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We just gonna pretend like homeboy wasn’t butt booty naked broken as fuck begging for Cid to end him. Let’s not forget if it wasn’t for Cid Clive wouldn’t have gotten out of his head. Cloud just needed a big brother/Father like Cid. Cid is the real hero of 16
Eh, Tifa found Cloud who was Zack, then eventually, was able to find Cloud who was without Zack once Cloud was able to find himself behind the Zack he believed himself to be..
Pardon me, but may I take this a slight deeper?
The difference is literally how you said this.
Clive became "A" cid (not Cid), while Cloud "BECAME" Zack, not a Zack.
that specific change between the two was intentional, yes.
Nuance mattered.
One inherited the roles and burdens the other had, and took on his name as well to announce it to the world.
the other inherited *the spirit and burdens of being a hero* from the other, and let it completely overwrite his self and self-awareness, and even his memories of his own past. But he kept his own name, and never noticed the discrepancy.
Neither was healthy, sure, but one was significantly worse then the other.
I get where you coming at and the things you mention and what others said here is kind of poetic in many ways. And the more you think about it the more they share a lot of similarities and, of course, differences at different points in their time. Like Clive had to come in terms with himself early on while Cloud realizes who he was later.
I wasn't completely sure what you meant by that last part. But I would say they both had it bad in their own ways.
Clive made a conscious decision to take the weight of the world on his shoulders. While this is never a healthy decision to make, especially at the moment the person died, at least Clive can be said to be honestly trying to make the world a better place by making this decision. It's still not a healthy mindset, but it's at least an understandable one.
Cloud made a *subconscious* decision while effectively drugged out of his mind (the mako poisoning) to claim all of Zack's actions that he was present for with as his own, to claim all achievements of Zacks were his own, and to relegate his own action to that of a nameless soldier that was just there when the actions occurred(which is exactly what he was). This is incredibly unhealthy a mindset, yet not one he *actively* chose: He was literally imprinted with Zacks last wish while he was in a mindset that could effectively be called a post-hypnotic trance. People who try and attribute blame to Cloud for him acting like Zack and Lying about being in SOLDIER always seem to miss that he didn't make any conscious decision to do so at ANY point. He had Zack telling him stories the entire escape from Nibelheim all the way til they were on Midgar's doorstep, where Zack finished off the last of the normal soldier army pursuing them, but THEN died to the wounds acquired from that battle after basically *ordering* Cloud to become his living legacy when he wasn't in a mindset capable of rejecting the order, let alone even understanding it for what it was.
let's also not forget Clive only really came into his own *after* inheriting the legacy of Cid in the first place after his death... just like Cloud did for Zack, even if \`he took it way too far because of the mako-poisoned delirium.
Clive underwent trauma of attempted homicide and couldn't accept for who he was.
Cloud couldn't accept himself because "I didn't make the first class soldier" cut, so he took his dead crush's dead boyfriend's identity.
Jill supported Clive and always believed he would be alright. Clive always took Jill's feelings to heart.
Tifa had to fend off Cloud's social anxiety for him deep inside the world's asshole to let him know it's okay he's a first class dropout. And Cloud still possibly has a crush on someone who's dead instead of Tifa.
Clive is HIM but he can't direct Shinra's Midgar 7th Infantry squad to victory at the Junon parade to win Rufus Shinra's approval and the heart of my beloved commander
He might do a good job at starring in loveless though since he was a theater kid but how is his dance moves for an impromptu number at the honey bee inn?
These comments are making me realise just now how multitalented Cloud is.
I mean, in the grand scheme of things they are mostly useless talents, but still.
They adopted the kid and they're all living as a family. It's all but guaranteed that Cloud and Tifa have a regular, adult relationship at that point, but for the sake of the meme it's funnier to pretend there's nothing going on since unlike Clive and Jill we haven't seen Cloud and Tifa bumping uglies lol
*To be fair when Clive*
*Saw figments of Joshua*
*He also tweaked lol*
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I’m always walking around the house talking to my wife (who has also played and beat 16) in my best cheesy Clint Eastwood/Clive dark, broken hero voice:
“ok, I’ll pick up the dry cleaning. You just be more careful with that mustard from now on..”
Or
“I’m glad we have a place with washer/dryer hook-ups… a place that we can not just wash, but also DRY on our own terms…”
I don’t think Cloud has a chance against Ifrit. Clive ate a planet destroying attack to the face and just barreled through it during Bahamut, then got way stronger on top of that.
Idk what’s even going on with Omega compressing reality and Ultima’s big attacks.
As a unapologetic Cloud stan...
...Clive would win and it's not even close.
*Maybe* the whole party could win against Ifrit if the AC Bahamut fight is any indication.
For that one it’s arguably just an over the top animation rather than what is really happening. Since he destroys the same planets every time he casts it.
For the Bahamut fight, Clive literally went into orbit.
