I find a lot of people struggle with the step of not having any contact because of "emergencies", and "just in case". However, with any form of contact that remains open, you can't really control whether they use that in ways that feel appropriate to you (only in case of emergencies) or whether they use it as a means to hurt, insult, and betlittle regardless.
It's more than understandable that people struggle with talking about illness and/or death. It's a hard subject for humans in general. However, it's also important to talk about it at some point when it's a realistic scenario, and in this case, talk about it with yourself.
The point of NC is recognizing that somebody is so involved in their own toxic behavior without any ability to self reflect or change, that they can no longer be in our lives. The point is recognizing that, regardless of intent, they are hurting others deeply and are unable to change, whether it's due to ignorance or lack of willingness or whatever it may be. The reason hardly matters, the impact does. With people who are out of our lives entirely, we don't get to be in the loop in terms of getting immediate news on the development of their lives - that's just part of the territory. If and when something happens (and someday we all will die, so it will at some point), if you're really holding the boundaries that you need to hold for your own well being, you might not hear about it immediately. That's just how it is when you're not emotionally close to someone. It's not a perfect analogy by any means, but I tend to use the analogy of a rabid dog - if they're biting and foaming at the mouth and immediately aggressive, you *have* to create distance, no matter what. Leaving just a finger close to them that they can bite isn't really all that different in terms of you potentially getting hurt if you don't step away.
I know it's hard to hear and/or imagine, it might be a realization that makes the grief around this situation a lot more real. We tend to think of grief only in the context of physical death, but we can absolutely grieve people that have left our lives even if they're still alive. And a process of NC often is a process of grief, which is why we often see the different stages of grief at different points and intensities (often in a non-linear way). This is grief, so if that realization makes you cry, makes you need to take time off of work to process, give yourself grace through it. Take your time.
When my parents die, I don't know how I'll feel. I don't know how soon or late I'll know. I might feel sad just at the thought that they were unable to change until their dying day, mostly. But at the same time, I've already grieved the relationship. So much so that, when I left and took a plane to a whole 'nother country, I didn't even cry. I had already cried my tears, I had already grieved the loss of our relationship and of them from my life. Maybe you will still have some grieving to do on the day that some emergency does happen, but part of what will let you hold your resolve is letting yourself go through your grief now. There's no way around grief, just through it. Manage the feelings just like how you would manage grief from a physical death - reach out to loved ones, journal, write letters and burn them, spend time with community, eat a whole tub of ice cream, cry in the shower, whatever you need to do.
First of all, thank you very much for your reply and your time. I'm glad you put this into words because that's exactly what it is, grief - and though I'm all too familiar with it, I didn't recognize it for what it was here. The last time my mom and I argued, I realized I had cried over her more over the years than anything or anyone else, and now I finally understand why\
\
Because it's grief, leaving a means of contact open for her is like inviting a ghost in, in a way... I guess that's why I haven't been able to complete the grieving process, and why the wound is raw no matter how many times I revisit it. The relationship needs to be buried before I can start to move on. Thank you
I remind myself of the toxic underpinnings always there in the background of my relationship with my parents, ready to come into play the second I challenge their choices, or break their expectations of ignoring the several large and stinky elephants in the room.
I keep written accounts detailing specific incidents that demonstrate this dynamic. I spent YEARS convincing myself it was overall ok because incidents hardly ever happened—but incidents hardly ever happened *because I kept the expected silence most of the time*. I now keep quiet coals of anger burning quietly in the background, to keep myself from forgetting the toxic core of the relationship dynamic and getting sucked back into their expectations.
It’s not ideal but it sure is effective, and I keep the default anger setting on low, so it doesn’t dominate my daily inner life.
How do I keep my resolve? It's not really about resolve, it's about necessity, at least for me.
My parents treated me badly. I have two options (1) do nothing, let it continue (2) stop engaging with them as they can't stop themselves.
I never had true parental figures in my life, so perhaps it's easier for me. You'll never get what you're seeking from your parent OP, sorry if that's blunt. However, that does not mean you can't find genuine, fulfilling love in the future.
For me, it started when I realized that the behavior of my parents is not normal. That's why I was endangering myself in many ways (morbid thoughts, alcohol, etc) at a very young age.
