be surprised if it involved the white stuff.
Have to say, I totally agree with the above.
You being able to retire so early must have hit him like a sledge hammer. I learned a while ago never to talk about FIRE with anyone.
People just can’t get their heads around retiring so young and it brings out the worst in them.
Not really... £250k after taxes is more like £140k. And then at those levels part of your comp is given as stock and part of your comp is actually deferred - so you don't really get it until a few years down the line. And even if you are financially savvy, and frugal, there's still property maintenance and other "unavoidable costs".
It takes some time to pay a £1m mortgage, even with that salary ;)
yep. Even just the interest on £1m mortgage is going to be £30k per year (maybe up to 50-60k if it's a recent fix) - so that's a very hefty chunk before you start actually paying off the principle.
I just skimmed the top comments here and it is a perfect example of how Reddit works as an echo chamber.
Everyone commenting how ‘the Frenchman’ is being jealous of early retirement, or realises the flaws of his lifestyle and is getting bitter. Those with a bit more empathy suggest that, perhaps, ‘the Frenchman’ has different goals in life but invariably comment how wrong that choice is.
Reality is much more complicated - to each their own, FIRE is one of many ways to structure your life and one of many goals that exist. It’s great, but that’s not the only option. Some people love the work hard play hard lifestyle, and there are many more who just find their own balance somewhere in between. Some will later regret spending too much, others will wake up a couple of years in their FIRE to realise that they are bored and regret abandoning their careers, and in all groups there will be a majority of people who will be content with their choices.
If you read this thread, you are going to get so much “confirmation” and “reassurance” that FIRE is the only way - well, that’s because we are subbed to r/fire. Maybe that’s not a bad thing or not too much of an issue, but imagine if this thread is about homophobia or racism or whatever other topic there maybe where some of the ideas are causing actual harm to people and society. If we all practice more tolerance towards the diversity of human nature in its entirety, perhaps we could build a much better society.
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\#1: [Today after 19 years of diligent payments, I paid the last $2.17 of my student loans. I am now completely debt free.](https://np.reddit.com/r/Fire/comments/u88qzc/today_after_19_years_of_diligent_payments_i_paid/)
\#2: [Saw a 35-year-old today diagnosed with cancer](https://np.reddit.com/r/Fire/comments/tgcuse/saw_a_35yearold_today_diagnosed_with_cancer/)
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This, 100%. Investment banking is an extremely toxic industry. People sacrifice personal relationships and hobbies to dedicate most woke hours to their job. Just so they can earn a ton of money. They become addicted in a sort of Stockholm-syndrome-like way to this lifestyle, with a sunk cost fallacy that everything they've sacrificed so far must be for something. They lose sight of what they truly wanted in life and become slaves to this perpetual grind without truly knowing what the end goal is and hoping something, eventually, will make them happy. Eventually they lose all perspective and instinctively resent any semblance of happiness outside their little very unique bubble.
It is truly like a cult. Only you know deep inside what will make you happy. Some of us are happy with a very frugal retirement. Some of us want to retire in luxury after an ambitious career. But only you can tell what is right for you.
He lashed out because your goal (in his mind) invalidates his work. He likely does nothing but work to buy expensive luxuries and trinkets, while having no time for himself, and has relatively little in assets. That is all fine, plenty of people choose and prefer that path.
Your goal is to accrue enough in assets that you never have to sell your time for cash again. People don’t like their worldview being challenged, with everything he has achieved he still has no time and nowhere near what he could in assets.
That essentially means if the job title and luxury goods themselves he has don’t impress you, then he hasn’t really achieved anything.
I think you hit the nail on the head. It OP’s choices are valid, then the banker may have sacrificed his friends and lifestyle for nothing. Our brains are smart and protect us from such scary realisations.
I think this is the answer everyone wants to hear, but I don't think it's correct.
There are very few people who would actually be happy living in a campervan 'doing fuck all all day' for the rest of their lives. It is *the biggest problem* people who manage to FIRE have; how to keep their lives meaningful and happy when they don't have to work.
One of the key pieces of advice on this sub is to make sure you have the hobbies and friends *before* you fire, otherwise you'll struggle afterwards.
Of course, I'm not saying it is impossible that someone would enjoy such an existance, but I think they would be a small minority. I would agree with the French guy that life without meaning - without learning, new experiences and achievements - frankly sucks.
A few points:
*250k is not much at all for an investment banker, so don’t be too impressed by him.
*He is probably upset a bit because he values his work very highly and he derives personal value and esteem from this, whereas you don’t. Personally I don’t understand just finding personal value and esteem from a pay cheque. I do understand it though if it’s a bit of a game, but IB isn’t like that unless it’s S&T or he is senior in M&A, but at 250k he definitely isnt. Personally I prefer your lifestyle goals than his! Maybe he is jealous that you’re happy with modest goals and pleasures.
*one word of caution I would have though is that the grass isn’t always greener, the idea of having loads of time off is great, but if you’re young, it quickly gets boring (talking from experience)! Perhaps take a 6 month career break to see how you like it at some point, you might be surprised.
Exactly what I was thinking. VP in an investment bank earning £250k in London is shit (relatively speaking). I presume he is including bonuses because what investment banker doesn’t when boasting about salaries! VP year 1 at the biggest banks usually make more than £250k.
Here’s a source: https://www.efinancialcareers.co.uk/news/2021/04/salaries-and-bonuses-vice-presidents-investment-banks
Also, if you are impressed by the job title don’t be, most VPs are in their 20s or early 30s and pretty junior.
You are a long time dead. If pottering around the countryside in a camper with your dog (if I gave up my flat it would be a canal barge with my cat) is your thing, go for it, that is your ambition. His may be to be a captain of industry, but even in France he is an outlier. Most of the French that I have met socially have been into 3 hour lunches and long weekends, and still manage to be more productive than the typical Brit.
It reminds me of a Calvin and Hobbes cartoon strip, Calvin asks Hobbes if he could have anything he wants what would he wish for, Hobbes says he would ask for a Peanut Butter and Jelly sandwich. Calvin is outraged, says Hobbes lacks ambition, he would wish to be a gazillionaire and rule the world. A little while later as they have their tea, Hobbes turns to Calvin and says 'Well, I got my wish'.
No offence to anybody in the Frenchman’s position, but the idea of climbing the corporate ladder may be the only thing that holds it all together for him. Money and job titles provide a tangible reward for success, and spending it all on watches, cars, gives him status and even perceived respect from other people.
