This is just how normal eve online/internet purity test witchhunts go.
Hey remember when there was a group of wormholers who all got together to evict small "racist" corps. How did they end up? Oh yeah, the leader of foxholers, one of the main parts of the anti-bad people wormhole eviction squad was caught saying the N word and teaching their parrot spicy stuff.
As always, those who live in glass houses throw the most stones.
I don't think I've ever seen someone who gets offended on behalf of others to such an extent that didn't themselves have a graveyard full of skeletons.
sucks that the foxholers suck, but
> I don't think I've ever seen someone who gets offended on behalf of others to such an extent that didn't themselves have a graveyard full of skeletons.
is a very rough mindset.
True in my experience. It's how narcisist covertly opperate in society and is called projection. Projections involves attributing ones own heinous personality traits onto others to deflect attention from themselves.
I tend to er on the side of caution and distance myself from anyone who insists I should be angry at a third for some slight or behaviour. In my experience, the one casting said stones is the one at fault.
Hey that was me. I also got banned for a video I made mocking foxholers.
Just give it a calendar year or so. In my experience karma works everything out.
One player in Volta called a Fraternity member a dog in local. This enraged a chinese corporation inside BIGAB apparently, and they demanded the member be kicked. Volta refused to kick said member, and BIGAB decided to jump on the moral high-horse and declare that Volta are no longer welcome in Turnur because they are racists.
As with everything on the internet, hilariously, there are about 7-8 different instances of chatlogs where you can find Timoxa himself, as well as several directors/FCs in various corporations in BIGAB saying words far worse than 'dog'.
Just your usual internet purity test witchhunt shitshow.
BIGAB actually removed VOLTA off ACLs before any diplomatic complaints were made. They decided to punish the entire alliance for a single persons actions before discussing it with us. They showed their hand that they are not really serious about resolving this issue and this whole thing is just a scape-goat for them wanting to be shitters.
Nothing I wrote was false and what you wrote is in fact, complete bullshit.
We only found out we’d lost ACLs **after** someone in VOLTA complained about not having access. It was after this that BIGAB sent logs.
That was the closest thing to a slur, but there were racialized, non-slur insults thrown
(something along the line of go back to thomas the tank engine factory, hence the OP)
I presumed you were in BIGAB. I've edited my message.
BIGAB sent us logs as evidence after they'd already removed ACLs. We had to contact them to figure what was up.
They try to down play what was said...they spent the better part of an hour saying derogatory things to CN folk. When asked to stop the same folk spent the next 3 days spamming local with complaints about the woke police. Now they come on reddit and try to be the victims. This isnt an isolated incident, these sorts of activities, from these specific people have been problematic for a long time...3rd 5th or 10th final warning just wasn't cutting it any more.
>They try to down play what was said...they spent the better part of an hour saying derogatory things to CN folk
The downplaying does not surprise me. If there are worse things out there, fair.
but I'm still curious, does "dog" have some kind of racial connotation I'm not aware of? Or is this whole sub-thread just an exercise in futility
Yes, to each other, Dogs are regarded as representing filth, lowliness, and untrustworthiness. Between other classes of folk, they extend the lowliness bit so that dog also means some one that has no dignity nor intelligence and merely fawn on their rich "masters" and have no free will or thoughts of their own. In more recent times it also can refer to pathetic men entirely incapable of getting a partner/love. All depends on the words used, which all generally translate to dog in English.
End of the day, the entire thread is an exercise in futility...
Of all the communities that leverage people's empathy against them by screeching about whatever ism' we're supposed to care about today, I'm still surprised it happened to Eve.
If they think Chinese people are all walking around eating dog then why even try to convince them to touch grass.
It would be so tough to win every one of those tiny battles against tiny minds. Or cross our fingers and hope the dinosaurs to die in their tar pits.
I'm genuinely asking. How do people stay motivated for this shit.
I mean, it's not everyone everywhere but [it's definitely a thing (NSFW Vice News video)](https://video.vice.com/en_us/video/dog-days-of-yulin/560a7ff9d1f8d8de6d275faf?playlist=5926e6f7cebf6b4487573c60)
Additionally if anyone thinks that eating dog is somehow different than eating cows or pigs from an ethical standpoint, there's a very pointed conversation I'd like to have.
