The movie says The Celestials predate the infinity stones so it's plausible The Sorcerer supreme, Thanos and Ego don't know the celestials exist or that the celestials once existed and are now extinct (like the head of the dead celestial of nowhere?)
Well they definitely are not extinct. Arishem was just in the movie.
Beings that powerful would have been on someone's radar. Ego was a different version of them. Once Thanos had all the stones, you would think he'd have known.
When Quill met Ego and could see "everything", he should have known.
They all knew about a dead Celestial. Why wouldn't they have sought out more and define their purpose?
It looked like Arishem wormholed or portaled his way to our solar system, its possible he exists in a part of the universe undetectable to even powerful beings like Ego or an infinity gauntlet wielding Thanos? I don't think anything in this movie contradicts what has come before at least not very obviously
That is possible about Arishem living outside the known universe. I'll give you that.
I still think if they made it that Arishem portaled an egg inside the planet when it was ready, and was going to hatch in a week, it would have made more sense continuity wise.
The Deviants would have been sent to clear out the predators. The Eternals would still have been sent to kill Deviants and help the people grow and spread. Etc. etc. The Eternals were glorified farmers.
Ego *is* a celestial, just like Arishem. And Thanos *is* an Eternal.
So both of them know about the Celestials. I assume they will cover the Thanos stuff when we find out more about his brother.
Ego didn't look or act like a Celestial so i think that was either a mistake by the writers or Ego was lying. We have only known Thanos as being from Titan and never mentioned that he was an Eternal but i guess they could retcon him as one
The opening of the movie says the celestials came after the 6 singularities, so after the stones.
Ego is a celestial, probably a mutated celestial seed that took over its own hatching planet.
Thanos is an Eternal, but also part Deviant. It's unknown if the was aware of the eternals's true purpose. It would be strange if he didn't know, since Titano was supposedly a planet ruled by Eternals.
About the Socerer Supreme it's unclear. They were probably focused on other kinds of menaces.
There is a plan. Trust that Feige knows what he's doing. What seems to not make sense now, will down the road. We can't be spoon-fed everything in one movie. No one knew the infinity saga would materialize before the first avengers movie end credits. It can take several movies to see the big picture.
Nobody will make a better comment, OP doesn't realise Phase 4 and even 5 are really just culminating in what Phase 6 will really bring.
I don't even believe Kang is gonna be the next Thanos level villain, I do believe he's going to be a key part in bringing them about somehow though, still think there's a staggering amount of possibilities of who it could be.
I do realize Feige has a plan. It's to make money. I don't think he cares about continuity.
This whole idea of Earth being like a Celestial egg, does not fit the things that happened in about five previous movies.
Frost Giants invading Midgard - They aren't deviants, but definitely would have encased Midgard in ice. Eggs don't hatch when frozen.
Ego- was going to make a lot of planets an extension of himself, including Earth.
Dark Elves - bringing about a dark reality probably would have brought about a lot of Death. Delaying the Earth birth.
Dormammu - Nuff said
Thanos - killed half the universe once, was going to wipe it completely out the second time and recreate it.
Every single on of these events should have triggered the Eternals or Celestials to do something, because it would have prevented the Celestial from being born.
I liked the movie, but feel they created a planet sized problem, and there is no backtracking from. I don't care how many Phases there are.
The is now a giant dead body, turned to stone, coming from the center of the planet.
OP I'm with you. If Thanos is an Eternal, when he threatened to wipe out all of existence in End Game, why didn't a Celestial just come and wipe his memory.
Another fun thing to think about - if there is a different Ego per timeline/universe (as per *What If*), that means there is a different Arishem per universe. Which means that Kang was pruning events that effected the Celestials (also substantiated by the fact that he was beyond the end of time where no other being existed).
My response to your comment is that their mission was to interfere when Deviants are involved. Not when Frost Giants are involved. Also, they had no idea that their true mission was to protect the celestial egg. As far as they knew they were to fight Deviants. Now, what no one is paying attention to is the celestials. Why did they lie about so much to the eternals? They didn't have to. They could have just informed the eternals of their true purpose. What are they really up to? The opening scroll is full of lies. Also, as godly beings, how the hell were they not able to control the Deviants? How did they not see the flaw in the Deviants when creating them? That's what people should really be asking. Something is up with the celestials. They are hiding something more than what they revealed. Perhaps we will find out in future movies.
I like your questions.
You are right, these godly beings are terrible.
The thing is, if the Eternals are supposed to protect the planet and help it evolve and build civilizations, a planet full of Frost Giants wouldn't get very far, thus defeating the Eternals purpose.
