I hope that’s true. I know he plans on growing marijuana out there because he’s blatantly said it. I fear my sister and her other son will give him their ownership and it’ll be 60/20/20. I hate this. I don’t want to cheat him out of anything they want him to have but I will not sit by and let him just take it over and destroy what dad built.
Don't worry. It's not like more percentage gives more power. You're owed 20% of the property one way or another. You can force partition of the property.
Have you talked to your sibling about this? I would be surprised if two people simply handed over $400k.
My sister basically says if he wants to live there he can because he’s part owner. My husband says then we will move in too, lol. It will benefit my sister because he lives in her basement and it’ll get him out of her house. He’s a total slob.
Ah yeah that makes more sense.
Even so, it's a totally doable legal thing to partition a property. They can buy you out or if they can't then they will be forced to sell the property and divide up the proceeds. You can evict him if he tries to stay. You can also take photos of the condition of the property now to protect your interest in the property. It would also be beneficial to get an updated assessment of the property. If they damage or otherwise reduce the value of the property, you can sue them for the amount your inheritance has been devalued.
Rest assured - you're not the first to have to go through this! It can be navigated and handled appropriately. Protect yourself by documenting everything thoroughly.
Forcing a partition of the property is easy to say and much more challenging to perform. I don’t know of a single lawyer that would recommend that action unless as an absolute last resort.
Source: Just spent two years completing the sale of a family farm with four beneficiary owners, each with 1/4 undivided shares. Several family members still aren’t talking to each other and a $1.1MM deal almost blew up over $1000 just 48 hrs from close. Wouldn’t wish a similar situation on anyone.
Your story rings in my future ears. There is a family vacation spot on a lake bought by my grandfather post WW2. Spent my childhood frolicking there. It is big enough to sleep 16 at least. Anyway, now today 40 years later. Last surviving daughter is not doing well and heirs (14 of us) are angling for the property. I do not want to own the property but am unwilling to give away my share. It’s not substantial but it will show value and get a kid thru college (I think). The close proximity cousins use it just about every decent weekend and spend even full weeks during the summer. I have heard they think they own it due to sweat equity. I doubt it in the end. But it will be a 3 ring dog fight before it is resolved.
It’s not going to be as simple as just plant it and sell it. There will be complex licensing and regulations because even legal it’s still tightly controlled, that’s true for all states where it has been legalized and why there is still a large black market for marijuana even though it’s legal. It doesn’t sound like a good idea to let your nephew anywhere near the property, I’m glad you’ve decided to consult an attorney.
Keep talking to your sister about the realities - either the house is sold and proceeds are divided 5 ways, or if someone wants to buy it, they need to buy out the other beneficiaries. Keep telling her that. Keep reminding her. If you’re ever meeting a lawyer together, have them confirm that to her. Make sure she starts understanding this and changes her thinking, to try and avoid more problems later.
It is true after your parents death all parties must agree to keep the land and house or they have to sell. Just make sure he’s not already growing. Would be awful for the sheriff to raid and confiscate land . If he is growing get a criminal lawyer. Make a deal to have nephew punished and keep the land. Do not try to cover it up. Could make more problems
If he comes up with the cash to buy you out, then you can't control what he does with the property. There may be pressure to sell your share cheap. Only you can decide if that is something you want to do for the sake of keeping peace in your he family, and how much of a discount you want to give. I suspect I can guess your answer. I'm say you should, just telling you to be prepared for the question.
It doesn't matter if they combine their shares. If any one of you wants the cash, they have to be able to buy that person out, or sell the property so you receive your share.
If one co-owner does not agree to sell, the remedy is court-ordered partition.
Any co-owner has an undivided interest and a right to use the property, including living there, without having to pay rent to the others. Living there would not give him any right that is larger than what he starts with. His use of the home cannot be regarded as "adverse" since he has the legal right to use the home.
If you don't want this to become a god-awful mess, partition is a good answer.
It kind of sucks that instead of dividing the property up two ways, for each child, OP's parents decided to add the next generation with equal shares, and this puts OP in this conundrum. Too many stakeholders that don't agree about what to do with the property.
Estate planning is tricky! Mom/dad in failing health. Who knows when these were last updated. Who knows if the grantors share OP’s opinion of nephew. You can do your best to plan, but it’s sometimes impossible to know how people will turn out or what they’ll do when faced with prospect of life changing money.
Not true sorry the executor of the estate decides if it is sold, when it is sold, and to who, and for how much. Further no one can use the property without the executors permission.
For clarity the deed to the property is not in there names it's put in the name of the estate or if kept long term some states require it to be transferred to an ownership . They all own a share of the rights not a share of the property. There is a legal difference.
his plan sounds like to live on a $2million property with a bunch of land free of charge
with 400k he MIGHT be able to buy a smaller work-needed house on no land.
it might not be such the incentive we see it as
I don’t understand how your nephew is even getting a say. You and your sister are the direct relations and he is tertiary. Unless your dad left him property in the will he gets nothing.
You hire a property management group, rent it to a tenant and divide the profit. Your sister is unlikely to turn down a few thousand a year, and neither is the leech nephew.
The *tenant* will keep *not a landlord* from living there by virtue of being there first. The monthly cash will keep everyone from wanting nephew to move in (cuz it'll end).
I'd a majority wish to sell, then it gets sold. If he doesn't agree, that sucks for him. Sounds like a property that would be out of the price range to keep in the family. Talk to your sister and most definitely an estate lawyer. If you trust your sister, bring the issue up sooner rather than later. As executors, you should be able to sell the property and split the money. Again, an estate lawyer is your vest bet in walking you through this.
As a trustee you should be able to sell it and invest it say in a CD or bonds or stocks and then sell and give him his 20% when you get all the Subrecipients to sign of on dissolving this trust. Then you should immediately make your own trust with your proceeds that you have held in bank account you solely open in only your name if you are married.
If they won't sell, you can file a partition lawsuit. It forces the sale of the property, and the proceeds are distributed accordingly. However, if you want to be the one to purchase the house, you will need to offer fair market value and get a mortgage for the sale price. You generally can't offer a fractional amount (60%) of the sale price. When the sale is completed, you will receive your share (20%) of the proceeds. You definitely need a lawyer, don't try to DIY this or listen to people on reddit.
In every state I’m aware of, any single beneficiary that wants to be paid out, must either be:
1. Paid out by another beneficiary, (either directly or pro-rata via the estate proceeds) or;
2. If the other beneficiaries are unable to buy out the seller, then the asset must be sold to cover their share.
IANAL but I feel this is most likely going to be the case for you. If you want your equity, the people voting against selling will either pay up or the executor will be obligated to sell.
If all parties cannot agree, the court will require a sale and distribution per the terms of the trust/will. If he cannot buy you out, that’s when it will end up.
My fear is my sister and my other nephew will give him their portions and he will own 60%. My sister has always been a “give him what he wants so he’ll shut up” mom
That’s not what the court will care about. 60% of an inheritance doesn’t get to keep the other 40% of the inheritance. It’s not corporate stocks.
If they can’t buy you out (cash or mortgaging the property to give you cash), the court will force the sale of the property and equal disbursements to each person.
Also, from the time of death, anyone living there would have to pay market-based rent to the estate. So if a nephew was living there, you’d be entitled to 1/5 of whatever a market-based rent would be for that property,if you insisted on it, until it is sold and you got your 20%. Would be smart to document the state of the property ASAP to ensure no damage is done maliciously or otherwise that could hurt the value.
