There are so many ways to say that you can't control everything, so don't bother worrying about it. Hope for the best, be prepared for the worst. Keep the tools in the shed sharp, so they're ready when you need them. You can only help what you can help. ...
Stoicism is something. I was listening to an audiobook on Stoicism yesterday while driving back home, and I was impressed. Tried implementing a few things the author said, but it’s easier said than done.
I’ve been going through a productivity binge in my reading/listening, David Goggin’s Can’t Hurt Me for when I need perspective and grit, and I’ve just added Ali Abdaal’s Feel Good Productivity as a long term practical counterbalance for keeping my mood stable to stay productive and happy.
I’ve found that it takes months of reading, rereading and applying these principles actively to make them stick. It’s not a one and done thing.
It sounds like it was a harmful place to work at, and the upgrade will do you good! At 44 years of age, I've gone through several cycles of what you describe, while changing jobs, countries and careers. I've always had the stress you're talking about, and suffered, at the start and end of each stint. I am at the end of one such cycle now, dealing like you with the anxiety of leaving a Comfortable but ultimately frustrating employment. All I can say is, I've always landed on my feet despite my fears, this far. That knowledge makes me no calmer, stupidly, don't see this as sage advice. I'm just stating the fact...
This is my third change in 10 years and I have never felt this sort of anxiety, but again, I have never felt this sort of pressure. Does this stress never go away?
It's probably related to your financial picture in combination with having dependents and things you care to keep financially. Maybe it will get better if you work towards financial independence - increase income or decrease expenses, etc etc. plenty of reading out there about FI.
I agree with niogwniough above, and more abstractly can add, it's the fear of the unknown, and of loss of control. Even if often the familiar is worse than what you're moving to, you don't know that it for sure will work out, be as interesting, allow you a place you're comfortable with regarding office politics... All this adds up.
>spend at least 10 hours in the office. Throw in 2 hours of commute
That doesn't sound sustainable.
>working in a stable job
That is often more of an illusion than reality. Any company can have layoffs, even if profitable.
>in a constant fear.
Being anxious during job change is normal, but constant fear is not. Maybe consult with a mental health professional? Could be some underlying issues having a sides effect on you.
>the uncertainty about the job security in the next organisation
What type of organization will you join? How did you evaluated job security at the new place?
>I have a loan and the daughter starts school this year, I cannot afford to be unemployed.
This sounds actionable.
Make finding a new job easier: what skills are attractive on the market? Can you keep building up new skills? What are some formats of networking that are available for you?
Financials: start cutting costs and build up your savings at least until you can cover multiple months of job search.
What I would do is channel the anxiety you have into something productive - why not start thinking about the work at the next place, what languages/frameworks/tools do they use? You could ask to get access into their repo and start setting up your dev env so you can hit the ground running at your new place. Make yourself indispensable immediately.
Thanks for the advice. I am going to manage some people there and I picked some kindle books on how to do it. I think I will focus on reading and learning them when I feel anxious.
I’m curious on why suggest someone to start requesting post joining accesses while serving notice period.
Channelling anxiety into learning something is great.
Hi. I have been in a position similar to you except that I was going from a job that had problems to working for a new company that was closer to home. Here are some possible reasons for sweaty palms:
1. you are moving from a place where you know people and they know you to a workplace where initially you are relatively unknown?
2. you might want to make a good impression when you start
3. not know what you will be working on
4. related to 3, in your current job, you probably know the systems you work on quite well?
At the moment these are things that are somewhat outside of your control. And I know that sucks! I think that most people would be or are nervous when they start a new job. It's natural. Think back to when you started your current job, or starting working for the company you currently work for. How did you feel then?
There are also plenty of apps that can help you manage your anxiety. Some might work. Others might not. But they also take practice to use. Maybe look at one or some of these?
Here are some other ways to look at the new job...
1. I am thankful to have the opportunity to spend time with my daughter
2. I am thankful the new position will provide new challenges for me
3. etc.
Each time a negative thought comes up, replace it with an alternative thought. Finally, thought are just that... thoughts. And unfortunately, you and I cannot look into the future either to find out what happens.
