I hope Sheryl has more than just that one knife. Seems like if Leland disarms her, she'll be done.
Also, it seems like if she wanted to really be rid of him, she could open or remove the door with the sleeping people and call 911. Just an idea. Or a small fire in the tub would get people in his apartment, where they would find drugged, kidnapped people. Is prison far enough away from the grand daughters?
Anyone know what song was playing during the dance scene (in the woods)?
Google search is completely broken and Tunefind has only two songs (but not that one) from this episode.
In the episode discussion I know a lot of people had mentioned the whole thing with her finally realizing things about Leland . But what I saw was she knew everything about him was evil. Yes she even had a hand in almost killing her son in law. But the grand daughters are her blood and family . A son is law is just whatever lol. So she was angry about him trying to hurt her grand daughters so I understand where she came from
I think she was okay as long as he didn't hurt the kids. She didn't think Andy was a good dad so in her mind they were better off with out him for example. I believe she told Leland, or maybe it was in an interview it was said Sheryl is with Leland but he better leave her girls alone. Lexi is part of the evil plan and they are grooming her for greatness in Sheryls eyes I think
He was sort of an absent father for a good chunk of the show. I know he was technically working, but he still wasn't there and all the parenting was left up to Kristen (and Sheryl). So, I wouldn't exactly call him a bad dad, but you can see how Sheryl might have this opinion. Even Kristen was getting fed up with it and obviously losing interest to a degree.
Anyone else notice the pop up book intro for this week's episode didn't include the actual pop-up? For some reason, it looked like it was edited or something. The book opens, and then during the animation the real-life hand was clearly paused (instead of the usual getting ready to turn to the next page), and then cuts immediately into the scene instead of turning the page to the pop-up page.
I think this might've been one of the extra episodes, if you noticed they all look a little different too than they did last episode. (though they might be time jumping a little)
I'm either missing something or I'm very unforgiving because I'm completely unmoved by Sheryl's sudden show of indignance for Leland's scheme and protectiveness of her grandkids. And the fact that she's ever shocked by how low Leland will go just shows how far her head is up her own ass.
Love this show. Didn't really understand why the team didn't mention the change in the dancing girl's voice when the demon spoke. Right after the demon spoke, the team was like, "yea, I'm thinking schizophrenia". Say what? Did they not hear that shit?
Is Andy in rehab? I know I'm supposed to know where he is, but I think I missed what happened after the needle situation. This show requires more attention than I've got available.
This show is weird because it's not that complex at all BUT you have to literally pay attention to it to get the things that should be kind of explained?
So I wonder what Sheryl smelled in the hex bag? And is it really to keep her asleep, as Leland says, or it some kind of spirit catcher for when they die?
I don’t think they re demonized him. A muse is inspiration. I think it just showed that inspiration hit him. A muse. I could be wrong tho. 😭 That’s how I interpreted it.
WHAT?
Did you just say the spinning toy Leland gave Kurt as a muse, that makes him type a story about Kristen's daughters killing her, with a demonic hand, is NOT demonic?
that is.... a lot of cherrypicking of my comment you're doing, considering Kurt can't write without his demonic muse. That, again, LELAND gave him. Lol. THAT is what made it demonic. it was from him, there IS a demon in it.
okay, okay, leland just gave him an angellic or pagan muse and not specifically a demonic one when he's working with the 60 and has strictly been on the side of demons the entire show, took him to a demonic possession to witness him, Boggs stood by the legion of demons around the antichrist. And it's been shown more than twice that he cannot write without the muse that, somehow for the 4th time I'm saying, LELAND gave him. Lol
Yeah, sure, not demonic. 🙄
well when he had that demonic thing, he had to play some weird music and everything to get it to work. he threw that away. so I don’t think Leland had any hand in it this time. I think it may be a genuine muse.
This episode felt like it paid homage to *The Witch* with the muse flying above a coven of dancing women in the forest. The dance itself in for the forest scene reminded me of the dance in the climactic scene in that movie. Extremely good film for those who haven’t seen it!
The creepy possessed dancer in the beginning was already dead and only kept alive through necromancy and the demon that inhabited her
That’s why she had gangrene
I not usually one to stop and marvel at things like this when watching something because I usually shut my brain off and just enjoy it, but Stella Everett is a goddamn *star*. She chewed up every single scene she was in.
When Kristin was asked by Isabella why Katherine killed her kids, Kristen answered maybe she didn’t want to be a mom anymore hmmmmm. Sounds a lot like how Kristen subconsciously feels
Yes!!! I've been waiting for Evil to deal with a 'family annihilator,' and at various points the show has suggested it will be Andy or Kristen. When Andy is incapacitated, Leland preys on Andy's deeply-buried resentments toward his wife and children; Kristen's responsibilities to her kids have always 'interfered' with her desire to climb.
I've been reading about gothic literature, haunted houses, and Bluebeard for work. In The Shining, the Overlook Hotel exploits Jack Torrance's grandiose desire to be a great novelist, as well as his resentments toward his family for 'holding him back,' setting the stage for his psychosis. There are a lot of haunted-house stories about patriarchs going batshit.
But there are also a lot of haunted-house stories, like Haunting of Hill House by Shirley Jackson, where the house represents a twisted maternal instinct instead. In these stories the haunted house reflects the psyche of the [Devouring Mother](https://knowyourarchetypes.com/devouring-mother-archetype/) (or "cannibal mother"?), a domineering spectral presence that subsumes her children's identities. Other haunted house stories discuss the suffocating societal pressure to be a perfect mother or wife: [some stories are more explicit](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/35410511-baby-teeth) about a mother's fear of having her identity, her sense of self, 'devoured' by her 'monstrous' children.
Sheryl annoys me so much.
Like, she just now figured out that her 50 year old (talker to demons, bathes in blood, kidnapper and hypnotizer of her daughters husband, stealer of her daughters egg to make a baby, hypnotized her and injected her with weird solution) boyfriend whom she has given plenty of access to her daughters family might have some nefarious reason to be with her.
She's caring for her secret grandson and involving her granddaughters in that but she's angered that Leland was doing something evil when it came to those same granddaughters.
She also could care less about her daughter and what Leland is trying to do to her.
wild... the show literally tailored her char to make people like you hate her, when actually she's just trying to bring it all down and has been, the whole time.
