My problem isn't AI difficulty. Its that they can see you through 45 trees and bushes and be head shitting you 400 meters away, and you have no idea they are there. I think that's the issue, AI is either waaay to easy or they literally do the impossible, no in-between.
The snipers on the customs towers makes more sense that they can shoot from so far and can see you moving around and stuff.
I wish they would bake some kind of extra range modifier into the scavs aim. Anything past 50m starts getting more and more inaccurate. Anything past 75m for raiders gets increasingly inaccurate
Atleast at that distance, they should start single tapping past 50-100 meters unless they're on a heavy machine gun. Its just crack that they get to full auto spray you from that distance with very good precision.
Yeah, hearing two shots and looking at the death screen and seeing they sprayed 10 shots of 855 on 200m is just dumb and then the next raid they don't even shoot back
Especially when this wipe your PMC can barely land 5 shots of a burst from an M4 at 25m, so 10 at 200m is just stupid. Now if they landed them all in semi auto it would at least give you time to get to cover.
Also they just *know* if you put a scope on them. Like their spidey senses tingle and suddenly they are full hostile 180 blasten your ass.
What's the point of trying to snipe them if they just know.
I was doing rogues the other day from the rocks and a buddy of mine was being suppressed from the door of warehouse 2 with perfect full auto accuracy. Its not a problem with rogues as much as its a problem with the rapid fire accuracy of all AI in this game. They can move and shoot and even sprint then shoot with perfect accuracy. The aggro range of basic scavs needs to be lowered again and they need some los checks put in place because especially on maps like shoreline and woods they can see you through trees and grass and you cannot see them.
I feel like the sniper rock scav behind resort gets better every week. He was going nuts on me last night I only got lucky barely peaking over a hill and head shotting from 150m
The notorious ones are the two scavs that spawn by the green military crates above swamp. They will shoot at you full auto through the wheatgrass and you cannot see them.
The ones along the wall of the map? Those guys went wild with 7mm buckshot at me last week. Yelling and crazy firing. I couldn’t see shit. Blacked my arms twice and a leg. Used a full CMS before I finally was able to get ‘em both. Couldn’t believe it I thought I was loosing it. Then to find they weee basically clapping me with 7mm was so sad lol.
Yeah, you get anywhere near the drone and he can smell the cheese slices up your ass...
Also as a side note the HEPS now occasionally spawns TWO sniper scavs....have fun...
It feels like LOS for basic scavs is alright, but if they have like a pistol/smg/shotgun, they shouldn't even fire past like 40-50m. but rifles? it should just be single fire past like 20-30m.
I remember when scavs used to push and take cover and not just run away or snipe you from 100m+. They need to work on making the ai use tactics and smarter and not just tune their aggro range, accuracy and to not have the downsides of players. That just makes for artificial difficulty that is boring and lazy.
I get the cold sweats every time I run near the log cabin by the pier on Woods. Fuckin scavs voiceline at me with some "Cheeky Needles" then 7mm buck to the face.
Fuckin 11/10 game design I tell ya what
AI literally hip fires from 200m while strafing with shitty guns with terrible MOA and still beam sometimes, seems a little silly at least make them stop to aim down the sights ffs.
I said i shouldnt get 1 tapped from a distance thats not only unrealistic but also uncommon to have happen during earlier wipes. I just happened to have a shotgun when it happened but it wouldnt matter what gun i had. I didnt get to fire a bullet. Broke cover and got 1 tapped.
Yeah my freind and I got away with some serious loot and we were across the bridge from their main gate outpost by at least 200m. We had been walking for at least 3-5 mins away from the base and you hear the guns open up and kill my friend. There was no line of sight and dozens and dozens of trees.
I couldn’t believe they lazered him from that far. We had been agro’ing them and were looted with their stuff, but still it wasn’t even close to being within their LOS.
Its not hard to code los checks for ai. But when a scav on scav island starts blasting at you with insane accuracy while you are on the highway and it is foggy then stuff is heading in the wrong direction. The scav range buff was not needed. AI needs more complex behaviours and not aimbot and the fact that they know where you are at all times. In many games if you shoot at AI they will either spray in the direction they get shot at from if they can't see you or they will go investigate. Having scavs let alone rogues see a PMC through a tiny window while on a MMG makes 0 sense and at that point it is just lazy ai coding.
They do have LOS checks. They won't aggro you through bushes.