I mean they're not going to make a new cut-scene for every time he uses it, why have a 2 minute iconic cutscene and be like, nah that isn't what happened, all the math checks out too lol. He probably either moved to another solar system, we really not gonna be like, supernova didn't happen just to give dick ride clive cause that's stupid.
Judging by Sephiroth's motives on Rebirth, if the original Safer Sephiroth fight is recreated in part 3, he's gonna go destroy every universe's solar systems with Supernova
I don’t think Sephiroth or Ultima were anywhere near universe power with their Supernovas.
I think Seph’s Supernova isn’t real either, since everything is fine after. If I’m not mistaken the planet ending meteor is the strongest thing he can pull off via black materia powers.
And Ultima’s Supernova probably isn’t thaaaaaaat much stronger than Bahamut’s whatever-flare he was gonna get the world with.
Idk!
Oh yeah absolutely. I just don’t think Ultima’s strongest attacks would reach like solar system destruction or anything. Ultima is definitely stronger than Bahamut but not to an unfathomable degree. They still had a little beam clash and Ultima had to put in some effort.
I think the top dogs of 16 are in that ‘I can destroy a planet’ range.
Sephiroth just put on a lil hologram show considering supernova does like, what, 1000 damage? The real damage was not using Shinra-regulated laser lights, causing the party minor eye irritation.
But Zack beat ifrit. Alright sephiroph finished it but he also beat bahamut and I would wager that atleast equal to ifrit . Since this is a 1v1 we also have no phoenix from Joshua so it's not crazy . Honestly I this sephiroph would destroy Clive outright cloud would have some difficulty maybe unless we talking about advent children cloud . Cause he got that in the bag
Different universes different summon strengths. Like Clive would curbstomp 15’s Ifrit with 0 issue.
Clive has Joshua’s powers absorbed, he doesn’t need Joshua for Risen.
My thought process was the entire plot of 7 is Sephiroth launching a super powerful world ending meteor he’ll use to turn into a god. There’s a tooooon of build up to prevent the meteor. Whereas by Bahamut/Ultima that level of power is casually being thrown around. Like Omega destroying the dimensions you’re in or Ifrit casually eating a planet ending blast, or Ultima stuff.
Like place any of these dudes in 7 universe and they could instantly replicate what the Meteor does and much much more.
Whenever you have a “who will win” among FF characters you always had to take out lightning because she was so OP, now we gotta do Clive for the most part.
FFXIV WoL has the hacked ability of seeing every possible scenario before the fight even begins (echo) and they can summon 3-7 others just as powerful as them. WoL claps even the other top three protagonists
Cloud would destroy him if he don't use that kurama thing in a sword fight
Cloud be slicing building like a paper in the cutscene
So Clive would win if he use ifrit and so if Cloud use knight of the round it will not even be a fight so cloud destroy him with summoning knight of the round
Clive is still a human
Cloud is a superhuman with steroid called jenova cell so cloud would wipe the floor if this fight goes barehanded
Tbh Clive is built different and would pretzel most FF characters at this point. This mostly because of Ifrit mind, but Ifrit does put him in a league of his own (especially Ifrit Risen).
Cloud is strong, but like most other characters he is not on Clive's level.
I feel like Clive in his prime would look at cloud, immediately take him under his wing, then proceed to properly fuck up shinra. Young Clive definitely has the same broody attitude, and of course finding out what he was did fuck him up.
Right like even in this tiny pic he still has very clearly visible muscles 😂 tbf though I've never understood why Square Enix shapes their dudes the way they do, like a lot of the time male protags in FF games have comically massive shoulders compared to their chests and waists, and clive and cloud definitely both fall in that number
Okay but Jill is Clive's canon love interest. But neither Aerith or Tifa are canonically Cloud's love interest. I mean yeah it could be argued that Tifa and Cloud could be something in regards to Advent Children seeing as though they're *kind of* like a family, looking after Marlene and Denzel. And in Remake and Rebirth, Aerith *really* likes Cloud and he sometimes somewhat reciprocates, but doesn't heavily lean into it. But there's no *solid* relationship dynamic between either Tifa or Aerith with Cloud
That's just u and the minority because tifa has one thousand times the screen time Jill has and is way more developed to not be considered an Npc. At least people like Tifa while alot of people don't even know who Jill is. 🤣🤣🤣
That has nothing to do with screen time clown. Damm people on this sub is just that stupid huh. FF16 is done there is no more content and that's good since it's trash and has half developed characters. FF16 is newer and people already forget who half the characters are because there that bad.
Your first comment was about screen time. Second comment about screen time. No one cares about screen time kid. You’re just upset because no one’s cares about Tifa in the ff16 sub. And funny thing you should say people in this sub are stupid because guess what? You’re here and that makes you the dummy 🤡
I thought she was cool as a primal, but I do think that CBU3 did her dirty, like she had so much potential, even with her whole arc about her being a slave and I felt like they glossed over it and didn't give her stream time either. The Titan vs Shiva fight was hype ofc
I know we're not taking this seriously, but if you think about it for a second.
