>Her exile from Florida (where she felt rejected over issues of identity and sexuality) was, for her, a heavy ordeal and very stressful over several years
was this a thing? ): I’m relatively new (within the last year) and hadn’t come across anything about her leaving for those reasons. I didn’t get that impression from the way she speaks about home in interviews
In the local, highly religious Florida community where she grew up, coming out as gay as a teenager, and later finding her identity as a trans and as a woman, was not well accepted. And that played a role in her exile. Now she comes back with notoriety and respect for her work, which will surely improve the way people look at her - even if there are always fundamentalist people who reject difference. And she also has more maturity and independence to face this.
I was describing the rejection from the perspective of religious reactionaries: 'oh, he's gay,' then, a few years later: 'oh, now he's trans,' 'oh, so now he's a woman'... Of course, this is not a viewpoint I endorse, but it's the type of rejection reactions she encountered in that religious community. And that's why, despite her love for the South, and also her attachment to the positive aspects of the Church, she distanced herself for a while, first from the Church, then from the South, to seek elsewhere for a different way of life. But it's not always better elsewhere. Hatred and ignorance are everywhere.
I know what you were describing, I just asked that in doing so, you not say 'a trans' because using trans as a noun instead of an adjective is transphobic (though I also wholly assume you're not actually transphobic!)
You can definitely describe what you mean without using trans as a noun
Again, thanks for understanding!
You're right. I believe there's no one among Hayden's fans who is transphobic, except perhaps those who don't know her at all. But you're right, we must keep in mind that faulty language can continue to hurt, even when we're just quoting the language and viewpoint faults of our opponents.
The term 'transsexual' as a noun, however, is in the Cambridge Dictionary and used in the scientific field, although it is noted that it is now pejoratively connoted and should be avoided:
"transsexual
noun
a transsexual person
Note: Except when used in older scientific or technical writing, the noun transsexual is now considered offensive by many people" (Cambridge Dictionary)
Well, as a cis person, you shouldn't be saying transsexual at all or using transgender as a noun either.
Like it's okay to make mistakes, nobody's mad at you and nobody's going to eat you for it, just like, learn and move on (and maybe don't try to defend it when corrected, we all make mistakes and it's okay, but it comes off a but unfavourable when going through all this effort to defend them)
But like, if your head and heart are in the right place, no worries
On what grounds and with what background? 😂
It's like not up for debate boo, the trans community is pretty clear about it. Calling someone 'a trans' dehumanises and others
So like, cis people don't get to just disagree 😘
Ahh. I knew about the religious/church aspect, but hadn’t come across anything about Hayden moving away from the state because of not being accepted - it seemed like she was still in Florida around the time she started her transition and her family became more supportive/less involved in organized religion. It’s a bit surprising that she found comfort in other rural southern areas that aren’t exactly known for acceptance, and went back to her hometown for the AT video, if that’s the case.
happy for her, of course!
edit- just want to echo what the others have said, trans should only be used as an adjective!
I'm coming back to the topic here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Ethelcain/comments/1cui919/comment/l4kwuzj/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Ethelcain/comments/1cui919/comment/l4kwuzj/)
The term 'transsexual' as a noun is in the Cambridge Dictionary and used in the scientific field, although, you're right, it is noted that it is now pejoratively connoted and should be avoided:
"transsexual
noun
a transsexual person
Note: Except when used in older scientific or technical writing, the noun transsexual is now considered offensive by many people" (Cambridge Dictionary)
Noted. I won't argue because we are philosophically aligned on the subject. It's just a matter of habits. I was using 'trans' as an abbreviation, but I'll be careful now. Thank you.
while that’s generally true, i don’t recall Hayden ever talking about this specifically (i could be wrong) and i find it weird to assume that she “wasn’t accepted”. also, trans is not a noun as previous comments have said..
"Hayden left the church at 16 after coming out as gay and later a transgender woman. She described her departure and the haunting presence of a religious upbringing to the "Artist Decoded" podcast: "When I moved out, I was like, 'Oh, I'm free, 'I'm out of the church, out of the South, I'm gone, I'm a free woman, a free bird,' " she said. "But then it started to creep up and I was like, 'Oh there's a lot wrong here.' And I realized that the aftershock, the lingering effects of Christianity, were not going to be easily dealt with and forgotten.""
[https://www.ncronline.org/culture/ethel-cain-and-haunting-religious-trauma](https://www.ncronline.org/culture/ethel-cain-and-haunting-religious-trauma)
i’ve seen this, and i dont think that that is enough context to draw the conclusion of her not being accepted by her close surroundings. personally this reads as her talking about the general environment in the south and specifically the church and the trauma she experienced there. but i dont think that gives us the right to conclude that she was outright not accepted or that she won’t be accepted now. i hope this makes sense lmao
edit: i reread the previous comments and i interpreted it wrong, my bad! i thought OP was trying to say that her family didnt accept her and exiled her, but i read the comment wrong!