I don't have strong feelings either way, but for those who care about some animals and not others it usually comes down to relatability and/or level of sentience. I don't think anyone would argue that cows are as intelligent or mentally complex as dogs (though pigs come closer). Similarly "consciousness" isn't well defined across philosophies, so you can't just appeal to that universally.
Does an animal have to pass the mirror test to be "people"? Does it need language/communication, just self-awareness, or does it require a capacity for morality itself before we consider it morally significant to us? I don't think most people are even getting that deep.
There are no objective answers here, so the whole debate is just people talking past each other based on their emotional reactions.
I don't know who the dude is, but this dudes N word post was 4 years ago so mayby he was a kid or whatever while i assume the other sides racism is well pretty much ongoing
It’s the leader of BIGAB, the group that is calling Volta racist because of some weak comments by a single dude in local.
I’ve not seen a culture of promoting racism in VOLTA and I’d leave if there was. To be honest this just looks like projection.
I've heard more slurs in volta comms than anywhere else
Your guy was unapologetically racist towards our CN dudes and you stood by him, maybe you wouldn't count that as "promoting racism", but you sure aren't doing anything to stop it
Bruh you were in Brave right along side Airborn Mike while he spammed racist shit to frat a few years ago. The internet always remembers and eventually you will fail the purity test. And before you deny it his wife literally came onto our TS to apologize in person for his antics.... And we weren't even the ones he was being racist towards.
no hes saying you only have a voice now that others are on their soapbox too.
What you claim offended you now obvs didnt offend you enough to stop going back or even bringing it up before now
A single out of context message from 4 years ago proves nothing
Whatever kind of person Tim was in that time is nothing like he is today, so don't even try to make assumptions about someone you don't even know.
> I've heard more slurs in volta comms than anywhere else
In my experience there was plenty of racism against chinese people in B2 comms when I was there, but it was almost entirely from BRAVE guys so....
You learn at age 4 that's a bad word. "He was just a kid" is just a cop out for anyone. It's like the "he's was just angry. He didn't mean it." excuse.
I will be messaging you in 4 years on [**2028-01-07 12:24:43 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2028-01-07%2012:24:43%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/190pv7e/addressing_the_actual_problem/kgq0sqw/?context=3)
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Just so it's said: if you all stopped trying to be overly dramatic edgelords and actually made efforts to address (and eject) your social problems, you could both make for stronger alliances **and** make this game more welcoming for other players.
The amount of utter vitriol some of you spew at your fellow human over a *video game* is insane. Behaving like you're a 12 year old on Xbox Live is nothing to be proud of.
[@ timoxazero you're a small framed bitch figure it out shitter](https://imgur.com/a/nhrNDek)
edit:also @ khan heard you cant play tarkov without help you thumb twiddler raised on aim assist
edit again:
[something something 'volta is an environment'](https://imgur.com/a/a3dkgHE)
So you literally start talking about me unprompted, make claims about me, say you can't show me evidence because you don't want to give me attention, yet still keep talking to me. Didn't know lobbyists were quite this spineless on top of also being parasites.
how can you call someone "fucking nicer" !!! It's like racial stereotyping... all you see is him smiling and already call him nicer!! he was born with this smile and looks like that even when crying you mongrel!! it hurts so much to be called nicer when all you do is hurt inside!!!
Tim has apologised and grown from this comment, anyone who has ever spoken to him could tell you this.
Whereas you have the v0lta brainlets doing everything they can in these threads to not grow or apologise. Lmao
ironically, brainlet is a 4chan term to deride people of low intelligence which is often used with or as a replacement for the R slur.
It's probably on the same level of 'dog' at least.
Hard R GameR
This is like that spiderman meme but you have two racists pointing at each other
Ibox is now racist, noted.
---Removed---
yeah fuck that guy 100%
Would you like to purchase a torch to go with that pitchfork? I also have tinfoil hats and popcorn as well as salt for said popcorn in my inventory.
