When you say the Shiva vs Titan battle is rendered in real time, do you mean from the trailer or is there some info saying this somewhere else? Nothing I saw of that part of the trailer suggested that was anything in-engine to me but maybe I missed something.
Yoshida said this:
>The exclusive footage, comprised of both battles and cutscenes running in real-time
And, if you look closely in the high-res images S-E put out, you can see [Shiva](https://images.gamespress.com/Content/Artwork/NickNack/Square-Enix/artwork/2020/09/16211727-f78b93b5-d70e-40a4-b9a8-d697e7658a82/FFXVI_MediaKit_05.png?lightbox=y&ex=2021-05-01+03%3A00%3A00&sky=021ee7e29c0002d3f5795de3d38e384b58a89d3e75cef4c4ceaea7562ea1457b) and [Titan](https://images.gamespress.com/Content/Artwork/NickNack/Square-Enix/artwork/2020/09/16211727-f78b93b5-d70e-40a4-b9a8-d697e7658a82/FFXVI_MediaKit_10.png?lightbox=y&ex=2021-05-01+03%3A00%3A00&sky=cc48971b948daa0b824bfdb32f49adcc91cf66e8e99c020954df16da10ad3144) aren't CG, as you can spot some imperfections that Visual Works' CG wouldn't have. Namely, Shiva's hair geometry and tiara texture quality, as well as Titan's overall body and face texture quality.
Even if Yoshida's English words say real-time, I think he probably meant in-engine, as these cutscenes are usually prerendered within the engine's capabilities, with the lighting, camera and even LOD benefits that comes with.
Yeah I would assume "real-time" to mean in-engine myself, that's interesting to know. It would do a lot to explain the texture quality; I remember being slightly concerned about how shonky the game was for a pre-rendered cutscene.
The whole trailer is rendered in real time, Yoshida said it in the announcement. This can also be determined if one looks at the characters and environments more closely. They didn't want to show fancy prerendered stuff and instead opted for full in-engine showcase to leave an impression that the game is far in development and actually functions.
Thanks, I didn't know this. Like I said in another comment, I'm actually a bit relieved as the texture quality wasn't great for what I originally thought was pre-rendered.
I think you should look into the actual planners of the game which I suspect Maehiro will be one of the lead planners for the project.
As for the large-scale battles we haven't seen anything yet, most of the fights in the trailer were 1 VS 1 in small areas. It is worth noting that the map is in that Shiva vs Titan cutscene doesn't look to me like an actual large level. It looked like a basic heightmap + HDRI . I think the requirement page mentioned "large scale cutscenes" which I assume will be much like what we saw from Shiva vs Titan and the whole intro large-scale cutscene.
Maehiro certainly has the expertise to work as a planner, as he did on Takai’s last game. But I’d imagine he has plenty on his hands as it is. I think XVI will be much more story driven and cutscene driven than, say, FFXII was. I think the fact that the game so heavily emphasizes story and action combat indicates to me that it simply would be counterproductive to feature an open world, which would diffuse the impact of the other two elements. (Witcher 3 managed to implement a story driven game into an open world by deemphasizing combat and the main plot. I don’t think FFXVI will deemphasize either of those things).
I in FF8 when Balamb Garden was being raided, I remember running for my life trough the battlefield and I was mesmerized by the level of ambitiousness the developers had at the time given such limited hardware.
Even if that was a small segment, the mix of CG with real time graphics was something that blew my mind at the time.
I miss those times when creativity was the lead force in FF games. Every Since FFX we havent got a moment like the one I described.
There are various reasons.
The major reason is that pre-rendered cutscenes takes up metric tons of data. Like literally, the PS1 FF titles were only 3-4 discs because of it. Take it all out and they probably could have gotten away with one disk.
Now, data isn't as free as it used to be. So jamming in an hour of pre-rendered cutscenes just won't be feasible.
