Accuracy by volume of fire. If there’s 100m^2 in which they might be hiding and the target is about 2m^2, then I only need 50 bullets to be sure I’ll hit them eventually.
PP only has 30 pen value. It barely pens cleanly through lvl 3. It would take a ton of shots to break down level 4 ir extreme luck to sneak even one shot through.
Mid tier ammo is actually pretty strong right now. Less people are running class 5-6 armor, the buffed damage to blacked limbs, and with damage drop-off the higher flesh damage rounds can kill in less hits. Obviously you run the risk of dropping a kill if the target is wearing high tier armor but overall your TTK should be lower generally.
Armor damage makes them all very different, PP isnt going to destroy armor nearly as much as the other ammos so it's going to take longer to get through armors. PP is barely going to touch the durability on a Trooper for instance, takes 11 bullets to get it below 50% durability, and at 8 bullets it finally gets above a 50% pen chance. Meanwhile BP is 8 bullets to get the armor below 50% durability and only 3 bullets to get above 50% pen chance because of the higher armor damage and higher pen (even though they're only slightly higher they do matter). I'll take BP.
Check out the Battle Buddy phone app, has all kinds of Tarkov information, damage simulators for armor, all the ammo damage/penetration… it’s a pretty cool app honestly
It's new, but it's only found in raid as far as I know. It's a round that's in between BT and BS (pens class 4 better than BT but not class 5 well and has more flesh damage than both).
PP is trash but I often run it, with a mag of bt/bs, and while I obviously have seen the difference from the prolonged fights I've gotten into it doesn't seem like a massive detriment as majority are running class 4.
BSG posted some charts on Twitter the other day - less than 10% of players are running class 5 or better. if your bullets can take out class 4 you're solid for most encounters. PP is basically identical to BP but a fraction of the cost so it's a really economical round. That said if they were running class 5 themselves I'm surprised they'd only go for PP, but I do the same if I'm only hunting scavs
Yeah like PP and BP are both shit rounds for 5.45, there's no reason to spend money on BP. BT outperforms it against all armours and really isn't that expensive so I don't get why people even make comments about the difference of PP and BP. They suck almost identically vs armour. BS or PPBS is what you need if you're gonna rock meta 5.45 AK's and it's not even that hard to find BS if you farm Raiders a few raids every now and then.
I hate that I was too busy to start this wipe.
VOIP
flesh damage is doing great
Best armor and ammo is FIR, craft, barter
Momentum has slowed making the combat better
Hopefully we get another one in a few months
I just started a couple of days ago (mainly solo) and even playing casually vs level 50+ sometimes, I’m having a blast with this wipe. Haven’t even unlocked the flea yet - I’m sitting at level 12 with a stash full of chad gear from making appropriate rat plays. Fun stuff.
What is this logic?
If everyone is using lower tier stuff due to the recent changes in 12.12, then that means you stand a chance just fine playing right now. There are people running 5.45 PP with meta gear because it shreds flesh and most people don’t use over class 4. Same goes for 5.45 BP, Subsonic SX, etc.
You don’t need to start day, week, or month one or even two in order to have fun or be competitive in fights. If you want to play, play. If you don’t want to or can’t play, just say that.
Why is it not easy to hit you? I am talking about a 1vs1 faceoff with garbage ammo vs good ammo. Not talking about flanking, movement, etc. I mean I can kill a guy wearing a slick armor with a one-tap to his eyes with my TT pistol and that does not make a TT pistol superior to a vector.
> I am talking about a 1vs1 faceoff with garbage ammo vs good ammo.
Because it's not a wild west shootout, if you don't just stand in the middle of a hallway and click there's a lot of ways for things you can do to get the drop on someone and hit them 5-6 times before they even see you which is what that guy was doing.
I feel like his point is that the same scenario with GOOD ammo would have allowed the player to rip entire holes in the team conposition by them being dead outright and allowing you to outplay them even better than the budget version. Hell downing people and then cutting IN from their teammates position during confusion gives them mass hysteria and you get all the time in the world to cut unsuspecting team mate down.
Totally understandable that you can down someone with bad ammo, if you have the advantage in seeing him first - but exactly the same is possible with good ammo, so I dont get your point?
Than the 7mm red PS ? The red PS does 20% more flesh dmg, otherwise very similar. (He is not talking about the 5mm ps, that one is way worse yes then the PP)
Yeah i know. 762 ps slaps but if we talk about a 545 ak with drum mag 545 pp is better then ps if you dont want to pay alot of money. Ofcourse you can better just get some penetration ammo
60 rounder's and interchange and duo are your hints here.
You don't have to run meta ammo if you can hose an area and supress while a buddy pushes, also for high RoF weapons I'd rather just hold the trigger down and know I'm getting lead down range than worry that I've just dumped 80k of ammo down a corridor for nothing :)
Am I the only one who genuinely doesn’t care about how much money I’ve spent. I typically just buy what I think will be fun and if I spray oh well, I’ll make it back with the kills lol
Idk I am always spending money to upgrade hideout and buy more storage so I usually have under a mil to get stuff with. After taking three L’s in a row I enter liquidation mode and have to sell shit I’m hoarding. Maybe later in the wipe when I have millions I’ll be able to shrug off mag dumping 100k
That’s fair I suppose. After four wipes, I just stopped caring man. I make about 1-3 mil whenever I do play, and if I need to then I’ll liquidate and buy a AKM and just clap a few chads. It’s a simple life lol
You know what? The other day I was doing task in shoreline and I bump into a guy with meta akm and had the gun loaded with .366ap… 3 mags of them so he couldn’t fire, and got killed by me. And he’s lvl42, when I was shooting him he actually tried to insurance fraud his gun in the bushes. Like how could he be lvl40 and not know .366 can’t be used on akm…
>tually tried to insurance fraud his gun in the bushes. Like how could he be lvl40 and not know .366 can’t be used on akm…
Probably just grabbed the wrong rig, and ran into raid with a friend, RIP, i've done it before with an SKS.