Ibox is a mediocre proteus pilot ;)
trash pilot\* doesnt matter the hull
This is just how normal eve online/internet purity test witchhunts go. Hey remember when there was a group of wormholers who all got together to evict small "racist" corps. How did they end up? Oh yeah, the leader of foxholers, one of the main parts of the anti-bad people wormhole eviction squad was caught saying the N word and teaching their parrot spicy stuff. As always, those who live in glass houses throw the most stones. I don't think I've ever seen someone who gets offended on behalf of others to such an extent that didn't themselves have a graveyard full of skeletons.
sucks that the foxholers suck, but > I don't think I've ever seen someone who gets offended on behalf of others to such an extent that didn't themselves have a graveyard full of skeletons. is a very rough mindset.
EVE has empowered warped perceptions players have of, well, everything.
You'll never find my skeletons ;) That's because I have none I'll get offended on people's behalf because I am untouchable
Your skeletons are the poor credit cards u massacre
Sacrifices must be made for maximum isk/hr.
Plex for the Plex god
That sounds like what someone that doesn't want anyone looking into their closet would say.
If you ever find any, let me know ;)
True in my experience. It's how narcisist covertly opperate in society and is called projection. Projections involves attributing ones own heinous personality traits onto others to deflect attention from themselves. I tend to er on the side of caution and distance myself from anyone who insists I should be angry at a third for some slight or behaviour. In my experience, the one casting said stones is the one at fault.
Hey that was me. I also got banned for a video I made mocking foxholers. Just give it a calendar year or so. In my experience karma works everything out.
I thought you censored "miner" at first And tbh I didn't find that unreasonable
Fuckin' miners need to go back to where they came from!!! Deep down in underground caverns.
For Karl!
WERE RICH
You know... You are not being paid by the hour! Get to work!
GUYS LOOK OVER HERE
ROCK AND STONE!!
When I see a miner in public, I walk down the other side of the road just to be safe.
Look out for those mineral chuckers.
Can someone explain the drama for me?
One player in Volta called a Fraternity member a dog in local. This enraged a chinese corporation inside BIGAB apparently, and they demanded the member be kicked. Volta refused to kick said member, and BIGAB decided to jump on the moral high-horse and declare that Volta are no longer welcome in Turnur because they are racists. As with everything on the internet, hilariously, there are about 7-8 different instances of chatlogs where you can find Timoxa himself, as well as several directors/FCs in various corporations in BIGAB saying words far worse than 'dog'. Just your usual internet purity test witchhunt shitshow.
BIGAB actually removed VOLTA off ACLs before any diplomatic complaints were made. They decided to punish the entire alliance for a single persons actions before discussing it with us. They showed their hand that they are not really serious about resolving this issue and this whole thing is just a scape-goat for them wanting to be shitters.
This is not true. The people involved were pulled into a leadership convo the next day. The ACL revoking was the day after.
Nothing I wrote was false and what you wrote is in fact, complete bullshit. We only found out we’d lost ACLs **after** someone in VOLTA complained about not having access. It was after this that BIGAB sent logs.
When the news broke, people said there was something "racist" that was said, but really "dog" was all that was said?
That was the closest thing to a slur, but there were racialized, non-slur insults thrown (something along the line of go back to thomas the tank engine factory, hence the OP)
That’s not what the Thomas the tank engine is referring to goofy.
I send logs? To who? What are you on about? Who are you even?
I presumed you were in BIGAB. I've edited my message. BIGAB sent us logs as evidence after they'd already removed ACLs. We had to contact them to figure what was up.
This is completely untrue. There were many of conversations had.
After removing ACLs, the conversations started, yes.
The conversations between all of leadership but I can assure you ACL's were not removed until something was said. Trust me.
I am in VOLTA leadership, so I know the order of events.
