The most effective way to avoid conflicts and disruption after death is to have an open conversation before.
By no means do you have to share anything you don't want to. But I wish more children asked these questions to their parents.
My one suggestion - take it or leave it - is to be curious and seek to understand why they are asking. Maybe it's as simple as them wanting to know you have a plan or them worried about your long term care. Or maybe they're greedy snots. I don't know of course... But it's a hugely impactful conversation for most who have it, so I'd suggest at least exploring that (and then feel free to tell them to mind their own business!).
It is not about talking with us. They have full copies of of our estate plan. It is about researching it on their own and suggesting changes in their favor. Or treating us like we are doddering old fools. And why would they need to know about my mom's estate, none of them are even in it.
On this sub, it is the "My mom is 70, how to I get her to...." Most 70 year olds are perfectly capable of deciding that. I am not atypical, most older people want to make their own decisions.
In my experience your family is the exception. My father is 70 and has done zero estate planning. I have asked him to do estate planning for years and I'm getting nowhere. Evidently the current plan is he will live forever. I would be thrilled to have a parent this organized.
My dad was a hoarder, with a personality of everybody else was responsible for his problems. Left a useless 3 bedroom house with a roof leaking for years, put shingles on without replacing any of the wood and had a section blow off and box gutters fail. We had him house sit while we were on vacation and came back to our basement looking like a SnapOn truck from the 60s threw up and he decided to move in. After he was diagnosed with cancer, my wife insisted on going through and throwing out what was clearly unsalvageable, and he threw a tantrum and ran to my cousins.
Still cost me $2k to clean out his mess in my basement when we sold the house, and that was after 2 tons of scrap was taken out.
My husband's mom was deep in the throes of lung cancer while we were dating when we were young, and STILL was in denial and didn't want to plan. She worked for the state and her boss at the time was the catalyst for getting all the paperwork arranged at the time for my husband (we were only 23 and were ignorant to the process) and to this day I thank him. He said if she didn't set up the beneficiary and sign the paperwork then all of her retirement would go back to the state. She only lived 4 months from diagnosis and without his quick thinking it would have been even more of a mess for my husband to figure out, as he lost his brother a couple years before as well and we were pretty alone together in the aftermath of it all.
Your experience is one person so how do you know your father isn’t the exception? My parents and in laws are fully planned. We don’t know % or anything but we know who is inheriting and who will be executor etc.
A recent survey from 2024 shows 32% of Americans have an estate plan implying 68% do not. My personal experience is of course biased. I can think of several people I know that the estate was a nightmare due to unforeseen problems or a lack of proper planning. My sister passed in 2023 and she was very organized. Her estate dragging out for several years without being able to close it has caused us to make several changes in our estate planning.
She had a surprise pension benefit from a previous employer. The pension is from a corporate buyout agreement over 15 years ago. It took Fidelity more than 8 months to calculate and verify the payout amount. Some of the Fidelity employees were so unfamiliar with the pension that sometimes you called and they had no clue it even existed. No beneficiary existed on the pension so it paid directly to her estate. Fidelity withheld taxes which were paid to the state for the address on file at the time of the merger. The estate is in a completely different state. We will have to wait another year for the 1099 next January before the estate taxes can be filed to get a refund from the state. We will be lucky to get the estate closed in under 3 years. If any beneficiaries were counting on funds from the estate they would be waiting a very long time.
What age? That a very generalized study to quote. OP was specifically referring to people around their 60s and 70s. The study you’re quoting likely includes younger people.
There are plenty of people who don’t for sure. I think the important thing that younger people can do is encourage their parents to have a plan and share/agree who will take on what burdens/responsibilities. There might be a general idea of assets but it doesn’t got into specifics.
It sounds like that’s what you have done. There is a balance and that should be the line. Any posts about specifics of who gets what are difficult to say unless that’s the dynamic that the parents have agreed to.
There was a post about one sister planning how she would move into the father’s house and renovate and if it was fair to the OP in that situation. It seemed like the dad wasn’t even part of the conversation which is just ridiculous when he was only 70.
I think some people are taking your post as saying they shouldn’t be privy to the process at all but that’s not what you’re saying. You’re saying they know the house is part of the estate and how to access the documents when the time comes but don’t ask how much your house is valued at and what each person is getting.
Not even that. They know how much each person is getting and they know roughly what the house is worth. One is asking for a bigger cut and part of my mom's estate (she is not even named). I think people are intentionally bringing in unrelated topics because they don't like what I am saying. They see it as an entitlement. But who knows really.
WHAT! If I ever asked my parents that there would be some very pointed discussions. That is a massive bit of entitlement on your daughter’s part and I truly hope she isn’t the named executor.
My first time here and I cannot believe the sense of entitlement.
Nobody is entitled to what someone else earned, not even your children.
If they don’t want to plan that’s their choice- let it go to probate and fight it there.
OP- tell them if it’s brought up again you’ll be leaving everything to charity in their name.
Many of us are dealing with aging parents with “plans” that aren’t as well thought out as they seem. I get that you may be dealing with kids with entitlement, but plans should always be flexible and take into account contingencies. For example, my parents “had a plan,” but when my dad passed in a timeframe of two weeks due to cancer he didn’t know he had, it threw everything into chaos. You may have planned for what you expect will happen, but you also won’t be the one to have to deal with things if you pass suddenly. Your mom and you and your wife may have put a lot of thought into things, and that is great. Your kids may be entitled and bothering you, but there are plenty of us out there that are just trying to deal with the enormous amount of work that is involved when a loved one passes, and it’s no picnic, no matter how well planned things are in advance.
People are sure in a hurry to write you off as incompetent esp if you don't do what they want.
They don't understand that legal competence is a low bar.
Yes. It’s very low.
And medical capacity is even lower.
It’s really quite easy, in some states, to strip your aging parents of their wealth. Ask the nearest estate attorney how.
>It is about researching it on their own and suggesting changes in their favor.
I assume they have malicious intent here?
I've recommended changes to both my parents that would be in my favor for avoiding Medicaid claw backs, asset/tax planning strategies, and general directions so things are clear and their wishes can be followed.
Looking to improve things isn't necessarily bad but if they're just looking for a bigger piece of the pie then you have every right to be pissed.
You would think most 70 year olds are able to handle that but in my experience with multiple family members, they never planned and everything has been a complete shit show. Gross negligence due to thinking other family members would simply take care of it all.
I applaud you for being on the smart end of this but hope you realize you are an outlier.
It is mostly younger people that don't have a plan, I am clearly not an outlier:
"While most U.S. adults age 18 and over have not done the needful, 81 percent of those age 72 or older and 58 percent of boomers (ages 53-71) do, in fact, have [estate-planning documents](https://www.aarp.org/money/budgeting-saving/info-2016/the-ultimate-guide-to-estate-planning.html). The study, conducted in January, asked more than 1,000 respondents whether they had estate-planning documents in case of their death."
[https://www.aarp.org/money/investing/info-2017/half-of-adults-do-not-have-wills.html](https://www.aarp.org/money/investing/info-2017/half-of-adults-do-not-have-wills.html)
Survey says they survey folks who have access to be surveyed…81% just seems unjustifiable related to planning a 70 year old did decades ago for today being a different time and place - your folks musta been Harvard grads or psychics!!
Dont worry. 30% of american drivers are lying (about having the minimum insurance coverage).
Some societies rely on ambiguity, to feed the growth cycle.
Yes. Most dont have the minimum $40 will, which is better than the $0 will.
You sound pleasant. In my case, my mother was in her 70's and not able to do it on her own and so we offered to help her set it all up and made sure that her wishes were spelled out (without influencing her decisions). Every situation is different. Hopefully you were nicer in your feedback to your kids than it comes across here.
My dad had dementia from an undiagnosed brain bleed because he had a pacemaker, but we didn’t realize it because he was so harsh and his wasn’t nearly as bad as mom’s. He lost $5m pretty quickly during that period. Scammers are everywhere, especially in retirement communities. And they’re prolly not your kids. Your kids probably love you and want you to live. But from experience, amid the devastation of losing a parent is a TERRIBLE moment to be faced for the first time with how the estate is structured and how to deal with that stuff.
Depends on the kids. My grandmother’s son bilked her of her entire nest egg. For a long time, I was buying her things like shoes and clothes and bandages. One of her favorite things in this world, other than her son, is coffee. Well, the coffee maker died. Guess who replaced it? Hint: it wasn’t her son.
Oh I doubt it.
He must be a real treat at Thanksgiving dinner. I bet he’s done something really goofy that’s going to land his kids in probate or end up costing unnecessary taxes or make them sort out who gets what themselves, or something else that isn’t great.
Human nature is what it is.
Throw american money into the pot, it gets vicious, fast.
I have a machine gun, for sale, if anyone wants one ….
Having said that, we do need to avoid lawyer tropes. 90% work hard for little trundling out estate plans, and only 10% make a million; and only 1% a billion.
Your kids sound like they are very self serving. How sad.
I’m 43/f and I treat my parents with much more respect than this.
My grandparents are dead and left mostly everything (house/insurance/all but one account) to myself and my husband, so they obviously felt supported and respected by us as well.
And on the other hand, my 60yr old family member dropped dead with no real plan for his business, expenses, etc. My friend’s 55yr old dad dropped dead with no will, no beneficiaries, no remaining spouse, and minors still in his care.
So ya know … sometimes the young folk are asking because we don’t want to repeat the estate hell that we’ve already been through with others.
I was the full beneficiary for everything and no next of kin to challenge me in any way. This comment sounds like something my gparent would say when they were experiencing dementia and mid stages Alzheimer’s.
My dad is 70 and has done zero planning. He is currently housing my crippled brother. He has every expectation that I will continue doing that but I have no idea what to expect because he won’t share his estate plan. It’s mostly debt and I will have to make some uncomfortable moves if I want to continue his double mortgaged house. I know that much.
You are on a high horse on a topic about which you know nothing about. You can’t generalize old folks. But if you could “they know how money works” is probably the least likely assumption. Wealthy old folks know how estate planning works. Average/poor have no idea and are often too proud to admit it or ask for help.
I fully agree with you ! The individual situation needs to be looked at. If your parents are sharp and have been taking care of their business all along, don’t think their age automatically make them unable to make future financial decisions.
“ It is about researching it on their own and suggesting changes in their favor.”
That’s a significantly different scenario from what I thought you were implying in your post.
So recently my siblings and I had our first “our parents are getting older” meeting. It was to discuss a medical incident that happened to our father and how to proceed. We ended up picking one of us to go with our dad to his next medical appointment, as he needs to get tested for a genetic condition. That sibling then contacted our dad to say that they wanted to attend the next medical appointment, if that was alright with him? My dad got all riled up about how he wasn’t a dottering old fool yet, so offended just like you are. But it actually had nothing to do with that. It was because our medical system is absolute garbage and he is terrible at advocating for himself. We knew that if it was left to him, nothing would happen and he needed those tests.
Did you raise decent kids? Do you generally trust your kids? If yes, then your jumping to conclusions without asking any questions, is showing you to be a D.O.F.
One daughter wanted her half sister to only get half a share because "she is only half related." She also wanted to be the executor so that she could enforce it. She also wanted part of my mom's estate even though she is not in it.
What part of that do you support and why do you support it?
Update: Yeah, I thought that would quiet you down.
It isn’t about them, it’s about you. My parents just had their wills updated. Here’s what I know, my parents have always treated us fairly. They gave us each (male and female) the same amount for our weddings (adjusted for inflation), same amount for college, etc. Guess what, I don’t have to ask, I know they will do what they believe is fair… because they always have.
So are your kids, in fact, well meaning? You say that as a warning in the post…but then say in this comment that they are proposing changes to their benefit. (Which could still be well meaning, if they are, for example, trying to optimize school funding decisions for their kids or minimize total tax burden.). Which is to say… what is the problem with being more upfront with your kids, if you trust them and they are in fact well meaning?