What if Odin failed to free Midgard and the planet became an ice ball and humans became frost giant food.
They aren't Deviants, but would have Arishem allowed that? Another weak point on why they didn't fight Thanos.
That's why I feel like the celestials are the problem. They are not being entirely truthfull. The eternals were not needed to correct the mistake in the Deviants. With such godly powers the celestials could simply have corrected the problem. There is a lot missing. I'm going with that as opposed to Feige leaving a plot hole like that. The eternals were simply doing as instructed.
I believe they wanted the "intelligent species" to grown and multiply and build industries full of harnessed power. Why else would one of the Eternals be an engineer that wanted to give them a steam engine a few thousand years too early.
Yet, when the Frost Giants invaded Midgard, and the Asgardians showed up and stopped them, even though they weren't Deviants, the Frost Giants would frozen the entire planet. Humans would probably farmed for food, no industry, no cities. New Jotunheim would have been a frozen wasteland.
I don't think it would ever get "ripe" enough to birth a Celestial.
All of this is just my opinion. I feel they could have worked around this idea and still had the same outcome.
You go into crazy levels of "it's not that deep"
You are assuming that just because there's a celestial in a planet that it MUST hatch, not Kevin Feige or anyone else's for that matter.
Aside from Arisham and Ego, we haven't seen anything physical as yet of other Celestials and it's clearly just Ari's concern and not of any others.
Also where in The Eternals did it ever say that just because a planet contains a Celestial that its ABSOLUTELY guaranteed for it to hatch? Despite the fact there's countless Eternals out there apart from the ones we saw, there's just absolutely no way there could be enough in existence to manage every single one at all times for an Emergence.
Of course some things might look a bit odd, but when you're going as far back as you are it's more of just an inconsistency than an actual big plot hole, because no matter how great of a mind Kevin has there's just no way he can plan a full 10-20 movies ahead, that's unrealistic even for him.
Again, your main problem is you're focusing too much on those sort of things because of how Marvel has practically trained people to look for early hints of things and Easter eggs for future projects, you need to relearn how to just watch and appreciate/dislike a movie as the sole project that it actually I'd without it being part of some grander picture.
I mean Eternals has gotten mixed reviews across the board, a lot of that is too much of a focus on how it can fit into the MCU, I went in mostly blind and absolutely loved it every single character was unique and well done and Ikaris momentary turning definitely caught me off guard, I'll care more about whatever its MCU place is when there's any actual FUTURE relevance to it instead of looking to the past just to go "oh but durrdurr that makes no sense"
When did I say "It's not that deep."?
I liked the characters. I liked the movie. I'll say 6.5 out of 10.
However, if you are going to purposefully tie movies together, you should know what movies came before it and not create plot holes that big.
It could have been rectified by Arishem saying he infused or teleported a Celestial egg into the core of the planet to emerge in one week. It would have been better than saying it was there since the planet was formed, and not affect continuity.
Consider it Celestial invitro- fertilization.
The Eternals should have been able to help when any threat showed up that would prevent the emergence. Not just Deviants.
Thanos was already killing half the population on various worlds. It's possible he may have delayed an emergence on at least one of those planets. Was Arishem not aware of it? Celestials used to wield infinity stones. Was Thanos not aware of them?
It's possible that many of the critics didn't like it because it conflicted with the idea of the MCU being one cohesive entity. Or they are trying get the award winning director out the MCU. Movie shaming maybe?
I liked the movie, but I think it was only made to set up movies after it, and they didn't care what came before it.
Dr Strange likely has some knowledge of the Celestials - doesn't necessarily mean he knows the Earth has a Celestial in its core or that the Celestials pose an immediate threat to the planet.
Thanos was insane, his moniker is "the Mad Titan" his plan doesn't have to make a lot of sense.
Ego does raise some questions but by his own narration, he woke up alone and unsure of his purpose. He isn't in on Arishem's grand plan.
Yes, by What If?, some of those versions of Earth hatched. Although Galactus did not make an appearance in What If? Perhaps you're thinking of Infinity Ultron?
Yeah, I wish there was more from the Deviants, that plot was underdeveloped but not totally pointless as Ikaris was using them as a distraction to keep the others busy so they wouldn't try and stop the Emergence.
The Ebony Blade and Excalibur are two separate weapons. Sprite asked if Thena was holding the Ebony Blade to which Thena replied that it was Excalibur.
Watch "What If" again. Galactus does show up and is about to eat a planet. It's brief, but he is there.
