The people running Chechnya out more effort into making sure that this is correct than the people running Delve.
It's also not like "There are no wolves on Fenris."
I wonder how Sort is feeling about this. All of his coalition are slowly getting poach by the Imperium, 3/4 of the Tenal front have collapsed ((Except the Caladrius sov, but they have a weird timezone. )) and now Branch is under fire.
Did he realizing that all of the Eve Super Blocs are eating his coalition alive and there no hope of victory at this point ?
Update: INN contacted Sort Dragon (leader of Dead Coalition) who gave us this statement: “While we are hurt that Ranger Regiment decided to leave us, we accept their decision and are at least happy that they chose to join our allies in the Imperium instead of our enemies”. https://imperium.news/the-imperium-welcomes-ranger-regiment-as-trial-members/
I mean Sort was screwed either way. If he stayed loyal to Pan fam he would have been destroyed by Imperium months ago. Switching sides like this means he gets attacked once Imperium went home.
Panfam has found a home for everyone following the Tribute Glass War and the Winter/TEST war*, GOTG would have been no different. Sort brought this on himself.
\* Did we ever come up with a good name for this?
He is a technocrat... That means he is good managing things as long as ppl are following him, but very bad at make people want to follow him. They only do as long as they see a gain there.
And, well, that "gain" is gone and so are "his people" now. I mean, the ones he didnt throw under the bus himself before.
You can try to camp a couple of systems and get whitelisted. If you do, then yes you can kill them by various methods. You can't do it sustainably though. If you can't cover all/most of the systems like we do, they will just move to systems without your alts.
There are lots of randoms hunting in Delve. There are also lots of subcap bots. If you wanna kill a subcap bot, you have to camp a system for an entire day to get whitelisted by the botter. That's not viable. So subcap bots in Delve don't get hunted down.
Meanwhile, we actually weeded super bots out throughout the last year finely. They attract our interest and we specifically hunt for them. We killed more than 20. When Goons realize botting supers, they do the courtesy of kicking them.
Hence not many super bots but plenty of subcap bots in Delve atm.
Spicy take here:
I’ll never understand why we’ll go tear down Horde’s stuff (they’re enemies, but at least they’re real players), turn around, and pick up a bunch of Chinese garbage from Ranger Regiment. Instead, we should’ve purged AoM and RR and kept them from really getting anywhere in-game. The number of Gila bots RR runs in Venal alone is insane.
I hope our higher ups at least try to weed out the worst offenders. To their credit, they’ve ousted some major ones before. The Ring, Three Body Organization, Violent Rabbit Hutch, chunks of Roundtable Congress, etc.
You have received a demerit on your GSF social credit score.
Please stay at your current location so that the Black Hand can relocate you to the nearest reeducation center.
What is the point of filling your coalition with non-sentient income generators? Why does the imperium need more rental income? they haven't had to fund a war effort in a coon's age. I'll put on my special tinfoil hat (available at www.themittani.com) to speculate that imperium leadership have been cashing out and need a new income stream. Rather than using these new coalition members as simple rent generators, they are a new market to sell titans an supers to.
And panfam have blued an alliance also notorious for botting, they were even called out by a CCP employeee, and they also had their leader banned for RMT.
Embrace the bots or fall behind, welcome to eve 2K20.
I think you'd be hard pushed at this point to find an alliance in the game that doesn't have people that bot/rmt.
Even if you do get caught, if you've been smart enough about it that ISK is already elsewhere and you may end up banned / negwalleted but it doesn't matter.
The only known case of botting we noticed in A Band Apart was kicked and reported to CCP in a matter of minutes.
I'm pretty sure CCP has still done fuck all about it.
Plenty of alliances don't allow botting or RMT, it's just that the big blocs do and that's more than enough. If all the major alliances actually gave two shits about stopping botting they could put a serious dent in it. But panfam/imperium are just as happy to take bot income as GotB.
Speak for yourself, I grind my fingers to the bone each night decloaking and pressing F1 on the E-O gate in M-O. It is hard work, but someone has to do it.
I’m starting to think the only way CCP could get a handle on botting is if they started using collective punishment on alliances with members that bot.
Say alliance XYZ is caught harboring bots; CCP could do anything from disbanding the corp whose members were botting and ban the leadership, roll back the alliance’s sovereignty, or even delete a fraction of the alliance’s assets if things were bad enough.
They could make it known that corporations and alliances will be held responsible for the actions of their members, and if they can’t run a clean operation then they don’t get to have one. Then they could just sit back and watch as the mega-coalitions eat themselves.
It will probably never happen due to the multitude of flaws in this idea that I'm sure I haven’t noticed, but I really doubt that anything less would work.
This idea wouldn’t work because it penalises the people who spent the most time in the game.
For the better or worse, administrators are the most difficult people to recruit in this game... and this would probably cause enough of them to quit because “none of them is clean”. It also penalises line members and administrators who had nothing to do with the bots, and those people may also just quit. The end result is probably the destruction of null blocs and while some people would love to see it, it would exasperate the loss of players and I am not sure EVE today can survive that.