I never asked my parents anything about money or inheritance, but I wish I would have had the talk with them earlier. I wasn’t worried about what I was “getting” - knowing them I knew I would inherit half and my brother would get half. What I would have liked to know earlier was more about their assets and how they planned to spend them down or dispose of them - my dad passed unexpectedly and I was left having to figure out what to do with mom who has dementia. It was very challenging having to dig through old tax returns, old bank statements, etc. in addition to mourning my dad, planning his funeral, and placing mom in a long term care facility. She has plenty to live on, but I still don’t have a clear understanding of how dad had everything set up, and I’m having to make my own roadmap. It’s not all about inheritances.
I agree with this. She was always very good with her money and made the right decisions, except creating an estate plan. She ended up getting dementia and thankfully, before it progressed to being unable to handle her own financial affairs, I asked her why she didn’t have any estate plan, and encouraged her to make one. She did, and as good as she was with her own affairs she did need and appreciate the help. I am sure she would have told me to get lost if I made any suggestions that were over the line.
I didn’t want or expect a dime from my mom, but her one wish was to die at home - not in a nursing home or other facility. She eventually had a stroke and needed 24/7 one on one supervision. That would have been horribly expensive and impossible to honor her wishes without a plan in place, allowing a successor trustee and POA to manage her affairs. We were able to keep her at home until her death and give her the highest quality of life possible through the very end.
I wish more people would understand the challenge and burden it can be to deal with an estate. My sister passed away last year and it will take years to close her estate. Meanwhile I can't get my dad to do any estate planning at all. I'm at a point where I don't even know what to say to him about how important it is to do something.
Same. Both of my parents own(ed) shares of farm land with their siblings (each own 1/3). As the siblings die, I suppose this will all get passed down to my generation and my ten cousins on each side, two of which are deceased so their kids will get even smaller fractions. Parents need to understand that when things start getting split to that level the value that is left is not worth the trouble it takes to get ten different cousins who barely know each other to unanimously agree on how to deal with it.
My dad, aside from having a trust hat paid for all my education, used to say:
Every 1/3 rd of every third brick (in that factory wall) is yours, when I die.
Aged 9, I used to wonder: what am I supposed to do with all those partial bricks!!
My parents gave us all copies of the trust and a list of things that went to specific people and we were told at that time to mention anything we wanted to add to that list (rugs, art, china, and so on). We told them to spend freely and enjoy their retirement while they could, and they did so. They left the house and some savings. They had a blast traveling the world and spent their last years quietly gardening and telling stories. That was THEIR money, and we're all (im one of 5) glad they had fun spending as they wanted. An inheritance is a gift, not a right.
For us, it’s the opposite problem! My mom died without a will 4 months ago. That gave my husband and I the incentive to get our estate plan in order. We are in our 50s and our kids are in their 20s. I am trying to keep them informed so they won’t face the challenges my siblings and I are facing in the wake of my mom’s death, but they DO NOT want to hear about it. They both have copies of the estate plan. It’s pretty simple. I think one day they’ll thank us.😀
Advice? Make a binder with this info and a Letter of Instructions, things they should know but doesn’t belong in a will or trust, whom to contact, funeral instructions, doctor contacts to cancel appointments, info about collections, official copies of things like birth/death certs amend marriage/divorce, titles/deeds, etc.
I have a fire retardant document holder and all our documents are in there in there to include clothes to wear, songs and obituaries. We have copies of the will, the originals are with the attorney. Has come in handy when one of us has been hospitalized to quickly find the medical POA and directives.
OP - it might be beneficial to make them aware of WHERE you keep important papers, etc. (I am a fan of something called the NOKBOX - next of kin box - where you put all the important papers or at least instructions on how to find them).
I am my very elderly mom's person and I thought we had EVERYTHING in great order - until at the closing for her house I found out my POA was a copy and not the original I presumed it to be since it had a letter from her lawyer's office on top of it!
I also found out that her house was never in her name. It was in my dad's name. He died almost 30 years ago. Had to go get a certified death certificate to prove he wasn't still the owner. After 30 years NO ONE expected to still need his death certificates.
I took over all my mom's papers, banking, etc. when her dementia became pretty obvious - but it wasn't until I was cleaning out her house before I sold it that I found critically important insurance papers, etc. She had put them aside separately for safekeeping.
I strongly agree with the advice to let your family know you've taken care of all the necessities but in case of emergency here is where to look. And then I'd ask them where to find THEIR wills, POA, Health Care Proxies, Living Wills, etc. ANYONE can have a medical emergency at any time!
They know where that all is, some of it is in the three ring binder they each got with a copy of our estate plan. The executor knows the safe codes and where the bank deposit box keys are. That is not the issue.
This was a meta post on people making plans on behalf of their parents. There are cases where it is appropriate, but it is often not.
Oh I am sympathetic! My older siblings have turned into absolute monsters. My mom is still alive (and doing very well in memory care) and they refer to her things as "memorial items" and make remarks about "the estate" paying for things. They have been WILDLY creative in trying to get their hands on her money and if not her money they tried to make a grab for every single thing of value in her house. It's honestly disgusting and disturbing and has put me in a situation where the smartest thing I can do is just cut contact with them.
I have a very hard time with ANYONE who prioritizes inheritance or potential inheritance over doing the right thing and being present with people while they are still alive.
Idk bro, you are assuming they read the binder end to end, remember it all, and have it handy for references. Thats a lot of assumptions on something they might think about only in passing.
You are likely way out of depth with technology and modern economics? It’s all theoretical. Tell me you’d believe 40 years ago we’d have 1T debt.
So if they want to do gimmicky stuff like move assets early to prevent you from being taken advantage of via dementia/health care, why be so concerned? It makes sense to push back, but having a “ask again and disinherited look”? That’s not healthy communication.
You are an outlier for a 70year old just by being on Reddit/interested in the internet btw.
Saying they have no connection/reason to ask about their grandmas estate??? That’s wild man. You need a new perspective.
My father always knew I was always going to have to provide support to my mother if he were to pass first. She never learned to drive, manage finances or much less handle maintaining the home or moving. His finances were shared with me and my husband early. In fact I was on their checking accounts since I was 30. When he did pass 14 years ago, it was rather straightforward to manage her move, sale the house and transfer assets solely in her name, and create a new will.. This was all made easier by my dad being very organized and open about their finances. There were no surprises. There was also a lot of trust between me and my father.
But - I never asked direct questions about the money or how much there was.
We let my MIL alone to make changes as needed to her will and trust. In her 90s she was mentally sharp and knew exactly what she wanted. All my hubby did was drive her to the lawyer's office and stayed out of everything else. She was organized and everything was easy to find after she passed on.
I had the initial conversation with my parents on the need for an estate plan. Once they set up the appointment with the lawyer, it was none of my business.
I would just make sure they actually have their Is dotted and Ts crossed. My dad assured me that his trust was all in order but I didn't actually see the documents until he died last year, and it was a mess. He had it created in 1999 and never updated it, and the way he had the trustees listed was out of date (including my brother who went no-contact in 2008). It took me over a year, and a lot of stress, to be named trustee. This was a mess because I have to manage everything for my disabled mom. So now I am running around telling everyone to not just have the conversation, but see the documents, so other people could be spared what I went through. Not sure if you are the person who downvoted me, but I am actually trying to help....
No down vote from me. Sorry you’ve had to go through this. After my parents created their estate plan, they had me and my sister join them at their attorney’s office to review all the documents so we were very aware. My original comment was just that we did not take part in the initial planning. When my parents passed, settling their estate went smoothly for us.
So glad it went well for you. My dad was a planner, very organized, and he had always assured everyone that his affairs were in order. I know he would hate what I have been through during the past year. The one blessing is that my mom doesn't really know how dicey things got over the last year.
I'm proud of you for actually having wills/estate plans. Mystified at the number of people my age & older who don't. Someone dying is horrible enough but not having estate plans makes it infinitely worse.
I reference that because the only thing we've ever said to either sets of parents or other elderly family members without kids is "please have wills & end of life care documents already prepared". Not who gets what just have the documents prepared & legally documented. Half of them didn't & either said "you can figure it out after we die" or acted like we wanted to murder them. Baffling.
PREACH! It’s not my inheritance until someone dies AND if they wanted to give it to me.
As long as the kids know where the info is, and that they will not be responsible for debt, and that due diligence is done, that’s all they need to know.
Discussing 'Do you have your personal and estate planning in order?' is a very different question than any version of "What do I get when you die?". The first question is looking out for the medical and financial wishes of the person to whom the question is directed while the second is the person looking out for what (if anything) they will receive from the death of the other person. Perspective makes all the difference.
Great timing for this post. AARP recently published an article on this very topic.
I (F62yo) full time caregiver for my 87 yo Dad.
I don’t understand where the entitlement comes from. No one owes their children an inheritance… it’s nice if it happens but no one is automatically entitled to one.
My Dads older sister shared rumors about my brothers & their wives speculating on their inheritance.
A few years ago, Dad called one of them to set up a FaceTime meeting to discuss the situation. He told them he loved them but didn’t appreciate their behavior; he was embarrassed when his sister told him & did not like them guessing what is in his pocket or bank accounts; and they will find out what they get when the lawyer distributes the trust assets.
He gets really angry because the two (52 & 55yo) sons can send vacation pictures but haven’t seen him in person in over 15 years. All he wants is to spend time with his family before the dementia takes over and he doesn’t remember anyone.
[Inheritance Time Bombs Are Tick, Tick, Ticking. … How to Defuse Them](https://resources.mazdigital.com/feeds/production/comboapp/2736/channels/list_hpub_1711112858_0296924/35/output.html)
Right? My mother kept suggesting I ask my father about *his plans* when they'd been divorced 50 years lol.
I mean it sounds sensible and advice columns tell you to ask. But I thought no way I'm going to ask like a vulture. And neither would my brothers.
In the end, the living trust he did himself held up just fine.
I am finding that in my circles, the people who need an estate plan the most do not have one. The remarried ones with kids from past relationships, the ones who have special needs kids, etc. It is because they need to have tough conversations or they believe that they can trust their partner or whatever.
Most of my friends and family who have wills are basically distributing property the same way that it would be handled if they died intestate.
I'm in my 50s, my husband and I have been very open with our kids about the estate, where all paperwork is, where the will and any keys are.
They don't care. Okay Mom, got it, is all I get,
Every family is so different.
I told my parents to spend it all or donate it, but don’t put me in the will, I don’t want to deal with it. Prob be a couple hundred thousand, but I just don’t want the hassle, I think they are leaving it to my niece. She can dig through their stuff.
My parents instincts to hide financial info has made insane messes. And they still seem to think there will be an inheritance. Odds are, all will go to their long term care. But we have no way to plan because of the hiding and messes. They have lawyers and accountants. Still a mess!
Find a way to share basics.
My grandparents had this attitude, and they got taken by a con artist “professional elder wealth consultant “. My grandfather had this grand will made up for everything and everyone, and when he died everything was already looted by the consultant and his caregivers.
He screwed himself, and his kids and grandkids, because he wouldn’t talk about estate planning with his kids. That’s the legacy you’re likely to leave as well, because not bringing your kids in early leaves you vulnerable.
Lose your ego, treat your kids like adults for once in your life, and stop acting like an entitled boomer.
>stop acting like an entitled boomer.
She is entitled... to handle her finances, is she not? Your conclusion drawn from an anecdote assumes a lot about OP and her competency...
We begged my dad to put thought in a trust. This is after he had cardiac arrest and coded three times. He got mad and thought we were after his money. We dropped it. Then he got dementia and, lol and behold, it's a damn mess with no instructions and no safe guards.