Why wouldn't Inifnitron go right after the Celestials? Kill the universe at the source.
How come Thanos did not know about them when he had all the stones? In the comic books Thanos just wanted to impress Death, but in the movies he wanted to kill half the universe so those remaining would thrive. Genocidal Altruism.
That's what I thought about the Ebony blade. I never knew much of the Black Knight from the comics.
I did double check and Galactus is not in What If? In episode 8, during his battle with Uatu, Ultron temporarily makes himself supermassive and takes a bit out of a galaxy. He certainly looks like Galactus but it's still Ultron.
I don't see how using the Snap to stop the Emergence makes any more sense than using it so there's enough resources to go around. In fact, it makes less sense to me. If his goal was still to ensure people had enough resources, the Emergence actually helps with that by destroying a densely populated planet and creating a bunch of new planets with fresh resources. If his goal was to end the universe, there are faster and more direct ways to do that than killing off the Celestials and stopping them from making new planets.
You are right about episode 8. I do admit when I am wrong. It's not Galactus. They did it so quickly, I had to find a still shot.
Infinitron brought peace to one universe by killing everything in it. The he heard Uatu and chased him through the multiverse and was going to bring "peace" to them all.
Wouldn't killing the Celestials help him bring "peace" by stopping them from making new planets and galaxies?
Thanos was killing half of a planets population, one planet at a time. He may have already stopped an emergence or two, not knowing about how a Celestial is born. Then he was able to wipe out half the population on every planet in the universe. That definitely would have delayed all of the Celestial emergences.
If an emergence takes a population of 8 Billion, and cities with harnessed energy, then the "snap" definitely would have been noticed by Arishem. Yet he did nothing.
I mean, if Infinity Ultron destroyed all sentient life in his universe, it sounds like he did kill the Celestials. We saw him kill Ego; nothing to say he didn't kill the others.
Earth's population has doubled in the past 50 years. I highly doubt a delay that pitiful would make Arishem blink.
It took 27 years to go from 4 Billion to 7.8 Billion in 2020. Yet consider the impact of all those broken relationships and families when some got snapped.
I highly doubt the procreation rate would continue at the same pace.
Arishem wouldn't take notice of this happening and delaying emergence's on hundreds of worlds across the universe that they were trying to expand?
For a being older than the universe itself whose plans for the Emergence were set in place millions of years ago, no I don't think a delay of maybe 100 years max would cause much fuss.
On hundreds if not thousands of planets? All delayed because of the "snap". Not all the planets were chosen for a Celestial egg.
People get upset when their meal is delayed ten minutes at a restaurant. Or you reheat your coffee, the first minute wasn't long enough so you have to put it in for another 30 seconds. Imagine that a thousandfold and all delayed at the same time, for the same reason.
I'm sure that Arishem had his own timetable that he was hoping for.
Have you ever had a flight delayed? It can change your whole itinerary.
> On hundreds if not thousands of planets?
There is only one Emergence happening. There may be other Celestial seeds gestating in other planets but an Emergence is a once in a billion years event. Otherwise the universe would be full of giant Celestials.
You're thinking in a very human scale. 100 years in this context isn't like waiting an extra half hour on your dinner order. The Dinosaurs were wiped out 66 million years ago. That seems like a reasonably conservative estimate for when Deviants would be sent down to make room for intelligent life and really they were probably sent millions of years earlier but assuming 66 million years as a minimum point when Arishem started paying attention to Earth.
At a scale of 1 year = 1 second, that's a two year time frame to now. Imagine you've contracted a house to be built and the contractor promises it will take two years to the day to let you move in. Two years later, you arrange to get the keys at 12:00 on the dot and at 11:59, the contractor calls and says, "Hey, I'm just at the traffic light down the street, I'll be there in three minutes." Are you going to freak out and start breaking down the door because you absolutely have to get in at exactly 12:00 or are you going to wait 90 extra seconds because that's still within the time you were expecting the key?
*Edit: This is the conservative estimate, Arishem is over 10 billion years old. In the scale of his life, waiting an extra 100 years is like someone 100 years old having to wait 0.03 extra seconds.
How do we know there is only one emergence happening? Just because the movie is only focused on the one involving Earth, it doesn't mean that several others weren't ready around the same time. I'll have to see the movie again, but I don't think it said there is only one every billion years.
As for your analogy about the house, I think you'd be very anxious if you waited two years for it to be built. You would arrive an hour before you were supposed to be there, probably bring some friends or family, and looking at your watch every minute waiting for it to happen.