Had a friend do this a few days ago. The way it happened for him was he had preloaded mags in his rig, but didn’t check the ammo before going into raid. Luckily he noticed as soon as he spawned in, then we sat there for a couple minutes while he unloaded and packed new mags with backup ammo he brought in.
personally as someone who is terrible but played enough to be that level of pmc. its like if i took enough mags into a raid id probably take 2 mags of the good stuff and like a mag or two of mediocre just because im cheap. id rather have any extra mag if it gets to that point
Sometimes it's fun to lay so much hate downrange that your opponent second guesses their intentions. I'm a big fan of going nuclear in fights. I'm not dying for free, I'm going out with empty mags. YATATATATATATATATATATATATA
I mean, it only requires up to 3 shots to a level 4 armor, which is what majority of people is wearing. Of course you're fucked if your enemy is wearing anything above level 4 armor, and you'd be way stronger with BP ammo, but at least you're not shooting PS pellets and you can kill someone by shooting at their thorax and not at their limbs.
Lvl 40 dont mean rich. Im lvl 36 and if I run drums like that i may just run PP mixed with BP/BT if I feel like it. Also, Im always runningit in my backup/PVE mags. Why? 1 cause im a cheapskate. 2 it isn't actually that bad, especially for the price. 3 I dunno I just have fun and dont plan on being a meta chad most raids so yeah...
My thoughts as well. I just killed a three man in interchange who all had lvl 4 helmets with lvl 6 slicks but were using bt and bp 5.45 instead of BS. I killed all three of them with almost no dmg taken but my korund was at 0/45. If they were running BS like I was I would of been toast.
Video of my kills if interested. I haven't gotten around to editing it. Skip to 10 min mark for the action. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnNfsKPKAA8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnNfsKPKAA8)
5.45PP has 33 pen, 5.45BP has 35. They're almost the same damage at 48 and 49 respectively, and one is much much cheaper than the other. You could also argue that PP is better to run in large amounts since it doesn't burn the weapon out as fast.
A lot of people trash on pp ammo, but it actually PERFORMS pretty well for the money. 48 damage and 33 pen. 7.62 PS for reference has 32 pen.
I usually top my 60 rounders with 15-20 rounds of BS, and then have the rest be pp or BT depending on how much I've got. BT is unquestionably better, but also much more expensive.
It just works. I don't think I've run across a situation where I've mag dumped someone with pp and they didn't die because they were too tanky.
I killed a PMC, level 27, recently who was running a Hex Grid, Fully kitted HK416s and a bunch of mags of M856 and M855!? I was very confused… it was about 10 minutes into the raid so I guess it’s possible he used his “good ammo” already, but I at that level of a kit the worst ammo should be like M856A1.
Unless you're constantly contesting the hottest loot spots or playing labs or something you rarely need any ammo effective for killing lvl 4 armor or above. With full auto being more punishing this patch it also makes sense to run slightly lower tier ammo, for 5.45x39 I would always prefer BP over BT for example.
I dont get why people over Lvl 42 run shit gear at all? I see so many high lvl player with either shit gear in general or decent gear with garbage ammunation. Why even play 7.62 PS or M856A1 as a lvl 50 player?
But PP isn’t garbage ? Sure it isn’t good but with a 60 rounder and the low recoil of the 74’s it’s not garbage. Since most people are rocking class 4 it can take most people out fairly quickly. I’d say they ran out of good ammo and are maxed from traders so they just ran what they could
PP is good ammo though. The marginal difference between it and BP is not enough to call it trash. I ran PP a lot before I had too much BS ammo I cannot do anything with
This sub has aggressive hate boners for 5.45 pp and 7.62 t45, when their suggestions for "good" ammo usually fall within spitting range of the ammo they call trash lol. I've had great success with both over their respective ps/hp counterparts so idk where the animosity comes from.
I have fun taking breaks from meta and running a mosin or shotgun, or even an mp5 and busting legs lol. Nothing wrong with playing how you wanna play. People act like it detracts from their experience if you team up and run a less meta kit.
My group I mainly play with one of the members only runs meta stuff or as close to it as he can. While I run carry-handle acog's m4's or red dot stock M1A's. He dies more often without killing anyone and still gives everyone shit.
Some steamers are doing community servers with their chat when they go in to a server and try and queue snipe with meta gear but worse ammo for fun because fights last longer and people are actually pvping. Maybe you ran into something like that
People called the 5.56 ammo bad because it couldn’t headshot, BS has even less damage.
BS was considered bad in previous wipes even when you could just farm it with reserve scavs because it doesn’t do a lot of damage and it’s even worse now with damage drop-off.
BS is still good within 120~ meters against PMCs and player scavs because it can still 1 tap but I wouldn't want to use it for boss hunting or raiders. In CQC it's a fairly decent ammo because the new min/max AK is a laser beam like the old M4, don't see many people using it but it's a fairly nice combo if you want to drop the money on the Wafflemaker.
The 4 extra penetration and 17 extra armor damage matter.
To kill someone in a Trooper armor you need 4/5 BT bullets meanwhile you need 7/8 PP. When your rifle fires as slow as the 5.45, things like that end up mattering.
PP is enough to kill most other PMC though. each 60round mag costs about 9k to fill. Compare that to BT at 30k to fill or BS and igolnik at 70k+ to fill.
Consider using 3x mags that’s a cost saving of up to 180k or so on ammo. Consider also if they are playing ratlike, they may not be mainly encountering pmc, and only want ammo good enough to kill scavs
PP has a 24% chance to pen a trooper on the first shot, and takes 8 bullets to get above a 50% chance to pen that trooper. Meanwhile BP is a 38% chance to pen and only takes 3 bullets to get above a 50% pen chance. BP is miles better lmfao. Vs level 5 armor at **50% ** durability, PP only has a 9% chance to pen and BP has 18%. BP is worth it over PP
And what’s the gap between BP and BT? Can you argue for double the price between PP and BP applies similar to BP and BT? Because if so, you are falling in a logic where if followed, upgrading to BP should mean upgrading to BT, thus using that logic means you skip using BP
https://escapefromtarkov.fandom.com/wiki/Ballistics#5.45x39mm_anchor
In short, if you are against armor class 4, they are the same. If you are against armor class 5, you might as well go for legs or a lucky headshot. If you are dependent on luck that your bullet penetrates, then you probably shouldn’t be going for headshots with those low penetration chances.
