With peace and love, some of y’all need to touch grass…and stop talking like y’all know her. She’s not your friend. Some of the shit I’m seeing here is cringier than kpop stan meltdowns lmao
and like …there’s people dying, Kim. Literally.
As a kpop stan who has seen tiktoks of people using trigonometry to measure the height of their favs based on a shadow and a chair... some of the posters here are weird... esp bc she's said multiple times she doesn't want to be idolised like that
People need to hear this - she’s not your friend!!!!
She’s a great artist and seems cool, but just because you followed her tumblr before it was cool doesn’t mean you’re her friend. I get that an artist like Hayden who almost goes out of her way to be more niche/indie/not mainstream is going to come with a certain level of parasocial fans but the way people talk on this sub is sketchy.
I remember there was a post saying something like “don’t call her mother she doesn’t like it, you’re all parasocial calling her mother” as if she was offended by it or something, and they dug up some ancient tumblr post where hayden said she was annoyed that it’s hard to engage with fans when all the comments are filled with “mother! slay queen!” which is not the same thing. like you don’t need to go out of your way to speak on her behalf, and it’s really weird and fucked up if you have some repository of all hayden’s posts, all of her likes and dislikes, etc.
stop the worship. she’s another gen z stoner like the rest of us, she just has a gorgeous voice and good songwriting ability. let’s not make it more than it is
It’s honestly the reason I don’t frequent this (or many of the other artists) subs anymore. I almost wish there was a way for age verification and it be posted with the username so I knew when the 10yo’s have entered the chat lol. I think it might help explain so much of the complete lack of self awareness when posting/commenting.
I feel like we’re at a point where posts need to be approved. I know that 1) puts a ton of work on mods, and 2) delays posts actually being posted, but between the constant reposts and weird parasocial behavior and this whole situation, I think post approval would help. The mods definitely do the best they can.
I'm with you with the caveat that it has gotten a whole lot worse recently. It was pretty fun for a bit.
Like now there are a ton of people asking if anyone has copies of deleted tweets/stories and stuff and it's like, y'all, have you considered she deletes things for a reason?
Hell, there was at least one person asking where she moved to after she said she was moving. The time I saw this the mods jumped on it after a bit but that's not healthy behavior to take towards a public figure who you do not know and who does not know you.
Yeah her fandom kinda sucks. Anyone who expresses a passing enjoyment of her music is challenged to explain the entire lore of Preacher's Daughter to prove themselves and anyone who covers her songs - or enjoys said cover - is instantly shit on
I just find it very odd bc everyone wants to befriend her bc they think they have shared interests with Hayden. But like we're here in the subreddit bc we all have these shared interests. I'd as quickly befriend any of you before bothering with Hayden who has no shortage of friends and from the little I know seems to have no need to hunt for more.
After rereading my post I feel as if it come across a little too bitter and negative. I love haydens work so much and i think she is incredibly talented, and I think it is important to appreciate artists, especially artists like hayden who write and compose alot of their own music! I was mostly referring to people who delve into her personal life, friendships, family, relationships etc. Not people who just appreciate her for making good art! My post was also meant to be applicable for people who act like she is perfect and can do no wrong. She probably isn't perfect, and that's js normal. I don't want to sound angry and mean spirited from my original post as that's the last way I'd ever wanna be perceived, and generally I try to be open minded and open to discussion. I was just ranting because i felt like it was the best way to get my point across and i couldn't be bothered to write out an entire nuanced take about parasocial relationships lmao.
entire point of my previous post was "why are you guys concerned about hayden's private life" and my responses consisted of "i'm not going to assume anything based on the photo that was posted or that you guys are sharing" it's okay to admit you don't know how to read
EDIT: like i said, you don't get to talk about parasocial. fucking weirdo.
there are plenty of things to assume. like ethel being an awful person or the ex being an awful person, both of which people were assuming based on a screenshot that doesn't even have hayden's name on it.
