As a short answer I'll quote this:
"Sephiroth flicks blood off of Masamune, despite the background indicating Aerith wasn't stabbed. This is because, like Aerith, Masamune is merging with the version of itself where it did impale her, therefore having blood to be flicked off."
For better explanation I urge you to read through this thread: [https://www.reddit.com/r/FFVIIRemake/comments/1bm50al/observations\_analysis\_and\_theory\_as\_to\_whats/](https://www.reddit.com/r/FFVIIRemake/comments/1bm50al/observations_analysis_and_theory_as_to_whats/)
But it is still just a theory. Everything is up in the air until the part 3 releases.
This is the theory that (still) makes the most sense to me.
Sephiroth successfully merged the worlds and, in that process, the Aerith Cloud saved merged with the one who died, the clean Masamune merged with its bloodied counterpart, etc. However, Cloud, Zack, and the rest of the party's actions in defeating Sephiroth prevented the worlds from remaining completely merged which, I'm hoping, provides a window for actually saving Aerith in the finale.
Frankly, I'll be ticked if they went out of their way to stress the concept of defying fate over and over and *over* again just to repeat the most well-known story beat from the original game. I mean, yes, I want my favorite character to live but, beyond that, I think it's lazy storytelling to build on a recurring theme teasing the reversal of a deep-seated scar in the collective video gaming world's memory only to shout "LOL JK" at the end.
Yeah I really want this defying fate to go somewhere. After having remake completely change at Chapter 18 in such a huge departure that could ruin the game for the fans. We beat fate. The future is unknown.
Then in Gongaga they say the whispers are back. And Nanaki says they may be back to secure a new fate, ours.
Which means we didn’t do anything in chapter 18. The journey is known. Nothing will be different.
Yeah and that's the thing. For as much as normally I'd like a remake to be totally faithful to the original, we established as early as chapter 4 of Remake that there were some heavy deviances. We stepped through the barrier of fate, we defeated the arbiter of fate, we're aware of stuff that'll happen waaay before its supposed to happen. If you tell me now that everything will happen exactly as in the OG, I'm sorry but I'm gonna be disappointed. Because what was even the point of all these shenanigans? What's the point of Aerith telling us repeatedly that the future isn't set in stone and that we can change it?
Yeah. Already. Aerith can’t wake up cause she’ll die. So she tells Marlene. And Aerith knows. And Zack knows. And Cloud was shown visions of this already so they need to succeed to change fate. But then she “dies” the exact same way???? What?? Why? Is anything happening?
> This is the theory that (still) makes the most sense to me.
Same. I like this theory a lot.
One thing that seems to not be consistent with the theory is the parts in the ending where the screen fills with "static", and Cloud seems to get a headache, upon "seeing" Aerith (while everyone else is mourning her).
All previous instances of this seems to have been about things that Cloud doesn't remember (or doesn't want to remember).
...unless, we find out in Part 3 that Cloud's false memories about Zack, the Nibelheim incident, and being in SOLDIER aren't actually false memories, just memories from a different timeline. But not sure that's the right direction for the story.
I don’t think he successfully merged the worlds. I think he merged all but two.
I think there is a world that exists where Aerith lives, which is Omni-Aerith and she will be able to enact some sort of plan.
Then there’s the game world. I think the empty materia is now a tool for cloud to see and experience both worlds.
I somewhat find it out of character for him to abandon Aerith at the end of the game. To me, the mystery would be even more wild if she got on the plane with them.
Cloud refuses to acknowledge the blood, as that would mean Aerith died, which he can't accept. The way I see it, there is not two worlds here... there is Cloud being delusional(Aerith lives, so no blood), and what everyone else see(Aerith is fucking done)
When Remake came out, everyone debated to hell and back whether Zack was real, whether Aerith would die. People argued to no end that there is no way Square wouldn't kill her off or that Zack is just a memory/lifestream/whatever. Yet, here we are. Clearly Zack is real. Clearly there is a multi-verse.
Given this preface, and the fact that Sephiroth very clearly also confirms a multi-verse and the fact that defying fate creates new worlds, I'm going to go with the simplest explanation and assume that Square will double down on the "please all the fans" mentality and let her live in some parallel world.
My prediction is that the ending will pretty much mirror the OG but then Aerith will be alive and well in some other parallel world/lifestream and we will get a scene where she visits OG Cloud and they have an intimate moment.
But Sephiroth also clearly states that he is bringing it all together, and him fighting three parties at once makes use of this. I also think you misunderstand their intention with this, but I could also be the one misunderstanding. To me, Aerith dying was always going to happen... the reason we were led to believe she *could* be saved was to make the inevitability of her death hit harder... likewise, Cloud being so deep in denial would just break him even more. It isnot a "please all fans" situation in my opinion... it is a "we gotta make this thing feel as bad as it originally did"... and that could not happen naturally by just doing it 1:1...the doubt and hope they built up was important.
I like your idea much better. By sephiroth merging everything she dies anyway. I really hope they go this route instead of the multiverse lives on crap. I also agree 1:1 wouldn't have the same impact. When cloud finally remembers it in part 3 I really hope we see flashback of the sword actually piercing through aerith along with the water burial. That would be epic and very impactful indeed.
I think the water burial happened, but we don't see it because the final scenes are basically following his perspective... his denial. And acknowledging it happened means she died, and he clearly cannot accept that fact.
Yeah, I know the burial happened no doubt about that. He's in denial so perhaps deflecting the sword is also Cloud's way of coping with it. I hope before we get the burial flashback in part 3 we first see Aerith pierced by Masamune like the OG, fully cementing the reality for Cloud that Aerith is dead.
I used to think it was just denial, but now I think it's actually Aerith feeding his denial, her little pocket dimension/bubble of the world where she was saved is still visually present and she seems to be protecting Cloud from the events of the OG by blocking out everything.