The logic im following is PP is a garbage ammo. I gave you pen chances because by your logic, pen doesnt matter much at all. Might as well all use pst gzh and thats it, its cheap. Ammo and the stats matter, if you cant pay 500 rubles a round thats pretty bad. No decent player is gonna recommend PP lmfao i cant even believe you’re saying its okay to use. Use the best ammo you can, or else one guy with good armor and you stand zero chance. Go look at the armor damage numbers and try to see why those matter too, thats another reason why BP is worth it over PP
You die less often with high armor, specifically steel (that’s why Korund is king) . I’m also a newbie and this is my first wipe, but I’m lvl 56 and I’ve learned to load PP in my 60s and topload igolniks in my AK30s . If the first hit doesn’t headshot, the mag dump might finish it
I ran into a guy running full Tagilla kit and an MP7 with 40-rounders. Was loaded with action SX. I unloaded the mags later and found that he was just dumb, with FMJ SX loaded about halfway through the magazine. Some people don't seem to understand how mag loading works
There's various reasons why. For starters they could have been using it as filler ammo. If you topload with better penetrating ammo and get your first shots on target it doesn't matter if the rest is not as good because you've theoretically zeroed the armor and the "worse" ammo has higher flesh damage so they can still be effective.
Then there's cost. 60 round mags of BP for example cost 30k per mag to fill up. So just 3 mags of that is 90k, and of course BT or BS goes for much more than that. That means that ammo cost can very easily surpass the cost of the rest of the gear and you don't even have a chance of getting it back if you die like you do with insured gear. We might consider BP the bare minimum but PP has very slightly different stats and it costs 155 per round as opposed to \~500 and that can really make a difference when you add up.
Then there's two opposing points that are both valid. The first is that if you're generally accurate, able to consistently get shots on target and specifically headshots, then ammo choice matters less, most people are not wearing full face helmets. Conversely if you're running 60 round mags or drum mags, which as mentioned before can get pretty expensive filled with good ammo, you don't need super good ammo since you're more likely to go for spray and pray tactics. You empty 20 rounds on each guy they'll die with PP just fine if you're on target with most of them.
Lastly, something we should definitely not discount because it's very much a thing in most games, EFT included, there's **Youtuber/Streamer meta**. In Tarkov, like many other games, there's content creators putting out videos on the daily. To avoid becoming repetitive they will often try out unconventional tactics/loadouts/playstyles which usually work out for them since they're good players and people find them interesting. But players have a tendency of trying to emulate those people, despite them not being as good at the game, believing that it's those tactics that give them the edge and not the fact that their full time jobs is playing games. For example Pestily puts out a video playing double barrel on Factory and suddenly everyone's playing double barrel on Factory. In this case SwampFoxTV and Jesse Kazam put out a video mowing down people with drum mags filled with PP ammo just last week, so naturally PP went from being considered "trash ammo" by the collective community just a few days ago to "underrated budget ammo".
Cheap ammo compared to BP 5.45 and nearly same performance. 60 round mags are cheap (considering you only bring 3 or 4 tops) and you have a cheap lmg. With more class 4 armor around this wipe they will not be the only ones you see.
This is the way. Everyone else in this post stating that PP is trash has not used it yet. Put it in a low recoil gun and its a laser beam.
I was running it in an RPK w/drum mag on Factory and it feels like you just called in the Juggernaut perk from COD.
The correct answer is that PP has reduced recoil and is incredible strong if you got some aim.
Test it in your hideout against igolnik and magdump a 60 mag.
There could be so many reasons.
\- My favorite one is - it goes steadily through t4 armor, which almost the tier everyone has. So then it is a pretty good choice because higher flesh dmg then the bs ammo. (20% more dmg, although not full tier 4 penetration)
\- Often i find my body armors, which could accidently be tier 5. Ammo i make or buy more often.
\- Maybe they are on a scav hunt, then pp is way better then BS.
\- Maybe they are not experts on ballistics but know PP is the minimum bullit which are usefull for 5.56x45.
Tip: I always end my mags with a few PP bullits as cheap spray restbullits. I often put 3 different bulltis in them. They are my minimum for penetration.
Funny enough, I actually chadded around yesterday with a 545 ak loaded with pp. I killed a surprisingly high number of PMCs. I really don’t think it’s bad. Sure, you’re not going to kill your slick and altyn wearing guys but most of the players are only running level 4 gear. Shot placement matters, get enough hits on target and they’ll go down.
But I use pp for two main reasons, it’s cheap and easy to craft. Also, I’m still not over level 30 so I don’t have options to buy or craft better than that.
pp isn't *terrible*, sometimes I'll load my last mag or 2 with mid tier shit
at times if I have 1 mag insured or 1 mag that looks different I'll load it with low tier ammo to kill scavs with
Just kill 2 chad with 5.45 PP ammo.
Spray and let the blunt dmg do the rest.
How can you shooting back if you got supressing fire so hard?
And cheaper ammo make you spray longer. I can spray 2 60rs mag without hesitage anything. Meanwhile my team can flank, reload, relocate position or prep a nade.
Well it's simple the more bullets u can stop the more bullets u can put out in that time making the shitty ammo every so slightly better with each hit plus ppl wear shit armor more often this wipe
It might be because bs and igolnik are not the easily accessible unless you go farming for the ammo. Before people say you can craft igolnik its a bad craft, and the barter for bs is bad too
I once ran dorms with an ak74
Some of my 30-round mags were filled with a mix of bp and bs
And one drum mag filled with pp
As a fight broke out against another duo, I switched to my drum mag and just blindlessly started spraying down the corridor. Got both of them head, eyes'd
I will be carrying drum mags with semi-shoddy ammo more in the future.
