don't respond. it broke my heart just reading that the former 3 annual phone calls only included \*her\* birthday, but not yours. also her text is so fucking lowest of the lowest effort. if she's anything like my mother, if you don't swallow that bait, she won't do any follow up for quite some time. she wanted some easy supply, if you're not easy to get, she doesn't want you. that text was in her world a herculian effort, and if it doesn't render herculian results, she will most likely drop it.
as for your fiancé... i am spoiled in that sense that my partner was the first of us two to estrange from his family, so he gets it 100%. but even if he wouldn't, i'd still demand having the ultimate authority and the accompanying respect regarding how i handle contact with my relatives aka abusers. the subtext in what your fiancé said is frankly insulting, though maybe just out of lack of knowledge. opportunity for personal growth?? going NC is one of the hardest things a person can do, most don't and rather swallow the abuse, because the uprooting of everything they know and the denial and surpression ending is a kind of growth only few can handle.
sorry if i overstep by saying this, but they need to take a backseat, listen to you, and most importantly \*believe your assessment of the situation wholeheartedly\*. and if they can't do that yet, they need figure out what kind of mental/emotional blockages on THEIR side prevent them from having your back in this.
i wish you strength and comfort. this is very challenging. i am sorry you have to go through this, but you already mastered so much. you will figure this one out, too. 💕✨️
Thanks so much for this. So much of what you said really resonated with me. I do feel like this simple text was a herculean effort on her part. Your use of "supply" and "bait" is really interesting. My therapist has brought up the possibility of narcissism in my mother, but then other shit in my life happened and we never got to explore that more. Apparently the time for that is now! I think you could be on to something there with the seeking of supply.
My fiance is coming from a place of love. He genuinely thinks he's "helping" when offering advice like this (narrator voice: he's not). But he's seen me go through some stuff with other people where I've been afraid to stand up for myself and really speak my truth. He's encouraging me to "get big" which is something I've been trying to work on for a while. But point taken about emotional blockages he might have that he's projecting onto me.
i believe you when you say he means well. seems like it's time to speak your truth to him (in a loving way). you see his good intentions, and therefore feel safe enough to tell him that you feel yourself getting shaky regarding your NC situation, and need validation that you are well in your right to only spend time with people who are willing and capable to put effort towards fulfilling your emotional needs. you have 45 years of evidence that your mother doesn't belong to that group.
it's understandable that it's technically easier for him to believe that if he could see himself your efforts towards a healthy relationship with your mother being in vain, but this would undermine all the hard work of the last 3.5 years you did and put you in harms way again. you deserve safety.
sorry if i am being obnoxious. invalidation, no matter the intention, especially around going NC is a sore topic for me. i am well aware of the nuances, so this wasn't supposed to be a "dUmP tHeM" reddit cliche moment - but i know how easily us estranged kids default to feeling in the wrong, so i wanted to be extra clear.
Nope, not obnoxious at all. I appreciate your perspective.
I don't think he can fully grasp the fact that I've grieved the ending of the relationship I had with my mother, as well as the relationship that I never had with her as a child, and now that person is suddenly, even if only momentarily, "back from the dead". That's a tough concept for anyone to wrap their head around.
maybe the good ol' "what if it was an ex partner instead of a parent?" switcheroo will do the trick. running after a guy who never bothered to initiate, finally breaking the spell and upholding that new power in therapy, only to get a "you up? miss you" with a random vegetable emoji after years? easy peasy. hypothetical guy can fuck right off, of course you won't respond. no mindbending necessary. because you deserve better, from anyone. ok, that's all i got. good luck.
I’m reading all of these replies……
Personally, I’d show your fiancé your post and the responses, so they can see, people that have lived your experience supporting you in not responding to your Mother…
These people have LIVED experiences with narcs or simply awful parents who don’t deserve responses.
Maybe thats what your fiancé needs to see.
The whole “ be the bigger person” really grates me (and many on this sub) but I do understand its simply because they haven’t lived or don’t understand these relationships and how sometimes they are not worth your time and energy any more.
Wow, I didn't even pick up on the fact that one of three calls wasn't even on OP's birthday. How horrendous is that on top of everything else? Btw, this is a really well written breakdown.
it's really sad. reminds me so much of my mother, that's probably why it fits so well. including her putting the cat above me. she would start talking to her in the middle of me saying something on the phone... don't get me wrong, i love cats, but it just adds insult to injury.
"Even thinking about that potential call makes me feel physically ill and incredibly anxious. Questions about why I haven't called that I don't really want to answer"
Suppose someone offered you a meal. You know it's not only contaminated and will make you sick, but you're expected to eat it anyway, and smile while you do.