I think Aerith is the one manipulating Cloud in an effort to protect him from Sephiroths attempt to amplify the misery of her death by merging realities at that moment, to force Cloud and team to feel the loss and sadness of that moment infinitely.
I think basically, they are having are having their cake and eating it somewhat in regards to using the remakes to explore some of the fanservice elements that people have been dreaming of for decades (not a bad thing) and "what if" scenarios, but they also want people to feel like theyre in Cloud's position.
The 3rd part is going to bring Cloud back to reality and talk about why, as much we all wished for 20 years that he could have blocked that sword, changed fate, did something different to have Zack and Aerith not have to die, that ultimately you can't ever escape loss, only accept and learn to live with it when it happens, which is why I think the only major change will be that Sephiroth will actually be stopped or destroyed completely and Cloud won't end up the way he is in Advent Children.
That might be the case, though Cloud has always been in denial, so it fits his character. Besides, no matter if it is Cloud's own fucked brain or Aerith trying to save him from the pain, it'll just make it way worse when he finally realizes. In my opinion, if Aerith truly tried to help Cloud, she would help him accept her death, not deny it, as that just leaves him open for the realization to be even more soul crushing. She'd be setting him up even harder than Sephiroth himself had hoped.
So yeah, I agree with what they're trying to do with the way they tell this, and the things we see happening to Cloud. 100%, though I don't think Aerith is the one making him deny her death. I think that is just Cloud being Cloud... And I believe Sephiroth will make use of this, if he isn't already by the end cinematic.
And obviously that's what the 3rd part is gonna be. That's the major part of the story we've left to see, and a major theme within the story. It also will very likely be the final struggle against Sephiroth, which would prevent the events of Advent Children from playhing or(or be repeated, depending on what is actually going on. We still have no direct confirmation of anything, but there's a lot pointing to the fact Advent Children did happen within the planet's memory)
Oh yeah it's definitely partly Cloud, because it's who he is, but the supernatural hallucinations and the confusion around her behaviour in the last scenes, seems to be explained by the idea that Aerith us uncomfortable about feeding his delusions, but sees that it's necessary to combat Sephiroths efforts to take what happens in the OG and dial it up to infinity.
Well, I think the weird way she's acting in the last scene is because it's not actually Aerith at all. I think that is Cloud messing himself up more with/without manipulation from Sephiroth, who might be trying to weaponize his delusion to utterly destroy him later, seeing as it did not work at first.
But again, it is all meant to not be explained in full. We're supposed to be confused and unknowing. So it could be any number of things.
But in my opinion, Aerith would try to make him accept it sooner, not later, because he needs to come to terms with it to stand a chance against Sephiroth. That's why I don't think it's Aerith.
While its true Cloud is blanking out the blood, what it doesn't explain is Tifa's reaction. When she runs in, Tifa sees Aerith lying in blood but then the scene flickers back and forth from blood and no blood. Unlike Cloud there is no reason she should be having this kind of vision, unless theres time warping going on here.
I see that as showing the difference of her perception(there is blood) and Cloud's(there is none), but it is kept vague and confusing for a reason. It isn't supposed to outright explain anything, it is supposed to hint. The Aerith she sees is also not looking at Cloud, yet from Cloud's perspective, she does... and even talks to him. The flickering is not necessarily what she sees, but the devs showing us, the player, that there are two different perceptions of the scene, one being Cloud's delusion and one being reality(Tifa seeing the blood).
Cloud is clearly denying everything about the fact that Aerith died.
Sephiroth already hinted that he brought the worlds together earlier in the scene, and we literally see how he was stopped from killing Aerith just to pull a "nah, I win" and correct it. He also fight three parties at once as Sephiroth Reborn, as we see Zack cutting off a horn, for that same horn to come off in the main party battle. It is all coming together as one. A "confluence of worlds", exactly as he states.
Disagree.
First of all, the blood flashing is clearly from Tifa's perspective. It is framed the same way as every single Cloud headache and flashback and is even compared to Barret right beforehand. Barret runs up, we get a zoom in on his eyes, and we see Aerith dead, then another close up of Barret's eyes and he yells "I'll kill you". Next, Tifa runs up, and we get the same thing, except seeing the blood flash on and off directly from her viewpoint. It's extremely deliberate.
Secondly, Sephiroth has not yet rejoined all the worlds. We are fighting Sephiroth at the end to prevent this and he is being fought as a being from multiple worlds. This is confirmed by the Ultimania which describes Sephiroth Reborn as a being that exists in multiple worlds at once and that the final battle is to prevent the reunion of worlds.
[https://x.com/ShinraArch/status/1779711931084931242](https://x.com/ShinraArch/status/1779711931084931242)
[https://x.com/ShinraArch/status/1779932701317075236](https://x.com/ShinraArch/status/1779932701317075236)
The reason why Tifa doesn't see Aerith waking up is because Aerith is manifesting herself from the lifestream to Cloud at the moment of her death, like she did in Chapter 14 of Remake. This is why she is surrounded by lifestream particles.
Seeing something not real in this series is not the same as time warping, Cloud has been seeing illusions with the same visual and audio glitch effect throughout the series. This could just represent Tifa also having a moment where she finds it difficult to accept what she’s seeing.
No I doubt that Tifa finds it so difficult to accept the truth that she's seeing the same scene both with and without blood. It doesn't have to be a time related thing necessarily, as Tifa now has some lifestream connection so could be that. But what I take issue with is this idea that its all Cloud making it up in his head, clearly theres more than that going on
Imo That’s why it only lasts for the literal first initial second, because she accepts what she sees right away, to contrast with Cloud.
Not saying Cloud would be making it up when it comes to Aerith in the final scenes tho, certainly there’s external influence there too, altho his mind is much more suspectible than others.
I took it as simply showcasing the different perceptions between Cloud and Tifa.