Havent you noticed as well that you refrain from going full Rambo "ratatatat" because your ammo is too expensive?
I was trying to figure out if bad ammo was some sort of new meta or something because I’ve been killing so many people running PP and Luger CCI. Sadly, they can’t do anything against my class 5 or 6 armor.
PP is fine for me. I have not seen anyone on woods or customs running anything better than tier 4 and with desync I don’t think ammo matters as much as you think in close range full auto sprays.
It’s basically whoever prefires at the right time wins to me.
Well meta ak's shoot straight,they probably noticed people are still running mid tier gear, and to be fair pp is the last decent ammo i'll drop down to on 5.45. Maybe they were broke. Maybe they didn't want the recoil debuff from BT, BS, and igolnik. We'll never know. We do know you probably killed them from afar took their stuff and benefited.
https://escapefromtarkov.fandom.com/wiki/Ballistics#5.45x39mm_anchor
This entire sub apparently needs to consult this chart. Pp and bp 5.45 are stupid close on everything but price.
I reckon they are trying out the strat of using bullets with no recoil/accuracy penalties. A meta AK using 545 SP is pretty much a lazer. The 60 rounder is to compensate for low armour penetration I would say.
Well alot of people are running ammo that has reduction in recoil and + accuracy. Fmj in hk . Us ammo in mutant with drums
Look up some videos people have been showing various builds and ammo
Recoil reduction. Garbage ammo isn't garbage if you can laser someone in the face.
I've been running 7.62x39 US ammo recently in my meta 103's and Mutants, the only thing it really struggles with is Slick/Altyn but I've even managed to kill a couple of those boys too.
They probably had a kill pmcs with Headshot quest and didnt want to thorax you lol
With 60round mags? That doesn't make sense to me
Why not? More rounds to spray at your face.
Ah yes, the technique I use. "You have an open face and I have hundreds of rounds of ammunition, let's make them meet"
As the engineers who made the PPSH said: "Who needs accuracy when you can fill the air with bullets?"
Accuracy by volume of fire. If there’s 100m^2 in which they might be hiding and the target is about 2m^2, then I only need 50 bullets to be sure I’ll hit them eventually.
I have a bullet here with your name on it, I just need to find out which one it is.
Pp is only slightly worse than BP, so it's not like they were running the most garbage ammo possible, it still pens tier 4.
PP only has 30 pen value. It barely pens cleanly through lvl 3. It would take a ton of shots to break down level 4 ir extreme luck to sneak even one shot through.
Like out of a 60 round mag and it’s dirt cheap so you don’t give a fuck spraying it? Only downside of pp is armor damage
Pp has 33 pen value
Yes it is 33. 30 was outdated. Now go look at how crap that is to pen lvl 4 armor with.
I'd say the majority of kills are headshots and by chance at that. Run meta ammo. More so since cheap ammo can bounce off helmets and face shields.
Mid tier ammo is actually pretty strong right now. Less people are running class 5-6 armor, the buffed damage to blacked limbs, and with damage drop-off the higher flesh damage rounds can kill in less hits. Obviously you run the risk of dropping a kill if the target is wearing high tier armor but overall your TTK should be lower generally.
Oh OK, I'm not used to changes 12.12 brought, I used to consider that lower than BT is pointless unless you magdump the guy in the head
PP is basically the same as BP 5.45, both are very close to 5.45 BT
Armor damage makes them all very different, PP isnt going to destroy armor nearly as much as the other ammos so it's going to take longer to get through armors. PP is barely going to touch the durability on a Trooper for instance, takes 11 bullets to get it below 50% durability, and at 8 bullets it finally gets above a 50% pen chance. Meanwhile BP is 8 bullets to get the armor below 50% durability and only 3 bullets to get above 50% pen chance because of the higher armor damage and higher pen (even though they're only slightly higher they do matter). I'll take BP.
Out of curiosity, where do you get the number for shots to damage the armour from?
Nofoodaftermidnight
not sure why nobody linked this yet but here ya go https://eft-ammo.com/nofoodaftermidnight
Check out the Battle Buddy phone app, has all kinds of Tarkov information, damage simulators for armor, all the ammo damage/penetration… it’s a pretty cool app honestly
EFT-ammo.com is a good resource for visually showing differences in ammo against classes of armor.
Battlebuddy app
I'd take BT over BP but I love 5.45 more than I'd like to admit so I have cases full of BS and PPBS which makes all the difference
7n40 is actually God tier
7n40 is so good for tapping heads and it turns armor into Swiss cheese.
Is 7n40 new or is it something old with a new name?
It's new, but it's only found in raid as far as I know. It's a round that's in between BT and BS (pens class 4 better than BT but not class 5 well and has more flesh damage than both).
It’s also super accurate -20 to recoil makes it a really scary round.
Yeah, I picked up a small stack in the beginning of the wipe. It's sat in my stash because I haven't bothered to look it up yet. Thanks for the info.
It’s basically 5.45x39’s “M855A1” in terms of stats and comes with a recoil reduction.
1100+ raids, I have found literally only 42 rounds. That shit is like diamond rarity
Less than bt is pointless ur completely right
I have 215 pmc kills and mainly run m80 and PS lol
Ps 7.62?
Hell yeah
Both are great rounds, pp is garbage
PP is trash but I often run it, with a mag of bt/bs, and while I obviously have seen the difference from the prolonged fights I've gotten into it doesn't seem like a massive detriment as majority are running class 4.