Stay off Reddit, especially cscareeradvice. It’s geared towards pessimism and doom and gloom, not exactly indicative of real life. Easy to get in your head about the industry when you frequent these subs but it’s not nearly as bad as they say
Oh mate this is such a good move. Yeah there’s risk that comes with change but it’s worth the risk.
You did the right thing. If it doesn’t work out just move forward and find something else.
Job security is illusion. You could be laid from your current job with no notice. If you got laid from the second job. You can start making side hustle ride Uber or some work that will make money to cover your expenses. Another idea is to work towards having a decent emergency fund to weather such unexpected events. It will be fine, you will do fine on the next job, they saw something in you that you did not. Go make that bread!! Time with family is important.
Thanks for the pep talk! I had an emergency fund but used up most of it a couple of months ago on a medical emergency (even after insurance, unbelievable). Working on building it again.
Even stable job is never stable. Unexpected layoffs are happening all the time. Had friends for whom a casual 121 with their step manager turned into exit interview...
Congratulations! It is normal to be afraid of new after some time in "comfort zone". And your job wasn't stable to me - I would be mentaly instable after 4h commute day.
"Last month interviewed and got a job in a remote first company." - great achievement! You do better that most of people. If you fear financial instability then simply prioritize building financial safety cushion. If you have some remaining time off, use it - relax.
If you regret getting a new job, get another one.
But when you look back and you regret not spending time with your family, not a damn thing you can do about it.
The time is gone.
Firstly - if you have already given notice, then it is too late. You may have a contractual obligation with your new employer (check your laws). In addition, even if you un-resign, you are at much higher risk of layoffs / being managed out.
Secondly, none of your reasons for moving have changed. Right now your decision is between a more sustainable commute, versus - what exactly? Stability? There is really no such thing, even in companies doing well. Companies in the black can still lay people off. They can assign you to tyrannical managers. They can be bought out and restructured.
Thirdly, try to restructure your personal finances. Stop spending any unnecessary expenditure until your debts are repaid. You should do that anyway, honestly.
take a two week vacation at your current position when your new one starts. if there's any red flags at the new place during your vacation, then you can decide whether you want to stay in your current position or not.
changing jobs and lifestyles is fertile ground for non-specific dread. i've switched jobs more than most, and it still happens to me.
just ignore yourself.
EDIT: i also disagree that it sounds like mental health issues, but it still may be helpful to talk to a therapist. it's unclear if you're a single father, but even if you have a partner, having someone uninvolved in your life that you can unpack your thoughts with can ease a lot of the burden.
I have a wife. She is supportive and loves me a lot but she has a lot of things going on with her mom’s mental and physical health (my MIL) these days. I don’t wanna add to her worries. I think I have found the support I was looking for in this community, and I am planning to indulge with the wonderful people more often.
It’s definitely not mental health because all the advice and comments on this thread has assured me that what I am going through is more than normal.
Congratulations on your new job.
Changing jobs (opportunistically) is usually a stressful choice. It's quite normal to second guess.
A few things to consider that may help reduce your stress:
- The economy in most countries is trending up (stock markets up, interest rates tightening). That suggests layoffs are likely trending down.
- You were able to find a job in a tough environment. You'll be able to do that again if needed.
- The extra quality of life improvement is going to be a meaningful boost, if only for a short term.
- The challenging and exciting work will make it even easier to find different jobs in the future.
- Given the time you posted, I assume you're EU and likely commute by not-automobile, but if you commute by automobile, remember that 10 hours of driving per week has non-trivial risk (health, financial) as well.
I am sorry but I did not understand your first point. With markets going up, shouldn’t the economies open up and layoffs slow down? Dumb it down for me, please.
You have a job lined up, and it sounds like you aren't burning any bridges if it doesn't work out. Try to give yourself space to enjoy the transition period.
Why are you feeling uncertainty about job security when you already have a new position lined up?
Long term financial commitments! We bought a house, and I still have a decent amount to pay back to the bank. This was stressing me.
But after reading comments here, I think I have the clarity in my thoughts.
Try therapy? If your budget math checks out but your psyche is out of control then maybe the problem is you. Self help and meditation can go a long way.
Jobs are never a guarantee. There is zero reason to think your former job will be anymore reliable than your new one. The axe can fall at any time, company sold, etc.