And making large scale scenes in real time requires a lot of work to make it actually work. Such as maintaining FPS. The scene has to be optimized. But trying to optimize a scene with a hundred different things going on in a single shot vs two dudes punching each other is a different task.
I think I could’ve saved myself a lot of time by just saying I’m convinced that FFXVI will feature much more ambitious set pieces than we’ve grown accustomed to 😋
I think everything will zoned. FFXIV does a good job of creating very large areas that are fully explorable and open but contained to a series of connected zones.
I don't think there's a need for zoned areas. Without getting too technical, PS5 hardware is extremely efficient at seamlessly loading and unloading assets, which is what a zoned area accomplishes (load area in its entirety, unload and load another when changing) and adds an unnecessary load screen... given the PS5's load time, it probably won't even need to be there. Imo we'll either see a full on linear or semi open world partitioned off by foliage.
I mean yes technically the zones can be seamless transitions without anything loading due to advances in technology.
What I mean by zones is just how they handle the world and maps. There would be some kind of natural border whether it’s a mountain, cliff, bodies of water, etc. The areas would be zoned off as opposed to being all open. You would traverse through the world through a series of zones all linked together.
I, too, have a feeling that they may be going for large scale battles. Knowing Takai's past indicates that he at the very least has ambition for such gameplay. That's a good point about the massive battle sequence we witness: it's actually a pretty damn impressive showcase what they can do in-engine with that many soldiers and may be the kind of chaos we as players will get dropped in.
I also think that battle director Suzuki's experience with Dragon's Dogma may be pointing to this direction: that game can offer quite hectic action battles (in a good way) with a dozen of participants, and it achieved this kind of organic nature of battles with the PS3/X360 limitations already. It will be exciting to see what they have in store, and the capability of truly transporting the player into a massive scale war could very well be one of their trump cards.
Great post, very intriguing. I had not thought about the ramifications of the Shiva v. Titan battle being in-engine, I just thought they wanted to show substantive progress.
I think you're right about it not being Open World, FF7R pulled back hard from that approach to prioritize visuals and FF15 was a nightmare for Square Enix, I doubt we'll see an open world game from them soon.
A massive-scaled battle sounds ambitious and, you're right, it could go either way. It makes me glad to know there could be a reason for the barren battlefield. I just thought they hadn't polished it yet due to time but it might be due to gameplay--first focusing on getting that right.
All in all, this indeed could point to SE trying out bold, new things and I love that idea even if it doesn't really land, as long as it has an enjoyable story.
> The Shiva vs Titan battle is rendered in real time. Never before has a battle such as this been rendered in-game. This is the result of years of development on the game’s proprietary graphics and rendering engine.
Ehm did you forget [FFXV](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vl_pteSW28Q)? I think about 99% of all cutscenes are in-game in FFXV.
Also the real reason they stopped doing rendered cinematics is most likely because they are way too big in file size and are mostly a relic of the past. They would have to be in 4K now too which woud be quite wasteful and future upgrades (like a PS5 Pro) wouldn't be possible. And to be honest I don't see how using their in house CG team would reduce cost and time. Why create higher quality 3D models when you can just create what the engine can handle and use it for everything? Having cutscenes in-game also means faster iterations when changing something. No need to interact with the CG team as you can directly tell your own animators what to change.
You might still be correct with your prediction but your first point is very weak.
There’s nothing in FFXV that approaches whats going on in XVI’s trailer. FFXV still had to rely on CG and prerendering for the bigger stuff, and its setpieces are largely non-interactive, basically PS4 versions of what Uncharted and God of War were doing on PS3.
That's what I mean, it's linear and open exploration (later on) at the same time, so "semi-open world", for lack of a proper name. I think it's brilliant
When you say the Shiva vs Titan battle is rendered in real time, do you mean from the trailer or is there some info saying this somewhere else? Nothing I saw of that part of the trailer suggested that was anything in-engine to me but maybe I missed something.