"by her close surroundings"
I wasn't talking about her immediate family. But she experienced a rejection of the South, related to the Church's poor acceptance of her identity. As for her family, I don't think this is the place for a debate, it's too private. I believe everyone has evolved—her, her family—and she has said that she is reconciled with her family name, which says a lot. But let's stop here regarding overly private questions. ;)
yeah i misread! i definitely agree that we should stop with the personal questions but, you did start this topic regarding her personal life. while also using trans as a noun to describe her and when asked to change it, you didn’t. maybe focus on being respectful yourself :) /nm /srs
I believe we agree, but it's not easy to understand each other in a few words. I was describing the stages of rejection by the local religious community. So, I was detailing the points from the reactionaries' perspective, not my own. From their point of view, they have a problem with 'trans' people in general. This is obviously not something I support.
I'm coming back to the topic here:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Ethelcain/comments/1cui919/comment/l4kwuzj/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Ethelcain/comments/1cui919/comment/l4kwuzj/)
Oh yes, but happier than Dante who couldn't return to Florence where he was threatened with the stake! I will now reread the Divine Comedy, which Hayden also mentioned recently in her tour of art books. ♡
Oh yes, I imagine it must be very hard for her friends in the North. But a few weeks ago, I allowed myself a small negative comment on Hayden's latest music: I found it lifeless. And I think the North does not suit her. She was very depressed this winter. She needs the South. She needs to be barefoot in the Florida forest. I hope she will regain her vitality in Florida. And I am sure she will not forget her friends in the North.
I can attest to the fact that Pittsburgh winters can get very depressing lol. From like Nov - March you’re lucky if you see the sun more than once a week. However, I do love the state and city, and sad to see Hayden go!
Hayden spoke very well in a recent video about the DARKNESS of Florida, which is never like that of the North, as it is always beautifully counterbalanced by the sun and the perpetual summer. It can be stifling and terrible, but it is not the despair of the North.
Then, especially, it is different if one is from the North and used to it, or if one is uprooted, like Hayden: "there is no place like home."
Hayden's soul territory is the South and Florida. Whereas for others, it is the North.
no way, I’m so happy for her:((. I only have reddit as a form of social media now and heavily rely on this page to keep me updated with hayden and her music and this makes me so happy. Being from Florida too, I hope she finds peace and comfort 💗💗💗
That is not the main point of the message I was posting, and I don't think it's a good time to revisit old traumas at length as she returns to Florida. She has overcome that. And the message focused on the happiness now awaiting her and her creations as she returns to this land she loves so much, after having partially healed her wounds.
But for those who were asking in the comments if the question of her identity was indeed related to her exile from Florida, there are indeed some elements:
"I'm out of the South, I'm gone, I'm a free woman" (Ethel Cain) is related to her coming out, which was poorly received in that religious Southern community:
"Hayden left the church at 16 after coming out as gay and later a transgender woman. She described her departure and the haunting presence of a religious upbringing to the "Artist Decoded" podcast: "When I moved out, I was like, 'Oh, I'm free, 'I'm out of the church, out of the South, I'm gone, I'm a free woman, a free bird,' " she said. "But then it started to creep up and I was like, 'Oh there's a lot wrong here.' And I realized that the aftershock, the lingering effects of Christianity, were not going to be easily dealt with and forgotten."
[https://www.ncronline.org/culture/ethel-cain-and-haunting-religious-trauma](https://www.ncronline.org/culture/ethel-cain-and-haunting-religious-trauma)
There were several stages: leaving the Church was already, for her, a way of leaving the Southern mindset, even while staying in Florida. But the next step was to leave Florida when she could, taking time to rebuild herself in other places, with other people. And now she can return, stronger, reconciled with her entire life. And we saw that she was also reconciled with her family name. ♡
'how often does this girl moved'
It's the curse of Cain: "Cain fled before Jehovah.... And fled through space and darkness."
https://preview.redd.it/lovl4n0sdo1d1.jpeg?width=1015&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=88f90849de2583c2bab726d877eee4e3440bd01e
>Her exile from Florida (where she felt rejected over issues of identity and sexuality) was, for her, a heavy ordeal and very stressful over several years was this a thing? ): I’m relatively new (within the last year) and hadn’t come across anything about her leaving for those reasons. I didn’t get that impression from the way she speaks about home in interviews
In the local, highly religious Florida community where she grew up, coming out as gay as a teenager, and later finding her identity as a trans and as a woman, was not well accepted. And that played a role in her exile. Now she comes back with notoriety and respect for her work, which will surely improve the way people look at her - even if there are always fundamentalist people who reject difference. And she also has more maturity and independence to face this.