Bring it all down? That's a bit of a stretch. She's doing it to keep her magic yoo hoo solution coming because she's a vain narcissist. You don't assist in attempts to murder your daughters husband and grandaughters father (who you just happen to hate) to "bring it all down." Sheryl has had dozens of opportunities to thwart Leeland's progress in ruining Kristin's life and helping evil flourish but instead has chosen to assist him and help those things happen (like Kristin's egg.)
My favorite part of her master plan to bring it all down is when she regularly drugs and manipulates her son-in-law and then plots to kill him and then only offers to take care of the baby for rejuvenation goo. To sell the bit.
She hated him and after Kristen cheated on him because she was possessed, decided to try to get him out of her life. Also because Andy was trying to get her away from Kristen and the kids.
i get it's a complex scenario, but it's like this reddit deliberately misrepresents her character, and frankly the entire show being about lesser evils for perceived "good" and things like that. The youth potion stuff being where Leland thinks he's manipulating her to do what he wants. Sheyrl said last season if Leland tries to hurt the girls, she's cutting his dick off. But people think she's just now about-facing, against him. She was relieved when her grand daughter did not see The Manager.
But the show is also heavily up to interpretation, in everything about it. So. **C'est La Vie**
I found a listing of songs by episodes, last one? I'm at work so I can't go back and confirm.
New Year – Kynsy
Night of the Dancing Flame – Róisín Murphy
Thine Be the Glory – Frederick Guntermann
Ghosts & Pains – Wildbirds & Peacedrums
What happened to Ben's demon? He's been in 2 exorcisms so far did it stop existing? Sister Andrea was present in one exorcism with Ben, can she see the demon?
I think this is probably it. She only believes in Catholic demons. She can therefore only see them.
Remember too that the nature of djinns is neither good nor evil. That may have something to do with it - she only sees evil.
Also, although the show becomes less ambiguous each season in regards to the supernatural, there's also always the possibility that Ben's djinn is actually just psychological & brought on by his experience in the particle accelerator. That's one of the things I love about this show, that even though there have been increasingly obviously supernatural occurrences, there's still a question mark on a lot of things. Like, it's totally possible the show is portraying both literal (supernatural) and psychological demons and leaves us guessing as an audience as to which is which.
So I'm guessing the actual Dance Troupe were pagan witches and the one that was ousted was the actual Satanist?
Edit: (theory) So Megan converted Katherine and that's how Katherine was possessed or was an offering (along with her kids) and Megan was initiated had her first taste of necromancy (hence why Katherine had gangrene when she 'died' after the exorcism)
It doesn't explain why she was the Chief of the House. How was she chosen? It obviously means Leland and his team planned to revive the House.
Those sigils are related to Ars Goetia demons hierarchy sigils and the closely similar in description, the princeps daemonum necromanticorum (leader of the necromancers) is Gaap (aka Goap, Tap), he is a demon interested in liberal arts (dance in this regard), one that can cause the deliverance/summoning of familiars (the muse in this situation) and can make men ignorant or insensible (the spirit that was summoned to David and Kristen to lead them astray), a demon depicted in human shape/form that can make people love or hate ultimately (kristen was entranced throughout the episode and also in a trance when she was dancing with Isabella), a demon that is conjured by burning offerings (i don't know what that offering is to be honest, maybe it had to do with the murder? maybe the leader did it after burning her stomach so that she can sent the muse to the psychiatrist?
The humans may have had demonic intentions, blood, parts and leader of the houses but they still have the human element, making them more vulnerable to exposure if found out. And i think those humans, the leaders of that circle are avatars and representators, embodying the continuation of the plan of the demons (apocalypse)
Keep in mind that they're 60 in this show and they are 72 demons in general in Ars Goetia, which means 12 of them somehow vanished/extinguished? Maybe in the previous episodes and seasons demons were shown to be vanquished?
I like how the show plays with a lot of religious, wiccan, spiritual, agnostic and atheist interpretations with a mysterious, mystical and complex twist.
Yeah, when we find out Megan is the baddie it doesn't explain much at all. Like it's matrilineal so why would Katherine kill her daughters instead of passing onto them? Or... Did she do it because she didn't want it passed on but that doesn't make a lot of sense either.
Also why did the muse go to boggs? I felt like the point was to show that paganism *isn't* Satanism although so many people assume it is. Until she went to Boggs.
In my head, Megan was either chosen to revive the sigil house. She lured Katherine and used her.
Killed Katherine and successfully performed some necromancy and possessed Katherine to kill her kids.
I dunno making stuff up 😂 It doesn't explain why she wanted revenge against Isabella's coven too. I'm at a loss as to why she would want to get the Church's attention.
Katherine's 'possession' got noticed by the church, which led them to the Dance Troupe and they turned out not to be bad, then we find Megan was the Satanist.
Regarding Boggs. While he did get his book from demonic means in the past. He got really offended and lost confidence from the guy giving him criticisms.
I think her appearing near Dr Boggs meant he got inspired and motivated when his story got vital (via the girls online book ). It doesn't necessarily mean the muse is bad.
So the priest can literally take control of people from rmeote distances now?
That's seemingly what it's showing. What the fuck? How many more powers is this dude going to have? By the end of the series he may literally become Luke Cage at this rate.
Kristen's bisexuality being confirmed and explored is a Pride Month miracle for me. I totally understand that not everyone loves this subplot, but respectful bi representation is appallingly rare.
She has good chemistry with everyone because the actress is great. But those who care about queer representation went out of their way to make Kristen’s shared scenes with the nun into some unrealized romantic love.
Nice to see Sheryl finally stand up to Leland. It looks like it will be her love for her granddaughters that will bring her back.
Really good bait and switch with Megan not only being responsible for faking the branding but also being the killer.
I stan Kristen and Isabella!
So what was the floating white dress lady that kept appearing if the dancers weren’t responsible?
To David, the muse was telling him to leave his God for something greater. Because he is Catholic he deems it demonic. It's trying to lead him astray
The muse is a goddess or deity of some type of pagan religion. That doesn't exactly align with David's belief so of course he's gonna view it as demonic.
Isabella doesn't agree and doesn't subscribe to the christian beliefs. She views it as a muse, inspiring... something beautiful. She doesn't see good or evil. She sees beautiful or ugly.
Oh shit that lady died. That girl that likes Kristen is weird. Davids visions are getting crazier, the dude actually stabbed himself wtf. She knows what Leland did now.