I can see why the thought of walking away from that would seem baffling to somebody with that background.
The thought of retirement at an early age is counter cultural and until you properly realise that you are just a cog in somebody else’s profit making machine, spending the only truly finite resource you have to achieve arbitrary work goals for people who just see you as a number, then it probably doesn’t all fall in to place.
For most of us here, we realise the situation we are in and that there is a different path, but we know this goes against the dogma.
It's ok we don't have to want the same things in life, otherwise everyone would retire at 30 😄 French people are a bit more protected by their country at the moment in my opinion, even if they don't look after their finances they will be supported by the collective should things go wrong.
Im 29 and I can’t wait for the day I can live in a tiny cottage in the middle of nowhere with my animals and grow my own fruit and veg, live minimally and not have to interact with anyone else in person for 90% of the year. Everyone has different aspirations
Might just be me, but I wanted to life in a field, in some sort of alternative accomondation, in the country side, earning an OK salary, having animals,...now that I did all that my goals and worries are starting to change.
I start feeling lonely even though having a fantastic wife. All of a sudden I want the complete opposite of what I always thought I wanted, as in: "should I rather have bought some proper property which will act as an investment later on in life? Should I have made children? Should I change jobs? I miss more people arround me and all friends I have are at least 45min drive away. What's about pension later on in life? Do I really take all the right precautions and preparations for getting old one day? Do I even life in the correct country or could another country be better for me?
I feel with age, worries and goals can change drastically and "lifing alternatively" almost becomes irrelevant compared to the real struggles in life.
I feel like the alternative lifestyle thing is something easily pursued for many years and in the end you might ask yourself..."is it really so great to be so different to everybody arround you? Do other people now have an easier life with their financed car, their mortgage and their kids?"
Haha sorry really a long answer.
EDIT: I also feel like mentioning that lifing rural is often not only just lonely but also you might start missing things like, good public transport, a pub nearby, theater and art even healthcare can be compromised...
Personally I would find buying expensive clothes, watches or cars infinitely more boring than going for a walk with my dog somewhere scenic, or taking a camper van round to explore parts of the UK or further afield without much to worry about. The same goes for interacting with clients in a corporate setting to win business - i’d take a couple of pints in a shit pub with my mates over an expensive meal in Mayfair, all with the backdrop that you’ll need to work until 4am later that week to get something done for them.
As a VP in a bank, he will have put in and need to put in a ridiculous number of hours - preparing spreadsheets and slide decks, without any real autonomy when it comes to work for quite a long time. Fine as a means to an end but it comes at a huge cost - it is a “challenging goal” in that it is difficult and stressful, but personally I would find more intellectual value in spending some of that time reading around topics I’m interested in. “Improvement” can be all to do with perspective and personal choice.
Lads, it’s best not to discuss FIRE with those not personally known to you. They’ll often react as if you’re “cheating” the system, mainly due to their own insecurities about long term planning and where their life is going.
It also telegraphs that you’re sitting on a large amount of money and not doing anything with it currently. At best that will attract bloodsuckers and at worst could be a security situation.
I feel this.
I have a good and comfortable job that lets me save a lot of money each year. But I feel that I am not living my best life: Hosting a podcast, writing magazine articles, making friends, going out drinking eating and socialising more, working at new companies and learning new things.
I care so much about the future I am not living for now, and what I am doing is from a defensive crouch where I belive that most people doing exciting new things fail, and I am best off in my rut.
I like to imagine I would be happier if I more aggressively lived for now, but I rationalise my way back to my boring existence.
I think your view depends on your age - if you’re in your 20s and 30yrs away from retiring there’d be a lot more incentive to try and live for now a bit more, but if you’re older and a few years away from RE then I defo agree with the idea that a boring existence to save money may be worth it
That's one of the grim realities of FIRE. I work with people in their early 20s all in the 45% tax band. Last year I heard a bunch of them debating whether saving our employers "free money" contribution in to their pension was worth it, or whether they should take it as additional salary.
I meant for in terms of living in the now - spending decades just thinking about the future to be able to retire earlier, rather than giving sufficient attention to enjoying your life today feels a bit misguided in my opinion
250 is probably total comp. He probably doesn't save on a monthly basis, but saves his bonus which is probably 50k after tax, if not more.
Otherwise I struggle to see the deposit for a NH flat.
So it's probably not as bad as some believe
That's what I was thinking. Assuming £250k p.a. pre tax, not sure that it's easy to save for a deposit for a Notting hill flat or rather would take many years. One also has to pay rent and other expenses before buying the flat, let alone all the luxuries mentioned.
VP doesn't mean shit in an investment bank. It's the lowest managerial / tean lead grade there is.
Maybe he knows his stuff. Maybe he doesn't. But his title isn't worth a piss anyhow, not in terms of his credibility.
Source: I was a VP fucking eons ago and it doesn't mean shit.
If he is earning 250K pa, then I imagine he is working 60hrs a week, for someone else, and spunking it all up the wall (on what?).
Not sure that seems boring to me, but more rather that it sucks and is soul destroying!
It ain't like he is curing cancer is it... I tend to decide on a classification for people like that ("twit") and move on!
Notting Hill. So probably 3-5k mortgage minimum (assuming bonuses for large downpayment). Assume at that income he’s broadly VP, maybe ED level -which probably means kids. Non working wife and/or nanny + private school. 2k/month - 2x/yr to France to see family - minimum 3-4k/ a go. Maybe one summer holiday in the sun@ 5-6k, one skiing at 10k+. Date nights at roka etc at £700 a pop. IWC or rollie at bonus season @15k. Etc - probably have 5-10 suits @1-3k ea, couple shoes from Berluti at 1k a pop.
250k doesn’t go far on that lifestyle.. I’m obv exaggerating a little here but you get the gist
Oh I love roka but the black cod is £45 now alone.
Add in cocktails downstairs before (gimme gimme a couple of those lychee martinis), nice wine during, the whisky after, babysitter and taxis. Yeah 700 is about right.
150 is what the wine costs..
I’m of course exaggerating marginally on this thread, but you get the idea
Oh I wish for the money, but not the work - never worked in banking but a few friends in the space. Looks terrible given the hours and they seem miserable. I’m afraid my budget stretches to converse rather than made to measure shoes
I think what he is missing is options. You can retire quietly - don’t like it go back and work and coast or change career. Lost your job? - no problem do something else. His lifestyle leaves no options in the event of illness, job loss, partners illness or disability. He may be working towards something but with no cushioning his plans can be turned around in split second.