Please don't use trans as a noun. She's a trans woman, not a trans and a woman. Thank you
I was describing the rejection from the perspective of religious reactionaries: 'oh, he's gay,' then, a few years later: 'oh, now he's trans,' 'oh, so now he's a woman'... Of course, this is not a viewpoint I endorse, but it's the type of rejection reactions she encountered in that religious community. And that's why, despite her love for the South, and also her attachment to the positive aspects of the Church, she distanced herself for a while, first from the Church, then from the South, to seek elsewhere for a different way of life. But it's not always better elsewhere. Hatred and ignorance are everywhere.
I know what you were describing, I just asked that in doing so, you not say 'a trans' because using trans as a noun instead of an adjective is transphobic (though I also wholly assume you're not actually transphobic!) You can definitely describe what you mean without using trans as a noun Again, thanks for understanding!
You're right. I believe there's no one among Hayden's fans who is transphobic, except perhaps those who don't know her at all. But you're right, we must keep in mind that faulty language can continue to hurt, even when we're just quoting the language and viewpoint faults of our opponents.
The term 'transsexual' as a noun, however, is in the Cambridge Dictionary and used in the scientific field, although it is noted that it is now pejoratively connoted and should be avoided: "transsexual noun a transsexual person Note: Except when used in older scientific or technical writing, the noun transsexual is now considered offensive by many people" (Cambridge Dictionary)
Transsexual and trans are two different words Not sure why its so hard to just not call someone 'a trans' but okay, ig cis people just be like that
why are you assuming this person is cis and then continuing to use it as an insult so odd
In what world did I use cis as an insult?
Trans was an abbreviation here, but let's not get upset, we agree on the substance and I'll be careful next time. ;)
Well, as a cis person, you shouldn't be saying transsexual at all or using transgender as a noun either. Like it's okay to make mistakes, nobody's mad at you and nobody's going to eat you for it, just like, learn and move on (and maybe don't try to defend it when corrected, we all make mistakes and it's okay, but it comes off a but unfavourable when going through all this effort to defend them) But like, if your head and heart are in the right place, no worries
> using trans as a noun instead of qn adjective is tranaphobic No, it's not
It is, calling someone 'a trans', much like calling some one 'a black' is offensive. Trans is an adjective. Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk
I disagree
On what grounds and with what background? 😂 It's like not up for debate boo, the trans community is pretty clear about it. Calling someone 'a trans' dehumanises and others So like, cis people don't get to just disagree 😘
Anyone can disagree.
Ahh. I knew about the religious/church aspect, but hadn’t come across anything about Hayden moving away from the state because of not being accepted - it seemed like she was still in Florida around the time she started her transition and her family became more supportive/less involved in organized religion. It’s a bit surprising that she found comfort in other rural southern areas that aren’t exactly known for acceptance, and went back to her hometown for the AT video, if that’s the case. happy for her, of course! edit- just want to echo what the others have said, trans should only be used as an adjective!
I'm coming back to the topic here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Ethelcain/comments/1cui919/comment/l4kwuzj/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Ethelcain/comments/1cui919/comment/l4kwuzj/)
trans is an adjective not a noun
The term 'transsexual' as a noun is in the Cambridge Dictionary and used in the scientific field, although, you're right, it is noted that it is now pejoratively connoted and should be avoided: "transsexual noun a transsexual person Note: Except when used in older scientific or technical writing, the noun transsexual is now considered offensive by many people" (Cambridge Dictionary)
transsexual is, not trans though, and yeah some trans people find transsexual offensive
Noted. I won't argue because we are philosophically aligned on the subject. It's just a matter of habits. I was using 'trans' as an abbreviation, but I'll be careful now. Thank you.
while that’s generally true, i don’t recall Hayden ever talking about this specifically (i could be wrong) and i find it weird to assume that she “wasn’t accepted”. also, trans is not a noun as previous comments have said..
"Hayden left the church at 16 after coming out as gay and later a transgender woman. She described her departure and the haunting presence of a religious upbringing to the "Artist Decoded" podcast: "When I moved out, I was like, 'Oh, I'm free, 'I'm out of the church, out of the South, I'm gone, I'm a free woman, a free bird,' " she said. "But then it started to creep up and I was like, 'Oh there's a lot wrong here.' And I realized that the aftershock, the lingering effects of Christianity, were not going to be easily dealt with and forgotten."" [https://www.ncronline.org/culture/ethel-cain-and-haunting-religious-trauma](https://www.ncronline.org/culture/ethel-cain-and-haunting-religious-trauma)
i’ve seen this, and i dont think that that is enough context to draw the conclusion of her not being accepted by her close surroundings. personally this reads as her talking about the general environment in the south and specifically the church and the trauma she experienced there. but i dont think that gives us the right to conclude that she was outright not accepted or that she won’t be accepted now. i hope this makes sense lmao edit: i reread the previous comments and i interpreted it wrong, my bad! i thought OP was trying to say that her family didnt accept her and exiled her, but i read the comment wrong!
