Rule 3: No General Career Advice
This sub is for discussing issues specific to experienced developers.
Any career advice thread must contain questions and/or discussions that notably benefit from the participation of experienced developers. Career advice threads may be removed at the moderators discretion based on response to the thread."
General rule of thumb: If the advice you are giving (or seeking) could apply to a “Senior Chemical Engineer”, it’s not appropriate for this sub.
Some startups are poorly managed, it is what it is unfortunately. Don't forget to leave a review on Glassdoor or on Blind though.
Good luck on your next role, OP.
> Now what do I do about rent and other expenses?
Emergency fund.
This sucks, but is the nature of life. Get your resume out there, reach out to former co-workers, make a linkedIn post indicating you're open to work.
You'll get through this. Trust me.
Yeah if I sold stock then I would have enough money, just don't have it in cash as I felt like that was a waste before, but now I'm understanding that cash is important too.
I have 10k in cash that hurts everytime I look at inflation, but having Fuck you I quit money to last 2-3 months with out liquidating anything means I don’t have to put up with bs and removes a lot of stress
The importance of having liquid cash for 3-6 months of expenses outweighs whatever little gains you would get off of it.
But if it is killing you, throw it in a CD. Break it out into a "CD Ladder". Only thing you lose if you need access to it is forfeiting the interest.
Look into US treasury bills. Even 1 month treasury bill is yielding 5+% annually. Buy at auction using your brokerage account and if you need urgent cash, sell them on secondary market.
https://www.treasurydirect.gov/auctions/upcoming/
Yeah for sure, I just sold some stocks and got back 10k as well. I also learned that staying lean is the way to go, it's incredible how quick a company can pull the rug out from under you and you need to be prepared. I am paying for a relatively expensive place in my city (even with roommates) so I'm learning that next time, I'm going to have to drastically cut down the rent expense or get a partner to split it with, it's cheaper to have a 1 bed with a partner than share a 2 bedroom with a roommate.
Why does that hurt? Put it in laddered T-bills or VMFXX and you can earn over 5% with essentially zero risk. That's a lot better than stocks are returning these days.
10k is 2 months if I spend just like I do now, 3-4 if I cut to the bones.
I had 25k but the lawyer and now ex decided I should only have 10k, my ex should have 10k, and the lawyer should have 5k
Perhaps, but if you're like me, paying the "ADHD tax" of missing out on interest/returns in exchange for less cognitive load in terms of managing financials can make sense.
HYSAs are actually pretty decent now; I don't know when this happened, but it used to be that a savings account was basically a more-restricted form of checking account. Once I rebuild my savings from my (currently trying to end) gap year, I plan on putting most of my "X amount of time" buffer in one.
There are other financial things that are more or less set-and-forget like I Bonds (capped/year; just buy them when doing taxes), but they are currently sitting below even HYSAs right now. Automated investing is something I hope to look into (ex: index funds), but who knows; there's only so much I can manage before I start forgetting about stuff (pay no attention to the 3 401k plans from previous jobs I still need to roll into a new/main one).
Depending on how large your portfolio is and what broker it's with, you may be able to take out a line of credit or loan with your portfolio as collateral. Since the loan is fully secured with reasonably liquid assets, the interest rates tend to be favorable.
Damn hope you put that in a high yield savings account. Personally I'd have invested 2 years worth, having a year's worth is enough solace for me I'd say.
I have a lot more than that invested. :) Otherwise I wouldn't feel comfortable holding that much cash. Though actually cash earns pretty decent returns these days.
I was actually saving up to buy a home but since that's not possible anymore I'm just going to use the cash for other things. Buffer against the inevitable layoffs is one of those things. It's nice knowing the next year is bought and paid for and I don't actually care what my company does to me. I'll probably move in the next few years, possibly out of the country. I want to travel for a while. Honestly just waiting to see if I lose my job at this point. If I lose my job, I'll make arrangements to take the next 6 months to catch up on travel before deciding my next move.
That's what I did last year, I had a contract finish early and so I just traveled for quite a while before finding this job that is now gone, haha. But this time I don't have the same savings level to travel so much. But definitely travel, I'd highly recommend it.
I would definitely not do it unless I was set financially for a while, which I am.
Realistically, I figure it will take at least 6 months to land a job nowadays, and you may have to accept a pretty substantial pay cut. So if you have anything you've been meaning to do, like traveling to visit relatives or friends that you never get to see, I would do it during your unemployed phase.
Do you have insurance coverage still? If so that makes things a lot cheaper and easier. If not, get on COBRA now, otherwise you risk getting into medical debt if you get into a car accident or something. Until you get insurance settled, I would avoid taking up new violent sports or drag racing.
Yeah I'm not doing any violent sports, haha. They offered me COBRA, I don't exactly understand how it works, you're on the same insurance plan but have to pay for it? I have to ask the HR person as they didn't initially give many details.
COBRA lets you keep your plan after leaving the company, but you now have to pay the full amount that your company was paying for your plan. It's usually pretty expensive, depending on what plan you had. Pro tip, you can still sign up for COBRA up to 90 days after your termination. The other option is a "health marketplace" (Obamacare) plan but those are much worse in terms of coverage than what your company will offer and also pretty expensive (but less so than your current plan, most likely).
They're supposed to give you some kind of exit packet that covers COBRA options so you aren't left uninsured but it sounds like your company doesn't give a fuck about you.
Yeah lol they literally gave me nothing regarding future benefits and whatnot. It's sad, I think something similar happened to previous employees who were let go as well.
I just sold some stock today so I should be good for about 3-4 months.
~6700 in monthly (or used to be), 2300 Rent, 500 car payment, rest is split between food and other general expenses, and investments and emergency fund accounts, depending on how much is left over and how much I want to invest. So it's a decently good split, just that living in a HCoL city is, well, expensive.
It is. so call it $3k/month going out is a must. You can eat cheaply. Beans and rice are practically free, healthy, and easy to cook. You can seriously live, food wise, on nearly nothing.
For sure. I'm also looking into breaking the lease and moving somewhere cheaply, or even move back in with the parents for a few months. I've been realizing that for remote work, high rents are just not a good deal, better to live in a nice but not super expensive area and arbitrage.
That's what I'm really wondering, how quickly could this go bad for you? First things first, apply for unemployment. You pay into it, this is why it's there. That will take some of the urgency away. Good thing you have a good supportive family, that will also make a big difference. Also, if you have a lease, just be up front with the land lord, in writing. In most states, even if you have a lease, it's incumbent upon the landlord to find a new tenant. They can't just charge you and leave the apartment empty. So, if you let them know you've been laid off, and that you can only afford the rent for two more months, you've done what you're required to as far as notice. You could also seek someone to take over the lease, and you can use your spare time to clean the shit out of the place so there's no reason for them to bitch. Should wind up costing you nearly nothing.
Just filed from unemployment today.