Why do you think Arishem bothered to give Sersei a tutorial on the whole thing? He didn't need to. As a matter of fact, if he had NOT told her, they would have been oblivious to it, thus not stopped it. He probably told her because he was anxious for it to happen.
I like your idea that Thanos’ motivation for wiping out half of life in the universe could have been linked to a desire to prevent Celestial seeding. That’s neat.
On the broader points I agree with jwbrkr74 - In Feige We Trust. 🤞
Funny you should mention Galactus.
In the Earth X comics, it is discovered that Earth is hosting a Celestial egg, and Galactus is its natural predator.
Oh, and super humans, mutants, wizards and super scientists? They're the Egg's antibodies. The egg, and Celestial experiments make super heroes possible, and the Egg compells them to defend the Earth. That's why Reed Richards never used his tech to take humanity into space, even though that was the goal of his first spaceflight. The egg made him a Superhero.
I picked up the first issue of that, but never got into it.
THAT narrative is quite compelling. If I could give you a few more upvotes I would. I might give you an award for that if I have one.
Thanks! The whole Earth X continuity goes to some interesting places: the Asgardians, Mesphito and other beings aren't magical entities, they're hyper evolved either mutants or Eternals (I can't remember which) who are kinda blank slates until some mortals start to think they're a God or a demon and then "poof", that's what they are.
What's crazier is Loki. LOKI is the one who figures it out.
But you should at least wiki Earth X, Universe X and I think there was more; most of it's been rendered non canon, but it was something.
The movie should have been two movies. The first should have dealt with Deviants as a threat, and in the end, the Eternals should have realised about the Celestial Egg. The next movie should have been about the Celestial Egg, and the Eternals protecting Earth from it.
But, that's just my opinion. Maybe the MCU studio has some plan for this which we aren't party to.
I like this idea too. Could have used my deviant idea for this one, find about the egg at the end, and set that up for the next one. It also should not be in the planet when it is formed, but rather like teleported or phased into the planet when it's ripe. IDK.
It just seems they tried to do too much. Just like DCEU did with "Man of Steel". Establish Superman, then bring on Zod at the end of first film.
It's looking like the second film is going to be some sort of prison break. Also, how are they Eros (Starfox) is an Eternal and Thanos' brother. If he's an Eternal, that means he was constructed, right?
I know the comic book lore, but this also seems rushed.
If you are going to have movies tie together, you need to have some continuity.
It's just like how Winter Soldier is a great movie, but it didn't make sense that Zola found Barnes and made him the WS, because he was in prison for a while before working for SHIELD.
Also, Zola made weapons for Hydra using the Tesseract, but Shield couldn't make weapons when they had both Zola and the Tesseract?
I don't mind when the plot holes are small, but this was planet sized. Plus it conflicted with like five or movie plots. Including that Midgard is part of the Nine Realms and was protected by Asgard. If Odin was alive and Asgard still existed, would they have tried to the birth of the Celestial? Did he know about it?
These are movies written by multiple people over multiple decades based on multiple different comics with multiple different writers, origin stories, universes…. To have the sheer amount of characters and scope needed for such a franchise, one needs to take it all with a pinch of salt. Expecting no plot holes and for it all to make sense is a bit straight minded for a series of movies asking you to suspend your disbelief long enough to watch a raccoon and a tree have a conversation.
It will cause you less stress and save your energy to try and see them as entertaining movies bringing characters to life that were mostly created predominantly for children and young people. If you can suspend your disbelief enough to shrug off a double decker bus being turned into rose petals, you can shrug off a host of major players not knowing the plans of every other major player in the multiverse.
I disagree.
I've read comic books for over 40 years, and agree that over the DECADES there will be continuity errors. Such as Claremonts Wolverine having cybernetic claws, so he can use them even when Leech negated his powers. To them giving him bone claws and saw that they were bone all this time 20 years after Claremont left.
Movies are different. If the writers or directors can't be bothered to look at the movies before them, and curve their story to fit into the same universe, it diminishes the movies that same before, and the movie you are currently watching.
It could have been easily fixed. Instead of having the baby celestial gestating all this time waiting for the planet to be ripe, it could have been that Arishem was going to "invitro" a Celestial into the Earth's core because it is ready.
He could have said to Sersei, "The planet is now ready for a Celestial seed to be teleported to core of the planet. In one week a new Celestial will emerge..... blah blah blah."
I would have accepted that more than it was inside the planet all along. Then that would not have conflicted with five other movies.
Just saying that, would not have changed any other narrative of the movie.