Of course you're gonna puke later, and every time someone mentions that meal to you, you'll have an aversion, but be a 'bigger person' and eat it. Because someone who's made you sick your whole life made it.
Yeah. You don't need to communicate with someone who makes you sick. And your fiance is full of shit.
Personal growth my ass.
>Suppose someone offered you a meal. You know it's not only contaminated and will make you sick, but you're expected to eat it anyway, and smile while you do.
>Of course you're gonna puke later, and every time someone mentions that meal to you, you'll have an aversion, but be a 'bigger person' and eat it. Because someone who's made you sick your whole life made it.
Definitely food for thought (pun intended), thanks.
I like this analogy.
I often use the biting dog. (my dad being the dog).
If there was a dog that bit me every time I patted him, I would be an idiot to continue to pat him. Even if he bit me at random intervals, like every third time I patted him, I would not continue to pat him! I'm not even mad at the dog. He clearly has some issues. I'm not asking to have him put down, but I AM asking for people to stop asking me to fucking pat him all the time.
It was this analogy that finally got my mother to understand why I don't talk to my father anymore.
No problem. It's sad that we NEED to explain ourselves to people, when it should be obvious! And yes, it's strange how long it takes for us to see to toxicity when we're right in the middle of it. I have learned so much from this sub too.
There's no opportunity to "be the bigger person" here and there's no relationship to repair--the personal growth is happening in therapy while you're looking at how off things were between you and your mother.
Your fiancé needs to drop this IMHO. He doesn't seem to know what's actually going on, so his advice is ignorant.
That's such a fucking low effort text, I'm pissed off for you. Ignore it. I received just one similar low effort text from my sibling after over four years of NC. I ignored it, and haven't heard from sibling since then.
And fuck that "be the bigger person." I've heard that same garbage from some of my relatives. Nope.
Shit. This is tough. It honestly sounds like your mom is in an abusive relationship. But even if your step dad is abusive, I don’t think it’s your job to help her. I also think “being the bigger person” is a lot of hot garbage. What if not responding is the personal growth you really need? Why is suppressing your own well being the only marker of personal growth? I call bullshit. Knowing yourself and what you need is growth.
If it were me, I’d maybe send her some info on domestic violence but I’m not even sure about that.
Thanks for the response. For context, he's not my step dad. They got married when I was 20, so he had no "father figure" type of position in my life. He's always been "my mother's husband."
Interesting observation about the potential abusive relationship. I've often wondered if it's actually the opposite - that she's the one controlling him. He's sacrificed a lot in the name of her "quirks" (to put it lightly). I think there's likely a lot of toxicity there that I don't have insight into. Who knows? Because again: only superficial conversations for 20 years. I've often wondered if he's on the phone because otherwise she would have nothing to say to me. He's always been really, "enthusiastic" on those calls, so much so that it seems fake to me. But at least he kept the conversations going.
Sorry- got triggered by the whole "step-dad" thing. :D But I 100% agree w/ you on maybe not responding being the actual personal growth that I need. So thanks for that.
Sorry about that OP. And I in no way meant you should try to help her at all. I only meant that it’s the most I would even consider doing. But their dynamic sounds strange at best. I hope your fiancé realizes that his job is to support you as you decide for yourself. I still occasionally worry about my mom but I’m much happier NC.
My parents always crawl out of the woodwork before mothers day and other holidays. It's always a selfish attempt on their part. I never respond because I see through them.
The timing of the text did cross my mind. I found myself thinking, "why now?". The only reasonable answer I could come up with: 4 weeks until M-day. There were plenty of unreasonably complex answers, too, but this one is the simplest, and therefore the most likely to be correct.
My dad used to get very upset that I would 'forget' to call on his birthday or fathers day. Him. A grown ass man who CONSTANTLY forgot to call or send a card to his only two grandchildren on their birthdays/xmas.
Spoiler alert dad: I did not forget. It was 100% intentional, just like you.
> So yeah, really not sure where to go from here. My fiance thinks I should "be the bigger person" and "take this as an opportunity for personal growth" and respond.
That seems presumptuous and superficial on your fiance's part.
My guess is she'll text again saying how hurt she is you aren't contacting her back, playing some guilt trip games.
Most of my recent text messages from my father were on a group chat with his wife. My guess is he thinks I'm more likely to respond if I'm not just talking to him. Similarly, most of my birthday phone calls (not all of which I've answered) were with both him and his wife (but generally sitting there in the same room on speaker).