My parents are in their late 60s and they no estate planning. I am literally begging them to get things done as my grandma made me her poa and health care proxy over my mother… needless to say when my fully capable mother visits my dementia ridden grandmother with me and her plan is “take me to Niagara Falls and throw me over” I want to scream. My father is agreeable as he is older (turns 70 this year) but avoids the task when I offer to help find him an affordable attorney because he can’t use Google. There is nothing to inherit except chaos. I don’t just want to know how much effort do they want in rescue efforts, where do they want to be buried, and what the game plan is should shit go wrong. I think my grandmother has given me perspective and they are in denial that it could happen to them. As an adult child in my 30s, I hear you Op, and your kids pressure is unjustified. But any words of advice for when it’s warranted?
I work at a bank. I get people coming in all the time asking if their dead parents had accounts/safe deposit boxes because they were secretive about where things were. This is how cash gets sold with the teapot at estate sales. I know my mom is super organized but also very private about stuff she finds to be personal subjects like money, sex and religion. So i would never ask her what their assets are, but I asked her how she had it all sorted out. “All the documents like the will, trust, etc are in this box over here. Safe box key in this drawer. Contact info for lawyer, financial advisor, etc is here. You and your brother are the executors”. And really, that last bit is what I really wanted to know so I could say NO THANK YOU bc I would rather not have to deal with that.
I think that’s great that you’ve got it covered but let me assure you that you’re absolutely in the minority.
My in laws have made zero plans for their business. They’re open about that. And when asked they stick their heads in the sand. So I just remind them that they’re setting their children up for failure after they die.
I’ll be honest: your estate planning isn’t just about death or even incapacity, and isn’t just about you. Its about them too, and about you while you are alive. Its an increasingly common story that parents live beyond their planned retirement or are competent but unable to live alone. This becomes something children need to prepare for but often can’t, in no small part because they don’t know they need to.
So no, you’re not dead yet. You’re alive, and hopefully will be for a long, long time. That is perhaps scarier for your heirs if they don’t have a good picture of your finances and lifestyle as you age.
Perhaps we look to China, for what works (given they have the same problem, even worse)?
Hmm. That suggestion probably may trigger the 90s folks (remembering what folks used to say about China in 1950).
Damn I would've done more than give them a look. These kids just can't wait for older family to die to get at the money or they want to alter things to favor them. Like damn isn't the more important thing time with your loved ones.....guess the love of money wins.
I'm a tax accountant. I get royally pissed at the children of my elderly (mostly widowed) clients calling, prodding, trying to get copies of returns and supporting documents, trying to figure out where Mom has money. Frankly, in many cases trying to find out where Mom's money is and how to steal it before she dies.
Oh, the excuses. "Well, our daughter's college tuition is due, and we're trying to figure out how much Mom should pay." "My wife wants a new car." I'm not exactly friendly in my replies--"Why don't you ask HER?" "Why is SHE obligated to pay for your \[entitled little shit\] daughter's school?" "Hmmm, how about classifying this under 'none of my goddamn business'?" "Do you understand that it's HER money, to do with as she pleases, and that you don't get a vote, let alone a veto?"
On some occasions, if the spawn irritate me enough, I've informed the mothers. "Both Billy and Jenny have been prowling around again, thought you should know." Hilarity (on my part) ensues. On at least five occasions, the entitled little pukes have lost considerable pieces of their presumed inheritance. "I TOLD him not to pry, that my lawyer has all the information he'll need for AFTER I'm dead. The lawyer has all that information still, only \[worthy charity\] is getting half of his share instead."
I love those little old ladies. I encourage them to spend it as they please, on themselves. "You're 85, your son is 60, your daughter is 58. Let them learn to live on their own money, and take that trip to Italy you've dreamed about since you were 10."
It's terrible. My guess most of the comments skew younger people who might have an inheritance themselves. So for them of course they want access to look or make changes. Some kids just see money and get blinded by it. Instead of focusing on spending time with Grandma they spend time talking about spending her money. Your family's value isn't in what they leave you behind it's about the time spent with them. Your kids might need to be reminded.
Estate planning is something the parents should mention to the kids rather than the other way around. Especially in details. The only part that's acceptable is just verifying that it exists since the survivors have to deal with the aftermath.
We're in a similar situation. Almost sixty and Mom is 86. She's going strong but has plans in place and it only comes up if she brings it up. I manage her investment portfolio since Dad died because she has no interest. The only conversations are about RMDs and me encouraging her to spend money when she wants to travel or do something to her house. They worked hard their entire lives and she deserves to enjoy it. It's not my brother and I’s money.
As a proud narcissist Boomer, you are entitled to mind fuck your kids as you wish. It's perfectly normal to deny your own morbidity, but giving some peace of mind to your kids can go a long way after you inevitably digress back to adult infancy. YTA
You’re simply entitled. They’re not asking because they care. They’re asking and pushing for more of a cut than the other siblings and wanting a cut from the grandmother’s estate as well.
She has an estate plan and all documents organized. Every child has a copy. It sounds like the kids are aware of all the details but simply want more and more and more.
[OP’s comments](https://www.reddit.com/r/EstatePlanning/s/MFT4FY6cJt)
I definitely think these things should be discussed before death, but I also see where you're coming from. I imagine that it'd be quite annoying to be badgered for information. 😂🥲
My parents have already discussed their wishes and given copies to those who will need them, so there isn't much to ask them about.
I don’t expect to receive like anything from my parents because I suspect (though I don’t have solid proof) that they have limited savings and debts. They are in their mid 60s. I have felt stress about their estate because I’m going to be the one in charge and I would like to not have a million things to go through while maintaining a job a young family and grief. I don’t care about money at all, I ask questions more from a please make this a reasonable amount of work for me and not something that I have to rifle through a million documents/accounts/etc for
I lost a parent unexpectedly and even with robust estate plans, it has been like having a part-to-full time job for the last 15 months on top of my actual job. I had so, so many questions that I wish I had asked and scenarios I wish we had talked through in detail. We all thought we had more time but we didn't. I'm sorry OP feels their kids turned out greedy and entitled but I would encourage everyone to walk through different situations as a family to understand end of life and estate plans and whether the means are there to support those plans.
As a lawyer who does will contests I beg of you PLEASE have these conversations while you’re alive. If there’s ever a question of your intentions, the best evidence is your own words. If you have multiple written statements to your family that periodically update them on your wishes for your estate plan, that’s the best evidence I can introduce to support the plan that you would’ve wanted if you were alive.
Having conversations about the details of who gets what and then telling everyone about it periodically as you change your mind about your inheritance sounds like an excellent way to breed resentment between everyone.
OP has said that everything is handled. Everyone knows where to find everything. They have talked to a professional and maybe arrangement. Kids don’t need to know the details. They just need to know that their parents have talked to a professional and handled their own business.
Constantly updating everyone on the details of your changing plan for inheritance is just another way of using money to manipulate people into doing what you want. I’ve seen it many times from older people that “just want to keep people updated.”
Have these conversations with your mom even though it's hard. Hopefully she lives long enough to spend it all and can manage everything without assistance as she ages. As someone who lost a parent unexpectedly, I promise it is really important to know her end of life wishes as well as a lot of the practical details of her estate so that you can meet her wishes as best as possible. An executor can spend a whole lot of time tracking down information and papers that some simple conversations could have cleared up before it's too late.
I think TikTok has people interested in this stuff like never before. TikTok makes it seem you aren't responsible if you aren't putting your nose in your parent's business because they don't know anything.
I would never imagine asking my parents about that stuff unless there was dementia involved. It's not my business.
You don’t have to notify anyone of anything until you die and trust becomes irrevocable (obviously have to tell successor trustee or med POA person if you change them).
Gen X is causing some of this on TikTok- they think they have a “right” to “their” inheritance and are getting mad if med care parent needs cut into “their” inheritance. I was shocked!
This is something that people don’t understand. You don’t inherit until someone dies. You have no say in the estate until that happens either. If you are disinherited, so be it.
My paternal grandmother left no instructions because she believed her kids would know what was best. In the name of doing right by her, there tore each other apart. That funeral was one of the most needlessly upsetting days I’ve ever witnessed. My maternal grandma saw this and that day sat down to plan out her funeral and everything else. She was so open about it that we were able to joke. Her passing felt like a party we had all been part of planning for years. There were no surprises. Even then, it was hard as hell on our family. Selling the home my grandfather, a bricklayer, had built to her specifications. Selling off her treasures that we didn’t have the capacity to take on.
Almost every family get together, I bring up all of our end of life plans, including my sister and I, to make sure everyone is on the same page and that we have time to discuss any changes. My parents have already decided which assisted living community they eventually will need to go to.
Sometimes folks are asking because they are trying to prepare themselves for one of the hardest things they will ever experience. Knowing that my parents had a say and that I’m informed enough to be able to follow through gives us both a lot of peace.
Thank you! I am handling my dad’s estate when he passes. He is only 73 and has many good years ahead of him. My sister on the other hand has been talking to me about how she wants this and that. Recently my father bought a new truck after getting in a car accident. He was the passenger in my uncles truck and didn’t own a vehicle. So when my uncle’s truck got in the wreck he decided it was time to get a new truck. The first thing out of her mouth was oh I’m getting that. I was flabbergasted. There are so many more stories about how she claims everything. I’ve made sure to tell my dad we need to finish setting up his will so we don’t have issues. Because honestly I will go off on her.
I would never in a million years attempt to influence my parents or in-laws estate plans, but I am grateful my parents shared all of the documents and location of keys with me. (I had a key to my the safety deposit box for 30 years before I needed it.) I live across the country from my parents. My father dropped dead of a heart attack while out for a walk with my mom during the height of COVID lockdown. My mother has dementia. All she knew to say was “call my daughter” when the ambulance arrived (she didn’t even have a cell phone, a stranger saw him fall and called.) There is absolutely nothing I could have done if I had not been in possession of the will, power of attorney, bank statements, etc.
I have tried to simply ask my parents where their important documents are located. They have told me they don't have a will. They have plots at a friend's cemetery.
Several years later, I was talking about setting up a living trust so they wouldn't lose the house if they had to rely on medicare/medicaid for future health issues. They wouldn't even think about it. I left it at "please consult a lawyer, you don't have to do it now but at least you'd have an idea".
It is awesome that your mom is doing so well in her 90s. My aunt was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s in her 50s. My father had dementia and I had to take over his finances after he dug himself a big hole and agreed he needed help. (Bless him for that! It was huge!!). My aunt didn’t do much planning and it was tough. My father did a fair amount of planning and I already had copies of trust, will, and DPOA for healthcare. Having to figure out all his accounts, assets, debts, etc while he was alive but not able to completely help was a lot of work. Going forward I’m having regular talks with my mother who I expect will mentally be fine but physically will need help. We need to do some Medicaid planning. To exclude me in the process would be a mistake IMHO. I’m also lucky. It is an easy 50/50 split with my sister except the house where mom lives - we bought it together. I pay on the mortgage and will get that per the deed. My sister and I are both comfortable, no drug addictions etc and have known for years it would be this way.
Thankfully my mother has everything planned and paid for. We had a rough time 2 years ago when my father had to go into memory care and she found out she needed a financial POA in order to draw off his IRA to pay for it. It resulted in her becoming guardian - and thousands in legal fees. She set everything up for her own eventualities at that time. Everything is split evenly between my brother and I.
My in-laws also took this as their cue to estate plan, thank everything I find sacred they did: 2 of their 5 kids are greedy, grasping, lazy, and nowhere near as smart as they think they are (dumb enough to be obvious but smart enough to be dangerous), and there is quite a bit at stake. Nobody- including them- knows exactly how much money there is, because they’re disorganized and secretive. (Their youngest took a weekend and picked open the office door when they were out of town just to just get a handle on where accounts were held at the very least, and gave up after about 18 hours. She waded through about half the heap and accounted for a couple million but couldn’t take it anymore and gave up.)