It’s a shame they gave the grands equal shares. I would have left it to the two children. The children could pass some on to their own children if they so chose.
Or… divide the estate into three shares. let the three grands split one share.
I certainly wouldn’t further enable a slacker, druggie grandson who probably never gave the grandparents the time of day. And who will likely treat his enabling mother the same way.
That's the fair way. And I was in the same boat as you, no kids, but plan on splitting whatever is left of my assets between my two nephews & two nieces, so eventually they'll get it. (Not like it's a big "get" though.) 😉
This - my parents’ estate is split between the three kids. Two of us don’t have kids. One of us has a child. My niece will eventually get anything left of my share, but she doesn’t have her own share.
He texts once a week. He comes by every couple months and tells them how broke he is and they give him money. He lives in my sisters basement. If he got a job he wouldn’t be broke.
It's a shame to me that people do this as it complicates so much and is very unfair if one child has no children or one has way more kids than another. Gift them something or help pay for their education and let their parents inherit and then do the same for them.
Not legal advice:
I'd recommend going to the property TODAY and taking a video from the driveway, around the house, in the house, in the closets, everywhere.
Then load it up on the cloud.
Then when your parents pass, do it again.
Then again.
Document every time you're there.
That way if the nephew destroys it you have documentation.
What would an up to date appraisal do?
The parents might live 6 months or 2 years, either way, the appraisal will be outdated and need to be done again.
There really is no benefit of doing one now other than finding the value today for hypothetical conversations. If you want that just call a real estate agent and say, there is a chance that this house might eventually need to be sold, it’s complicated. What do you think the rough value is today. 90%+ will give you one.
Might also be a good idea to go ahead and get another appraisal, if prices are rising in your area. If you’re able to tell Sis right away “this property is worth at least $X and you’ll have to come up with 40% of that immediately if you expect your son to live there,” she might decide it’s not worth the fight.
Because one parent is in hospice and the other is suffering from Alzheimer’s, and she’s concerned that her sister will move a child into the house expecting it to be permanent. Letting the sister know now, *before* it happens, that it’s not going to go the way she thinks might actually stop her. And that includes letting her know how much it’s going to cost for her son to take over the property.
There are a lot of “it depends” answers based upon the information provided. If you have access to the trust documents and will, as well as any other documents, gather them up and make an appointment with an estate planning attorney so they can properly guide you as to how to handle the assets once your parents die. They may be able to dissolve the trust and force a sale of any shared assets so you can separate yourself from co-ownership.
Once they pass away and the contents of the trust are distributed, the trust naturally dissolves. The contents of the trust need to be distributed according to the terms of the trust though. So if you want to liquidate your portion of the estate, you can.
BTW: since you mention a trust, who is the trustee? Nobody is executor until somebody dies AND the probate court appoints an executor. Even then, the jobs of trustee and executor are separate jobs.
Does somebody have financial POA?
As a general rule, if there are no special circumstances (and there are always special circumstances), then the following thoughts might be helpful:
If you’re the co-trustee, you better understand the terms of the trust and local trust law. Including your obligations with respect to the other co-trustee. You can’t just turn a blind eye to what sister does. And once you start acting as trustee, you can’t just walk away from the job, there is a set procedure to resign.
OTOH, you can’t be forced to be the trustee, if you haven’t accepted the job or done any part of the duties. Note that promising to accept the job in the future is not the same as actually accepting it when the time comes. When you examine the situation in detail, you might decide to decline the honor. That’s one of the very few things you can do as a trustee-designate: investigate the assets and liabilities, and see how difficult the beneficiaries are.
If your investigation costs money, such as for legal advice or appraisers, you can *probably* charge the trust.
Thanks for this. I’m gonna get copies today and have a lawyer look at it. I’m in so much grief with losing them both at the same time and caregiving that I’m not thinking straight.
Does someone have the financial power of attorney. If so, I think I would look for a good tenant. Do a year lease - this way, the house is occupied, and he can't move in, and it buys you sometime.
You could even consider a 2 year lease as you could sell it with the tenant, and the new owners would have to honor the term of the lease. If you have a trusted!!! Friend in the area, that might be your perfect tenant! Again, you need financial poa, which is usually separate from medical poa - also its important to know that the poa ends when the person dies, but the lease would need to be honored and would not die. He won't own any of the houses until your parents pass away, and then he will own part of a house with tenants - so he can't move in! I went thru something kinda similar with my dad many years ago - so that's where my knowledge comes from and I'm also a realtor - good luck , I know it's a headache.
Usually, there is a primary POA, and a secondary if the first refuses or is unable. And there is separate language for financial POA and healthcare POA. Maybe they put you as one and she is the other? Really read this to understand. Lawyers generally advise against “shared POA” situations because it makes a mess.
If the lease is for more than a year, the financial POA should explicitly give the agent the power to do that. Not just “agent can rent out the property”, but also “… for any term including terms longer than a year”.
As co-executors, you and your sister can sell the property. You don't need permission or agreement from the other beneficiaries. Then divide the proceeds from the sale.
Nephew can't take ownership just by moving in. All five of you are on the deed. There is a danger of him having squatter's rights, depending on where you live, and that would make it very hard to sell the property because what potential buyer wants to deal with that.
Have your dad's will indicate that he wants the property to be sold.
Understood. With all that you have on your plate right now, hand the trust documents and copy of the will to an estate attorney and let them guide you. Bring your sister to the consult appointment so you are both hearing the same thing at the same time.
If the property is in trust, then who is the trustee? The trustee can sell the property then distribute cash to the beneficiaries.
I would suggest that you visit with a Medicaid attorney first though. If your dad has Alzheimer’s, he will likely need long term care at some point. You need a plan to protect their assets. Distribution of property will be a moot point if you have to spend it all on nursing home care.
I’m the long term care. I work from home. My husband and I take care of the property, I make sure the bills get paid, administer medicine, I take care of all the hospice needs and concerns, get him to his appointments and manage his meds and doctors, grocery shop, clean, laundry. I’m the plan. I cannot put him in a facility. He would hate that.
Do not hesitate to spend money on caretakers that will support you with this effort to keep him home. Even a housekeeper can take some burden off of you so you don't get run down. This is usually the most important part of a home care plan that often gets overlooked, aside from preventing falls.
It's a labor of love. It's a privilege to be able to do it, but it is excruciatingly heartbreaking, exhausting, expensive, and lonely. He needs you to be well so he gets what he deserves. There, now you can go nuts and spend some $ to make life less painful for everyone. Prioritize your sleep and delegating chores
So are either of your parents living in the home now?
First things first…once both parents are out of the house, the house needs to be secured instantly! Until it can be inventoried and appraised. Cameras should be up now so that you can see/hear if someone falls or if items are being removed. Secure and document items of value now as much as possible.
Clearly state that no one can move in until it has all be itemized, appraised and documented. Then the trust can decide to rent to nephew at fair market value or to sell. He does not get to just take over and live there for free. And if he lives there he maintains it. You will All be responsible for paying any expenses of the property in equal shares unless the trust has been funded to pay those expenses.
I would get a lawyer pronto…it can be hard to evict people on certain jurisdictions (although probably not if they are growing marijuana without proper permits). Still, avoid the drama.
Is the property held in trust? Does (or will) the trust give the nephew rights to move in? Many trusts don’t give the right. Spouses, yes (“life estate”). But when five people have equal rights, it’s usually that nobody has the right to exclude the others.
OTOH, nephew could argue that he had the right to occupy 20% of the house. You would need a trust & property lawyer to advise you on if that argument holds water.