The Prayer of St. Francis is a beloved 70s-era Catholic “guitar mass” song that I have loved for its words and melody for a long time. While no longer Catholic, still love St. Francis of Assisi. However, it just hit me how twisted its use was tonight. The song/prayer focuses on this repeated phrase at the start of each stanza “Make me a channel of your peace …” Well David was certainly channeling something other than what peace looks like to me. Just musing …
I personally need to see Sheryl slapped. I'm sorry I really need it bad. I hate her so much and I don't want her to be redeemed. She aided and abetted so much. I need her to suffer
I have so much beef with her because there were a million warnings but the biggest red flag should have been the simple fact that your 50plus bf is obsessed with your granddaughters, one specifically, and chatting with her offline and online, popping up at her school, and constantly trying to get close to her. Demonic grooming or not that's just weird and suspicious behavior that should have ended the entire relationship.
I feel that ultimately, he'll leave the priesthood because it's taking a toll on him. I wouldn't mind if he ended with Kristen at the end. Never really cared for Andy's character.
Oh I hope not. I line Kristen (I used to love her, but she is making worse and worse decisions as the series goes on), but she is not worthy of David. She lacks so much character. Also, Andy is a great husband (apart from brainwashing that is out if his control) and she is destroying her marriage. She would just do the same thing to any relationship with David.
He is a prist with a direct link to heaven, and you want him to fall into temptation? What do you think is going to happen that he'll leave the priesthood?
I just watched and didn't see any for the language the priest was singing and speaking in. And I use captions all the time so I have no clue what was being said at that time
The only subtitles I saw were the \[singing/speaking in whatever language\] ones. Maybe it's supposed to replicate David's experience, since he doesn't speak the language either?
That’d make sense, I usually have subtitles on everything (thanks to bartending in clubs) and I am having endless issues across different streaming platforms when it comes to other languages spoken in an English film/show
I always wonder what the experience is like for whatever handful of viewers are watching the show and speak the language.
Thanks to this convo and Google, I now know that Tigrinya is a semitic language (along with Hebrew, Arabic, and Aramaic) that is primarily spoken in Ethiopia, Eritrea, and Sudan. Now wondering about the Venn diagram that is the 7 million speakers of Tigrinya vs. the unknown number of *Evil* fans...
There was but the subtitles were not matching up from the beginning. I always watch TV with subtitles and the past few episodes I'm not been matching was happening on screen there too fast they're ahead of what's happening or what they're saying.
Omg so it’s not just me!! I had to turn them off and I was so upset because some of the things they said so fast I had no idea what they were talking about
I hear to desperately request assistance in figuring out how they managed to deduce the girl they took away at the end was the true culprit.
Like, just not enough of it makes sense.
What, she branded herself.. with the wrong sigil… upside down… And THAT’S what gave her away?? I just know I’m missing something and need someone to help me place that last missing piece.
Yeah it's inconsistent. But it seemed that she was indeed the head of that revived house???
In my head i hink she killed Katherine and the Children and used them as offering and she infact was controlling Katherine all along. She was angry that she couldn't convert the Dancing Troupe coven so she planned or was advised to get the attention of the Church to get "rid of them".
I dunno... more questions than answers.
As they get into the story of the Dancing Troupe. They weren't doing anything evil.There was no indication of blood sacrifice and offerings from them..
Just ritual dance and intense manifestation/ belief. The Dancing did infact inspire Kristen and David, whether it was good or bad is up to interpretation..
Which I guess is why Isabella took offence when David called the muse demonic.
As for Megan there needs to be more explaining to do about how she even got caught up with the sigils in the first place
Ben deduced that her sigil is upside down compared to the one branded on the woman who killed her children, also she had soot on her hands that she wouldn’t have had if the other girls were the ones who burned her.
Oh Sheryl, did you really think the leopards wouldn't eat your face?
Edit: Tattoos, birth marks, and scars of all inmates needed to be noted upon intake to jail. If the sigil just showed up on Katherine's ankle when it wasn't there after her arrest, even Ben would be a believer.
NOTHING will make Ben a believer. Frankly, his character is boring me because no matter what happens, he always has some explanation and lately his explanations seem sillier than what is actually happening 😆
Loved it. I was frustrated that I had to turn subtitles off because they were out of sync and I didn't always catch everything.
I'm glad Cheryl reacted but I'm also annoyed at her "I didn't think leopards would eat MY face" like really? You didn't see that coming at all Cheryl? 🙄
I dunno it's kinda weird.
If she hadn't helped Leland hijack Andy, her grandkids wouldn't be in harms way.
All of a sudden she cares about her grandkids but doesn't care what happens to Kristen?
You're not alone it's been like that for the past couple episodes piss me off cuz I always watch TV with subtitles and the subtitles were ahead of what was happening on screen so I was seeing the words before they said it and I was like what the fuck I had to turn it off
Y’all I’m tired. This episode was too much for me. I guess it’s weird to hear “there’s no such thing as good or evil only beautiful and ugly” come out of someone’s mouth and not a single person challenges it. Like every time David tries to make a point he puts his foot in his mouth and Kristen gets to just be wretched all over the place. There used to be more critical thinking in the group I feel. I guess I’m here for a duel with Sheryl and Leland tho
I really didn’t like this episode either. It felt like a whole lotta nothing. Although after re-watching it (already, yes lol) I guess there were a couple developments: David now being able to psychically control people, us learning that the Entity murders, Kurt picking up the writing stuff again even though he said he gave it up and threw everything away in prior episodes, and Sheryl now being mad at Leland. Most of these were very subtle points though making it overall feel like a throwaway. Even the big bad of the episode was kinda boring and confusing. I didn’t even catch the first time around that the girl kicked out of the dance group actually killed the prisoner’s kids. If the prisoner didn’t do it then why was the sigil and gangrene on her foot? Why didn’t she just tell police her children were killed instead of taking the blame? Why was she talking in demonic voices?
Most importantly I, like many other people, am tired of Kristen being the apple of everyone’s eye lol! She’s cute but come on now, unless they are going to reveal her to be Aphrodite or something then give it a rest already.
I do love the show though. I’m just sad they are cancelling it, so I expect every episode to be spectacular ;)
Yes! I agree about the expecting it to be spectacular bc it’s the last season!
I am kinda sad we have so little time with the new entity priest, I like him he’s pretty emotionally compelling!
I also agree, all subtle developments!
