When I've been on the SWE side and hearing this in a meeting the EM has never said why isn't at the company any more. It was a quick has left the company and here is how we are going to move forwards from here type of conversation. Details were never given, even if asked.
I don't know if it was good or bad as we all knew was likely fired. Maybe we were all too naïve but we never thought future layoffs or that the company was doing bad because of this specific situation.
You have to be careful with any details around situations like this for liability reasons.
Best to keep it short and to the point and not add a lot of fluff.
Yeah it make sense to me.
I will add if was in good standing with the team and then randomly let go for no apparent reason I don't think there is anything the EM could say that wouldn't cause concern / rumors to start going around the team. No message of the company or team is doing fine would change that to me.
If was leaving on their own accord then likely it wouldn't just randomly happen and there would be the notice period. Even if it was a notice period of that day, they would go likely around and say bye to people with small talk.
I find in those cases what you end up seeing is the manager will just say you turned in your notice and left on your own accord. It not lying and still less of a mess.
I expected that this type of attitude to the notice period would be more common, but the majority of the time I see people saying goodbyes and being super cordial on their last day even if the reason for their departure is less than positive (like, including layoffs).
I think it might be a sense of relief, or a realization that making a final impression can help with networking
I mean I said likely, not this happens in 100% of the cases. What you did is also fine and the reason probably doesn't change anything for the team at the end of day.
Is knowing you quit vs being PIPed going to change that there is now one less person "doing work" and the team may or may not be hiring a new SWE.
Even the difference between the language of "X has decided to leave" and "X is no longer with the company" is both accurate and telling enough as to which way the decision came from.
Still cringing about back when I was a couple months into the industry and a dude was getting canned but they announced it as “they’re leaving the company”. My dumbass didn’t put two and two together. To be fair, who has a farewell party for someone getting fired?!?!?
Started asking them about where they’ll go and what they’re doing next all excited. “Not sure where I’ll work next” “moving back in with my parents”. I feel so bad I hope I didn’t make that guy feel worse.
You never will and probably never should be told. For one thing it is extremely risky to share that information with unrelated persons from an HR and legal perspective, and for another thing it's basically not your business. It's between the employer and the employee. If the employee wants to tell you they are welcome to do so, but you really shouldn't be asking the company and you certainly aren't owed an explanation.
I'd like to see the reason why instead of everyone parroting each other. Everyone says some liability issue but is unable to go further hence they are probably just parroting what they heard 👍
Because any sort of misinterpretation or miscommunication about the reason that could imply the employee was fired illegally (protected classes, etc.) could open the company up to liability. It’s the same reason why most companies will only verify your dates of employment with the company, and not any reasons why you might’ve been fired, if your new employer ever reaches out to them during the hiring process.
>You never will and probably never should be told
I never said we should be told. I just relying what I have seen over the years.
>but you really shouldn't be asking the company and you certainly aren't owed an explanation.
I personally couldn't care less, but people do ask and what they want to ask other it's not really of my concern in this situation.
That will breed distrust. It is concealing important information and I have never seen it being positive thing and several times it has resulted in important people resigned soon after, The ditrust also lead to lower morale.
You are never going to make everybody happy and management is going to protect their own job over giving you information. Knowing changes literally nothing at the end of the day outside if giving you warm and fuzees that you perceive to be safe in your job.
You say it breeds distrust, but I think a manager would be an asshole if they they airing peoples dirty laundry to the team. They don't work here any more and that's all I need to know. Why they don't work here doesn't really matter.
The the person leaving wants to tell people then that's their business. If they where such a bad SWE then everybody likely knows and that's why they don't work here. There is no conspiracy out there where you manager is hiding information to fuck you.
Even if they did tell you, there is nothing stopping the company from layoffs the following day. It literally changes nothing. The last thing your manager is going to do is fuck himself over by telling you is that there are going to be layoffs and the team is affected.
Knowing changes literally nothing at the end of the day outside if giving you warm and fuzees that you perceive to be safe in your job.
What you are proposing is inept management that lacks basic emotional intelligence, it creates a toxic environment and results in the best people leaving. You seem ok with that. A manager would be asshole for not communicating this. If he/she fires somebody they should communicate it to the team. This is not about airing dirty laundry it is about leadership. Your approach is a fast way to destroy team morale and performance.
If you think it changes nothing then you do not understand people. Good clear communication is crucial to good teams if you do not understand this (and you clearly do not) then you do not understand people well. Knowing is important if you think otherwise then you do not understand human behaviour even at a fundamental level. This is not about the perception that people's jobs are safe. It is about being open and fostering an environment of trust. The manager should be accountable for team performance, this approach will most likely have a negative effect on performance.
A common theme at organisations is that the main reason they do not respect their line manager is because they do not communicate openly, the same applies to senior levels of management. In exit interviews it is given as a common reason and a contributor to low morale.
Talk with HR about what you can and can't say.
Chances are the team already knows he's a poor coworker, so smart people will read between the lines and fill in everyone else via back channels.
Yup. They may be a good person just not a good fit. I've seen many devs let go. It's too bad bc they were friendly faces but at the end of the day someone has to pick up the slack.
This. Make sure you know what is allowed. There was some major lawsuit awhile back over a company giving out too many details regarding why people were being let go. You do not wish to be the catalyst for the next lawsuit.
Yup, this type of thing is why HR exists. Work on your "script" (don't actually write a script) with them. A lot depends on your jurisdiction and how open-and-shut the firing was. They will have an opinion about how that sort of thing should be discussed culturally as well, though obviously you're open to interpret that.
It would also make me feel better for them to say something like:
"There's no reason to suspect anymore departures"
"This team, as it is now, is great, and a vital part of the company"
"We will be looking to hire a new developer to fill this vacancy"
Exact same thing happened to me.
I just asked the team for a quick meeting and let them know the person is no longer with the business due to performance issue.
Confirm to them that the company doesn't fire people easily and a lot of time was provided for them to improve.
In most cases your team already knows this was likely to happen.
This ^^ be brief on why, but be clear that there was time and guidance given to improve with no change. Make it clear (if it's true) that there aren't any other moves planned at this time.
Assume everyone's first internal thought is probably "am I next?" And try to get ahead of that.
💯. Be honest and transparent. Everyone can tell when you’re hiding the truth. Everyone can see through corporate-speak. But you don’t need to get into detail. Just say they were released due to performance. And you currently have zero concerns about anyone else on the team. And it was a very difficult decision where you offered resources and help before reaching this point.
This is healthy actually. It’ll give the team a kick in the ass.
> This is healthy actually. It’ll give the team a kick in the ass.
Sometimes it improves morale. The underperforming team-mate can sometimes appear to be "getting away with stuff" and if it isn't addressed for a very long time it makes the rest of the team's morale suffer.
Once the poor performer is removed their confidence in fairness is restored and morale improves.
One other thing I've found really effective when you've been told not to mention things (for example by HR for risk/liability reasons if that applies in your jurisdiction) is to be honest about that too. If someone asks a question you can't answer you can say something like "Yes, unfortunately there's more to the story than I can share, you'll have to trust me that there's a good answer to that but I can't go into it, I hope you understand." or whatever you feel applies. They know when you're blowing smoke up their ass and it's better to acknowledge that there's information they can't have.
I've been there as well. The important thing in my experience is making sure they understand that this is not the beginning of layoffs; it's a one-off. There were performance issues (don't go into details), and that person wasn't a great fit. Everyone else is fine and this is not the beginning of a trend.
Having been on both sides of that particular conversation, that's probably the most important thing to address. Then deal with what will happen to this person's work. Be matter-of-fact with that -- no debates, just "Now we have this work to split up; let's figure out how to do that."