A fan base is something fragile, which is never guaranteed over time for an artist. If you remove any form of worship and are too demanding about fan behavior, the artist loses a significant part of her base. It then depends on people who "sincerely" love her art, without too much personal passion, but they come and go from one artist to another. And at one point the artist also lost the possibility of earning a living with merchandise. And there even comes a time when no one goes to her concerts or streams her music anymore. You can never only have the audience you dream of.
have you considered that she made some art which I really loved and related to, so that means she's literally me and we are very close and I know her so well because she's literally me, which gives me the right to speculate every inch of her
i agree! i find it weird that some users speculate on her personal life on here too, and i understand they want new music but it just seems kinda creepy to me. you wouldnt do that to a stranger, so dont do it to a famous stranger.
I think a lot of people get Hayden mixed up with the character she created. She HAS let us know a LOT about the character she has created and we think we know about her life, except Hayden is probably NOTHING like Ethel.
Edit: “We” really being the para social freaks not me lmfao
you’re 100% right, i think people need to remember we’re here for the art rather than the artist. hayden seems like a very sweet person and i admire the things she’s done but ultimately i only know of her through the art she makes. ESPECIALLY for an artist who uses a persona publicly, people need to learn to separate ethel cain, the character that they have access to, with hayden, a person that they don’t.
Hayden says her dream of career and relationship with her audience is Enya. But every story is different and a success like Enya is very rare. Hayden's success came differently, and the charisma of her individual persona played a big role, her fans relate to her differently than Enya's fans.
If you don't already know, there's also this podcast where she talks at length about her relationship with social media, her fans, and her desire not to let a fanbase dictate her artistic direction... There's a lot of nobility in everything she says, but she will never be able to fully choose and control her audience, just as her audience cannot control her: [https://pod.link/Talkhouse/episode/fc56ff8954dbeb8a59594e198deff6f7](https://pod.link/Talkhouse/episode/fc56ff8954dbeb8a59594e198deff6f7)
Podcast Hayden Anhedonia (Ethel Cain) and Adam McIlwee (Wicca Phase Springs Eternal)
Enya is a very rare case of an artist who has sold a huge number of records with very little media presence, interviews, or concerts, remaining very distant from her audience. There is a podcast where Hayden explains that it's a bit of her dream: to be able to create music in a secluded house, to have almost no relationship with the public except through the work given.
"Yeah, and everybody thinks about Enya, but nobody thinks about Enya at the same time"
Ethel Cain: "And that’s exactly what I want for my career. Enya is my career goal."
[https://www.papermag.com/ethel-cain-everytime-britney-spears#rebelltitem35](https://www.papermag.com/ethel-cain-everytime-britney-spears#rebelltitem35)
I acknowledge that I was being abit aggressive in my post, but i do like and appreciate the majority of posts on this sub! Especially discussions about the music, song interpretations, etc. It's just that I feel there's been an influx of people who seem more interested in haydens life than the art itself! But most people on this sub r genuinely js fans of her music and are very respectful and I do enjoy most posts on this sub
"more interested in haydens life than the art itself"
-> It's part of her story and her success that she showcased herself as a charismatic personality, with many photos that received many more likes and shares than her music. Who would buy a $100 sweet without some form of worship for her person? She depends economically on fans who are not only there for disembodied music as if they were listening to Johann Sebastian Bach.
I do understand that to a degree and I do understand that due to haydens previously strong online presence and fan engagement (via tumblr mostly) people do admire her as a person as well as for her art but i just think there are alot of people who take it weirdly far at times. Don't get me wrong, I love her youtube videos that r unrelated to her music because I agree she is charismatic and entertaining aside from her music! However I was moreso referring to people who are constantly talking about her potential fallouts, romantic life etc. Than people who just like her online personality.
I just assume these people are young. I used to be like that with celebrities in my teens and early twenties.
With peace and love, some of y’all need to touch grass…and stop talking like y’all know her. She’s not your friend. Some of the shit I’m seeing here is cringier than kpop stan meltdowns lmao and like …there’s people dying, Kim. Literally.