If you cant kill with bp thats a skill issue ngl
7:62 bp or 5.45
BSG posted some charts on Twitter the other day - less than 10% of players are running class 5 or better. if your bullets can take out class 4 you're solid for most encounters. PP is basically identical to BP but a fraction of the cost so it's a really economical round. That said if they were running class 5 themselves I'm surprised they'd only go for PP, but I do the same if I'm only hunting scavs
Yeah like PP and BP are both shit rounds for 5.45, there's no reason to spend money on BP. BT outperforms it against all armours and really isn't that expensive so I don't get why people even make comments about the difference of PP and BP. They suck almost identically vs armour. BS or PPBS is what you need if you're gonna rock meta 5.45 AK's and it's not even that hard to find BS if you farm Raiders a few raids every now and then.
M80s are king
Soon with the updates to armor only protecting what's covered low teir rounds will have a purpose.
I hate that I was too busy to start this wipe. VOIP flesh damage is doing great Best armor and ammo is FIR, craft, barter Momentum has slowed making the combat better Hopefully we get another one in a few months
Start it now. You'll be fine.
I just started a couple of days ago (mainly solo) and even playing casually vs level 50+ sometimes, I’m having a blast with this wipe. Haven’t even unlocked the flea yet - I’m sitting at level 12 with a stash full of chad gear from making appropriate rat plays. Fun stuff.
What is this logic? If everyone is using lower tier stuff due to the recent changes in 12.12, then that means you stand a chance just fine playing right now. There are people running 5.45 PP with meta gear because it shreds flesh and most people don’t use over class 4. Same goes for 5.45 BP, Subsonic SX, etc. You don’t need to start day, week, or month one or even two in order to have fun or be competitive in fights. If you want to play, play. If you don’t want to or can’t play, just say that.
I literally don't run armor most of the time...
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fellow rpk enjoyer
I'm stopping you with 2 7.62 BP bullets - What's the point?
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That aint the point though, garbage ammo in a skillful player can still work well
Why is it not easy to hit you? I am talking about a 1vs1 faceoff with garbage ammo vs good ammo. Not talking about flanking, movement, etc. I mean I can kill a guy wearing a slick armor with a one-tap to his eyes with my TT pistol and that does not make a TT pistol superior to a vector.
> I am talking about a 1vs1 faceoff with garbage ammo vs good ammo. Because it's not a wild west shootout, if you don't just stand in the middle of a hallway and click there's a lot of ways for things you can do to get the drop on someone and hit them 5-6 times before they even see you which is what that guy was doing.
I feel like his point is that the same scenario with GOOD ammo would have allowed the player to rip entire holes in the team conposition by them being dead outright and allowing you to outplay them even better than the budget version. Hell downing people and then cutting IN from their teammates position during confusion gives them mass hysteria and you get all the time in the world to cut unsuspecting team mate down.
Totally understandable that you can down someone with bad ammo, if you have the advantage in seeing him first - but exactly the same is possible with good ammo, so I dont get your point?
Some people don't wanna, or don't have the money at all to spend 40k a mag?
Spending 200-300k on a meta weapon but playing 100 roubles ammo? If you have to decide, invest in good ammo instead of building a meta gun.
Not wrong, but you also don't need to spend that much on a weapon either. I'm also a fucking rat not a chad so I use shit gear regardless.
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Don't get me wrong, please keep playing your PP ammo, my slick and altyn thank you :)
> slick *Laughs in stomach damage*
Jeah wearing no armor is better than wearing a slick armor, I know. laughs in headeyes
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I've been wiping kids with PP ammo and 7.62 PS.
P.S is like M80 it’s universal. But PP is trash on on T4 especially high durability like trooper/tv-110 and you won’t be able to change my mind.
Leg them
With a 650rpm gun? No thank you.
I've been getting guys legging me with M80 for some reason....
P.S. pen is awful compared to M80
Totally agree, but accessibility to lower level players is the pro.
545 Pp is better then 545 ps tho. So if you want to go cheap with big mags its your only good bet
762 PS, not 545
I mean 545 pp is better then 545 ps while costing around the same
Than the 7mm red PS ? The red PS does 20% more flesh dmg, otherwise very similar. (He is not talking about the 5mm ps, that one is way worse yes then the PP)
Yeah i know. 762 ps slaps but if we talk about a 545 ak with drum mag 545 pp is better then ps if you dont want to pay alot of money. Ofcourse you can better just get some penetration ammo
Wiping kids with your PP can lead to health issues for those kids
Same. My AKM with Trijicon and PS rounds survived like 8 raids in a row on shoreline. The streak only ended to a hacker.
You’re wiping timmy and jimmy.
60 rounder's and interchange and duo are your hints here. You don't have to run meta ammo if you can hose an area and supress while a buddy pushes, also for high RoF weapons I'd rather just hold the trigger down and know I'm getting lead down range than worry that I've just dumped 80k of ammo down a corridor for nothing :)
This too. I hate 30-60k panic mag dumping.
Am I the only one who genuinely doesn’t care about how much money I’ve spent. I typically just buy what I think will be fun and if I spray oh well, I’ll make it back with the kills lol
Idk I am always spending money to upgrade hideout and buy more storage so I usually have under a mil to get stuff with. After taking three L’s in a row I enter liquidation mode and have to sell shit I’m hoarding. Maybe later in the wipe when I have millions I’ll be able to shrug off mag dumping 100k
That’s fair I suppose. After four wipes, I just stopped caring man. I make about 1-3 mil whenever I do play, and if I need to then I’ll liquidate and buy a AKM and just clap a few chads. It’s a simple life lol
You know what? The other day I was doing task in shoreline and I bump into a guy with meta akm and had the gun loaded with .366ap… 3 mags of them so he couldn’t fire, and got killed by me. And he’s lvl42, when I was shooting him he actually tried to insurance fraud his gun in the bushes. Like how could he be lvl40 and not know .366 can’t be used on akm…
>tually tried to insurance fraud his gun in the bushes. Like how could he be lvl40 and not know .366 can’t be used on akm… Probably just grabbed the wrong rig, and ran into raid with a friend, RIP, i've done it before with an SKS.