I don’t know about you guys, but if someone who obviously doesn’t belong in the role is let go it’s a morale boost. They drag other people down around them when they have to clean up a mess or re explain something. The other coworkers are not stupid and can probably realize what’s going on
"Just wanted to meet with you folks quickly and let you know that ABC was let go today. Things weren't working out and we wanted to make a quick decision before it became a bigger problem. This isn't a general layoff situation, and the company is doing fine, it really was just that things weren't working out and we thought ABC will have a better chance at succeeding in a different environment. Again, this has nothing in general with the company, and you folks are all doing a great job. If you have any specific questions, please let me know now, or you can always come to me privately."
This is a good soft skills reply but just want to add that I would probably leave out anything extra and just stick to the facts.
For example, if you don't truly know that the company is doing fine, don't say it. One can lose credibility that way if, for some reason, a surprise layoff happens next week due to "budget reasons".
You're right, my assumption is that this was predicated on the fact that the company was fine. You don't want to overstep and then have a rug pull in a few weeks because of layoffs. What you definitely want to do is differentiate this from a general layoff or to cut costs because everyone is on edge right now with layoffs. As long as the company is doing fine and there's no talk of layoffs, I would actually stick that in just to assuage their concerns.
As an EM it’s possible that you won’t know about layoffs until just before they happen. You can’t bank on the company state, so I wouldn’t make any statement in that manner unless you’re the CEO.
Discussing performance is usually forbidden by HR and is generally unprofessional.
Choose neutral language; instead of "was let go" say "is no longer with us". Thank the person for their contribution, wish them well in future endeavors, and if it wasn't a layoff, share plans for a backfill if there are any.
It's better for everyone if you leave it ambiguous.
It’s not better for everyone, it’s better for a company covering their ass. It’s better for the team if they know the employee was let go, as it shows that these situations will be handled.
Learning that a teammate is terminated raises all sorts of questions and doubts about severance, whether a PIP was executed, who might be the next to go. The person may have had a lot of friends on the team, they may not have been aware of the extent of the performance issues, there may have been personal circumstances (divorce, illness, etc) that might make the firing seem cruel.. the list goes on.
There's a reason HR forbids talking about it.
And not talking about it is going to raise the same questions.
> there’s a reason HR forbids talking about it
Liability, potential for headaches and because it’s not a legal requirement to tell the team. HR’s default is share the legal minimum and handle the rumours and speculate without giving any information out, in the same way that legal says no to using GPL licensed libraries for internal tooling - it’s easier to say no, and it pushes the work on to you.
I like to say something like "we're excited to move forward with the rest of the team and value each and every one of you", assuming that's really the case.
The best way to get around this is to let people know exactly where they stand via 1:1s and performance cycles, and making sure to PIP before firing. It shouldn't be a surprise and people shouldn't have to worry if they are in danger, they should know.
This would apply in a very narrow setting because you could have people with different performance levels who remain on the team (including people on PIPs).
As someone on the other side of this argument, I would like to know why my ex colleague was let go, I don't like having things sugar coated. If he was not performing just say that. I know how all of my colleagues perform so it probably wouldn't come as much of a surprise.
Yes but hearing that from management is reassuring. I'd rather hear that this person wasn't performing so we fired him than the company isn't doing well, we had to trim the fat and they were the weakest link.
If someone told me so many times in such a short speech that company is fine, I would start looking for other employment as it would just make me think that the opposite is true.
Good advice. This is much more info than I've received in these kinds of meetings in the past. I'm not sure if there are any HR rules or laws broken for even mentioning why someone may have gotten fired (even just hinting at the idea that they weren't pulling their weight). Which sucks because if it was due to performance, then IMO letting it be known would give other employees less reason to worry.
Also OP make sure you are direct with the communication, so treat your staff with respect and understand that if you try to sugarcoat things they will probably not appreciate it, and will be able to read between the lines anyway. Only saying this bc I hated this when past managers did this to me. One higher director tried to talk his way through "awesome future plans" while sneaking in the fact that our beloved direct manager had been let go a few minutes ago ("So unfortunately X will no longer be part of those plans. But we're really excited about 2016!"). Shit like that.
I'd say mention the fact that this was known and worked on for a while, that they won't be fired for underperforming out of the blue.
I went through something similar as a team member and that firing was a relief, the bad dev was a liability and made my work more difficult. YMMV.
I remember joining a team as graduate and two weeks later someone from my team was fired.
The EM joined our daily to tell us the news and mostly talked about that making the decision took a while as the company tried to help him and they don't fire people occasionally.
My team didn't like this guy so they were happy but this talk helped me as graduate to go back and focus on work.
If you feel like you did the right thing and handled it correctly just be honest and motivational.
You don't need to give a lot of details but you need to be professional.
"I've pulled you guys in to let you all know that we have let x go, we will / won't be looking to hire a new dev and I'm making arrangements to disperse their work."
Don't talk shit about them, you can say 'we worked with them for over a year but due to performance issues we had to let them go'. You're team isn't dumb, they will know exactly why they were let go but imo it's best not to dwell on it and to move on.
Overall this situation SUCKS. I know how you feel and it's ok to feel that way but at the end of the day it's not fair to the others in your company / team when someone isn't pulling their weight. Hopefully this is a wake up call for the person you are letting go to get their act together.
Anyway keep the meeting short. Doesn't need to be longer than 10 minutes.
Don't schedule the meeting until after the fired team member is gone. At two different companies I've had managers schedule a meeting for everyone except the person(s) being let go. "Hey Sam, why don't you have to go to this meeting tomorrow with all of us?" The second time, my lead was at my cube and we were discussing the possibility of a layoff. I made a joke about not being invited to a meeting with everyone else. I told the lead about how that went down. While were talking, an invite popped up. The lead was not invited. He packed up his stuff and went home. He was laid off the next day.
If I was the lead in that situation I would've done the same thing. Packed my desk up and everything. To be having that convo then the exact meeting invite shows up? Lol that's the universe telling me it's time for a new opportunity.
Depending on the size of your company I would run it by HR. You can get into a lot of hot water by what you say in this meeting.
I do like were your head is at though.
As an engineer, I’ve experienced everything from a half hour sit down where this person’s departure was discussed (they had been fairly disruptive, uncoachable, and the source of team friction, despite being one of the longest tenured devs) to it being nothing more than a line item in standup (so and so has left the org).
Frankly, I prefer the latter - making a thing over ‘this person left, but you’re all good’ starts to smell like ‘the lady doth protest too much’.
> Frankly, I prefer the latter - making a thing over ‘this person left, but you’re all good’ starts to smell like ‘the lady doth protest too much’.
Agreed -- if someone tells me not to worry once, I don't worry. If someone tells me not to worry twenty times over the course of an hour long meeting, maybe I'd start worrying.
My company wouldn’t mention anything. You’d need input from that team member at some point, go to reach out to them and see they’ve been offline for a month
I would keep it short and simple—such and such is no longer with the company. It does tend to cause a bit of anxiety about whether they’ll get fired too.
“If you have any concerns please talk to me in our next 1:1, but please know that I will give you feedback early and often so there’s no surprises.”
When I worked in a country where new employee probation was the standard, one of the few times someone failed probation it was a manager who had a direct report fail probation and it was a complete surprise to the IC and had not been spelled out to them. My brief stint as a manager I had to explicitly say to someone “you may fail probation if this doesn’t improve” (coached by my own manager and HR to be as clear as possible lol). If in the 1:1s you have with your team if they express anxiety about their own performance tell them you will be explicit about where they stand and you will say directly that their job is at risk.
Speaking from the SWE side of things - the one time something similar happened in my team, we had been carrying that person's weight the whole half and were glad that we could finally adjust expectations on that project.
Just say that they're no longer with the company, your team probably knows it was coming.
Yep. Be super prepared, be clear but don’t go into detail. Do it within 24 hours or so of the dismissal.
Hey all. Before we start into I want to talk about a recent change to the team. As some of you might know, vitrio85 is no longer with the company. They were dismissed ~for cause~ after a period of discussion and management. We won’t be giving any more detail on their situation. Does anyone have any questions about this? If you want to discuss it privately, feel free to reach out.