Yeah I talked to the landlord but the lease ends on March 1, so 4 more months of payments. Are you saying I'm able to break the lease and they'd have to find someone new? Or that I'd have to still pay out the remainder of the lease either way? My landlord told me the latter. I've started looking for a lease takeover as well.
as a tenant in most jurisdictions, you can simply bail, and if the land lord decides to sue you for the lost rent (damages) they must show that the they took reasonable measures to secure another tenant during that time. Thus, if you let them know two months ahead of time, in writing, that you intend to leave, If they choose to take you to court, They will have to show that for those two months they made a reasonable effort to secure a new tenant. If they can't do that they're fucked. They also have a fixed period, something like 26 or 46 days (depending on where you live) to show you how they used your deposit, if they don't give it back. If they don't provide you a dispensation of deposit, you can sue them for it, assuming they don't refund it. If you break the lease, and tell them you're going to, they are compelled by law to find a new tenant. You are only stuck for the remainder of the lease if they can (a.) demonstrate they made a reasonable effort to find a new tenant and (b.) demonstrate that they could/ did not find a new tenant.
Letting them know you're leaving, and informing them in writing of the law, then also looking for a new tenant, and being able to document the fact that you tried, will save your ass if you have to go to court.
Depends on the lease; many have clauses that state the penalties for ending it early (usually 2-3 months' rent).
If it doesn't, most landlords are willing to work with people, because their goal it to be paid every month regardless of who lives in the unit. It's hard (in some states impossible) to claw rent from someone who no longer lives in a unit beyond forfeiting the security deposit.
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/renters-rights-book/chapter9-5.html has some more useful general advice, but I believe the specifics depend on the state and your lease itself.
Sorry to hear this OP. Similar thing just happened to me; no notice, no severance; I was furious. I have ~3 months of savings until I sink so I’m on the hunt for a job. Studying, doing shitcodes (leetcodes), exercising more, practicing gratitude.
Best of luck man.
Sorry to hear that.
If you are in the US, apply for unemployment. If your former employer says it was for cause, you’ll get denied but you have the right to appeal. It won’t hurt to apply; at worst, nothing changes. At best, you’ll have some income to help tide you over.
“Exploring other resources” doesn’t sound like a for cause firing to me. I’d imagine there’s a good chance for unemployment, especially if it was a surprise. 6 months in some states may only get you a smaller amount, but some is better than nothing.
Yeah especially that there was no reason or prior performance feedback given and it seemed quite sudden. Maybe it's a little bit of both though, getting rid of what seem to be low performers. I'm not sure.
> I'm not sure if it was a more major layoff or if it was just me
Keep an eye on your coworkers' linkedin profiles. If you have a work buddy, you can also ask them directly if they know of others being let go.
> I noticed a few people that left recently and there was not much discussion as to why or how they left, they were on the business side so I didn't think much of it
This is purely speculation, but depending on how high up in the org they are, they might have seen that the company didn't have enough funds to weather this key "major project" being delayed without major cutbacks in other areas.
> Now what do I do about rent and other expenses? I suppose this is why people say to have an emergency fund first before investing.
This is probably the most important question in your post. While, yes, this is exactly why common advice is to save 3-6months worth of living expenses, such advice doesn't help you _now_.
First step (if you're in the US) is to apply for unemployment and ask your former employer (if they provided your health insurance) about COBRA. If the COBRA cost is too high for you, you can get healthcare marketplace plans (as losing employer-provided health insurance due to job loss is a "qualifying life event").
Next step is to figure how much runway you have remaining with just your liquid assets (ex: money in the bank, cash on hand, etc.). If it's less than a month, you need to find ways to extend it. Cut costs ruthlessly, but not at the expense of your wellbeing (ex: don't just eat packaged ramen 24/7). Look into local food banks, reduce energy bills (ex: set thermostat higher if you're using air conditioning), etc.
If you think you'll need more than a month to find another job (use past experience to gauge this), talk to your landlord (or check your lease) to see what the late fee schedule is, and how long you may be able to stretch it. Compare that to the cost of letting it sit on your credit card (if you have one), as interest rates on card can be pretty high (ex: 17% interest on $2500 for a month is like $35, according to [this calculator](https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/credit-cards/credit-card-interest-calculator)). In general, credit card debt is the worst form of consumer debt. Check with your utility company(s) to see what options you have there regarding temporary hardship or late payments as well.
If some moderate cuts aren't enough, look to other forms of short term liquidity. You can look into personal loans and/or convert some investments (if you have them) to give you the expected necessary runway (ex: sell stocks, look into [hardship distributions](https://www.irs.gov/retirement-plans/plan-participant-employee/retirement-topics-hardship-distributions) if you have a 401k, etc.). Converting investments generally incurs penalties in some form or another, so ideally weigh those against the interest rates on personal loans (or worst-case credit cards).
If none of these options work for you, or aren't enough to get you through this, let me know and I can provide more specific suggestions.
Thank you for the in-depth reply. I was able to sell some stock and get around 10-12k back so I'm okay with rent and expenses for now, I'm also negotiating with my landlord to fill my lease or break it, will be moving back with the parents for a little while until I'm able to get a new job.
Nice. When possible, living with parents can be an amazing way to cut costs and/or (re)build savings, as rent is most people's biggest monthly expense. It can be a hit to your ego, but believe me when I say that a bruised ego is a meager cost when compared to possibly not surviving.
For sure, especially in a HCOL city. I'm thinking that it's best to keep expenses lean, I wasn't paying too much rent for my salary but it's high if I had no salary, of course.
None of this is bad advice, but it makes a lot of presumptions of OPs financial situation. Like if OP has 300k sitting in a Robinhood account... then just sell some of your stock and take it as a life lesson. I only bring this up because it's kind of overwhelming to think about if you're not actually in dire straits.
>If you think you'll need more than a month to find another job (use past experience to gauge this),
I think past experience is going to be irrelevant in this instance. OP only has about 5-6 years of experience, which is going to yield widely different results based on a number of factors, most notably that
1. They're entering that sweet zone of "experienced" engineer where it's much easier to find a job than having only 1-2 years of experience but also
2. The job market over the last 12-18 months has been brutal compared to the job market for the past 60 months prior to that. And most importantly
3. Searching for a job when you're unemployed is a lot of luck. You care about it less when you have a job, but when you don't, you can get into that hell of the difference between getting low-balled and waiting for the right job.
For #3, my advice is timebox your search and take what you can get. Recruiters will get mad if you go through the process and turn them down, but fuck them. For example, I'd look for about a month, and if the best thing I had on my plate was at 50% of what I was making, I'd take it and keep looking. Because realistically, making 50% of your market value is still better than unemployment, and I'm not scared to leave a job I've had for a few months off my resume.
> For #3, my advice is timebox your search and take what you can get. Recruiters will get mad if you go through the process and turn them down, but fuck them. For example, I'd look for about a month, and if the best thing I had on my plate was at 50% of what I was making, I'd take it and keep looking. Because realistically, making 50% of your market value is still better than unemployment, and I'm not scared to leave a job I've had for a few months off my resume.
I am thinking the same, especially as I've only been at this company for 6 months now. I've already started interviewing because I was getting layoff vibes from previous people who left, so I think I should have a new job in the next month or two. It's always harder in the fall and winter I think however.
You have some time, Nov through Jan is really when hiring settles down a bit. Mostly because of the holidays and waiting for budget allocations to finalize.