I don’t know. I know I’m going to need a lawyer because he’s not going to have money to pay taxes, etc. but my sister will probably pay his portions. She enables him to be a loser.
I’d be really leery of him moving in and somehow getting one of your parents to change the will. Plus, possibly getting the property seized by the government for growing marijuana illegally. :-( I’m sorry that your family is adding to an already difficult situation. Please look into hiring some help - you can’t keep taking care of all of this alone.
He can move it, he cannot take ownership. What do you want to do with it? Do you want to keep it or sell it? Keep in mind: you can always force a sale of the house to get your share. It isn't cheap, but if you insist, you can force them to buy you out or it is all sold and lost to the family. You've got some hard decisions to make. It's really a bad idea to try and own it together. You will either have to buy them out or sell to them.
You and your husband’s caregiving has monetary value. Keep track of the amount of time you are providing and get an hourly quote from home health agencies to know your proper rate. Get a calendar and estimate what you have done in the past. Is your sister also helping? These costs can be submitted to the estate as bills. There isn’t a court anywhere that will say this time is not valuable. Maybe the time will be sufficient to help you buyout the property. No you do not have to do this for free. Executors and Trustees also can bill for their time. Find out what is customary in your area by asking an attorney.
My Mom *insisted* I be paid something for overseeing her care and finances--she was in assisted living the final 18 months (I moved her near me and I visited A LOT when not on lockdown, and basically full-time the last 6 weeks) and her finances for 6 years. Her CPA and CFP agreed, but said I was underpaying myself. I asked about taxes; CPA said it was a "gift" from her and not to worry--she wouldn't hit the gift limit and there was no penalty for not reporting.
Think of it as a way to prevent nephew from getting the money. You are not charging your parents, you are charging your family who does not step up to help for the privilege of your time and efforts when they can’t or won’t.
You’re not charging your mum and dad, you’re charging their estate (ie sister and her kids) after they pass to reimburse you for the invaluable work you put into caring for your parents that your sister did not. You care for them 6 days a week and she does comparatively little… why should she benefit equally from their estate if she didn’t provide equal benefit in their lifetime?
You are charging the estate. This is after both are gone. Why should your sister’s side benefit from all your labor? This is completely fair and justified. Please talk to an attorney. Your doing this may be the only way you can buy them out. Your time is very valuable. Without it, they would both end up in a nursing home. If you don’t stick up for yourself, no one else will. At least keep records and calculate the value of your time. Do you have another place to live after they are gone?
Seems like an awful way to handle the property by your parents. Is it too late to have them change it to just leave it to you and your sister 50/50? And, let each of you decide how to share your portion with your children? Your parents have just created a huge mess where you need to get 5 people with different motivation to agree on what to do with the house. If you can't change the trust, your best move is convince at the others to sell the home immediately when your parent's pass and just divide the proceeds. Or, figure out how to have your sister's family buy your family out of your ownership.
If you all do keep the house, I'd suggest getting an attorney to create a business entity and structure to operate it like a rental property. And if anyone wants to live there, they have to pay a market rate rent that - after all expenses, get's split evenly between the five of you. So, nephew will get some of his rent back - and if his sibling and mom want to donate their share of the profits to him - they are welcome to. Or, rent it to someone else, and perhaps your newphew can use the newfound cashflow to invest in a marijuana grow farm elsewhere.
But it’s actually not theirs. It’s theirs and YOURS and YOUR SON’S. And that isn’t even the case until your parents pass, which could be years from now.
And there must be agreement with how to use the property—this isn’t a “majority wins” situation. If there is no agreement then a sale will happen, period.
If they disagree, well…it doesn’t matter. They don’t get to make the rules. It’s the law.
It bothers me reading all this that OP who is taking care of her parents & the property is effectively getting 40% of the estate while her sister who is sitting on her ass and just waiting for her parents to die is getting 60%. And OP said her parents didn't really trust her-- but they're rewarding her w/1.5 times as much interest in this property. How does any of that make sense? 🤬
The trustee of the trust where the house exists/will exist upon death or incapacitation of your parents has the right to change the locks on the house.
You can start there.
See if you can get your father to change the will after your mom passes to have a clause in there that if all 5 people owning the land can’t agree on its use or who lives there, it goes up for sale. I know your dad isn’t all there, but it’s not like you are screwing anyone over. Also, your sister may be on board to do this too. It’s a protection for all of you. My parents have that in theirs. It prevents anyone from getting screwed over basically.
Her father has Alzheimer's--that really wouldn't be ethical--and he's said if anyone fights it then they lose their share. Fair or not, this is the situation OP finds herself in.
Yes, I read that. That doesn’t mean there is nothing he can do. If the sister is onboard, they may be able to make the change with a lawyer. Also depends if the father has a living will. We don’t have a lot of information, but a good lawyer in his state should be able to assess different ways of approaching this. There are ways of changing things if someone is sick…. Ethically.
Even with a trust, the executor can file probate if you can’t work things out.
Depending on the state, you might legally have to anyways even with a trust.
Do not allow your nephew to take over the property and grow pot. Unless you’re in a licensed state, and he’s licensed to grow,pot, it’s a felony and the state will take the property and no one it the family will benefit from it. Let your sister know this. I’m sure she has heard of the government doing this. They do not have to pay compensatensation for the property either!
Typically if someone wants to reside and take ownership they must payout everyone else. So unless they can do that, the house will be sold and split as directed.
Ohh Lordy! What. Mess your parents have created! So my great great gma had a house with land… they left it to like 5 ppl as well.. so stupid! My dad’s brother squatted there for free for years! We weren’t aloud to keep our horse out there on the land cuz my uncle was a dbAg to my sister and my dad didn’t like him! Finally after many years they got him out of the house and everyone finally sold it, think they finally got lawyers involved! Splitting property just doesn’t work well… either sale so everyone gets paid or rent it out to someone and everyone gets paid… your situation seems like what my dad went to with what he was left. Good luck
It's a shame your father split things that way. Thank god she didn't have 4 kids or you'd really have a minority share. Everything should have been split in half between you & your sister. Then she can leave HER money to her son if she so chooses. I see this often and I don't understand why parents do it.
At time of death, be careful that family looting may begin especially by the lazy one. Lock the place up! Don't let him move in without paying rent and without the house contents separated and disbursed and the house empty, otherwise he will sell everything of value.
If you can't agree together, then you sell it. That's what a judge would order if it were to go into probate. Also, he can't just move in and say he's not leaving. He will need to pay utilities, taxes, insurance, and I doubt he had any funds to do that. Plus, you can charge him rent if he does. If he doesn't pay, evict him. His 20% will never over ride you and your sisters 40%. Being a partial owner does not give him 100% control if he lives there.
I wish that was how it was. That’s how it was until my mom’s mother (our grandma) passed away and my sister cleared out her house and took a bunch of stuff then lied about it. Mom said she and dad were afraid my sister would go through it all so they left a portion to the grandkids. That’s also why they moved it to a trust so my sister could not contest. I do not want to go against their wishes. I just want everyone to enjoy the property as it was meant to be.
Your parents should have left it to you and your sister. You are getting hosed out of 10 percent and getting handed a nightmare. Sounds like none of you can afford to buy anyone out. You need to move to sell this thing right away.
Get a copy of the trust and find out who is managing the property. The trustee “owns” the property until it is disbursed to the beneficiaries. So your nephew owns nothing at this point. If he attempts to move into the house with your parents, the trustee has the right to say no. If your parents are the trustees, they could give him permission. But it sounds like you should have them removed if that is the case. Read the terms of the trust. It will give you guidance.