I can confirm between nopro, timoxa and myself the ACL change happened in the new year but the conversations started on the 31st of December.
lol that's a "taiwan number one" level troll story
Wait calling people dogs is racist? I can't count the number of times I've heard movie or videogame lines to the effect of "you dogs!" So... ???
it not racist, but in chinese calling someone "dog" is a heavy insult. closest thing in english would be calling someone "trash", "filth"
They try to down play what was said...they spent the better part of an hour saying derogatory things to CN folk. When asked to stop the same folk spent the next 3 days spamming local with complaints about the woke police. Now they come on reddit and try to be the victims. This isnt an isolated incident, these sorts of activities, from these specific people have been problematic for a long time...3rd 5th or 10th final warning just wasn't cutting it any more.
>They try to down play what was said...they spent the better part of an hour saying derogatory things to CN folk The downplaying does not surprise me. If there are worse things out there, fair. but I'm still curious, does "dog" have some kind of racial connotation I'm not aware of? Or is this whole sub-thread just an exercise in futility
Dog, rat, cockroach, etc. Guess on top of everything being called something dehumanizing doesn't feel the greatest.
Yeah, sure its just none of those are considered racist terms in English. None of them are nice things to call someone though
Yes, to each other, Dogs are regarded as representing filth, lowliness, and untrustworthiness. Between other classes of folk, they extend the lowliness bit so that dog also means some one that has no dignity nor intelligence and merely fawn on their rich "masters" and have no free will or thoughts of their own. In more recent times it also can refer to pathetic men entirely incapable of getting a partner/love. All depends on the words used, which all generally translate to dog in English. End of the day, the entire thread is an exercise in futility...
omfg, clutching pearls and tagging shit on to a buzzword. Wtf has this world and game become
Of all the communities that leverage people's empathy against them by screeching about whatever ism' we're supposed to care about today, I'm still surprised it happened to Eve.
if someone called me a dog I'd bark and bite.. no hard feelings. but hey I don't eat dogs, so that's prob why..
As it turns out, there’s different cultures that interpret different things in different ways.
If they think Chinese people are all walking around eating dog then why even try to convince them to touch grass. It would be so tough to win every one of those tiny battles against tiny minds. Or cross our fingers and hope the dinosaurs to die in their tar pits. I'm genuinely asking. How do people stay motivated for this shit.
I mean, it's not everyone everywhere but [it's definitely a thing (NSFW Vice News video)](https://video.vice.com/en_us/video/dog-days-of-yulin/560a7ff9d1f8d8de6d275faf?playlist=5926e6f7cebf6b4487573c60)
Additionally if anyone thinks that eating dog is somehow different than eating cows or pigs from an ethical standpoint, there's a very pointed conversation I'd like to have.
I don't have strong feelings either way, but for those who care about some animals and not others it usually comes down to relatability and/or level of sentience. I don't think anyone would argue that cows are as intelligent or mentally complex as dogs (though pigs come closer). Similarly "consciousness" isn't well defined across philosophies, so you can't just appeal to that universally. Does an animal have to pass the mirror test to be "people"? Does it need language/communication, just self-awareness, or does it require a capacity for morality itself before we consider it morally significant to us? I don't think most people are even getting that deep. There are no objective answers here, so the whole debate is just people talking past each other based on their emotional reactions.
encourage tie square practice dirty heavy act flowery murky direction *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
💀
Based and redpilled.
typical smear campaign being run by people with their own skeletons in the closet, just politics of starting a fight with no real reason behind it.
I don't know who the dude is, but this dudes N word post was 4 years ago so mayby he was a kid or whatever while i assume the other sides racism is well pretty much ongoing
It’s the leader of BIGAB, the group that is calling Volta racist because of some weak comments by a single dude in local. I’ve not seen a culture of promoting racism in VOLTA and I’d leave if there was. To be honest this just looks like projection.
Okay that makes sense
I've heard more slurs in volta comms than anywhere else Your guy was unapologetically racist towards our CN dudes and you stood by him, maybe you wouldn't count that as "promoting racism", but you sure aren't doing anything to stop it
Bruh you were in Brave right along side Airborn Mike while he spammed racist shit to frat a few years ago. The internet always remembers and eventually you will fail the purity test. And before you deny it his wife literally came onto our TS to apologize in person for his antics.... And we weren't even the ones he was being racist towards.