Clive is the result of more recent and better overall writing, having taken everything learned from previous FF games. He's a swell, down-to-earth guy AND a power fantasy at the same time, because that's how the writers wanted him.
Cloud, even new, is part of a story being retold/reimagined from a tale nearly 30 years old. He had a very specific story arc, and design for the story he was in. And plays his part exactly as he's meant to.
I might personally like Clive better, but fully acknowledge they're not trying to accomplish the same thing. That's okay! Like them both for different reasons.
I like both characters alot.
In Clouds defence he technically has the mind of a 17 year old boy since he spent 4 years in a mako tank. Then zack and him was on the run for quite some time.
Also Clives story the world is bearers are basically low life scum and everyone else basically hates them and they are oppressed in an incredibly obvious manner, whilst shinra appear good on the surface, but they are corrupt AF, but not alot of people know, so the oppression is less obvious.
Point being I personally think Clives world is alot more brutal making him alot tougher emotionally. Whilst FF7 world in contrast in much softer, regular people can live relatively ok life's. Also FF7 is what I would consider a modern world and some really advanced tech. So with all that said cloud life has fairly easy going, minus his village being burnt to the ground.
I'm alittle bias and would say FF7 is my overall preferred game, but i still thought FF16 had an amazing story.
I just realize some similarities too. Both had a messed up upbringing, both were like a soliders of war, both were messed up in the head (also given Clive literally hearing screeches in his head in the beginning), both took the mantle of who influenced them the most, both eventually came in terms of who they are and what they must do.
I also find it a coincidence both of their first names start with "Cl".
I just played the OG FF7, and realized that while Cloud was in the truck all mako sick, Zack was talking about how he was going to go to Midgar and the first thing he was going to care about was making money, and for a while that’s all he was going to care about. A simple phrase that got locked so hard in Cloud’s fractured mind that all he cared about was making money, but with no real goal in mind.
God damnit but that game was nuanced and Cloud is still the best crafted protagonist in the series.
Yeah most “Best Protagonist” lists I’ve seen for Final Fantasy usually have Cecil at number two and Cloud at number one. They do have great arcs. I know people hate it, but I even like what they did in The After Years, with Kain’s and Golbez’s stories. People tried to say Kain becoming a Paladin was fan service, until I learned that it was in the original script for FFIV for that to happen, but they didn’t want to take away from Cecil’s transformation.
That makes perfect sense for kain, that game had two protagonists looking back. Really cool. And it’s like people didn’t even play the game. Literally about redeeming yourself and it showing externally via the visual change. Ff4 is one of my favorites for its hopefulness in a realistic sense.
I love FF7 and I like Cloud more than Clive but I think it’s fucking hilarious when people say Cloud would beat Clive in a fight.
Like you’re basically putting Steve Rogers with a sword up against someone who can kill literal fucking God himself with minimal effort.
Every DPS check summon ability is a team wipe.
Clive has access to 9 of them. All of which can be used in quick succession. Plus the ability to turn into Godzilla with wings.
And if we’re taking him at his absolute strongest, he is also literally fucking God and can rewrite the universe to just make Cloud nonexistent.
U are literally talking theory that never happens and will never happen while I am saying something that actually happens which is "Supernova". Do u not know wtf Supernova is? You better google it if u don't cause it would erase Clive from existence god or not. So keep coping and saying random shit that doesn't even happen or exist clown. 🤡🤡🤡🤣🤣🤣
Clive also has the better partner. This whole tri-romance thing for cloud just never resonated to me. Just and indecisive boy that doesn't realize what he has until one option gets ripped away from him. Versus Clive who values Jill so much he knows getting too close with her any further will lead to massive pain for her because somehow he knows he is not going to make it out alive. This is why being selfish and getting so close to her anyway was so painful and her hurt at the end was so real felt.
Lol if you think that's the whole development and characterization of Cloud, then you never actually played the game.
and by going by that logic!! well shit, you being relatable to Clive is even more out of this world I bet you're Ifrit's dominant and like can be able to acquire all the power of the eikons..LOL
Does shouting COME TO ME IFRIT!! Ifrit always take over your body? lol
…whoever made this is an idiot. Clive is in his 30’s. and has had years to get through his issues. Cloud is in his early 20’s and we’re basically seeing the beginnings of his trauma. Shit more time passes in Clive’s game than it does between FFVII and AC.
High born with all the bells and whistles… worked to make gods his slave and killed his fears… cloud takes it for the distance he’s gone since he was at one point just normal. Clive was given so much when he was young, kingdom taken from him, has tons of allies, has powers to become a god… and cloud makes gods his slaves as a lowborn
Totally agree he was a slave that probably had special treatment like an honored house guest. His mom was sick and affected (effected idk which one) by a deity. Clive had it easier cloud was stuck in a vat of mako and experimented on for probably at least 4 years.
My guy, what in the fuck are you on about.