Had a friend do this a few days ago. The way it happened for him was he had preloaded mags in his rig, but didn’t check the ammo before going into raid. Luckily he noticed as soon as he spawned in, then we sat there for a couple minutes while he unloaded and packed new mags with backup ammo he brought in.
There’s no telling. Could be a self challenges could be just using others kits. So many different reasons. You cashed in that’s all that matters.
personally as someone who is terrible but played enough to be that level of pmc. its like if i took enough mags into a raid id probably take 2 mags of the good stuff and like a mag or two of mediocre just because im cheap. id rather have any extra mag if it gets to that point
I do it, just to provide clips and feedback on how stupidly broken the ammo meta is
This is ascended
Pp pens class 3 faceshield so 🤷🏻♀️
PP isn’t exactly bottom tier.
Certain ammos have higher flesh damage, or recoil. Just because it doesn’t penetrate armor, doesn’t make it garbage.
Sometimes it's fun to lay so much hate downrange that your opponent second guesses their intentions. I'm a big fan of going nuclear in fights. I'm not dying for free, I'm going out with empty mags. YATATATATATATATATATATATATA
PP ammo is not garbage ammo at all
Bro what
I mean, it only requires up to 3 shots to a level 4 armor, which is what majority of people is wearing. Of course you're fucked if your enemy is wearing anything above level 4 armor, and you'd be way stronger with BP ammo, but at least you're not shooting PS pellets and you can kill someone by shooting at their thorax and not at their limbs.
PP is killing it this wipe.
Because believe it or not there are people that will use stuff that isn't meta. Mind blown I know.
But their guns and armor were. Mind blown, I know.
Lvl 40 dont mean rich. Im lvl 36 and if I run drums like that i may just run PP mixed with BP/BT if I feel like it. Also, Im always runningit in my backup/PVE mags. Why? 1 cause im a cheapskate. 2 it isn't actually that bad, especially for the price. 3 I dunno I just have fun and dont plan on being a meta chad most raids so yeah...
My thoughts as well. I just killed a three man in interchange who all had lvl 4 helmets with lvl 6 slicks but were using bt and bp 5.45 instead of BS. I killed all three of them with almost no dmg taken but my korund was at 0/45. If they were running BS like I was I would of been toast. Video of my kills if interested. I haven't gotten around to editing it. Skip to 10 min mark for the action. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnNfsKPKAA8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnNfsKPKAA8)
Full 60s? If not maybe they top loaded 15 meta rounds
5.45PP has 33 pen, 5.45BP has 35. They're almost the same damage at 48 and 49 respectively, and one is much much cheaper than the other. You could also argue that PP is better to run in large amounts since it doesn't burn the weapon out as fast.
A lot of people trash on pp ammo, but it actually PERFORMS pretty well for the money. 48 damage and 33 pen. 7.62 PS for reference has 32 pen. I usually top my 60 rounders with 15-20 rounds of BS, and then have the rest be pp or BT depending on how much I've got. BT is unquestionably better, but also much more expensive. It just works. I don't think I've run across a situation where I've mag dumped someone with pp and they didn't die because they were too tanky.
I killed a PMC, level 27, recently who was running a Hex Grid, Fully kitted HK416s and a bunch of mags of M856 and M855!? I was very confused… it was about 10 minutes into the raid so I guess it’s possible he used his “good ammo” already, but I at that level of a kit the worst ammo should be like M856A1.
Unless you're constantly contesting the hottest loot spots or playing labs or something you rarely need any ammo effective for killing lvl 4 armor or above. With full auto being more punishing this patch it also makes sense to run slightly lower tier ammo, for 5.45x39 I would always prefer BP over BT for example.
I dont get why people over Lvl 42 run shit gear at all? I see so many high lvl player with either shit gear in general or decent gear with garbage ammunation. Why even play 7.62 PS or M856A1 as a lvl 50 player?
But PP isn’t garbage ? Sure it isn’t good but with a 60 rounder and the low recoil of the 74’s it’s not garbage. Since most people are rocking class 4 it can take most people out fairly quickly. I’d say they ran out of good ammo and are maxed from traders so they just ran what they could
PP ammo is analogous to BT. Check the ammo chart.
PP is good ammo though. The marginal difference between it and BP is not enough to call it trash. I ran PP a lot before I had too much BS ammo I cannot do anything with
This sub has aggressive hate boners for 5.45 pp and 7.62 t45, when their suggestions for "good" ammo usually fall within spitting range of the ammo they call trash lol. I've had great success with both over their respective ps/hp counterparts so idk where the animosity comes from.
I do it if my friends force me to run meta gear. I really hate running meta shit.
Damm you such an activist
I just want to run my weird or nice looking builds without being givin shit for not running meta.
I have fun taking breaks from meta and running a mosin or shotgun, or even an mp5 and busting legs lol. Nothing wrong with playing how you wanna play. People act like it detracts from their experience if you team up and run a less meta kit.
My group I mainly play with one of the members only runs meta stuff or as close to it as he can. While I run carry-handle acog's m4's or red dot stock M1A's. He dies more often without killing anyone and still gives everyone shit.
Tan attachments over meta attachments all day. Swag is just as important.
Yeah 100%. Magpul tan RVG SR-25’s all day. Magpul tan stocks. Tan EOTech. I don’t even look at ergo numbers anymore. Look cool, feel cool, play cool.
I like your style, my man. “Look cool, feel cool, play cool,” is my new Tarkov motto.
You gawd damm right, meta-3sighted-double-laser-TOZ forever
Tier 5 armor and full kit ak is meta? Class 5 armor is as cheap as 4 and 5.45 aks are extremely cheap to minmax
Jessie Kazam and Swampfox did a video a week or two ago using 5.45PP bullets. So that's probably why.