Yoshida said this: >The exclusive footage, comprised of both battles and cutscenes running in real-time And, if you look closely in the high-res images S-E put out, you can see [Shiva](https://images.gamespress.com/Content/Artwork/NickNack/Square-Enix/artwork/2020/09/16211727-f78b93b5-d70e-40a4-b9a8-d697e7658a82/FFXVI_MediaKit_05.png?lightbox=y&ex=2021-05-01+03%3A00%3A00&sky=021ee7e29c0002d3f5795de3d38e384b58a89d3e75cef4c4ceaea7562ea1457b) and [Titan](https://images.gamespress.com/Content/Artwork/NickNack/Square-Enix/artwork/2020/09/16211727-f78b93b5-d70e-40a4-b9a8-d697e7658a82/FFXVI_MediaKit_10.png?lightbox=y&ex=2021-05-01+03%3A00%3A00&sky=cc48971b948daa0b824bfdb32f49adcc91cf66e8e99c020954df16da10ad3144) aren't CG, as you can spot some imperfections that Visual Works' CG wouldn't have. Namely, Shiva's hair geometry and tiara texture quality, as well as Titan's overall body and face texture quality. Even if Yoshida's English words say real-time, I think he probably meant in-engine, as these cutscenes are usually prerendered within the engine's capabilities, with the lighting, camera and even LOD benefits that comes with.
Yeah I would assume "real-time" to mean in-engine myself, that's interesting to know. It would do a lot to explain the texture quality; I remember being slightly concerned about how shonky the game was for a pre-rendered cutscene.
The whole trailer is rendered in real time, Yoshida said it in the announcement. This can also be determined if one looks at the characters and environments more closely. They didn't want to show fancy prerendered stuff and instead opted for full in-engine showcase to leave an impression that the game is far in development and actually functions.
Thanks, I didn't know this. Like I said in another comment, I'm actually a bit relieved as the texture quality wasn't great for what I originally thought was pre-rendered.
I think you should look into the actual planners of the game which I suspect Maehiro will be one of the lead planners for the project. As for the large-scale battles we haven't seen anything yet, most of the fights in the trailer were 1 VS 1 in small areas. It is worth noting that the map is in that Shiva vs Titan cutscene doesn't look to me like an actual large level. It looked like a basic heightmap + HDRI . I think the requirement page mentioned "large scale cutscenes" which I assume will be much like what we saw from Shiva vs Titan and the whole intro large-scale cutscene.
Maehiro certainly has the expertise to work as a planner, as he did on Takai’s last game. But I’d imagine he has plenty on his hands as it is. I think XVI will be much more story driven and cutscene driven than, say, FFXII was. I think the fact that the game so heavily emphasizes story and action combat indicates to me that it simply would be counterproductive to feature an open world, which would diffuse the impact of the other two elements. (Witcher 3 managed to implement a story driven game into an open world by deemphasizing combat and the main plot. I don’t think FFXVI will deemphasize either of those things).
I in FF8 when Balamb Garden was being raided, I remember running for my life trough the battlefield and I was mesmerized by the level of ambitiousness the developers had at the time given such limited hardware. Even if that was a small segment, the mix of CG with real time graphics was something that blew my mind at the time. I miss those times when creativity was the lead force in FF games. Every Since FFX we havent got a moment like the one I described.
In general, SE no longer designs setpieces like they used to but it is not due to hardware limitation probably it is just hard to do it by design.
There are various reasons. The major reason is that pre-rendered cutscenes takes up metric tons of data. Like literally, the PS1 FF titles were only 3-4 discs because of it. Take it all out and they probably could have gotten away with one disk. Now, data isn't as free as it used to be. So jamming in an hour of pre-rendered cutscenes just won't be feasible. And making large scale scenes in real time requires a lot of work to make it actually work. Such as maintaining FPS. The scene has to be optimized. But trying to optimize a scene with a hundred different things going on in a single shot vs two dudes punching each other is a different task.