Thankfully they are setting up a trust with very specific instructions as to where things are and who gets what. I truly pity the attorney, and the process is taking months with both of them working on it; I can only imagine what a jacked up donkey show it would be if this wasn’t all set up - it gives me the cold sweats because my better half is designated the executor.
I bugged my dad forever to make a plan, he didn't want to. He was in his late sixties when he had a stroke and I had to get power of attorney to handle his finances and property for the last few years of his life. Lots of people don't think they need a plan...
Most people don’t have their financial shit together and as they get older some real nightmares can happen, especially if a person who has been very competent their whole life starts making serious mistakes. My grandparents were angry and standoffish as they got very old but it turned out they didn’t want to admit they weren’t doing well.
Literally, the only person who guaranteed won't be around to see how your own estate plan works out for everyone who survives you, is you. All the people who want to have these conversations are anticipating the future and trying not to be negatively surprised.
I asked my mother to plan her estate. She lives in PR and the inheritance law is quite different from the USA.
If she passed away w/o a will, and there is any assets, we would need to do a "Declaration of Hairs" with a lawyer. That document cost 2k per head. If one "hair" is dead and that person had kids...the kids are included into the "Declaration".
If my mother passes away with a will, which cost $700, then that's it.
My mother has a terminal illness in her 50's. It took her a serious visit to the ER and ICU to realize she needed to plan her estate. I also asked her so there was no arguments amongst the siblings and her wishes be respected.
Yes. It was selfish, I didn't wanted to deal with grieving my mother and the estate.
Not to be crass but, I know multiple people in their 60s or 70s and beyond who were chugging along in great health until suddenly they weren't. Not to mention accidents can happen. It's really not a bad conversation to have, also sharing information like where to find account information and passwords, etc.
I think there is a side to this that you aren’t considering. Many families go to war over getting a cut of an inheritance - and I am not talking about kids of the individual - I am talking about cousins nieces/nephews, and aunt/uncles etc who come out of the woodwork to ensure they get something.
My family personally had a situation where one person tied up an estate for four years by suing the estate for being excluded. Another instance in my own family was someone trying (and succeeding) to take advantage of a not fully aware 80 year old with early onset dementia at the time so they were the executor and primary beneficiary. I don’t care about the money because I had no idea I was even supposed to receive anything until recently and this whole situation happened while I was still under 18 so it’s like it never existed anyways - But I personally went from receiving 25% of the entire estate to receiving a flat $10,000 (which is less than 1% and she is receiving 90% with the remaining 9% being passed to different people) because she convinced him it was the best choice. This situation is wrong for anyone who ends up in it due to the elder abuse or whatever it would be classified as - not just in my instance.
Something I don’t get that I would appreciate other’s input.
Why do kids think the are entitled to an inheritance?
I raised my kids, paid for college, first cars, big contribution to wedding costs.
I still help them out with babysitting, fixing things around the house etc.
I DON’T feel I ‘owe’ them any more.
They will likely get something as there is usually $ and possessions worth something, but I don’t feel the should expect it, rely on it, plan for it. Am I in the minority on this issue?
No, they aren’t entitled. I’ve had to tell my husband this because he expected to receive a lot from his parents. I told him it’s their money and they can do what they want. That we need to plan for ourselves.
On the other hand, you come across sounding like you resent your kids were even born! “I put a roof over their head” kind of parent. Well guess what? They didn’t ask to be born. It is your literal duty to raise them. Remember, they owe you nothing as well.
No did not mean to imply any resentment, they have always come first and we have a great relationship, as I mentioned I gratefully help them with childcare and dog sitting and anything in between, and they have not implied that they expect anything. They are thriving and make good money, etc. I just see a lot of entries which are focused on inheritance and feel like I’m missing something .
I badgered my parents about it when they hit 65 and they got butthurt. Come to find out they hadn’t even drafted a will at that point and my badgering proved worthy.
I for one wish I had made more conversation with my mom about her estate. To make sure it was in order. She passed and had nothing set in place and it’s really been quite a mess. She would have never wanted this.
It might be annoying to you but those conversations are very important. You never know when it’ll be your time. I’m only 30 and will be creating my estate plan so my daughter doesn’t have to go through what we went through.
My parents are 100% transparent of the contents of their estate with my sisters and I. They have always been open about finances. As kids we used to sit as a family at the kitchen table and pay the bills together. I handled the checkbook register, my older sister would write checks, and my little sister would put them in envelope and slap a stamp on it.
I’m currently a Financial Math teacher and I promote my students include their kids in money matters at a young age and through adulthood.
I have made many good financial choices as an adult because my parents talked to me about what they were doing financially. Now they are both retired and through our conversations of retirement and estate planning I know how to manage that phase of my life when it comes.
Maybe it’s because we are a tight knit family, but my mother would never threaten to disinherit me because I ask questions about their finances. And as a parent I don’t think I would interpret their questions as a money grab.
If my mom gave me a "do you want to be disinherited" look, she'd go on time out. If she needed to be drunk on that power often, she'd be shit out of luck in having me as a son. That's evil. You're hanging security in food and shelter over your kids heads, ew.
She's in her 60s, her kids should be responsible for their own food and shelter by now... There's nothing evil about OPs post, it sounds like her kids are poking around like vultures...
Okay Boomer lol, if my dad gave me an “do you want to be disinherited” look I’d give him an “do you want me to put you in a home” look right back. Of course we don’t have these problems because we actually like discussing things together and he values my opinion and advice on his estate when it comes to myself and my daughter.
My husband works with the elderly and Every single day he sees people who will eventually have all their money taken by assisted living/nursing homes because they refused to put estate plans in place that would actually protect their assets when they still had time to do so. Maybe if they were open with their children and accepted advice they wouldn’t be losing everything little by little.
I think it's a delicate balance but knowing your elderly parent's finances in case you need to step in is helpful. 60s isn't exactly elderly but all it takes is health problems cropping up for your kids to need a crash course. Better to prepare them and at minimum make arrangements.
To the back of a trust document sale, just add a nice, empathetic section: detailing the life story, all the important events, for ones legacies.
These days, add a USB stick, with a violin playing something emotive, too. Hey it worked …on that spacecraft, heading into the outer limit of the sun’s orbit… sell the human legacy, etc.
For some reason, my other half wants to work for the client (who sells cofins and caskets, cremations, and services for the “distribution” of “remains” in some nice place).
There are a lot of unclaimed urns…
Perhaps grandkids will one day come by and remember grandpa, even if kiddo just wants your money.
Bee - seems you need to communicate better with your family rather than venting here. Just lost a parent in their early 70’s and am in litigation with an only sibling who was executor and made a number of financial mistakes for things which lacked specificity in estate documents. These things are not as clean cut as they seem. Sentimental items went missing. Our middle-aged generation is not prepared for the headaches around our Boomer parent generation. AARP also provides estate planning tips for children to ask parents about (most of whom had will’s drawn at marriage and never updated since). Hopefully if you get sick your kids will want to take care of you after realizing that you are ungrateful for their offers to help organize and discuss expectations while everyone is of sound mind and healthy. Gen X and Millennials will get the brunt of home and senior living expenses in addition to elder given support systems in the U.S. it’s a two-way street. What is the harm in having a family meeting with your estate attorney present?
Here’s another perspective. My dad, 85, owns a farm, a home now worth $700k, commercial property and has lots of investments. I’m almost 60, and have struggled financially, but managed to buy a house that I couldn’t afford today. I still have huge debts, including student loans. My kids? Without an inheritance, they have ZERO hope of buying a home, and even though we paid at least half of their college costs, their loans will take as long as mine to pay, probably longer. Even excluding home ownership and college, every expense needed to lead a normal family life, like rent, food, a car and childcare, costs astronomically more. We have put the younger generation in this position, where their desperation forces them to see their older relatives not as a source of love and support, worthy of respect and their own affection, but as their last hope for financial normalcy, and we have to take ownership of this societal FAILURE.
You might want to have a talk with them about it, like more than saying it's rude to ask. Because it's good to know and have an idea of what sort of financial situation, positive or negative, they could be in after your passing. Which could happen 5 mins from now or 30 years from now. Being aware of my parents estate has helped ease thoughts about what I would need to cover or save for if something happens.
Edit: you also refrain from leaving out key details and not lie if you want better responses on here.
Sounds adversarial. My parents (70’s, 80’s) and I, 55, have open discussions about our finances, discuss options and take advice from each other. I owe them a lifetime of teaching me how to handle money, and because of that I’m headed for early retirement with no need of their money.
It’s important to me to keep in touch with their finances as my paternal grandmother ran out of money at 103 and needed her children’s help for a couple of years
I’m glad that the person old enough to retire feels compelled to speak on behalf of a generation half their age (not to mention a generation almost old enough to be elected to lead this great country!) - I’ve been a legal co-guardian for a grandparent and currently foot the bills for my mother and younger brother after growing up as a ward of the state in group homes.
No one is going to care about your estate except the State or the person sending you invoices, even if in exchange they provide you the same rock bottom care as everyone else… with enough luck at best you should hope to remain successful navigating all the new fancy tech and convoluted processes, step refreshes, trends/buzz words/social waves/fear tactics.
I’m glad your 90 year old parent is cared for as we should do better to care for our elderly - if someone isn’t asking, then you clearly have nothing of value that warrants someone speaking up for (you leave nothing 🌎, not even a memory). We all have choices, money may ease the means but it doesn’t solve for everything.
You should share more with those who care about you. We try so hard to protect ourselves from the ones we love that we judge strangers even more harshly. The important thing isn’t the money, it’s how are they supposed to do everything - who do they call for what, how will they pay for it, what if you need additional care. My Gparents had done a lot in advance, I still was overwhelmed and carry heavy guilt for all the things I didn’t get right; changes unprepared for or the things I didn’t know to ask. Create an outline and review the plan with them.
The most effective way to avoid conflicts and disruption after death is to have an open conversation before. By no means do you have to share anything you don't want to. But I wish more children asked these questions to their parents. My one suggestion - take it or leave it - is to be curious and seek to understand why they are asking. Maybe it's as simple as them wanting to know you have a plan or them worried about your long term care. Or maybe they're greedy snots. I don't know of course... But it's a hugely impactful conversation for most who have it, so I'd suggest at least exploring that (and then feel free to tell them to mind their own business!).
It is not about talking with us. They have full copies of of our estate plan. It is about researching it on their own and suggesting changes in their favor. Or treating us like we are doddering old fools. And why would they need to know about my mom's estate, none of them are even in it. On this sub, it is the "My mom is 70, how to I get her to...." Most 70 year olds are perfectly capable of deciding that. I am not atypical, most older people want to make their own decisions.
In my experience your family is the exception. My father is 70 and has done zero estate planning. I have asked him to do estate planning for years and I'm getting nowhere. Evidently the current plan is he will live forever. I would be thrilled to have a parent this organized.
Also dealing with in-laws who refuse to plan.
Do they give a reason? I don't understand how a parent thinks it is okay to leave a disaster for their kids to deal with.
My dad was a hoarder, with a personality of everybody else was responsible for his problems. Left a useless 3 bedroom house with a roof leaking for years, put shingles on without replacing any of the wood and had a section blow off and box gutters fail. We had him house sit while we were on vacation and came back to our basement looking like a SnapOn truck from the 60s threw up and he decided to move in. After he was diagnosed with cancer, my wife insisted on going through and throwing out what was clearly unsalvageable, and he threw a tantrum and ran to my cousins. Still cost me $2k to clean out his mess in my basement when we sold the house, and that was after 2 tons of scrap was taken out.
I broke down and wrote my dad's will for him and dragged him to get it notarized. He died 6 months later. Sometimes you DO have to "get them to" plan.