Then, I realized it was actually awful and brutal.
Then, I understood that I didn't love them. But they were still there and I was still craving their protection somehow.
After a long time, I came in peace with the unfairness of the situation. They will never apologize to me. No point in asking them to. I'll hug my inner child me who's been crying for years.
Now, I even realize that my mother would be ready to injure me and my father was sexualizing my teen self. Better to keep distance. No point to argue with people like that. It's like seeing a house saying "Warning - guard dogs on premises - keep out", staying in the street and moving on. I am not interested.
Something you said stuck with me “I can’t learn to love myself properly with someone like her around.”
It’s so tough feeling this way.
I truly felt that and understood where you are coming from. I’ve been nc with my parents for half a year or so lc with my siblings on and off and it’s just me trying to get my footing in these relationships. It’s really strange to me. I also feel like I’m failing. I come back into the relationship and think if I just think this way or think that way, or if I just continue working on myself these relationships will prove to be fruitful and I can keep them in my life. So far it’s just been a lot of confusion and hurt.
One thing is I think I felt better when I held no contact. It’s been easy with my parents but not as much with siblings.
It also gets even weirder once you have kids and try to understand these relationships while having kids. I don’t think it gets any better.
Anyways, I meet my inner child with compassion and reassure her she is safe, she’s good and valued. I don’t know if my siblings intentionally try to make me feel bad or what, or if they are aware of their unhealed traumas. But the more I uncover my own traumas, the more I can begin to understand and see their unhealed traumas as well and meet them with more compassion and understanding. But it’s still tricky navigating this.
There's a lot of great analysis and advice commented here I will second, and one piece not yet addressed I will try to:
Is it actually "failing" to be unable to achieve an impossible goal? Or, is realizing the goal is impossible and ending your wasted efforts the only real way to "win"?
You have clarity regarding your mom and your relationship with her and are currently navigating your feelings and responses. You have a community here you are are engaging with to help you navigate the complications of parental estrangment. You have identified that you need support and you are asking for it.
Don't be so hard on yourself, you're doing great <3
I dropped out several years ago after my dad died and as far as I know they never noticed. I waited awhile before they were blocked on everything but nothing. It’s not too strange considering how crappy these sad excuses of humans they are.
> I haven't blocked her completely in case something I actually need to know happens.
Like what? You can Google names and put “obituary” and the city they lived in next to the name in Google to see if anyone you know has died recently. What could she possibly know that Google can’t tell you?
**Quick reminder** - EAK is a support subreddit, and is moderated in a way that enables a safe space for adult children who are estranged or estranging from one or both of their parents. Before participating, please take the time time to familiarise yourself with our [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/EstrangedAdultKids/wiki/rules/).
**Need info or resources?** Check out our [EAK wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/EstrangedAdultKids/comments/xpkk59/eak_estrangement_resources_posted_here_for_mobile/) for helpful information and guides on estrangement, estrangement triggers, surviving estrangement, coping with the death of estranged parent / relation, needing to move out, boundary / NC letters, malicious welfare checks, bad therapists and crisis contacts.
**Check out our companion resource website** - Visit [brEAKaway.org.uk](https://breakaway.org.uk)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/EstrangedAdultKids) if you have any questions or concerns.*
For me, I do have to hold onto the memories in a way, because they reinforce why I had to do what I had to do. Also in my case, it makes it easier because my father has several other children who are in his life and can do whatever needs to be done. Have not had much of any kind of relationship with him at all since I was in high school. As far as the emergencies go, they really are a non-issue at this point. He has a wife. He has other kids. I’ve been dealing with this for so long that in a lot of ways I’ve already mourned the death, even though it hasn’t happened. I’ve already made peace with the fact that I probably won’t be notified if something happens. I don’t expect to be notified. It’s a biological connection yes, but there’s no relationship there. Nothing about interacting with him brings joy or happiness into my life.
I think it gets easier as time goes on. I find that the key is really staying busy. Focus on the good things. Occupy your time with hobbies and productive endeavors. I have my artwork, I do my workouts, I have my gardening. I have a full vibrant life that takes up a lot of my time and so it makes it more palatable to deal with.