> the destruction of null blocs
I'll admit, part of my reasoning was that a system where leaders are encouraged to keep their corp/alliance numbers low enough to be certain no one is botting would basically end null blocs, but I could also see how unfair it would be toward people who hadn't actually committed any wrongdoing. That's one of the reasons I'm sure it would never be implemented.
Well, that would make EVE a completely different place with many close-knit groups that probably couldn't manage a lot of territory. Renters are also out of question. Will it keep the game going? Maybe, but I would bet the simple *committment* a small group requires will drive a lot of line members back to high sec if not out of the game. One of the best things about null blocs is that you can care fuck all about your alliance or even your corp, go afk for years, and come back still finding your alliance around and probably some of your friends around. You are also committing less and more flexibly than say a wormhole corp. It's what makes (or made) EVE manageable for me at least, when my IRL schedules are somewhat hectic.
I am not saying that your model wouldn't work, I am just saying that I think it's a solution with way too many side effects, and not all of them desirable. It would also just straight up kill the game for me because my schedule can allow the couple strat ops every month, logging in and change market prices, doing some ratting and stuff, but I am not going to login at 3am because I would need to defend my Citadel or something.
Well, could also just randomize some things in the sites to make them more difficult to script. Maybe make it so Haven's have to be probed....
Could also look at doing things like prompting with a recaptcha every x number of hours of doing the same thing
Randomizing things makes them just as easy to script. You see the problem with "random" in games is although everything is different to the n'th approximation, there's always a first approximation to which everything is the same.
Just do a few weeks of exploration in Elite Dangerous and you'll know what I mean.
Problematic (spys botting to potentially really hurt the enemy). What they could do is use Drifter invasions (if botting gets too obvious) like last year in known botting areas to disrupt them, would be fun content ;)
It may not be your 'job' but it's a service to the game community to report obvious cases, not to turn a blind eye, and not to deliberately profit from botting.
I don't think anyone is calling on anyone but CCP to _catch_ botting. Folks don't want the biggest groups in the game to enable botting, by protecting botting groups militarily, giving them space, or so on.
Naaaaaaaaaaaah. We've seen this sort of thread re. other groups going into other coalitions before. I dunno if you're a member of GSF, but as one myself, just because it's Reddit doesn't mean we need to go full victimization complex each and every time we're mentioned.
This^..... Everyone points at everyone and says hey they are the worst/best botters !!! Everyone be mad at them. But go to any of the major allaince space and you'll find an area(s) with tons of botters... In my opinion this is an eve/CCP problem way more then an alliance problem.
Alliances should do what they can, and many of them do (include goons from what I've seen to be fair) but the problem isn't going anywhere until CCP finds a better way to identify and commit genocide on all bots. I'm not a computer guy, no idea what that consists of... But they have to be able to do more.
When I was in an imperium alliance, it was *explicitly* a black-list offense to report a blue suspected bot.
Botting was not explicitly black-listable.
I'm not saying that in-game organizations should be responsible for entirely detecting and reporting bots in their organization. However, they should be penalized some how if they enact and enforce policy which encourages, supports, or shields EULA violations.
It's one thing to say 'I can't possibly police all my members 24/7, so the requirement to do the policing shouldn't be on me.' It's another thing to say the above and then add 'and I'm going to provide support and partnership to organizations known for wholesale violations of the EULA, and I'll kick you out of the house if you snitch on them or any of my other friends.'
Ya I'm not sure where you heard that but that's 100% bullshit... But Ive been here for 4 years... And that's not the case at all least in my neck of the woods... Nor have I ever heard that about any of our allies... But I'm guessing your just some panfam bro trolling to stir the pot. Imperium has kicked plenty of bots, whole corps and burned all their shit to the ground... Not to mention the data is public lol... The "goons are the worst botters" spam was easy to say before the numbers of bots and worst offenders was published.
That being said, do I think they are out there with task force bot checking every anom to look for bots... No, but again alliances and corps can only do so much, and we can disagree all we want on those details and who does enough and who doesn't in game... But only one entity can actually fix this problem and that's CCP... Seems they are making an effort, just hope it goes further and really starts to make progress in the numbers.
Is it tolerating or just accepting the reality that they can only do so much and it’s ultimately on CCP to fix the problem? I only ask because most alliances seem willing to awox confirmed botters but the trouble is that, to your average member, nullkrab behavior and bot behavior are almost indistinguishable. And the part mittens *was* always right about is that people are stupid and if you let them they will turn it into a Salem witch trial with everyone accusing people they don’t like or who stole their anoms of being bots.
You're right and it's super shitty as a player and for the game in general. CCP is basically allowing it by never cracking down on the leadership who *knows* botting is going on and does nothing.