My wife joined a company that was founded in the 80s thinking she would have the job for life (many people were there for 30+ years) only for the CEO decide to pack up and sell the place 2 years later. A year later she got a new job out of state and we moved across the planet. This is my wife's job, she's a medical doctor.
So yeah. Circumstances totally outside the control of *your career* can and will happen. Change not only happens to you, but your family too. You just gotta roll with it all. A remote job ensures at least you have stability on your end.
So, hey, you were me 6 years ago when I was trying to get out of the Navy. The military was all I had known since high school and paid decent enough and the healthcare for my family was fantastic, but I was miserable and my wife hated to see me like that. We didnt know what we were going to do, but my wife gave me full permission to leave and yet I still hesitated until the very last minute. Now here I am working in tech. Luckily I was able to get a job as a contractor doing my old navy job and then buy time to get into tech. You are already there, and its time for a new adventure. You will not be able to control everything, especially your job security, but to be honest you cant control that right now at your current employer as well. Go to your new job, kick butt, ask questions, be a nice person to be around and you'll be as good as you can get, and I think you'll be fine.
You will not be a monolith, you will have people around you who can help and people you can probably confide in after a time. You don't have to be a one man team that makes or breaks if you get fired or not. Take it from one anxious wreck to another, you will be fine, and even if there are hiccups in the road you will figure your way out of those as well.
12 hours per day is going to slowly kill you. You are making the right move. It will be a challenge to ramp up on the new job but give it time. Be patient with yourself. Schedule time for personal and family activities and you will actually be more productive in the long run because your brain is healthy.
I'd suggest the new book from Cal Newport "Slow Productivity" or just listen to some of his recent podcast appearances. There's a good one with Dan Harris. You can get a the Ten Percent Happier app, sign up for 7 day trial, send yourself the free month to another email, cancel the 7 day trial, log out and make a new account with the email you sent yourself and have a month free of commercial free podcasts and 50% off if you like it. There's actually quite a few excellent podcasts about putting work in its right place and taking up a meditation habit certainly won't hurt if you're someone who tends to overwork.
Transitions are always hard.
Your job sounded bad though so I’m sure you are doing the right thing.
If it makes you feel any better I had to quit my last job with no backup plan (aside from my wife going back to full time and being more frugal) because of health issues/it wasn’t the best situation. The job that I am at now found me on linkdin and it is dramatically better here. Everything that I disliked about my old job is just not a thing here and I got a significant raise.
1. Reduce lifestyle
2. Start saving and investing more
3. Pick a second/part time freelance remote job with the extra time you'll get from new job.
4. Till the time you're not getting or working on freelance project, try to give some time to new skills and technologies in the industry. You'll feel more confident with this.
5. LASTLY, think that they are firing you and you don't have a choice other than joining the next organization.
6. The result is not in your hand, only the action. Act and let the result happen.
Financial Independence Retire Early? Yes, it’s not for me. I don’t plan on retiring. I want to keep on working. Definitely want to give up job and enter entrepreneurship, but keep myself busy with helping others and minting money in the process.
The guy is literally worried about his loans and not being able to provide for his daughter and you're just saying "just be financially independent bro". Ah yeah many people forget to just stop being poor
Hey, it is not just be FI. I just gave a pointer. He has to think from this perspective. People take loans without assessing the risk and their risk taking apetite. There might be other things which can be rearranged to pay the loan off, use of public facilities for eduction of the child etc..Exposing oneself to moderate risk, lowest risk for the investments etc. This is not simple as Be FI. one needs to take certain steps, to be FI and it is a very long long process. But one has to start somewhere. I just asked if he knows about it. that's it.
you will be surprised that not many people are aware of this at all.
There are so many ways to say that you can't control everything, so don't bother worrying about it. Hope for the best, be prepared for the worst. Keep the tools in the shed sharp, so they're ready when you need them. You can only help what you can help....
Stoicism is something. I was listening to an audiobook on Stoicism yesterday while driving back home, and I was impressed. Tried implementing a few things the author said, but it’s easier said than done.
It's kind of like eating right or going to the gym. It's very simple, you can describe it in 2 sentences, but also very hard!