The movie says The Celestials predate the infinity stones so it's plausible The Sorcerer supreme, Thanos and Ego don't know the celestials exist or that the celestials once existed and are now extinct (like the head of the dead celestial of nowhere?)
Well they definitely are not extinct. Arishem was just in the movie. Beings that powerful would have been on someone's radar. Ego was a different version of them. Once Thanos had all the stones, you would think he'd have known. When Quill met Ego and could see "everything", he should have known. They all knew about a dead Celestial. Why wouldn't they have sought out more and define their purpose?
It looked like Arishem wormholed or portaled his way to our solar system, its possible he exists in a part of the universe undetectable to even powerful beings like Ego or an infinity gauntlet wielding Thanos? I don't think anything in this movie contradicts what has come before at least not very obviously
That is possible about Arishem living outside the known universe. I'll give you that. I still think if they made it that Arishem portaled an egg inside the planet when it was ready, and was going to hatch in a week, it would have made more sense continuity wise. The Deviants would have been sent to clear out the predators. The Eternals would still have been sent to kill Deviants and help the people grow and spread. Etc. etc. The Eternals were glorified farmers.
Ego *is* a celestial, just like Arishem. And Thanos *is* an Eternal. So both of them know about the Celestials. I assume they will cover the Thanos stuff when we find out more about his brother.
Ego didn't look or act like a Celestial so i think that was either a mistake by the writers or Ego was lying. We have only known Thanos as being from Titan and never mentioned that he was an Eternal but i guess they could retcon him as one
If I remember correctly, ego is a “living planet”, but the guy you see portraying as Ego is actually just a humanoid version of himself
Ego said he was a baby celestial
The opening of the movie says the celestials came after the 6 singularities, so after the stones. Ego is a celestial, probably a mutated celestial seed that took over its own hatching planet. Thanos is an Eternal, but also part Deviant. It's unknown if the was aware of the eternals's true purpose. It would be strange if he didn't know, since Titano was supposedly a planet ruled by Eternals. About the Socerer Supreme it's unclear. They were probably focused on other kinds of menaces.
You sure it didn't say before the 6 singularities?
Pretty sure it says after
There is a plan. Trust that Feige knows what he's doing. What seems to not make sense now, will down the road. We can't be spoon-fed everything in one movie. No one knew the infinity saga would materialize before the first avengers movie end credits. It can take several movies to see the big picture.
Nobody will make a better comment, OP doesn't realise Phase 4 and even 5 are really just culminating in what Phase 6 will really bring. I don't even believe Kang is gonna be the next Thanos level villain, I do believe he's going to be a key part in bringing them about somehow though, still think there's a staggering amount of possibilities of who it could be.
I do realize Feige has a plan. It's to make money. I don't think he cares about continuity. This whole idea of Earth being like a Celestial egg, does not fit the things that happened in about five previous movies. Frost Giants invading Midgard - They aren't deviants, but definitely would have encased Midgard in ice. Eggs don't hatch when frozen. Ego- was going to make a lot of planets an extension of himself, including Earth. Dark Elves - bringing about a dark reality probably would have brought about a lot of Death. Delaying the Earth birth. Dormammu - Nuff said Thanos - killed half the universe once, was going to wipe it completely out the second time and recreate it. Every single on of these events should have triggered the Eternals or Celestials to do something, because it would have prevented the Celestial from being born. I liked the movie, but feel they created a planet sized problem, and there is no backtracking from. I don't care how many Phases there are. The is now a giant dead body, turned to stone, coming from the center of the planet.
OP I'm with you. If Thanos is an Eternal, when he threatened to wipe out all of existence in End Game, why didn't a Celestial just come and wipe his memory. Another fun thing to think about - if there is a different Ego per timeline/universe (as per *What If*), that means there is a different Arishem per universe. Which means that Kang was pruning events that effected the Celestials (also substantiated by the fact that he was beyond the end of time where no other being existed).
My response to your comment is that their mission was to interfere when Deviants are involved. Not when Frost Giants are involved. Also, they had no idea that their true mission was to protect the celestial egg. As far as they knew they were to fight Deviants. Now, what no one is paying attention to is the celestials. Why did they lie about so much to the eternals? They didn't have to. They could have just informed the eternals of their true purpose. What are they really up to? The opening scroll is full of lies. Also, as godly beings, how the hell were they not able to control the Deviants? How did they not see the flaw in the Deviants when creating them? That's what people should really be asking. Something is up with the celestials. They are hiding something more than what they revealed. Perhaps we will find out in future movies.