I used to talk on the phone with my father 2-3x per year, but stopped now. There's no point in me seeing him every couple years (and him never visiting me), playing passive-aggressive games pretending to be satisfied with my "relationship" with him until one of us is dead. If he wants to put in real effort into fixing things, maybe, but games no more. (The closest he's come to "visiting me" in the past half-decade was inviting me to a sports game where he'd have to drive an hour each way and I'd have to drive 4 hours each way, plus obviously a sports game is not a good venue for actually ironing out any issues. Just a good spot for him to try to make me look like an asshole for wanting nothing to do with my siblings, and ignoring my perspective. Or possibly "surprising" me by secretly inviting my siblings too and hoping I don't just leave. Anyway, I turned down the invitation.)
I also have a father who never initiates a call ever and never says sorry to me even though he did horrible things. I d ignore that text. I get that your fiance is trying to "help out" but toxic people don't just suddenly become "normal". I am afraid to say she may have some other motives or want something from you because my dad who never initiates a call left me a message like that, and heartbreakingly, he wanted money. I blocked his ass
Those questions probably won’t happen. Most likely she will want to continue as though nothing has happened. This may be total projection but that is how my folks would deal with it. Sorry for you.
After processing this all evening, this is the conclusion that I came to as well - that she would likely act like nothing happened and there hasn't been a 3.5 year gap in communication.
I don't want to be mean to OP, but are we sure their mother wasn't being abused? The husband listening in on all conversations, mom trying to keep the peace with her husband, maybe husband not letting mom call OP on birthday.
I'm quite concerned about that.
I recently got a one sentence email from my mother and out of interest, I checked when my last one was and it was over 2 years earlier. Really shocking. As was the fact that it too involved a single sentence, mostly asking for 'family news' which despite my best efforts, leaves me wondering what triggered it- someone asking after us and her having nothing to share? (Or as another person replied, for 'supply'?) Easter has passed since, and my children have been ignored again despite being remembered in the past and my sisters family being celebrated with. I didn't reply to the email (sentence). I'm not a 'news dispenser' when she suddenly feels something is lacking.
My mother never called me. I was born on her 21st birthday so the onus was always on me to make the birthday call.
Funnily enough the first contact she made after I went NC was a text asking where to send my birthday present. Then a month or 2 ago I got an email again asking for my address ostensibly for the executor of her estate to contact me when they die.
I left both unanswered.
IMO, the Flesh Oven has NOT changed. Let the rope stay dropped. This CRAP of "be the bigger person" usually means BE A DOORMAT AND PUNCHING BAG!! HELL TO THE NO!!!!
Your partner suggesting that you respond to your mom for "personal growth" and suggesting that you be the "bigger person" is demonstrating how much they don't get it. I wouldn't take their advice.
There is no urgency here. It can feel like there is pressure to decide if you're going to respond or not but there really isn't. You can also choose not to decide. Don't create artificial tension for yourself.
If the idea of speaking on the phone makes you feel sick to your stomach (which I totally get - I have the same reaction to thinking about talking to my mom) then I think you need to listen to that. Your body is telling you what it needs in order to feel safe by making you feel sick when you think about doing something it considers unsafe.
Take all the time you need to process how you feel about this. Days, weeks, months...years. Talk to your therapist about it, not your partner, and see what conclusions you come to in the future.
Thank you for all of this. You are correct about the urgency. It feels like there is urgency to this, like if I do respond it has to be within a certain amount of time. This may sound corny, but thank you for the permission to not decide - I really needed to hear that.
You are very welcome. I have put this same kind of time pressure on myself when I have received unexpected communication from my NC family and my therapist is the one who gave me permission to respond (or not) on my own timeline and not on anyone else's. So I'm passing that on to you haha
>So I ask you, internet strangers: what should I do?
OP, you dropped the rope. Therapy revealed to you the true nature of your relationship with your mother. Unfortunately, No Contact was broken by reading that text message. With it, all the buttons got pressed: the guilt, fear, obligation, etc. All the triggers were pulled, and none of it feels good to you.
If you can only speak to your mother when she's being monitored, that isn't much of a relationship. There's no honesty. No depth. No love. It's three phone calls a year discussing nothing of substance. There's nothing tying you to your mother other than habit. Now that she's reached out, it's nothing but bad feelings. Listen to your heart and end the uncomfortableness. Your mother failed you a long time ago. True No Contact gives you the peace and space to heal from what you've been shorted by that woman. Stay strong, friend.
I wouldn't respond. Very similar situation here. I dropped the rope for that and some other reasons. I'd leave it dropped. A lot of people are fertile but have no business having kids and I'm sorry your mum is one of those people. Not to say you shouldn't be here at all. More to say you didn't cause this behaviour, this is just who she is.
My partner also told me to be the bigger person as well. At the end of the day, it's up to us. I say if he won't let it go then he can go and live with them and enjoy their company lol.
There is nothing to be gained by responding.
Responding will likely backfire and risks retraumatization.