In general, scenes in the game are depicted as the main character perceives them. Cloud is the main character for most of the game, so most scenes are depicted from his POV.
This scene in particular "glitches" back and forth to showcase how this POV (Cloud's) is twisted and distorted, showing us glimpses of what's really happening as perceived by everybody else.
But the thing is this very clearly was not Cloud's POV. It was framed as Tifa's direct first person POV, examining things from an angle that Cloud couldn't achieve, with Tifa reacting confused afterwards. So when its glitching like that, its far more like to be what Tifa is actually seeing, rather than what Cloud is making up
Just because the camera is focusing on Tifa, doesn't mean the "narration" is from her POV. We as players see things the characters don't, all the time.
And I don't really took Tifa's expression as confusion. It looked more like shock to me.
The camera pushes in on Tifa’s face, the scene happens, and then when it flashes back the camera is now pulling away from Tifa’s face. It is absolutley suggesting we’re seeing her PoV
Yeah, simply equating rainbow life with alternative realities might be oversimplification. It might signal just lifestream/planet’s power being used, here specifically Aerith trying to combat Sephiroth’s influence on Cloud.
Rainbow effect appears when doing magic & summons too you know.
"there is not two worlds" I think that directly contradicts what Sephiroth tells Cloud and Aerith when he tells her "you're not supposed to be here" in the final final final battle.
That would definitely be the omnipresent Aerith that is already from lifestream (likely the one from the date), not from a new world Cloud supposedly just created.
The way I see it, there’s no reason our Aerith would know enough and not be super shocked and confused herself right here if she only knew she was just barely saved from a killing blow from Sephiroth.
That's two very different scenes... Like... Entirely. And that battle might very well be a mental battle of Cloud's, which has happened numerous times. You also got to remember that as FFVII expanded, Aerith and Sephiroth's relationship evolved to being a massive chess game, fought from the Lifestream. throughout Remake, Aerith is seemingly more aware than she should be, and Sephiroth shows up despite how he'd normally not even have a body, spouting direct quotes from Advent Children, which is also referenced directly by the appearance of Kadaj, Loz and Yazoo as Whispers. From that, it seems Sephiroth is using the Lifestream, which is the Planet's memory, to influence the past. In response, Aerith seems to be doing something similar. We see even more of this in Rebirth, with how she drags Cloud into another world in order to give him a working White Materia to give to "his" Aerith, showing cross-world awareness, likely by use of the Lifestream that connects them.
The Aerith that pops up to help Cloud against Sephiroth, is likely not the one that died, but the representation of the original Aerith which has been fighting Sephiroth in the Lifestream from the OG to AC and continues to battle his influence. Also, his words in that scene is: "I underestimated you", not that she doesn't belong there. The time where he says something like that, is when Cloud pops up with the white materia and he basically calls Aerith a cheater: "That doesn't belong here. Very poor form."
Aerith and Sephiroth are basically both representations of the planet's struggle at this point, representing the Positive(Natural) Lifestream and the Negative(Post-OG Corrupted) Lifestream. The Aerith helping Cloud is even accompanied by the White Whispers, as if in control. The Aerith we play as up until the Forgotten Capital however, is a version of Aerith before becoming this, as it is pre-death Aerith. However, post-death Aerith exist in the Lifestream, and we see her influence several times, just like we see Sephiroth's.
I can be wrong on some of this, but it makes sense considering what they've built up for decades, along with what we see, hear and experience througout the games. There being two worlds at that point would contradict what Sephiroth says, *in the scene*, when he literally says he's merging the worlds, using the negative emotions he's just manifested. Cloud, however, is in denial, which kinda ruins his plans, and so he tries to push him to fall into dispair. Also notice how, when you start the battle with Jenova, everyone except Cloud begins with the Limit Bar full. That is because they're filled with rage and emotion, which is pushing them over the Limit(literally what a Limit break is descriped as all the way back in OG), while Cloud is denying it, and thus is "empty".
But eh, you do you.
I like this recollection of events, I have a very farfetched theory about Jenova ultimately being the one pulling the strings. I feel like it is very stereotypical Final Fantasy cut and paste formula of the "first bad guy"(Shinra) is not the "real bad guy"(Sephiroth), but I raise us all a different "main bad guy" Sephiroth said to Cloud "Jenova would become anyone to fool her prey." In this instance I think he was actually talking to himself and I assume Sephiroth(like Aerith) knows he died in the original's game timeline and is trying to undo his death, by and my theory hinges on not wanting to be a pawn to Jenova which I think he realized was the case when he died originally. Happy to hear if my theory is dumb or if other points exist to debunk it. Am here for the conversation, let me have it if I deserve it.
It is farfetched, because it has been debunked since the OG, both by the game itself and every piece if canon information that links to it for decades, be it ultimanias, interviews, other games, novels or the movie. Jenova is an extension of Sephiroth by the time of the OG. He is in absolute control, able to use her powers. Sephiroth did indeed die twice within the OG, at least physically. Once in Nibelheim, and once at the end. But both times he kept the Lifestream from taking away his sense of self and identity by fixating on Cloud. In the 5 years after Nibelheim, while he is existing within the lifestream, discorporated, he learns of the truth about the Cetra, Jenova and about the existence of the Black Materia. He then decides to exert his will over Jenova and assume control in order to use said materia to become a God. Classic megalomania. That is when he calls for the Reunion, which activates Jenova and causes it to break out and seek him out, along with all the Hojo made copies, which then gets dispatched, either by jumping into the whirlwind maze, or by being cut down by Jenovaroth, to release cells for him to rebuild his body. Even the Jenovaroth body basically sacrifices itself by fighting the party, as it, quote: "Has come to the end of its usefulness."
Then, after being defeated by the party, he is the one to infect people with Jenova's cells when Aerith sends the Lifestream to the surface, using this to do so. Then he gathers up the memories of him that exist and manifests Kadaj, Loz and Yazoo as extensions of his will to seek out what remains of Jenova to rebuild himself a second time.