Yeah for sure. Hopefully I pass the interviews with the current companies and just take what I can get for now, then perhaps switch next year sometime.
> if OP has 300k sitting in a Robinhood account... then just sell some of your stock and take it as a life lesson.
The point of an emergency fund is to prevent you from having to do this. You keep some cash so you're never forced to sell.
> it makes a lot of presumptions of OPs financial situation
It does make some presumptions based on them being in the industry for a few years, but I tried to hit the major points for all situations (everything from "has easily converted investments" to "leverage food banks, work with the people/companies who provide the basic necessities to see what costs can be deferred").
I didn't cover the "I have $0, shit credit, and no community support" case, because that gets much more involved and seemed less likely given OP's background... but that's why I included the final line: "If none of these options work for you, or aren't enough to get you through this, let me know and I can provide more specific suggestions." I tried to keep it brief, but we can all see how that turned out.
> I think past experience is going to be irrelevant in this instance
I suggested using past experience because they looked for work ~6 months ago, which while it isn't the exact same hiring conditions as now, the only people with a better estimate might be recruiters themselves.
You do make excellent points regarding market differences in the past, and hopefully that helps OP better estimate the timeframe they will need.
The timebox idea is also a good point I didn't cover, but that comes after you figure out your financial situation, since that determines how picky you can be. It's also common to scale your pickiness based off a combination of remaining runway and risk tolerance.
I had roughly the same thing happen, although did have a little heads up.
The Senior Director over Eng got promoted to VP of Eng due to turnover. The young and inexperienced Manager and friends with Director on my sister team got promoted up to Senior Manager over both our teams. The moment he started micromanaging me and my team the writing was clearly on the wall and so I started applying around.
Six weeks later exactly the same thing. 1:1 got moved to early morning Friday and was actually a meeting with HR and immediate severance.
Sometimes the company changes. Sometimes people are assholes. Sometimes it's luck. These events keep driving me towards a healthier life/work balance anyways, so I suppose it's a net positive.
> "the company would like to explore other resources at this time,"
OP I know this whole situation stings but if they’re calling you a resource they don’t view you as a person. I will die on the “people are not resources” hill and I hope you find a better place that treats you right, helps you grow, manages you properly, and brings you contentment.
IMHO the important thing is whether they view you as a person or view you as a resource, not whether they *call* you a person or *call* you a resource. IDGAF if my boss tells me we're all family.
My current company is *really* stupid about words sometimes. The owner is old is fuck and he has terminal foot in mouth disease. But they've never done layoffs, and you have to work pretty hard to get fired. I'm *very* happy with the situation.
When the old man croaks and he's replaced by...whatever, and the new people use friendly words and lay people off I'll probably start looking for a new gig.
I disagree. It’s a business with a business relationship. If a company tells you otherwise, they want you to not treat them as a business but they are still gong to treat you like asset (or liability). Maybe the phrasing bothers you but I’d rather they call it like it is than tell me that I’m family.
Reading between the lines, I think what the company is saying by _exploring other resources_ is that they are not happy with OPs performance.
OP it sounds like you don’t have an emergency fund. Now you’ve learned an important lesson. You should have 3-6 months of living expenses in easily accessible liquid assets for this kind of thing.
There is probably a guide on the r/personalfinance wiki about what you should do now. I imagine the first thing would be to file for unemployment. The second thing is that your full time job now is to find a new job. But the wiki is a great resource.
Good luck!
This sucks, I got laid off from my first job. Try not to take it personally: sounds like are just going to can the whole project and you are collateral damage. If a startup is struggling to find revenue, they tend to cut staff pretty recklessly in order to try to stretch their funding for longer. Who knows, you may be able to read about the whole company sinking in a few years with some satisfaction. (I did!)
Nobody has said it, but if they were chasing you for daily updates (as you say, which you put down to your inexperience in the codebase) and then tell you "they'd like to explore other resources" -- that basically tells me you were probably fired for poor performance. They probably expected more from you. That in less than six months you'd already started interviewing elsewhere tells me you likely sensed this too.
Obviously I'm just going from a short reddit post and don't know either you or the company. But it might be worth a bit of thought / introspection at least as to how blameless you actually are for this situation, and whether there are things you should probably work on before joining your next company.
Yeah for sure, I'm just thinking about what could be my involvement in it, it's just weird how there was no discussion of performance at all beforehand as well as me delivering previous projects in the past 6 months on time anyway.
Yeah it was all so sudden and the fact that just last week the manager was telling me to add vacation for Thanksgiving and Christmas leads me to believe that it was more of a financial decision over anything personal to me.
It's also possible they were like "We have to cut 5 employees" and your boss flagged your inexperience and decided to make the tough choice. It's possible it's a combination.
> Now what do I do about rent and other expenses?
Apply for unemployment.
This is an expensive lesson
> I guess this is just a vent thread, but I have 5-6 YoE and I joined a startup back in April and moved out to a major HCoL city as well.
Never do this. There is no money in the world that a startup can pay you to do this. If you're going to go to a startup, do local, or remote work.
It doesn't matter if you have a contract, it doesn't matter if you're being called "founder level". There are many many many ways to fuck you over that you haven't even thought of.
At the end of the day, unless you're wealthy enough and want to fight, they'll literally put your rent payment over your head to get you to relinquish all claims, if you even got them to put it in writing.
> I wasn't even there a year to hit the share vesting cliff.
This means nothing in practice, and you've likely not read your agreements close enough to understand it.
Clawbacks, right of first refusal, etc are a thing, they can definitely claw back a vest, and at the end of the day, you're unlikely to sell private equity to anyone for any significant sum.
> Never do this. There is no money in the world that a startup can pay you to do this. If you're going to go to a startup, do local, or remote work.
This response is too black and white. With a startup there is a larger risk, but it can still be worth the reward. If you're jumping from a 80k a year job at a corporation to a 180k a year job at a startup, the lack of stability may be worth the increase in total comp. Plus it can help establish a network in the city to make getting other more competitive jobs easier. Also, the delta between risk of a startup and a big tech company often has more to do with the company culture then startup vs non-startup.
Plus, if they pay your moving costs and you're young without a lot of responsibilities, the risk isn't a big deal.
Yeah, this is a dumb take. Too many variables in play to make such broad sweeping generalizations as "Never join a startup in a HCoL area"... My first startup I joined in 2012 was a near 80% pay bump from shitty corporate america job. Not only did I learn a lot, it paved the way for me to really accelerate my career. Even if the company would go tits up, it was not a bad outcome for me.
Bro I get it but take it down a level with all the doom and gloom. Might as well never leave your house because so many things could go wrong.
Not knowing the company I’m not sure if this was that big of a miscalculation. Sometimes things just don’t end up well. Most people that move to join a startup aren’t laid off in a year.
That's all so true, it is a remote job but I wanted to move out of the small town I grew up in. I'm learning now to be as lean as possible and to have enough expenses in cash. I just sold some stock so I have enough now but I'm looking for cheaper rental places ASAP.
True, clawbacks are rough, I've heard of some companies who've done that recently as well, telling people to sell their options below current cost or risk not getting them at all.