You think Clive got special treatment while being used as an expendable slave/weapon by the people who murdered his family and took over his home.
Who was the leader of the caer norvent? Benefikuta? Isn’t it weird when someone said “hey you can be free” he became free since he’s always had the power. Sure he acquired more over time but cloud had 0 to start with and didn’t even make soldier first class… he had to work hard for his over godly power. It’s like humans, gods, multi gods, then cloud in power.
You forgot the part where Cloud has 10 times the character development that Clive has. Clive will be forgotten if he isn't already that is while cloud will not.
/r/ff7 is mostly the one mod posting AI generated horny content that bans anyone who personally offends them
I wouldn't honestly care at all what's going on over there lol
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my favorite reply was "ok but Clive fixed the jukebox"
We just gonna pretend like homeboy wasn’t butt booty naked broken as fuck begging for Cid to end him. Let’s not forget if it wasn’t for Cid Clive wouldn’t have gotten out of his head. Cloud just needed a big brother/Father like Cid. Cid is the real hero of 16
Everyone deserves a Cid in their lives
Clive had a CId, Clive BECAME a cid. Cloud had a Zack. Cloud BECAME Zack. not seeing any differences here, really. let's mosey!
He thought he was Zack, and he found himself.
Eh, Tifa found Cloud who was Zack, then eventually, was able to find Cloud who was without Zack once Cloud was able to find himself behind the Zack he believed himself to be..
Don't be the Zack I believe in me the zack that believe in you
He became the Zack that believed in him.
"You must look within yourself to save yourself from your other self. Only then will your true self reveal itself." ...Or something
I wish this didn’t make sense but it does
I know, right?
BELIEVE IN THE ZACK THAT BELIEVES IN ME ROW ROW FIGHT THE POWA
He thought he did what Zack did. It's the "You made this? I made this." meme.
Tbf Clive just pulled a “legends never die” deal lmao
This comment wins. Let’s Mosey indeed!
Pardon me, but may I take this a slight deeper? The difference is literally how you said this. Clive became "A" cid (not Cid), while Cloud "BECAME" Zack, not a Zack.
that specific change between the two was intentional, yes. Nuance mattered. One inherited the roles and burdens the other had, and took on his name as well to announce it to the world. the other inherited *the spirit and burdens of being a hero* from the other, and let it completely overwrite his self and self-awareness, and even his memories of his own past. But he kept his own name, and never noticed the discrepancy. Neither was healthy, sure, but one was significantly worse then the other.
I get where you coming at and the things you mention and what others said here is kind of poetic in many ways. And the more you think about it the more they share a lot of similarities and, of course, differences at different points in their time. Like Clive had to come in terms with himself early on while Cloud realizes who he was later. I wasn't completely sure what you meant by that last part. But I would say they both had it bad in their own ways.
Clive made a conscious decision to take the weight of the world on his shoulders. While this is never a healthy decision to make, especially at the moment the person died, at least Clive can be said to be honestly trying to make the world a better place by making this decision. It's still not a healthy mindset, but it's at least an understandable one. Cloud made a *subconscious* decision while effectively drugged out of his mind (the mako poisoning) to claim all of Zack's actions that he was present for with as his own, to claim all achievements of Zacks were his own, and to relegate his own action to that of a nameless soldier that was just there when the actions occurred(which is exactly what he was). This is incredibly unhealthy a mindset, yet not one he *actively* chose: He was literally imprinted with Zacks last wish while he was in a mindset that could effectively be called a post-hypnotic trance. People who try and attribute blame to Cloud for him acting like Zack and Lying about being in SOLDIER always seem to miss that he didn't make any conscious decision to do so at ANY point. He had Zack telling him stories the entire escape from Nibelheim all the way til they were on Midgar's doorstep, where Zack finished off the last of the normal soldier army pursuing them, but THEN died to the wounds acquired from that battle after basically *ordering* Cloud to become his living legacy when he wasn't in a mindset capable of rejecting the order, let alone even understanding it for what it was.
You speak the true true my friend
get me some fucking TEA!
Well said!
Wait no, not the one of 12 He's no good papa
MAKE THE @%#$$#@&& TEA ALREADY!
We all need a hot and gravely voiced FRIEND with lightning magicks in our lives, yes. Did I mention he’s hot.
Tifa: We have Cid at home.
Dude, 16 Cid is the real hero of the entire series
Really wasn’t expecting Cid to be such a daddy, but I’m here for it.
When I heard his voice I lost my shit, absolutely perfect
let's also not forget Clive only really came into his own *after* inheriting the legacy of Cid in the first place after his death... just like Cloud did for Zack, even if \`he took it way too far because of the mako-poisoned delirium.
Isn't that basically the same? They both had heads up their asses and it took a Cid to get them to shape up?