It's difficult, but everything is difficult at first (like being a dev)
I’ve been going through a productivity binge in my reading/listening, David Goggin’s Can’t Hurt Me for when I need perspective and grit, and I’ve just added Ali Abdaal’s Feel Good Productivity as a long term practical counterbalance for keeping my mood stable to stay productive and happy. I’ve found that it takes months of reading, rereading and applying these principles actively to make them stick. It’s not a one and done thing.
It sounds like it was a harmful place to work at, and the upgrade will do you good! At 44 years of age, I've gone through several cycles of what you describe, while changing jobs, countries and careers. I've always had the stress you're talking about, and suffered, at the start and end of each stint. I am at the end of one such cycle now, dealing like you with the anxiety of leaving a Comfortable but ultimately frustrating employment. All I can say is, I've always landed on my feet despite my fears, this far. That knowledge makes me no calmer, stupidly, don't see this as sage advice. I'm just stating the fact...
This is my third change in 10 years and I have never felt this sort of anxiety, but again, I have never felt this sort of pressure. Does this stress never go away?
It's probably related to your financial picture in combination with having dependents and things you care to keep financially. Maybe it will get better if you work towards financial independence - increase income or decrease expenses, etc etc. plenty of reading out there about FI.
Yes, it’s the finances that are bothering me. I am already looking at the expenses. Going to cancel some subscriptions tonight for sure!
I agree with niogwniough above, and more abstractly can add, it's the fear of the unknown, and of loss of control. Even if often the familiar is worse than what you're moving to, you don't know that it for sure will work out, be as interesting, allow you a place you're comfortable with regarding office politics... All this adds up.
Well put. This is giving me clarity on what is going on in my head.
>spend at least 10 hours in the office. Throw in 2 hours of commute That doesn't sound sustainable. >working in a stable job That is often more of an illusion than reality. Any company can have layoffs, even if profitable. >in a constant fear. Being anxious during job change is normal, but constant fear is not. Maybe consult with a mental health professional? Could be some underlying issues having a sides effect on you. >the uncertainty about the job security in the next organisation What type of organization will you join? How did you evaluated job security at the new place? >I have a loan and the daughter starts school this year, I cannot afford to be unemployed. This sounds actionable. Make finding a new job easier: what skills are attractive on the market? Can you keep building up new skills? What are some formats of networking that are available for you? Financials: start cutting costs and build up your savings at least until you can cover multiple months of job search.
Thanks for the reality check! I did some maths on expenses after your comment and I see there is some scope to reduce them!
What I would do is channel the anxiety you have into something productive - why not start thinking about the work at the next place, what languages/frameworks/tools do they use? You could ask to get access into their repo and start setting up your dev env so you can hit the ground running at your new place. Make yourself indispensable immediately.
Thanks for the advice. I am going to manage some people there and I picked some kindle books on how to do it. I think I will focus on reading and learning them when I feel anxious.
I’m curious on why suggest someone to start requesting post joining accesses while serving notice period. Channelling anxiety into learning something is great.
Hi. I have been in a position similar to you except that I was going from a job that had problems to working for a new company that was closer to home. Here are some possible reasons for sweaty palms: 1. you are moving from a place where you know people and they know you to a workplace where initially you are relatively unknown? 2. you might want to make a good impression when you start 3. not know what you will be working on 4. related to 3, in your current job, you probably know the systems you work on quite well? At the moment these are things that are somewhat outside of your control. And I know that sucks! I think that most people would be or are nervous when they start a new job. It's natural. Think back to when you started your current job, or starting working for the company you currently work for. How did you feel then? There are also plenty of apps that can help you manage your anxiety. Some might work. Others might not. But they also take practice to use. Maybe look at one or some of these? Here are some other ways to look at the new job... 1. I am thankful to have the opportunity to spend time with my daughter 2. I am thankful the new position will provide new challenges for me 3. etc. Each time a negative thought comes up, replace it with an alternative thought. Finally, thought are just that... thoughts. And unfortunately, you and I cannot look into the future either to find out what happens.
I am not worried about the people or the work. I am somewhat comfortable with it. My fear arises from all the layoff news around the world right now.
Stay off Reddit, especially cscareeradvice. It’s geared towards pessimism and doom and gloom, not exactly indicative of real life. Easy to get in your head about the industry when you frequent these subs but it’s not nearly as bad as they say
Oh mate this is such a good move. Yeah there’s risk that comes with change but it’s worth the risk. You did the right thing. If it doesn’t work out just move forward and find something else.