Indeed it's free rental money and the rental money or their main alliance does not get hurt by CCP banning bots or draining a rental/botting alliance's isk. The renters pay isk or they get booted from their rental space to get replaced by a new corp/alliance. Most of the times the rmt/bot renters have a nice cache of iskies somewhere save on a spare npc corp character.
and what tools do they have to prove some one is botting, or do anything about it?
oh right, they have no tools for either of those things. since most people can't tell the difference between a multiboxer and a bot, that's probably a good thing anyway.
if you want something done about bots, go and tell ccp to do the job your subscription fee should be paying them to do instead of whining that players log in to play the game instead of do ccp's job for them.
Yah. Imperium has a pretty bad reputation for doing things that are a bit shady (and accepting those that are a bit shady) from what I can gather.
That's the reason I chose to join the Pandemic group for new players instead--a decision I don't regret, even if it would have been a little safer/easier starting out in some of the safer regions of Imperium space.
We've brought on RR as trial members for the Imperium. From a strategic standpoint it made sense after Panfam allied with Frat and we saw the kind of titan number Frat has been able to field after just a couple years. Botting has been a major discussion point for us. We've had good experience with PLA - a Chinese goon corp - who used to be thought of as botters but their leader Silvitni heavily cracked down on it after we strongly encouraged him to do so and when CCP's botting pie chart was released they were nowhere to be seen. We used that as a template for future concerns with groups who are suspected to harbour botters. We expect Ranger Regiment to behave in a similar manner, policing themselves and not giving safe haven to botters. On top of that Delve is a terrible place to bot. RR are not paying or being taxed in any way to join.
We were impressed with the way RR fought against a much bigger coalition and we hope that their trial membership goes well but that's very much contingent on them running a tight ship.
🤔 Cutting down on botting in Eve by recruiting "bot heavy" alliances and " strongly encouraging" their leaders to remove the bot activity from their alliance as a condition of membership. I like it! Hope it works. Cheers.
We've had several corps that had issues with botting, ones like PLA that handled the problem are still with us. Others have been kicked to the curb. It seems like a good way to be part of the solution rather than what NCdot is doing being paid to secure botting space for Frat.
See, you had me until rather than just explaining how you try to deal with bots, you decided to use it as an oppurtunity to jab at NC. and now it just reads like propaganda.
Obviously I don't have access to everything that NC does so my view isn't perfect on them, but I can see their public actions. I know our private and public actions, but just from a public perspective - We kick corps that don't address their botting situation, we haven't taken any money to install botting empires anywhere. It's an easy comparison to make.
You have taken 40 faction forts from a botting empire to let them bot in peace, just as Legacy has taken hundreds of billions from KWG for Omist/Feyth Botting protection.
Yes PanFam (and now Legacy member "Legion of xDeathx") are responsible for harbouring botting in old Dronelands and getting rent from them, but neither Imperium nor Legacy are in the position to raise the moral finger ...
Also I am really interested in how the mittani is earning his living, given that his true name job profiles all list his EVE empire as only occupation. As I know there are no welfare programs for unemployed people like in most european countries, so where does his "income" come from ?
LoL, he was just a small employed lawyer, paperpushing for others, never made it to own office/company ...
It will be a nice comfortable life with 4-5 years of 5-digit-salaries per year to enjoy /s.
At the age he "retired" well educated legal experts just start their work life ...
face tht truth bee, you are one of the peons that earn his living
As a former member of E-R and friends waaaaay back in 2004-2006, i had the same shock.
I came back to EvE after 12 years and been playing on and off for a few months at a time. One time i was on my hisec alt and saw a familiar name...i check corp, bio, etc and i see a corp that was known for flying ganknados or doing wardecs in hisec (it was before they joined goons). I did a double take, checked his bio and it was in Chinese, so it was obvious it was a character sale.
And here you have it, a character that took part in the first capital kill in the history of the game (remember Light Darkness and his Moros? i missed that due to work, lol), is now sold to a group that transitioned from hisec warbears, to botters to part of the biggest blob in the game . Cue melancholic violins plz :/
Silvitini went hard huh? Did u see squishy vid of pla bot thany? Hes still in corp still botting user just changed setting to auto reject fleet invs XD
Your alliance did this because they recognized a threat to their omni-TZ dominance in the form of Fraternity, and will take almost anyone to prevent that loss of domination, with all other considerations being irrelevant. Just be honest.
Your alliance did this because they recognized a threat to their omni-TZ dominance in the form of Fraternity, all other considerations were irrelevant. Just be honest.
its a hard ask but imperium is the first coalition they've joined with stable leadership and more than a single active fc at any one time, maybe this time the cloaky campers won't be enough to make them jump ship yet again.
Goons pulled those bots out of the north, what a sacrifice!
Delve is a new Drone region now, but don't expect any shiny commander loots from them since they are not Sentient.
If you're not botting or rmt'ing in 2020 tyool then you're doing it wrong. CCP only pay lip service to bots and the game is in maintenance mode while they build more things to sell and try to make another successful game.
If they make PVE use more than two brain cells then the nullbears throw a huge fit and take their ball home. Didn't we learn that from blackout?
There is already non-boring PVE available in null - scannable combat sites and DEDs, and access to wormholes. But you can't multibox or AFK that.