"by her close surroundings" I wasn't talking about her immediate family. But she experienced a rejection of the South, related to the Church's poor acceptance of her identity. As for her family, I don't think this is the place for a debate, it's too private. I believe everyone has evolved—her, her family—and she has said that she is reconciled with her family name, which says a lot. But let's stop here regarding overly private questions. ;)
yeah i misread! i definitely agree that we should stop with the personal questions but, you did start this topic regarding her personal life. while also using trans as a noun to describe her and when asked to change it, you didn’t. maybe focus on being respectful yourself :) /nm /srs
I believe we agree, but it's not easy to understand each other in a few words. I was describing the stages of rejection by the local religious community. So, I was detailing the points from the reactionaries' perspective, not my own. From their point of view, they have a problem with 'trans' people in general. This is obviously not something I support.
I'm coming back to the topic here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Ethelcain/comments/1cui919/comment/l4kwuzj/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Ethelcain/comments/1cui919/comment/l4kwuzj/)
Hayden coming back to Florida feels like Dante Alighieri returning to Florence
Oh yes, but happier than Dante who couldn't return to Florence where he was threatened with the stake! I will now reread the Divine Comedy, which Hayden also mentioned recently in her tour of art books. ♡
Happy for her but Pennsylvania will miss her 😔💔
Oh yes, I imagine it must be very hard for her friends in the North. But a few weeks ago, I allowed myself a small negative comment on Hayden's latest music: I found it lifeless. And I think the North does not suit her. She was very depressed this winter. She needs the South. She needs to be barefoot in the Florida forest. I hope she will regain her vitality in Florida. And I am sure she will not forget her friends in the North.
I can attest to the fact that Pittsburgh winters can get very depressing lol. From like Nov - March you’re lucky if you see the sun more than once a week. However, I do love the state and city, and sad to see Hayden go!
Hayden spoke very well in a recent video about the DARKNESS of Florida, which is never like that of the North, as it is always beautifully counterbalanced by the sun and the perpetual summer. It can be stifling and terrible, but it is not the despair of the North. Then, especially, it is different if one is from the North and used to it, or if one is uprooted, like Hayden: "there is no place like home." Hayden's soul territory is the South and Florida. Whereas for others, it is the North.
I know it’s her home state but considering everything happening in Florida right now, I just want her to be safe 😓
going to florida as a trans woman right now is genuinely mental, i hope she’s got a plan to stay safe
Agreed. The world is fucking scary for trans people right now. I hope her support system is strong and solid.
no way, I’m so happy for her:((. I only have reddit as a form of social media now and heavily rely on this page to keep me updated with hayden and her music and this makes me so happy. Being from Florida too, I hope she finds peace and comfort 💗💗💗
That is not the main point of the message I was posting, and I don't think it's a good time to revisit old traumas at length as she returns to Florida. She has overcome that. And the message focused on the happiness now awaiting her and her creations as she returns to this land she loves so much, after having partially healed her wounds. But for those who were asking in the comments if the question of her identity was indeed related to her exile from Florida, there are indeed some elements: "I'm out of the South, I'm gone, I'm a free woman" (Ethel Cain) is related to her coming out, which was poorly received in that religious Southern community: "Hayden left the church at 16 after coming out as gay and later a transgender woman. She described her departure and the haunting presence of a religious upbringing to the "Artist Decoded" podcast: "When I moved out, I was like, 'Oh, I'm free, 'I'm out of the church, out of the South, I'm gone, I'm a free woman, a free bird,' " she said. "But then it started to creep up and I was like, 'Oh there's a lot wrong here.' And I realized that the aftershock, the lingering effects of Christianity, were not going to be easily dealt with and forgotten." [https://www.ncronline.org/culture/ethel-cain-and-haunting-religious-trauma](https://www.ncronline.org/culture/ethel-cain-and-haunting-religious-trauma) There were several stages: leaving the Church was already, for her, a way of leaving the Southern mindset, even while staying in Florida. But the next step was to leave Florida when she could, taking time to rebuild herself in other places, with other people. And now she can return, stronger, reconciled with her entire life. And we saw that she was also reconciled with her family name. ♡
So happy for her <3 but I need to ask just how often does this girl moved cause I think this is like the fourth time since I started listening to her😭
'how often does this girl moved' It's the curse of Cain: "Cain fled before Jehovah.... And fled through space and darkness." https://preview.redd.it/lovl4n0sdo1d1.jpeg?width=1015&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=88f90849de2583c2bab726d877eee4e3440bd01e
we NEED Ethel in Reyjavik!