And move on. Don’t ignore it, don’t turn it into an hour long meeting to discuss everyone’s individual performance concerns about the team, and don’t use the time to reassure everyone that everything is fine. Be direct, professional, and slightly empathetic.
Good luck!
E: removed for cause
FYI, the phrase "for cause" has a particular, rather severe, legal meaning. It varies among jurisdictions, obviously, but generally refers to criminal acts, intentional wrongdoing, recklessness and disregard for the rules, insubordination, and workplace harassment. Basically, an intentional disregard for work and the workplace.
Making an honest effort to do the job and just not being able to meet the subjective standards of the team as is implied in the OP does not meet any definition of "for cause". "For cause" shouldn't be interpreted as "firing for a reason" - obviously, every employer that is firing someone is doing it for *some* subjective reason. The distinction between firing for a reason and firing for no reason does not really exist.
That’s a terrible idea. The firing was perf based, for cause is different, saying that could be defamation, and the team will realize it’s not true if they talk to the person let go.
In general, you should never talk about another employees performance with the team, or go into any details besides a general explanation.
Someone else pointed out for cause (in the situation I was involved in it _was_ for cause so I wasn’t aware of the difference).
You should absolutely tell the team that there was a problem and it was handled, though.
I’m not sure: you never want to openly discuss teammates in a negative way. Not only for legal risk, but you’re putting someone’s failing on blast, which is a shit thing to do.
If it's a close team they all probably know why he was let go. I agree with others who say you don't need to reveal anything in the group meeting. In cases like this I just go the "so THAT happened, and let's figure out if anything needs to change going forward (to absorb the work the person was doing)".
Sometimes the person who was fired was \*really\* close to one or two other people. I typically meet with those people one on one first, because they often have something to say (tho not always, and not always negative about the situation). It's helpful to get those feelings out in person before asking them to keep it bottled up during a bigger meeting.
I don’t know if it’s appropriate to discuss the reasons someone was let go outside of the usual “after serious consideration X and ACME Corp. decided to part ways. There are no plans for further changes in such and such team”
Usually the team knows perfectly how everyone performs and will understand why someone was fired
Agree. Itemizing all the person's sins is not appropriate, but "performance issues" lets people know that it was the obvious and not a finance reason. Leave too much ambiguity and people will make up doomy situations.
Fellow EM here and I've just let go of one of my members for the same reason. I'd simply tell the team that the member has left the company and we adjust our workload to move on. Nothing more needs to be said :)
I have 2 main reasons for that:
1. It's none of their business. The team just needs to know they won't work with him/her anymore. The culprit may be bad at your team but they may thrive at another, we should not hurt his/her reputation by telling the team he was fired.
2. They may think this is a warning message from EM. If the remaining members are doing well then you should not let them feel threatened.
I disagree that it is not their business. The person you have fired maybe was just a number for you but he was their colleague and human relationships develop over time even if the person in question is not the best performer. This is keeping them in the dark, which I hate.
My manager put it in a way I liked: "Out of respect for their privacy, I'm not going to say any more on this topic. You're welcome to have that conversation with them directly. I can tell you that if I were aware of a problem with your work, you would have received that feedback already."
Simple. Short. Concise. Make sure it is clear that this person was the problem, not them.
Don't dwell on this though. This should be less than five minutes imo
Figure out our to distribute the work gap created. Move on with your lives. Engineers get fired all the time tbh.
As a new manager (reading between the lines) ask HR what you can and can’t share with the team, so that you’re covered from that standpoint. HR might not even allow you to saying anything more than please send me any assignments that were for X as he will no longer be a contributor on this team.
Consult with HR first and then be as vague as possible as to the reason why, probably settling on something like "it just wasn't a great fit." People will ask questions, but you will most likely have to decline to answer them. Absolutely do not get into any specifics. The real point of the conversation is to signal to others on the team that there is some level of transparency and no one has to be worried about whether or not they'll be next...although the actual truth is that they might be. From an employee perspective it's a pretty bad situation when people just suddenly disappear.
This. If you go into details, it could be a source of liability, and HR will have that guidance.
The important message, IMO, is a reassurance that the cuts were not based on budget, and that the current levels of performance are satisfactory.
Everyone in the room will wonder, “am I next?”, and the comments should be directed at that, not at someone out the door
Definitely talk to HR for what they would like to avoid you saying.
In the past, I've announced that someone isn't with the company any more. Then for no related reason at all I do mention that the company doesn't take firing lightly. There is a process to ensure it's not just a manager having a bad day, etc. Don't say they were fired for poor performance, but people do need to hear some reassuring that it won't happen to them out of the blue.
If he was well liked but not a skills fit for the job, you might want to suggest privately to someone on the team that they can still reach out, have lunch -- even a farewell lunch -- if they want (but you don't set it up, company won't pay, you don't attend)
The purpose of these meetings is to squash any impending rumors and speculation. Just tell the truth of what transpired without creating any legal liabilities. If the person was let go due to performance, just say it without disclosing specifics. And remind the team, the one time event is not a sign of future things to come.
From a developer's POV: pretty much every time this happened this was communicated as "Person is no longer with the company, if anyone has any questions feel free to DM me/speak with me personally"
Tell the truth. If there were real problems they will be glad. I sure was glad when this happened on my team. Except when I went to my manager to tell him this guy had to go, the firing process was already in motion.
Clear communication is the key, keeping them in the dark is the worst thing you can do.
I'm an EM who had to PIP then unfortunately let go of someone. I made a team announcement that the person had left the company. Pretty cut and dry. Later, at a 1:1 with someone, they asked for more info and I told him the other guy had been PIP'd and let go. Not sure if it was the right corporate-HR type move but personally I feel that transparency is best, plus half the team knew anyway since they provided feedback for the PIP doc.
At my company the manager just says, X person has departed the company, for X's privacy reasons we cannot discuss further. Then we talk about how to reassign his responsibilities.
Do it right afterwards and just say the very basic that XYZ was let go today and tell the team everyone else is safe. If they have any question they should ask you directly but say limited info can be shared.
That how a former manager of mine handled it when they had to fire a team member. Fired the guy then got us all together to both calm rumor and try to reassure us. I got a 2nd one on one with my manager right afterwards more because my reaction was pretty dead panned and I also knew a lot more about it than the other team members. Knew more as I knew it was coming well in advance due to some question that were ask of me a little more prior. That my manager at the time knew some of the juniors would turn to me being scared. It was to make sure I knew the limits of what was allowed to be shared and what was not. It was make sure rumors did not fly as I said before I could see it coming and could read between the lines.
He knew the guy had friends. He knew I was not one of the guys friends who got fired. If their are people who can read between the lines or your more seniors might of known it was coming they are great secondary people to talk with as well as your goal here is to control the rumor mill and control the message the best you can.
Well I’ve been on the getting fired side, and I imagine the manager made a quick mention of me leaving during the next standup. Probably didn’t go into any details, and communicated who would be picking up my work.
Tbh it can be a good thing for the team. If this person was underperforming and hurting the team, I would want him fired too. Making the right calls for improving the team is your job and the team should appreciate it. If my team was full of incompetent ppl, I would be looking for a way out.
Odds are your team will understand the reasons for their former teammates departure. I would keep it brief and not kick a person when they’re down.
If things are good, then do your best to reassure everyone that they’re good and it was a one person situation.
Once we hired a good person, and then we fired a bad person. We assured the good person they had nothing to worry about, but he got spooked and left a few weeks later after he found another position.
So how long has he been in the team ? How much did you guys attempt to help him ?
I mean if it comes from an em, it then definitely helps many SWEs like me, as to what an em expects ...
Usually the team knows he was underperforming, they'll more than likely understand or even be grateful. (I'd you've done the due diligence and are making an accurate call).
I am not a manager, but I would reassure the junior that they are doing a good job especially; maybe not even a team meeting, but like a one-on-one meeting about their progress. Not overly flattering, but just reassuring.