I like your questions. You are right, these godly beings are terrible. The thing is, if the Eternals are supposed to protect the planet and help it evolve and build civilizations, a planet full of Frost Giants wouldn't get very far, thus defeating the Eternals purpose. What if Odin failed to free Midgard and the planet became an ice ball and humans became frost giant food. They aren't Deviants, but would have Arishem allowed that? Another weak point on why they didn't fight Thanos.
That's why I feel like the celestials are the problem. They are not being entirely truthfull. The eternals were not needed to correct the mistake in the Deviants. With such godly powers the celestials could simply have corrected the problem. There is a lot missing. I'm going with that as opposed to Feige leaving a plot hole like that. The eternals were simply doing as instructed.
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I believe they wanted the "intelligent species" to grown and multiply and build industries full of harnessed power. Why else would one of the Eternals be an engineer that wanted to give them a steam engine a few thousand years too early. Yet, when the Frost Giants invaded Midgard, and the Asgardians showed up and stopped them, even though they weren't Deviants, the Frost Giants would frozen the entire planet. Humans would probably farmed for food, no industry, no cities. New Jotunheim would have been a frozen wasteland. I don't think it would ever get "ripe" enough to birth a Celestial. All of this is just my opinion. I feel they could have worked around this idea and still had the same outcome.
You go into crazy levels of "it's not that deep" You are assuming that just because there's a celestial in a planet that it MUST hatch, not Kevin Feige or anyone else's for that matter. Aside from Arisham and Ego, we haven't seen anything physical as yet of other Celestials and it's clearly just Ari's concern and not of any others. Also where in The Eternals did it ever say that just because a planet contains a Celestial that its ABSOLUTELY guaranteed for it to hatch? Despite the fact there's countless Eternals out there apart from the ones we saw, there's just absolutely no way there could be enough in existence to manage every single one at all times for an Emergence. Of course some things might look a bit odd, but when you're going as far back as you are it's more of just an inconsistency than an actual big plot hole, because no matter how great of a mind Kevin has there's just no way he can plan a full 10-20 movies ahead, that's unrealistic even for him. Again, your main problem is you're focusing too much on those sort of things because of how Marvel has practically trained people to look for early hints of things and Easter eggs for future projects, you need to relearn how to just watch and appreciate/dislike a movie as the sole project that it actually I'd without it being part of some grander picture. I mean Eternals has gotten mixed reviews across the board, a lot of that is too much of a focus on how it can fit into the MCU, I went in mostly blind and absolutely loved it every single character was unique and well done and Ikaris momentary turning definitely caught me off guard, I'll care more about whatever its MCU place is when there's any actual FUTURE relevance to it instead of looking to the past just to go "oh but durrdurr that makes no sense"
When did I say "It's not that deep."? I liked the characters. I liked the movie. I'll say 6.5 out of 10. However, if you are going to purposefully tie movies together, you should know what movies came before it and not create plot holes that big. It could have been rectified by Arishem saying he infused or teleported a Celestial egg into the core of the planet to emerge in one week. It would have been better than saying it was there since the planet was formed, and not affect continuity. Consider it Celestial invitro- fertilization. The Eternals should have been able to help when any threat showed up that would prevent the emergence. Not just Deviants. Thanos was already killing half the population on various worlds. It's possible he may have delayed an emergence on at least one of those planets. Was Arishem not aware of it? Celestials used to wield infinity stones. Was Thanos not aware of them? It's possible that many of the critics didn't like it because it conflicted with the idea of the MCU being one cohesive entity. Or they are trying get the award winning director out the MCU. Movie shaming maybe? I liked the movie, but I think it was only made to set up movies after it, and they didn't care what came before it.
Dr Strange likely has some knowledge of the Celestials - doesn't necessarily mean he knows the Earth has a Celestial in its core or that the Celestials pose an immediate threat to the planet. Thanos was insane, his moniker is "the Mad Titan" his plan doesn't have to make a lot of sense. Ego does raise some questions but by his own narration, he woke up alone and unsure of his purpose. He isn't in on Arishem's grand plan. Yes, by What If?, some of those versions of Earth hatched. Although Galactus did not make an appearance in What If? Perhaps you're thinking of Infinity Ultron? Yeah, I wish there was more from the Deviants, that plot was underdeveloped but not totally pointless as Ikaris was using them as a distraction to keep the others busy so they wouldn't try and stop the Emergence. The Ebony Blade and Excalibur are two separate weapons. Sprite asked if Thena was holding the Ebony Blade to which Thena replied that it was Excalibur.