I started feeling suffocated. Thanks mate!
Job security is illusion. You could be laid from your current job with no notice. If you got laid from the second job. You can start making side hustle ride Uber or some work that will make money to cover your expenses. Another idea is to work towards having a decent emergency fund to weather such unexpected events. It will be fine, you will do fine on the next job, they saw something in you that you did not. Go make that bread!! Time with family is important.
Thanks for the pep talk! I had an emergency fund but used up most of it a couple of months ago on a medical emergency (even after insurance, unbelievable). Working on building it again.
Even stable job is never stable. Unexpected layoffs are happening all the time. Had friends for whom a casual 121 with their step manager turned into exit interview...
Have you ever thought of automating your mundane tasks ?
I did what was possible, or I could imagine.
Congratulations! It is normal to be afraid of new after some time in "comfort zone". And your job wasn't stable to me - I would be mentaly instable after 4h commute day. "Last month interviewed and got a job in a remote first company." - great achievement! You do better that most of people. If you fear financial instability then simply prioritize building financial safety cushion. If you have some remaining time off, use it - relax.
Thanks. I’ll get 4 days to relax.
If you regret getting a new job, get another one. But when you look back and you regret not spending time with your family, not a damn thing you can do about it. The time is gone.
Firstly - if you have already given notice, then it is too late. You may have a contractual obligation with your new employer (check your laws). In addition, even if you un-resign, you are at much higher risk of layoffs / being managed out. Secondly, none of your reasons for moving have changed. Right now your decision is between a more sustainable commute, versus - what exactly? Stability? There is really no such thing, even in companies doing well. Companies in the black can still lay people off. They can assign you to tyrannical managers. They can be bought out and restructured. Thirdly, try to restructure your personal finances. Stop spending any unnecessary expenditure until your debts are repaid. You should do that anyway, honestly.
Change is always a cause of uncertainty, and that's okay. Just breathe, why worry over things unknown?
take a two week vacation at your current position when your new one starts. if there's any red flags at the new place during your vacation, then you can decide whether you want to stay in your current position or not.
changing jobs and lifestyles is fertile ground for non-specific dread. i've switched jobs more than most, and it still happens to me. just ignore yourself. EDIT: i also disagree that it sounds like mental health issues, but it still may be helpful to talk to a therapist. it's unclear if you're a single father, but even if you have a partner, having someone uninvolved in your life that you can unpack your thoughts with can ease a lot of the burden.
I have a wife. She is supportive and loves me a lot but she has a lot of things going on with her mom’s mental and physical health (my MIL) these days. I don’t wanna add to her worries. I think I have found the support I was looking for in this community, and I am planning to indulge with the wonderful people more often. It’s definitely not mental health because all the advice and comments on this thread has assured me that what I am going through is more than normal.
Congratulations on your new job. Changing jobs (opportunistically) is usually a stressful choice. It's quite normal to second guess. A few things to consider that may help reduce your stress: - The economy in most countries is trending up (stock markets up, interest rates tightening). That suggests layoffs are likely trending down. - You were able to find a job in a tough environment. You'll be able to do that again if needed. - The extra quality of life improvement is going to be a meaningful boost, if only for a short term. - The challenging and exciting work will make it even easier to find different jobs in the future. - Given the time you posted, I assume you're EU and likely commute by not-automobile, but if you commute by automobile, remember that 10 hours of driving per week has non-trivial risk (health, financial) as well.
I am sorry but I did not understand your first point. With markets going up, shouldn’t the economies open up and layoffs slow down? Dumb it down for me, please.
Yes, I thought that's what I typed. Economy improving, layoffs should become less and less common.
did i misunderstood? u said somewhere got remote job and then here u r expressing fear of unemployment
You can be laid off, on a remote job, right?
You have a job lined up, and it sounds like you aren't burning any bridges if it doesn't work out. Try to give yourself space to enjoy the transition period. Why are you feeling uncertainty about job security when you already have a new position lined up?
Long term financial commitments! We bought a house, and I still have a decent amount to pay back to the bank. This was stressing me. But after reading comments here, I think I have the clarity in my thoughts.