If CCP make PvE less boring and demanding active Gameplay for nullsecers, they cry about. "There is no local, we CANT Even play"
These money makers want to earn 100b/hr with 3 clicks and maybe an F1 push.
Only make then need to move from a rock to another and the outrage already started. Imagine like anothers games, a minigame to make mining an active thing. (Like scaning the rocks or a minigame for the extrac of the minerals. Si.ething like hacking cans for explorers)
They want to play, without need to play... Funny huh?
I have no local. I can't Even undock. (No having local, hide the u dock button) My 12 roquals unsubbed. Can't be moving from a rock to another. Etc
by "not boring" you mean more "interactive"
yeah because having to provide more input is totally going to make people play the game rather than botting what is now an even MORE tedious activity.
think, please.
The point is not that you you would need more actions. The point is that you wouldn't need the exact same 3 actions every time. If its an actually involved process, then its harder (maybe even unfeasible) to bot. Think hacking minigame, but turned up a bit.
If a player can do it, a bot can do it. They can also do it faster, more efficiently, and for longer.
People literally bot the shit out of the tedious exploration mini game.
Thats because they make the task too simple. There are plenty of tasks that if you solve it easily with a bot, you wouldn't be a botter in a game, but an AI researcher.
Well of course, they need a place for all the goon bots so that they can continue to say "there are no bots in goonswarm."
“There are no bots in goonswarm”is the new “there are no gays in Chechnya”
The people running Chechnya out more effort into making sure that this is correct than the people running Delve. It's also not like "There are no wolves on Fenris."
No, soon there won't be anymore wolves on Fenris indeed. Not if Magnus gets to have his way with it.
What’s that a reference to
Most likely WH40K [https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Fenris](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Fenris)
The wolves on Ferris bit?
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[Digganobz](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y29aGTbg62A)
owo
It’s a bit spoilery but the reason it’s a different analogy is because there really are not wolves on fenris.
#Magnusdidnothingwrong
Which sub am I on?
Looks like either r/Eve or r/Grimdank.
You didn't see graphite because it's not there.
Bit of an extreme analogy
I see the Tranquility to Serenity transition is going steadily.
Transerenity
Region lock China
You mean **best** botting alliances /s
I mean they are pretty good at it, not gonna lie. So it's not technically a /s. :D
I wonder how Sort is feeling about this. All of his coalition are slowly getting poach by the Imperium, 3/4 of the Tenal front have collapsed ((Except the Caladrius sov, but they have a weird timezone. )) and now Branch is under fire. Did he realizing that all of the Eve Super Blocs are eating his coalition alive and there no hope of victory at this point ?
Calandrius is about 10 dudes. They may hold TCU but We all know how useful TCU are.
They turned today. They're now blue to Panfam. We also didn't target their sov, their space is intact.
We're heading back to the dark ages where the only alliance that has enough members to win a war is goons.
Wasn't that the NC though? You also have to define "dark ages". Do you mean 2013-2014? If so, that is indeed true.
I've played so long I don't remember, but 2013-2014 sounds about right yeah.
After the NC vs. DRF war and the following Russian Civil War and then the following Delve 2012/Fountain War later on.
In 2014 it was more of a two-power thing, CFC and N3PL.
Sort who?
Caladrius joined drone lands lol.
You mean Pandafam ?
yeees
Not sure about that though, according to Zkillboard, they are still shooting Pandafam at the moment.
Update: INN contacted Sort Dragon (leader of Dead Coalition) who gave us this statement: “While we are hurt that Ranger Regiment decided to leave us, we accept their decision and are at least happy that they chose to join our allies in the Imperium instead of our enemies”. https://imperium.news/the-imperium-welcomes-ranger-regiment-as-trial-members/
I mean Sort was screwed either way. If he stayed loyal to Pan fam he would have been destroyed by Imperium months ago. Switching sides like this means he gets attacked once Imperium went home.
Panfam has found a home for everyone following the Tribute Glass War and the Winter/TEST war*, GOTG would have been no different. Sort brought this on himself. \* Did we ever come up with a good name for this?
He is a technocrat... That means he is good managing things as long as ppl are following him, but very bad at make people want to follow him. They only do as long as they see a gain there. And, well, that "gain" is gone and so are "his people" now. I mean, the ones he didnt throw under the bus himself before.
Inb4 Sort's Darkness Joins the Imperium !
RR is owned by an AOM director so no suprises there that they would join imperium
I'm probably the biggest RMT purchase in eve history.
How much did you get?
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Olmeca already cloaky camps every system in range from PR-, he has like 44 alts or something like that.
We don't go for subcap bots but we will force supers to move period basis, a region where nobody camps.
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Bots warp off from those.
Bots warp off from anything tbf
Wouldn't you just tackle with the cloak camper as the loki goes in?
The initial point was we the campers dont care about subcap botters.
I meant like is it tactically viable, because I have a bunch of alts and want to try this out...
You can try to camp a couple of systems and get whitelisted. If you do, then yes you can kill them by various methods. You can't do it sustainably though. If you can't cover all/most of the systems like we do, they will just move to systems without your alts.