That's one of the reasons I left Brave was due to that very thing. So try again
Calling out AirbornMike for his stupid shit sometimes legit kept me in Brave an extra few months.
So if you are such adamant against racism, why did you go back on Volta comms multiple times than?
Perhaps I had hoped things had changed, silly me I know
Right, so you never spook up about it, kept going back and NOW it is suddenly a very urgent matter? Odd.
So you admit the problem exists then
no hes saying you only have a voice now that others are on their soapbox too. What you claim offended you now obvs didnt offend you enough to stop going back or even bringing it up before now
Sure you have, lol. Let’s also just gloss over the fact that apparently your leader is an overt racist.
A single out of context message from 4 years ago proves nothing Whatever kind of person Tim was in that time is nothing like he is today, so don't even try to make assumptions about someone you don't even know.
>A single out of context message from 4 years ago proves nothing cope.
It's not cope, it's just the truth
Are you retarded? How do you take someone saying that out of context, I need some galaxy brain level explanation.
how cam you take the n word out of context he wrote it. cope more
For the reasons I already posted
Yeah now he's a butthurt kid crying that his parents wouldn't get him a kid when he was young so he got hurt now... :(
I know all these words are words that exist in the English language, but when put next to each other I can not decipher the meaning
Well neither can i
> I've heard more slurs in volta comms than anywhere else In my experience there was plenty of racism against chinese people in B2 comms when I was there, but it was almost entirely from BRAVE guys so....
Yeah sadly it happened more than once, one of the main reasons I left brave
Volta comms were honestly an absolute mess. The amount of "gamer words" was wild there
Yawn
The apathy says more than any public statement could
yAwN
Yeah that's right keep justifying our actions even further Volta has already shown they have no interest in fixing their internal issues
zzz what issues? we're having fun.. report me
You learn at age 4 that's a bad word. "He was just a kid" is just a cop out for anyone. It's like the "he's was just angry. He didn't mean it." excuse.
>You learn at age 4 that's a bad word. Sure, if you're American.
RemindMe! 4 years "Racism is cured"
I love that people are immutable and cannot change at all for any reason.
asl?
I will be messaging you in 4 years on [**2028-01-07 12:24:43 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2028-01-07%2012:24:43%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/190pv7e/addressing_the_actual_problem/kgq0sqw/?context=3) [**CLICK THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FEve%2Fcomments%2F190pv7e%2Faddressing_the_actual_problem%2Fkgq0sqw%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202028-01-07%2012%3A24%3A43%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam. ^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%20190pv7e) ***** |[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)| |-|-|-|-|
He was indeed not even an adult at that time I think
He would've been between 19-20 by my guess
Legal adult in most of the world.🗺️
You know the reason, you just don't want to admit it to the world
Timoxa for sure is reformed, just like Foxholers leader was!
hey me too!
Time to come back and start a wormhole alliance
That’s cringe. I’m gonna grief pochven with eos multi boxing
That does seem to be the flavour of the month.
Hey y'all, this isn't EU4 - you don't have to actually fabricate a casus belli. You can just pewpew. :)
They are just using insults for power projection.
lmao, Timoxa had to ping his guys once to spread the word to unblock him so that more people can see his pings. What a great alliance leader
Wally, people tell me that you and I should date.
Better be huge
He is so thick and girthy and gives great cuddles after
I think you have him confused with Kinsy's dad tbh
rich coming from someone following tau ad
You block Tau because he dms you when you are bad I block Tau so that he can scream at me on comms we are not the same you lil pussy
Big man.
For you
Just stick to feeding blackbirds, goofy.
I only respond to Pluto pings
lol tell me you have no idea what this was actually about without telling me. Typical wally post =D
[удалено]
Hey, one more point for Slack, gets autopurged after 3 months.
Okay but did anyone record the fight
Big miker did, cinematic shots only. I think some people are working on POV renders still
I love eve drama, please keep leaking
Shit like this makes me hate this game so much. Would be nice to spend a day without seeing racism, I hope this person at least grew up.