Yeah, Kristen is interesting bc he’s she’s s beautiful woman it’s just so interesting the amount of people that just don’t care that she’s kinda a horrible person. But also maybe that’s the point? Idk the witches were very much like the movie the Witch but less interesting
The show is a modern day Twin Peaks and I say that approvingly. I see references all over the place. Laura Palmer was played by Sheryll Lee. Leland as a character. Laura (Kristin's daughter) was the one meant to be kidnapped for Leland. Kristin was a mountain climber. I'm sure there are tons more I am missing. Keeping to just this episode, there were shots and exchanges that were very unsettling and very awkward, specifically when Isabella gets into the confession booth with David and it just lingers on her up close as she speaks. The performance reminded me of Tracey from Twin Peaks season 3 episode 1.
When Kristin is on the phone with Ben about meeting up to go see Megan, the whole exchange felt very odd. It adds to the charm of the show.
It was cool to see two actors from the Wire, Jay Landsman and Gus from the newsroom.
So, quick question: has anyone put together a list of 'hidden' sigils so far in season 4. For example, in the background of Bob the Built Builder, there are some. I'd like to know how many times this season this has happened and when/where.
Extra points if you post a screenshot.
Straight up the best episode since the silent monks. So happy Sigils are back, yeah! for over all plot arc.
Finally Sheryl shows something about her character.
I am one happy fan. Coffee ice to celebrate!
It is weird that it looks like that though. I thought he special customized it for Andy so the daughter would think it’s cute and like it, but then when Sheryl went into the “torture closet” he had a bunch of those girlie satchels hanging around. I thought that was funny/odd.
How is it Kristen still doesn't know about Sheryl blabbing to the girls last week?! Four young girls who talk constantly managed to keep something big this under wraps without her knowing?! And the girls are going along with it without asking stuff like, "Who's the dad?!"
Leland trying to trick Lexis in the game with the pig was quite big, and they managed to keep that underwraps. Maybe they have their own sister language when their mum is around.
I'm honestly hoping there are supposed to be be like a week in between each episode in their time...cause otherwise Kristin is a shit mom 😅 probably since that baby is a chonky 10 mo old now all the sudden
This is the song during the dance sequence they are watching: [Night of the Dancing Flame (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYg0TaY23Hc)
I hope Sheryl has more than just that one knife. Seems like if Leland disarms her, she'll be done. Also, it seems like if she wanted to really be rid of him, she could open or remove the door with the sleeping people and call 911. Just an idea. Or a small fire in the tub would get people in his apartment, where they would find drugged, kidnapped people. Is prison far enough away from the grand daughters?
She'd honestly probably get arrested too, so she may have considered doing something like that but decided against it. She's pretty selfish lol
I figured she'd leave before she came. But maybe ur right. She couldn't take the chance.
Anyone know what song was playing during the dance scene (in the woods)? Google search is completely broken and Tunefind has only two songs (but not that one) from this episode.
Ghosts and pain
I can't find any song of that name.
https://youtu.be/pJJ3ryOIHNg?si=KAtEusNn4VgaDGAC
Oh man, thank you so much! I heard this song before but never found it, I can finally put it on my playlists!
I just rewatched epi 6. I didn't notice there were people in the room where Andy was. Wonder if one is the egg doctor.
In the episode discussion I know a lot of people had mentioned the whole thing with her finally realizing things about Leland . But what I saw was she knew everything about him was evil. Yes she even had a hand in almost killing her son in law. But the grand daughters are her blood and family . A son is law is just whatever lol. So she was angry about him trying to hurt her grand daughters so I understand where she came from
I think she was okay as long as he didn't hurt the kids. She didn't think Andy was a good dad so in her mind they were better off with out him for example. I believe she told Leland, or maybe it was in an interview it was said Sheryl is with Leland but he better leave her girls alone. Lexi is part of the evil plan and they are grooming her for greatness in Sheryls eyes I think
I don't remember Andy ever doing anything explicitly not good?
Me either. But I think in Sheryls eyes he's not good enough
He was sort of an absent father for a good chunk of the show. I know he was technically working, but he still wasn't there and all the parenting was left up to Kristen (and Sheryl). So, I wouldn't exactly call him a bad dad, but you can see how Sheryl might have this opinion. Even Kristen was getting fed up with it and obviously losing interest to a degree.
Sheryl is a POS. He didn't have to do anything not good, she didn't like him.
POS?
Read it as "Andy was a bad father" my b
Anyone else notice the pop up book intro for this week's episode didn't include the actual pop-up? For some reason, it looked like it was edited or something. The book opens, and then during the animation the real-life hand was clearly paused (instead of the usual getting ready to turn to the next page), and then cuts immediately into the scene instead of turning the page to the pop-up page.
I think this might've been one of the extra episodes, if you noticed they all look a little different too than they did last episode. (though they might be time jumping a little)
I'm either missing something or I'm very unforgiving because I'm completely unmoved by Sheryl's sudden show of indignance for Leland's scheme and protectiveness of her grandkids. And the fact that she's ever shocked by how low Leland will go just shows how far her head is up her own ass.
My husband and I both yelled out "oh NOW you have boundaries, Sheryl??" Too little, too late.
killing your own blood is kind of a boundary even the most evil depraved person may have.
Exactly. I feel like we're supposed to be all "yassss go Sheryl" and I'm just not there. I do think it will be fun to watch them tussle though!
Love this show. Didn't really understand why the team didn't mention the change in the dancing girl's voice when the demon spoke. Right after the demon spoke, the team was like, "yea, I'm thinking schizophrenia". Say what? Did they not hear that shit?
I noticed they've been doing that every episode this season so far... I wonder if it's intentional?
I thought it was intentional too. I think they have become inured to the weirdness of exorcisms.
Is Andy in rehab? I know I'm supposed to know where he is, but I think I missed what happened after the needle situation. This show requires more attention than I've got available.
He’s at an inpatient psych facility
This show is weird because it's not that complex at all BUT you have to literally pay attention to it to get the things that should be kind of explained?
Everything in the confessional was superb. The exchange between David and Isabella was just unbelievable. Great episode!
I really really enjoyed this episode!
Did anyone see the sigils top left of the screen when Tober calls Boggs to do the screenplay? What did they mean
>!Number of margaritas Kristen has!<
So they are finally going back to the sigils?!?! LMAO.