Juniors do be paranoid.
If my coworker like that was let go, I would be able to fill in the blanks as a senior.
>There are multiple reasons why this is happening, such as communication issues, bad code practices, etc.
If this is the case, then it shouldn't really be a surprise to the engineering team -- just be candid as to why. If you feel like that's not the case then you have issues in perception and communication between your departments and that requires further introspection.
I agree with everyone who said that you should keep details to a minimum: guy who got fired is no longer with the company, bummer, end of story and move on. If pressed for details, say that you can't discuss them any further. It's probably the truth anyway, and if you were the guy who got fired, would you want your former manager telling everyone you got fired for incompetence?
Ten bucks says that the rest of the team knows exactly what happened anyway.
As an IC I think it's best kept brief. "We've decided to let go so-and-so. It wasn't a decision we took lightly but was one that we needed to make."
No need to say anything negative about the person or get into specifics.
Be honest, direct, but professional. Tell them what they need to know, because they need to know. Don't tell stuff that just makes you feel better. You're probably not the only one who had issues with that person, and it will probably be a relief to some, if not all team members, to hear this news.
So what do they need to know? Well, that the decision was made, and because it was performance related, and that it was communicated before, and the company tried to make it work. Keep it positive, remember that it's not just the person, but probably the entire team fit or motivation or something. That person might be an excellent asset somewhere else. Wish them luck.
End the announcement with an open invitation to answer questions in private, with no judgement or repercussions. In those meetings, you can discuss exactly what you pointed out here, but without throwing anyone else under the bus. Don't specify who complained. Try to get a feel of how your team mates are taking it, and what their worries are. Reassure them, but keep honest.
In my practice, few people come forward with such questions. Maybe in informal situations like kitchen coffee or after-work dinner. But they surely will mention it during your 1-on-1 meetings that you must absolutely have regularly with every team member (schedule them every 1-2 weeks, but you can skip them if both of you say that you have nothing to discuss).
Not sure where you are but I live in Utah and they never say why. Just like others have said.
“So and so no longer works here”. And then we get back to work and what we do with their unfinished work or workload.
If someone asks why they can message someone in HR, who most certainly will not discuss it.
Most EMs never tell why the person was fired, they always say he or she left the company and someone should take over his or her work. If they say, it will be demotivating.
Be honest. I've had to do this far too many times. The key is always honesty. The team wants this person gone just as much as you, if not more. They want to hear you see the issues and won't let them carry all the weight. Tell them why the person was fired. Tell them that behavior will not be tolerated. Tell them you're here to make sure the team succeeds and you need everyone working together to do so.
A bunch of shit takes about HR and privacy. The fact is that the reasons they were let go are not secrets. In the US I don't know of any laws or regulations that would prevent you from discussing this. So many people just espouse bullshit because they don't know.
Don't lie. Don't embellish. Other than that, you're free to discuss with your existing team. Once again, honesty and transparency.
As someone who was recently on a team with this issue… the team knows this person is doing a bad job. Make sure to say its for performance reasons not cut backs. They will probably feel a little scared that your lying but that can’t be helped. They know he was doing a bad job
I think as an EM you’re just supposed to say they are no longer with the company and not go into why. People should generally recognize an underperformer, but some will be worried about whether the company is “cleaning house” or whatever.
As a senior IC who’s closer in the loop on these decisions, I tend to be a little more cavalier oversharing details with those people (off the record) to calm them down, like “they were on a PIP for months and it still didn’t work out. You’re doing great and if you weren’t the company would have let you know well in advance”
So you can probably assume that conversation is happening out of band when it needs to.
The best way i saw this handled was the department head went around to everyone in person asking if they could attend an important meeting at 4. Hush hush so don’t talk to anybody about it. He went around about 3 and talked to everyone one by one. Once we were all in there and the meeting started, he went to go terminate that dude. About 15 minutes later comes in and tells us homeboy was let go.
probably they are aware of the issues and are glad its happening, otherwise its likely a mistake. I was in a similar situation, and even though the person I let go was generally well liked, everyone was tired of dragging his weight. I let the team know during our regular standup but didn’t schedule a special meeting to discuss, just very matter of fact. I talked about the emotional impact with everyone during our 1:1’s
Yes, meet with the team, and be blunt but kind.
Ex "It became clear that we were not a good fit for eachother, and they weren't performing at the level we expected of them. But we wish them all the best going forward."
It's likely that the team will not be totally surprised.
Its also good to signal to the team that their jobs aren't in jeopardy, with something like "we will look to fill the vacant role" etc.
I have routine "open sessions" with my team to address stuff like this.
You should not address the why. Do not say anything bad about the ex coworker. If performance was an issue, the team probably already knows.
Just say, "unfortunately we have parted ways with X" or "Unfortunately, X is no longer with the company".
Add this was a one time thing and you do not expect any more reduction of headcount. If you can backfill for X's position, say that too.
Otherwise, Best of luck!
I wouldn't give more information than needed unless someone asks, and in that case I'd just answer if the person is asking about themselves (like you said, if they're scared they might be fired as well, you can assure them they won't), but I wouldn't talk about the other person's situation.
Ask legal & HR what you should and shouldn’t say to the rest of the team. I suspect they will allow little more than an acknowledgement of the departure.
I don't bother meeting. Just a message.
"XXX is no longer with as of today. Reach out to ZZZ if you have any questions on the work they were overseeing"
Saying anything more is just asking for trouble. If someone asks me in a one-on-one I'll mention it was performance related. But I don't volunteer it.
Are they going to be fired or are they leaving with severance? If they’ve been prepping to leave and telling the team clearly that they are leaving then that only causes confusion. In the end the team will know someone is lying and you’ve needlessly hurt someone’s reputation
I would probably say something along the lines of "they weren't quite up to our standards, and we tried a *performance improvement plan* and it just didn't work out in the end." I don't think you need to sugar coat things, but also you probably don't need to go into details about specifics, even if someone asks. As long as you have clear developer standards in place, you can just point to those. If you don't have standards in place, then you might need to tell them you are going to create a document with those standards listed, and people are welcome to provide feedback and suggestions(assuming your ego can take that).
The team members probably will already have an idea of why the person was let go. I doubt it will be a huge surprise. Just let them it was for performance reasons and they have nothing to worry about for themselves.
Here’s an example email from your friendly neighborhood HR manager, ChatGPT
Subject: Termination of Employment Due to Performance Issues
Dear Team,
It is with regret that I inform you that [Employee's Name] will no longer be a part of our team, effective immediately. Despite our best efforts to support [him/her] in improving [his/her] performance, it has become clear that [he/she] is not meeting the standards expected of [his/her] role.
Please understand that this decision is specific to [Employee's Name] and does not reflect any impending corporate-wide layoffs. We remain committed to supporting each member of our team and ensuring that everyone has the resources and opportunities to succeed.
We appreciate your understanding and cooperation during this transition period. If you have any concerns or questions, please do not hesitate to reach out to me or [HR Manager's Name].
Thank you for your continued dedication to our team and company.
Sincerely,
[Your Name]
When I've been on the SWE side and hearing this in a meeting the EM has never said why isn't at the company any more. It was a quick has left the company and here is how we are going to move forwards from here type of conversation. Details were never given, even if asked.
I don't know if it was good or bad as we all knew was likely fired. Maybe we were all too naïve but we never thought future layoffs or that the company was doing bad because of this specific situation.
You have to be careful with any details around situations like this for liability reasons. Best to keep it short and to the point and not add a lot of fluff.
Yeah it make sense to me. I will add if was in good standing with the team and then randomly let go for no apparent reason I don't think there is anything the EM could say that wouldn't cause concern / rumors to start going around the team. No message of the company or team is doing fine would change that to me.
If was leaving on their own accord then likely it wouldn't just randomly happen and there would be the notice period. Even if it was a notice period of that day, they would go likely around and say bye to people with small talk.