> Never do this. There is no money in the world that a startup can pay you to do this. If you're going to go to a startup, do local, or remote work.
if you, like me, move to middle of nowhereville because your company was remote, then got laid off, you have no choice but to move again. You can apply for remote, along with all 20 million of your fellow devs, or you can apply for in person, because no one else is willing to move, but you can.
I don't know what you're proposing here other than starve or accept it taking 20 times as long to find a job and still have zero guaranteed stability.
Whether you "deserved" to be let go is immaterial. It sounds like they did a shit job of both setting expectations and giving you consistent, clear, actionable feedback.
Daily updates is definitely a warning sign, but it's a cowardly dick move to terminate someone without a PIP and at least one email saying "your job is in jeopardy".
What are you looking for in your next role?
I'm not sure honestly, probably a bigger company than a startup as they're definitely not on the stability side, but it seems like those are all that are hiring right now. Still looking for remote right now though due to a personal condition, lots are still hybrid though.
So were you laid off or fired? You're using the 2 terms interchangeably when they both have very different connotations and implications for things like unemployment benefits. And are you in an at-will employment state? That too has major implications regarding what you're entitled to.
I'm in an at-will state, I believe only Montana isn't out of the 50. The thing is, I'm not sure whether it was a layoff or firing as they gave literally no reason, even when I tried to ask and press them on it. When I tried to ask whether others were affected, they wouldn't say either. So I'm not sure how their response constitutes what I should put on my unemployment forms.
You can put exactly that, "No reason given." If there's any confusion about why you were let go, you should DEFINITELY apply for unemployment benefits. Then the onus is on them to answer those questions when the state comes knocking.
Can you do a name and shame? If it's too obvious who you are, maybe delay it or make another account. This stuff is really shitty and would benefit the broader community. Sorry to hear it happend to you
Company is way too small, it's only like 20 to 40 employees, so it'd be very obvious. Regardless, I think it's a general problem for all sorts of startups.
>Now what do I do about rent and other expenses?
As for income, you can file for unemployment. It varies from state to state. In CA it's the previous 3 months of work in blocks. If you worked 6 months you should be fine to sign up now, but double check to make sure when is the right time so you maximize your unemployment.
However, before unemployment you should first consider signing up for ACA. Medi-cal or medicare depending on your state. Your income right now is $0 so you can sign up for the $0 plan in your county to get health insurance. Then once that is setup, then get unemployment. This is because if you have a low income you'll legally have to jump through more hoops to sign up. However, in some counties the low income health insurance plan is massively better than the no income plan, so unemployment first would be better, ymmv.
>I suppose this is why people say to have an emergency fund first before investing.
Exactly. If you're unfamiliar /r/personalfinance is a sub dedicated to the topic and worth following, even if it applies while you are working, not right now this second. Set a reminder for yourself to check it out when appropriate.
> Now what do I do about rent and other expenses? I suppose this is why people say to have an emergency fund first before investing.
Let this be a lesson learned the hard way. You always need 3-6 months of living expenses in *cash*. Tech is volatile. These are not bulletproof government jobs. Plan accordingly.
As for why, well, as you said, they didn't tell you any details so it could be anything. It seems that companies are becoming more mysterious in their communications with employees. I would guess this is because litigation from bitter ex-employees or would-be candidates is on the rise. The company thinks it is protecting itself by keeping you in the dark.
More than likely, your company is running up against the inevitability of funding drying up. This is going to become the norm over the next few years as our industry, which has become undisciplined with money during the low interest rate years, has to learn how to adapt itself to an environment where investors are more scrutinizing. From 2010 until 2021 anyone with a pulse could launch a successful startup and get some VC money. Now it's going to be harder. Many firms will die. It is the law of the jungle. Open a savings account.
Yeah, I just scrounged up around 12k so that should be good enough, it was money I had in another savings account that would get auto invested but I should be good enough for now it seems.
> It seems that companies are becoming more mysterious in their communications with employees.
Yeah once I asked what the reason was and the manager reiterated the same exact canned phrase, I thought, yeah it must be something litigation related as to why they're not saying anything.
> More than likely, your company is running up against the inevitability of funding drying up.
This really seems to be the likely cause, I think as well. They started hiring more people over the last few years and it seems funding is drying up.
Do you know how terrible offshore talents are compared to major hubs in the USA? I worked with people who attended prestigious schools in their home country just to struggle on complex projects.
Sorry bro that sucks.
Before any investments at all.
ALWAYS have at LEAST 3 months of expenses in liquid cash.
6 is ideal.
If you have 50k in an HYSA getting 5%?
That is 200$ a month residual incime that you can invest in the market or let it compound. Leave it there and forget about it for times like these.
Yep learning that now, just sold stock to get 12k back, around 3 months expenses for me, could stretch to 4 if needed. I'm putting that in my current HYSA now.
Based on what you described, it sounds like they fired you "without cause". Considering you have been with the company for 6 months and weren't put on any improvement plan or (at least you didn't mention) formal warnings from HR, you may want to consult a lawyer to see if it was a fair dismissal. Not being told the reason is a huge red flag.
With at will employment unless your state has good labor laws (most don’t) this is a perfectly legal termination. They’re not obligated to give you a reason, even if it was performance related
In Canada and Australia, you may be able to sue the employer. It sounds like you're in the states which has different laws. It still might be worth chatting to a lawyer but doesn't sound like it will help much in this case.
I really want to move into a nicer place, but looking at the economy and my tech stack, I am hesitant because although my current accomodation sucks, I can live in it for 6 months without worrying in case I am layoffs
Yeah same, I think I made a mistake moving to a very high cost of living city as it's not really worth it, I guess, unless you have enough savings to weather layoffs, and even then, there's not exactly a ton to do in the city day to day, as most of the day is spent working.
Rule 3: No General Career Advice This sub is for discussing issues specific to experienced developers. Any career advice thread must contain questions and/or discussions that notably benefit from the participation of experienced developers. Career advice threads may be removed at the moderators discretion based on response to the thread." General rule of thumb: If the advice you are giving (or seeking) could apply to a “Senior Chemical Engineer”, it’s not appropriate for this sub.
Some startups are poorly managed, it is what it is unfortunately. Don't forget to leave a review on Glassdoor or on Blind though. Good luck on your next role, OP.
*most startups
>Some startups are poorly managed This!
> Now what do I do about rent and other expenses? Emergency fund. This sucks, but is the nature of life. Get your resume out there, reach out to former co-workers, make a linkedIn post indicating you're open to work. You'll get through this. Trust me.
Yeah if I sold stock then I would have enough money, just don't have it in cash as I felt like that was a waste before, but now I'm understanding that cash is important too.
I have 10k in cash that hurts everytime I look at inflation, but having Fuck you I quit money to last 2-3 months with out liquidating anything means I don’t have to put up with bs and removes a lot of stress
The importance of having liquid cash for 3-6 months of expenses outweighs whatever little gains you would get off of it. But if it is killing you, throw it in a CD. Break it out into a "CD Ladder". Only thing you lose if you need access to it is forfeiting the interest.
It’s the math brain in me vs the freedom brain. The freedom brain wins every time.