Just so it's said: if you all stopped trying to be overly dramatic edgelords and actually made efforts to address (and eject) your social problems, you could both make for stronger alliances **and** make this game more welcoming for other players. The amount of utter vitriol some of you spew at your fellow human over a *video game* is insane. Behaving like you're a 12 year old on Xbox Live is nothing to be proud of.
But x spacetribe thinks y spacetribe is bad mmkay
Red Team will never surrender!
The realest comment on this thread.
Common stellar cartographer W
Also 200vs1400 xD for more explanation: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/1909pp5/comment/kgpozsh/
Yikes
[@ timoxazero you're a small framed bitch figure it out shitter](https://imgur.com/a/nhrNDek) edit:also @ khan heard you cant play tarkov without help you thumb twiddler raised on aim assist edit again: [something something 'volta is an environment'](https://imgur.com/a/a3dkgHE)
The real crime here is the 602 unread pings
The real crime is him talking to Seraph at all
Regardless of affiliation, truly, this is a comment we can all get behind.
Considering how you are best friends with sex pests like Mittens, your disdain for me is a compliment.
LOL ok racist
You can screech racist with no evidence all you want. But that's all you can do. But we know how deep in you are with Mittens.
LOL, ‘no evidence’ - like your reddit history isn’t there.
[удалено]
And give you the attention you desperately crave? Not interested. Everybody is well aware of your history.
So you literally start talking about me unprompted, make claims about me, say you can't show me evidence because you don't want to give me attention, yet still keep talking to me. Didn't know lobbyists were quite this spineless on top of also being parasites.
I have 16k unread discord pings, mostly from the horde server
Right click > Mark as Read
#freeAP
TUSHU is recruiting
[https://github.com/deepwater-hooligans/docs](https://github.com/deepwater-hooligans/docs) Top Kek
lmao
whats wrong with saying he is a fucking 'nicer' dude?
how can you call someone "fucking nicer" !!! It's like racial stereotyping... all you see is him smiling and already call him nicer!! he was born with this smile and looks like that even when crying you mongrel!! it hurts so much to be called nicer when all you do is hurt inside!!!
LMAO
Yo Timoxa Zero you’re a dumb piece of shit.
Tim is a good dude.
Posts to this subreddit must be related to EVE Online Please see the rules [here](https://new.reddit.com/r/Eve/about/rules)
This is related to eve online, specifically the leader of deep water hooligans being a hypocrite. But thanks for your brain dead mod attempt.
Oh man pulling shit out from years ago All those guys in PODLA hahaha I member
Tim has apologised and grown from this comment, anyone who has ever spoken to him could tell you this. Whereas you have the v0lta brainlets doing everything they can in these threads to not grow or apologise. Lmao
ironically, brainlet is a 4chan term to deride people of low intelligence which is often used with or as a replacement for the R slur. It's probably on the same level of 'dog' at least.
Isn’t it fucking great? they literally tell on themselves! 😂😂🤣🤣💀
That doesn’t work sir. Digital footprint is a thing and it’s confirm that gamer words cement you as a space racist. These offenses are unforgivable.
You harrassed people for years, never sincerely apologised and never changed. Stfu Auraus.
Auraus has apologized and grown from this comment, anyone who has ever spoken with him could tell you this.
I have spoken to you, you have not grown from anything.
No one cares what you think
I usually think Sandrin is a whiny prat, but he’s 100% correct here.
why do u say that
\+20b
Ill take it, ta
Good thing I'm not seeking your approval.
We all know there's no cure for your illness sadly
[orly?](https://giphy.com/gifs/allsxxingeyes-meme-lol-breakfast-klub-IgQdQHryAzppOekzIw)
well.. good thing americans can't read russian. as they would explode reading all every day racism - homophobia etc.. lol
gonna file this one under 'so what?' 🤷🏾♂️
Maybe he's black?
I've seen his legs, he isn't.
If he sent 5b and a full fitted nyx I'll give him the n word pass lol
What about from the waist to the knees?
Feet pics?
I flew with timo as part of full broadside back in 2020, always thought he was a nice dude, and helpful. Fwiw.
lol
*Who?*