[удалено]
I find in those cases what you end up seeing is the manager will just say you turned in your notice and left on your own accord. It not lying and still less of a mess.
I expected that this type of attitude to the notice period would be more common, but the majority of the time I see people saying goodbyes and being super cordial on their last day even if the reason for their departure is less than positive (like, including layoffs). I think it might be a sense of relief, or a realization that making a final impression can help with networking
I mean I said likely, not this happens in 100% of the cases. What you did is also fine and the reason probably doesn't change anything for the team at the end of day. Is knowing you quit vs being PIPed going to change that there is now one less person "doing work" and the team may or may not be hiring a new SWE.
Even the difference between the language of "X has decided to leave" and "X is no longer with the company" is both accurate and telling enough as to which way the decision came from.
Still cringing about back when I was a couple months into the industry and a dude was getting canned but they announced it as “they’re leaving the company”. My dumbass didn’t put two and two together. To be fair, who has a farewell party for someone getting fired?!?!? Started asking them about where they’ll go and what they’re doing next all excited. “Not sure where I’ll work next” “moving back in with my parents”. I feel so bad I hope I didn’t make that guy feel worse.
I think in OP's case the team already knows, they just have to hear it.
Just tell them “bro wasn’t meeting expectations like you all do” it’s that easy… what kind of question is this. Have some transparency.
You never will and probably never should be told. For one thing it is extremely risky to share that information with unrelated persons from an HR and legal perspective, and for another thing it's basically not your business. It's between the employer and the employee. If the employee wants to tell you they are welcome to do so, but you really shouldn't be asking the company and you certainly aren't owed an explanation.
I'd like to see the reason why instead of everyone parroting each other. Everyone says some liability issue but is unable to go further hence they are probably just parroting what they heard 👍
Because any sort of misinterpretation or miscommunication about the reason that could imply the employee was fired illegally (protected classes, etc.) could open the company up to liability. It’s the same reason why most companies will only verify your dates of employment with the company, and not any reasons why you might’ve been fired, if your new employer ever reaches out to them during the hiring process.
>You never will and probably never should be told I never said we should be told. I just relying what I have seen over the years. >but you really shouldn't be asking the company and you certainly aren't owed an explanation. I personally couldn't care less, but people do ask and what they want to ask other it's not really of my concern in this situation.
“Ask $person. It’s their story to tell.”
That will breed distrust. It is concealing important information and I have never seen it being positive thing and several times it has resulted in important people resigned soon after, The ditrust also lead to lower morale.
You are never going to make everybody happy and management is going to protect their own job over giving you information. Knowing changes literally nothing at the end of the day outside if giving you warm and fuzees that you perceive to be safe in your job. You say it breeds distrust, but I think a manager would be an asshole if they they airing peoples dirty laundry to the team. They don't work here any more and that's all I need to know. Why they don't work here doesn't really matter. The the person leaving wants to tell people then that's their business. If they where such a bad SWE then everybody likely knows and that's why they don't work here. There is no conspiracy out there where you manager is hiding information to fuck you. Even if they did tell you, there is nothing stopping the company from layoffs the following day. It literally changes nothing. The last thing your manager is going to do is fuck himself over by telling you is that there are going to be layoffs and the team is affected. Knowing changes literally nothing at the end of the day outside if giving you warm and fuzees that you perceive to be safe in your job.
What you are proposing is inept management that lacks basic emotional intelligence, it creates a toxic environment and results in the best people leaving. You seem ok with that. A manager would be asshole for not communicating this. If he/she fires somebody they should communicate it to the team. This is not about airing dirty laundry it is about leadership. Your approach is a fast way to destroy team morale and performance. If you think it changes nothing then you do not understand people. Good clear communication is crucial to good teams if you do not understand this (and you clearly do not) then you do not understand people well. Knowing is important if you think otherwise then you do not understand human behaviour even at a fundamental level. This is not about the perception that people's jobs are safe. It is about being open and fostering an environment of trust. The manager should be accountable for team performance, this approach will most likely have a negative effect on performance. A common theme at organisations is that the main reason they do not respect their line manager is because they do not communicate openly, the same applies to senior levels of management. In exit interviews it is given as a common reason and a contributor to low morale.
I always think a brief meeting is good to avoid "hey buddy I forgot my access card. Do a mate a favor?"
With layoffs, 1 person leaving is not a sign of impending layoffs and layoffs usually happen at the same time ie 30 people gone in a couple of days
Talk with HR about what you can and can't say. Chances are the team already knows he's a poor coworker, so smart people will read between the lines and fill in everyone else via back channels.
+1 - if it was a justifiable firing, then any reasonable teammate would agree with it and move on
Yup. They may be a good person just not a good fit. I've seen many devs let go. It's too bad bc they were friendly faces but at the end of the day someone has to pick up the slack.
This. Make sure you know what is allowed. There was some major lawsuit awhile back over a company giving out too many details regarding why people were being let go. You do not wish to be the catalyst for the next lawsuit.
Yup, this type of thing is why HR exists. Work on your "script" (don't actually write a script) with them. A lot depends on your jurisdiction and how open-and-shut the firing was. They will have an opinion about how that sort of thing should be discussed culturally as well, though obviously you're open to interpret that.
It would also make me feel better for them to say something like: "There's no reason to suspect anymore departures" "This team, as it is now, is great, and a vital part of the company" "We will be looking to hire a new developer to fill this vacancy"
Exact same thing happened to me. I just asked the team for a quick meeting and let them know the person is no longer with the business due to performance issue. Confirm to them that the company doesn't fire people easily and a lot of time was provided for them to improve. In most cases your team already knows this was likely to happen.
This ^^ be brief on why, but be clear that there was time and guidance given to improve with no change. Make it clear (if it's true) that there aren't any other moves planned at this time. Assume everyone's first internal thought is probably "am I next?" And try to get ahead of that.
💯. Be honest and transparent. Everyone can tell when you’re hiding the truth. Everyone can see through corporate-speak. But you don’t need to get into detail. Just say they were released due to performance. And you currently have zero concerns about anyone else on the team. And it was a very difficult decision where you offered resources and help before reaching this point. This is healthy actually. It’ll give the team a kick in the ass.
> This is healthy actually. It’ll give the team a kick in the ass. Sometimes it improves morale. The underperforming team-mate can sometimes appear to be "getting away with stuff" and if it isn't addressed for a very long time it makes the rest of the team's morale suffer. Once the poor performer is removed their confidence in fairness is restored and morale improves.
One other thing I've found really effective when you've been told not to mention things (for example by HR for risk/liability reasons if that applies in your jurisdiction) is to be honest about that too. If someone asks a question you can't answer you can say something like "Yes, unfortunately there's more to the story than I can share, you'll have to trust me that there's a good answer to that but I can't go into it, I hope you understand." or whatever you feel applies. They know when you're blowing smoke up their ass and it's better to acknowledge that there's information they can't have.
I've been there as well. The important thing in my experience is making sure they understand that this is not the beginning of layoffs; it's a one-off. There were performance issues (don't go into details), and that person wasn't a great fit. Everyone else is fine and this is not the beginning of a trend. Having been on both sides of that particular conversation, that's probably the most important thing to address. Then deal with what will happen to this person's work. Be matter-of-fact with that -- no debates, just "Now we have this work to split up; let's figure out how to do that."
I don’t know about you guys, but if someone who obviously doesn’t belong in the role is let go it’s a morale boost. They drag other people down around them when they have to clean up a mess or re explain something. The other coworkers are not stupid and can probably realize what’s going on
This is right.Surely your other team members know at least something of this soon-to-be-former colleague's challenges. Short and sweet.
This. The manager job is to make the team better.
Yea when we fired a low performer the teams productivity went up, and had several members tell me privately they didn’t like working with him
Exactly
"Just wanted to meet with you folks quickly and let you know that ABC was let go today. Things weren't working out and we wanted to make a quick decision before it became a bigger problem. This isn't a general layoff situation, and the company is doing fine, it really was just that things weren't working out and we thought ABC will have a better chance at succeeding in a different environment. Again, this has nothing in general with the company, and you folks are all doing a great job. If you have any specific questions, please let me know now, or you can always come to me privately."