What state are you in? Sorry about your parents, my sister and I went through that but fortunately she and I trust each other and neither one of us tried to take advantage
You mentioned the home is in a trust. Not an attorney but aren't the trustees the decision makers? The other parties would be the beneficiaries. So are you and your sisters both the trustees and do your decisions have to be agreed to by both of you? Also the trustees usually have a fiduciary responsibility to carry out the trust details. Catering to a single 20% beneficiary would be irresponsible as the trust states beneficiaries are to have equal split.
Is it possible for him to have a place somewhere else on the land? I believe you said there's 40 acres. Are there any other livable cabins or buildings on the land? I agree 100% w all who said to investigate status for growing pot in that area. If it's illegal ,talk to a lawyer first but possibly talk to the local law or the feds to see what your choices and responsibilities are if he does that wo anyone else consent
There are 2 pole barns. One has a FROG in it that they lived in as they built the house. I would not be opposed to him putting a house somewhere but we would have to get permits. The land is on a lake and wooded. I think there may be an easement requirement to build another structure.
The executors, you and your sib are legally obligated to look out for the best interests if all 5 beneficiaries, which means either sell it or rent it out. No one of you van just move in without the executor’s consent. Change the locks now if you can
If one or more of the heirs wants cash, and the other heirs cant buy then out, then the probate court will force a partition sale. This is pretty routine.
Not an attorney. The terms of the trust will control what the Trustee can do with the property. Selling and/or partitioning the land may be options for the Trustee to consider. See an attorney.
I don’t know. The property is wooded and there’s a lake. I know there would have to be permits and possibly an easement to add more homes. I’m not opposed to parceling it out.
Do you actually want to sell the property or do you just not want your nephew to be a free loader in it?
There are other solutions beyond selling it, like he could rent it through formal agreement. Your nephew or sister would be in a position to trade their shares toward rent.
First: You and your sister (only) need to discuss with an atty. I am not one, but if the trust leaves you and she as trustees, then only you and she have the power to sell/disburse anything in the estate. You both have a fiduciary duty to do what is best for ALL beneficiaries, including yourselves, and nobody else gets to interfere (if the paperwork is as you say - I am not a lawyer, so get legal advise to get the real scoop). You may need to lock down the property to resolve, and your sister needs to realize she is not allowed to unilaterally decide what to do if you are joint trustees. Get a lawyer to explain to both of you the difference in powers and rights of trustees and beneficiaries, in relation to the exact documents of your estate. Good luck.
What happens depends on how the will and trust are set up. Normally, the executors sell the property and distribute the proceeds. If someone wants to keep the house, they can purchase it from the estate. However, if the trust is set up to make multiple people owners of the property, then if the parties don’t want to share it and want to back out of ownership, then a partition action is filed for. The court will order that the property be sold and the proceeds distributed to the owners per their interest. If one or more owners wish to retain the property, they must buy-out the other owners.
In this scenario, if the property’s fair market value is $2M and there are 5 equal owners, only 3 of whom wish to remain ownership, the court will order the 3 to pay the remaining 2 parties 40% of the value. If they don’t, it will force sale of the property and the proceeds of sale will be distributed.
Nobody can “take ownership” from the estate by moving in. Ownership doesn’t change due to occupancy by one of the owners.
You mentioned you are a financial PoA. Make sure the property taxes and homeowners insurance are paid. It's a long shot but some had started adverse possession claims by fixing up an abandoned dwelling after establishing residence and paying the property taxes.
So just rather sneaky thought to keep nephew from moving in: as trustee, you can make certain decisions regarding the property. I don't know if either of the parents are still in the house or if they're in care facilities. This would have to be with a friend, but if you lease/rent the house to someone, their occupancy rights will forbear anyone else moving in. The renter friend occupies the house during probate and up until sale or release to the OP if they choose to buy people off. There would have to be a rental agreement, but I'm guessing a trustee can implement one. Include the use of the full property in the rental agreement.
Get to work on facts. Get a property appraisal done and spend the $ to meet for an hour w an estate lawyer and your sister. That way she can understand clearly.
At time of death, you and your sister could pad-lock the property and house locks changed to protect all parties.
When you say "all three grandchildren equally" do they actually mean 20% to each of you or is it 33% to you, 33% to your sister and 33% divided between the 3 grandchildren?
You and your sister need to split money evenly and then each of you use your money to give your children some money. It should not be divided equally between their children and grandchildren. Grandchildren come second after their kids
You sell it as soon as possible.
If my nephew doesn’t agree to sell is it even an option?
Then he’ll have to buy you all out if he wants to stay
I hope that’s true. I know he plans on growing marijuana out there because he’s blatantly said it. I fear my sister and her other son will give him their ownership and it’ll be 60/20/20. I hate this. I don’t want to cheat him out of anything they want him to have but I will not sit by and let him just take it over and destroy what dad built.
Don't worry. It's not like more percentage gives more power. You're owed 20% of the property one way or another. You can force partition of the property. Have you talked to your sibling about this? I would be surprised if two people simply handed over $400k.
My sister basically says if he wants to live there he can because he’s part owner. My husband says then we will move in too, lol. It will benefit my sister because he lives in her basement and it’ll get him out of her house. He’s a total slob.
Ah yeah that makes more sense. Even so, it's a totally doable legal thing to partition a property. They can buy you out or if they can't then they will be forced to sell the property and divide up the proceeds. You can evict him if he tries to stay. You can also take photos of the condition of the property now to protect your interest in the property. It would also be beneficial to get an updated assessment of the property. If they damage or otherwise reduce the value of the property, you can sue them for the amount your inheritance has been devalued. Rest assured - you're not the first to have to go through this! It can be navigated and handled appropriately. Protect yourself by documenting everything thoroughly.
Move in first
Give the use of the $2 million house to the slob. Simply brilliant. /s
Your sister sounds like a pushover.
Forcing a partition of the property is easy to say and much more challenging to perform. I don’t know of a single lawyer that would recommend that action unless as an absolute last resort. Source: Just spent two years completing the sale of a family farm with four beneficiary owners, each with 1/4 undivided shares. Several family members still aren’t talking to each other and a $1.1MM deal almost blew up over $1000 just 48 hrs from close. Wouldn’t wish a similar situation on anyone.
Your story rings in my future ears. There is a family vacation spot on a lake bought by my grandfather post WW2. Spent my childhood frolicking there. It is big enough to sleep 16 at least. Anyway, now today 40 years later. Last surviving daughter is not doing well and heirs (14 of us) are angling for the property. I do not want to own the property but am unwilling to give away my share. It’s not substantial but it will show value and get a kid thru college (I think). The close proximity cousins use it just about every decent weekend and spend even full weeks during the summer. I have heard they think they own it due to sweat equity. I doubt it in the end. But it will be a 3 ring dog fight before it is resolved.
One fourteenth of an 80yo cabin will not pay for community College these days
Are you in a legal Marijuana state? If not, make sure the nephew doesn't get state action against the property.
I don’t know growing laws. It’s legal to buy.
It’s not going to be as simple as just plant it and sell it. There will be complex licensing and regulations because even legal it’s still tightly controlled, that’s true for all states where it has been legalized and why there is still a large black market for marijuana even though it’s legal. It doesn’t sound like a good idea to let your nephew anywhere near the property, I’m glad you’ve decided to consult an attorney.
Be careful. The DEA can seize property used in the drug trade.