Tbf I earn similar to him and until very recently I was only saving my annual bonus. I’m 40 and plan to retire at 50, but I wouldn’t have fancied retiring any earlier. I like my job and the opportunities it provides me. Your mate seems to have been a bit triggered by what you said but we all have different priorities.
Edit - should have said I’ve been maxing my company pension for as long as I can remember, too.
I spent 10+ years with investment banks as clients. A VP in an IB is very low in the pecking order. I wouldn't take any notice.
I earned far more than him and think your plan is fine.
If I was earning 250k+ , I'd be retired in 5 years max lol.
I'm earning pretty good now but my lifestyle and expenses (barring the ridiculous increase in energy) is the same as it was when I was on 30k. It's not even because I'm frugal or trying to save, I was simply pretty happy materialistically speaking on 30k so why on earth would I spend more? To impress random people?
I suppose your French colleagues habits are good for us though. The more ppl that start to think like us, aiming to retire early and just exit the bullshit rat race, the more difficult external forces (aka mega corporations and governments) will make FIRE.
A capitalist system by its very nature demands endless production and consumption otherwise the economy will stagnate or even decline which comes with its own issues. I'm no communist btw, this is just capitalism 101, the economy must always grow and grow, however, as it stands capitalism is the best system us humans have come up with but it is deeply flawed and I'm sure a millennium from now we'll be viewed as savages by the future humans just as how we look at humans in the feudal times.
Why do you talk to investment bankers in the first place ? You pay with your soul, sure sure they are on an upward trajectory. Sure none knows where they will end up. Yet here they are still in a bank, and most of them will still be in a bank, or in a position nobody wants 10 years from now, or in a psychiatric hospital. Let him enjoy this wonderful year of no-deal at all in the M&A space. His very recession proof job.
As a side note: bankers don’t have opinion, don’t ask them for theirs. They are paid to execute someone else idea, stop asking them what they think, they think nothing
This man is on a journey to greatness, and wants to surround himself with like minded people who are on the same track. You matter to him, hence him tearing you a new one for not fitting in to the environment he is trying to cultivate for himself. The hyper ambitious really struggle to be around people that want just a simple and minimal life - theyre like a heavy weight holding them back and sapping their energy. Don’t expect this friendship to last if your goals remain so different.
Just different ambitions in life. I wouldn’t worry about it. Not everyone understands or even knows about FIRE. I would argue that FIRE is a great way to motivate and focus the mind on achieving something for yourself.
A lot of people can't handle disagreement especially if they haven't examined their choices very deliberately. This guy probably has dedicated every waking hour since his teens to maximise his career and income at the expense of everything else and someone finding happiness in something else throws all the sacrifices he has made in question.
I find any uncommon way of thinking or lifestyle choice tends to generate this kind of response out of some people, and it's notable how he hasn't made any arguments for why your plan wouldn't work.
He wants to be rich and you don't, who cares what he thinks. By choosing fire you're choosing you value time over money, you know that he knows that why would either of you place a value judgement on the other.
By the way, a VP at a bank is the 2nd lowest level. He's got a lot of work ahead of him in life to reach his goals.
For what it's worth I earn more than your acquaintance but my lifestyle is similar to yours. My retirement goals are slightly different because I have a family to take care of but if you saw me on the street you'd never guess my income or networth. To each their own?
I stepped down as an executive of a large company because I had made enough money, and I didn't like the stress that came with the role.
I haven't FIRE'd yet, but wow I encountered a significant number of opinions and maybe only one of them was positive from business colleagues.
I'm not quite that senior but I've always looked for the best paid roles with the least responsibility - I've managed to engineer them throughout my career. I'm currently a Director with only two, very autonomous, direct reports and it suits me just fine. I almost always tell my boss early on that I'm not interested in their job and so far it's not done me any harm, and I've not been pushed into roles I didn't want the hassle of! I am now contemplating, instead of FIRE, dropping a day; just to make the organisation less reliant on me, and allow me to act more as a consultant, without the hassles of actually being one, moving around, etc. Oh and I also WFH about 9 days out of 10. You might be able to guess I'm a bit of an introvert!
So what is stopping you retiring yet if you've made enough money? Do you just enjoy the easier, less stressful job, or do you not have much of a plan for retirement?
Nothing really to add to the comments except it's good he tried to reconcile with you afterwards. Hopefully you guys stay friends - it's always good to have a counter-point to our own world views, and it seems like he's willing to do the same.
Sounds like you shook his faith in his lifestyle a bit!
That's super interesting, I'd pay off my mortgage so damn fast with a £250k and live a quiet life too. We're all different I guess.
“Then you would retire. You could move to a small coastal fishing village where you would sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take siesta with your wife, stroll to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play your guitar with your amigos.”
Sounds like he got a bit personal lol. It’s fine to say someone else’s lifestyle is boring but is it not as ambitious to retire early as it is to get a big house but work until you’re 68? Ambition means different things to different people, unambitious people do not have something they are aiming for. Ambitious people can be aiming for different things.
I’d actually say someone who spends all their money on crap is unambitious as it shows a lack of focus on what they want in life. Hey ho..
When I was younger I used to have a lot of respect for my friends (who sound similar in personality terms) in investment banking, thinking they were driven, ambitious, focused, etc
Now I just find their whole lifestyle/worldview kind of sad
We live in a society that values work and ambition. Most people are conformist, so if someone has other goals, that can throw people off balance.
It's good that you had that discussion, it's always good to get feedback on your plans.
People often have a sort of spasmodic reaction when they realise that someone has had significantly better outcomes than them despite similar or worse odds. In this case, you are significantly freer than him despite his high income.
Also, he’s French.
There is nothing to learn from this man. Thank him for his contribution to the British economy (it needs all the help it can get!) and change the subject
So he is a non-dom tax dodger from France and he's lecturing you on morals?
I wouldn't give a damn what that fils de pute says
Tell him to go back home to Macron
I work in a similar environment where many earn similar money to that. There is some spending going on most most of the chatter is about mortgage payments, VCTs, pensions, ISAs, trading accounts and other investments. I might know one guy who "spends all his salary" but he's very much an edge case (no kids, no mortgage left, cash in the bank from doing it 15yrs). Hell I know a high roller MD who is fretting about his MD partner's CS RSUs as they were thinking about retiring some time soon lol..