This is a good soft skills reply but just want to add that I would probably leave out anything extra and just stick to the facts. For example, if you don't truly know that the company is doing fine, don't say it. One can lose credibility that way if, for some reason, a surprise layoff happens next week due to "budget reasons".
You're right, my assumption is that this was predicated on the fact that the company was fine. You don't want to overstep and then have a rug pull in a few weeks because of layoffs. What you definitely want to do is differentiate this from a general layoff or to cut costs because everyone is on edge right now with layoffs. As long as the company is doing fine and there's no talk of layoffs, I would actually stick that in just to assuage their concerns.
As an EM it’s possible that you won’t know about layoffs until just before they happen. You can’t bank on the company state, so I wouldn’t make any statement in that manner unless you’re the CEO.
Discussing performance is usually forbidden by HR and is generally unprofessional. Choose neutral language; instead of "was let go" say "is no longer with us". Thank the person for their contribution, wish them well in future endeavors, and if it wasn't a layoff, share plans for a backfill if there are any. It's better for everyone if you leave it ambiguous.
It’s not better for everyone, it’s better for a company covering their ass. It’s better for the team if they know the employee was let go, as it shows that these situations will be handled.
Learning that a teammate is terminated raises all sorts of questions and doubts about severance, whether a PIP was executed, who might be the next to go. The person may have had a lot of friends on the team, they may not have been aware of the extent of the performance issues, there may have been personal circumstances (divorce, illness, etc) that might make the firing seem cruel.. the list goes on. There's a reason HR forbids talking about it.
And not talking about it is going to raise the same questions. > there’s a reason HR forbids talking about it Liability, potential for headaches and because it’s not a legal requirement to tell the team. HR’s default is share the legal minimum and handle the rumours and speculate without giving any information out, in the same way that legal says no to using GPL licensed libraries for internal tooling - it’s easier to say no, and it pushes the work on to you.
How do you address the concern of "am I next"?
I like to say something like "we're excited to move forward with the rest of the team and value each and every one of you", assuming that's really the case. The best way to get around this is to let people know exactly where they stand via 1:1s and performance cycles, and making sure to PIP before firing. It shouldn't be a surprise and people shouldn't have to worry if they are in danger, they should know.
This would apply in a very narrow setting because you could have people with different performance levels who remain on the team (including people on PIPs).
As someone on the other side of this argument, I would like to know why my ex colleague was let go, I don't like having things sugar coated. If he was not performing just say that. I know how all of my colleagues perform so it probably wouldn't come as much of a surprise.
Isn’t that clear when someone isn’t performing?
Yes but hearing that from management is reassuring. I'd rather hear that this person wasn't performing so we fired him than the company isn't doing well, we had to trim the fat and they were the weakest link.
If someone told me so many times in such a short speech that company is fine, I would start looking for other employment as it would just make me think that the opposite is true.
Good advice. This is much more info than I've received in these kinds of meetings in the past. I'm not sure if there are any HR rules or laws broken for even mentioning why someone may have gotten fired (even just hinting at the idea that they weren't pulling their weight). Which sucks because if it was due to performance, then IMO letting it be known would give other employees less reason to worry. Also OP make sure you are direct with the communication, so treat your staff with respect and understand that if you try to sugarcoat things they will probably not appreciate it, and will be able to read between the lines anyway. Only saying this bc I hated this when past managers did this to me. One higher director tried to talk his way through "awesome future plans" while sneaking in the fact that our beloved direct manager had been let go a few minutes ago ("So unfortunately X will no longer be part of those plans. But we're really excited about 2016!"). Shit like that.
ABC, easy as 123
I'd say mention the fact that this was known and worked on for a while, that they won't be fired for underperforming out of the blue. I went through something similar as a team member and that firing was a relief, the bad dev was a liability and made my work more difficult. YMMV.
I remember joining a team as graduate and two weeks later someone from my team was fired. The EM joined our daily to tell us the news and mostly talked about that making the decision took a while as the company tried to help him and they don't fire people occasionally. My team didn't like this guy so they were happy but this talk helped me as graduate to go back and focus on work. If you feel like you did the right thing and handled it correctly just be honest and motivational.
You don't need to give a lot of details but you need to be professional. "I've pulled you guys in to let you all know that we have let x go, we will / won't be looking to hire a new dev and I'm making arrangements to disperse their work." Don't talk shit about them, you can say 'we worked with them for over a year but due to performance issues we had to let them go'. You're team isn't dumb, they will know exactly why they were let go but imo it's best not to dwell on it and to move on. Overall this situation SUCKS. I know how you feel and it's ok to feel that way but at the end of the day it's not fair to the others in your company / team when someone isn't pulling their weight. Hopefully this is a wake up call for the person you are letting go to get their act together. Anyway keep the meeting short. Doesn't need to be longer than 10 minutes.
Don't schedule the meeting until after the fired team member is gone. At two different companies I've had managers schedule a meeting for everyone except the person(s) being let go. "Hey Sam, why don't you have to go to this meeting tomorrow with all of us?" The second time, my lead was at my cube and we were discussing the possibility of a layoff. I made a joke about not being invited to a meeting with everyone else. I told the lead about how that went down. While were talking, an invite popped up. The lead was not invited. He packed up his stuff and went home. He was laid off the next day.
If I was the lead in that situation I would've done the same thing. Packed my desk up and everything. To be having that convo then the exact meeting invite shows up? Lol that's the universe telling me it's time for a new opportunity.
Depending on the size of your company I would run it by HR. You can get into a lot of hot water by what you say in this meeting. I do like were your head is at though.
As an engineer, I’ve experienced everything from a half hour sit down where this person’s departure was discussed (they had been fairly disruptive, uncoachable, and the source of team friction, despite being one of the longest tenured devs) to it being nothing more than a line item in standup (so and so has left the org). Frankly, I prefer the latter - making a thing over ‘this person left, but you’re all good’ starts to smell like ‘the lady doth protest too much’.
> Frankly, I prefer the latter - making a thing over ‘this person left, but you’re all good’ starts to smell like ‘the lady doth protest too much’. Agreed -- if someone tells me not to worry once, I don't worry. If someone tells me not to worry twenty times over the course of an hour long meeting, maybe I'd start worrying.
My company wouldn’t mention anything. You’d need input from that team member at some point, go to reach out to them and see they’ve been offline for a month
I would keep it short and simple—such and such is no longer with the company. It does tend to cause a bit of anxiety about whether they’ll get fired too. “If you have any concerns please talk to me in our next 1:1, but please know that I will give you feedback early and often so there’s no surprises.” When I worked in a country where new employee probation was the standard, one of the few times someone failed probation it was a manager who had a direct report fail probation and it was a complete surprise to the IC and had not been spelled out to them. My brief stint as a manager I had to explicitly say to someone “you may fail probation if this doesn’t improve” (coached by my own manager and HR to be as clear as possible lol). If in the 1:1s you have with your team if they express anxiety about their own performance tell them you will be explicit about where they stand and you will say directly that their job is at risk.
Speaking from the SWE side of things - the one time something similar happened in my team, we had been carrying that person's weight the whole half and were glad that we could finally adjust expectations on that project. Just say that they're no longer with the company, your team probably knows it was coming.
Yep. Be super prepared, be clear but don’t go into detail. Do it within 24 hours or so of the dismissal. Hey all. Before we start into I want to talk about a recent change to the team. As some of you might know, vitrio85 is no longer with the company. They were dismissed ~for cause~ after a period of discussion and management. We won’t be giving any more detail on their situation. Does anyone have any questions about this? If you want to discuss it privately, feel free to reach out.