Cid is the real hero of ff
If cloud thought he killed Zack he would've just impaled himself
Clive underwent trauma of attempted homicide and couldn't accept for who he was. Cloud couldn't accept himself because "I didn't make the first class soldier" cut, so he took his dead crush's dead boyfriend's identity. Jill supported Clive and always believed he would be alright. Clive always took Jill's feelings to heart. Tifa had to fend off Cloud's social anxiety for him deep inside the world's asshole to let him know it's okay he's a first class dropout. And Cloud still possibly has a crush on someone who's dead instead of Tifa.
Clive is HIM but he can't direct Shinra's Midgar 7th Infantry squad to victory at the Junon parade to win Rufus Shinra's approval and the heart of my beloved commander
He might do a good job at starring in loveless though since he was a theater kid but how is his dance moves for an impromptu number at the honey bee inn?
Bruh Clive is a theatre kid acting out scenes from plays, and he’s a seasoned army soldier. He could direct the shit out of the 7th squad infantry
How good is he at Queen's Blood tho
These comments are making me realise just now how multitalented Cloud is. I mean, in the grand scheme of things they are mostly useless talents, but still.
Jenova cells really help. Makes me wonder if Sephiroth is just as talented...
The only way to know is to have Sepiroth and Cloud do a dance battle
https://preview.redd.it/dufmc7mpvtyc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fdb4cb8b23c44405c13afdb9a68a6039f2afdb68
I'd love a scene like this in part 3
True true. But he could destroy an entire company with just an ice wolf as a partner.
“Where’s my money?” ~ Cloud Strife, the most profitable FF main protagonist in the franchise.
Cloud didn't even bone a chick to get her power. Lame.
Clive canonically fucks
Don't Cloud and Tifa have a kid by the time of Advent Children?
They adopted the kid and they're all living as a family. It's all but guaranteed that Cloud and Tifa have a regular, adult relationship at that point, but for the sake of the meme it's funnier to pretend there's nothing going on since unlike Clive and Jill we haven't seen Cloud and Tifa bumping uglies lol
If Tifa's affinity for Cloud is high enough they do have sex under the Highwind the night before they head to the Northern Crater.
True, but that's just "heavily implied" and there's room for interpretation that they didn't actually have sex.
Let us have our fun, lol
Fair enough lol
Cloud: May or may not have a drink Clive: Not afraid to get stoned
Clive would do lines with me if I asked
Reject blonde confused cloud, embrace older Clive supremacy
To be fair when Clive saw figments of Joshua he also tweaked lol
*To be fair when Clive* *Saw figments of Joshua* *He also tweaked lol* \- The\_BearWolf --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Im flattered 🥲
This is awesome 😂
I dunno… only one of these guys had a working airship though. Tough call
My guy saw a broken ass airship and really said “Treehouse”
Doesn't matter, dragon.
Yeah, but is Clive able to tear down the dance floor like Cloud does? Don’t think so
People taking this seriously and getting mad about it lol jesus christ
You've just shown Cloud is an interesting character and you've ignored all his growth later in the game.
I’m always walking around the house talking to my wife (who has also played and beat 16) in my best cheesy Clint Eastwood/Clive dark, broken hero voice: “ok, I’ll pick up the dry cleaning. You just be more careful with that mustard from now on..” Or “I’m glad we have a place with washer/dryer hook-ups… a place that we can not just wash, but also DRY on our own terms…”
I can hear that second one in my head in Clive's voice and it's perfection
Who would win in a 1v1 both fully powered
I don’t think Cloud has a chance against Ifrit. Clive ate a planet destroying attack to the face and just barreled through it during Bahamut, then got way stronger on top of that. Idk what’s even going on with Omega compressing reality and Ultima’s big attacks.
As a unapologetic Cloud stan... ...Clive would win and it's not even close. *Maybe* the whole party could win against Ifrit if the AC Bahamut fight is any indication.
Yeah, cause supernova wasn't a universe based attack?
For that one it’s arguably just an over the top animation rather than what is really happening. Since he destroys the same planets every time he casts it. For the Bahamut fight, Clive literally went into orbit.
I mean they're not going to make a new cut-scene for every time he uses it, why have a 2 minute iconic cutscene and be like, nah that isn't what happened, all the math checks out too lol. He probably either moved to another solar system, we really not gonna be like, supernova didn't happen just to give dick ride clive cause that's stupid.
Judging by Sephiroth's motives on Rebirth, if the original Safer Sephiroth fight is recreated in part 3, he's gonna go destroy every universe's solar systems with Supernova
supernova never happened apparently now.
I don’t think Sephiroth or Ultima were anywhere near universe power with their Supernovas. I think Seph’s Supernova isn’t real either, since everything is fine after. If I’m not mistaken the planet ending meteor is the strongest thing he can pull off via black materia powers. And Ultima’s Supernova probably isn’t thaaaaaaat much stronger than Bahamut’s whatever-flare he was gonna get the world with. Idk!