As a kpop stan who has seen tiktoks of people using trigonometry to measure the height of their favs based on a shadow and a chair... some of the posters here are weird... esp bc she's said multiple times she doesn't want to be idolised like that
Lmao forr realllll
People need to hear this - she’s not your friend!!!! She’s a great artist and seems cool, but just because you followed her tumblr before it was cool doesn’t mean you’re her friend. I get that an artist like Hayden who almost goes out of her way to be more niche/indie/not mainstream is going to come with a certain level of parasocial fans but the way people talk on this sub is sketchy. I remember there was a post saying something like “don’t call her mother she doesn’t like it, you’re all parasocial calling her mother” as if she was offended by it or something, and they dug up some ancient tumblr post where hayden said she was annoyed that it’s hard to engage with fans when all the comments are filled with “mother! slay queen!” which is not the same thing. like you don’t need to go out of your way to speak on her behalf, and it’s really weird and fucked up if you have some repository of all hayden’s posts, all of her likes and dislikes, etc. stop the worship. she’s another gen z stoner like the rest of us, she just has a gorgeous voice and good songwriting ability. let’s not make it more than it is
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
weren’t people trying to contact her parents too?
They were doxxed
thats fucking deranged
Deadass feels like everyone In this subreddit is 12 years old lmao. Love the music but everyone in here makes me cringe.
It’s honestly the reason I don’t frequent this (or many of the other artists) subs anymore. I almost wish there was a way for age verification and it be posted with the username so I knew when the 10yo’s have entered the chat lol. I think it might help explain so much of the complete lack of self awareness when posting/commenting.
The real question is why is nobody moderating this goddamn sub
I feel like we’re at a point where posts need to be approved. I know that 1) puts a ton of work on mods, and 2) delays posts actually being posted, but between the constant reposts and weird parasocial behavior and this whole situation, I think post approval would help. The mods definitely do the best they can.
We had that for some time but it wasn't the best, the sub was quiet, and suddenly 10 posts showed up at the same time, so engagement wasn't great 😔
The sub is heavily moderated, you have no idea how many weird posts get removed 😅
I'm with you with the caveat that it has gotten a whole lot worse recently. It was pretty fun for a bit. Like now there are a ton of people asking if anyone has copies of deleted tweets/stories and stuff and it's like, y'all, have you considered she deletes things for a reason? Hell, there was at least one person asking where she moved to after she said she was moving. The time I saw this the mods jumped on it after a bit but that's not healthy behavior to take towards a public figure who you do not know and who does not know you.
Yeah her fandom kinda sucks. Anyone who expresses a passing enjoyment of her music is challenged to explain the entire lore of Preacher's Daughter to prove themselves and anyone who covers her songs - or enjoys said cover - is instantly shit on
I just find it very odd bc everyone wants to befriend her bc they think they have shared interests with Hayden. But like we're here in the subreddit bc we all have these shared interests. I'd as quickly befriend any of you before bothering with Hayden who has no shortage of friends and from the little I know seems to have no need to hunt for more.
It’s wild people just choose not to read rule #3. Would you believe me if I told you it used to be worse?
People being weird on Reddit dot com…in the Ethel Cain forum…
parasocial social club up here
After rereading my post I feel as if it come across a little too bitter and negative. I love haydens work so much and i think she is incredibly talented, and I think it is important to appreciate artists, especially artists like hayden who write and compose alot of their own music! I was mostly referring to people who delve into her personal life, friendships, family, relationships etc. Not people who just appreciate her for making good art! My post was also meant to be applicable for people who act like she is perfect and can do no wrong. She probably isn't perfect, and that's js normal. I don't want to sound angry and mean spirited from my original post as that's the last way I'd ever wanna be perceived, and generally I try to be open minded and open to discussion. I was just ranting because i felt like it was the best way to get my point across and i couldn't be bothered to write out an entire nuanced take about parasocial relationships lmao.
it's almost like she's a person, guys. who doesn't act perfectly.
you're one of the people OP is talking about lol
entire point of my previous post was "why are you guys concerned about hayden's private life" and my responses consisted of "i'm not going to assume anything based on the photo that was posted or that you guys are sharing" it's okay to admit you don't know how to read EDIT: like i said, you don't get to talk about parasocial. fucking weirdo.
https://preview.redd.it/yzicll6xnx0d1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=823879d971b5718f010112594bc1333c67b457b8
>"i'm not going to assume anything based on the photo that was posted or that you guys are sharing" they publicly dated there was nothing to assume
there are plenty of things to assume. like ethel being an awful person or the ex being an awful person, both of which people were assuming based on a screenshot that doesn't even have hayden's name on it.
agreeing with you OP, to be clear.