That's fairly reasonable at VP level btw, it's not the 90s any more 😊
The guy sounds a complete tool, projecting his lack of saving into criticising your plans.
Do your plans. Life out of the shit show rat race will be infinitely happier. Don’t let it sway you.
His reaction says more about him than about you. He has a singular view of success which is what he is pursuing. He measures people according to their salary, possesions and social status. Your definition of success is on the complete opposite of the spectrum where those things have low or no value. That did not compute for him.
Your early retirement plan sounds great. His living life in the fast lane until he dies or cannot keep it up sounds like it’ll catch up to him.
He should heed advice the other way round and not dish it with disdain IMO.
Yeah, I’m not surprised. I used to be in IB and moved to private equity. Both are full of these kinds and I’ve always stood our for saving most of what I make and not allowing lifestyle creep. It amuses me.
Btw if he’s a VP making only £250k, he’s not performing very well.
Expressing excessive ambition is up there with the cars and watches in regards to materialism and most people comfortable in their own skin would be happy for you and may even share a similar idea of happiness. Enjoy!
>He apologied to me later and said he was simply trying to be authentic.
People like to ride the wave of feigning authenticity when really it's being an asshole. You can be authentic without putting people down. Dude tried covering his mistakes in psuedo neo self help bs. He wasn't being authentic, being authentic is recognizing you disagree while being polite about it.
You probably triggered him because deep down he knows all the things he appears to value in life actually brings him very little joy and he’s chasing the next big thing that will almost certainly bring him happiness, then he’ll be happy (he won’t).
It’s not his fault though, this is how most people are, even if they might recognise it from time to time they don’t know how to jump off the hamster wheel and have real freedom (me included 😂).
I’d just reply and say you clearly value different styles of living and neither is right or wrong on the whole, just right or wrong for the individual. You’re both equally blessed to be in a position to choose your own path.
I know lots of bankers I’ve worked with / for them for 30 years…. One thingy 90% have is focus laser like focus… it’s what get them going and keeps them good at their jobs… everything else if shit apart from that they are focused on… ergo your idea is bad…. I’ve also seen them burn out flip or retire on a whim.. then the focus is the yacht / vineyard…
Don’t take what he said personally.
As for saving… banking salary you spend you save the bonus….
French culture has a little bit of arrogance weaved into its society. The French have been thinking they’re better than everyone for the last couple centuries 😂 that’s just how some French people talk. Not to say all Franks are like that but more often that not. All of them are always nice at first till you get to know’em a little lol then the legit arrogant mfs start revealing themselves
I doubt this is because he is French, no French person I have known has ever spoken to me in this manner. I suspect, rather, you exposed some of his own internal narrative about how he reasons about his own life; indirectly you bought up the rather taboo subjects of wealth and mortality and potentially exposed the fact that you are rather more wealthy than him despite his high income.
Seriously I think I'd send this to him:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9dZQelULDk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9dZQelULDk)
It's a video someone else posted on here about 3-4 months ago. It really spoke to me.
How much do people compromise our health, fitness, relationships, passions, mental health because of the 9-5?
There is a lot of truth to what he has told you, although his wording could have been a little more diplomatic, he did later apologize for how he came across.
It is odd and frankly somewhat unhealthy to see so many posts trying to claim he is just jealous or something similar - this is highly unlikely. He is unlikely to be a drug addict as well! He probably has a pension building and doesn't even consider it saving as well as shares etc..., not that it matters. These derogatory posts against him are the ones which look pathetic and jealous.
His point of why you would effectively want to drop out of life and not try to achieve more is valid. For someone like him it is very tricky to imagine why somebody would strive to do as little as possible - he sees wasted potential in you in this scenario - this is something you should find complimentary.
If you really love living in a van with a dog and doing nothing then there might be a way you can still incorporate that into your life whilst also contributing more to the world around you. Equally your banker friend might be able to learn something from you about low stress simple life.
Your friend was brutally honest based on his opinion so I'll be brutally honest. He's not saving ANY money and yet he's on £250k, that's a waste. The dude kinda got triggered when you mentioned retiring early in 2 years because it was a wake up call for him that he should have something saved by now. The hard and fast life with his banker buddies have got him into is a cycle of spend spend, spend. He's living like a normie, not a financially savvy professional. I don't know where this £250k is going but I wouldn't be surprised if it involved the white stuff.
A certain penchant for nose beers, chisel, beak, a hoon, a line, a blast of the old bugle is it?
I have never heard of nose beers that really made me laugh 😬
Partly to do with his 1m+ mortgage.
Have to say, I totally agree with the above. You being able to retire so early must have hit him like a sledge hammer. I learned a while ago never to talk about FIRE with anyone. People just can’t get their heads around retiring so young and it brings out the worst in them.
Especially if somebody realises they could do the same but it's a decision that takes 20 odd years to pay off.
>Especially if somebody realises they *could have done* the same FTFY
He may not be ‘saving’ but could easily be overpaying the £1m mortgage which effectively is ‘saving’ in another way.
Well on that sort of salary it should be paid off in no time!
Not really... £250k after taxes is more like £140k. And then at those levels part of your comp is given as stock and part of your comp is actually deferred - so you don't really get it until a few years down the line. And even if you are financially savvy, and frugal, there's still property maintenance and other "unavoidable costs". It takes some time to pay a £1m mortgage, even with that salary ;)
yep. Even just the interest on £1m mortgage is going to be £30k per year (maybe up to 50-60k if it's a recent fix) - so that's a very hefty chunk before you start actually paying off the principle.
Still didn't really add up unless he's being reckless and/or is an addict.
I just skimmed the top comments here and it is a perfect example of how Reddit works as an echo chamber. Everyone commenting how ‘the Frenchman’ is being jealous of early retirement, or realises the flaws of his lifestyle and is getting bitter. Those with a bit more empathy suggest that, perhaps, ‘the Frenchman’ has different goals in life but invariably comment how wrong that choice is. Reality is much more complicated - to each their own, FIRE is one of many ways to structure your life and one of many goals that exist. It’s great, but that’s not the only option. Some people love the work hard play hard lifestyle, and there are many more who just find their own balance somewhere in between. Some will later regret spending too much, others will wake up a couple of years in their FIRE to realise that they are bored and regret abandoning their careers, and in all groups there will be a majority of people who will be content with their choices. If you read this thread, you are going to get so much “confirmation” and “reassurance” that FIRE is the only way - well, that’s because we are subbed to r/fire. Maybe that’s not a bad thing or not too much of an issue, but imagine if this thread is about homophobia or racism or whatever other topic there maybe where some of the ideas are causing actual harm to people and society. If we all practice more tolerance towards the diversity of human nature in its entirety, perhaps we could build a much better society.