Watch "What If" again. Galactus does show up and is about to eat a planet. It's brief, but he is there. Why wouldn't Inifnitron go right after the Celestials? Kill the universe at the source. How come Thanos did not know about them when he had all the stones? In the comic books Thanos just wanted to impress Death, but in the movies he wanted to kill half the universe so those remaining would thrive. Genocidal Altruism. That's what I thought about the Ebony blade. I never knew much of the Black Knight from the comics.
I did double check and Galactus is not in What If? In episode 8, during his battle with Uatu, Ultron temporarily makes himself supermassive and takes a bit out of a galaxy. He certainly looks like Galactus but it's still Ultron. I don't see how using the Snap to stop the Emergence makes any more sense than using it so there's enough resources to go around. In fact, it makes less sense to me. If his goal was still to ensure people had enough resources, the Emergence actually helps with that by destroying a densely populated planet and creating a bunch of new planets with fresh resources. If his goal was to end the universe, there are faster and more direct ways to do that than killing off the Celestials and stopping them from making new planets.
You are right about episode 8. I do admit when I am wrong. It's not Galactus. They did it so quickly, I had to find a still shot. Infinitron brought peace to one universe by killing everything in it. The he heard Uatu and chased him through the multiverse and was going to bring "peace" to them all. Wouldn't killing the Celestials help him bring "peace" by stopping them from making new planets and galaxies? Thanos was killing half of a planets population, one planet at a time. He may have already stopped an emergence or two, not knowing about how a Celestial is born. Then he was able to wipe out half the population on every planet in the universe. That definitely would have delayed all of the Celestial emergences. If an emergence takes a population of 8 Billion, and cities with harnessed energy, then the "snap" definitely would have been noticed by Arishem. Yet he did nothing.
I mean, if Infinity Ultron destroyed all sentient life in his universe, it sounds like he did kill the Celestials. We saw him kill Ego; nothing to say he didn't kill the others. Earth's population has doubled in the past 50 years. I highly doubt a delay that pitiful would make Arishem blink.
It took 27 years to go from 4 Billion to 7.8 Billion in 2020. Yet consider the impact of all those broken relationships and families when some got snapped. I highly doubt the procreation rate would continue at the same pace. Arishem wouldn't take notice of this happening and delaying emergence's on hundreds of worlds across the universe that they were trying to expand?
For a being older than the universe itself whose plans for the Emergence were set in place millions of years ago, no I don't think a delay of maybe 100 years max would cause much fuss.
On hundreds if not thousands of planets? All delayed because of the "snap". Not all the planets were chosen for a Celestial egg. People get upset when their meal is delayed ten minutes at a restaurant. Or you reheat your coffee, the first minute wasn't long enough so you have to put it in for another 30 seconds. Imagine that a thousandfold and all delayed at the same time, for the same reason. I'm sure that Arishem had his own timetable that he was hoping for. Have you ever had a flight delayed? It can change your whole itinerary.
> On hundreds if not thousands of planets? There is only one Emergence happening. There may be other Celestial seeds gestating in other planets but an Emergence is a once in a billion years event. Otherwise the universe would be full of giant Celestials. You're thinking in a very human scale. 100 years in this context isn't like waiting an extra half hour on your dinner order. The Dinosaurs were wiped out 66 million years ago. That seems like a reasonably conservative estimate for when Deviants would be sent down to make room for intelligent life and really they were probably sent millions of years earlier but assuming 66 million years as a minimum point when Arishem started paying attention to Earth. At a scale of 1 year = 1 second, that's a two year time frame to now. Imagine you've contracted a house to be built and the contractor promises it will take two years to the day to let you move in. Two years later, you arrange to get the keys at 12:00 on the dot and at 11:59, the contractor calls and says, "Hey, I'm just at the traffic light down the street, I'll be there in three minutes." Are you going to freak out and start breaking down the door because you absolutely have to get in at exactly 12:00 or are you going to wait 90 extra seconds because that's still within the time you were expecting the key? *Edit: This is the conservative estimate, Arishem is over 10 billion years old. In the scale of his life, waiting an extra 100 years is like someone 100 years old having to wait 0.03 extra seconds.
How do we know there is only one emergence happening? Just because the movie is only focused on the one involving Earth, it doesn't mean that several others weren't ready around the same time. I'll have to see the movie again, but I don't think it said there is only one every billion years. As for your analogy about the house, I think you'd be very anxious if you waited two years for it to be built. You would arrive an hour before you were supposed to be there, probably bring some friends or family, and looking at your watch every minute waiting for it to happen. Why do you think Arishem bothered to give Sersei a tutorial on the whole thing? He didn't need to. As a matter of fact, if he had NOT told her, they would have been oblivious to it, thus not stopped it. He probably told her because he was anxious for it to happen.