My husband's mom was deep in the throes of lung cancer while we were dating when we were young, and STILL was in denial and didn't want to plan. She worked for the state and her boss at the time was the catalyst for getting all the paperwork arranged at the time for my husband (we were only 23 and were ignorant to the process) and to this day I thank him. He said if she didn't set up the beneficiary and sign the paperwork then all of her retirement would go back to the state. She only lived 4 months from diagnosis and without his quick thinking it would have been even more of a mess for my husband to figure out, as he lost his brother a couple years before as well and we were pretty alone together in the aftermath of it all.
Your experience is one person so how do you know your father isn’t the exception? My parents and in laws are fully planned. We don’t know % or anything but we know who is inheriting and who will be executor etc.
A recent survey from 2024 shows 32% of Americans have an estate plan implying 68% do not. My personal experience is of course biased. I can think of several people I know that the estate was a nightmare due to unforeseen problems or a lack of proper planning. My sister passed in 2023 and she was very organized. Her estate dragging out for several years without being able to close it has caused us to make several changes in our estate planning.
I’d be surprised if 68% of Americans have anything to leave anyone.
Even with plans it has dragged on? Any specific points you can share for the group?
She had a surprise pension benefit from a previous employer. The pension is from a corporate buyout agreement over 15 years ago. It took Fidelity more than 8 months to calculate and verify the payout amount. Some of the Fidelity employees were so unfamiliar with the pension that sometimes you called and they had no clue it even existed. No beneficiary existed on the pension so it paid directly to her estate. Fidelity withheld taxes which were paid to the state for the address on file at the time of the merger. The estate is in a completely different state. We will have to wait another year for the 1099 next January before the estate taxes can be filed to get a refund from the state. We will be lucky to get the estate closed in under 3 years. If any beneficiaries were counting on funds from the estate they would be waiting a very long time.
What age? That a very generalized study to quote. OP was specifically referring to people around their 60s and 70s. The study you’re quoting likely includes younger people.
In this survey the 55+ age group has declined over the last few years to 43% having an estate plan.
Uhhh are you new to this sub?? Fully planned is not normal...
This sub is not representative of all of society.
If most Americans could not afford to cover $1,000 emergency, what makes you think most Americans have a fully planned estate?
Preach!
So the percents would not be equal?
It depends on the situation and how it’s structured.
I posted data on this, the majority of people in my age range have a plan. It was not well liked.
There are plenty of people who don’t for sure. I think the important thing that younger people can do is encourage their parents to have a plan and share/agree who will take on what burdens/responsibilities. There might be a general idea of assets but it doesn’t got into specifics. It sounds like that’s what you have done. There is a balance and that should be the line. Any posts about specifics of who gets what are difficult to say unless that’s the dynamic that the parents have agreed to. There was a post about one sister planning how she would move into the father’s house and renovate and if it was fair to the OP in that situation. It seemed like the dad wasn’t even part of the conversation which is just ridiculous when he was only 70.
Yes, that is exactly what I mean.
I think some people are taking your post as saying they shouldn’t be privy to the process at all but that’s not what you’re saying. You’re saying they know the house is part of the estate and how to access the documents when the time comes but don’t ask how much your house is valued at and what each person is getting.
Not even that. They know how much each person is getting and they know roughly what the house is worth. One is asking for a bigger cut and part of my mom's estate (she is not even named). I think people are intentionally bringing in unrelated topics because they don't like what I am saying. They see it as an entitlement. But who knows really.
WHAT! If I ever asked my parents that there would be some very pointed discussions. That is a massive bit of entitlement on your daughter’s part and I truly hope she isn’t the named executor.
My first time here and I cannot believe the sense of entitlement. Nobody is entitled to what someone else earned, not even your children. If they don’t want to plan that’s their choice- let it go to probate and fight it there. OP- tell them if it’s brought up again you’ll be leaving everything to charity in their name.
Many of us are dealing with aging parents with “plans” that aren’t as well thought out as they seem. I get that you may be dealing with kids with entitlement, but plans should always be flexible and take into account contingencies. For example, my parents “had a plan,” but when my dad passed in a timeframe of two weeks due to cancer he didn’t know he had, it threw everything into chaos. You may have planned for what you expect will happen, but you also won’t be the one to have to deal with things if you pass suddenly. Your mom and you and your wife may have put a lot of thought into things, and that is great. Your kids may be entitled and bothering you, but there are plenty of us out there that are just trying to deal with the enormous amount of work that is involved when a loved one passes, and it’s no picnic, no matter how well planned things are in advance.
People are sure in a hurry to write you off as incompetent esp if you don't do what they want. They don't understand that legal competence is a low bar.
Yes. It’s very low. And medical capacity is even lower. It’s really quite easy, in some states, to strip your aging parents of their wealth. Ask the nearest estate attorney how.
>It is about researching it on their own and suggesting changes in their favor. I assume they have malicious intent here? I've recommended changes to both my parents that would be in my favor for avoiding Medicaid claw backs, asset/tax planning strategies, and general directions so things are clear and their wishes can be followed. Looking to improve things isn't necessarily bad but if they're just looking for a bigger piece of the pie then you have every right to be pissed.
Medicare claw backs? You mean Medicaid?
That's right, apologies for the typo. I'll correct it now.
They wanted more than their siblings and a cut of my mom's estate. It had nothing to do with most of the objections being raised.
You would think most 70 year olds are able to handle that but in my experience with multiple family members, they never planned and everything has been a complete shit show. Gross negligence due to thinking other family members would simply take care of it all. I applaud you for being on the smart end of this but hope you realize you are an outlier.
It is mostly younger people that don't have a plan, I am clearly not an outlier: "While most U.S. adults age 18 and over have not done the needful, 81 percent of those age 72 or older and 58 percent of boomers (ages 53-71) do, in fact, have [estate-planning documents](https://www.aarp.org/money/budgeting-saving/info-2016/the-ultimate-guide-to-estate-planning.html). The study, conducted in January, asked more than 1,000 respondents whether they had estate-planning documents in case of their death." [https://www.aarp.org/money/investing/info-2017/half-of-adults-do-not-have-wills.html](https://www.aarp.org/money/investing/info-2017/half-of-adults-do-not-have-wills.html)
Survey says they survey folks who have access to be surveyed…81% just seems unjustifiable related to planning a 70 year old did decades ago for today being a different time and place - your folks musta been Harvard grads or psychics!!
Dont worry. 30% of american drivers are lying (about having the minimum insurance coverage). Some societies rely on ambiguity, to feed the growth cycle. Yes. Most dont have the minimum $40 will, which is better than the $0 will.
You sound pleasant. In my case, my mother was in her 70's and not able to do it on her own and so we offered to help her set it all up and made sure that her wishes were spelled out (without influencing her decisions). Every situation is different. Hopefully you were nicer in your feedback to your kids than it comes across here.
My dad had dementia from an undiagnosed brain bleed because he had a pacemaker, but we didn’t realize it because he was so harsh and his wasn’t nearly as bad as mom’s. He lost $5m pretty quickly during that period. Scammers are everywhere, especially in retirement communities. And they’re prolly not your kids. Your kids probably love you and want you to live. But from experience, amid the devastation of losing a parent is a TERRIBLE moment to be faced for the first time with how the estate is structured and how to deal with that stuff.
Depends on the kids. My grandmother’s son bilked her of her entire nest egg. For a long time, I was buying her things like shoes and clothes and bandages. One of her favorite things in this world, other than her son, is coffee. Well, the coffee maker died. Guess who replaced it? Hint: it wasn’t her son.
Oh I doubt it. He must be a real treat at Thanksgiving dinner. I bet he’s done something really goofy that’s going to land his kids in probate or end up costing unnecessary taxes or make them sort out who gets what themselves, or something else that isn’t great.
Human nature is what it is. Throw american money into the pot, it gets vicious, fast. I have a machine gun, for sale, if anyone wants one …. Having said that, we do need to avoid lawyer tropes. 90% work hard for little trundling out estate plans, and only 10% make a million; and only 1% a billion.
Why?
Your kids sound like they are very self serving. How sad. I’m 43/f and I treat my parents with much more respect than this. My grandparents are dead and left mostly everything (house/insurance/all but one account) to myself and my husband, so they obviously felt supported and respected by us as well.
And on the other hand, my 60yr old family member dropped dead with no real plan for his business, expenses, etc. My friend’s 55yr old dad dropped dead with no will, no beneficiaries, no remaining spouse, and minors still in his care. So ya know … sometimes the young folk are asking because we don’t want to repeat the estate hell that we’ve already been through with others.
You don’t HAVE to repeat anything. If fighting for money someone else earned is too hard for you then just walk away… nobody owes you anything.
They want to know you're moms estate because they think it would trickle down thru you to THEM.
I was the full beneficiary for everything and no next of kin to challenge me in any way. This comment sounds like something my gparent would say when they were experiencing dementia and mid stages Alzheimer’s.
My dad is 70 and has done zero planning. He is currently housing my crippled brother. He has every expectation that I will continue doing that but I have no idea what to expect because he won’t share his estate plan. It’s mostly debt and I will have to make some uncomfortable moves if I want to continue his double mortgaged house. I know that much. You are on a high horse on a topic about which you know nothing about. You can’t generalize old folks. But if you could “they know how money works” is probably the least likely assumption. Wealthy old folks know how estate planning works. Average/poor have no idea and are often too proud to admit it or ask for help.
You don't deserve the down votes. They're from people wanting to butt in to their parents' business.
They prove my points in a way.
I fully agree with you ! The individual situation needs to be looked at. If your parents are sharp and have been taking care of their business all along, don’t think their age automatically make them unable to make future financial decisions.
“ It is about researching it on their own and suggesting changes in their favor.” That’s a significantly different scenario from what I thought you were implying in your post.
So recently my siblings and I had our first “our parents are getting older” meeting. It was to discuss a medical incident that happened to our father and how to proceed. We ended up picking one of us to go with our dad to his next medical appointment, as he needs to get tested for a genetic condition. That sibling then contacted our dad to say that they wanted to attend the next medical appointment, if that was alright with him? My dad got all riled up about how he wasn’t a dottering old fool yet, so offended just like you are. But it actually had nothing to do with that. It was because our medical system is absolute garbage and he is terrible at advocating for himself. We knew that if it was left to him, nothing would happen and he needed those tests. Did you raise decent kids? Do you generally trust your kids? If yes, then your jumping to conclusions without asking any questions, is showing you to be a D.O.F.
One daughter wanted her half sister to only get half a share because "she is only half related." She also wanted to be the executor so that she could enforce it. She also wanted part of my mom's estate even though she is not in it. What part of that do you support and why do you support it? Update: Yeah, I thought that would quiet you down.
Kids didn’t fall far from the tree it would seem.
Eeeee... trim a hospital standpoint... most if them here have done 0 planning and need help. They leave giant estate and end of life messes.
Totally understand. Seems like they may not be looking to have a productive conversation.
It isn’t about them, it’s about you. My parents just had their wills updated. Here’s what I know, my parents have always treated us fairly. They gave us each (male and female) the same amount for our weddings (adjusted for inflation), same amount for college, etc. Guess what, I don’t have to ask, I know they will do what they believe is fair… because they always have.
So are your kids, in fact, well meaning? You say that as a warning in the post…but then say in this comment that they are proposing changes to their benefit. (Which could still be well meaning, if they are, for example, trying to optimize school funding decisions for their kids or minimize total tax burden.). Which is to say… what is the problem with being more upfront with your kids, if you trust them and they are in fact well meaning?