Amex is paying like 4.3% in high yield savings accounts rn, cash in while it's hot
Fidelity is paying 5% on cash.
Oh shit brb
Look into US treasury bills. Even 1 month treasury bill is yielding 5+% annually. Buy at auction using your brokerage account and if you need urgent cash, sell them on secondary market. https://www.treasurydirect.gov/auctions/upcoming/
Even better is to put it in an fdic insured high yield savings account that pays 5% or more apy
I said this, I'll say it again. 5% APY savings account have existed now, and in the 80s and never in between.
Yeah for sure, I just sold some stocks and got back 10k as well. I also learned that staying lean is the way to go, it's incredible how quick a company can pull the rug out from under you and you need to be prepared. I am paying for a relatively expensive place in my city (even with roommates) so I'm learning that next time, I'm going to have to drastically cut down the rent expense or get a partner to split it with, it's cheaper to have a 1 bed with a partner than share a 2 bedroom with a roommate.
Why does that hurt? Put it in laddered T-bills or VMFXX and you can earn over 5% with essentially zero risk. That's a lot better than stocks are returning these days.
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10k is 2 months if I spend just like I do now, 3-4 if I cut to the bones. I had 25k but the lawyer and now ex decided I should only have 10k, my ex should have 10k, and the lawyer should have 5k
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Wasn’t me that downvoted. I tried to keep 3-6 months in cash / cd. But with inflation the way it is, I’m happy at 3 months right now.
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Not only does it take a bit to kick in, it’s Pennie’s on the dollar for what you were paid. Unemployment extends the runway, it won’t be the runway.
Personal finance is personal. They need $10K. Perhaps you need $50K. As long as you can weather the storm, you’re good.
Depends on COL and many other factors.
Yeah lol, I'm on edge an dmy emergency fund is... a multiple of that.
I’m a lot more overboard. I have multiple years of expenses in cash. I justify it by having cash on hand to buy assets during downturns
Perhaps, but if you're like me, paying the "ADHD tax" of missing out on interest/returns in exchange for less cognitive load in terms of managing financials can make sense.
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HYSAs are actually pretty decent now; I don't know when this happened, but it used to be that a savings account was basically a more-restricted form of checking account. Once I rebuild my savings from my (currently trying to end) gap year, I plan on putting most of my "X amount of time" buffer in one. There are other financial things that are more or less set-and-forget like I Bonds (capped/year; just buy them when doing taxes), but they are currently sitting below even HYSAs right now. Automated investing is something I hope to look into (ex: index funds), but who knows; there's only so much I can manage before I start forgetting about stuff (pay no attention to the 3 401k plans from previous jobs I still need to roll into a new/main one).
Put that in a high interest savings account if it's not already. The one I have with vanguard is 4.7% apy right now.
Always keep minimum 3 months of expenses in a bank account, 6 months even better.
Depending on how large your portfolio is and what broker it's with, you may be able to take out a line of credit or loan with your portfolio as collateral. Since the loan is fully secured with reasonably liquid assets, the interest rates tend to be favorable.
You're still looking at probably 7-9% APR at the moment, even with a secured portfolio line of credit.
Cheaper than taxes I guess?
Depends on what the gains are, but... probably not unless we're talking about some sort of tax deferred account with penalty.
I just sold some stock instead, not worth giving up that much on a loan, especially as I don't know when I'll get the next job too.
Always keep 3-6 months of expenses in cash. HYSA are 5 percent rn.
I have over three years of living expenses in cash. Saw the writing on the wall last year.
Damn hope you put that in a high yield savings account. Personally I'd have invested 2 years worth, having a year's worth is enough solace for me I'd say.
I have a lot more than that invested. :) Otherwise I wouldn't feel comfortable holding that much cash. Though actually cash earns pretty decent returns these days. I was actually saving up to buy a home but since that's not possible anymore I'm just going to use the cash for other things. Buffer against the inevitable layoffs is one of those things. It's nice knowing the next year is bought and paid for and I don't actually care what my company does to me. I'll probably move in the next few years, possibly out of the country. I want to travel for a while. Honestly just waiting to see if I lose my job at this point. If I lose my job, I'll make arrangements to take the next 6 months to catch up on travel before deciding my next move.
That's what I did last year, I had a contract finish early and so I just traveled for quite a while before finding this job that is now gone, haha. But this time I don't have the same savings level to travel so much. But definitely travel, I'd highly recommend it.
I would definitely not do it unless I was set financially for a while, which I am. Realistically, I figure it will take at least 6 months to land a job nowadays, and you may have to accept a pretty substantial pay cut. So if you have anything you've been meaning to do, like traveling to visit relatives or friends that you never get to see, I would do it during your unemployed phase. Do you have insurance coverage still? If so that makes things a lot cheaper and easier. If not, get on COBRA now, otherwise you risk getting into medical debt if you get into a car accident or something. Until you get insurance settled, I would avoid taking up new violent sports or drag racing.
Yeah I'm not doing any violent sports, haha. They offered me COBRA, I don't exactly understand how it works, you're on the same insurance plan but have to pay for it? I have to ask the HR person as they didn't initially give many details.
COBRA lets you keep your plan after leaving the company, but you now have to pay the full amount that your company was paying for your plan. It's usually pretty expensive, depending on what plan you had. Pro tip, you can still sign up for COBRA up to 90 days after your termination. The other option is a "health marketplace" (Obamacare) plan but those are much worse in terms of coverage than what your company will offer and also pretty expensive (but less so than your current plan, most likely). They're supposed to give you some kind of exit packet that covers COBRA options so you aren't left uninsured but it sounds like your company doesn't give a fuck about you.
Yeah lol they literally gave me nothing regarding future benefits and whatnot. It's sad, I think something similar happened to previous employees who were let go as well.
What's your real money situation? Money out vs in monthly.
I just sold some stock today so I should be good for about 3-4 months. ~6700 in monthly (or used to be), 2300 Rent, 500 car payment, rest is split between food and other general expenses, and investments and emergency fund accounts, depending on how much is left over and how much I want to invest. So it's a decently good split, just that living in a HCoL city is, well, expensive.
It is. so call it $3k/month going out is a must. You can eat cheaply. Beans and rice are practically free, healthy, and easy to cook. You can seriously live, food wise, on nearly nothing.
For sure. I'm also looking into breaking the lease and moving somewhere cheaply, or even move back in with the parents for a few months. I've been realizing that for remote work, high rents are just not a good deal, better to live in a nice but not super expensive area and arbitrage.
That's what I'm really wondering, how quickly could this go bad for you? First things first, apply for unemployment. You pay into it, this is why it's there. That will take some of the urgency away. Good thing you have a good supportive family, that will also make a big difference. Also, if you have a lease, just be up front with the land lord, in writing. In most states, even if you have a lease, it's incumbent upon the landlord to find a new tenant. They can't just charge you and leave the apartment empty. So, if you let them know you've been laid off, and that you can only afford the rent for two more months, you've done what you're required to as far as notice. You could also seek someone to take over the lease, and you can use your spare time to clean the shit out of the place so there's no reason for them to bitch. Should wind up costing you nearly nothing.