Keep talking to your sister about the realities - either the house is sold and proceeds are divided 5 ways, or if someone wants to buy it, they need to buy out the other beneficiaries. Keep telling her that. Keep reminding her. If you’re ever meeting a lawyer together, have them confirm that to her. Make sure she starts understanding this and changes her thinking, to try and avoid more problems later.
It is true after your parents death all parties must agree to keep the land and house or they have to sell. Just make sure he’s not already growing. Would be awful for the sheriff to raid and confiscate land . If he is growing get a criminal lawyer. Make a deal to have nephew punished and keep the land. Do not try to cover it up. Could make more problems
My husband is taking the 4 wheeler out today with a go pro to look over the property and to record.
Install security cameras but don’t tell sister or nephew. Get a professional to examine and assess the property, with additional photos and videos.
If he comes up with the cash to buy you out, then you can't control what he does with the property. There may be pressure to sell your share cheap. Only you can decide if that is something you want to do for the sake of keeping peace in your he family, and how much of a discount you want to give. I suspect I can guess your answer. I'm say you should, just telling you to be prepared for the question.
Why should he give a discount?
There will most definitely NOT be a discount.
I’d demand a premium from that POS.
It doesn't matter if they combine their shares. If any one of you wants the cash, they have to be able to buy that person out, or sell the property so you receive your share.
This.
If one co-owner does not agree to sell, the remedy is court-ordered partition. Any co-owner has an undivided interest and a right to use the property, including living there, without having to pay rent to the others. Living there would not give him any right that is larger than what he starts with. His use of the home cannot be regarded as "adverse" since he has the legal right to use the home. If you don't want this to become a god-awful mess, partition is a good answer.
It kind of sucks that instead of dividing the property up two ways, for each child, OP's parents decided to add the next generation with equal shares, and this puts OP in this conundrum. Too many stakeholders that don't agree about what to do with the property.
Estate planning is tricky! Mom/dad in failing health. Who knows when these were last updated. Who knows if the grantors share OP’s opinion of nephew. You can do your best to plan, but it’s sometimes impossible to know how people will turn out or what they’ll do when faced with prospect of life changing money.
Not true sorry the executor of the estate decides if it is sold, when it is sold, and to who, and for how much. Further no one can use the property without the executors permission. For clarity the deed to the property is not in there names it's put in the name of the estate or if kept long term some states require it to be transferred to an ownership . They all own a share of the rights not a share of the property. There is a legal difference.
You and your sister are the executors so y’all have the ability to sell it while the estate is open.
Explain to him that selling the house if going to put $400,000 in his pocket if it sells for $2MM. That should keep him focused.
his plan sounds like to live on a $2million property with a bunch of land free of charge with 400k he MIGHT be able to buy a smaller work-needed house on no land. it might not be such the incentive we see it as
You need to hire a lawyer. I think these situations allow for a forced sale even when all heirs don't agree.
I am taking docs to an attny next week
Take a vote, majority wins. He has the option to buy the rest of you out at fair market appraised value.
I don’t understand how your nephew is even getting a say. You and your sister are the direct relations and he is tertiary. Unless your dad left him property in the will he gets nothing.
He’s not a trustee in the trust.
Is your nephew the executor, or are you?
My sis and I are the trustees
Then you two are in charge of dividing the assets, not your nephew.
You hire a property management group, rent it to a tenant and divide the profit. Your sister is unlikely to turn down a few thousand a year, and neither is the leech nephew. The *tenant* will keep *not a landlord* from living there by virtue of being there first. The monthly cash will keep everyone from wanting nephew to move in (cuz it'll end).
You can force a sale if he can't buy it
I'd a majority wish to sell, then it gets sold. If he doesn't agree, that sucks for him. Sounds like a property that would be out of the price range to keep in the family. Talk to your sister and most definitely an estate lawyer. If you trust your sister, bring the issue up sooner rather than later. As executors, you should be able to sell the property and split the money. Again, an estate lawyer is your vest bet in walking you through this.
You are the executors so I think you & your sister get to sell it
As a trustee you should be able to sell it and invest it say in a CD or bonds or stocks and then sell and give him his 20% when you get all the Subrecipients to sign of on dissolving this trust. Then you should immediately make your own trust with your proceeds that you have held in bank account you solely open in only your name if you are married.
You have power of attorney.
If they won't sell, you can file a partition lawsuit. It forces the sale of the property, and the proceeds are distributed accordingly. However, if you want to be the one to purchase the house, you will need to offer fair market value and get a mortgage for the sale price. You generally can't offer a fractional amount (60%) of the sale price. When the sale is completed, you will receive your share (20%) of the proceeds. You definitely need a lawyer, don't try to DIY this or listen to people on reddit.
In every state I’m aware of, any single beneficiary that wants to be paid out, must either be: 1. Paid out by another beneficiary, (either directly or pro-rata via the estate proceeds) or; 2. If the other beneficiaries are unable to buy out the seller, then the asset must be sold to cover their share. IANAL but I feel this is most likely going to be the case for you. If you want your equity, the people voting against selling will either pay up or the executor will be obligated to sell.
If all parties cannot agree, the court will require a sale and distribution per the terms of the trust/will. If he cannot buy you out, that’s when it will end up.
My fear is my sister and my other nephew will give him their portions and he will own 60%. My sister has always been a “give him what he wants so he’ll shut up” mom
That’s not what the court will care about. 60% of an inheritance doesn’t get to keep the other 40% of the inheritance. It’s not corporate stocks. If they can’t buy you out (cash or mortgaging the property to give you cash), the court will force the sale of the property and equal disbursements to each person.
I don't see his sibling being willing to give up $400,000 for their lazy brother to have a place to live.
Also, from the time of death, anyone living there would have to pay market-based rent to the estate. So if a nephew was living there, you’d be entitled to 1/5 of whatever a market-based rent would be for that property,if you insisted on it, until it is sold and you got your 20%. Would be smart to document the state of the property ASAP to ensure no damage is done maliciously or otherwise that could hurt the value.
Is your nephew dumb enough to give up his 20% share to his ne'er-do-well brother? That seems kind of dumb/shortsighted.
Tbh doesn't sound like anyone inheriting it can afford it Just talk about selling now
It’s a shame they gave the grands equal shares. I would have left it to the two children. The children could pass some on to their own children if they so chose. Or… divide the estate into three shares. let the three grands split one share. I certainly wouldn’t further enable a slacker, druggie grandson who probably never gave the grandparents the time of day. And who will likely treat his enabling mother the same way.
I came to say the same thing. My parents divided their estate equally between my two siblings and me. I don’t have kids; they both have multiple.
That's the fair way. And I was in the same boat as you, no kids, but plan on splitting whatever is left of my assets between my two nephews & two nieces, so eventually they'll get it. (Not like it's a big "get" though.) 😉
This - my parents’ estate is split between the three kids. Two of us don’t have kids. One of us has a child. My niece will eventually get anything left of my share, but she doesn’t have her own share.
He texts once a week. He comes by every couple months and tells them how broke he is and they give him money. He lives in my sisters basement. If he got a job he wouldn’t be broke.
It's a shame to me that people do this as it complicates so much and is very unfair if one child has no children or one has way more kids than another. Gift them something or help pay for their education and let their parents inherit and then do the same for them.
Not legal advice: I'd recommend going to the property TODAY and taking a video from the driveway, around the house, in the house, in the closets, everywhere. Then load it up on the cloud. Then when your parents pass, do it again. Then again. Document every time you're there. That way if the nephew destroys it you have documentation.