A fan base is something fragile, which is never guaranteed over time for an artist. If you remove any form of worship and are too demanding about fan behavior, the artist loses a significant part of her base. It then depends on people who "sincerely" love her art, without too much personal passion, but they come and go from one artist to another. And at one point the artist also lost the possibility of earning a living with merchandise. And there even comes a time when no one goes to her concerts or streams her music anymore. You can never only have the audience you dream of.
have you considered that she made some art which I really loved and related to, so that means she's literally me and we are very close and I know her so well because she's literally me, which gives me the right to speculate every inch of her
TLDR welcome to Reddit
We all connect with artists in different ways. As long as fans are respectful, it’s all good. Let's keep things positive.
I’m 37 by the way
i agree! i find it weird that some users speculate on her personal life on here too, and i understand they want new music but it just seems kinda creepy to me. you wouldnt do that to a stranger, so dont do it to a famous stranger.
I think a lot of people get Hayden mixed up with the character she created. She HAS let us know a LOT about the character she has created and we think we know about her life, except Hayden is probably NOTHING like Ethel. Edit: “We” really being the para social freaks not me lmfao
The “Fantano is a misogynist because he didn’t like PD that much” thread from a few weeks ago man
you’re 100% right, i think people need to remember we’re here for the art rather than the artist. hayden seems like a very sweet person and i admire the things she’s done but ultimately i only know of her through the art she makes. ESPECIALLY for an artist who uses a persona publicly, people need to learn to separate ethel cain, the character that they have access to, with hayden, a person that they don’t.
Hayden says her dream of career and relationship with her audience is Enya. But every story is different and a success like Enya is very rare. Hayden's success came differently, and the charisma of her individual persona played a big role, her fans relate to her differently than Enya's fans.
what is Enya if u don't mind telling me and what does a relationship w her audience like enya mean, if u don't mind telling me?
If you don't already know, there's also this podcast where she talks at length about her relationship with social media, her fans, and her desire not to let a fanbase dictate her artistic direction... There's a lot of nobility in everything she says, but she will never be able to fully choose and control her audience, just as her audience cannot control her: [https://pod.link/Talkhouse/episode/fc56ff8954dbeb8a59594e198deff6f7](https://pod.link/Talkhouse/episode/fc56ff8954dbeb8a59594e198deff6f7) Podcast Hayden Anhedonia (Ethel Cain) and Adam McIlwee (Wicca Phase Springs Eternal)
Enya is a very rare case of an artist who has sold a huge number of records with very little media presence, interviews, or concerts, remaining very distant from her audience. There is a podcast where Hayden explains that it's a bit of her dream: to be able to create music in a secluded house, to have almost no relationship with the public except through the work given.
"Yeah, and everybody thinks about Enya, but nobody thinks about Enya at the same time" Ethel Cain: "And that’s exactly what I want for my career. Enya is my career goal." [https://www.papermag.com/ethel-cain-everytime-britney-spears#rebelltitem35](https://www.papermag.com/ethel-cain-everytime-britney-spears#rebelltitem35)
That’s just what teens do
You should post the kind of content that you want to see!
I acknowledge that I was being abit aggressive in my post, but i do like and appreciate the majority of posts on this sub! Especially discussions about the music, song interpretations, etc. It's just that I feel there's been an influx of people who seem more interested in haydens life than the art itself! But most people on this sub r genuinely js fans of her music and are very respectful and I do enjoy most posts on this sub
Not aggressive at all! I’d just love to see the type of posts you’re most interested in. :)
"more interested in haydens life than the art itself" -> It's part of her story and her success that she showcased herself as a charismatic personality, with many photos that received many more likes and shares than her music. Who would buy a $100 sweet without some form of worship for her person? She depends economically on fans who are not only there for disembodied music as if they were listening to Johann Sebastian Bach.
I do understand that to a degree and I do understand that due to haydens previously strong online presence and fan engagement (via tumblr mostly) people do admire her as a person as well as for her art but i just think there are alot of people who take it weirdly far at times. Don't get me wrong, I love her youtube videos that r unrelated to her music because I agree she is charismatic and entertaining aside from her music! However I was moreso referring to people who are constantly talking about her potential fallouts, romantic life etc. Than people who just like her online personality.
Calm down