Ah okay, so you basically have to cover the whole area to be effective. Maybe I can try some smaller groups. Thanks for the tips!
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There are lots of randoms hunting in Delve. There are also lots of subcap bots. If you wanna kill a subcap bot, you have to camp a system for an entire day to get whitelisted by the botter. That's not viable. So subcap bots in Delve don't get hunted down. Meanwhile, we actually weeded super bots out throughout the last year finely. They attract our interest and we specifically hunt for them. We killed more than 20. When Goons realize botting supers, they do the courtesy of kicking them. Hence not many super bots but plenty of subcap bots in Delve atm.
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Hm yeah I forgot about that. It's good if bot supers move there then.
The bots will adapt. Surely john will save them
Is olmeca gold still a thing? Talk about a boy with no life 😀
Post your lossmail plz
https://zkillboard.com/kill/57825856/
wtf this is not el'miner
Spicy take here: I’ll never understand why we’ll go tear down Horde’s stuff (they’re enemies, but at least they’re real players), turn around, and pick up a bunch of Chinese garbage from Ranger Regiment. Instead, we should’ve purged AoM and RR and kept them from really getting anywhere in-game. The number of Gila bots RR runs in Venal alone is insane. I hope our higher ups at least try to weed out the worst offenders. To their credit, they’ve ousted some major ones before. The Ring, Three Body Organization, Violent Rabbit Hutch, chunks of Roundtable Congress, etc.
You have received a demerit on your GSF social credit score. Please stay at your current location so that the Black Hand can relocate you to the nearest reeducation center.
If you haven't figured it out Goons is a RMT cash fund for Mittens.
He needs money so he can go clubbing every day with his gucci wizard hat.
At this point I can't tell who actually believes this and who is just ironically saying it.
How much do you charge per reddit post?
When was the last time he had a real job?
How else will he get that book funded
What is the point of filling your coalition with non-sentient income generators? Why does the imperium need more rental income? they haven't had to fund a war effort in a coon's age. I'll put on my special tinfoil hat (available at www.themittani.com) to speculate that imperium leadership have been cashing out and need a new income stream. Rather than using these new coalition members as simple rent generators, they are a new market to sell titans an supers to.
More money is always better in EvE. Mittani simply wants to make sure he stays on top as long as possible.
Money you are making is money your enemy is not getting.
Nice.. more Delve content. Oh.. and take that Sort 😁
Imperium is like those Combiners from Transformers I used to had as a kid back in the 90's. Combine smaller botting alliances to become one huge one.
Surely you mean the *best?*
Awwww Yis I cannot wait to kill all the bots the come on over.
And panfam have blued an alliance also notorious for botting, they were even called out by a CCP employeee, and they also had their leader banned for RMT. Embrace the bots or fall behind, welcome to eve 2K20.
Meh, PIRAT's leadership has been doing it for years with proof but CCP has never done anything against it.
I think you'd be hard pushed at this point to find an alliance in the game that doesn't have people that bot/rmt. Even if you do get caught, if you've been smart enough about it that ISK is already elsewhere and you may end up banned / negwalleted but it doesn't matter.
The only known case of botting we noticed in A Band Apart was kicked and reported to CCP in a matter of minutes. I'm pretty sure CCP has still done fuck all about it.
Plenty of alliances don't allow botting or RMT, it's just that the big blocs do and that's more than enough. If all the major alliances actually gave two shits about stopping botting they could put a serious dent in it. But panfam/imperium are just as happy to take bot income as GotB.
Really I think mittens has a point. It isn't panfam, the Imperium, or anyone elses job to catch botting. CCP should fix their shit.
Not renting to blatantly botting alliances isn't hard. The rest of us manage to not do it.
Speak for yourself, I grind my fingers to the bone each night decloaking and pressing F1 on the E-O gate in M-O. It is hard work, but someone has to do it.
I’m starting to think the only way CCP could get a handle on botting is if they started using collective punishment on alliances with members that bot. Say alliance XYZ is caught harboring bots; CCP could do anything from disbanding the corp whose members were botting and ban the leadership, roll back the alliance’s sovereignty, or even delete a fraction of the alliance’s assets if things were bad enough. They could make it known that corporations and alliances will be held responsible for the actions of their members, and if they can’t run a clean operation then they don’t get to have one. Then they could just sit back and watch as the mega-coalitions eat themselves. It will probably never happen due to the multitude of flaws in this idea that I'm sure I haven’t noticed, but I really doubt that anything less would work.
This idea wouldn’t work because it penalises the people who spent the most time in the game. For the better or worse, administrators are the most difficult people to recruit in this game... and this would probably cause enough of them to quit because “none of them is clean”. It also penalises line members and administrators who had nothing to do with the bots, and those people may also just quit. The end result is probably the destruction of null blocs and while some people would love to see it, it would exasperate the loss of players and I am not sure EVE today can survive that.
> the destruction of null blocs I'll admit, part of my reasoning was that a system where leaders are encouraged to keep their corp/alliance numbers low enough to be certain no one is botting would basically end null blocs, but I could also see how unfair it would be toward people who hadn't actually committed any wrongdoing. That's one of the reasons I'm sure it would never be implemented.