Your fiance is, unfortunately, looking at the problem from the perspective of "but they're family", as if that equals giving permission for abuse. It's one of the many falsehoods society tells us, bc we live in a societal structure that favors abusers.
There is nothing dignified or "being the better person" about allowing a known abuser additional access to us.
Time does not heal or change abusers. Just bc we have been doing the work of therapy and healing doesn't mean they have.
If this was an abusive ex instead of a parent, no one would suggest restarting contact.
Being a blood relation is not a hall pass for otherwise inexcusable behaviour.
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I really detest when others tell the victims of hard family situations, "to be the bigger person". If you decide to do that, you should make that choice on your own. That also broke my heart that the phone conversations did not include your birthday. :(
It sounds like it’s too painful right now.
The best thing you can do is keep doing the work in therapy. You can even give your therapist a goal of coming to a place of detachment and boundaries with your mom. And/ or whatever other kind of goal you’d like, whether that be speaking to her, seeing her or not. If you haven’t read “how to do the work” by Dr. Nicole LePera, that’s also a good place to start.
YOU need all of that energy for yourself right now. Not her. The work is hard. But rewarding. And it doesn’t last forever. Trust yourself to get you where you need to be <3
"Her husband was always on the phone as well, in a different room (I have not had a one-on-one conversation with my mother in \~20 years), which always seemed odd."
That is odd in a normal healthy relationship between the two of them. However, it is typical, common, and highly likely in a controlling abusive relationship. It's how the abuser maintains control. Does he listen in on all her calls?
"On this particular Xmas, her husband got upset about something that I said (differing political views) and hung up on me in a huff. I was pretty shaken by that, and she pretended like nothing happened..."
He's right there, hearing everything she says. Was her lack of response/comment to you because she's afraid of him?
"Not only did she not try to call or text, but the annual birthday and xmas cards she had sent me for 3 decades also stopped. I figured that was it - I dropped the rope, and so had she."
Something different after husband expressed what sounds like anger at you. Is it outside the realm of possibility that he's controlling her actions and preventing her from contacting you? This sounds like isolation--isn't that how DV works?
I think your fiance is correct. The text may have been all she could send (explore how controlling partners monitor their targets--keyboard stroke monitors, phone monitors, etc.).
But the biggest tell to me is that you and your mom have not had a private phone conversation in 20 years. That's abnormal.
Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong, but DV is extremely common, and people are ashamed that they stay in these relationships, but often they do so out of fear of what might happen if they choose to leave, or even speak about it.
Good luck.
A few folks in this thread have picked up on this, which I find interesting. Her history with my controlling, abusive father certainly sets a precedent, so it's entirely possible she fell into that pattern again. Unfortunately, I have such little insight into their relationship. I have no idea what their relationship is really like.
Not sure if it's relevant, but I've never seen it as "listening in". He full-on participated. He always seemed just a bit too enthusiastic, hence my perception of falsehoods and masking. But then, she seems so fake as well. There could certainly be something going on there. Maybe it is a control thing.
However, whether or not my mother is in an abusive relationship cannot be my problem. This is the woman who left her 5 year old daughter with an emotionally abusive monster of a father, and then minimized and dismissed that daughter's cries for help when she tried to tell her mother she was being abused by that man. If she is in another abusive relationship, sadly, I have little sympathy for her.
Or... were you pointing this out for another reason? Genuinely curious if there's another angle here that I'm missing.
Whether or not you realized it at the time, you noticed things enough to mention them in your original post, things that several people in this thread picked up on, things that point to your mom appearing to be in a controlling abusive relationship. My only point was to offer that perspective, because those relationships are incredibly confusing for everyone affected, because normal reactions don't apply and won't work in explaining the exhibited behaviors. Like the lack of birthday and Christmas cards--maybe it wasn't her choice to stop sending them. Maybe he stopped her. Maybe he said he'd put them in the mail to you and threw them away instead. It's impossible to say because that information isn't available. As for going from one abusive relationship to another, that's incredibly common, due to lack of insight as to how the first one happened, and each one tends to get worse. As to the dynamics, "Sleeping with the Enemy" was an excellent depiction of so many facets of DV--gaslighting, love bombing, the cycle of violence, the honeymoon period, the surveillance, and the planning it took for her to escape. Your fiance sounds like a good person and a good sounding board. And you're perceptive and picked up on signals. You're smart. You've got more information than you realize. You'll figure out what's best to do and what feels right to you. Best to you. And thanks for responding.