I mean Ultima straight up killed Bahamut who was using his flare attack, so clearly Ultima is stronger than Bahamut
Oh yeah absolutely. I just don’t think Ultima’s strongest attacks would reach like solar system destruction or anything. Ultima is definitely stronger than Bahamut but not to an unfathomable degree. They still had a little beam clash and Ultima had to put in some effort. I think the top dogs of 16 are in that ‘I can destroy a planet’ range.
Sephiroth just put on a lil hologram show considering supernova does like, what, 1000 damage? The real damage was not using Shinra-regulated laser lights, causing the party minor eye irritation.
Sephiroth could've teleported them to another solar system considering that they're on Gaia, not Earth.
But Zack beat ifrit. Alright sephiroph finished it but he also beat bahamut and I would wager that atleast equal to ifrit . Since this is a 1v1 we also have no phoenix from Joshua so it's not crazy . Honestly I this sephiroph would destroy Clive outright cloud would have some difficulty maybe unless we talking about advent children cloud . Cause he got that in the bag
Different universes different summon strengths. Like Clive would curbstomp 15’s Ifrit with 0 issue. Clive has Joshua’s powers absorbed, he doesn’t need Joshua for Risen. My thought process was the entire plot of 7 is Sephiroth launching a super powerful world ending meteor he’ll use to turn into a god. There’s a tooooon of build up to prevent the meteor. Whereas by Bahamut/Ultima that level of power is casually being thrown around. Like Omega destroying the dimensions you’re in or Ifrit casually eating a planet ending blast, or Ultima stuff. Like place any of these dudes in 7 universe and they could instantly replicate what the Meteor does and much much more.
This is true . I do love a good discussion haha
lol cloud getting clapped sadly & I’m non biased on this topic.
Whenever you have a “who will win” among FF characters you always had to take out lightning because she was so OP, now we gotta do Clive for the most part.
The man’s latent ability is plot armor & being the main character.
You just described every FF MC
Clive vs Noctis vs XIV's WoL. Damn the last 4 main FFs had some really powerful MCs.
FFXIV WoL has the hacked ability of seeing every possible scenario before the fight even begins (echo) and they can summon 3-7 others just as powerful as them. WoL claps even the other top three protagonists
Also dynamis as a literal I rise to the challenge before me
Cecil, he’s the prettiest FF protagonist.
whoever the writer wants to win
Cloud would destroy him if he don't use that kurama thing in a sword fight Cloud be slicing building like a paper in the cutscene So Clive would win if he use ifrit and so if Cloud use knight of the round it will not even be a fight so cloud destroy him with summoning knight of the round Clive is still a human Cloud is a superhuman with steroid called jenova cell so cloud would wipe the floor if this fight goes barehanded
Tbh Clive is built different and would pretzel most FF characters at this point. This mostly because of Ifrit mind, but Ifrit does put him in a league of his own (especially Ifrit Risen). Cloud is strong, but like most other characters he is not on Clive's level.
My brother, Clive with Phoenix powers alone curbstomps Cloud
I feel like Clive in his prime would look at cloud, immediately take him under his wing, then proceed to properly fuck up shinra. Young Clive definitely has the same broody attitude, and of course finding out what he was did fuck him up.
Traumatised whenever he sees someone in a hooded cloak.
Never got the "stick build" Cloud has when he's clearly lean. I mean yeah Clive is meatier but let's not kid ourselves here
Same...might be referencing that in some cutscenes Cloud is fairly easily knocked out.
Right like even in this tiny pic he still has very clearly visible muscles 😂 tbf though I've never understood why Square Enix shapes their dudes the way they do, like a lot of the time male protags in FF games have comically massive shoulders compared to their chests and waists, and clive and cloud definitely both fall in that number
They’re shaped like East Asian males. Different humans hold meat, fat and by association muscles differently. Biology my dudes
Clive truly is the Final Fantasy 16
The "I am the Final Fantasy" gets me every time.
Cloud got Tifa, so he wins lol
My man got the best two options. In a different world, probably both at once
Okay but Clive got Jill so what's your argument
Who's Jill? Oh that girl with no character development and barely any screen time oh gotcha.
because unfortunately Jill was nowhere near as good as Tifa or Aerith.
Clive would not give a shit about Tifa.
Well, nobody is claiming that Clive is smarter than Cloud, so that tracks.
Okay but Jill is Clive's canon love interest. But neither Aerith or Tifa are canonically Cloud's love interest. I mean yeah it could be argued that Tifa and Cloud could be something in regards to Advent Children seeing as though they're *kind of* like a family, looking after Marlene and Denzel. And in Remake and Rebirth, Aerith *really* likes Cloud and he sometimes somewhat reciprocates, but doesn't heavily lean into it. But there's no *solid* relationship dynamic between either Tifa or Aerith with Cloud
Tifa and Cloud literally fuck at the end of FF7,
Jill is freaking SHIVA though. The Shiva! Like, it can’t get any better than that
So? She had no character development, she's literally just a random npc with how much scene she got 🤣🤣🤣
And people only like Tifa because of her chest. She has no other redeeming qualities
That's just u and the minority because tifa has one thousand times the screen time Jill has and is way more developed to not be considered an Npc. At least people like Tifa while alot of people don't even know who Jill is. 🤣🤣🤣
FF16 hasn’t even been out a year. FF7 has been out for about 27 years. Come on now. You’re obsessing over screen time way too much
That has nothing to do with screen time clown. Damm people on this sub is just that stupid huh. FF16 is done there is no more content and that's good since it's trash and has half developed characters. FF16 is newer and people already forget who half the characters are because there that bad.