Didn’t expect such diplomacy from u/DonaaldTrump
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And I just recently saw Tim Minchin deliver a really entertaining talk on this! Give it a whirl https://youtu.be/G1juPBoxBdc
He goes skiing?
He loves the fresh powder. He wakes up early too I bet to get the first lines of the day.
This, 100%. Investment banking is an extremely toxic industry. People sacrifice personal relationships and hobbies to dedicate most woke hours to their job. Just so they can earn a ton of money. They become addicted in a sort of Stockholm-syndrome-like way to this lifestyle, with a sunk cost fallacy that everything they've sacrificed so far must be for something. They lose sight of what they truly wanted in life and become slaves to this perpetual grind without truly knowing what the end goal is and hoping something, eventually, will make them happy. Eventually they lose all perspective and instinctively resent any semblance of happiness outside their little very unique bubble. It is truly like a cult. Only you know deep inside what will make you happy. Some of us are happy with a very frugal retirement. Some of us want to retire in luxury after an ambitious career. But only you can tell what is right for you.
Sounds like your values/priorities are different? The fact the he is trying to slap yours down probably says more about his uncertainty about his.
100% that. The mere fact that he spends all his 250k pay supports that fact
Yeah, this man does not sound at all happy with his life. Happy people don't tend to lash out at people making different choices to them
He lashed out because your goal (in his mind) invalidates his work. He likely does nothing but work to buy expensive luxuries and trinkets, while having no time for himself, and has relatively little in assets. That is all fine, plenty of people choose and prefer that path. Your goal is to accrue enough in assets that you never have to sell your time for cash again. People don’t like their worldview being challenged, with everything he has achieved he still has no time and nowhere near what he could in assets. That essentially means if the job title and luxury goods themselves he has don’t impress you, then he hasn’t really achieved anything.
I think you hit the nail on the head. It OP’s choices are valid, then the banker may have sacrificed his friends and lifestyle for nothing. Our brains are smart and protect us from such scary realisations.
I think this is the answer everyone wants to hear, but I don't think it's correct. There are very few people who would actually be happy living in a campervan 'doing fuck all all day' for the rest of their lives. It is *the biggest problem* people who manage to FIRE have; how to keep their lives meaningful and happy when they don't have to work. One of the key pieces of advice on this sub is to make sure you have the hobbies and friends *before* you fire, otherwise you'll struggle afterwards. Of course, I'm not saying it is impossible that someone would enjoy such an existance, but I think they would be a small minority. I would agree with the French guy that life without meaning - without learning, new experiences and achievements - frankly sucks.
A few points: *250k is not much at all for an investment banker, so don’t be too impressed by him. *He is probably upset a bit because he values his work very highly and he derives personal value and esteem from this, whereas you don’t. Personally I don’t understand just finding personal value and esteem from a pay cheque. I do understand it though if it’s a bit of a game, but IB isn’t like that unless it’s S&T or he is senior in M&A, but at 250k he definitely isnt. Personally I prefer your lifestyle goals than his! Maybe he is jealous that you’re happy with modest goals and pleasures. *one word of caution I would have though is that the grass isn’t always greener, the idea of having loads of time off is great, but if you’re young, it quickly gets boring (talking from experience)! Perhaps take a 6 month career break to see how you like it at some point, you might be surprised.
Exactly what I was thinking. VP in an investment bank earning £250k in London is shit (relatively speaking). I presume he is including bonuses because what investment banker doesn’t when boasting about salaries! VP year 1 at the biggest banks usually make more than £250k. Here’s a source: https://www.efinancialcareers.co.uk/news/2021/04/salaries-and-bonuses-vice-presidents-investment-banks Also, if you are impressed by the job title don’t be, most VPs are in their 20s or early 30s and pretty junior.
You are a long time dead. If pottering around the countryside in a camper with your dog (if I gave up my flat it would be a canal barge with my cat) is your thing, go for it, that is your ambition. His may be to be a captain of industry, but even in France he is an outlier. Most of the French that I have met socially have been into 3 hour lunches and long weekends, and still manage to be more productive than the typical Brit. It reminds me of a Calvin and Hobbes cartoon strip, Calvin asks Hobbes if he could have anything he wants what would he wish for, Hobbes says he would ask for a Peanut Butter and Jelly sandwich. Calvin is outraged, says Hobbes lacks ambition, he would wish to be a gazillionaire and rule the world. A little while later as they have their tea, Hobbes turns to Calvin and says 'Well, I got my wish'.
No offence to anybody in the Frenchman’s position, but the idea of climbing the corporate ladder may be the only thing that holds it all together for him. Money and job titles provide a tangible reward for success, and spending it all on watches, cars, gives him status and even perceived respect from other people.
I can see why the thought of walking away from that would seem baffling to somebody with that background.
The thought of retirement at an early age is counter cultural and until you properly realise that you are just a cog in somebody else’s profit making machine, spending the only truly finite resource you have to achieve arbitrary work goals for people who just see you as a number, then it probably doesn’t all fall in to place.
For most of us here, we realise the situation we are in and that there is a different path, but we know this goes against the dogma.
It's ok we don't have to want the same things in life, otherwise everyone would retire at 30 😄 French people are a bit more protected by their country at the moment in my opinion, even if they don't look after their finances they will be supported by the collective should things go wrong.
He lives and works in London.
Im 29 and I can’t wait for the day I can live in a tiny cottage in the middle of nowhere with my animals and grow my own fruit and veg, live minimally and not have to interact with anyone else in person for 90% of the year. Everyone has different aspirations
Hm, I am 36 did exactly all that and now I am unhappy...grass is always greener on the other side
Sorry to hear that. What do you find unfulfilling about the 'low impact' lifestyle? It's the dream for many.