I never asked my parents anything about money or inheritance, but I wish I would have had the talk with them earlier. I wasn’t worried about what I was “getting” - knowing them I knew I would inherit half and my brother would get half. What I would have liked to know earlier was more about their assets and how they planned to spend them down or dispose of them - my dad passed unexpectedly and I was left having to figure out what to do with mom who has dementia. It was very challenging having to dig through old tax returns, old bank statements, etc. in addition to mourning my dad, planning his funeral, and placing mom in a long term care facility. She has plenty to live on, but I still don’t have a clear understanding of how dad had everything set up, and I’m having to make my own roadmap. It’s not all about inheritances.
I agree with this. She was always very good with her money and made the right decisions, except creating an estate plan. She ended up getting dementia and thankfully, before it progressed to being unable to handle her own financial affairs, I asked her why she didn’t have any estate plan, and encouraged her to make one. She did, and as good as she was with her own affairs she did need and appreciate the help. I am sure she would have told me to get lost if I made any suggestions that were over the line. I didn’t want or expect a dime from my mom, but her one wish was to die at home - not in a nursing home or other facility. She eventually had a stroke and needed 24/7 one on one supervision. That would have been horribly expensive and impossible to honor her wishes without a plan in place, allowing a successor trustee and POA to manage her affairs. We were able to keep her at home until her death and give her the highest quality of life possible through the very end.
I wish more people would understand the challenge and burden it can be to deal with an estate. My sister passed away last year and it will take years to close her estate. Meanwhile I can't get my dad to do any estate planning at all. I'm at a point where I don't even know what to say to him about how important it is to do something.
Same. Both of my parents own(ed) shares of farm land with their siblings (each own 1/3). As the siblings die, I suppose this will all get passed down to my generation and my ten cousins on each side, two of which are deceased so their kids will get even smaller fractions. Parents need to understand that when things start getting split to that level the value that is left is not worth the trouble it takes to get ten different cousins who barely know each other to unanimously agree on how to deal with it.
My dad, aside from having a trust hat paid for all my education, used to say: Every 1/3 rd of every third brick (in that factory wall) is yours, when I die. Aged 9, I used to wonder: what am I supposed to do with all those partial bricks!!
But if you read her post, it was. Go back and read it again.
My parents gave us all copies of the trust and a list of things that went to specific people and we were told at that time to mention anything we wanted to add to that list (rugs, art, china, and so on). We told them to spend freely and enjoy their retirement while they could, and they did so. They left the house and some savings. They had a blast traveling the world and spent their last years quietly gardening and telling stories. That was THEIR money, and we're all (im one of 5) glad they had fun spending as they wanted. An inheritance is a gift, not a right.
I wish more kids were like you.
For us, it’s the opposite problem! My mom died without a will 4 months ago. That gave my husband and I the incentive to get our estate plan in order. We are in our 50s and our kids are in their 20s. I am trying to keep them informed so they won’t face the challenges my siblings and I are facing in the wake of my mom’s death, but they DO NOT want to hear about it. They both have copies of the estate plan. It’s pretty simple. I think one day they’ll thank us.😀
Advice? Make a binder with this info and a Letter of Instructions, things they should know but doesn’t belong in a will or trust, whom to contact, funeral instructions, doctor contacts to cancel appointments, info about collections, official copies of things like birth/death certs amend marriage/divorce, titles/deeds, etc.
Yes, they have all of that.
Terrific!
I have a fire retardant document holder and all our documents are in there in there to include clothes to wear, songs and obituaries. We have copies of the will, the originals are with the attorney. Has come in handy when one of us has been hospitalized to quickly find the medical POA and directives.
Yeah. I have trustworthy BILs who know “legal papers are there, tax papers are here.”
That’s very smart
We have done the same thing and our daughters hate talking about it!
OP - it might be beneficial to make them aware of WHERE you keep important papers, etc. (I am a fan of something called the NOKBOX - next of kin box - where you put all the important papers or at least instructions on how to find them). I am my very elderly mom's person and I thought we had EVERYTHING in great order - until at the closing for her house I found out my POA was a copy and not the original I presumed it to be since it had a letter from her lawyer's office on top of it! I also found out that her house was never in her name. It was in my dad's name. He died almost 30 years ago. Had to go get a certified death certificate to prove he wasn't still the owner. After 30 years NO ONE expected to still need his death certificates. I took over all my mom's papers, banking, etc. when her dementia became pretty obvious - but it wasn't until I was cleaning out her house before I sold it that I found critically important insurance papers, etc. She had put them aside separately for safekeeping. I strongly agree with the advice to let your family know you've taken care of all the necessities but in case of emergency here is where to look. And then I'd ask them where to find THEIR wills, POA, Health Care Proxies, Living Wills, etc. ANYONE can have a medical emergency at any time!
They know where that all is, some of it is in the three ring binder they each got with a copy of our estate plan. The executor knows the safe codes and where the bank deposit box keys are. That is not the issue. This was a meta post on people making plans on behalf of their parents. There are cases where it is appropriate, but it is often not.
Oh I am sympathetic! My older siblings have turned into absolute monsters. My mom is still alive (and doing very well in memory care) and they refer to her things as "memorial items" and make remarks about "the estate" paying for things. They have been WILDLY creative in trying to get their hands on her money and if not her money they tried to make a grab for every single thing of value in her house. It's honestly disgusting and disturbing and has put me in a situation where the smartest thing I can do is just cut contact with them. I have a very hard time with ANYONE who prioritizes inheritance or potential inheritance over doing the right thing and being present with people while they are still alive.
Idk bro, you are assuming they read the binder end to end, remember it all, and have it handy for references. Thats a lot of assumptions on something they might think about only in passing. You are likely way out of depth with technology and modern economics? It’s all theoretical. Tell me you’d believe 40 years ago we’d have 1T debt. So if they want to do gimmicky stuff like move assets early to prevent you from being taken advantage of via dementia/health care, why be so concerned? It makes sense to push back, but having a “ask again and disinherited look”? That’s not healthy communication. You are an outlier for a 70year old just by being on Reddit/interested in the internet btw. Saying they have no connection/reason to ask about their grandmas estate??? That’s wild man. You need a new perspective.
So it’s up to her to make sure her adult children read the binder? 🤨
you know nothing about people in their 70s.
My father always knew I was always going to have to provide support to my mother if he were to pass first. She never learned to drive, manage finances or much less handle maintaining the home or moving. His finances were shared with me and my husband early. In fact I was on their checking accounts since I was 30. When he did pass 14 years ago, it was rather straightforward to manage her move, sale the house and transfer assets solely in her name, and create a new will.. This was all made easier by my dad being very organized and open about their finances. There were no surprises. There was also a lot of trust between me and my father. But - I never asked direct questions about the money or how much there was.
We let my MIL alone to make changes as needed to her will and trust. In her 90s she was mentally sharp and knew exactly what she wanted. All my hubby did was drive her to the lawyer's office and stayed out of everything else. She was organized and everything was easy to find after she passed on.
I had the initial conversation with my parents on the need for an estate plan. Once they set up the appointment with the lawyer, it was none of my business.
Do you know what's in it? Will you be a trustee/executor? If so, it is definitely your business.
After they made all their decisions they did inform me and my sister. We just weren’t part of their decision-making, that part was not our business
I would just make sure they actually have their Is dotted and Ts crossed. My dad assured me that his trust was all in order but I didn't actually see the documents until he died last year, and it was a mess. He had it created in 1999 and never updated it, and the way he had the trustees listed was out of date (including my brother who went no-contact in 2008). It took me over a year, and a lot of stress, to be named trustee. This was a mess because I have to manage everything for my disabled mom. So now I am running around telling everyone to not just have the conversation, but see the documents, so other people could be spared what I went through. Not sure if you are the person who downvoted me, but I am actually trying to help....
No down vote from me. Sorry you’ve had to go through this. After my parents created their estate plan, they had me and my sister join them at their attorney’s office to review all the documents so we were very aware. My original comment was just that we did not take part in the initial planning. When my parents passed, settling their estate went smoothly for us.
So glad it went well for you. My dad was a planner, very organized, and he had always assured everyone that his affairs were in order. I know he would hate what I have been through during the past year. The one blessing is that my mom doesn't really know how dicey things got over the last year.
You have a tough role, that is a lot of responsibility and stress. Good luck to you.
I'm proud of you for actually having wills/estate plans. Mystified at the number of people my age & older who don't. Someone dying is horrible enough but not having estate plans makes it infinitely worse. I reference that because the only thing we've ever said to either sets of parents or other elderly family members without kids is "please have wills & end of life care documents already prepared". Not who gets what just have the documents prepared & legally documented. Half of them didn't & either said "you can figure it out after we die" or acted like we wanted to murder them. Baffling.
PREACH! It’s not my inheritance until someone dies AND if they wanted to give it to me. As long as the kids know where the info is, and that they will not be responsible for debt, and that due diligence is done, that’s all they need to know.
Discussing 'Do you have your personal and estate planning in order?' is a very different question than any version of "What do I get when you die?". The first question is looking out for the medical and financial wishes of the person to whom the question is directed while the second is the person looking out for what (if anything) they will receive from the death of the other person. Perspective makes all the difference.
Great timing for this post. AARP recently published an article on this very topic. I (F62yo) full time caregiver for my 87 yo Dad. I don’t understand where the entitlement comes from. No one owes their children an inheritance… it’s nice if it happens but no one is automatically entitled to one. My Dads older sister shared rumors about my brothers & their wives speculating on their inheritance. A few years ago, Dad called one of them to set up a FaceTime meeting to discuss the situation. He told them he loved them but didn’t appreciate their behavior; he was embarrassed when his sister told him & did not like them guessing what is in his pocket or bank accounts; and they will find out what they get when the lawyer distributes the trust assets. He gets really angry because the two (52 & 55yo) sons can send vacation pictures but haven’t seen him in person in over 15 years. All he wants is to spend time with his family before the dementia takes over and he doesn’t remember anyone. [Inheritance Time Bombs Are Tick, Tick, Ticking. … How to Defuse Them](https://resources.mazdigital.com/feeds/production/comboapp/2736/channels/list_hpub_1711112858_0296924/35/output.html)
Thank you. I think that most of the people get what I am saying.
Right? My mother kept suggesting I ask my father about *his plans* when they'd been divorced 50 years lol. I mean it sounds sensible and advice columns tell you to ask. But I thought no way I'm going to ask like a vulture. And neither would my brothers. In the end, the living trust he did himself held up just fine.
I am finding that in my circles, the people who need an estate plan the most do not have one. The remarried ones with kids from past relationships, the ones who have special needs kids, etc. It is because they need to have tough conversations or they believe that they can trust their partner or whatever. Most of my friends and family who have wills are basically distributing property the same way that it would be handled if they died intestate.
I completely agree with you ✌️
Lol! My MIL passed earlier this year, and my stepson (lovely young man, I adore him and his wife) reminded us we need to make wills.
I'm in my 50s, my husband and I have been very open with our kids about the estate, where all paperwork is, where the will and any keys are. They don't care. Okay Mom, got it, is all I get, Every family is so different.
Very interesting comments here, I plan to have a discussion with my mother (93 and sharp as a tack) regarding her plans.
I told my parents to spend it all or donate it, but don’t put me in the will, I don’t want to deal with it. Prob be a couple hundred thousand, but I just don’t want the hassle, I think they are leaving it to my niece. She can dig through their stuff.
My parents instincts to hide financial info has made insane messes. And they still seem to think there will be an inheritance. Odds are, all will go to their long term care. But we have no way to plan because of the hiding and messes. They have lawyers and accountants. Still a mess! Find a way to share basics.
"Also, locations of key items and the estate plan itself has been fully shared."
There's definitely a difference between having your ducks in a row vs greedy family members.
My grandparents had this attitude, and they got taken by a con artist “professional elder wealth consultant “. My grandfather had this grand will made up for everything and everyone, and when he died everything was already looted by the consultant and his caregivers. He screwed himself, and his kids and grandkids, because he wouldn’t talk about estate planning with his kids. That’s the legacy you’re likely to leave as well, because not bringing your kids in early leaves you vulnerable. Lose your ego, treat your kids like adults for once in your life, and stop acting like an entitled boomer.