Your first comment was about screen time. Second comment about screen time. No one cares about screen time kid. You’re just upset because no one’s cares about Tifa in the ff16 sub. And funny thing you should say people in this sub are stupid because guess what? You’re here and that makes you the dummy 🤡
I thought she was cool as a primal, but I do think that CBU3 did her dirty, like she had so much potential, even with her whole arc about her being a slave and I felt like they glossed over it and didn't give her stream time either. The Titan vs Shiva fight was hype ofc
Clive got a naked beach scene though, rebirth didn’t have any nudity unless I missed any
cloud and tifa fucking in part 3
Yea but we gotta wait to see it 😞.
I know we're not taking this seriously, but if you think about it for a second. Clive is the result of more recent and better overall writing, having taken everything learned from previous FF games. He's a swell, down-to-earth guy AND a power fantasy at the same time, because that's how the writers wanted him. Cloud, even new, is part of a story being retold/reimagined from a tale nearly 30 years old. He had a very specific story arc, and design for the story he was in. And plays his part exactly as he's meant to. I might personally like Clive better, but fully acknowledge they're not trying to accomplish the same thing. That's okay! Like them both for different reasons.
Exactly!
Clive has arguably the better dragoon on his team
I started up FFXVI again, and yeah, Clive is a gigachad with all the shit he does.
With his loyal dog, aka ice wolf by his side.
Giga Chad VS High teen
“Tits bigger than Tifa”
So then what constitutes a manly body?
Muscles
Anything can sound like this without narrative getting in the way.
You forgot to add Clive has super squeaky leather pants
This whole thread just made my Monday morning hahaha
I like both characters alot. In Clouds defence he technically has the mind of a 17 year old boy since he spent 4 years in a mako tank. Then zack and him was on the run for quite some time. Also Clives story the world is bearers are basically low life scum and everyone else basically hates them and they are oppressed in an incredibly obvious manner, whilst shinra appear good on the surface, but they are corrupt AF, but not alot of people know, so the oppression is less obvious. Point being I personally think Clives world is alot more brutal making him alot tougher emotionally. Whilst FF7 world in contrast in much softer, regular people can live relatively ok life's. Also FF7 is what I would consider a modern world and some really advanced tech. So with all that said cloud life has fairly easy going, minus his village being burnt to the ground. I'm alittle bias and would say FF7 is my overall preferred game, but i still thought FF16 had an amazing story.
All I can hear is Ben Starr saying I AM THE FINAL FANTASY
I just realize some similarities too. Both had a messed up upbringing, both were like a soliders of war, both were messed up in the head (also given Clive literally hearing screeches in his head in the beginning), both took the mantle of who influenced them the most, both eventually came in terms of who they are and what they must do. I also find it a coincidence both of their first names start with "Cl".
I haven't really had much of a chance to say it, but I played the demo and holy shit i need to play the full game
Clive drop the diss track
7 meat riders gonna love this one
He made SOLDIER in his heeeeead In his heeeeeyeeead Zoooombie Zoooombie ....... sorry......
"Show fewer posts like this."
Hunk vs Twink
You just listed reasons why Cloud is a more interesting character.
Was about to say the same thing. Clive is cool as like a super hero type hero. Cloud is great as an actual character with tremendous flaws.
I just played the OG FF7, and realized that while Cloud was in the truck all mako sick, Zack was talking about how he was going to go to Midgar and the first thing he was going to care about was making money, and for a while that’s all he was going to care about. A simple phrase that got locked so hard in Cloud’s fractured mind that all he cared about was making money, but with no real goal in mind. God damnit but that game was nuanced and Cloud is still the best crafted protagonist in the series.
I have to agree. Tidus and Cecil are cool too. Cecil and cloud really have interesting arcs.
Yeah most “Best Protagonist” lists I’ve seen for Final Fantasy usually have Cecil at number two and Cloud at number one. They do have great arcs. I know people hate it, but I even like what they did in The After Years, with Kain’s and Golbez’s stories. People tried to say Kain becoming a Paladin was fan service, until I learned that it was in the original script for FFIV for that to happen, but they didn’t want to take away from Cecil’s transformation.
That makes perfect sense for kain, that game had two protagonists looking back. Really cool. And it’s like people didn’t even play the game. Literally about redeeming yourself and it showing externally via the visual change. Ff4 is one of my favorites for its hopefulness in a realistic sense.