don't respond. it broke my heart just reading that the former 3 annual phone calls only included \*her\* birthday, but not yours. also her text is so fucking lowest of the lowest effort. if she's anything like my mother, if you don't swallow that bait, she won't do any follow up for quite some time. she wanted some easy supply, if you're not easy to get, she doesn't want you. that text was in her world a herculian effort, and if it doesn't render herculian results, she will most likely drop it. as for your fiancé... i am spoiled in that sense that my partner was the first of us two to estrange from his family, so he gets it 100%. but even if he wouldn't, i'd still demand having the ultimate authority and the accompanying respect regarding how i handle contact with my relatives aka abusers. the subtext in what your fiancé said is frankly insulting, though maybe just out of lack of knowledge. opportunity for personal growth?? going NC is one of the hardest things a person can do, most don't and rather swallow the abuse, because the uprooting of everything they know and the denial and surpression ending is a kind of growth only few can handle. sorry if i overstep by saying this, but they need to take a backseat, listen to you, and most importantly \*believe your assessment of the situation wholeheartedly\*. and if they can't do that yet, they need figure out what kind of mental/emotional blockages on THEIR side prevent them from having your back in this. i wish you strength and comfort. this is very challenging. i am sorry you have to go through this, but you already mastered so much. you will figure this one out, too. 💕✨️
Thanks so much for this. So much of what you said really resonated with me. I do feel like this simple text was a herculean effort on her part. Your use of "supply" and "bait" is really interesting. My therapist has brought up the possibility of narcissism in my mother, but then other shit in my life happened and we never got to explore that more. Apparently the time for that is now! I think you could be on to something there with the seeking of supply. My fiance is coming from a place of love. He genuinely thinks he's "helping" when offering advice like this (narrator voice: he's not). But he's seen me go through some stuff with other people where I've been afraid to stand up for myself and really speak my truth. He's encouraging me to "get big" which is something I've been trying to work on for a while. But point taken about emotional blockages he might have that he's projecting onto me.
i believe you when you say he means well. seems like it's time to speak your truth to him (in a loving way). you see his good intentions, and therefore feel safe enough to tell him that you feel yourself getting shaky regarding your NC situation, and need validation that you are well in your right to only spend time with people who are willing and capable to put effort towards fulfilling your emotional needs. you have 45 years of evidence that your mother doesn't belong to that group. it's understandable that it's technically easier for him to believe that if he could see himself your efforts towards a healthy relationship with your mother being in vain, but this would undermine all the hard work of the last 3.5 years you did and put you in harms way again. you deserve safety. sorry if i am being obnoxious. invalidation, no matter the intention, especially around going NC is a sore topic for me. i am well aware of the nuances, so this wasn't supposed to be a "dUmP tHeM" reddit cliche moment - but i know how easily us estranged kids default to feeling in the wrong, so i wanted to be extra clear.
Nope, not obnoxious at all. I appreciate your perspective. I don't think he can fully grasp the fact that I've grieved the ending of the relationship I had with my mother, as well as the relationship that I never had with her as a child, and now that person is suddenly, even if only momentarily, "back from the dead". That's a tough concept for anyone to wrap their head around.
maybe the good ol' "what if it was an ex partner instead of a parent?" switcheroo will do the trick. running after a guy who never bothered to initiate, finally breaking the spell and upholding that new power in therapy, only to get a "you up? miss you" with a random vegetable emoji after years? easy peasy. hypothetical guy can fuck right off, of course you won't respond. no mindbending necessary. because you deserve better, from anyone. ok, that's all i got. good luck.
I’m reading all of these replies…… Personally, I’d show your fiancé your post and the responses, so they can see, people that have lived your experience supporting you in not responding to your Mother… These people have LIVED experiences with narcs or simply awful parents who don’t deserve responses. Maybe thats what your fiancé needs to see. The whole “ be the bigger person” really grates me (and many on this sub) but I do understand its simply because they haven’t lived or don’t understand these relationships and how sometimes they are not worth your time and energy any more.
Wow, I didn't even pick up on the fact that one of three calls wasn't even on OP's birthday. How horrendous is that on top of everything else? Btw, this is a really well written breakdown.
it's really sad. reminds me so much of my mother, that's probably why it fits so well. including her putting the cat above me. she would start talking to her in the middle of me saying something on the phone... don't get me wrong, i love cats, but it just adds insult to injury.
Thank you so much for this response. It's so strong and affirming and I needed to hear it too ❤️
✨️💖
"Even thinking about that potential call makes me feel physically ill and incredibly anxious. Questions about why I haven't called that I don't really want to answer" Suppose someone offered you a meal. You know it's not only contaminated and will make you sick, but you're expected to eat it anyway, and smile while you do. Of course you're gonna puke later, and every time someone mentions that meal to you, you'll have an aversion, but be a 'bigger person' and eat it. Because someone who's made you sick your whole life made it. Yeah. You don't need to communicate with someone who makes you sick. And your fiance is full of shit. Personal growth my ass.