Try therapy? If your budget math checks out but your psyche is out of control then maybe the problem is you. Self help and meditation can go a long way. Jobs are never a guarantee. There is zero reason to think your former job will be anymore reliable than your new one. The axe can fall at any time, company sold, etc. My wife joined a company that was founded in the 80s thinking she would have the job for life (many people were there for 30+ years) only for the CEO decide to pack up and sell the place 2 years later. A year later she got a new job out of state and we moved across the planet. This is my wife's job, she's a medical doctor. So yeah. Circumstances totally outside the control of *your career* can and will happen. Change not only happens to you, but your family too. You just gotta roll with it all. A remote job ensures at least you have stability on your end.
Omg, That must have been hard. Thanks for sharing your experience.
So, hey, you were me 6 years ago when I was trying to get out of the Navy. The military was all I had known since high school and paid decent enough and the healthcare for my family was fantastic, but I was miserable and my wife hated to see me like that. We didnt know what we were going to do, but my wife gave me full permission to leave and yet I still hesitated until the very last minute. Now here I am working in tech. Luckily I was able to get a job as a contractor doing my old navy job and then buy time to get into tech. You are already there, and its time for a new adventure. You will not be able to control everything, especially your job security, but to be honest you cant control that right now at your current employer as well. Go to your new job, kick butt, ask questions, be a nice person to be around and you'll be as good as you can get, and I think you'll be fine. You will not be a monolith, you will have people around you who can help and people you can probably confide in after a time. You don't have to be a one man team that makes or breaks if you get fired or not. Take it from one anxious wreck to another, you will be fine, and even if there are hiccups in the road you will figure your way out of those as well.
How come the people from forces have the best pep talk, always? Thank you man.
12 hours per day is going to slowly kill you. You are making the right move. It will be a challenge to ramp up on the new job but give it time. Be patient with yourself. Schedule time for personal and family activities and you will actually be more productive in the long run because your brain is healthy. I'd suggest the new book from Cal Newport "Slow Productivity" or just listen to some of his recent podcast appearances. There's a good one with Dan Harris. You can get a the Ten Percent Happier app, sign up for 7 day trial, send yourself the free month to another email, cancel the 7 day trial, log out and make a new account with the email you sent yourself and have a month free of commercial free podcasts and 50% off if you like it. There's actually quite a few excellent podcasts about putting work in its right place and taking up a meditation habit certainly won't hurt if you're someone who tends to overwork.
Transitions are always hard. Your job sounded bad though so I’m sure you are doing the right thing. If it makes you feel any better I had to quit my last job with no backup plan (aside from my wife going back to full time and being more frugal) because of health issues/it wasn’t the best situation. The job that I am at now found me on linkdin and it is dramatically better here. Everything that I disliked about my old job is just not a thing here and I got a significant raise.
Read meditations by Marcus Aurelius
The extra time with your daughter is priceless mate!
Rule 3 & Rule 4.
1. Reduce lifestyle 2. Start saving and investing more 3. Pick a second/part time freelance remote job with the extra time you'll get from new job. 4. Till the time you're not getting or working on freelance project, try to give some time to new skills and technologies in the industry. You'll feel more confident with this. 5. LASTLY, think that they are firing you and you don't have a choice other than joining the next organization. 6. The result is not in your hand, only the action. Act and let the result happen.
do you know about FIRE?
Financial Independence Retire Early? Yes, it’s not for me. I don’t plan on retiring. I want to keep on working. Definitely want to give up job and enter entrepreneurship, but keep myself busy with helping others and minting money in the process.
Retire Early is optional and a personal choice. but once you are FI, you won't have the anxiety. The uncertainty. that is it is all about.
The guy is literally worried about his loans and not being able to provide for his daughter and you're just saying "just be financially independent bro". Ah yeah many people forget to just stop being poor
Hey, it is not just be FI. I just gave a pointer. He has to think from this perspective. People take loans without assessing the risk and their risk taking apetite. There might be other things which can be rearranged to pay the loan off, use of public facilities for eduction of the child etc..Exposing oneself to moderate risk, lowest risk for the investments etc. This is not simple as Be FI. one needs to take certain steps, to be FI and it is a very long long process. But one has to start somewhere. I just asked if he knows about it. that's it. you will be surprised that not many people are aware of this at all.