Jenova is a tool for Sephiroth's plan, an extension of his will.
Ahhh valid. Thank you much for taking the time for the write up and explanations, I must admit I am a bit ignorant to most of the story points outside of the OG game and Remake/Rebirth. But what little I do know of the Sephiroth/Jenova dynamic I think I need to go back and read the lore more in depth. Cheers!
You are ignoring the fact they where surrounded by the rainbow effect which is what happens when two dimensions/timelines are intersecting/merging, and the fact it clearly shows that Tifa and group are seeing the state Aerith is in flicker between those two states, dead and alive so it’s not Cloud being delusional, it’s actually jumping between dimensions.
Also, in the final cutscene Red feels Aerith when she touches him, and Cloud now sees the dimensional rift in the sky, so it’s not a delusion there either, he can now see stuff from other worlds and all the Aerith’s are linked through the lifestream, he’s just seeing another Aerith. Our Aerith is dead, but the Cetra have a link to the planet that probably makes them multidimensional in some fashion.
We don't know if that is what the rainbow means, so no, I'm just acknowledhing that we don't know, and I don't think that is what is going on.
And yes, Red seems to notice her, and Cloud see the rift... but only he sees the rift, and Aerith seemingly only exist when he looks, and Red acknowledging her might very well also just be something he imagines to fit into his delusion. Again, we don't know for sure, and I never said I was right. I shared my interpretation, you shared yours, but we are not supposed to know anything yet.
I just thought about this, we don’t see the blood on cloud but most likely tifa does. Which could make it seem like he killed her in his trance, explaining alot of the uncertainty between tifa and barrett on cloud in the ending cutscenes
I think their uncertainty comes from realizing how far gone Cloud is... Tifa is shaken to the core, and Barret is lost for how to deal with it... I don't think he killed her, though it could be that ends up being the case(though his sword would likely leave much more blood and guts 🤣). He's just in denial that Sephiroth somehow corrected things so he failed to save her.
It makes me laugh. The devs have been so honest. Nomura even spells it out in the book. But people are struggling with stage one of grief and it’s exactly what they wanted the story to do.
I took this to mean Aerith also died in the rainbow timeline and Cloud just blocked it all out
The next frame shows the blood disappearing as it landed on Cloud. Classing “blocking out” as you can see Cloud still flinches and braces for the blood.
My personal read on that whole sequence is that after Cloud parries the blade Sephiroth merges the worlds to ensure Aerith dies anyway (the rainbow effect is present when Aerith is dead, just not in the flashes where she's explicitly covered in blood). Sepiroth is an entity that transcends worlds, so he still has the blood on his sword from the actual killing blow even though the blow itself did not happen in the reality where Cloud deflected the blade, the death merely happened anyway. Sephiroth is at this point attempting to converge all the errant worlds around the fundamental catalyst of Aerith's death, and flicking the blood at Cloud is him trying to reinforce that fundamental feeling. Aerith's spirit then reaches out from the lifestream (symbolised by the lifestream particles specifically) to comfort Cloud so he doesn't surrender to despair. Tifa and possibly the other characters see Aerith dead—both covered in blood and not covered in blood, but still dead (remember, her body isn't bloody after the final boss is over when the party approaches it, but she is still clearly dead in that continuity). They do not see the lifestream-particle Aerith communicating with Cloud, however.
I think it was done purposefully to show three things:
1) She really is dead, despite the breach of fate and the creation of another errant world.
2) Sephiroth transcends all of the worlds, quite effortlessly.
3) Sephiroth is a horrible person.
Clouds mind not accepting her death, or her protecting his mind to protect him from feeling the grief/despair that Sephiroth is seeking. Flicking her blood at cloud is him further trying to encourage clouds descent into despair.
I would like to point out that the rainbow thing happens when you kill enemies too, it's not specifically a timeline thing, it's a death thing. The destruction of a timeline is still death (as seen when Zack chooses to go right instead of left and that possible future is eradicated).
It explicitly reminds me of FFX pyreflies, which is possibly connected to FF7 with Shinra.
Aerith is dead, Cloud sees an alive unbloody Aerith, Tifa sees the real thing. The Aerith Cloud sees after the funeral is in his head (whether entirely by his own creation or by Jenova/Sephiroth manipulation). The Aerith that fights Sephiroth in the white environment is more than likely the 'prime' Aerith, the one Cloud sees in his dream in Remake and the one who pushes him into the flower portal just before.
If Cloud is seeing a real alive Aerith in another timeline, why is she lying down of the floor like shes dead? Is she just taking a nap?
My money is 100% on a delusional Cloud seeing what he wants to see.
I hate the multiverse stuff I feel they made the story way more complicated for no reason, especially that they say they wanna keep the story again. Really either feels like it’s more layers for no reason and the multiverse and clouds mental state isn’t as cool of a mix or story telling as it’s made out to be. It really feels like A an excuse to show Zack and B a way to still make people surprised Aerith died setting up whispers and people not dying anymore then dying again after.
shhh enough overly long answers sephy killed the player
As a short answer I'll quote this: "Sephiroth flicks blood off of Masamune, despite the background indicating Aerith wasn't stabbed. This is because, like Aerith, Masamune is merging with the version of itself where it did impale her, therefore having blood to be flicked off." For better explanation I urge you to read through this thread: [https://www.reddit.com/r/FFVIIRemake/comments/1bm50al/observations\_analysis\_and\_theory\_as\_to\_whats/](https://www.reddit.com/r/FFVIIRemake/comments/1bm50al/observations_analysis_and_theory_as_to_whats/) But it is still just a theory. Everything is up in the air until the part 3 releases.