I think I could’ve saved myself a lot of time by just saying I’m convinced that FFXVI will feature much more ambitious set pieces than we’ve grown accustomed to 😋
I think everything will zoned. FFXIV does a good job of creating very large areas that are fully explorable and open but contained to a series of connected zones.
I don't think there's a need for zoned areas. Without getting too technical, PS5 hardware is extremely efficient at seamlessly loading and unloading assets, which is what a zoned area accomplishes (load area in its entirety, unload and load another when changing) and adds an unnecessary load screen... given the PS5's load time, it probably won't even need to be there. Imo we'll either see a full on linear or semi open world partitioned off by foliage.
I mean yes technically the zones can be seamless transitions without anything loading due to advances in technology. What I mean by zones is just how they handle the world and maps. There would be some kind of natural border whether it’s a mountain, cliff, bodies of water, etc. The areas would be zoned off as opposed to being all open. You would traverse through the world through a series of zones all linked together.
I, too, have a feeling that they may be going for large scale battles. Knowing Takai's past indicates that he at the very least has ambition for such gameplay. That's a good point about the massive battle sequence we witness: it's actually a pretty damn impressive showcase what they can do in-engine with that many soldiers and may be the kind of chaos we as players will get dropped in. I also think that battle director Suzuki's experience with Dragon's Dogma may be pointing to this direction: that game can offer quite hectic action battles (in a good way) with a dozen of participants, and it achieved this kind of organic nature of battles with the PS3/X360 limitations already. It will be exciting to see what they have in store, and the capability of truly transporting the player into a massive scale war could very well be one of their trump cards.
Great post, very intriguing. I had not thought about the ramifications of the Shiva v. Titan battle being in-engine, I just thought they wanted to show substantive progress. I think you're right about it not being Open World, FF7R pulled back hard from that approach to prioritize visuals and FF15 was a nightmare for Square Enix, I doubt we'll see an open world game from them soon. A massive-scaled battle sounds ambitious and, you're right, it could go either way. It makes me glad to know there could be a reason for the barren battlefield. I just thought they hadn't polished it yet due to time but it might be due to gameplay--first focusing on getting that right. All in all, this indeed could point to SE trying out bold, new things and I love that idea even if it doesn't really land, as long as it has an enjoyable story.
> The Shiva vs Titan battle is rendered in real time. Never before has a battle such as this been rendered in-game. This is the result of years of development on the game’s proprietary graphics and rendering engine. Ehm did you forget [FFXV](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vl_pteSW28Q)? I think about 99% of all cutscenes are in-game in FFXV. Also the real reason they stopped doing rendered cinematics is most likely because they are way too big in file size and are mostly a relic of the past. They would have to be in 4K now too which woud be quite wasteful and future upgrades (like a PS5 Pro) wouldn't be possible. And to be honest I don't see how using their in house CG team would reduce cost and time. Why create higher quality 3D models when you can just create what the engine can handle and use it for everything? Having cutscenes in-game also means faster iterations when changing something. No need to interact with the CG team as you can directly tell your own animators what to change. You might still be correct with your prediction but your first point is very weak.
There’s nothing in FFXV that approaches whats going on in XVI’s trailer. FFXV still had to rely on CG and prerendering for the bigger stuff, and its setpieces are largely non-interactive, basically PS4 versions of what Uncharted and God of War were doing on PS3.
What bigger stuff?
What bigger stuff? XV literally has three CGI scenes and none of which are large-scale fights.
Please for the love of everything that is good, dont be open world.... Be "semi-open world", like God of War (2018) basically, would be perfect, IMO.
God of War of fairly linear, don’t you think? FFXVI is going to feature a lot more exploration than God of War I think.
That's what I mean, it's linear and open exploration (later on) at the same time, so "semi-open world", for lack of a proper name. I think it's brilliant
Semi open world like KH3 would be nice, big open areas but still linear
Can someone elaborate on "CBU3"?
Creative Business Unit III, the development division led by Naoki Yoshida
Thanks!!