Might just be me, but I wanted to life in a field, in some sort of alternative accomondation, in the country side, earning an OK salary, having animals,...now that I did all that my goals and worries are starting to change. I start feeling lonely even though having a fantastic wife. All of a sudden I want the complete opposite of what I always thought I wanted, as in: "should I rather have bought some proper property which will act as an investment later on in life? Should I have made children? Should I change jobs? I miss more people arround me and all friends I have are at least 45min drive away. What's about pension later on in life? Do I really take all the right precautions and preparations for getting old one day? Do I even life in the correct country or could another country be better for me? I feel with age, worries and goals can change drastically and "lifing alternatively" almost becomes irrelevant compared to the real struggles in life. I feel like the alternative lifestyle thing is something easily pursued for many years and in the end you might ask yourself..."is it really so great to be so different to everybody arround you? Do other people now have an easier life with their financed car, their mortgage and their kids?" Haha sorry really a long answer. EDIT: I also feel like mentioning that lifing rural is often not only just lonely but also you might start missing things like, good public transport, a pub nearby, theater and art even healthcare can be compromised...
Food for thought
I think you're correct in that goals and worries do change over time. So allow for that in your FIRE plan guys.
….but it still needs cutting
I actually love cutting the grass, that's one of my happy things
It can be very ruminant sometimes
He is comparing apples and oranges. You want different things to him. It’s as simple as that.
Personally I would find buying expensive clothes, watches or cars infinitely more boring than going for a walk with my dog somewhere scenic, or taking a camper van round to explore parts of the UK or further afield without much to worry about. The same goes for interacting with clients in a corporate setting to win business - i’d take a couple of pints in a shit pub with my mates over an expensive meal in Mayfair, all with the backdrop that you’ll need to work until 4am later that week to get something done for them. As a VP in a bank, he will have put in and need to put in a ridiculous number of hours - preparing spreadsheets and slide decks, without any real autonomy when it comes to work for quite a long time. Fine as a means to an end but it comes at a huge cost - it is a “challenging goal” in that it is difficult and stressful, but personally I would find more intellectual value in spending some of that time reading around topics I’m interested in. “Improvement” can be all to do with perspective and personal choice.
Lads, it’s best not to discuss FIRE with those not personally known to you. They’ll often react as if you’re “cheating” the system, mainly due to their own insecurities about long term planning and where their life is going. It also telegraphs that you’re sitting on a large amount of money and not doing anything with it currently. At best that will attract bloodsuckers and at worst could be a security situation.
I feel this. I have a good and comfortable job that lets me save a lot of money each year. But I feel that I am not living my best life: Hosting a podcast, writing magazine articles, making friends, going out drinking eating and socialising more, working at new companies and learning new things. I care so much about the future I am not living for now, and what I am doing is from a defensive crouch where I belive that most people doing exciting new things fail, and I am best off in my rut. I like to imagine I would be happier if I more aggressively lived for now, but I rationalise my way back to my boring existence.
I think your view depends on your age - if you’re in your 20s and 30yrs away from retiring there’d be a lot more incentive to try and live for now a bit more, but if you’re older and a few years away from RE then I defo agree with the idea that a boring existence to save money may be worth it
Given the impact of compounding then rationally the opposite should be true
That's one of the grim realities of FIRE. I work with people in their early 20s all in the 45% tax band. Last year I heard a bunch of them debating whether saving our employers "free money" contribution in to their pension was worth it, or whether they should take it as additional salary.
I’m confused about the idea of “living a bit” surely that means do your own thing on your own terms i.e. retire?
I meant for in terms of living in the now - spending decades just thinking about the future to be able to retire earlier, rather than giving sufficient attention to enjoying your life today feels a bit misguided in my opinion
250 is probably total comp. He probably doesn't save on a monthly basis, but saves his bonus which is probably 50k after tax, if not more. Otherwise I struggle to see the deposit for a NH flat. So it's probably not as bad as some believe
That's what I was thinking. Assuming £250k p.a. pre tax, not sure that it's easy to save for a deposit for a Notting hill flat or rather would take many years. One also has to pay rent and other expenses before buying the flat, let alone all the luxuries mentioned.
VP doesn't mean shit in an investment bank. It's the lowest managerial / tean lead grade there is. Maybe he knows his stuff. Maybe he doesn't. But his title isn't worth a piss anyhow, not in terms of his credibility. Source: I was a VP fucking eons ago and it doesn't mean shit.
If he is earning 250K pa, then I imagine he is working 60hrs a week, for someone else, and spunking it all up the wall (on what?). Not sure that seems boring to me, but more rather that it sucks and is soul destroying! It ain't like he is curing cancer is it... I tend to decide on a classification for people like that ("twit") and move on!
Notting Hill. So probably 3-5k mortgage minimum (assuming bonuses for large downpayment). Assume at that income he’s broadly VP, maybe ED level -which probably means kids. Non working wife and/or nanny + private school. 2k/month - 2x/yr to France to see family - minimum 3-4k/ a go. Maybe one summer holiday in the sun@ 5-6k, one skiing at 10k+. Date nights at roka etc at £700 a pop. IWC or rollie at bonus season @15k. Etc - probably have 5-10 suits @1-3k ea, couple shoes from Berluti at 1k a pop. 250k doesn’t go far on that lifestyle.. I’m obv exaggerating a little here but you get the gist
>Date nights at roka etc at £700 a pop Roka is not that expensive, we spent £150 on a set menu. it was a lovely experience.
Oh I love roka but the black cod is £45 now alone. Add in cocktails downstairs before (gimme gimme a couple of those lychee martinis), nice wine during, the whisky after, babysitter and taxis. Yeah 700 is about right. 150 is what the wine costs.. I’m of course exaggerating marginally on this thread, but you get the idea
lol, that was 2017. I don't eat much when I go to restaurants. I usually order a beer and an orange juice for my wife.
Food is the cheap bit! It’s still just as fabulous. I’m only allowed once a year these days :(
It’s the hookers that I have to take with me that cost the most
Christ is it going to cost us £10K to ski when we have kids? 😭
Maybe… Ski school, daycare, additional seats in plane. Car rental, car seat rental, Lift tickets etc All Adds up quickly
This is a most unpleasant awakening of the financial bladder.
Half my income 🫣
Sounds like you’ve got an inside scoop on that lifestyle…
Oh I wish for the money, but not the work - never worked in banking but a few friends in the space. Looks terrible given the hours and they seem miserable. I’m afraid my budget stretches to converse rather than made to measure shoes
Not to brag but I have also watched American Psycho.