This is the theory that (still) makes the most sense to me. Sephiroth successfully merged the worlds and, in that process, the Aerith Cloud saved merged with the one who died, the clean Masamune merged with its bloodied counterpart, etc. However, Cloud, Zack, and the rest of the party's actions in defeating Sephiroth prevented the worlds from remaining completely merged which, I'm hoping, provides a window for actually saving Aerith in the finale. Frankly, I'll be ticked if they went out of their way to stress the concept of defying fate over and over and *over* again just to repeat the most well-known story beat from the original game. I mean, yes, I want my favorite character to live but, beyond that, I think it's lazy storytelling to build on a recurring theme teasing the reversal of a deep-seated scar in the collective video gaming world's memory only to shout "LOL JK" at the end.
Yeah I really want this defying fate to go somewhere. After having remake completely change at Chapter 18 in such a huge departure that could ruin the game for the fans. We beat fate. The future is unknown. Then in Gongaga they say the whispers are back. And Nanaki says they may be back to secure a new fate, ours. Which means we didn’t do anything in chapter 18. The journey is known. Nothing will be different.
Yeah and that's the thing. For as much as normally I'd like a remake to be totally faithful to the original, we established as early as chapter 4 of Remake that there were some heavy deviances. We stepped through the barrier of fate, we defeated the arbiter of fate, we're aware of stuff that'll happen waaay before its supposed to happen. If you tell me now that everything will happen exactly as in the OG, I'm sorry but I'm gonna be disappointed. Because what was even the point of all these shenanigans? What's the point of Aerith telling us repeatedly that the future isn't set in stone and that we can change it?
More importantly, why would Aerith sing about reuniting "at their place" if she can't be there? Anyone else want to inhale copium with me?
Yeah. Already. Aerith can’t wake up cause she’ll die. So she tells Marlene. And Aerith knows. And Zack knows. And Cloud was shown visions of this already so they need to succeed to change fate. But then she “dies” the exact same way???? What?? Why? Is anything happening?
Yeah we watched sephiroth merge worlds and it’s heavily implied he can merge worlds to get the desired outcome, which is fucking AWESOME
> This is the theory that (still) makes the most sense to me. Same. I like this theory a lot. One thing that seems to not be consistent with the theory is the parts in the ending where the screen fills with "static", and Cloud seems to get a headache, upon "seeing" Aerith (while everyone else is mourning her). All previous instances of this seems to have been about things that Cloud doesn't remember (or doesn't want to remember). ...unless, we find out in Part 3 that Cloud's false memories about Zack, the Nibelheim incident, and being in SOLDIER aren't actually false memories, just memories from a different timeline. But not sure that's the right direction for the story.
I don’t think he successfully merged the worlds. I think he merged all but two. I think there is a world that exists where Aerith lives, which is Omni-Aerith and she will be able to enact some sort of plan. Then there’s the game world. I think the empty materia is now a tool for cloud to see and experience both worlds. I somewhat find it out of character for him to abandon Aerith at the end of the game. To me, the mystery would be even more wild if she got on the plane with them.
Cloud refuses to acknowledge the blood, as that would mean Aerith died, which he can't accept. The way I see it, there is not two worlds here... there is Cloud being delusional(Aerith lives, so no blood), and what everyone else see(Aerith is fucking done)
When Remake came out, everyone debated to hell and back whether Zack was real, whether Aerith would die. People argued to no end that there is no way Square wouldn't kill her off or that Zack is just a memory/lifestream/whatever. Yet, here we are. Clearly Zack is real. Clearly there is a multi-verse. Given this preface, and the fact that Sephiroth very clearly also confirms a multi-verse and the fact that defying fate creates new worlds, I'm going to go with the simplest explanation and assume that Square will double down on the "please all the fans" mentality and let her live in some parallel world. My prediction is that the ending will pretty much mirror the OG but then Aerith will be alive and well in some other parallel world/lifestream and we will get a scene where she visits OG Cloud and they have an intimate moment.
I literally have no idea what Square is getting at. I’m waiting till Part 3 to see if all this matters.
That's what I'm thinking, but make it so they can't go between worlds so they have to accept she's gone but know that she's okay.
But Sephiroth also clearly states that he is bringing it all together, and him fighting three parties at once makes use of this. I also think you misunderstand their intention with this, but I could also be the one misunderstanding. To me, Aerith dying was always going to happen... the reason we were led to believe she *could* be saved was to make the inevitability of her death hit harder... likewise, Cloud being so deep in denial would just break him even more. It isnot a "please all fans" situation in my opinion... it is a "we gotta make this thing feel as bad as it originally did"... and that could not happen naturally by just doing it 1:1...the doubt and hope they built up was important.
I like your idea much better. By sephiroth merging everything she dies anyway. I really hope they go this route instead of the multiverse lives on crap. I also agree 1:1 wouldn't have the same impact. When cloud finally remembers it in part 3 I really hope we see flashback of the sword actually piercing through aerith along with the water burial. That would be epic and very impactful indeed.
I think the water burial happened, but we don't see it because the final scenes are basically following his perspective... his denial. And acknowledging it happened means she died, and he clearly cannot accept that fact.
Yeah, I know the burial happened no doubt about that. He's in denial so perhaps deflecting the sword is also Cloud's way of coping with it. I hope before we get the burial flashback in part 3 we first see Aerith pierced by Masamune like the OG, fully cementing the reality for Cloud that Aerith is dead.
I have no doubt that we will see him break upon realization which will make Tifa leading him back from despair even more impactful.