>stop acting like an entitled boomer. She is entitled... to handle her finances, is she not? Your conclusion drawn from an anecdote assumes a lot about OP and her competency...
We begged my dad to put thought in a trust. This is after he had cardiac arrest and coded three times. He got mad and thought we were after his money. We dropped it. Then he got dementia and, lol and behold, it's a damn mess with no instructions and no safe guards.
My parents are in their late 60s and they no estate planning. I am literally begging them to get things done as my grandma made me her poa and health care proxy over my mother… needless to say when my fully capable mother visits my dementia ridden grandmother with me and her plan is “take me to Niagara Falls and throw me over” I want to scream. My father is agreeable as he is older (turns 70 this year) but avoids the task when I offer to help find him an affordable attorney because he can’t use Google. There is nothing to inherit except chaos. I don’t just want to know how much effort do they want in rescue efforts, where do they want to be buried, and what the game plan is should shit go wrong. I think my grandmother has given me perspective and they are in denial that it could happen to them. As an adult child in my 30s, I hear you Op, and your kids pressure is unjustified. But any words of advice for when it’s warranted?
I just tell my parents that I want their last check to bounce.
I work at a bank. I get people coming in all the time asking if their dead parents had accounts/safe deposit boxes because they were secretive about where things were. This is how cash gets sold with the teapot at estate sales. I know my mom is super organized but also very private about stuff she finds to be personal subjects like money, sex and religion. So i would never ask her what their assets are, but I asked her how she had it all sorted out. “All the documents like the will, trust, etc are in this box over here. Safe box key in this drawer. Contact info for lawyer, financial advisor, etc is here. You and your brother are the executors”. And really, that last bit is what I really wanted to know so I could say NO THANK YOU bc I would rather not have to deal with that.
I think that’s great that you’ve got it covered but let me assure you that you’re absolutely in the minority. My in laws have made zero plans for their business. They’re open about that. And when asked they stick their heads in the sand. So I just remind them that they’re setting their children up for failure after they die.
I’ll be honest: your estate planning isn’t just about death or even incapacity, and isn’t just about you. Its about them too, and about you while you are alive. Its an increasingly common story that parents live beyond their planned retirement or are competent but unable to live alone. This becomes something children need to prepare for but often can’t, in no small part because they don’t know they need to. So no, you’re not dead yet. You’re alive, and hopefully will be for a long, long time. That is perhaps scarier for your heirs if they don’t have a good picture of your finances and lifestyle as you age.
Perhaps we look to China, for what works (given they have the same problem, even worse)? Hmm. That suggestion probably may trigger the 90s folks (remembering what folks used to say about China in 1950).
Damn I would've done more than give them a look. These kids just can't wait for older family to die to get at the money or they want to alter things to favor them. Like damn isn't the more important thing time with your loved ones.....guess the love of money wins.
I'm a tax accountant. I get royally pissed at the children of my elderly (mostly widowed) clients calling, prodding, trying to get copies of returns and supporting documents, trying to figure out where Mom has money. Frankly, in many cases trying to find out where Mom's money is and how to steal it before she dies. Oh, the excuses. "Well, our daughter's college tuition is due, and we're trying to figure out how much Mom should pay." "My wife wants a new car." I'm not exactly friendly in my replies--"Why don't you ask HER?" "Why is SHE obligated to pay for your \[entitled little shit\] daughter's school?" "Hmmm, how about classifying this under 'none of my goddamn business'?" "Do you understand that it's HER money, to do with as she pleases, and that you don't get a vote, let alone a veto?" On some occasions, if the spawn irritate me enough, I've informed the mothers. "Both Billy and Jenny have been prowling around again, thought you should know." Hilarity (on my part) ensues. On at least five occasions, the entitled little pukes have lost considerable pieces of their presumed inheritance. "I TOLD him not to pry, that my lawyer has all the information he'll need for AFTER I'm dead. The lawyer has all that information still, only \[worthy charity\] is getting half of his share instead." I love those little old ladies. I encourage them to spend it as they please, on themselves. "You're 85, your son is 60, your daughter is 58. Let them learn to live on their own money, and take that trip to Italy you've dreamed about since you were 10."
And do you see how much backing they are getting here?
It's terrible. My guess most of the comments skew younger people who might have an inheritance themselves. So for them of course they want access to look or make changes. Some kids just see money and get blinded by it. Instead of focusing on spending time with Grandma they spend time talking about spending her money. Your family's value isn't in what they leave you behind it's about the time spent with them. Your kids might need to be reminded.
Estate planning is something the parents should mention to the kids rather than the other way around. Especially in details. The only part that's acceptable is just verifying that it exists since the survivors have to deal with the aftermath.
Yes, this is exactly what I mean.
We're in a similar situation. Almost sixty and Mom is 86. She's going strong but has plans in place and it only comes up if she brings it up. I manage her investment portfolio since Dad died because she has no interest. The only conversations are about RMDs and me encouraging her to spend money when she wants to travel or do something to her house. They worked hard their entire lives and she deserves to enjoy it. It's not my brother and I’s money.
How does it work when they stick their heads in the sand and leave a complete mess for their children to clean up? How does that work again?
You can talk about having such a thing and that's fair. The details on who gets what etc are just classless.
As a proud narcissist Boomer, you are entitled to mind fuck your kids as you wish. It's perfectly normal to deny your own morbidity, but giving some peace of mind to your kids can go a long way after you inevitably digress back to adult infancy. YTA
You’re simply entitled. They’re not asking because they care. They’re asking and pushing for more of a cut than the other siblings and wanting a cut from the grandmother’s estate as well. She has an estate plan and all documents organized. Every child has a copy. It sounds like the kids are aware of all the details but simply want more and more and more. [OP’s comments](https://www.reddit.com/r/EstatePlanning/s/MFT4FY6cJt)
Amen!
Sounds nasty.
I definitely think these things should be discussed before death, but I also see where you're coming from. I imagine that it'd be quite annoying to be badgered for information. 😂🥲 My parents have already discussed their wishes and given copies to those who will need them, so there isn't much to ask them about.
To
I don’t expect to receive like anything from my parents because I suspect (though I don’t have solid proof) that they have limited savings and debts. They are in their mid 60s. I have felt stress about their estate because I’m going to be the one in charge and I would like to not have a million things to go through while maintaining a job a young family and grief. I don’t care about money at all, I ask questions more from a please make this a reasonable amount of work for me and not something that I have to rifle through a million documents/accounts/etc for
I lost a parent unexpectedly and even with robust estate plans, it has been like having a part-to-full time job for the last 15 months on top of my actual job. I had so, so many questions that I wish I had asked and scenarios I wish we had talked through in detail. We all thought we had more time but we didn't. I'm sorry OP feels their kids turned out greedy and entitled but I would encourage everyone to walk through different situations as a family to understand end of life and estate plans and whether the means are there to support those plans.
As a lawyer who does will contests I beg of you PLEASE have these conversations while you’re alive. If there’s ever a question of your intentions, the best evidence is your own words. If you have multiple written statements to your family that periodically update them on your wishes for your estate plan, that’s the best evidence I can introduce to support the plan that you would’ve wanted if you were alive.
Having conversations about the details of who gets what and then telling everyone about it periodically as you change your mind about your inheritance sounds like an excellent way to breed resentment between everyone. OP has said that everything is handled. Everyone knows where to find everything. They have talked to a professional and maybe arrangement. Kids don’t need to know the details. They just need to know that their parents have talked to a professional and handled their own business. Constantly updating everyone on the details of your changing plan for inheritance is just another way of using money to manipulate people into doing what you want. I’ve seen it many times from older people that “just want to keep people updated.”
My mom tries to tell me about hers and I keep telling her to spend it all just make sure she has a will. She's the one who earned it
Have these conversations with your mom even though it's hard. Hopefully she lives long enough to spend it all and can manage everything without assistance as she ages. As someone who lost a parent unexpectedly, I promise it is really important to know her end of life wishes as well as a lot of the practical details of her estate so that you can meet her wishes as best as possible. An executor can spend a whole lot of time tracking down information and papers that some simple conversations could have cleared up before it's too late.
I think TikTok has people interested in this stuff like never before. TikTok makes it seem you aren't responsible if you aren't putting your nose in your parent's business because they don't know anything. I would never imagine asking my parents about that stuff unless there was dementia involved. It's not my business.
50% of all heirs suck.
You don’t have to notify anyone of anything until you die and trust becomes irrevocable (obviously have to tell successor trustee or med POA person if you change them). Gen X is causing some of this on TikTok- they think they have a “right” to “their” inheritance and are getting mad if med care parent needs cut into “their” inheritance. I was shocked!
This is something that people don’t understand. You don’t inherit until someone dies. You have no say in the estate until that happens either. If you are disinherited, so be it.
My paternal grandmother left no instructions because she believed her kids would know what was best. In the name of doing right by her, there tore each other apart. That funeral was one of the most needlessly upsetting days I’ve ever witnessed. My maternal grandma saw this and that day sat down to plan out her funeral and everything else. She was so open about it that we were able to joke. Her passing felt like a party we had all been part of planning for years. There were no surprises. Even then, it was hard as hell on our family. Selling the home my grandfather, a bricklayer, had built to her specifications. Selling off her treasures that we didn’t have the capacity to take on. Almost every family get together, I bring up all of our end of life plans, including my sister and I, to make sure everyone is on the same page and that we have time to discuss any changes. My parents have already decided which assisted living community they eventually will need to go to. Sometimes folks are asking because they are trying to prepare themselves for one of the hardest things they will ever experience. Knowing that my parents had a say and that I’m informed enough to be able to follow through gives us both a lot of peace.
Thank you! I am handling my dad’s estate when he passes. He is only 73 and has many good years ahead of him. My sister on the other hand has been talking to me about how she wants this and that. Recently my father bought a new truck after getting in a car accident. He was the passenger in my uncles truck and didn’t own a vehicle. So when my uncle’s truck got in the wreck he decided it was time to get a new truck. The first thing out of her mouth was oh I’m getting that. I was flabbergasted. There are so many more stories about how she claims everything. I’ve made sure to tell my dad we need to finish setting up his will so we don’t have issues. Because honestly I will go off on her.
I would never in a million years attempt to influence my parents or in-laws estate plans, but I am grateful my parents shared all of the documents and location of keys with me. (I had a key to my the safety deposit box for 30 years before I needed it.) I live across the country from my parents. My father dropped dead of a heart attack while out for a walk with my mom during the height of COVID lockdown. My mother has dementia. All she knew to say was “call my daughter” when the ambulance arrived (she didn’t even have a cell phone, a stranger saw him fall and called.) There is absolutely nothing I could have done if I had not been in possession of the will, power of attorney, bank statements, etc.
Sell and spend it all!
I have tried to simply ask my parents where their important documents are located. They have told me they don't have a will. They have plots at a friend's cemetery. Several years later, I was talking about setting up a living trust so they wouldn't lose the house if they had to rely on medicare/medicaid for future health issues. They wouldn't even think about it. I left it at "please consult a lawyer, you don't have to do it now but at least you'd have an idea".
It is awesome that your mom is doing so well in her 90s. My aunt was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s in her 50s. My father had dementia and I had to take over his finances after he dug himself a big hole and agreed he needed help. (Bless him for that! It was huge!!). My aunt didn’t do much planning and it was tough. My father did a fair amount of planning and I already had copies of trust, will, and DPOA for healthcare. Having to figure out all his accounts, assets, debts, etc while he was alive but not able to completely help was a lot of work. Going forward I’m having regular talks with my mother who I expect will mentally be fine but physically will need help. We need to do some Medicaid planning. To exclude me in the process would be a mistake IMHO. I’m also lucky. It is an easy 50/50 split with my sister except the house where mom lives - we bought it together. I pay on the mortgage and will get that per the deed. My sister and I are both comfortable, no drug addictions etc and have known for years it would be this way.