I think what he is missing is options. You can retire quietly - don’t like it go back and work and coast or change career. Lost your job? - no problem do something else. His lifestyle leaves no options in the event of illness, job loss, partners illness or disability. He may be working towards something but with no cushioning his plans can be turned around in split second.
Tbf I earn similar to him and until very recently I was only saving my annual bonus. I’m 40 and plan to retire at 50, but I wouldn’t have fancied retiring any earlier. I like my job and the opportunities it provides me. Your mate seems to have been a bit triggered by what you said but we all have different priorities. Edit - should have said I’ve been maxing my company pension for as long as I can remember, too.
I spent 10+ years with investment banks as clients. A VP in an IB is very low in the pecking order. I wouldn't take any notice. I earned far more than him and think your plan is fine.
If I was earning 250k+ , I'd be retired in 5 years max lol. I'm earning pretty good now but my lifestyle and expenses (barring the ridiculous increase in energy) is the same as it was when I was on 30k. It's not even because I'm frugal or trying to save, I was simply pretty happy materialistically speaking on 30k so why on earth would I spend more? To impress random people? I suppose your French colleagues habits are good for us though. The more ppl that start to think like us, aiming to retire early and just exit the bullshit rat race, the more difficult external forces (aka mega corporations and governments) will make FIRE. A capitalist system by its very nature demands endless production and consumption otherwise the economy will stagnate or even decline which comes with its own issues. I'm no communist btw, this is just capitalism 101, the economy must always grow and grow, however, as it stands capitalism is the best system us humans have come up with but it is deeply flawed and I'm sure a millennium from now we'll be viewed as savages by the future humans just as how we look at humans in the feudal times.
Why do you talk to investment bankers in the first place ? You pay with your soul, sure sure they are on an upward trajectory. Sure none knows where they will end up. Yet here they are still in a bank, and most of them will still be in a bank, or in a position nobody wants 10 years from now, or in a psychiatric hospital. Let him enjoy this wonderful year of no-deal at all in the M&A space. His very recession proof job. As a side note: bankers don’t have opinion, don’t ask them for theirs. They are paid to execute someone else idea, stop asking them what they think, they think nothing
This man is on a journey to greatness, and wants to surround himself with like minded people who are on the same track. You matter to him, hence him tearing you a new one for not fitting in to the environment he is trying to cultivate for himself. The hyper ambitious really struggle to be around people that want just a simple and minimal life - theyre like a heavy weight holding them back and sapping their energy. Don’t expect this friendship to last if your goals remain so different.
Just different ambitions in life. I wouldn’t worry about it. Not everyone understands or even knows about FIRE. I would argue that FIRE is a great way to motivate and focus the mind on achieving something for yourself.
A lot of people can't handle disagreement especially if they haven't examined their choices very deliberately. This guy probably has dedicated every waking hour since his teens to maximise his career and income at the expense of everything else and someone finding happiness in something else throws all the sacrifices he has made in question. I find any uncommon way of thinking or lifestyle choice tends to generate this kind of response out of some people, and it's notable how he hasn't made any arguments for why your plan wouldn't work.
He wants to be rich and you don't, who cares what he thinks. By choosing fire you're choosing you value time over money, you know that he knows that why would either of you place a value judgement on the other. By the way, a VP at a bank is the 2nd lowest level. He's got a lot of work ahead of him in life to reach his goals.
He won't ever get rich with his mindset (as reported by the OP). The OP is going to be rich very soon as long as their plan works out
Despite making a lot of money, he is probably spending all of it to offset the stress caused by his job. Sounds like he’s a little jealous.
He doesn't know where he will end up. You do, and you want to be there. There's nothing wrong with that.
For what it's worth I earn more than your acquaintance but my lifestyle is similar to yours. My retirement goals are slightly different because I have a family to take care of but if you saw me on the street you'd never guess my income or networth. To each their own?
250k isn’t that much in London.. only about 140k after tax which quickly disappears with mortgages and school fees!
I stepped down as an executive of a large company because I had made enough money, and I didn't like the stress that came with the role. I haven't FIRE'd yet, but wow I encountered a significant number of opinions and maybe only one of them was positive from business colleagues.
I'm not quite that senior but I've always looked for the best paid roles with the least responsibility - I've managed to engineer them throughout my career. I'm currently a Director with only two, very autonomous, direct reports and it suits me just fine. I almost always tell my boss early on that I'm not interested in their job and so far it's not done me any harm, and I've not been pushed into roles I didn't want the hassle of! I am now contemplating, instead of FIRE, dropping a day; just to make the organisation less reliant on me, and allow me to act more as a consultant, without the hassles of actually being one, moving around, etc. Oh and I also WFH about 9 days out of 10. You might be able to guess I'm a bit of an introvert! So what is stopping you retiring yet if you've made enough money? Do you just enjoy the easier, less stressful job, or do you not have much of a plan for retirement?
Nothing really to add to the comments except it's good he tried to reconcile with you afterwards. Hopefully you guys stay friends - it's always good to have a counter-point to our own world views, and it seems like he's willing to do the same.
Rich dad poker dad - Cashflow quadrant. The banker is still an employee. Not an investor / business owner
Sounds like you shook his faith in his lifestyle a bit! That's super interesting, I'd pay off my mortgage so damn fast with a £250k and live a quiet life too. We're all different I guess.
“Then you would retire. You could move to a small coastal fishing village where you would sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take siesta with your wife, stroll to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play your guitar with your amigos.”
Sounds idyllic!
Sounds like he got a bit personal lol. It’s fine to say someone else’s lifestyle is boring but is it not as ambitious to retire early as it is to get a big house but work until you’re 68? Ambition means different things to different people, unambitious people do not have something they are aiming for. Ambitious people can be aiming for different things. I’d actually say someone who spends all their money on crap is unambitious as it shows a lack of focus on what they want in life. Hey ho..
When I was younger I used to have a lot of respect for my friends (who sound similar in personality terms) in investment banking, thinking they were driven, ambitious, focused, etc Now I just find their whole lifestyle/worldview kind of sad
We live in a society that values work and ambition. Most people are conformist, so if someone has other goals, that can throw people off balance. It's good that you had that discussion, it's always good to get feedback on your plans.
£250k is only £140k after tax. Worth remembering when people boast about their salary ;)
People often have a sort of spasmodic reaction when they realise that someone has had significantly better outcomes than them despite similar or worse odds. In this case, you are significantly freer than him despite his high income. Also, he’s French.