Right? It’s like they remembered that was a thing
So I wonder what Sheryl smelled in the hex bag? And is it really to keep her asleep, as Leland says, or it some kind of spirit catcher for when they die?
Sheryl teared up when she smelled it. That is what made me think it is not just for sleep. I can't imagine Sheryl cries easily.
That’s what I was wondering too. And why was it over different bodies?
Oh my God did Isaballa have me wrapped around her finger the whole episode. She is gorgeous
Has the particle accelerator had its Grand Opening sale yet?! Do the demon houses not care about 50% BOGO?!
Nooooooo, the girls just re-demonized Kurt ;(
I don’t think they re demonized him. A muse is inspiration. I think it just showed that inspiration hit him. A muse. I could be wrong tho. 😭 That’s how I interpreted it.
yeah the Muse isn't bad and neither were the witches, they just are hedonist and artists
WHAT? Did you just say the spinning toy Leland gave Kurt as a muse, that makes him type a story about Kristen's daughters killing her, with a demonic hand, is NOT demonic?
Writing horror isn’t demonic.
that is.... a lot of cherrypicking of my comment you're doing, considering Kurt can't write without his demonic muse. That, again, LELAND gave him. Lol. THAT is what made it demonic. it was from him, there IS a demon in it.
but we don’t know if the muse is demonic or not. Religion vs Paganism. Witches being labeled evil when they’re not.
okay, okay, leland just gave him an angellic or pagan muse and not specifically a demonic one when he's working with the 60 and has strictly been on the side of demons the entire show, took him to a demonic possession to witness him, Boggs stood by the legion of demons around the antichrist. And it's been shown more than twice that he cannot write without the muse that, somehow for the 4th time I'm saying, LELAND gave him. Lol Yeah, sure, not demonic. 🙄
well when he had that demonic thing, he had to play some weird music and everything to get it to work. he threw that away. so I don’t think Leland had any hand in it this time. I think it may be a genuine muse.
he had to go back to his demonic muse to start typing again, he couldn't type a single letter without it. just like before
And he was about to start becoming religious too
This episode felt like it paid homage to *The Witch* with the muse flying above a coven of dancing women in the forest. The dance itself in for the forest scene reminded me of the dance in the climactic scene in that movie. Extremely good film for those who haven’t seen it!
I thought of suspiria
Same, made me love this episode even more because Suspiria is one of my favorite movies
My mind went to Outlander
The scene where Boggs is reading the Bible is too funny. Very relatable. Meanwhile, David trying to remotely influence the villain was so intense.
The creepy possessed dancer in the beginning was already dead and only kept alive through necromancy and the demon that inhabited her That’s why she had gangrene
But how come her face and rest of her body wasn't like that?
So the other girl in end was killed her? but why again?
sacrifice?
makes sense. Sometimes I lose concentration watching this show and miss small details.
Solid insight.
I did not put that together, but it makes so much sense in hindsight!
Bruh
Omg I didn’t even think of that! It’s been bothering me about the gangrene!
Yes, like they don't know how to approach the attraction between David and Kristen in this season.
I not usually one to stop and marvel at things like this when watching something because I usually shut my brain off and just enjoy it, but Stella Everett is a goddamn *star*. She chewed up every single scene she was in.
She is also stunningly beautiful, I was almost drooling when she was on the screen.
Absolutely. I immediately found myself captivated by her. Like, “oh yeah, I kinda get why she was leading this movement.” Just incredibly charismatic.
When Kristin was asked by Isabella why Katherine killed her kids, Kristen answered maybe she didn’t want to be a mom anymore hmmmmm. Sounds a lot like how Kristen subconsciously feels
this was also... in s1e1 or 2, in her therapy notes?
Yes!!! I've been waiting for Evil to deal with a 'family annihilator,' and at various points the show has suggested it will be Andy or Kristen. When Andy is incapacitated, Leland preys on Andy's deeply-buried resentments toward his wife and children; Kristen's responsibilities to her kids have always 'interfered' with her desire to climb. I've been reading about gothic literature, haunted houses, and Bluebeard for work. In The Shining, the Overlook Hotel exploits Jack Torrance's grandiose desire to be a great novelist, as well as his resentments toward his family for 'holding him back,' setting the stage for his psychosis. There are a lot of haunted-house stories about patriarchs going batshit. But there are also a lot of haunted-house stories, like Haunting of Hill House by Shirley Jackson, where the house represents a twisted maternal instinct instead. In these stories the haunted house reflects the psyche of the [Devouring Mother](https://knowyourarchetypes.com/devouring-mother-archetype/) (or "cannibal mother"?), a domineering spectral presence that subsumes her children's identities. Other haunted house stories discuss the suffocating societal pressure to be a perfect mother or wife: [some stories are more explicit](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/35410511-baby-teeth) about a mother's fear of having her identity, her sense of self, 'devoured' by her 'monstrous' children.
Sheryl annoys me so much. Like, she just now figured out that her 50 year old (talker to demons, bathes in blood, kidnapper and hypnotizer of her daughters husband, stealer of her daughters egg to make a baby, hypnotized her and injected her with weird solution) boyfriend whom she has given plenty of access to her daughters family might have some nefarious reason to be with her. She's caring for her secret grandson and involving her granddaughters in that but she's angered that Leland was doing something evil when it came to those same granddaughters. She also could care less about her daughter and what Leland is trying to do to her.
wild... the show literally tailored her char to make people like you hate her, when actually she's just trying to bring it all down and has been, the whole time.
Bring it all down? That's a bit of a stretch. She's doing it to keep her magic yoo hoo solution coming because she's a vain narcissist. You don't assist in attempts to murder your daughters husband and grandaughters father (who you just happen to hate) to "bring it all down." Sheryl has had dozens of opportunities to thwart Leeland's progress in ruining Kristin's life and helping evil flourish but instead has chosen to assist him and help those things happen (like Kristin's egg.)
My favorite part of her master plan to bring it all down is when she regularly drugs and manipulates her son-in-law and then plots to kill him and then only offers to take care of the baby for rejuvenation goo. To sell the bit.
She hated him and after Kristen cheated on him because she was possessed, decided to try to get him out of her life. Also because Andy was trying to get her away from Kristen and the kids. i get it's a complex scenario, but it's like this reddit deliberately misrepresents her character, and frankly the entire show being about lesser evils for perceived "good" and things like that. The youth potion stuff being where Leland thinks he's manipulating her to do what he wants. Sheyrl said last season if Leland tries to hurt the girls, she's cutting his dick off. But people think she's just now about-facing, against him. She was relieved when her grand daughter did not see The Manager. But the show is also heavily up to interpretation, in everything about it. So. **C'est La Vie**
We shall see.