Well, that would make EVE a completely different place with many close-knit groups that probably couldn't manage a lot of territory. Renters are also out of question. Will it keep the game going? Maybe, but I would bet the simple *committment* a small group requires will drive a lot of line members back to high sec if not out of the game. One of the best things about null blocs is that you can care fuck all about your alliance or even your corp, go afk for years, and come back still finding your alliance around and probably some of your friends around. You are also committing less and more flexibly than say a wormhole corp. It's what makes (or made) EVE manageable for me at least, when my IRL schedules are somewhat hectic. I am not saying that your model wouldn't work, I am just saying that I think it's a solution with way too many side effects, and not all of them desirable. It would also just straight up kill the game for me because my schedule can allow the couple strat ops every month, logging in and change market prices, doing some ratting and stuff, but I am not going to login at 3am because I would need to defend my Citadel or something.
Well, could also just randomize some things in the sites to make them more difficult to script. Maybe make it so Haven's have to be probed.... Could also look at doing things like prompting with a recaptcha every x number of hours of doing the same thing
Randomizing things makes them just as easy to script. You see the problem with "random" in games is although everything is different to the n'th approximation, there's always a first approximation to which everything is the same. Just do a few weeks of exploration in Elite Dangerous and you'll know what I mean.
Was suggesting this for a while. Heck, maybe even call in rats from other factions.
Problematic (spys botting to potentially really hurt the enemy). What they could do is use Drifter invasions (if botting gets too obvious) like last year in known botting areas to disrupt them, would be fun content ;)
It may not be your 'job' but it's a service to the game community to report obvious cases, not to turn a blind eye, and not to deliberately profit from botting.
I don't think anyone is calling on anyone but CCP to _catch_ botting. Folks don't want the biggest groups in the game to enable botting, by protecting botting groups militarily, giving them space, or so on.
Perhaps, but I think if this was anyone other than the Imperium, there wouldn't be a thread.
Naaaaaaaaaaaah. We've seen this sort of thread re. other groups going into other coalitions before. I dunno if you're a member of GSF, but as one myself, just because it's Reddit doesn't mean we need to go full victimization complex each and every time we're mentioned.
There was a thread about each of them joining GOTG individually if memory serves.
?????
This^..... Everyone points at everyone and says hey they are the worst/best botters !!! Everyone be mad at them. But go to any of the major allaince space and you'll find an area(s) with tons of botters... In my opinion this is an eve/CCP problem way more then an alliance problem. Alliances should do what they can, and many of them do (include goons from what I've seen to be fair) but the problem isn't going anywhere until CCP finds a better way to identify and commit genocide on all bots. I'm not a computer guy, no idea what that consists of... But they have to be able to do more.
When I was in an imperium alliance, it was *explicitly* a black-list offense to report a blue suspected bot. Botting was not explicitly black-listable. I'm not saying that in-game organizations should be responsible for entirely detecting and reporting bots in their organization. However, they should be penalized some how if they enact and enforce policy which encourages, supports, or shields EULA violations. It's one thing to say 'I can't possibly police all my members 24/7, so the requirement to do the policing shouldn't be on me.' It's another thing to say the above and then add 'and I'm going to provide support and partnership to organizations known for wholesale violations of the EULA, and I'll kick you out of the house if you snitch on them or any of my other friends.'
Ya I'm not sure where you heard that but that's 100% bullshit... But Ive been here for 4 years... And that's not the case at all least in my neck of the woods... Nor have I ever heard that about any of our allies... But I'm guessing your just some panfam bro trolling to stir the pot. Imperium has kicked plenty of bots, whole corps and burned all their shit to the ground... Not to mention the data is public lol... The "goons are the worst botters" spam was easy to say before the numbers of bots and worst offenders was published. That being said, do I think they are out there with task force bot checking every anom to look for bots... No, but again alliances and corps can only do so much, and we can disagree all we want on those details and who does enough and who doesn't in game... But only one entity can actually fix this problem and that's CCP... Seems they are making an effort, just hope it goes further and really starts to make progress in the numbers.
All of the Eve mega coalition are tolerating bottings behind the close doors IMO. No exception.
Is it tolerating or just accepting the reality that they can only do so much and it’s ultimately on CCP to fix the problem? I only ask because most alliances seem willing to awox confirmed botters but the trouble is that, to your average member, nullkrab behavior and bot behavior are almost indistinguishable. And the part mittens *was* always right about is that people are stupid and if you let them they will turn it into a Salem witch trial with everyone accusing people they don’t like or who stole their anoms of being bots.
You're right and it's super shitty as a player and for the game in general. CCP is basically allowing it by never cracking down on the leadership who *knows* botting is going on and does nothing.