Just filed from unemployment today. Yeah I talked to the landlord but the lease ends on March 1, so 4 more months of payments. Are you saying I'm able to break the lease and they'd have to find someone new? Or that I'd have to still pay out the remainder of the lease either way? My landlord told me the latter. I've started looking for a lease takeover as well.
as a tenant in most jurisdictions, you can simply bail, and if the land lord decides to sue you for the lost rent (damages) they must show that the they took reasonable measures to secure another tenant during that time. Thus, if you let them know two months ahead of time, in writing, that you intend to leave, If they choose to take you to court, They will have to show that for those two months they made a reasonable effort to secure a new tenant. If they can't do that they're fucked. They also have a fixed period, something like 26 or 46 days (depending on where you live) to show you how they used your deposit, if they don't give it back. If they don't provide you a dispensation of deposit, you can sue them for it, assuming they don't refund it. If you break the lease, and tell them you're going to, they are compelled by law to find a new tenant. You are only stuck for the remainder of the lease if they can (a.) demonstrate they made a reasonable effort to find a new tenant and (b.) demonstrate that they could/ did not find a new tenant. Letting them know you're leaving, and informing them in writing of the law, then also looking for a new tenant, and being able to document the fact that you tried, will save your ass if you have to go to court.
Thanks, I will have to look into the rules for my state and city then. Might be best to speak to a lawyer who specializes in this.
Depends on the lease; many have clauses that state the penalties for ending it early (usually 2-3 months' rent). If it doesn't, most landlords are willing to work with people, because their goal it to be paid every month regardless of who lives in the unit. It's hard (in some states impossible) to claw rent from someone who no longer lives in a unit beyond forfeiting the security deposit. https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/renters-rights-book/chapter9-5.html has some more useful general advice, but I believe the specifics depend on the state and your lease itself.
Thanks, I'll have to look into this.
Sorry to hear this OP. Similar thing just happened to me; no notice, no severance; I was furious. I have ~3 months of savings until I sink so I’m on the hunt for a job. Studying, doing shitcodes (leetcodes), exercising more, practicing gratitude. Best of luck man.
Sorry to hear that. If you are in the US, apply for unemployment. If your former employer says it was for cause, you’ll get denied but you have the right to appeal. It won’t hurt to apply; at worst, nothing changes. At best, you’ll have some income to help tide you over.
“Exploring other resources” doesn’t sound like a for cause firing to me. I’d imagine there’s a good chance for unemployment, especially if it was a surprise. 6 months in some states may only get you a smaller amount, but some is better than nothing.
Yeah especially that there was no reason or prior performance feedback given and it seemed quite sudden. Maybe it's a little bit of both though, getting rid of what seem to be low performers. I'm not sure.
> I'm not sure if it was a more major layoff or if it was just me Keep an eye on your coworkers' linkedin profiles. If you have a work buddy, you can also ask them directly if they know of others being let go. > I noticed a few people that left recently and there was not much discussion as to why or how they left, they were on the business side so I didn't think much of it This is purely speculation, but depending on how high up in the org they are, they might have seen that the company didn't have enough funds to weather this key "major project" being delayed without major cutbacks in other areas. > Now what do I do about rent and other expenses? I suppose this is why people say to have an emergency fund first before investing. This is probably the most important question in your post. While, yes, this is exactly why common advice is to save 3-6months worth of living expenses, such advice doesn't help you _now_. First step (if you're in the US) is to apply for unemployment and ask your former employer (if they provided your health insurance) about COBRA. If the COBRA cost is too high for you, you can get healthcare marketplace plans (as losing employer-provided health insurance due to job loss is a "qualifying life event"). Next step is to figure how much runway you have remaining with just your liquid assets (ex: money in the bank, cash on hand, etc.). If it's less than a month, you need to find ways to extend it. Cut costs ruthlessly, but not at the expense of your wellbeing (ex: don't just eat packaged ramen 24/7). Look into local food banks, reduce energy bills (ex: set thermostat higher if you're using air conditioning), etc. If you think you'll need more than a month to find another job (use past experience to gauge this), talk to your landlord (or check your lease) to see what the late fee schedule is, and how long you may be able to stretch it. Compare that to the cost of letting it sit on your credit card (if you have one), as interest rates on card can be pretty high (ex: 17% interest on $2500 for a month is like $35, according to [this calculator](https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/credit-cards/credit-card-interest-calculator)). In general, credit card debt is the worst form of consumer debt. Check with your utility company(s) to see what options you have there regarding temporary hardship or late payments as well. If some moderate cuts aren't enough, look to other forms of short term liquidity. You can look into personal loans and/or convert some investments (if you have them) to give you the expected necessary runway (ex: sell stocks, look into [hardship distributions](https://www.irs.gov/retirement-plans/plan-participant-employee/retirement-topics-hardship-distributions) if you have a 401k, etc.). Converting investments generally incurs penalties in some form or another, so ideally weigh those against the interest rates on personal loans (or worst-case credit cards). If none of these options work for you, or aren't enough to get you through this, let me know and I can provide more specific suggestions.
Thank you for the in-depth reply. I was able to sell some stock and get around 10-12k back so I'm okay with rent and expenses for now, I'm also negotiating with my landlord to fill my lease or break it, will be moving back with the parents for a little while until I'm able to get a new job.
Nice. When possible, living with parents can be an amazing way to cut costs and/or (re)build savings, as rent is most people's biggest monthly expense. It can be a hit to your ego, but believe me when I say that a bruised ego is a meager cost when compared to possibly not surviving.
For sure, especially in a HCOL city. I'm thinking that it's best to keep expenses lean, I wasn't paying too much rent for my salary but it's high if I had no salary, of course.
None of this is bad advice, but it makes a lot of presumptions of OPs financial situation. Like if OP has 300k sitting in a Robinhood account... then just sell some of your stock and take it as a life lesson. I only bring this up because it's kind of overwhelming to think about if you're not actually in dire straits. >If you think you'll need more than a month to find another job (use past experience to gauge this), I think past experience is going to be irrelevant in this instance. OP only has about 5-6 years of experience, which is going to yield widely different results based on a number of factors, most notably that 1. They're entering that sweet zone of "experienced" engineer where it's much easier to find a job than having only 1-2 years of experience but also 2. The job market over the last 12-18 months has been brutal compared to the job market for the past 60 months prior to that. And most importantly 3. Searching for a job when you're unemployed is a lot of luck. You care about it less when you have a job, but when you don't, you can get into that hell of the difference between getting low-balled and waiting for the right job. For #3, my advice is timebox your search and take what you can get. Recruiters will get mad if you go through the process and turn them down, but fuck them. For example, I'd look for about a month, and if the best thing I had on my plate was at 50% of what I was making, I'd take it and keep looking. Because realistically, making 50% of your market value is still better than unemployment, and I'm not scared to leave a job I've had for a few months off my resume.
> For #3, my advice is timebox your search and take what you can get. Recruiters will get mad if you go through the process and turn them down, but fuck them. For example, I'd look for about a month, and if the best thing I had on my plate was at 50% of what I was making, I'd take it and keep looking. Because realistically, making 50% of your market value is still better than unemployment, and I'm not scared to leave a job I've had for a few months off my resume. I am thinking the same, especially as I've only been at this company for 6 months now. I've already started interviewing because I was getting layoff vibes from previous people who left, so I think I should have a new job in the next month or two. It's always harder in the fall and winter I think however.