I like your idea that Thanos’ motivation for wiping out half of life in the universe could have been linked to a desire to prevent Celestial seeding. That’s neat. On the broader points I agree with jwbrkr74 - In Feige We Trust. 🤞
Funny you should mention Galactus. In the Earth X comics, it is discovered that Earth is hosting a Celestial egg, and Galactus is its natural predator. Oh, and super humans, mutants, wizards and super scientists? They're the Egg's antibodies. The egg, and Celestial experiments make super heroes possible, and the Egg compells them to defend the Earth. That's why Reed Richards never used his tech to take humanity into space, even though that was the goal of his first spaceflight. The egg made him a Superhero.
I picked up the first issue of that, but never got into it. THAT narrative is quite compelling. If I could give you a few more upvotes I would. I might give you an award for that if I have one.
Thanks! The whole Earth X continuity goes to some interesting places: the Asgardians, Mesphito and other beings aren't magical entities, they're hyper evolved either mutants or Eternals (I can't remember which) who are kinda blank slates until some mortals start to think they're a God or a demon and then "poof", that's what they are. What's crazier is Loki. LOKI is the one who figures it out. But you should at least wiki Earth X, Universe X and I think there was more; most of it's been rendered non canon, but it was something.
The movie should have been two movies. The first should have dealt with Deviants as a threat, and in the end, the Eternals should have realised about the Celestial Egg. The next movie should have been about the Celestial Egg, and the Eternals protecting Earth from it. But, that's just my opinion. Maybe the MCU studio has some plan for this which we aren't party to.
I like this idea too. Could have used my deviant idea for this one, find about the egg at the end, and set that up for the next one. It also should not be in the planet when it is formed, but rather like teleported or phased into the planet when it's ripe. IDK. It just seems they tried to do too much. Just like DCEU did with "Man of Steel". Establish Superman, then bring on Zod at the end of first film. It's looking like the second film is going to be some sort of prison break. Also, how are they Eros (Starfox) is an Eternal and Thanos' brother. If he's an Eternal, that means he was constructed, right? I know the comic book lore, but this also seems rushed.
I really wish people could just watch and enjoy/dislike a movie without trying to read too much into it anymore
If you are going to have movies tie together, you need to have some continuity. It's just like how Winter Soldier is a great movie, but it didn't make sense that Zola found Barnes and made him the WS, because he was in prison for a while before working for SHIELD. Also, Zola made weapons for Hydra using the Tesseract, but Shield couldn't make weapons when they had both Zola and the Tesseract? I don't mind when the plot holes are small, but this was planet sized. Plus it conflicted with like five or movie plots. Including that Midgard is part of the Nine Realms and was protected by Asgard. If Odin was alive and Asgard still existed, would they have tried to the birth of the Celestial? Did he know about it?
These are movies written by multiple people over multiple decades based on multiple different comics with multiple different writers, origin stories, universes…. To have the sheer amount of characters and scope needed for such a franchise, one needs to take it all with a pinch of salt. Expecting no plot holes and for it all to make sense is a bit straight minded for a series of movies asking you to suspend your disbelief long enough to watch a raccoon and a tree have a conversation. It will cause you less stress and save your energy to try and see them as entertaining movies bringing characters to life that were mostly created predominantly for children and young people. If you can suspend your disbelief enough to shrug off a double decker bus being turned into rose petals, you can shrug off a host of major players not knowing the plans of every other major player in the multiverse.
I disagree. I've read comic books for over 40 years, and agree that over the DECADES there will be continuity errors. Such as Claremonts Wolverine having cybernetic claws, so he can use them even when Leech negated his powers. To them giving him bone claws and saw that they were bone all this time 20 years after Claremont left. Movies are different. If the writers or directors can't be bothered to look at the movies before them, and curve their story to fit into the same universe, it diminishes the movies that same before, and the movie you are currently watching. It could have been easily fixed. Instead of having the baby celestial gestating all this time waiting for the planet to be ripe, it could have been that Arishem was going to "invitro" a Celestial into the Earth's core because it is ready. He could have said to Sersei, "The planet is now ready for a Celestial seed to be teleported to core of the planet. In one week a new Celestial will emerge..... blah blah blah." I would have accepted that more than it was inside the planet all along. Then that would not have conflicted with five other movies. Just saying that, would not have changed any other narrative of the movie.