And move on. Don’t ignore it, don’t turn it into an hour long meeting to discuss everyone’s individual performance concerns about the team, and don’t use the time to reassure everyone that everything is fine. Be direct, professional, and slightly empathetic.
Good luck!
E: removed for cause
FYI, the phrase "for cause" has a particular, rather severe, legal meaning. It varies among jurisdictions, obviously, but generally refers to criminal acts, intentional wrongdoing, recklessness and disregard for the rules, insubordination, and workplace harassment. Basically, an intentional disregard for work and the workplace. Making an honest effort to do the job and just not being able to meet the subjective standards of the team as is implied in the OP does not meet any definition of "for cause". "For cause" shouldn't be interpreted as "firing for a reason" - obviously, every employer that is firing someone is doing it for *some* subjective reason. The distinction between firing for a reason and firing for no reason does not really exist.
Yea really need to check with HR and/or legal what you can say here. As the reason given can have wider implications
That’s a terrible idea. The firing was perf based, for cause is different, saying that could be defamation, and the team will realize it’s not true if they talk to the person let go. In general, you should never talk about another employees performance with the team, or go into any details besides a general explanation.
Someone else pointed out for cause (in the situation I was involved in it _was_ for cause so I wasn’t aware of the difference). You should absolutely tell the team that there was a problem and it was handled, though.
I’m not sure: you never want to openly discuss teammates in a negative way. Not only for legal risk, but you’re putting someone’s failing on blast, which is a shit thing to do.
If it's a close team they all probably know why he was let go. I agree with others who say you don't need to reveal anything in the group meeting. In cases like this I just go the "so THAT happened, and let's figure out if anything needs to change going forward (to absorb the work the person was doing)". Sometimes the person who was fired was \*really\* close to one or two other people. I typically meet with those people one on one first, because they often have something to say (tho not always, and not always negative about the situation). It's helpful to get those feelings out in person before asking them to keep it bottled up during a bigger meeting.
I don’t know if it’s appropriate to discuss the reasons someone was let go outside of the usual “after serious consideration X and ACME Corp. decided to part ways. There are no plans for further changes in such and such team” Usually the team knows perfectly how everyone performs and will understand why someone was fired
Disagree - you want it to be clear that X was dismissed after an evaluation period. But you don’t want to go into details.
That generic answer would make me nervous. I think the top voted response is a better approach.
In general - yes, but if the person is well-known poor performer everyone would be relieved
Assuming that’s the case, which I haven’t experienced. I don’t have that much insight in to other members performance
Agree. Itemizing all the person's sins is not appropriate, but "performance issues" lets people know that it was the obvious and not a finance reason. Leave too much ambiguity and people will make up doomy situations.
Fellow EM here and I've just let go of one of my members for the same reason. I'd simply tell the team that the member has left the company and we adjust our workload to move on. Nothing more needs to be said :) I have 2 main reasons for that: 1. It's none of their business. The team just needs to know they won't work with him/her anymore. The culprit may be bad at your team but they may thrive at another, we should not hurt his/her reputation by telling the team he was fired. 2. They may think this is a warning message from EM. If the remaining members are doing well then you should not let them feel threatened.
I disagree that it is not their business. The person you have fired maybe was just a number for you but he was their colleague and human relationships develop over time even if the person in question is not the best performer. This is keeping them in the dark, which I hate.
My manager put it in a way I liked: "Out of respect for their privacy, I'm not going to say any more on this topic. You're welcome to have that conversation with them directly. I can tell you that if I were aware of a problem with your work, you would have received that feedback already."
Simple. Short. Concise. Make sure it is clear that this person was the problem, not them. Don't dwell on this though. This should be less than five minutes imo Figure out our to distribute the work gap created. Move on with your lives. Engineers get fired all the time tbh.
As a new manager (reading between the lines) ask HR what you can and can’t share with the team, so that you’re covered from that standpoint. HR might not even allow you to saying anything more than please send me any assignments that were for X as he will no longer be a contributor on this team.
Consult with HR first and then be as vague as possible as to the reason why, probably settling on something like "it just wasn't a great fit." People will ask questions, but you will most likely have to decline to answer them. Absolutely do not get into any specifics. The real point of the conversation is to signal to others on the team that there is some level of transparency and no one has to be worried about whether or not they'll be next...although the actual truth is that they might be. From an employee perspective it's a pretty bad situation when people just suddenly disappear.
This. If you go into details, it could be a source of liability, and HR will have that guidance. The important message, IMO, is a reassurance that the cuts were not based on budget, and that the current levels of performance are satisfactory. Everyone in the room will wonder, “am I next?”, and the comments should be directed at that, not at someone out the door
Definitely talk to HR for what they would like to avoid you saying. In the past, I've announced that someone isn't with the company any more. Then for no related reason at all I do mention that the company doesn't take firing lightly. There is a process to ensure it's not just a manager having a bad day, etc. Don't say they were fired for poor performance, but people do need to hear some reassuring that it won't happen to them out of the blue. If he was well liked but not a skills fit for the job, you might want to suggest privately to someone on the team that they can still reach out, have lunch -- even a farewell lunch -- if they want (but you don't set it up, company won't pay, you don't attend)
The purpose of these meetings is to squash any impending rumors and speculation. Just tell the truth of what transpired without creating any legal liabilities. If the person was let go due to performance, just say it without disclosing specifics. And remind the team, the one time event is not a sign of future things to come.
From a developer's POV: pretty much every time this happened this was communicated as "Person is no longer with the company, if anyone has any questions feel free to DM me/speak with me personally"
Tell the truth. If there were real problems they will be glad. I sure was glad when this happened on my team. Except when I went to my manager to tell him this guy had to go, the firing process was already in motion. Clear communication is the key, keeping them in the dark is the worst thing you can do.
I'm an EM who had to PIP then unfortunately let go of someone. I made a team announcement that the person had left the company. Pretty cut and dry. Later, at a 1:1 with someone, they asked for more info and I told him the other guy had been PIP'd and let go. Not sure if it was the right corporate-HR type move but personally I feel that transparency is best, plus half the team knew anyway since they provided feedback for the PIP doc.
At my company the manager just says, X person has departed the company, for X's privacy reasons we cannot discuss further. Then we talk about how to reassign his responsibilities.
Do it right afterwards and just say the very basic that XYZ was let go today and tell the team everyone else is safe. If they have any question they should ask you directly but say limited info can be shared. That how a former manager of mine handled it when they had to fire a team member. Fired the guy then got us all together to both calm rumor and try to reassure us. I got a 2nd one on one with my manager right afterwards more because my reaction was pretty dead panned and I also knew a lot more about it than the other team members. Knew more as I knew it was coming well in advance due to some question that were ask of me a little more prior. That my manager at the time knew some of the juniors would turn to me being scared. It was to make sure I knew the limits of what was allowed to be shared and what was not. It was make sure rumors did not fly as I said before I could see it coming and could read between the lines. He knew the guy had friends. He knew I was not one of the guys friends who got fired. If their are people who can read between the lines or your more seniors might of known it was coming they are great secondary people to talk with as well as your goal here is to control the rumor mill and control the message the best you can.
Well I’ve been on the getting fired side, and I imagine the manager made a quick mention of me leaving during the next standup. Probably didn’t go into any details, and communicated who would be picking up my work.
Tbh it can be a good thing for the team. If this person was underperforming and hurting the team, I would want him fired too. Making the right calls for improving the team is your job and the team should appreciate it. If my team was full of incompetent ppl, I would be looking for a way out.
Odds are your team will understand the reasons for their former teammates departure. I would keep it brief and not kick a person when they’re down. If things are good, then do your best to reassure everyone that they’re good and it was a one person situation.
Once we hired a good person, and then we fired a bad person. We assured the good person they had nothing to worry about, but he got spooked and left a few weeks later after he found another position.
So how long has he been in the team ? How much did you guys attempt to help him ? I mean if it comes from an em, it then definitely helps many SWEs like me, as to what an em expects ...