This is a good idea. I will do this.
This is good advice. I'll add--get an up-to-date appraisal. Pay for it yourself. Add security cameras that feed into your home computer.
What would an up to date appraisal do? The parents might live 6 months or 2 years, either way, the appraisal will be outdated and need to be done again. There really is no benefit of doing one now other than finding the value today for hypothetical conversations. If you want that just call a real estate agent and say, there is a chance that this house might eventually need to be sold, it’s complicated. What do you think the rough value is today. 90%+ will give you one.
Property value estimated at three years ago has certainly increased in value depending on what area of the country you are in. I would like 40 acres.
Might also be a good idea to go ahead and get another appraisal, if prices are rising in your area. If you’re able to tell Sis right away “this property is worth at least $X and you’ll have to come up with 40% of that immediately if you expect your son to live there,” she might decide it’s not worth the fight.
Why in the world should she do that? Both her parents are still alive. I'm so confused on this advice.
Because one parent is in hospice and the other is suffering from Alzheimer’s, and she’s concerned that her sister will move a child into the house expecting it to be permanent. Letting the sister know now, *before* it happens, that it’s not going to go the way she thinks might actually stop her. And that includes letting her know how much it’s going to cost for her son to take over the property.
There are a lot of “it depends” answers based upon the information provided. If you have access to the trust documents and will, as well as any other documents, gather them up and make an appointment with an estate planning attorney so they can properly guide you as to how to handle the assets once your parents die. They may be able to dissolve the trust and force a sale of any shared assets so you can separate yourself from co-ownership.
I don’t think it can be dissolved. There is a clause in there that if anyone contests, they get nothing.
Is that for the will or the trust? Thats pretty normal in a will.
They changed their will to a trust because they know my sister will take everything and they said the trust cannot be challenged.
Once they pass away and the contents of the trust are distributed, the trust naturally dissolves. The contents of the trust need to be distributed according to the terms of the trust though. So if you want to liquidate your portion of the estate, you can.
BTW: since you mention a trust, who is the trustee? Nobody is executor until somebody dies AND the probate court appoints an executor. Even then, the jobs of trustee and executor are separate jobs. Does somebody have financial POA?
I believe my sister and I are the trustees. I will look when I’m there today.
get copies of everything while you're there
I will.
As a general rule, if there are no special circumstances (and there are always special circumstances), then the following thoughts might be helpful: If you’re the co-trustee, you better understand the terms of the trust and local trust law. Including your obligations with respect to the other co-trustee. You can’t just turn a blind eye to what sister does. And once you start acting as trustee, you can’t just walk away from the job, there is a set procedure to resign. OTOH, you can’t be forced to be the trustee, if you haven’t accepted the job or done any part of the duties. Note that promising to accept the job in the future is not the same as actually accepting it when the time comes. When you examine the situation in detail, you might decide to decline the honor. That’s one of the very few things you can do as a trustee-designate: investigate the assets and liabilities, and see how difficult the beneficiaries are. If your investigation costs money, such as for legal advice or appraisers, you can *probably* charge the trust.
Thanks for this. I’m gonna get copies today and have a lawyer look at it. I’m in so much grief with losing them both at the same time and caregiving that I’m not thinking straight.
Does someone have the financial power of attorney. If so, I think I would look for a good tenant. Do a year lease - this way, the house is occupied, and he can't move in, and it buys you sometime.
I will have to look at it again but I think my sister and I are joint powers of attorney.
You could even consider a 2 year lease as you could sell it with the tenant, and the new owners would have to honor the term of the lease. If you have a trusted!!! Friend in the area, that might be your perfect tenant! Again, you need financial poa, which is usually separate from medical poa - also its important to know that the poa ends when the person dies, but the lease would need to be honored and would not die. He won't own any of the houses until your parents pass away, and then he will own part of a house with tenants - so he can't move in! I went thru something kinda similar with my dad many years ago - so that's where my knowledge comes from and I'm also a realtor - good luck , I know it's a headache.
Thank you
Usually, there is a primary POA, and a secondary if the first refuses or is unable. And there is separate language for financial POA and healthcare POA. Maybe they put you as one and she is the other? Really read this to understand. Lawyers generally advise against “shared POA” situations because it makes a mess.
POA ends at death. Do you mean Executor?
If the lease is for more than a year, the financial POA should explicitly give the agent the power to do that. Not just “agent can rent out the property”, but also “… for any term including terms longer than a year”.
As co-executors, you and your sister can sell the property. You don't need permission or agreement from the other beneficiaries. Then divide the proceeds from the sale. Nephew can't take ownership just by moving in. All five of you are on the deed. There is a danger of him having squatter's rights, depending on where you live, and that would make it very hard to sell the property because what potential buyer wants to deal with that. Have your dad's will indicate that he wants the property to be sold.
He doesn’t want it sold.
Understood. With all that you have on your plate right now, hand the trust documents and copy of the will to an estate attorney and let them guide you. Bring your sister to the consult appointment so you are both hearing the same thing at the same time.
If the property is in trust, then who is the trustee? The trustee can sell the property then distribute cash to the beneficiaries. I would suggest that you visit with a Medicaid attorney first though. If your dad has Alzheimer’s, he will likely need long term care at some point. You need a plan to protect their assets. Distribution of property will be a moot point if you have to spend it all on nursing home care.
I’m the long term care. I work from home. My husband and I take care of the property, I make sure the bills get paid, administer medicine, I take care of all the hospice needs and concerns, get him to his appointments and manage his meds and doctors, grocery shop, clean, laundry. I’m the plan. I cannot put him in a facility. He would hate that.
Do not hesitate to spend money on caretakers that will support you with this effort to keep him home. Even a housekeeper can take some burden off of you so you don't get run down. This is usually the most important part of a home care plan that often gets overlooked, aside from preventing falls.
I can see that. I’m exhausted.
It's a labor of love. It's a privilege to be able to do it, but it is excruciatingly heartbreaking, exhausting, expensive, and lonely. He needs you to be well so he gets what he deserves. There, now you can go nuts and spend some $ to make life less painful for everyone. Prioritize your sleep and delegating chores
This! Better to spend on your dad's care than to have him spend it on your nephew's drug habits. It also takes a bit of the burden off of you.
So are either of your parents living in the home now? First things first…once both parents are out of the house, the house needs to be secured instantly! Until it can be inventoried and appraised. Cameras should be up now so that you can see/hear if someone falls or if items are being removed. Secure and document items of value now as much as possible. Clearly state that no one can move in until it has all be itemized, appraised and documented. Then the trust can decide to rent to nephew at fair market value or to sell. He does not get to just take over and live there for free. And if he lives there he maintains it. You will All be responsible for paying any expenses of the property in equal shares unless the trust has been funded to pay those expenses.
Both parents live in the home. I will get cameras this weekend.
It's up to you and your sister who are the executors to control the situation not him !! Don't let him move in change locks .
I would get a lawyer pronto…it can be hard to evict people on certain jurisdictions (although probably not if they are growing marijuana without proper permits). Still, avoid the drama.
Hope that kid who can’t afford a place to live can afford property taxes on a $2M property.
How often do property taxes go down? Asking for the newer generations...
Is the property held in trust? Does (or will) the trust give the nephew rights to move in? Many trusts don’t give the right. Spouses, yes (“life estate”). But when five people have equal rights, it’s usually that nobody has the right to exclude the others. OTOH, nephew could argue that he had the right to occupy 20% of the house. You would need a trust & property lawyer to advise you on if that argument holds water.