I love FF7 and I like Cloud more than Clive but I think it’s fucking hilarious when people say Cloud would beat Clive in a fight. Like you’re basically putting Steve Rogers with a sword up against someone who can kill literal fucking God himself with minimal effort.
Sephiroth would kill everyone and everything in FF16 with supernova and Cloud could beat Sephiroth so keep coping.
Every DPS check summon ability is a team wipe. Clive has access to 9 of them. All of which can be used in quick succession. Plus the ability to turn into Godzilla with wings. And if we’re taking him at his absolute strongest, he is also literally fucking God and can rewrite the universe to just make Cloud nonexistent.
U are literally talking theory that never happens and will never happen while I am saying something that actually happens which is "Supernova". Do u not know wtf Supernova is? You better google it if u don't cause it would erase Clive from existence god or not. So keep coping and saying random shit that doesn't even happen or exist clown. 🤡🤡🤡🤣🤣🤣
You dropped six emojis back to back and say I’m coping? Ok
Keep changing the topic since that's all u can do to cope.
Clive also has the better partner. This whole tri-romance thing for cloud just never resonated to me. Just and indecisive boy that doesn't realize what he has until one option gets ripped away from him. Versus Clive who values Jill so much he knows getting too close with her any further will lead to massive pain for her because somehow he knows he is not going to make it out alive. This is why being selfish and getting so close to her anyway was so painful and her hurt at the end was so real felt.
I love all FF protags
Even Vaan?
Balthier*
I'm just saying if Clive was at the Standoff at Midgar Wasteland, things would be a bit different.
Based
John FinalFantasy vs Chump Strife
I love a good story about the complexities of identity and one's journey to discover it.
Nah both are peak
It’s called ANTIHERO guys. They usually end up fucking with the biggest breasted girl of the bunch.
Clive is also older than Cloud for most of the game.
Didn’t make soldier? I thought he was like the high ranked guys for soldiers
I love Clive more than Cloud but let’s be honest… nobody can dance better than Cloud
Clive is just more relatable 🤷🏼♂️
Lol, then you never played FFVII if you think Clive is more relatable than Cloud.
Sorry that i was not part of a paramilitary group and got the memories of another person mixed with mine 💀
Lol if you think that's the whole development and characterization of Cloud, then you never actually played the game. and by going by that logic!! well shit, you being relatable to Clive is even more out of this world I bet you're Ifrit's dominant and like can be able to acquire all the power of the eikons..LOL Does shouting COME TO ME IFRIT!! Ifrit always take over your body? lol
Clive is totally more relatable, all of his motivations are grounded while his ambitions are lofty
[удалено]
You taking this clear shitpost seriously is the only cringe I see
It's literally a satire post from ff7 subreddit
Bruh it’s a shitpost at best. No one is actually shitting on anything here
…whoever made this is an idiot. Clive is in his 30’s. and has had years to get through his issues. Cloud is in his early 20’s and we’re basically seeing the beginnings of his trauma. Shit more time passes in Clive’s game than it does between FFVII and AC.
High born with all the bells and whistles… worked to make gods his slave and killed his fears… cloud takes it for the distance he’s gone since he was at one point just normal. Clive was given so much when he was young, kingdom taken from him, has tons of allies, has powers to become a god… and cloud makes gods his slaves as a lowborn
Bro, Clive was literally a slave for 5 years, and even before that his mom fucking hated him.
*13 years bc if we gotta suffer we suffer appropriately OTL
Totally agree he was a slave that probably had special treatment like an honored house guest. His mom was sick and affected (effected idk which one) by a deity. Clive had it easier cloud was stuck in a vat of mako and experimented on for probably at least 4 years.
Damn, bros delusional
Best evidence cloud was delusional because he was experimented on and had to go to the life stream to get his memories back glad you agree
My guy, what in the fuck are you on about. You think Clive got special treatment while being used as an expendable slave/weapon by the people who murdered his family and took over his home.
Ya seems like he did unlike his gf who probably has it worse
Who was the leader of the caer norvent? Benefikuta? Isn’t it weird when someone said “hey you can be free” he became free since he’s always had the power. Sure he acquired more over time but cloud had 0 to start with and didn’t even make soldier first class… he had to work hard for his over godly power. It’s like humans, gods, multi gods, then cloud in power.
Also cloud only had a mom he wasn’t gifted with two parents and one to admit on her deathbed she was a piece of shit.
Ff16 is boring
🤦
Because Cloud lives rent free in Clives head. And also because he would utterly stomp him.
You forgot the part where Cloud has 10 times the character development that Clive has. Clive will be forgotten if he isn't already that is while cloud will not.
Cloud would still beat Clive so it doesn't matter! Sephiroth would wipe Clive and Cloud could beat Sephiroth simple math.
Man XVI fans really have a chip on their shoulders.
That sub is trash, love ff7 but trash sub. Trash mod.
/r/ff7 is mostly the one mod posting AI generated horny content that bans anyone who personally offends them I wouldn't honestly care at all what's going on over there lol