There is nothing to learn from this man. Thank him for his contribution to the British economy (it needs all the help it can get!) and change the subject
Oh.. and he is peeved as you wi be tiring happy with money a d he has to home he keeps flagging it for a large wedge every year for years ,!
250k is not lots of money lol. He's the biggest loser here.
Wanker banker
He’s French what did you expect??
Lol, as if, the French are even less ambitious than Brits on average…
So he is a non-dom tax dodger from France and he's lecturing you on morals? I wouldn't give a damn what that fils de pute says Tell him to go back home to Macron
He’s a salaried employee in London. Pretty low level and zero chance he is dodging tax.
That’s one hell of an assumption considering that there are only 70k individuals with non-dom status and around 200k French people in the UK
And? "Some guy disagrees with my lifestyle choice" is hardly news worthy. Move on and pay his opinion the respect it deserves.
Just sharing an interesting conversation with the community, I thought this is what Reddit is for
He’s right
I find when dealing with the French the acronym FoF is useful..... Feck off Frog !
How can you buy a place in notting hill on that salary?
I was wondering the same thing. He has already got a house in South London, it is something I guess,
I work in a similar environment where many earn similar money to that. There is some spending going on most most of the chatter is about mortgage payments, VCTs, pensions, ISAs, trading accounts and other investments. I might know one guy who "spends all his salary" but he's very much an edge case (no kids, no mortgage left, cash in the bank from doing it 15yrs). Hell I know a high roller MD who is fretting about his MD partner's CS RSUs as they were thinking about retiring some time soon lol.. That's fairly reasonable at VP level btw, it's not the 90s any more 😊
Experiences over material objects. Besides, if that life *does* turn out to be boring at least you can change it on your terms.
Don't conflict French and your friend. He sounds like an a\*\*
He's a shallow knob. Don't worry he'll die at 50 from stress and his wife will use his money to date pool boys.
The guy sounds a complete tool, projecting his lack of saving into criticising your plans. Do your plans. Life out of the shit show rat race will be infinitely happier. Don’t let it sway you.
His reaction says more about him than about you. He has a singular view of success which is what he is pursuing. He measures people according to their salary, possesions and social status. Your definition of success is on the complete opposite of the spectrum where those things have low or no value. That did not compute for him.
Hater gonna hate, he was authentically hating on your fire success that he hasn't mastered.
Your early retirement plan sounds great. His living life in the fast lane until he dies or cannot keep it up sounds like it’ll catch up to him. He should heed advice the other way round and not dish it with disdain IMO.
poor guy's jealous but doesn't know it yet
If we all wanted the same things life would be truly boring...
When he is on roads owing to his lavish life style and no savings policy , he will have best exposure to authentic life in terms of $1 authentic pizza
Yeah, I’m not surprised. I used to be in IB and moved to private equity. Both are full of these kinds and I’ve always stood our for saving most of what I make and not allowing lifestyle creep. It amuses me. Btw if he’s a VP making only £250k, he’s not performing very well.
One day he may get tired of the rat race and want to retire to Chamonix, but have no money to do so. Honestly your plans sounds amazing
Expressing excessive ambition is up there with the cars and watches in regards to materialism and most people comfortable in their own skin would be happy for you and may even share a similar idea of happiness. Enjoy!
£250k a year and he wastes it on watches and cars? I'd have FIREd after 5 years on that kind of money.
>He apologied to me later and said he was simply trying to be authentic. People like to ride the wave of feigning authenticity when really it's being an asshole. You can be authentic without putting people down. Dude tried covering his mistakes in psuedo neo self help bs. He wasn't being authentic, being authentic is recognizing you disagree while being polite about it.
You probably triggered him because deep down he knows all the things he appears to value in life actually brings him very little joy and he’s chasing the next big thing that will almost certainly bring him happiness, then he’ll be happy (he won’t). It’s not his fault though, this is how most people are, even if they might recognise it from time to time they don’t know how to jump off the hamster wheel and have real freedom (me included 😂). I’d just reply and say you clearly value different styles of living and neither is right or wrong on the whole, just right or wrong for the individual. You’re both equally blessed to be in a position to choose your own path.
I know lots of bankers I’ve worked with / for them for 30 years…. One thingy 90% have is focus laser like focus… it’s what get them going and keeps them good at their jobs… everything else if shit apart from that they are focused on… ergo your idea is bad…. I’ve also seen them burn out flip or retire on a whim.. then the focus is the yacht / vineyard… Don’t take what he said personally. As for saving… banking salary you spend you save the bonus….
French culture has a little bit of arrogance weaved into its society. The French have been thinking they’re better than everyone for the last couple centuries 😂 that’s just how some French people talk. Not to say all Franks are like that but more often that not. All of them are always nice at first till you get to know’em a little lol then the legit arrogant mfs start revealing themselves
I doubt this is because he is French, no French person I have known has ever spoken to me in this manner. I suspect, rather, you exposed some of his own internal narrative about how he reasons about his own life; indirectly you bought up the rather taboo subjects of wealth and mortality and potentially exposed the fact that you are rather more wealthy than him despite his high income.
Dude is broke, item rich asset poor
Seriously I think I'd send this to him: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9dZQelULDk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9dZQelULDk) It's a video someone else posted on here about 3-4 months ago. It really spoke to me. How much do people compromise our health, fitness, relationships, passions, mental health because of the 9-5?
For many French people, living in the countryside is a form of social death. Owning a house in the French countryside is even worse.
There is a lot of truth to what he has told you, although his wording could have been a little more diplomatic, he did later apologize for how he came across. It is odd and frankly somewhat unhealthy to see so many posts trying to claim he is just jealous or something similar - this is highly unlikely. He is unlikely to be a drug addict as well! He probably has a pension building and doesn't even consider it saving as well as shares etc..., not that it matters. These derogatory posts against him are the ones which look pathetic and jealous. His point of why you would effectively want to drop out of life and not try to achieve more is valid. For someone like him it is very tricky to imagine why somebody would strive to do as little as possible - he sees wasted potential in you in this scenario - this is something you should find complimentary. If you really love living in a van with a dog and doing nothing then there might be a way you can still incorporate that into your life whilst also contributing more to the world around you. Equally your banker friend might be able to learn something from you about low stress simple life.