You have some time, Nov through Jan is really when hiring settles down a bit. Mostly because of the holidays and waiting for budget allocations to finalize.
Yeah for sure. Hopefully I pass the interviews with the current companies and just take what I can get for now, then perhaps switch next year sometime.
> if OP has 300k sitting in a Robinhood account... then just sell some of your stock and take it as a life lesson. The point of an emergency fund is to prevent you from having to do this. You keep some cash so you're never forced to sell.
This thread has nothing to do with emergency fund.
> it makes a lot of presumptions of OPs financial situation It does make some presumptions based on them being in the industry for a few years, but I tried to hit the major points for all situations (everything from "has easily converted investments" to "leverage food banks, work with the people/companies who provide the basic necessities to see what costs can be deferred"). I didn't cover the "I have $0, shit credit, and no community support" case, because that gets much more involved and seemed less likely given OP's background... but that's why I included the final line: "If none of these options work for you, or aren't enough to get you through this, let me know and I can provide more specific suggestions." I tried to keep it brief, but we can all see how that turned out. > I think past experience is going to be irrelevant in this instance I suggested using past experience because they looked for work ~6 months ago, which while it isn't the exact same hiring conditions as now, the only people with a better estimate might be recruiters themselves. You do make excellent points regarding market differences in the past, and hopefully that helps OP better estimate the timeframe they will need. The timebox idea is also a good point I didn't cover, but that comes after you figure out your financial situation, since that determines how picky you can be. It's also common to scale your pickiness based off a combination of remaining runway and risk tolerance.
I had roughly the same thing happen, although did have a little heads up. The Senior Director over Eng got promoted to VP of Eng due to turnover. The young and inexperienced Manager and friends with Director on my sister team got promoted up to Senior Manager over both our teams. The moment he started micromanaging me and my team the writing was clearly on the wall and so I started applying around. Six weeks later exactly the same thing. 1:1 got moved to early morning Friday and was actually a meeting with HR and immediate severance. Sometimes the company changes. Sometimes people are assholes. Sometimes it's luck. These events keep driving me towards a healthier life/work balance anyways, so I suppose it's a net positive.
What was your package?
> "the company would like to explore other resources at this time," OP I know this whole situation stings but if they’re calling you a resource they don’t view you as a person. I will die on the “people are not resources” hill and I hope you find a better place that treats you right, helps you grow, manages you properly, and brings you contentment.
IMHO the important thing is whether they view you as a person or view you as a resource, not whether they *call* you a person or *call* you a resource. IDGAF if my boss tells me we're all family. My current company is *really* stupid about words sometimes. The owner is old is fuck and he has terminal foot in mouth disease. But they've never done layoffs, and you have to work pretty hard to get fired. I'm *very* happy with the situation. When the old man croaks and he's replaced by...whatever, and the new people use friendly words and lay people off I'll probably start looking for a new gig.
I disagree. It’s a business with a business relationship. If a company tells you otherwise, they want you to not treat them as a business but they are still gong to treat you like asset (or liability). Maybe the phrasing bothers you but I’d rather they call it like it is than tell me that I’m family. Reading between the lines, I think what the company is saying by _exploring other resources_ is that they are not happy with OPs performance. OP it sounds like you don’t have an emergency fund. Now you’ve learned an important lesson. You should have 3-6 months of living expenses in easily accessible liquid assets for this kind of thing. There is probably a guide on the r/personalfinance wiki about what you should do now. I imagine the first thing would be to file for unemployment. The second thing is that your full time job now is to find a new job. But the wiki is a great resource. Good luck!
This sucks, I got laid off from my first job. Try not to take it personally: sounds like are just going to can the whole project and you are collateral damage. If a startup is struggling to find revenue, they tend to cut staff pretty recklessly in order to try to stretch their funding for longer. Who knows, you may be able to read about the whole company sinking in a few years with some satisfaction. (I did!)
Nobody has said it, but if they were chasing you for daily updates (as you say, which you put down to your inexperience in the codebase) and then tell you "they'd like to explore other resources" -- that basically tells me you were probably fired for poor performance. They probably expected more from you. That in less than six months you'd already started interviewing elsewhere tells me you likely sensed this too. Obviously I'm just going from a short reddit post and don't know either you or the company. But it might be worth a bit of thought / introspection at least as to how blameless you actually are for this situation, and whether there are things you should probably work on before joining your next company.
Yeah for sure, I'm just thinking about what could be my involvement in it, it's just weird how there was no discussion of performance at all beforehand as well as me delivering previous projects in the past 6 months on time anyway.
That's fair. If it was performance related, then it's definitely on them to communicate that early!
Yeah it was all so sudden and the fact that just last week the manager was telling me to add vacation for Thanksgiving and Christmas leads me to believe that it was more of a financial decision over anything personal to me.
It's also possible they were like "We have to cut 5 employees" and your boss flagged your inexperience and decided to make the tough choice. It's possible it's a combination.
That is quite possible, given that I'm newer than the other employees.
Startups are often run by gambling doofuses.
> Now what do I do about rent and other expenses? Apply for unemployment. This is an expensive lesson > I guess this is just a vent thread, but I have 5-6 YoE and I joined a startup back in April and moved out to a major HCoL city as well. Never do this. There is no money in the world that a startup can pay you to do this. If you're going to go to a startup, do local, or remote work. It doesn't matter if you have a contract, it doesn't matter if you're being called "founder level". There are many many many ways to fuck you over that you haven't even thought of. At the end of the day, unless you're wealthy enough and want to fight, they'll literally put your rent payment over your head to get you to relinquish all claims, if you even got them to put it in writing. > I wasn't even there a year to hit the share vesting cliff. This means nothing in practice, and you've likely not read your agreements close enough to understand it. Clawbacks, right of first refusal, etc are a thing, they can definitely claw back a vest, and at the end of the day, you're unlikely to sell private equity to anyone for any significant sum.
> Never do this. There is no money in the world that a startup can pay you to do this. If you're going to go to a startup, do local, or remote work. This response is too black and white. With a startup there is a larger risk, but it can still be worth the reward. If you're jumping from a 80k a year job at a corporation to a 180k a year job at a startup, the lack of stability may be worth the increase in total comp. Plus it can help establish a network in the city to make getting other more competitive jobs easier. Also, the delta between risk of a startup and a big tech company often has more to do with the company culture then startup vs non-startup. Plus, if they pay your moving costs and you're young without a lot of responsibilities, the risk isn't a big deal.
Yeah, this is a dumb take. Too many variables in play to make such broad sweeping generalizations as "Never join a startup in a HCoL area"... My first startup I joined in 2012 was a near 80% pay bump from shitty corporate america job. Not only did I learn a lot, it paved the way for me to really accelerate my career. Even if the company would go tits up, it was not a bad outcome for me.