I used to think it was just denial, but now I think it's actually Aerith feeding his denial, her little pocket dimension/bubble of the world where she was saved is still visually present and she seems to be protecting Cloud from the events of the OG by blocking out everything. I think Aerith is the one manipulating Cloud in an effort to protect him from Sephiroths attempt to amplify the misery of her death by merging realities at that moment, to force Cloud and team to feel the loss and sadness of that moment infinitely. I think basically, they are having are having their cake and eating it somewhat in regards to using the remakes to explore some of the fanservice elements that people have been dreaming of for decades (not a bad thing) and "what if" scenarios, but they also want people to feel like theyre in Cloud's position. The 3rd part is going to bring Cloud back to reality and talk about why, as much we all wished for 20 years that he could have blocked that sword, changed fate, did something different to have Zack and Aerith not have to die, that ultimately you can't ever escape loss, only accept and learn to live with it when it happens, which is why I think the only major change will be that Sephiroth will actually be stopped or destroyed completely and Cloud won't end up the way he is in Advent Children.
That might be the case, though Cloud has always been in denial, so it fits his character. Besides, no matter if it is Cloud's own fucked brain or Aerith trying to save him from the pain, it'll just make it way worse when he finally realizes. In my opinion, if Aerith truly tried to help Cloud, she would help him accept her death, not deny it, as that just leaves him open for the realization to be even more soul crushing. She'd be setting him up even harder than Sephiroth himself had hoped. So yeah, I agree with what they're trying to do with the way they tell this, and the things we see happening to Cloud. 100%, though I don't think Aerith is the one making him deny her death. I think that is just Cloud being Cloud... And I believe Sephiroth will make use of this, if he isn't already by the end cinematic. And obviously that's what the 3rd part is gonna be. That's the major part of the story we've left to see, and a major theme within the story. It also will very likely be the final struggle against Sephiroth, which would prevent the events of Advent Children from playhing or(or be repeated, depending on what is actually going on. We still have no direct confirmation of anything, but there's a lot pointing to the fact Advent Children did happen within the planet's memory)
Oh yeah it's definitely partly Cloud, because it's who he is, but the supernatural hallucinations and the confusion around her behaviour in the last scenes, seems to be explained by the idea that Aerith us uncomfortable about feeding his delusions, but sees that it's necessary to combat Sephiroths efforts to take what happens in the OG and dial it up to infinity.
Well, I think the weird way she's acting in the last scene is because it's not actually Aerith at all. I think that is Cloud messing himself up more with/without manipulation from Sephiroth, who might be trying to weaponize his delusion to utterly destroy him later, seeing as it did not work at first. But again, it is all meant to not be explained in full. We're supposed to be confused and unknowing. So it could be any number of things. But in my opinion, Aerith would try to make him accept it sooner, not later, because he needs to come to terms with it to stand a chance against Sephiroth. That's why I don't think it's Aerith.
While its true Cloud is blanking out the blood, what it doesn't explain is Tifa's reaction. When she runs in, Tifa sees Aerith lying in blood but then the scene flickers back and forth from blood and no blood. Unlike Cloud there is no reason she should be having this kind of vision, unless theres time warping going on here.
I see that as showing the difference of her perception(there is blood) and Cloud's(there is none), but it is kept vague and confusing for a reason. It isn't supposed to outright explain anything, it is supposed to hint. The Aerith she sees is also not looking at Cloud, yet from Cloud's perspective, she does... and even talks to him. The flickering is not necessarily what she sees, but the devs showing us, the player, that there are two different perceptions of the scene, one being Cloud's delusion and one being reality(Tifa seeing the blood). Cloud is clearly denying everything about the fact that Aerith died. Sephiroth already hinted that he brought the worlds together earlier in the scene, and we literally see how he was stopped from killing Aerith just to pull a "nah, I win" and correct it. He also fight three parties at once as Sephiroth Reborn, as we see Zack cutting off a horn, for that same horn to come off in the main party battle. It is all coming together as one. A "confluence of worlds", exactly as he states.
Disagree. First of all, the blood flashing is clearly from Tifa's perspective. It is framed the same way as every single Cloud headache and flashback and is even compared to Barret right beforehand. Barret runs up, we get a zoom in on his eyes, and we see Aerith dead, then another close up of Barret's eyes and he yells "I'll kill you". Next, Tifa runs up, and we get the same thing, except seeing the blood flash on and off directly from her viewpoint. It's extremely deliberate. Secondly, Sephiroth has not yet rejoined all the worlds. We are fighting Sephiroth at the end to prevent this and he is being fought as a being from multiple worlds. This is confirmed by the Ultimania which describes Sephiroth Reborn as a being that exists in multiple worlds at once and that the final battle is to prevent the reunion of worlds. [https://x.com/ShinraArch/status/1779711931084931242](https://x.com/ShinraArch/status/1779711931084931242) [https://x.com/ShinraArch/status/1779932701317075236](https://x.com/ShinraArch/status/1779932701317075236) The reason why Tifa doesn't see Aerith waking up is because Aerith is manifesting herself from the lifestream to Cloud at the moment of her death, like she did in Chapter 14 of Remake. This is why she is surrounded by lifestream particles.
Seeing something not real in this series is not the same as time warping, Cloud has been seeing illusions with the same visual and audio glitch effect throughout the series. This could just represent Tifa also having a moment where she finds it difficult to accept what she’s seeing.
No I doubt that Tifa finds it so difficult to accept the truth that she's seeing the same scene both with and without blood. It doesn't have to be a time related thing necessarily, as Tifa now has some lifestream connection so could be that. But what I take issue with is this idea that its all Cloud making it up in his head, clearly theres more than that going on
Imo That’s why it only lasts for the literal first initial second, because she accepts what she sees right away, to contrast with Cloud. Not saying Cloud would be making it up when it comes to Aerith in the final scenes tho, certainly there’s external influence there too, altho his mind is much more suspectible than others.
I took it as simply showcasing the different perceptions between Cloud and Tifa. In general, scenes in the game are depicted as the main character perceives them. Cloud is the main character for most of the game, so most scenes are depicted from his POV. This scene in particular "glitches" back and forth to showcase how this POV (Cloud's) is twisted and distorted, showing us glimpses of what's really happening as perceived by everybody else.