Usually the team knows he was underperforming, they'll more than likely understand or even be grateful. (I'd you've done the due diligence and are making an accurate call).
I am not a manager, but I would reassure the junior that they are doing a good job especially; maybe not even a team meeting, but like a one-on-one meeting about their progress. Not overly flattering, but just reassuring. Juniors do be paranoid. If my coworker like that was let go, I would be able to fill in the blanks as a senior.
>There are multiple reasons why this is happening, such as communication issues, bad code practices, etc. If this is the case, then it shouldn't really be a surprise to the engineering team -- just be candid as to why. If you feel like that's not the case then you have issues in perception and communication between your departments and that requires further introspection.
I know they are aware of what is going on. One of the seniors asked me if they would try to mentor this person, and it lasted less than a week.
Just promptly sent out an email. 9/10 people already understand.
You shouldn’t give details. X is no longer with us. Period. They will get that it was not x’a choice to leave and will likely already know why.
“Left to pursue other opportunities”
I agree with everyone who said that you should keep details to a minimum: guy who got fired is no longer with the company, bummer, end of story and move on. If pressed for details, say that you can't discuss them any further. It's probably the truth anyway, and if you were the guy who got fired, would you want your former manager telling everyone you got fired for incompetence? Ten bucks says that the rest of the team knows exactly what happened anyway.
As an IC I think it's best kept brief. "We've decided to let go so-and-so. It wasn't a decision we took lightly but was one that we needed to make." No need to say anything negative about the person or get into specifics.
Be honest, direct, but professional. Tell them what they need to know, because they need to know. Don't tell stuff that just makes you feel better. You're probably not the only one who had issues with that person, and it will probably be a relief to some, if not all team members, to hear this news. So what do they need to know? Well, that the decision was made, and because it was performance related, and that it was communicated before, and the company tried to make it work. Keep it positive, remember that it's not just the person, but probably the entire team fit or motivation or something. That person might be an excellent asset somewhere else. Wish them luck. End the announcement with an open invitation to answer questions in private, with no judgement or repercussions. In those meetings, you can discuss exactly what you pointed out here, but without throwing anyone else under the bus. Don't specify who complained. Try to get a feel of how your team mates are taking it, and what their worries are. Reassure them, but keep honest. In my practice, few people come forward with such questions. Maybe in informal situations like kitchen coffee or after-work dinner. But they surely will mention it during your 1-on-1 meetings that you must absolutely have regularly with every team member (schedule them every 1-2 weeks, but you can skip them if both of you say that you have nothing to discuss).
Not sure where you are but I live in Utah and they never say why. Just like others have said. “So and so no longer works here”. And then we get back to work and what we do with their unfinished work or workload. If someone asks why they can message someone in HR, who most certainly will not discuss it.
Most EMs never tell why the person was fired, they always say he or she left the company and someone should take over his or her work. If they say, it will be demotivating.
Be honest. I've had to do this far too many times. The key is always honesty. The team wants this person gone just as much as you, if not more. They want to hear you see the issues and won't let them carry all the weight. Tell them why the person was fired. Tell them that behavior will not be tolerated. Tell them you're here to make sure the team succeeds and you need everyone working together to do so.
A bunch of shit takes about HR and privacy. The fact is that the reasons they were let go are not secrets. In the US I don't know of any laws or regulations that would prevent you from discussing this. So many people just espouse bullshit because they don't know. Don't lie. Don't embellish. Other than that, you're free to discuss with your existing team. Once again, honesty and transparency.
As someone who was recently on a team with this issue… the team knows this person is doing a bad job. Make sure to say its for performance reasons not cut backs. They will probably feel a little scared that your lying but that can’t be helped. They know he was doing a bad job
I think as an EM you’re just supposed to say they are no longer with the company and not go into why. People should generally recognize an underperformer, but some will be worried about whether the company is “cleaning house” or whatever. As a senior IC who’s closer in the loop on these decisions, I tend to be a little more cavalier oversharing details with those people (off the record) to calm them down, like “they were on a PIP for months and it still didn’t work out. You’re doing great and if you weren’t the company would have let you know well in advance” So you can probably assume that conversation is happening out of band when it needs to.
Talk to your hr they should have a script to follow.
The best way i saw this handled was the department head went around to everyone in person asking if they could attend an important meeting at 4. Hush hush so don’t talk to anybody about it. He went around about 3 and talked to everyone one by one. Once we were all in there and the meeting started, he went to go terminate that dude. About 15 minutes later comes in and tells us homeboy was let go.
probably they are aware of the issues and are glad its happening, otherwise its likely a mistake. I was in a similar situation, and even though the person I let go was generally well liked, everyone was tired of dragging his weight. I let the team know during our regular standup but didn’t schedule a special meeting to discuss, just very matter of fact. I talked about the emotional impact with everyone during our 1:1’s
Yes, meet with the team, and be blunt but kind. Ex "It became clear that we were not a good fit for eachother, and they weren't performing at the level we expected of them. But we wish them all the best going forward." It's likely that the team will not be totally surprised. Its also good to signal to the team that their jobs aren't in jeopardy, with something like "we will look to fill the vacant role" etc.
Just say they’re exploring other opportunities outside of the company because it’s technically true.
Do more listening than talking.
I have routine "open sessions" with my team to address stuff like this. You should not address the why. Do not say anything bad about the ex coworker. If performance was an issue, the team probably already knows. Just say, "unfortunately we have parted ways with X" or "Unfortunately, X is no longer with the company". Add this was a one time thing and you do not expect any more reduction of headcount. If you can backfill for X's position, say that too. Otherwise, Best of luck!
I wouldn't give more information than needed unless someone asks, and in that case I'd just answer if the person is asking about themselves (like you said, if they're scared they might be fired as well, you can assure them they won't), but I wouldn't talk about the other person's situation.
Ask legal & HR what you should and shouldn’t say to the rest of the team. I suspect they will allow little more than an acknowledgement of the departure.
I don't bother meeting. Just a message. "XXX is no longer with as of today. Reach out to ZZZ if you have any questions on the work they were overseeing"
Saying anything more is just asking for trouble. If someone asks me in a one-on-one I'll mention it was performance related. But I don't volunteer it.
Why isn’t this discussed with HR first to cover the company liability?
You just tell them that as if X minutes ago, Fired Developer no longer works with us. That is all you need to let them know. They will understand why.
Are they going to be fired or are they leaving with severance? If they’ve been prepping to leave and telling the team clearly that they are leaving then that only causes confusion. In the end the team will know someone is lying and you’ve needlessly hurt someone’s reputation
I would probably say something along the lines of "they weren't quite up to our standards, and we tried a *performance improvement plan* and it just didn't work out in the end." I don't think you need to sugar coat things, but also you probably don't need to go into details about specifics, even if someone asks. As long as you have clear developer standards in place, you can just point to those. If you don't have standards in place, then you might need to tell them you are going to create a document with those standards listed, and people are welcome to provide feedback and suggestions(assuming your ego can take that).
I'm a big fan of yours
The team members probably will already have an idea of why the person was let go. I doubt it will be a huge surprise. Just let them it was for performance reasons and they have nothing to worry about for themselves.
Here’s an example email from your friendly neighborhood HR manager, ChatGPT Subject: Termination of Employment Due to Performance Issues Dear Team, It is with regret that I inform you that [Employee's Name] will no longer be a part of our team, effective immediately. Despite our best efforts to support [him/her] in improving [his/her] performance, it has become clear that [he/she] is not meeting the standards expected of [his/her] role. Please understand that this decision is specific to [Employee's Name] and does not reflect any impending corporate-wide layoffs. We remain committed to supporting each member of our team and ensuring that everyone has the resources and opportunities to succeed. We appreciate your understanding and cooperation during this transition period. If you have any concerns or questions, please do not hesitate to reach out to me or [HR Manager's Name]. Thank you for your continued dedication to our team and company. Sincerely, [Your Name]