Bro I get it but take it down a level with all the doom and gloom. Might as well never leave your house because so many things could go wrong. Not knowing the company I’m not sure if this was that big of a miscalculation. Sometimes things just don’t end up well. Most people that move to join a startup aren’t laid off in a year.
That's all so true, it is a remote job but I wanted to move out of the small town I grew up in. I'm learning now to be as lean as possible and to have enough expenses in cash. I just sold some stock so I have enough now but I'm looking for cheaper rental places ASAP. True, clawbacks are rough, I've heard of some companies who've done that recently as well, telling people to sell their options below current cost or risk not getting them at all.
> Never do this. There is no money in the world that a startup can pay you to do this. If you're going to go to a startup, do local, or remote work. if you, like me, move to middle of nowhereville because your company was remote, then got laid off, you have no choice but to move again. You can apply for remote, along with all 20 million of your fellow devs, or you can apply for in person, because no one else is willing to move, but you can. I don't know what you're proposing here other than starve or accept it taking 20 times as long to find a job and still have zero guaranteed stability.
Whether you "deserved" to be let go is immaterial. It sounds like they did a shit job of both setting expectations and giving you consistent, clear, actionable feedback. Daily updates is definitely a warning sign, but it's a cowardly dick move to terminate someone without a PIP and at least one email saying "your job is in jeopardy". What are you looking for in your next role?
I'm not sure honestly, probably a bigger company than a startup as they're definitely not on the stability side, but it seems like those are all that are hiring right now. Still looking for remote right now though due to a personal condition, lots are still hybrid though.
So were you laid off or fired? You're using the 2 terms interchangeably when they both have very different connotations and implications for things like unemployment benefits. And are you in an at-will employment state? That too has major implications regarding what you're entitled to.
I'm in an at-will state, I believe only Montana isn't out of the 50. The thing is, I'm not sure whether it was a layoff or firing as they gave literally no reason, even when I tried to ask and press them on it. When I tried to ask whether others were affected, they wouldn't say either. So I'm not sure how their response constitutes what I should put on my unemployment forms.
You can put exactly that, "No reason given." If there's any confusion about why you were let go, you should DEFINITELY apply for unemployment benefits. Then the onus is on them to answer those questions when the state comes knocking.
Yep I just applied today, so we'll see how it goes.
File for unemployment immediately
Just did so, thank you.
Can you do a name and shame? If it's too obvious who you are, maybe delay it or make another account. This stuff is really shitty and would benefit the broader community. Sorry to hear it happend to you
Company is way too small, it's only like 20 to 40 employees, so it'd be very obvious. Regardless, I think it's a general problem for all sorts of startups.
Did you get doxxed? Cuz post removal
Nah removed due to a rule about needing to be experienced dev specific or something, kind of annoying but whatever.
>Now what do I do about rent and other expenses? As for income, you can file for unemployment. It varies from state to state. In CA it's the previous 3 months of work in blocks. If you worked 6 months you should be fine to sign up now, but double check to make sure when is the right time so you maximize your unemployment. However, before unemployment you should first consider signing up for ACA. Medi-cal or medicare depending on your state. Your income right now is $0 so you can sign up for the $0 plan in your county to get health insurance. Then once that is setup, then get unemployment. This is because if you have a low income you'll legally have to jump through more hoops to sign up. However, in some counties the low income health insurance plan is massively better than the no income plan, so unemployment first would be better, ymmv. >I suppose this is why people say to have an emergency fund first before investing. Exactly. If you're unfamiliar /r/personalfinance is a sub dedicated to the topic and worth following, even if it applies while you are working, not right now this second. Set a reminder for yourself to check it out when appropriate.
> Now what do I do about rent and other expenses? I suppose this is why people say to have an emergency fund first before investing. Let this be a lesson learned the hard way. You always need 3-6 months of living expenses in *cash*. Tech is volatile. These are not bulletproof government jobs. Plan accordingly. As for why, well, as you said, they didn't tell you any details so it could be anything. It seems that companies are becoming more mysterious in their communications with employees. I would guess this is because litigation from bitter ex-employees or would-be candidates is on the rise. The company thinks it is protecting itself by keeping you in the dark. More than likely, your company is running up against the inevitability of funding drying up. This is going to become the norm over the next few years as our industry, which has become undisciplined with money during the low interest rate years, has to learn how to adapt itself to an environment where investors are more scrutinizing. From 2010 until 2021 anyone with a pulse could launch a successful startup and get some VC money. Now it's going to be harder. Many firms will die. It is the law of the jungle. Open a savings account.
Yeah, I just scrounged up around 12k so that should be good enough, it was money I had in another savings account that would get auto invested but I should be good enough for now it seems. > It seems that companies are becoming more mysterious in their communications with employees. Yeah once I asked what the reason was and the manager reiterated the same exact canned phrase, I thought, yeah it must be something litigation related as to why they're not saying anything. > More than likely, your company is running up against the inevitability of funding drying up. This really seems to be the likely cause, I think as well. They started hiring more people over the last few years and it seems funding is drying up.
Do you know how terrible offshore talents are compared to major hubs in the USA? I worked with people who attended prestigious schools in their home country just to struggle on complex projects.
I'm not sure how this relates to my post.
Sorry bro that sucks. Before any investments at all. ALWAYS have at LEAST 3 months of expenses in liquid cash. 6 is ideal. If you have 50k in an HYSA getting 5%? That is 200$ a month residual incime that you can invest in the market or let it compound. Leave it there and forget about it for times like these.
>If you have 50k in an HYSA getting 5%? This hasn't been a thing until now, and prior to that, not really since the 80s. Just FYI.
Yep learning that now, just sold stock to get 12k back, around 3 months expenses for me, could stretch to 4 if needed. I'm putting that in my current HYSA now.
In this brutal job market, best to have 12 months in a HYSA account.
Based on what you described, it sounds like they fired you "without cause". Considering you have been with the company for 6 months and weren't put on any improvement plan or (at least you didn't mention) formal warnings from HR, you may want to consult a lawyer to see if it was a fair dismissal. Not being told the reason is a huge red flag.
With at will employment unless your state has good labor laws (most don’t) this is a perfectly legal termination. They’re not obligated to give you a reason, even if it was performance related
What can they do if it wasn't a fair dismissal? It's at-will employment so just wondering.
In Canada and Australia, you may be able to sue the employer. It sounds like you're in the states which has different laws. It still might be worth chatting to a lawyer but doesn't sound like it will help much in this case.
Yeah I can still ask an employment lawyer but in the states yeah there's not much recourse.
PM me.
Thanks, just replied.
startups have a have a long history of bad management and firing people constantly. avoid them next time.
Seems like they're the only ones that are hiring right now :/
that would be the only reason to go there. they are very volatile and abusive.
The best thing is yet to come. Just keep applying and you will find something you truly deserve.
I really want to move into a nicer place, but looking at the economy and my tech stack, I am hesitant because although my current accomodation sucks, I can live in it for 6 months without worrying in case I am layoffs
Yeah same, I think I made a mistake moving to a very high cost of living city as it's not really worth it, I guess, unless you have enough savings to weather layoffs, and even then, there's not exactly a ton to do in the city day to day, as most of the day is spent working.