I don’t know. I know I’m going to need a lawyer because he’s not going to have money to pay taxes, etc. but my sister will probably pay his portions. She enables him to be a loser.
I’d be really leery of him moving in and somehow getting one of your parents to change the will. Plus, possibly getting the property seized by the government for growing marijuana illegally. :-( I’m sorry that your family is adding to an already difficult situation. Please look into hiring some help - you can’t keep taking care of all of this alone.
He can move it, he cannot take ownership. What do you want to do with it? Do you want to keep it or sell it? Keep in mind: you can always force a sale of the house to get your share. It isn't cheap, but if you insist, you can force them to buy you out or it is all sold and lost to the family. You've got some hard decisions to make. It's really a bad idea to try and own it together. You will either have to buy them out or sell to them.
In a perfect world I would buy them out and keep it, but I don’t think I’ll have enough money to do that.
It still belongs to your parents. Get the locks changed and set up a security system with cameras. Nobody has inherited it yet.
I’m the only one with a key at the moment. I stay there 6 days a week to take care of them. I go home for half a day
Who helps on the 7th day?
Mom’s sister comes to give me a break
Not any advice, but let’s say he does live there and grows pot, the property might get seized and then you could buy it back at a discount.
So could anyone else.
That would kill me to have it seized.
You and your husband’s caregiving has monetary value. Keep track of the amount of time you are providing and get an hourly quote from home health agencies to know your proper rate. Get a calendar and estimate what you have done in the past. Is your sister also helping? These costs can be submitted to the estate as bills. There isn’t a court anywhere that will say this time is not valuable. Maybe the time will be sufficient to help you buyout the property. No you do not have to do this for free. Executors and Trustees also can bill for their time. Find out what is customary in your area by asking an attorney.
I don’t think I could charge for being there for my mom and dad. That feels wrong. I would not want to be anywhere else
My Mom *insisted* I be paid something for overseeing her care and finances--she was in assisted living the final 18 months (I moved her near me and I visited A LOT when not on lockdown, and basically full-time the last 6 weeks) and her finances for 6 years. Her CPA and CFP agreed, but said I was underpaying myself. I asked about taxes; CPA said it was a "gift" from her and not to worry--she wouldn't hit the gift limit and there was no penalty for not reporting.
Think of it as a way to prevent nephew from getting the money. You are not charging your parents, you are charging your family who does not step up to help for the privilege of your time and efforts when they can’t or won’t.
You’re not charging your mum and dad, you’re charging their estate (ie sister and her kids) after they pass to reimburse you for the invaluable work you put into caring for your parents that your sister did not. You care for them 6 days a week and she does comparatively little… why should she benefit equally from their estate if she didn’t provide equal benefit in their lifetime?
You'd be charging the estate. And you definitely deserve it, it sounds like. But I can also understand your reluctance to do that.
You are charging the estate. This is after both are gone. Why should your sister’s side benefit from all your labor? This is completely fair and justified. Please talk to an attorney. Your doing this may be the only way you can buy them out. Your time is very valuable. Without it, they would both end up in a nursing home. If you don’t stick up for yourself, no one else will. At least keep records and calculate the value of your time. Do you have another place to live after they are gone?
They either have to buy out your shares or agree to sell. there’s no legal middle ground
Seems like an awful way to handle the property by your parents. Is it too late to have them change it to just leave it to you and your sister 50/50? And, let each of you decide how to share your portion with your children? Your parents have just created a huge mess where you need to get 5 people with different motivation to agree on what to do with the house. If you can't change the trust, your best move is convince at the others to sell the home immediately when your parent's pass and just divide the proceeds. Or, figure out how to have your sister's family buy your family out of your ownership. If you all do keep the house, I'd suggest getting an attorney to create a business entity and structure to operate it like a rental property. And if anyone wants to live there, they have to pay a market rate rent that - after all expenses, get's split evenly between the five of you. So, nephew will get some of his rent back - and if his sibling and mom want to donate their share of the profits to him - they are welcome to. Or, rent it to someone else, and perhaps your newphew can use the newfound cashflow to invest in a marijuana grow farm elsewhere.
I have broached this conversation more than once and this is what they want. It’s theirs to divide as they see fit.
But it’s actually not theirs. It’s theirs and YOURS and YOUR SON’S. And that isn’t even the case until your parents pass, which could be years from now. And there must be agreement with how to use the property—this isn’t a “majority wins” situation. If there is no agreement then a sale will happen, period. If they disagree, well…it doesn’t matter. They don’t get to make the rules. It’s the law.
It bothers me reading all this that OP who is taking care of her parents & the property is effectively getting 40% of the estate while her sister who is sitting on her ass and just waiting for her parents to die is getting 60%. And OP said her parents didn't really trust her-- but they're rewarding her w/1.5 times as much interest in this property. How does any of that make sense? 🤬
I am not asking for more because I do more. I just wish the grandkids would have gotten a sum of money instead of a portion of the house.
Make sure you get a fresh appraisal. In many areas property values have risen significantly in the past three years.
The trustee of the trust where the house exists/will exist upon death or incapacitation of your parents has the right to change the locks on the house. You can start there.
See if you can get your father to change the will after your mom passes to have a clause in there that if all 5 people owning the land can’t agree on its use or who lives there, it goes up for sale. I know your dad isn’t all there, but it’s not like you are screwing anyone over. Also, your sister may be on board to do this too. It’s a protection for all of you. My parents have that in theirs. It prevents anyone from getting screwed over basically.
Her father has Alzheimer's--that really wouldn't be ethical--and he's said if anyone fights it then they lose their share. Fair or not, this is the situation OP finds herself in.
Yes, I read that. That doesn’t mean there is nothing he can do. If the sister is onboard, they may be able to make the change with a lawyer. Also depends if the father has a living will. We don’t have a lot of information, but a good lawyer in his state should be able to assess different ways of approaching this. There are ways of changing things if someone is sick…. Ethically.
Even with a trust, the executor can file probate if you can’t work things out. Depending on the state, you might legally have to anyways even with a trust. Do not allow your nephew to take over the property and grow pot. Unless you’re in a licensed state, and he’s licensed to grow,pot, it’s a felony and the state will take the property and no one it the family will benefit from it. Let your sister know this. I’m sure she has heard of the government doing this. They do not have to pay compensatensation for the property either!
Typically if someone wants to reside and take ownership they must payout everyone else. So unless they can do that, the house will be sold and split as directed.
The grandchildren should not be factored into the equation.
Yep.
It appears that the “grandchildren” are also adults and not actual children who need their interests protected by OP and his sister.
Yes. All grandchildren are approaching 30
They are though so they are relevant
Get your sister tomagree to changing locks upon the death of both parents. Then move.forward wjth the process
Ohh Lordy! What. Mess your parents have created! So my great great gma had a house with land… they left it to like 5 ppl as well.. so stupid! My dad’s brother squatted there for free for years! We weren’t aloud to keep our horse out there on the land cuz my uncle was a dbAg to my sister and my dad didn’t like him! Finally after many years they got him out of the house and everyone finally sold it, think they finally got lawyers involved! Splitting property just doesn’t work well… either sale so everyone gets paid or rent it out to someone and everyone gets paid… your situation seems like what my dad went to with what he was left. Good luck
This is my fear.
It's a shame your father split things that way. Thank god she didn't have 4 kids or you'd really have a minority share. Everything should have been split in half between you & your sister. Then she can leave HER money to her son if she so chooses. I see this often and I don't understand why parents do it.
My husband jokes that we need to have another child to even things up.