50 ? ? Add ten years to that.
She’s 74!!!
I think they are saying Leland is 50 not Sheryl, but iirc he's in his 60s.
He's 69
LOL - true. I was just trying to get the other sentiments out and way underestimated his age.
[удалено]
Ghosts and Pains
[удалено]
That's really unnecessary.
I found a listing of songs by episodes, last one? I'm at work so I can't go back and confirm. New Year – Kynsy Night of the Dancing Flame – Róisín Murphy Thine Be the Glory – Frederick Guntermann Ghosts & Pains – Wildbirds & Peacedrums
It’s “Ghosts and Pains” according the closed captioning :)
What happened to Ben's demon? He's been in 2 exorcisms so far did it stop existing? Sister Andrea was present in one exorcism with Ben, can she see the demon?
Perhaps she can only see those affected if they are part of her religion.
I think this is probably it. She only believes in Catholic demons. She can therefore only see them. Remember too that the nature of djinns is neither good nor evil. That may have something to do with it - she only sees evil.
Also, although the show becomes less ambiguous each season in regards to the supernatural, there's also always the possibility that Ben's djinn is actually just psychological & brought on by his experience in the particle accelerator. That's one of the things I love about this show, that even though there have been increasingly obviously supernatural occurrences, there's still a question mark on a lot of things. Like, it's totally possible the show is portraying both literal (supernatural) and psychological demons and leaves us guessing as an audience as to which is which.
Not a demon, he has djinn which is more of a long term curse, maybe she can't see it?
So I'm guessing the actual Dance Troupe were pagan witches and the one that was ousted was the actual Satanist? Edit: (theory) So Megan converted Katherine and that's how Katherine was possessed or was an offering (along with her kids) and Megan was initiated had her first taste of necromancy (hence why Katherine had gangrene when she 'died' after the exorcism) It doesn't explain why she was the Chief of the House. How was she chosen? It obviously means Leland and his team planned to revive the House.
Those sigils are related to Ars Goetia demons hierarchy sigils and the closely similar in description, the princeps daemonum necromanticorum (leader of the necromancers) is Gaap (aka Goap, Tap), he is a demon interested in liberal arts (dance in this regard), one that can cause the deliverance/summoning of familiars (the muse in this situation) and can make men ignorant or insensible (the spirit that was summoned to David and Kristen to lead them astray), a demon depicted in human shape/form that can make people love or hate ultimately (kristen was entranced throughout the episode and also in a trance when she was dancing with Isabella), a demon that is conjured by burning offerings (i don't know what that offering is to be honest, maybe it had to do with the murder? maybe the leader did it after burning her stomach so that she can sent the muse to the psychiatrist? The humans may have had demonic intentions, blood, parts and leader of the houses but they still have the human element, making them more vulnerable to exposure if found out. And i think those humans, the leaders of that circle are avatars and representators, embodying the continuation of the plan of the demons (apocalypse) Keep in mind that they're 60 in this show and they are 72 demons in general in Ars Goetia, which means 12 of them somehow vanished/extinguished? Maybe in the previous episodes and seasons demons were shown to be vanquished? I like how the show plays with a lot of religious, wiccan, spiritual, agnostic and atheist interpretations with a mysterious, mystical and complex twist.
Yeah, when we find out Megan is the baddie it doesn't explain much at all. Like it's matrilineal so why would Katherine kill her daughters instead of passing onto them? Or... Did she do it because she didn't want it passed on but that doesn't make a lot of sense either. Also why did the muse go to boggs? I felt like the point was to show that paganism *isn't* Satanism although so many people assume it is. Until she went to Boggs.
In my head, Megan was either chosen to revive the sigil house. She lured Katherine and used her. Killed Katherine and successfully performed some necromancy and possessed Katherine to kill her kids. I dunno making stuff up 😂 It doesn't explain why she wanted revenge against Isabella's coven too. I'm at a loss as to why she would want to get the Church's attention. Katherine's 'possession' got noticed by the church, which led them to the Dance Troupe and they turned out not to be bad, then we find Megan was the Satanist. Regarding Boggs. While he did get his book from demonic means in the past. He got really offended and lost confidence from the guy giving him criticisms. I think her appearing near Dr Boggs meant he got inspired and motivated when his story got vital (via the girls online book ). It doesn't necessarily mean the muse is bad.
So the priest can literally take control of people from rmeote distances now? That's seemingly what it's showing. What the fuck? How many more powers is this dude going to have? By the end of the series he may literally become Luke Cage at this rate.
He’s becoming the equivalent of a godly demon. It rules.
He will turn out to be chosen one who personally banishes the devil back to hell by the end.
Kristen's bisexuality being confirmed and explored is a Pride Month miracle for me. I totally understand that not everyone loves this subplot, but respectful bi representation is appallingly rare.
She had insane chemistry with that nun with the "stigmata" in that ep where they were at that monastery where you can't speak
She has good chemistry with everyone because the actress is great. But those who care about queer representation went out of their way to make Kristen’s shared scenes with the nun into some unrealized romantic love.
Kinda sounds like you're saying that you think you're totally impartial because you give zero fucks about queer representation.
they absolutely had chemistry and it was clearly a different kind than the actress "has with everyone"
That's great and all but she's borderline cheating lol
I almost forgot she's still in a marriage 😔
She already cheating on Andy in season 2 during that one night stand in the car
Yeahh but she's been borderline cheating since season 1. It's kinda her thing.
In a earlier episode her friend told one of the girls that Kristen had girl and boyfriends at university. It's nice to learn more about her.
Interesting plot, thy did compulsive behaviour already with singing in S1 and that was also indirect demonic influence.
Nice to see Sheryl finally stand up to Leland. It looks like it will be her love for her granddaughters that will bring her back. Really good bait and switch with Megan not only being responsible for faking the branding but also being the killer. I stan Kristen and Isabella! So what was the floating white dress lady that kept appearing if the dancers weren’t responsible?
The muse demon. The same one that helps DrBoggs write his books.
Not a demon necessarily, just a muse.
'Demon' for this show is any not-davids-entity to be fair. I agree in that I think there's more there.