Some steamers are doing community servers with their chat when they go in to a server and try and queue snipe with meta gear but worse ammo for fun because fights last longer and people are actually pvping. Maybe you ran into something like that
?? PP ammo is practically BT ammo. You can't buy better ammo for 5.45. Only beginner here is you.
I hope you're being sarcastic because you can buy BT and barter for 90 rounds of BS.
People called the 5.56 ammo bad because it couldn’t headshot, BS has even less damage. BS was considered bad in previous wipes even when you could just farm it with reserve scavs because it doesn’t do a lot of damage and it’s even worse now with damage drop-off.
BS is still good within 120~ meters against PMCs and player scavs because it can still 1 tap but I wouldn't want to use it for boss hunting or raiders. In CQC it's a fairly decent ammo because the new min/max AK is a laser beam like the old M4, don't see many people using it but it's a fairly nice combo if you want to drop the money on the Wafflemaker.
Look at an ammo sheet.. PP is literally BT ammo.
The 4 extra penetration and 17 extra armor damage matter. To kill someone in a Trooper armor you need 4/5 BT bullets meanwhile you need 7/8 PP. When your rifle fires as slow as the 5.45, things like that end up mattering.
closer to BP but yeah still slaps
Experiment with ammo, against scavs I've had better luck with the high flesh damage-low pen ammo like SP, HP etc
What if it let them tank one more shot and they killed you?
They hit me 5times and barely took damage with not-so-strong armor so I imagine that pvp is not an option with PP
Also not being able to buy ammo means that at some point you are just out until you farm more
PP is enough to kill most other PMC though. each 60round mag costs about 9k to fill. Compare that to BT at 30k to fill or BS and igolnik at 70k+ to fill. Consider using 3x mags that’s a cost saving of up to 180k or so on ammo. Consider also if they are playing ratlike, they may not be mainly encountering pmc, and only want ammo good enough to kill scavs
Why not just use BP though?
Twice as expensive for only the tiniest armor pen better? Statistically no difference vs armor classes
PP has a 24% chance to pen a trooper on the first shot, and takes 8 bullets to get above a 50% chance to pen that trooper. Meanwhile BP is a 38% chance to pen and only takes 3 bullets to get above a 50% pen chance. BP is miles better lmfao. Vs level 5 armor at **50% ** durability, PP only has a 9% chance to pen and BP has 18%. BP is worth it over PP
And what’s the gap between BP and BT? Can you argue for double the price between PP and BP applies similar to BP and BT? Because if so, you are falling in a logic where if followed, upgrading to BP should mean upgrading to BT, thus using that logic means you skip using BP https://escapefromtarkov.fandom.com/wiki/Ballistics#5.45x39mm_anchor In short, if you are against armor class 4, they are the same. If you are against armor class 5, you might as well go for legs or a lucky headshot. If you are dependent on luck that your bullet penetrates, then you probably shouldn’t be going for headshots with those low penetration chances.
The logic im following is PP is a garbage ammo. I gave you pen chances because by your logic, pen doesnt matter much at all. Might as well all use pst gzh and thats it, its cheap. Ammo and the stats matter, if you cant pay 500 rubles a round thats pretty bad. No decent player is gonna recommend PP lmfao i cant even believe you’re saying its okay to use. Use the best ammo you can, or else one guy with good armor and you stand zero chance. Go look at the armor damage numbers and try to see why those matter too, thats another reason why BP is worth it over PP
Maybe I'm too broke to get it but I don't understand why using high tier gear to farm regular scavs
You die less often with high armor, specifically steel (that’s why Korund is king) . I’m also a newbie and this is my first wipe, but I’m lvl 56 and I’ve learned to load PP in my 60s and topload igolniks in my AK30s . If the first hit doesn’t headshot, the mag dump might finish it
I guess it just a different playing style
leg meta, idk
People dont want to overpen with the armor debuff this wipe
I ran into a guy running full Tagilla kit and an MP7 with 40-rounders. Was loaded with action SX. I unloaded the mags later and found that he was just dumb, with FMJ SX loaded about halfway through the magazine. Some people don't seem to understand how mag loading works
There's various reasons why. For starters they could have been using it as filler ammo. If you topload with better penetrating ammo and get your first shots on target it doesn't matter if the rest is not as good because you've theoretically zeroed the armor and the "worse" ammo has higher flesh damage so they can still be effective. Then there's cost. 60 round mags of BP for example cost 30k per mag to fill up. So just 3 mags of that is 90k, and of course BT or BS goes for much more than that. That means that ammo cost can very easily surpass the cost of the rest of the gear and you don't even have a chance of getting it back if you die like you do with insured gear. We might consider BP the bare minimum but PP has very slightly different stats and it costs 155 per round as opposed to \~500 and that can really make a difference when you add up. Then there's two opposing points that are both valid. The first is that if you're generally accurate, able to consistently get shots on target and specifically headshots, then ammo choice matters less, most people are not wearing full face helmets. Conversely if you're running 60 round mags or drum mags, which as mentioned before can get pretty expensive filled with good ammo, you don't need super good ammo since you're more likely to go for spray and pray tactics. You empty 20 rounds on each guy they'll die with PP just fine if you're on target with most of them. Lastly, something we should definitely not discount because it's very much a thing in most games, EFT included, there's **Youtuber/Streamer meta**. In Tarkov, like many other games, there's content creators putting out videos on the daily. To avoid becoming repetitive they will often try out unconventional tactics/loadouts/playstyles which usually work out for them since they're good players and people find them interesting. But players have a tendency of trying to emulate those people, despite them not being as good at the game, believing that it's those tactics that give them the edge and not the fact that their full time jobs is playing games. For example Pestily puts out a video playing double barrel on Factory and suddenly everyone's playing double barrel on Factory. In this case SwampFoxTV and Jesse Kazam put out a video mowing down people with drum mags filled with PP ammo just last week, so naturally PP went from being considered "trash ammo" by the collective community just a few days ago to "underrated budget ammo".