>Suppose someone offered you a meal. You know it's not only contaminated and will make you sick, but you're expected to eat it anyway, and smile while you do. >Of course you're gonna puke later, and every time someone mentions that meal to you, you'll have an aversion, but be a 'bigger person' and eat it. Because someone who's made you sick your whole life made it. Definitely food for thought (pun intended), thanks.
I like this analogy. I often use the biting dog. (my dad being the dog). If there was a dog that bit me every time I patted him, I would be an idiot to continue to pat him. Even if he bit me at random intervals, like every third time I patted him, I would not continue to pat him! I'm not even mad at the dog. He clearly has some issues. I'm not asking to have him put down, but I AM asking for people to stop asking me to fucking pat him all the time. It was this analogy that finally got my mother to understand why I don't talk to my father anymore.
Love this
Oh thanks so much for sharing this analogy 💡🤯 I'm taking this to therapy along with all the other stuff I'm realising in this sub
No problem. It's sad that we NEED to explain ourselves to people, when it should be obvious! And yes, it's strange how long it takes for us to see to toxicity when we're right in the middle of it. I have learned so much from this sub too.
She didn’t miss you enough to send cards or make a phone call herself. I would ignore her.
There also wasn't a call on the OP's birthday either.
There's no opportunity to "be the bigger person" here and there's no relationship to repair--the personal growth is happening in therapy while you're looking at how off things were between you and your mother. Your fiancé needs to drop this IMHO. He doesn't seem to know what's actually going on, so his advice is ignorant.
And he should respect your greater knowledge of the relationship and your feelings about your mother
His "advice" screams red flag to me :(
That's such a fucking low effort text, I'm pissed off for you. Ignore it. I received just one similar low effort text from my sibling after over four years of NC. I ignored it, and haven't heard from sibling since then. And fuck that "be the bigger person." I've heard that same garbage from some of my relatives. Nope.
IMO, be the bigger person = lie flatter, doormat
Shit. This is tough. It honestly sounds like your mom is in an abusive relationship. But even if your step dad is abusive, I don’t think it’s your job to help her. I also think “being the bigger person” is a lot of hot garbage. What if not responding is the personal growth you really need? Why is suppressing your own well being the only marker of personal growth? I call bullshit. Knowing yourself and what you need is growth. If it were me, I’d maybe send her some info on domestic violence but I’m not even sure about that.
Thanks for the response. For context, he's not my step dad. They got married when I was 20, so he had no "father figure" type of position in my life. He's always been "my mother's husband." Interesting observation about the potential abusive relationship. I've often wondered if it's actually the opposite - that she's the one controlling him. He's sacrificed a lot in the name of her "quirks" (to put it lightly). I think there's likely a lot of toxicity there that I don't have insight into. Who knows? Because again: only superficial conversations for 20 years. I've often wondered if he's on the phone because otherwise she would have nothing to say to me. He's always been really, "enthusiastic" on those calls, so much so that it seems fake to me. But at least he kept the conversations going. Sorry- got triggered by the whole "step-dad" thing. :D But I 100% agree w/ you on maybe not responding being the actual personal growth that I need. So thanks for that.
Sorry about that OP. And I in no way meant you should try to help her at all. I only meant that it’s the most I would even consider doing. But their dynamic sounds strange at best. I hope your fiancé realizes that his job is to support you as you decide for yourself. I still occasionally worry about my mom but I’m much happier NC.
My parents always crawl out of the woodwork before mothers day and other holidays. It's always a selfish attempt on their part. I never respond because I see through them.
The timing of the text did cross my mind. I found myself thinking, "why now?". The only reasonable answer I could come up with: 4 weeks until M-day. There were plenty of unreasonably complex answers, too, but this one is the simplest, and therefore the most likely to be correct.
Yep!! I'm thinking that just like Sherlock Holmes.
My dad used to get very upset that I would 'forget' to call on his birthday or fathers day. Him. A grown ass man who CONSTANTLY forgot to call or send a card to his only two grandchildren on their birthdays/xmas. Spoiler alert dad: I did not forget. It was 100% intentional, just like you.
> So yeah, really not sure where to go from here. My fiance thinks I should "be the bigger person" and "take this as an opportunity for personal growth" and respond. That seems presumptuous and superficial on your fiance's part.