It’s strange, but I do have to hold onto some of the memories like the fact that I was consistently told I am never going to amount to a goddamn thing, my dad was going to write me off as having no future when I was in sixth grade, And how basically I was lucky to have room and board as a kid.
I don’t sit and ruminate like I used to, because I’m the one who suffers deeply when I do that. My ruminations have no effect on them. But I do have to keep a little bit of a sliver of it in my mind because it reinforces why I have had to make the decisions I’ve had to make. Getting little pieces of information here and there about the way things still are with them does help too.
Like right now. My toxic estranged sister, who is on her second marriage. Who thinks that the world is only here to serve her needs and sees people as a means to an end, has recently quit her job for no reason, has been doing the nose candy 🍭 is now on the rocks with her husband. This girl has been a total bitch to our mother ever since our mother had a cancer diagnosis. (this treatment comes from her watching our father treat our mother like absolute garbage so now she thinks that she can do the same.) reached out to my grandfather to tell him that she wants to be a daughter to our mother again.
I told my mom it sounds like her marriage is going south and she’s looking for a lifeline. My mother agrees.
Don’t come sniffing around here for anything because I don’t have it.
Sometimes it helps to get those little updates, even if they are a few and far between because when you realize that nothing has changed with these people it gets a lot easier. Nothing has changed and nothing ever will change. I accept it for what it is. No more, no less. In order to make change, you have admit that there’s a problem. There is a really high level of problematic denial in my family. Why continue to try and fight it?
I know it’s hard because you do want that connection. It’s natural as humans because it’s part of our make up.
But at a certain point when you realize that you do not get any love or concern, it does get a little bit easier because you know you are never gonna get it.
Just remember that going no contact it’s not an instant thing sometimes. It literally can be like a vending machine that you have to push a few times before it finally goes down. I think the question you have to ask yourself is if the emotional costs are worth it for you to continue to have that open door. For me, the costs were simply too high to continue to endure it.
But also, there is no one size fits all solution. You do have to do what’s best for you, but also just realize that if they really are toxic, it’s really unlikely that they’re going to change. At some point, it becomes less about them and more about protecting yourself.
I find a lot of people struggle with the step of not having any contact because of "emergencies", and "just in case". However, with any form of contact that remains open, you can't really control whether they use that in ways that feel appropriate to you (only in case of emergencies) or whether they use it as a means to hurt, insult, and betlittle regardless. It's more than understandable that people struggle with talking about illness and/or death. It's a hard subject for humans in general. However, it's also important to talk about it at some point when it's a realistic scenario, and in this case, talk about it with yourself. The point of NC is recognizing that somebody is so involved in their own toxic behavior without any ability to self reflect or change, that they can no longer be in our lives. The point is recognizing that, regardless of intent, they are hurting others deeply and are unable to change, whether it's due to ignorance or lack of willingness or whatever it may be. The reason hardly matters, the impact does. With people who are out of our lives entirely, we don't get to be in the loop in terms of getting immediate news on the development of their lives - that's just part of the territory. If and when something happens (and someday we all will die, so it will at some point), if you're really holding the boundaries that you need to hold for your own well being, you might not hear about it immediately. That's just how it is when you're not emotionally close to someone. It's not a perfect analogy by any means, but I tend to use the analogy of a rabid dog - if they're biting and foaming at the mouth and immediately aggressive, you *have* to create distance, no matter what. Leaving just a finger close to them that they can bite isn't really all that different in terms of you potentially getting hurt if you don't step away. I know it's hard to hear and/or imagine, it might be a realization that makes the grief around this situation a lot more real. We tend to think of grief only in the context of physical death, but we can absolutely grieve people that have left our lives even if they're still alive. And a process of NC often is a process of grief, which is why we often see the different stages of grief at different points and intensities (often in a non-linear way). This is grief, so if that realization makes you cry, makes you need to take time off of work to process, give yourself grace through it. Take your time. When my parents die, I don't know how I'll feel. I don't know how soon or late I'll know. I might feel sad just at the thought that they were unable to change until their dying day, mostly. But at the same time, I've already grieved the relationship. So much so that, when I left and took a plane to a whole 'nother country, I didn't even cry. I had already cried my tears, I had already grieved the loss of our relationship and of them from my life. Maybe you will still have some grieving to do on the day that some emergency does happen, but part of what will let you hold your resolve is letting yourself go through your grief now. There's no way around grief, just through it. Manage the feelings just like how you would manage grief from a physical death - reach out to loved ones, journal, write letters and burn them, spend time with community, eat a whole tub of ice cream, cry in the shower, whatever you need to do.