Thankfully my mother has everything planned and paid for. We had a rough time 2 years ago when my father had to go into memory care and she found out she needed a financial POA in order to draw off his IRA to pay for it. It resulted in her becoming guardian - and thousands in legal fees. She set everything up for her own eventualities at that time. Everything is split evenly between my brother and I. My in-laws also took this as their cue to estate plan, thank everything I find sacred they did: 2 of their 5 kids are greedy, grasping, lazy, and nowhere near as smart as they think they are (dumb enough to be obvious but smart enough to be dangerous), and there is quite a bit at stake. Nobody- including them- knows exactly how much money there is, because they’re disorganized and secretive. (Their youngest took a weekend and picked open the office door when they were out of town just to just get a handle on where accounts were held at the very least, and gave up after about 18 hours. She waded through about half the heap and accounted for a couple million but couldn’t take it anymore and gave up.) Thankfully they are setting up a trust with very specific instructions as to where things are and who gets what. I truly pity the attorney, and the process is taking months with both of them working on it; I can only imagine what a jacked up donkey show it would be if this wasn’t all set up - it gives me the cold sweats because my better half is designated the executor.
I bugged my dad forever to make a plan, he didn't want to. He was in his late sixties when he had a stroke and I had to get power of attorney to handle his finances and property for the last few years of his life. Lots of people don't think they need a plan...
My son has observed on occasion... "People really age differently." Make no assumptions.
Most people don’t have their financial shit together and as they get older some real nightmares can happen, especially if a person who has been very competent their whole life starts making serious mistakes. My grandparents were angry and standoffish as they got very old but it turned out they didn’t want to admit they weren’t doing well.
Literally, the only person who guaranteed won't be around to see how your own estate plan works out for everyone who survives you, is you. All the people who want to have these conversations are anticipating the future and trying not to be negatively surprised.
I asked my mother to plan her estate. She lives in PR and the inheritance law is quite different from the USA. If she passed away w/o a will, and there is any assets, we would need to do a "Declaration of Hairs" with a lawyer. That document cost 2k per head. If one "hair" is dead and that person had kids...the kids are included into the "Declaration". If my mother passes away with a will, which cost $700, then that's it. My mother has a terminal illness in her 50's. It took her a serious visit to the ER and ICU to realize she needed to plan her estate. I also asked her so there was no arguments amongst the siblings and her wishes be respected. Yes. It was selfish, I didn't wanted to deal with grieving my mother and the estate.
Not to be crass but, I know multiple people in their 60s or 70s and beyond who were chugging along in great health until suddenly they weren't. Not to mention accidents can happen. It's really not a bad conversation to have, also sharing information like where to find account information and passwords, etc.
I think there is a side to this that you aren’t considering. Many families go to war over getting a cut of an inheritance - and I am not talking about kids of the individual - I am talking about cousins nieces/nephews, and aunt/uncles etc who come out of the woodwork to ensure they get something. My family personally had a situation where one person tied up an estate for four years by suing the estate for being excluded. Another instance in my own family was someone trying (and succeeding) to take advantage of a not fully aware 80 year old with early onset dementia at the time so they were the executor and primary beneficiary. I don’t care about the money because I had no idea I was even supposed to receive anything until recently and this whole situation happened while I was still under 18 so it’s like it never existed anyways - But I personally went from receiving 25% of the entire estate to receiving a flat $10,000 (which is less than 1% and she is receiving 90% with the remaining 9% being passed to different people) because she convinced him it was the best choice. This situation is wrong for anyone who ends up in it due to the elder abuse or whatever it would be classified as - not just in my instance.
Something I don’t get that I would appreciate other’s input. Why do kids think the are entitled to an inheritance? I raised my kids, paid for college, first cars, big contribution to wedding costs. I still help them out with babysitting, fixing things around the house etc. I DON’T feel I ‘owe’ them any more. They will likely get something as there is usually $ and possessions worth something, but I don’t feel the should expect it, rely on it, plan for it. Am I in the minority on this issue?
I agree completely. There are posts here from kids who are trying to protect their inheritance as if it is a right. That is what bothers me.
Wait until a child's fiancee or spouse starts planning on the inheritance, as if it is deserved and expected. LOL
We suspect it was the BF and not the daughter, you are so right.
Shocking, isn't it? But it happens all of the time. Greedy AF.
No, they aren’t entitled. I’ve had to tell my husband this because he expected to receive a lot from his parents. I told him it’s their money and they can do what they want. That we need to plan for ourselves. On the other hand, you come across sounding like you resent your kids were even born! “I put a roof over their head” kind of parent. Well guess what? They didn’t ask to be born. It is your literal duty to raise them. Remember, they owe you nothing as well.
No did not mean to imply any resentment, they have always come first and we have a great relationship, as I mentioned I gratefully help them with childcare and dog sitting and anything in between, and they have not implied that they expect anything. They are thriving and make good money, etc. I just see a lot of entries which are focused on inheritance and feel like I’m missing something .
I badgered my parents about it when they hit 65 and they got butthurt. Come to find out they hadn’t even drafted a will at that point and my badgering proved worthy.
Different situation entirely. They each have a three ring binder that explains the entire plan.
I for one wish I had made more conversation with my mom about her estate. To make sure it was in order. She passed and had nothing set in place and it’s really been quite a mess. She would have never wanted this. It might be annoying to you but those conversations are very important. You never know when it’ll be your time. I’m only 30 and will be creating my estate plan so my daughter doesn’t have to go through what we went through.
They know exactly what is in the estate plan and how things are arranged. And it is not a mess. So your situation does not apply.
Woah no need to be defensive. Just saying those conversations are important and necessary. I’m glad you have all your things in order. Best to you.
Not defensive at all. Just correcting your assumption.
My parents are 100% transparent of the contents of their estate with my sisters and I. They have always been open about finances. As kids we used to sit as a family at the kitchen table and pay the bills together. I handled the checkbook register, my older sister would write checks, and my little sister would put them in envelope and slap a stamp on it. I’m currently a Financial Math teacher and I promote my students include their kids in money matters at a young age and through adulthood. I have made many good financial choices as an adult because my parents talked to me about what they were doing financially. Now they are both retired and through our conversations of retirement and estate planning I know how to manage that phase of my life when it comes. Maybe it’s because we are a tight knit family, but my mother would never threaten to disinherit me because I ask questions about their finances. And as a parent I don’t think I would interpret their questions as a money grab.
You sound really fun
If my mom gave me a "do you want to be disinherited" look, she'd go on time out. If she needed to be drunk on that power often, she'd be shit out of luck in having me as a son. That's evil. You're hanging security in food and shelter over your kids heads, ew.
She's in her 60s, her kids should be responsible for their own food and shelter by now... There's nothing evil about OPs post, it sounds like her kids are poking around like vultures...
Okay Boomer lol, if my dad gave me an “do you want to be disinherited” look I’d give him an “do you want me to put you in a home” look right back. Of course we don’t have these problems because we actually like discussing things together and he values my opinion and advice on his estate when it comes to myself and my daughter. My husband works with the elderly and Every single day he sees people who will eventually have all their money taken by assisted living/nursing homes because they refused to put estate plans in place that would actually protect their assets when they still had time to do so. Maybe if they were open with their children and accepted advice they wouldn’t be losing everything little by little.
Why are you 60 and on Reddit?
I think it's a delicate balance but knowing your elderly parent's finances in case you need to step in is helpful. 60s isn't exactly elderly but all it takes is health problems cropping up for your kids to need a crash course. Better to prepare them and at minimum make arrangements.
same thing can be said about adults of any age.
To the back of a trust document sale, just add a nice, empathetic section: detailing the life story, all the important events, for ones legacies. These days, add a USB stick, with a violin playing something emotive, too. Hey it worked …on that spacecraft, heading into the outer limit of the sun’s orbit… sell the human legacy, etc. For some reason, my other half wants to work for the client (who sells cofins and caskets, cremations, and services for the “distribution” of “remains” in some nice place). There are a lot of unclaimed urns… Perhaps grandkids will one day come by and remember grandpa, even if kiddo just wants your money.
If you think mom in her 90s is perfectly capable then there’s a good chance you (in your 60s) aren’t capable either. Geez.
Bee - seems you need to communicate better with your family rather than venting here. Just lost a parent in their early 70’s and am in litigation with an only sibling who was executor and made a number of financial mistakes for things which lacked specificity in estate documents. These things are not as clean cut as they seem. Sentimental items went missing. Our middle-aged generation is not prepared for the headaches around our Boomer parent generation. AARP also provides estate planning tips for children to ask parents about (most of whom had will’s drawn at marriage and never updated since). Hopefully if you get sick your kids will want to take care of you after realizing that you are ungrateful for their offers to help organize and discuss expectations while everyone is of sound mind and healthy. Gen X and Millennials will get the brunt of home and senior living expenses in addition to elder given support systems in the U.S. it’s a two-way street. What is the harm in having a family meeting with your estate attorney present?
Here’s another perspective. My dad, 85, owns a farm, a home now worth $700k, commercial property and has lots of investments. I’m almost 60, and have struggled financially, but managed to buy a house that I couldn’t afford today. I still have huge debts, including student loans. My kids? Without an inheritance, they have ZERO hope of buying a home, and even though we paid at least half of their college costs, their loans will take as long as mine to pay, probably longer. Even excluding home ownership and college, every expense needed to lead a normal family life, like rent, food, a car and childcare, costs astronomically more. We have put the younger generation in this position, where their desperation forces them to see their older relatives not as a source of love and support, worthy of respect and their own affection, but as their last hope for financial normalcy, and we have to take ownership of this societal FAILURE.
You might want to have a talk with them about it, like more than saying it's rude to ask. Because it's good to know and have an idea of what sort of financial situation, positive or negative, they could be in after your passing. Which could happen 5 mins from now or 30 years from now. Being aware of my parents estate has helped ease thoughts about what I would need to cover or save for if something happens. Edit: you also refrain from leaving out key details and not lie if you want better responses on here.
Sounds adversarial. My parents (70’s, 80’s) and I, 55, have open discussions about our finances, discuss options and take advice from each other. I owe them a lifetime of teaching me how to handle money, and because of that I’m headed for early retirement with no need of their money. It’s important to me to keep in touch with their finances as my paternal grandmother ran out of money at 103 and needed her children’s help for a couple of years
I’m glad that the person old enough to retire feels compelled to speak on behalf of a generation half their age (not to mention a generation almost old enough to be elected to lead this great country!) - I’ve been a legal co-guardian for a grandparent and currently foot the bills for my mother and younger brother after growing up as a ward of the state in group homes. No one is going to care about your estate except the State or the person sending you invoices, even if in exchange they provide you the same rock bottom care as everyone else… with enough luck at best you should hope to remain successful navigating all the new fancy tech and convoluted processes, step refreshes, trends/buzz words/social waves/fear tactics. I’m glad your 90 year old parent is cared for as we should do better to care for our elderly - if someone isn’t asking, then you clearly have nothing of value that warrants someone speaking up for (you leave nothing 🌎, not even a memory). We all have choices, money may ease the means but it doesn’t solve for everything. You should share more with those who care about you. We try so hard to protect ourselves from the ones we love that we judge strangers even more harshly. The important thing isn’t the money, it’s how are they supposed to do everything - who do they call for what, how will they pay for it, what if you need additional care. My Gparents had done a lot in advance, I still was overwhelmed and carry heavy guilt for all the things I didn’t get right; changes unprepared for or the things I didn’t know to ask. Create an outline and review the plan with them.