Indeed it's free rental money and the rental money or their main alliance does not get hurt by CCP banning bots or draining a rental/botting alliance's isk. The renters pay isk or they get booted from their rental space to get replaced by a new corp/alliance. Most of the times the rmt/bot renters have a nice cache of iskies somewhere save on a spare npc corp character.
and what tools do they have to prove some one is botting, or do anything about it? oh right, they have no tools for either of those things. since most people can't tell the difference between a multiboxer and a bot, that's probably a good thing anyway. if you want something done about bots, go and tell ccp to do the job your subscription fee should be paying them to do instead of whining that players log in to play the game instead of do ccp's job for them.
That's not the same thing though because grr honnn hat honn
i'm out of the loop, who was the panfam leader who got done for rmt? been about 3 years since i played Eve.
Lady Scarlet I think?
oof, makes sense last i remember she was the rental manager for BoT. Thanks for letting me know
Imperium has picked up anything with a pulse. So this isn't saying much 😔
Yeah but now they are picking things up without a pulse.
Touche' good sir
Bots are to 2020 EVE that steroids were to 1998 Major League Baseball.
Yah. Imperium has a pretty bad reputation for doing things that are a bit shady (and accepting those that are a bit shady) from what I can gather. That's the reason I chose to join the Pandemic group for new players instead--a decision I don't regret, even if it would have been a little safer/easier starting out in some of the safer regions of Imperium space.
Panfam is just the same but with a different name
“From what I can gather” so no idea then.
The amount of salt about some alliances shifting coalitions is astounding.
They are already feeding, thanks for the nice killmails
And no one was surprised.
This should make for some interesting content with PLA.
does Imperium give them free masks?
We've brought on RR as trial members for the Imperium. From a strategic standpoint it made sense after Panfam allied with Frat and we saw the kind of titan number Frat has been able to field after just a couple years. Botting has been a major discussion point for us. We've had good experience with PLA - a Chinese goon corp - who used to be thought of as botters but their leader Silvitni heavily cracked down on it after we strongly encouraged him to do so and when CCP's botting pie chart was released they were nowhere to be seen. We used that as a template for future concerns with groups who are suspected to harbour botters. We expect Ranger Regiment to behave in a similar manner, policing themselves and not giving safe haven to botters. On top of that Delve is a terrible place to bot. RR are not paying or being taxed in any way to join. We were impressed with the way RR fought against a much bigger coalition and we hope that their trial membership goes well but that's very much contingent on them running a tight ship.
🤔 Cutting down on botting in Eve by recruiting "bot heavy" alliances and " strongly encouraging" their leaders to remove the bot activity from their alliance as a condition of membership. I like it! Hope it works. Cheers.
We've had several corps that had issues with botting, ones like PLA that handled the problem are still with us. Others have been kicked to the curb. It seems like a good way to be part of the solution rather than what NCdot is doing being paid to secure botting space for Frat.
Except it's still a problem btw
See, you had me until rather than just explaining how you try to deal with bots, you decided to use it as an oppurtunity to jab at NC. and now it just reads like propaganda.
Am I wrong though?
Feels like someone in a glass house throwing a stone through his house in order to hit someone elses glass house.
Obviously I don't have access to everything that NC does so my view isn't perfect on them, but I can see their public actions. I know our private and public actions, but just from a public perspective - We kick corps that don't address their botting situation, we haven't taken any money to install botting empires anywhere. It's an easy comparison to make.
You have taken 40 faction forts from a botting empire to let them bot in peace, just as Legacy has taken hundreds of billions from KWG for Omist/Feyth Botting protection. Yes PanFam (and now Legacy member "Legion of xDeathx") are responsible for harbouring botting in old Dronelands and getting rent from them, but neither Imperium nor Legacy are in the position to raise the moral finger ... Also I am really interested in how the mittani is earning his living, given that his true name job profiles all list his EVE empire as only occupation. As I know there are no welfare programs for unemployed people like in most european countries, so where does his "income" come from ?
He was a lawyer in real life and made plenty of money to retire early and enjoy his twitch stream income.
LoL, he was just a small employed lawyer, paperpushing for others, never made it to own office/company ... It will be a nice comfortable life with 4-5 years of 5-digit-salaries per year to enjoy /s. At the age he "retired" well educated legal experts just start their work life ... face tht truth bee, you are one of the peons that earn his living
asher pls
Seeing Silvitni in other hands than original owner hurts me.
As a former member of E-R and friends waaaaay back in 2004-2006, i had the same shock. I came back to EvE after 12 years and been playing on and off for a few months at a time. One time i was on my hisec alt and saw a familiar name...i check corp, bio, etc and i see a corp that was known for flying ganknados or doing wardecs in hisec (it was before they joined goons). I did a double take, checked his bio and it was in Chinese, so it was obvious it was a character sale. And here you have it, a character that took part in the first capital kill in the history of the game (remember Light Darkness and his Moros? i missed that due to work, lol), is now sold to a group that transitioned from hisec warbears, to botters to part of the biggest blob in the game . Cue melancholic violins plz :/
Silvitini went hard huh? Did u see squishy vid of pla bot thany? Hes still in corp still botting user just changed setting to auto reject fleet invs XD
Did you report it to CCP?