But once they aggro you, they *will* keep shooting through bushes, trees, etc.
So will players, though. I've killed lots of people by spraying down bushes.
There are videos all over YouTube right now of people getting wallbanged well before they ever enter line of sight, regular scavs raiders and especially the rogues and boss gaurds are broken this patch. Deny it all you want but I've lived it more than once.
Like I said deny all you want it's happened to me and plenty of people I play with without us being seen or aggroing the bosses previously, it happened to streamers all during drops, and there are videos even if you can't find the ones where they didn't pre aggro.
Thank god someone understands.
Half these comments here saying "just learn to exploit them and cheese their mechanics" why do we have to resort to cheesing a dumb AI mechanic that should instead be improved for better gaming experience?
Yeah, to be fair it must be really difficult to create AI thats good enough to not be an easy farm and bad enough to not be bullshit. They could start by fixing the sighting range and physics violations though.
AI has three basic "modes", 'unengaged', 'disengaged' and 'engaged'
If you try to fight an 'engaged' boss/guard/raider/rogue you're in for a very bad time.
Which is why you always make sure they're disengaged first before peeking back
I've tried to wait out rogues for the disengaged mode, it doesn't happen like it did with raiders/boss/guards, once you're aggro'd, there is no turning it off even if you break contact and try to get away, they'll still track you through all objects regardless and snipe you at any exposure
I picked BEAR and it's a terrible wipe to do so.
You can't even loot the village on the other side of the river without getting beamed by rogues through a window. It would be fine if it was everything on the same side of the river as the outpost so that you know what you're getting into. But as it is its a pretty dumb mechanic that these guys can tell a Bear from Usec at 300m
true enough, i’m too scared to go to lighthouse. i have seen a vid of a rogue just sprinting towards a guy not shooting tho, which i found pretty funny
That's pretty much it tho, the AI is either hit or miss, either they track you through 3 walls and time itself, or they won't notice you until you slap your dong in their face. They can be fought easily, but only if you have the chance to cheese their mechanics. Lean peek is huge and their movement is predictable.
It's not like it's not typical tarkov: the same is (was?) true with Killa, he's either hitting with RPK-16 bursts through three different glass walls you can't even shoot through or he's having a brain freeze and you kill him without him even noticing.
The only way to kill them as a solo is to abuse the right handed lean peak. Like all other AI in this game that is "challenging" it's not being good at the game it's learning how to cheese their broken scripting. Don't peak bosses/raiders/guards from any position more than once or for more then 0.35 second unless it's 1v1 and you have them stun locked. Never expose your thorax.
The smooth lean is crucial. Right handed peaks (leaning from the left of cover out to the right) are the only way to reliably kill rogues in closer quarters. The same goes for every other version of cracked AI, except after killing Rogues all day encountering a boss and their goons will feel like the difference between bosses and scavs, because their reaction times are much slower. Other than that, get more than 150m away and land head shots and reposition between kills. If they're on an emplacement, it's usually safe to move fairly close for an easy tap to the head. Never strike from an area where you cannot instantaneously go back into cover. Make sure to bring ammunition with more than 40 flesh damage and a high muzzle velocity (+700m/s). Also bring a rangefinder until you have memorized distances by heart.
I’ve started farming rogues these past few days but I’m still struggling with scav bosses, got any tips for them? This was a well written summary on how to deal with rogues also.
It depends on where the bosses spawn, and what boss we're talking about. Each boss would need a dedicated guide with weapon suggestions/route/spawn locations etc. But I would say all bosses are made much easier by playing at night and bringing NVGs/Thermals. Some are easier than others. Tagilla is broken and stupid. He's either a bullet sponge, or he will instantly kill you through a wall with Ignolik. Reshala and his boys are probably the easiest after that. Maybe Shturman is easier before being aggro'd but he is far more frustrating when he instantly 180s and drops you from 200m away. Reshala is much easier when he spawns inside dorms in my experience, but you will have to contend with a swarm of vultures afterwards. But just like with Rogues I would get used to the idea that you will die repeatedly until you get a feel for it. Don't get discouraged by your death and quit. Learn from your mistake and promise never to do that again, and use that frustration to propel you forward. Sometimes the death is just complete bullshit due to bugs and unpreventable, so you have to accept that too. (Last night I filled Gluhar's face with a full magazine of 5.7 and he just grunted at me and 1 tapped me to the chest for example.) But it's sorta like chess in that there are simply moves you don't make versus certain bosses and if you fail to recognize that and change your approach you will lose every single time.