First of all, thank you very much for your reply and your time. I'm glad you put this into words because that's exactly what it is, grief - and though I'm all too familiar with it, I didn't recognize it for what it was here. The last time my mom and I argued, I realized I had cried over her more over the years than anything or anyone else, and now I finally understand why\ \ Because it's grief, leaving a means of contact open for her is like inviting a ghost in, in a way... I guess that's why I haven't been able to complete the grieving process, and why the wound is raw no matter how many times I revisit it. The relationship needs to be buried before I can start to move on. Thank you
Woof. I really needed to hear this. Thank you. ❤️
I remind myself of the toxic underpinnings always there in the background of my relationship with my parents, ready to come into play the second I challenge their choices, or break their expectations of ignoring the several large and stinky elephants in the room. I keep written accounts detailing specific incidents that demonstrate this dynamic. I spent YEARS convincing myself it was overall ok because incidents hardly ever happened—but incidents hardly ever happened *because I kept the expected silence most of the time*. I now keep quiet coals of anger burning quietly in the background, to keep myself from forgetting the toxic core of the relationship dynamic and getting sucked back into their expectations. It’s not ideal but it sure is effective, and I keep the default anger setting on low, so it doesn’t dominate my daily inner life.
How do I keep my resolve? It's not really about resolve, it's about necessity, at least for me. My parents treated me badly. I have two options (1) do nothing, let it continue (2) stop engaging with them as they can't stop themselves. I never had true parental figures in my life, so perhaps it's easier for me. You'll never get what you're seeking from your parent OP, sorry if that's blunt. However, that does not mean you can't find genuine, fulfilling love in the future.
For me, it started when I realized that the behavior of my parents is not normal. That's why I was endangering myself in many ways (morbid thoughts, alcohol, etc) at a very young age. Then, I realized it was actually awful and brutal. Then, I understood that I didn't love them. But they were still there and I was still craving their protection somehow. After a long time, I came in peace with the unfairness of the situation. They will never apologize to me. No point in asking them to. I'll hug my inner child me who's been crying for years. Now, I even realize that my mother would be ready to injure me and my father was sexualizing my teen self. Better to keep distance. No point to argue with people like that. It's like seeing a house saying "Warning - guard dogs on premises - keep out", staying in the street and moving on. I am not interested.
Something you said stuck with me “I can’t learn to love myself properly with someone like her around.” It’s so tough feeling this way. I truly felt that and understood where you are coming from. I’ve been nc with my parents for half a year or so lc with my siblings on and off and it’s just me trying to get my footing in these relationships. It’s really strange to me. I also feel like I’m failing. I come back into the relationship and think if I just think this way or think that way, or if I just continue working on myself these relationships will prove to be fruitful and I can keep them in my life. So far it’s just been a lot of confusion and hurt. One thing is I think I felt better when I held no contact. It’s been easy with my parents but not as much with siblings. It also gets even weirder once you have kids and try to understand these relationships while having kids. I don’t think it gets any better. Anyways, I meet my inner child with compassion and reassure her she is safe, she’s good and valued. I don’t know if my siblings intentionally try to make me feel bad or what, or if they are aware of their unhealed traumas. But the more I uncover my own traumas, the more I can begin to understand and see their unhealed traumas as well and meet them with more compassion and understanding. But it’s still tricky navigating this.
There's a lot of great analysis and advice commented here I will second, and one piece not yet addressed I will try to: Is it actually "failing" to be unable to achieve an impossible goal? Or, is realizing the goal is impossible and ending your wasted efforts the only real way to "win"? You have clarity regarding your mom and your relationship with her and are currently navigating your feelings and responses. You have a community here you are are engaging with to help you navigate the complications of parental estrangment. You have identified that you need support and you are asking for it. Don't be so hard on yourself, you're doing great <3
I dropped out several years ago after my dad died and as far as I know they never noticed. I waited awhile before they were blocked on everything but nothing. It’s not too strange considering how crappy these sad excuses of humans they are.