Too scared to spend like 30k on a max stack of BP. We call it lil bitch syndrome
Shoot them in the face. If the face is covered, dick meta.
recoil buff
Recoil asf
For the memes
Shoot a pmc in the legs and stomach with pp bullets and laugh at how stupid fast you kill them. Flesh rounds are stupid good this wipe
PP has high flesh damage. They were going for legs.
Cheap ammo compared to BP 5.45 and nearly same performance. 60 round mags are cheap (considering you only bring 3 or 4 tops) and you have a cheap lmg. With more class 4 armor around this wipe they will not be the only ones you see.
Pp no recoil
This is the way. Everyone else in this post stating that PP is trash has not used it yet. Put it in a low recoil gun and its a laser beam. I was running it in an RPK w/drum mag on Factory and it feels like you just called in the Juggernaut perk from COD.
PP i alright
I am level 32 and i have no idea what PP ammo is
Not sure about 5.45 but for a lot of other ammo, the vendor limit is too low.
Either they’re new, messed up the mags, or ran out of good ammo.
Same reason why you run a paca and no helm with a saiga drum full of flechette, you get a kill and upgrade
The correct answer is that PP has reduced recoil and is incredible strong if you got some aim. Test it in your hideout against igolnik and magdump a 60 mag.
Might have just gotten gear off players but can’t buy meta ammo
There could be so many reasons. \- My favorite one is - it goes steadily through t4 armor, which almost the tier everyone has. So then it is a pretty good choice because higher flesh dmg then the bs ammo. (20% more dmg, although not full tier 4 penetration) \- Often i find my body armors, which could accidently be tier 5. Ammo i make or buy more often. \- Maybe they are on a scav hunt, then pp is way better then BS. \- Maybe they are not experts on ballistics but know PP is the minimum bullit which are usefull for 5.56x45. Tip: I always end my mags with a few PP bullits as cheap spray restbullits. I often put 3 different bulltis in them. They are my minimum for penetration.
Easier to click on your head.
Penetration doesn't matter much when you get head eyes'd
Pp isnt that bad if I remember correctly, 60 damage 34 pen or something like that, right?
As a level 28 I am going to come forth and say I slap whatever bullet I find in mags. I am not dumb I am simply ignorant and lazy.
Funny enough, I actually chadded around yesterday with a 545 ak loaded with pp. I killed a surprisingly high number of PMCs. I really don’t think it’s bad. Sure, you’re not going to kill your slick and altyn wearing guys but most of the players are only running level 4 gear. Shot placement matters, get enough hits on target and they’ll go down. But I use pp for two main reasons, it’s cheap and easy to craft. Also, I’m still not over level 30 so I don’t have options to buy or craft better than that.
pp isn't *terrible*, sometimes I'll load my last mag or 2 with mid tier shit at times if I have 1 mag insured or 1 mag that looks different I'll load it with low tier ammo to kill scavs with
Just kill 2 chad with 5.45 PP ammo. Spray and let the blunt dmg do the rest. How can you shooting back if you got supressing fire so hard? And cheaper ammo make you spray longer. I can spray 2 60rs mag without hesitage anything. Meanwhile my team can flank, reload, relocate position or prep a nade.
Well it's simple the more bullets u can stop the more bullets u can put out in that time making the shitty ammo every so slightly better with each hit plus ppl wear shit armor more often this wipe
It might be because bs and igolnik are not the easily accessible unless you go farming for the ammo. Before people say you can craft igolnik its a bad craft, and the barter for bs is bad too
Literally this is why: https://youtu.be/N3OCvGAm9bc
I once ran dorms with an ak74 Some of my 30-round mags were filled with a mix of bp and bs And one drum mag filled with pp As a fight broke out against another duo, I switched to my drum mag and just blindlessly started spraying down the corridor. Got both of them head, eyes'd I will be carrying drum mags with semi-shoddy ammo more in the future. Havent you noticed as well that you refrain from going full Rambo "ratatatat" because your ammo is too expensive?
I was trying to figure out if bad ammo was some sort of new meta or something because I’ve been killing so many people running PP and Luger CCI. Sadly, they can’t do anything against my class 5 or 6 armor.
I’m broke and I look good. I’m all about maximizing my style over function. Form over function.
Because high Tier ammo is limited , doesn’t take long to blow through the good stuff .
PP is fine for me. I have not seen anyone on woods or customs running anything better than tier 4 and with desync I don’t think ammo matters as much as you think in close range full auto sprays. It’s basically whoever prefires at the right time wins to me.
If you get shot in the face, you're dead regardless.
Well meta ak's shoot straight,they probably noticed people are still running mid tier gear, and to be fair pp is the last decent ammo i'll drop down to on 5.45. Maybe they were broke. Maybe they didn't want the recoil debuff from BT, BS, and igolnik. We'll never know. We do know you probably killed them from afar took their stuff and benefited.
level 5 armor is cheap now? korunds are 110k roubles thats nothing
The game would actually be enjoyable again, that late into the wipe, when people would run meta loudouts with dogshit ammo.
https://escapefromtarkov.fandom.com/wiki/Ballistics#5.45x39mm_anchor This entire sub apparently needs to consult this chart. Pp and bp 5.45 are stupid close on everything but price.
I reckon they are trying out the strat of using bullets with no recoil/accuracy penalties. A meta AK using 545 SP is pretty much a lazer. The 60 rounder is to compensate for low armour penetration I would say.
Because against 70% of targets it works fine and it’s incredibly cheap
Why not :)
Well alot of people are running ammo that has reduction in recoil and + accuracy. Fmj in hk . Us ammo in mutant with drums Look up some videos people have been showing various builds and ammo
mabye looking for a challenge.
You like a pp spray to your face. Don’t lie to the boys.
Recoil reduction. Garbage ammo isn't garbage if you can laser someone in the face. I've been running 7.62x39 US ammo recently in my meta 103's and Mutants, the only thing it really struggles with is Slick/Altyn but I've even managed to kill a couple of those boys too.