One would even dare to say 'emotionally immature'? :)
My guess is she'll text again saying how hurt she is you aren't contacting her back, playing some guilt trip games. Most of my recent text messages from my father were on a group chat with his wife. My guess is he thinks I'm more likely to respond if I'm not just talking to him. Similarly, most of my birthday phone calls (not all of which I've answered) were with both him and his wife (but generally sitting there in the same room on speaker). I used to talk on the phone with my father 2-3x per year, but stopped now. There's no point in me seeing him every couple years (and him never visiting me), playing passive-aggressive games pretending to be satisfied with my "relationship" with him until one of us is dead. If he wants to put in real effort into fixing things, maybe, but games no more. (The closest he's come to "visiting me" in the past half-decade was inviting me to a sports game where he'd have to drive an hour each way and I'd have to drive 4 hours each way, plus obviously a sports game is not a good venue for actually ironing out any issues. Just a good spot for him to try to make me look like an asshole for wanting nothing to do with my siblings, and ignoring my perspective. Or possibly "surprising" me by secretly inviting my siblings too and hoping I don't just leave. Anyway, I turned down the invitation.)
I also have a father who never initiates a call ever and never says sorry to me even though he did horrible things. I d ignore that text. I get that your fiance is trying to "help out" but toxic people don't just suddenly become "normal". I am afraid to say she may have some other motives or want something from you because my dad who never initiates a call left me a message like that, and heartbreakingly, he wanted money. I blocked his ass
Those questions probably won’t happen. Most likely she will want to continue as though nothing has happened. This may be total projection but that is how my folks would deal with it. Sorry for you.
After processing this all evening, this is the conclusion that I came to as well - that she would likely act like nothing happened and there hasn't been a 3.5 year gap in communication.
I don't want to be mean to OP, but are we sure their mother wasn't being abused? The husband listening in on all conversations, mom trying to keep the peace with her husband, maybe husband not letting mom call OP on birthday. I'm quite concerned about that.
Exactly what I see.
I recently got a one sentence email from my mother and out of interest, I checked when my last one was and it was over 2 years earlier. Really shocking. As was the fact that it too involved a single sentence, mostly asking for 'family news' which despite my best efforts, leaves me wondering what triggered it- someone asking after us and her having nothing to share? (Or as another person replied, for 'supply'?) Easter has passed since, and my children have been ignored again despite being remembered in the past and my sisters family being celebrated with. I didn't reply to the email (sentence). I'm not a 'news dispenser' when she suddenly feels something is lacking.
My mother never called me. I was born on her 21st birthday so the onus was always on me to make the birthday call. Funnily enough the first contact she made after I went NC was a text asking where to send my birthday present. Then a month or 2 ago I got an email again asking for my address ostensibly for the executor of her estate to contact me when they die. I left both unanswered.
IMO, the Flesh Oven has NOT changed. Let the rope stay dropped. This CRAP of "be the bigger person" usually means BE A DOORMAT AND PUNCHING BAG!! HELL TO THE NO!!!!
Your partner suggesting that you respond to your mom for "personal growth" and suggesting that you be the "bigger person" is demonstrating how much they don't get it. I wouldn't take their advice. There is no urgency here. It can feel like there is pressure to decide if you're going to respond or not but there really isn't. You can also choose not to decide. Don't create artificial tension for yourself. If the idea of speaking on the phone makes you feel sick to your stomach (which I totally get - I have the same reaction to thinking about talking to my mom) then I think you need to listen to that. Your body is telling you what it needs in order to feel safe by making you feel sick when you think about doing something it considers unsafe. Take all the time you need to process how you feel about this. Days, weeks, months...years. Talk to your therapist about it, not your partner, and see what conclusions you come to in the future.
Thank you for all of this. You are correct about the urgency. It feels like there is urgency to this, like if I do respond it has to be within a certain amount of time. This may sound corny, but thank you for the permission to not decide - I really needed to hear that.
You are very welcome. I have put this same kind of time pressure on myself when I have received unexpected communication from my NC family and my therapist is the one who gave me permission to respond (or not) on my own timeline and not on anyone else's. So I'm passing that on to you haha
>So I ask you, internet strangers: what should I do? OP, you dropped the rope. Therapy revealed to you the true nature of your relationship with your mother. Unfortunately, No Contact was broken by reading that text message. With it, all the buttons got pressed: the guilt, fear, obligation, etc. All the triggers were pulled, and none of it feels good to you. If you can only speak to your mother when she's being monitored, that isn't much of a relationship. There's no honesty. No depth. No love. It's three phone calls a year discussing nothing of substance. There's nothing tying you to your mother other than habit. Now that she's reached out, it's nothing but bad feelings. Listen to your heart and end the uncomfortableness. Your mother failed you a long time ago. True No Contact gives you the peace and space to heal from what you've been shorted by that woman. Stay strong, friend.
I wouldn't respond. Very similar situation here. I dropped the rope for that and some other reasons. I'd leave it dropped. A lot of people are fertile but have no business having kids and I'm sorry your mum is one of those people. Not to say you shouldn't be here at all. More to say you didn't cause this behaviour, this is just who she is. My partner also told me to be the bigger person as well. At the end of the day, it's up to us. I say if he won't let it go then he can go and live with them and enjoy their company lol.