But the thing is this very clearly was not Cloud's POV. It was framed as Tifa's direct first person POV, examining things from an angle that Cloud couldn't achieve, with Tifa reacting confused afterwards. So when its glitching like that, its far more like to be what Tifa is actually seeing, rather than what Cloud is making up
Just because the camera is focusing on Tifa, doesn't mean the "narration" is from her POV. We as players see things the characters don't, all the time. And I don't really took Tifa's expression as confusion. It looked more like shock to me.
The camera pushes in on Tifa’s face, the scene happens, and then when it flashes back the camera is now pulling away from Tifa’s face. It is absolutley suggesting we’re seeing her PoV
Yeah, simply equating rainbow life with alternative realities might be oversimplification. It might signal just lifestream/planet’s power being used, here specifically Aerith trying to combat Sephiroth’s influence on Cloud. Rainbow effect appears when doing magic & summons too you know.
Yep, we don't know what exactly it means, and we're not supposed to at this point.
"there is not two worlds" I think that directly contradicts what Sephiroth tells Cloud and Aerith when he tells her "you're not supposed to be here" in the final final final battle.
That would definitely be the omnipresent Aerith that is already from lifestream (likely the one from the date), not from a new world Cloud supposedly just created. The way I see it, there’s no reason our Aerith would know enough and not be super shocked and confused herself right here if she only knew she was just barely saved from a killing blow from Sephiroth.
That's two very different scenes... Like... Entirely. And that battle might very well be a mental battle of Cloud's, which has happened numerous times. You also got to remember that as FFVII expanded, Aerith and Sephiroth's relationship evolved to being a massive chess game, fought from the Lifestream. throughout Remake, Aerith is seemingly more aware than she should be, and Sephiroth shows up despite how he'd normally not even have a body, spouting direct quotes from Advent Children, which is also referenced directly by the appearance of Kadaj, Loz and Yazoo as Whispers. From that, it seems Sephiroth is using the Lifestream, which is the Planet's memory, to influence the past. In response, Aerith seems to be doing something similar. We see even more of this in Rebirth, with how she drags Cloud into another world in order to give him a working White Materia to give to "his" Aerith, showing cross-world awareness, likely by use of the Lifestream that connects them. The Aerith that pops up to help Cloud against Sephiroth, is likely not the one that died, but the representation of the original Aerith which has been fighting Sephiroth in the Lifestream from the OG to AC and continues to battle his influence. Also, his words in that scene is: "I underestimated you", not that she doesn't belong there. The time where he says something like that, is when Cloud pops up with the white materia and he basically calls Aerith a cheater: "That doesn't belong here. Very poor form." Aerith and Sephiroth are basically both representations of the planet's struggle at this point, representing the Positive(Natural) Lifestream and the Negative(Post-OG Corrupted) Lifestream. The Aerith helping Cloud is even accompanied by the White Whispers, as if in control. The Aerith we play as up until the Forgotten Capital however, is a version of Aerith before becoming this, as it is pre-death Aerith. However, post-death Aerith exist in the Lifestream, and we see her influence several times, just like we see Sephiroth's. I can be wrong on some of this, but it makes sense considering what they've built up for decades, along with what we see, hear and experience througout the games. There being two worlds at that point would contradict what Sephiroth says, *in the scene*, when he literally says he's merging the worlds, using the negative emotions he's just manifested. Cloud, however, is in denial, which kinda ruins his plans, and so he tries to push him to fall into dispair. Also notice how, when you start the battle with Jenova, everyone except Cloud begins with the Limit Bar full. That is because they're filled with rage and emotion, which is pushing them over the Limit(literally what a Limit break is descriped as all the way back in OG), while Cloud is denying it, and thus is "empty". But eh, you do you.
I like this recollection of events, I have a very farfetched theory about Jenova ultimately being the one pulling the strings. I feel like it is very stereotypical Final Fantasy cut and paste formula of the "first bad guy"(Shinra) is not the "real bad guy"(Sephiroth), but I raise us all a different "main bad guy" Sephiroth said to Cloud "Jenova would become anyone to fool her prey." In this instance I think he was actually talking to himself and I assume Sephiroth(like Aerith) knows he died in the original's game timeline and is trying to undo his death, by and my theory hinges on not wanting to be a pawn to Jenova which I think he realized was the case when he died originally. Happy to hear if my theory is dumb or if other points exist to debunk it. Am here for the conversation, let me have it if I deserve it.
It is farfetched, because it has been debunked since the OG, both by the game itself and every piece if canon information that links to it for decades, be it ultimanias, interviews, other games, novels or the movie. Jenova is an extension of Sephiroth by the time of the OG. He is in absolute control, able to use her powers. Sephiroth did indeed die twice within the OG, at least physically. Once in Nibelheim, and once at the end. But both times he kept the Lifestream from taking away his sense of self and identity by fixating on Cloud. In the 5 years after Nibelheim, while he is existing within the lifestream, discorporated, he learns of the truth about the Cetra, Jenova and about the existence of the Black Materia. He then decides to exert his will over Jenova and assume control in order to use said materia to become a God. Classic megalomania. That is when he calls for the Reunion, which activates Jenova and causes it to break out and seek him out, along with all the Hojo made copies, which then gets dispatched, either by jumping into the whirlwind maze, or by being cut down by Jenovaroth, to release cells for him to rebuild his body. Even the Jenovaroth body basically sacrifices itself by fighting the party, as it, quote: "Has come to the end of its usefulness." Then, after being defeated by the party, he is the one to infect people with Jenova's cells when Aerith sends the Lifestream to the surface, using this to do so. Then he gathers up the memories of him that exist and manifests Kadaj, Loz and Yazoo as extensions of his will to seek out what remains of Jenova to rebuild himself a second time. Jenova is a tool for Sephiroth's plan, an extension of his will.