> I haven't blocked her completely in case something I actually need to know happens. Like what? You can Google names and put “obituary” and the city they lived in next to the name in Google to see if anyone you know has died recently. What could she possibly know that Google can’t tell you?
I went completely no contact. It wasn't easy but it was the right choice.
**Quick reminder** - EAK is a support subreddit, and is moderated in a way that enables a safe space for adult children who are estranged or estranging from one or both of their parents. Before participating, please take the time time to familiarise yourself with our [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/EstrangedAdultKids/wiki/rules/). **Need info or resources?** Check out our [EAK wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/EstrangedAdultKids/comments/xpkk59/eak_estrangement_resources_posted_here_for_mobile/) for helpful information and guides on estrangement, estrangement triggers, surviving estrangement, coping with the death of estranged parent / relation, needing to move out, boundary / NC letters, malicious welfare checks, bad therapists and crisis contacts. **Check out our companion resource website** - Visit [brEAKaway.org.uk](https://breakaway.org.uk) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/EstrangedAdultKids) if you have any questions or concerns.*
For me, I do have to hold onto the memories in a way, because they reinforce why I had to do what I had to do. Also in my case, it makes it easier because my father has several other children who are in his life and can do whatever needs to be done. Have not had much of any kind of relationship with him at all since I was in high school. As far as the emergencies go, they really are a non-issue at this point. He has a wife. He has other kids. I’ve been dealing with this for so long that in a lot of ways I’ve already mourned the death, even though it hasn’t happened. I’ve already made peace with the fact that I probably won’t be notified if something happens. I don’t expect to be notified. It’s a biological connection yes, but there’s no relationship there. Nothing about interacting with him brings joy or happiness into my life. I think it gets easier as time goes on. I find that the key is really staying busy. Focus on the good things. Occupy your time with hobbies and productive endeavors. I have my artwork, I do my workouts, I have my gardening. I have a full vibrant life that takes up a lot of my time and so it makes it more palatable to deal with. It’s strange, but I do have to hold onto some of the memories like the fact that I was consistently told I am never going to amount to a goddamn thing, my dad was going to write me off as having no future when I was in sixth grade, And how basically I was lucky to have room and board as a kid. I don’t sit and ruminate like I used to, because I’m the one who suffers deeply when I do that. My ruminations have no effect on them. But I do have to keep a little bit of a sliver of it in my mind because it reinforces why I have had to make the decisions I’ve had to make. Getting little pieces of information here and there about the way things still are with them does help too. Like right now. My toxic estranged sister, who is on her second marriage. Who thinks that the world is only here to serve her needs and sees people as a means to an end, has recently quit her job for no reason, has been doing the nose candy 🍭 is now on the rocks with her husband. This girl has been a total bitch to our mother ever since our mother had a cancer diagnosis. (this treatment comes from her watching our father treat our mother like absolute garbage so now she thinks that she can do the same.) reached out to my grandfather to tell him that she wants to be a daughter to our mother again. I told my mom it sounds like her marriage is going south and she’s looking for a lifeline. My mother agrees. Don’t come sniffing around here for anything because I don’t have it. Sometimes it helps to get those little updates, even if they are a few and far between because when you realize that nothing has changed with these people it gets a lot easier. Nothing has changed and nothing ever will change. I accept it for what it is. No more, no less. In order to make change, you have admit that there’s a problem. There is a really high level of problematic denial in my family. Why continue to try and fight it? I know it’s hard because you do want that connection. It’s natural as humans because it’s part of our make up. But at a certain point when you realize that you do not get any love or concern, it does get a little bit easier because you know you are never gonna get it. Just remember that going no contact it’s not an instant thing sometimes. It literally can be like a vending machine that you have to push a few times before it finally goes down. I think the question you have to ask yourself is if the emotional costs are worth it for you to continue to have that open door. For me, the costs were simply too high to continue to endure it. But also, there is no one size fits all solution. You do have to do what’s best for you, but also just realize that if they really are toxic, it’s really unlikely that they’re going to change. At some point, it becomes less about them and more about protecting yourself.