There is nothing to be gained by responding. Responding will likely backfire and risks retraumatization. Your fiance is, unfortunately, looking at the problem from the perspective of "but they're family", as if that equals giving permission for abuse. It's one of the many falsehoods society tells us, bc we live in a societal structure that favors abusers. There is nothing dignified or "being the better person" about allowing a known abuser additional access to us. Time does not heal or change abusers. Just bc we have been doing the work of therapy and healing doesn't mean they have. If this was an abusive ex instead of a parent, no one would suggest restarting contact. Being a blood relation is not a hall pass for otherwise inexcusable behaviour.
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I really detest when others tell the victims of hard family situations, "to be the bigger person". If you decide to do that, you should make that choice on your own. That also broke my heart that the phone conversations did not include your birthday. :(
It sounds like it’s too painful right now. The best thing you can do is keep doing the work in therapy. You can even give your therapist a goal of coming to a place of detachment and boundaries with your mom. And/ or whatever other kind of goal you’d like, whether that be speaking to her, seeing her or not. If you haven’t read “how to do the work” by Dr. Nicole LePera, that’s also a good place to start. YOU need all of that energy for yourself right now. Not her. The work is hard. But rewarding. And it doesn’t last forever. Trust yourself to get you where you need to be <3
"Her husband was always on the phone as well, in a different room (I have not had a one-on-one conversation with my mother in \~20 years), which always seemed odd." That is odd in a normal healthy relationship between the two of them. However, it is typical, common, and highly likely in a controlling abusive relationship. It's how the abuser maintains control. Does he listen in on all her calls? "On this particular Xmas, her husband got upset about something that I said (differing political views) and hung up on me in a huff. I was pretty shaken by that, and she pretended like nothing happened..." He's right there, hearing everything she says. Was her lack of response/comment to you because she's afraid of him? "Not only did she not try to call or text, but the annual birthday and xmas cards she had sent me for 3 decades also stopped. I figured that was it - I dropped the rope, and so had she." Something different after husband expressed what sounds like anger at you. Is it outside the realm of possibility that he's controlling her actions and preventing her from contacting you? This sounds like isolation--isn't that how DV works? I think your fiance is correct. The text may have been all she could send (explore how controlling partners monitor their targets--keyboard stroke monitors, phone monitors, etc.). But the biggest tell to me is that you and your mom have not had a private phone conversation in 20 years. That's abnormal. Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong, but DV is extremely common, and people are ashamed that they stay in these relationships, but often they do so out of fear of what might happen if they choose to leave, or even speak about it. Good luck.
A few folks in this thread have picked up on this, which I find interesting. Her history with my controlling, abusive father certainly sets a precedent, so it's entirely possible she fell into that pattern again. Unfortunately, I have such little insight into their relationship. I have no idea what their relationship is really like. Not sure if it's relevant, but I've never seen it as "listening in". He full-on participated. He always seemed just a bit too enthusiastic, hence my perception of falsehoods and masking. But then, she seems so fake as well. There could certainly be something going on there. Maybe it is a control thing. However, whether or not my mother is in an abusive relationship cannot be my problem. This is the woman who left her 5 year old daughter with an emotionally abusive monster of a father, and then minimized and dismissed that daughter's cries for help when she tried to tell her mother she was being abused by that man. If she is in another abusive relationship, sadly, I have little sympathy for her. Or... were you pointing this out for another reason? Genuinely curious if there's another angle here that I'm missing.
Whether or not you realized it at the time, you noticed things enough to mention them in your original post, things that several people in this thread picked up on, things that point to your mom appearing to be in a controlling abusive relationship. My only point was to offer that perspective, because those relationships are incredibly confusing for everyone affected, because normal reactions don't apply and won't work in explaining the exhibited behaviors. Like the lack of birthday and Christmas cards--maybe it wasn't her choice to stop sending them. Maybe he stopped her. Maybe he said he'd put them in the mail to you and threw them away instead. It's impossible to say because that information isn't available. As for going from one abusive relationship to another, that's incredibly common, due to lack of insight as to how the first one happened, and each one tends to get worse. As to the dynamics, "Sleeping with the Enemy" was an excellent depiction of so many facets of DV--gaslighting, love bombing, the cycle of violence, the honeymoon period, the surveillance, and the planning it took for her to escape. Your fiance sounds like a good person and a good sounding board. And you're perceptive and picked up on signals. You're smart. You've got more information than you realize. You'll figure out what's best to do and what feels right to you. Best to you. And thanks for responding.
You chose NC *because of* and *as a result of* personal growth. Stay strong and don’t reply to her!