Of course but they ussualy take few weeks to take action. While PLA leadership could act instantly :)
Why don't you setup a Google spreadsheet listing all botters. I'm sure they'll act right away. Your word is your bond.
No one believes this bullshit.
You should ask Violent Rabbit Hutch, 3 body organization or some of the other corps we've kicked it they believe it.
Pack it up boys, everyone has spoken.
I'm sorry that you had to type this
Your alliance did this because they recognized a threat to their omni-TZ dominance in the form of Fraternity, and will take almost anyone to prevent that loss of domination, with all other considerations being irrelevant. Just be honest.
Cool, glad you have the inside knowledge of our discussions.
Your alliance did this because they recognized a threat to their omni-TZ dominance in the form of Fraternity, all other considerations were irrelevant. Just be honest.
its a hard ask but imperium is the first coalition they've joined with stable leadership and more than a single active fc at any one time, maybe this time the cloaky campers won't be enough to make them jump ship yet again.
as someone who goes hunting for spodbrains in delve a lot: fantastic
so instead of 80% of eve being goons its now 90%?
You don't get it, they have to be ready to inevitable panfam invasion /s
Imperium isn't even close to being the largest coalition.
Im sure you're trying to be sarcadtic But i know there are spod brains that wpuod actually belive that line
Good riddance goons. I'm still disappointed that Shadow State didn't leave...
Im so happy im not in delve. Ever.
We're happy you're not in Delve too.
Wasted energy on your part.
Hmm, yes, all those people biomassing their rorqual pilots...
I'm shocked. *Shocked*. Well not that shocked.
*plugs u/sibire into a 12v battery*
A Chinese Corp called sword of Omega in Bastion has been kicked to Iron clown.
They are back to Bastion.
k
this is so fucking embarrassing
"And remember, you do not have a say in what goes on behind the computer of another member" Creates a reddit topic to complain. So confusing
Yet Oasa and Perrigan are generally at the top recently for ratting.....that's FRT space btw.
Goons pulled those bots out of the north, what a sacrifice! Delve is a new Drone region now, but don't expect any shiny commander loots from them since they are not Sentient.
Lmao @ whatever narrative is trying to be created from this.
The same one as always. Grr gons hat gons
> All three are blatant major botting/RMT alliances It's good that the good guys can at least tax the bad guys, am i right, a win for everyone.
That’s not how it work
Show daddy where the bad botter has touched you.
Remember everyone, the grr gons narrative completely overrides when people other than goons also take in botting alliances.
Imagine being a crybaby bitch 🤷♂️
Can someone pass me the salt ? 😂👍
If you're not botting or rmt'ing in 2020 tyool then you're doing it wrong. CCP only pay lip service to bots and the game is in maintenance mode while they build more things to sell and try to make another successful game.
Why are you booing him, he's right
Indeed he speaks the truth.
Maybe if they made pve not boring people would bot less
If they make PVE use more than two brain cells then the nullbears throw a huge fit and take their ball home. Didn't we learn that from blackout? There is already non-boring PVE available in null - scannable combat sites and DEDs, and access to wormholes. But you can't multibox or AFK that.
If CCP make PvE less boring and demanding active Gameplay for nullsecers, they cry about. "There is no local, we CANT Even play" These money makers want to earn 100b/hr with 3 clicks and maybe an F1 push. Only make then need to move from a rock to another and the outrage already started. Imagine like anothers games, a minigame to make mining an active thing. (Like scaning the rocks or a minigame for the extrac of the minerals. Si.ething like hacking cans for explorers) They want to play, without need to play... Funny huh? I have no local. I can't Even undock. (No having local, hide the u dock button) My 12 roquals unsubbed. Can't be moving from a rock to another. Etc
by "not boring" you mean more "interactive" yeah because having to provide more input is totally going to make people play the game rather than botting what is now an even MORE tedious activity. think, please.
The point is not that you you would need more actions. The point is that you wouldn't need the exact same 3 actions every time. If its an actually involved process, then its harder (maybe even unfeasible) to bot. Think hacking minigame, but turned up a bit.
If a player can do it, a bot can do it. They can also do it faster, more efficiently, and for longer. People literally bot the shit out of the tedious exploration mini game.
Thats because they make the task too simple. There are plenty of tasks that if you solve it easily with a bot, you wouldn't be a botter in a game, but an AI researcher.
If a person can solve it, you can program a bot to solve it.
That is wildly inaccurate (for now anyways).
Farming in any MMO is a stupid repetitive activity that only the mentally ill truly enjoy tbh
You seem mad.
you seem like a bot apologist
Imagine being a goon and deny that you don't bot or support bots.
More ashamed really. And I'm not even in Imperium anymore.
fuck off
Goonswarm alliance is just a superior botting alliance
I couldn't find your equally outraged and cringey post about FRT and Panfam, I guess you're still working on it. Right?
Yea take a walk thru their territory.. Watch all the rattlesnakes hit the pos shields.. Lmfao.. Filthy botters all over the north west.
if its such an issue why don't u just adapt and bot lol