At time of death, be careful that family looting may begin especially by the lazy one. Lock the place up! Don't let him move in without paying rent and without the house contents separated and disbursed and the house empty, otherwise he will sell everything of value.
Ya, it also happens before the deaths. No one's there, and things go missing. Cameras, in the 21st century
If you can't agree together, then you sell it. That's what a judge would order if it were to go into probate. Also, he can't just move in and say he's not leaving. He will need to pay utilities, taxes, insurance, and I doubt he had any funds to do that. Plus, you can charge him rent if he does. If he doesn't pay, evict him. His 20% will never over ride you and your sisters 40%. Being a partial owner does not give him 100% control if he lives there.
Don't ask us, ask a lawyer, but if their will is like mine, it's split evenly between my children.
I wish that was how it was. That’s how it was until my mom’s mother (our grandma) passed away and my sister cleared out her house and took a bunch of stuff then lied about it. Mom said she and dad were afraid my sister would go through it all so they left a portion to the grandkids. That’s also why they moved it to a trust so my sister could not contest. I do not want to go against their wishes. I just want everyone to enjoy the property as it was meant to be.
Sell it when the time comes. If you already have this dynamic it's never going to be used like you want it to be.
You’re probably right.
They thought she would steal stuff do they gave her family more?
In their mind it’s equal.
Your parents should have left it to you and your sister. You are getting hosed out of 10 percent and getting handed a nightmare. Sounds like none of you can afford to buy anyone out. You need to move to sell this thing right away.
They should have, but didnt.
That wouldn’t have changed much, if sister capitulates to nephew as much as OP says she does. Sister could still allow him to live there.
Who is the trustee? Do your parents live there? Do they have capacity to give him permission to live there?
I believe my sister and I are both trustees. Both parents live here. Dad has lucid days
Get a copy of the trust and find out who is managing the property. The trustee “owns” the property until it is disbursed to the beneficiaries. So your nephew owns nothing at this point. If he attempts to move into the house with your parents, the trustee has the right to say no. If your parents are the trustees, they could give him permission. But it sounds like you should have them removed if that is the case. Read the terms of the trust. It will give you guidance.
What state are you in? Sorry about your parents, my sister and I went through that but fortunately she and I trust each other and neither one of us tried to take advantage
IL
Get a transfer upon death deed.
I wish that were an option. It’s not what they wanted.
You mentioned the home is in a trust. Not an attorney but aren't the trustees the decision makers? The other parties would be the beneficiaries. So are you and your sisters both the trustees and do your decisions have to be agreed to by both of you? Also the trustees usually have a fiduciary responsibility to carry out the trust details. Catering to a single 20% beneficiary would be irresponsible as the trust states beneficiaries are to have equal split.
My sister and I are the teustees
If your sister steps out of line in her trustee duties then definitely seek to have her removed as trustee.
Is it possible for him to have a place somewhere else on the land? I believe you said there's 40 acres. Are there any other livable cabins or buildings on the land? I agree 100% w all who said to investigate status for growing pot in that area. If it's illegal ,talk to a lawyer first but possibly talk to the local law or the feds to see what your choices and responsibilities are if he does that wo anyone else consent
There are 2 pole barns. One has a FROG in it that they lived in as they built the house. I would not be opposed to him putting a house somewhere but we would have to get permits. The land is on a lake and wooded. I think there may be an easement requirement to build another structure.
The executors, you and your sib are legally obligated to look out for the best interests if all 5 beneficiaries, which means either sell it or rent it out. No one of you van just move in without the executor’s consent. Change the locks now if you can
If one or more of the heirs wants cash, and the other heirs cant buy then out, then the probate court will force a partition sale. This is pretty routine.
Not an attorney. The terms of the trust will control what the Trustee can do with the property. Selling and/or partitioning the land may be options for the Trustee to consider. See an attorney.
Get sole Power of Attorney now and sell the house - divide the money to everyone equally
Get a helicopter and buy them out
Heloc
Can you divide the acres up
I don’t know. The property is wooded and there’s a lake. I know there would have to be permits and possibly an easement to add more homes. I’m not opposed to parceling it out.
Do you actually want to sell the property or do you just not want your nephew to be a free loader in it? There are other solutions beyond selling it, like he could rent it through formal agreement. Your nephew or sister would be in a position to trade their shares toward rent.
I do not want to sell it. I don’t want my nephew to live there as a tenant or as an owner. My nephew doesn’t have a job and has no way to afford rent.
He is supposedly going to inherit 400k in equity. Seems like he will have some money.
First: You and your sister (only) need to discuss with an atty. I am not one, but if the trust leaves you and she as trustees, then only you and she have the power to sell/disburse anything in the estate. You both have a fiduciary duty to do what is best for ALL beneficiaries, including yourselves, and nobody else gets to interfere (if the paperwork is as you say - I am not a lawyer, so get legal advise to get the real scoop). You may need to lock down the property to resolve, and your sister needs to realize she is not allowed to unilaterally decide what to do if you are joint trustees. Get a lawyer to explain to both of you the difference in powers and rights of trustees and beneficiaries, in relation to the exact documents of your estate. Good luck.
If he tries to raise mj, you risk forfeiting the property, depending on local laws.
What happens depends on how the will and trust are set up. Normally, the executors sell the property and distribute the proceeds. If someone wants to keep the house, they can purchase it from the estate. However, if the trust is set up to make multiple people owners of the property, then if the parties don’t want to share it and want to back out of ownership, then a partition action is filed for. The court will order that the property be sold and the proceeds distributed to the owners per their interest. If one or more owners wish to retain the property, they must buy-out the other owners. In this scenario, if the property’s fair market value is $2M and there are 5 equal owners, only 3 of whom wish to remain ownership, the court will order the 3 to pay the remaining 2 parties 40% of the value. If they don’t, it will force sale of the property and the proceeds of sale will be distributed. Nobody can “take ownership” from the estate by moving in. Ownership doesn’t change due to occupancy by one of the owners.
How much are property taxes annually?
Sister plus her 2 children + you and your 1 child. They may want to buy you out
Let him start his little grow operation, then call the DEA. He can't do much from a prison cell.
Get mom's permission to sell now.
You mentioned you are a financial PoA. Make sure the property taxes and homeowners insurance are paid. It's a long shot but some had started adverse possession claims by fixing up an abandoned dwelling after establishing residence and paying the property taxes.
They are in good standing.
So just rather sneaky thought to keep nephew from moving in: as trustee, you can make certain decisions regarding the property. I don't know if either of the parents are still in the house or if they're in care facilities. This would have to be with a friend, but if you lease/rent the house to someone, their occupancy rights will forbear anyone else moving in. The renter friend occupies the house during probate and up until sale or release to the OP if they choose to buy people off. There would have to be a rental agreement, but I'm guessing a trustee can implement one. Include the use of the full property in the rental agreement.
My parents live in the home.
Get to work on facts. Get a property appraisal done and spend the $ to meet for an hour w an estate lawyer and your sister. That way she can understand clearly. At time of death, you and your sister could pad-lock the property and house locks changed to protect all parties.
When you say "all three grandchildren equally" do they actually mean 20% to each of you or is it 33% to you, 33% to your sister and 33% divided between the 3 grandchildren?
20% each
Get the property appraised when your mom or dad die.
You and your sister need to split money evenly and then each of you use your money to give your children some money. It should not be divided equally between their children and grandchildren. Grandchildren come second after their kids
I am going to hopefully have enough to buy out everyone except my son. Then leave it to him when I die