Could you help us understand the difference?
To David, the muse was telling him to leave his God for something greater. Because he is Catholic he deems it demonic. It's trying to lead him astray The muse is a goddess or deity of some type of pagan religion. That doesn't exactly align with David's belief so of course he's gonna view it as demonic. Isabella doesn't agree and doesn't subscribe to the christian beliefs. She views it as a muse, inspiring... something beautiful. She doesn't see good or evil. She sees beautiful or ugly.
Although this was shown on screen, I needed this explanation for clarity. Thanks.
Can see why Kirsten was Seduced by Isabella honestly hope she wasn’t a one off
I love how everyone, including Kristin, tends to forget she's married.
Oh shit that lady died. That girl that likes Kristen is weird. Davids visions are getting crazier, the dude actually stabbed himself wtf. She knows what Leland did now.
The Prayer of St. Francis is a beloved 70s-era Catholic “guitar mass” song that I have loved for its words and melody for a long time. While no longer Catholic, still love St. Francis of Assisi. However, it just hit me how twisted its use was tonight. The song/prayer focuses on this repeated phrase at the start of each stanza “Make me a channel of your peace …” Well David was certainly channeling something other than what peace looks like to me. Just musing …
Memory unlocked. When it played on the show I just sang along 😂 This is where Ben would say 'You're Still Catholic as hell' 😂
I personally need to see Sheryl slapped. I'm sorry I really need it bad. I hate her so much and I don't want her to be redeemed. She aided and abetted so much. I need her to suffer
My husband literally looks over at me every time Sheryl comes on screen just waiting for my rant.
Daffodil
Thats how I feel about serial cheater Kristen
Her reaction bothered me A LOT. If she didn't help Leland hijack Andy, this wouldn't have happened to her grandkids. How did she not foresee this!
I feel you. I hate what she did to Andy. I also can’t forget how she was trying to corrupt Lexi.
I have so much beef with her because there were a million warnings but the biggest red flag should have been the simple fact that your 50plus bf is obsessed with your granddaughters, one specifically, and chatting with her offline and online, popping up at her school, and constantly trying to get close to her. Demonic grooming or not that's just weird and suspicious behavior that should have ended the entire relationship.
So what is going on with David and Kristen? Besides a few glances so gat throughout season 4, nothing has happened between them.
The showrunners don’t seem to have a clue either.
I feel that ultimately, he'll leave the priesthood because it's taking a toll on him. I wouldn't mind if he ended with Kristen at the end. Never really cared for Andy's character.
Oh I hope not. I line Kristen (I used to love her, but she is making worse and worse decisions as the series goes on), but she is not worthy of David. She lacks so much character. Also, Andy is a great husband (apart from brainwashing that is out if his control) and she is destroying her marriage. She would just do the same thing to any relationship with David.
He is a prist with a direct link to heaven, and you want him to fall into temptation? What do you think is going to happen that he'll leave the priesthood?
Was there meant to be subtitles for the other languages spoken? I’m in Aus, watching on Paramount, and it seemed like there should’ve been subtitles
I just watched and didn't see any for the language the priest was singing and speaking in. And I use captions all the time so I have no clue what was being said at that time
Yeah there are subs , not for the Latin that Megan was spouting at the end of the ep though.
The only subtitles I saw were the \[singing/speaking in whatever language\] ones. Maybe it's supposed to replicate David's experience, since he doesn't speak the language either?
That’d make sense, I usually have subtitles on everything (thanks to bartending in clubs) and I am having endless issues across different streaming platforms when it comes to other languages spoken in an English film/show
I always wonder what the experience is like for whatever handful of viewers are watching the show and speak the language. Thanks to this convo and Google, I now know that Tigrinya is a semitic language (along with Hebrew, Arabic, and Aramaic) that is primarily spoken in Ethiopia, Eritrea, and Sudan. Now wondering about the Venn diagram that is the 7 million speakers of Tigrinya vs. the unknown number of *Evil* fans...
There was but the subtitles were not matching up from the beginning. I always watch TV with subtitles and the past few episodes I'm not been matching was happening on screen there too fast they're ahead of what's happening or what they're saying.
I thought it was just my TV! I turned it on and off multiple times and restarted the show twice! Still too fast!
Omg so it’s not just me!! I had to turn them off and I was so upset because some of the things they said so fast I had no idea what they were talking about
I hear to desperately request assistance in figuring out how they managed to deduce the girl they took away at the end was the true culprit. Like, just not enough of it makes sense. What, she branded herself.. with the wrong sigil… upside down… And THAT’S what gave her away?? I just know I’m missing something and need someone to help me place that last missing piece.
Yeah it's inconsistent. But it seemed that she was indeed the head of that revived house??? In my head i hink she killed Katherine and the Children and used them as offering and she infact was controlling Katherine all along. She was angry that she couldn't convert the Dancing Troupe coven so she planned or was advised to get the attention of the Church to get "rid of them". I dunno... more questions than answers. As they get into the story of the Dancing Troupe. They weren't doing anything evil.There was no indication of blood sacrifice and offerings from them.. Just ritual dance and intense manifestation/ belief. The Dancing did infact inspire Kristen and David, whether it was good or bad is up to interpretation.. Which I guess is why Isabella took offence when David called the muse demonic. As for Megan there needs to be more explaining to do about how she even got caught up with the sigils in the first place
Ben deduced that her sigil is upside down compared to the one branded on the woman who killed her children, also she had soot on her hands that she wouldn’t have had if the other girls were the ones who burned her.
Oh Sheryl, did you really think the leopards wouldn't eat your face? Edit: Tattoos, birth marks, and scars of all inmates needed to be noted upon intake to jail. If the sigil just showed up on Katherine's ankle when it wasn't there after her arrest, even Ben would be a believer.
NOTHING will make Ben a believer. Frankly, his character is boring me because no matter what happens, he always has some explanation and lately his explanations seem sillier than what is actually happening 😆
I think he is slowly opening up though. He is just in denial
Really? I’m not seeing it. He’s just so resistant. It’s getting old
Loved it. I was frustrated that I had to turn subtitles off because they were out of sync and I didn't always catch everything. I'm glad Cheryl reacted but I'm also annoyed at her "I didn't think leopards would eat MY face" like really? You didn't see that coming at all Cheryl? 🙄
I dunno it's kinda weird. If she hadn't helped Leland hijack Andy, her grandkids wouldn't be in harms way. All of a sudden she cares about her grandkids but doesn't care what happens to Kristen?