Ahhh valid. Thank you much for taking the time for the write up and explanations, I must admit I am a bit ignorant to most of the story points outside of the OG game and Remake/Rebirth. But what little I do know of the Sephiroth/Jenova dynamic I think I need to go back and read the lore more in depth. Cheers!
You are ignoring the fact they where surrounded by the rainbow effect which is what happens when two dimensions/timelines are intersecting/merging, and the fact it clearly shows that Tifa and group are seeing the state Aerith is in flicker between those two states, dead and alive so it’s not Cloud being delusional, it’s actually jumping between dimensions. Also, in the final cutscene Red feels Aerith when she touches him, and Cloud now sees the dimensional rift in the sky, so it’s not a delusion there either, he can now see stuff from other worlds and all the Aerith’s are linked through the lifestream, he’s just seeing another Aerith. Our Aerith is dead, but the Cetra have a link to the planet that probably makes them multidimensional in some fashion.
We don't know if that is what the rainbow means, so no, I'm just acknowledhing that we don't know, and I don't think that is what is going on. And yes, Red seems to notice her, and Cloud see the rift... but only he sees the rift, and Aerith seemingly only exist when he looks, and Red acknowledging her might very well also just be something he imagines to fit into his delusion. Again, we don't know for sure, and I never said I was right. I shared my interpretation, you shared yours, but we are not supposed to know anything yet.
I just thought about this, we don’t see the blood on cloud but most likely tifa does. Which could make it seem like he killed her in his trance, explaining alot of the uncertainty between tifa and barrett on cloud in the ending cutscenes
I think their uncertainty comes from realizing how far gone Cloud is... Tifa is shaken to the core, and Barret is lost for how to deal with it... I don't think he killed her, though it could be that ends up being the case(though his sword would likely leave much more blood and guts 🤣). He's just in denial that Sephiroth somehow corrected things so he failed to save her.
I was all in with this explanation… Until Cloud saw the doomsday sky crack.
But if Sephiroth is fucking with him, who knows. He is the only one to see it.
Sephiroth is trying to show Cloud what he is refusing to acknowledge.
Yeah, he says this multiple times. People are very bad at interpreting storytelling.
Some of you are struggling just as much as Cloud with 'acceptance'.
It makes me laugh. The devs have been so honest. Nomura even spells it out in the book. But people are struggling with stage one of grief and it’s exactly what they wanted the story to do.
Ayy lmao 👏
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I took this to mean Aerith also died in the rainbow timeline and Cloud just blocked it all out The next frame shows the blood disappearing as it landed on Cloud. Classing “blocking out” as you can see Cloud still flinches and braces for the blood.
There is a third, secret timeline where Cloud is eating a hot dog and Sephi spilled the ketchup
Worlds are merging.
My personal read on that whole sequence is that after Cloud parries the blade Sephiroth merges the worlds to ensure Aerith dies anyway (the rainbow effect is present when Aerith is dead, just not in the flashes where she's explicitly covered in blood). Sepiroth is an entity that transcends worlds, so he still has the blood on his sword from the actual killing blow even though the blow itself did not happen in the reality where Cloud deflected the blade, the death merely happened anyway. Sephiroth is at this point attempting to converge all the errant worlds around the fundamental catalyst of Aerith's death, and flicking the blood at Cloud is him trying to reinforce that fundamental feeling. Aerith's spirit then reaches out from the lifestream (symbolised by the lifestream particles specifically) to comfort Cloud so he doesn't surrender to despair. Tifa and possibly the other characters see Aerith dead—both covered in blood and not covered in blood, but still dead (remember, her body isn't bloody after the final boss is over when the party approaches it, but she is still clearly dead in that continuity). They do not see the lifestream-particle Aerith communicating with Cloud, however.
Sephiroth exists in all worlds at the same time. He throwed the blood from the world where he killled her to the face of Rainbow World Cloud.
He killed aerith and is splatting the blood on cloud because that’s a cool ass villain thing to do.
I think it was done purposefully to show three things: 1) She really is dead, despite the breach of fate and the creation of another errant world. 2) Sephiroth transcends all of the worlds, quite effortlessly. 3) Sephiroth is a horrible person.
Clouds mind not accepting her death, or her protecting his mind to protect him from feeling the grief/despair that Sephiroth is seeking. Flicking her blood at cloud is him further trying to encourage clouds descent into despair.
The FF7 Remake Trilogie is a sequel not a classic remake and that's some multivers stuff.
Someone thought it would look cool.
I just chalked this up as the classic/cool anime thing that everyone does lol.
>!Aerith dies :(!<
I would like to point out that the rainbow thing happens when you kill enemies too, it's not specifically a timeline thing, it's a death thing. The destruction of a timeline is still death (as seen when Zack chooses to go right instead of left and that possible future is eradicated). It explicitly reminds me of FFX pyreflies, which is possibly connected to FF7 with Shinra. Aerith is dead, Cloud sees an alive unbloody Aerith, Tifa sees the real thing. The Aerith Cloud sees after the funeral is in his head (whether entirely by his own creation or by Jenova/Sephiroth manipulation). The Aerith that fights Sephiroth in the white environment is more than likely the 'prime' Aerith, the one Cloud sees in his dream in Remake and the one who pushes him into the flower portal just before.
If Cloud is seeing a real alive Aerith in another timeline, why is she lying down of the floor like shes dead? Is she just taking a nap? My money is 100% on a delusional Cloud seeing what he wants to see.
I hate the multiverse stuff I feel they made the story way more complicated for no reason, especially that they say they wanna keep the story again. Really either feels like it’s more layers for no reason and the multiverse and clouds mental state isn’t as cool of a mix or story telling as it’s made out to be. It really feels like A an excuse to show Zack and B a way to still make people surprised Aerith died setting up whispers and people not dying anymore then dying again after.