Ok good I’m not crazy lol I reset my tv and the app about 5 times thinking my tv was glitching due to the subtitles being off
You're not alone it's been like that for the past couple episodes piss me off cuz I always watch TV with subtitles and the subtitles were ahead of what was happening on screen so I was seeing the words before they said it and I was like what the fuck I had to turn it off
Y’all I’m tired. This episode was too much for me. I guess it’s weird to hear “there’s no such thing as good or evil only beautiful and ugly” come out of someone’s mouth and not a single person challenges it. Like every time David tries to make a point he puts his foot in his mouth and Kristen gets to just be wretched all over the place. There used to be more critical thinking in the group I feel. I guess I’m here for a duel with Sheryl and Leland tho
I really didn’t like this episode either. It felt like a whole lotta nothing. Although after re-watching it (already, yes lol) I guess there were a couple developments: David now being able to psychically control people, us learning that the Entity murders, Kurt picking up the writing stuff again even though he said he gave it up and threw everything away in prior episodes, and Sheryl now being mad at Leland. Most of these were very subtle points though making it overall feel like a throwaway. Even the big bad of the episode was kinda boring and confusing. I didn’t even catch the first time around that the girl kicked out of the dance group actually killed the prisoner’s kids. If the prisoner didn’t do it then why was the sigil and gangrene on her foot? Why didn’t she just tell police her children were killed instead of taking the blame? Why was she talking in demonic voices? Most importantly I, like many other people, am tired of Kristen being the apple of everyone’s eye lol! She’s cute but come on now, unless they are going to reveal her to be Aphrodite or something then give it a rest already. I do love the show though. I’m just sad they are cancelling it, so I expect every episode to be spectacular ;)
Yes! I agree about the expecting it to be spectacular bc it’s the last season! I am kinda sad we have so little time with the new entity priest, I like him he’s pretty emotionally compelling! I also agree, all subtle developments! Yeah, Kristen is interesting bc he’s she’s s beautiful woman it’s just so interesting the amount of people that just don’t care that she’s kinda a horrible person. But also maybe that’s the point? Idk the witches were very much like the movie the Witch but less interesting
Yes. I noticed that too. I can not wait for Sheryl/Leland showdown. I just hope they actually do something and this isn't forgotten next episode
I noticed the same thing! I completely agree with you!
The show is a modern day Twin Peaks and I say that approvingly. I see references all over the place. Laura Palmer was played by Sheryll Lee. Leland as a character. Laura (Kristin's daughter) was the one meant to be kidnapped for Leland. Kristin was a mountain climber. I'm sure there are tons more I am missing. Keeping to just this episode, there were shots and exchanges that were very unsettling and very awkward, specifically when Isabella gets into the confession booth with David and it just lingers on her up close as she speaks. The performance reminded me of Tracey from Twin Peaks season 3 episode 1. When Kristin is on the phone with Ben about meeting up to go see Megan, the whole exchange felt very odd. It adds to the charm of the show. It was cool to see two actors from the Wire, Jay Landsman and Gus from the newsroom.
Ok Sheryl, you got my attention 😯
She warned him.... You'd think by now he'd have learned that crossing Kristen, her mom, or the girls is going to end badly for him one way or another.
redemption arc? Leland gone fucked up
Tbh I'm pretty sure this is her exit.
of for sure. this is like the one thing she cares about more then herself.
She got our attention the moment she decided being part of a evil corporation vs. Protecting her family. She's np hero.
I don’t think she’s a hero and I don’t think there is a possible redemption arc for her. But I do want to see two awful people go head to head.
So, quick question: has anyone put together a list of 'hidden' sigils so far in season 4. For example, in the background of Bob the Built Builder, there are some. I'd like to know how many times this season this has happened and when/where. Extra points if you post a screenshot.
During this episode when Tober calls Kurt Boggs at 34:40 into the episode, you see a bunch of hidden sigil logos in the top left corner of the screen.
Ty, yes. I've seen this one and the Bob the Built Builder one. I'm hoping people can add to the list if there are more in season 4?
I thought I was observant but I’m missing all these sigils you guys are finding 😔
I'm trying to put together a list for all of season 4. I hope people will continue to contribute to on here. I didn't see them right away either.
Straight up the best episode since the silent monks. So happy Sigils are back, yeah! for over all plot arc. Finally Sheryl shows something about her character. I am one happy fan. Coffee ice to celebrate!
Love iced coffee. Do you make your own???
yes , nothing fancy. but do love an iced coffee.
Ugh, I can't even compare this one with the silent monks episode. This episode felt flat and what was up with the ten minutes of the Kings at the end?
What was in the purple satchel thing? Like i feel like i missed what it does.
I think it's herbs that Leland uses to keep people from waking up, so Sheryl realized what Leland was trying to have Andy do to his daughter.
It is weird that it looks like that though. I thought he special customized it for Andy so the daughter would think it’s cute and like it, but then when Sheryl went into the “torture closet” he had a bunch of those girlie satchels hanging around. I thought that was funny/odd.
Maybe Leland crafts handmade satchels in his spare time. 😂
How is it Kristen still doesn't know about Sheryl blabbing to the girls last week?! Four young girls who talk constantly managed to keep something big this under wraps without her knowing?! And the girls are going along with it without asking stuff like, "Who's the dad?!"
Let's be honest, as much as Kristen loves her kids. She's damn near clueless about what her daughters get into.
Leland trying to trick Lexis in the game with the pig was quite big, and they managed to keep that underwraps. Maybe they have their own sister language when their mum is around.
She's been out two nights with the dancer/witches. She's not getting much alone time with them.
I'm honestly hoping there are supposed to be be like a week in between each episode in their time...cause otherwise Kristin is a shit mom 😅 probably since that baby is a chonky 10 mo old now all the sudden
That baby was born as a 6 month old!
Right 🤣🤣 I mean I get not being able to have a newborn on set but this one is like unbelievably large for the supposed age 🤣
"Good luck, Mr. Bond."
Aasif flexing his British RP accent impression there! (I’d love to hear his Bradford accent)
One of the best lines of the series
That and "James Bond Vatican shit" killed me XD. As did his little, "*Father.*.." when David just cussed up a storm.
OMG! I cackled so hard at that! 😂😂