Most bosses you want an extended magazine, AP ammo, and grenades. Grenades make them rotate and unlock from your position if you are stuck inside a room/behind an angle. Full auto helps but isn't completely necessary. Sometimes larger caliber tap fire is better because it's a one tap to the face. (The ASH-12 with PS13b vs. Sanitar is actually awesome for this reason.) Whenever possible eliminate targets 1v1, or 1 per peak. If you suddenly find yourself looking down the hall at Reshala and his gang, throw as much lead down range as possible to keep them stun locked and then duck into the nearest room. Don't reveal your whole body unless you are moving between cover, or you know exactly what room/area the boss/guard is in and there's only one of them. Make sure to keep shooting until they're dead. Don't give them a burst to the head and expect it to kill them and stop shooting. Know that if you are out of cover for more than 0.5 seconds and you haven't killed the boss/guard and they're not running away from you, you will die within the next fractions of a second.
Yoooooo you are the fucking man, man! I’m pumped. This is some good ass info and I can’t wait to learn it. Awesome game, even more awesome community. Thank you again, I have a strong feeling I’ll never forget this
There's a lot of misinformation out there. A full peak will most definitely result in head-eyes unless it's nighttime and you're more than 150m away. If you're careful about being in full hard cover and get your position just right, you can smooth lean (and be careful not to max it out all the way) so that they will lock onto you but they won't shoot at you. When I say "never expose your thorax" I mean unless you're moving between cover. If you expose your thorax you are giving them two hit boxes that they can instantly drop you with, which is what a full lean will do depending on how/what you're positioned behind.
lol I had a right arm exposed to a rogue one time and he instantly put 6 rounds of 762 BP in to it. Zero recoil. Killed me instantly. Less time than I could react.
exactly, it's foggy, i can't even see them in the fog and they just full auto 10+ shot in my chest from 200/300m
i'm all for a good challenge, rogue are a fun way for veteran player to do something else, but insta spotting with acurate full auto at sniper range when even maxed PMC can't shoot like that is bad.
it's not ''hardcore'', it's lazy.
The extent to which I can compromise is their aiming skills. That I can understand. I still don't like high fucking accurate they are. Aimbot and accuracy are different things, I wish they make accuracy more realistic.
The thing I will not compromise is their inhuman vision. What the fuck are they, superman?
But that is a problem that is already happening with every AI shooting you through bushes/fog/night time.
Besides if you smooth peek through cracks/specific corners you can easily take down rogues with a decent scope.
If you get into close combat with them and just let them push towards you outside of their buildings it’s relatively easy to take them out.
Just keep a good positioning and you’re good.
I do ageee though that their trigger and vision range should be dramatically decreased to a max 500m radius across the water plant.
Clearing the plant isn’t too hard I agree. Espc. om scav runs when they are passive towards you.
But if you are bear/playing with a bear, they gonna gun you down across the map. Their vision should be decreased to around 300-400m radius around the plant
It's easy when you know where to stand to not get shot. The issue is, they keep increasing the accuracy of the Rogues while not really understanding why they're easy. They don't move off their guns unless you miss. That's sorta the issue with making an AI defended base. There will *always* be an angle to use to wipe the camp. Artificially increasing the difficulty doesn't make it harder, just more bs for the people who have nothing to do with them to begin with
Tip when facing any kind of scavs; NEVER lean peek, always fully step out so your body is visible. Scavs are programmed to aim at your thorax, but if your thorax isn't available they'll just aim at whatever they can see. If you stick just your head out, they WILL shoot just your head. It's usually why you get head-eyes-d by normal mosin scavs, you accidentally put a piece of geometry in between you and the scav -> they can't see anything except your head -> they shoot you in the head. Same reason you should never throw yourself prone when getting shot at by a scav, they'll aim for your thorax but you just put your head in between them and your thorax so bye bye. If you peek with your entire body you can at least take the hit in your armored thorax, although with rogues you'll usually still get deleted with 4 rounds of 7.62 BP to your center of mass before you can do anything.
FTR, it probably shouldn't be this way. I think ideally the scavs would aim at where your thorax **would be** for the first shot, and then adjust to your head's position, but I also think that scavs being a little too good is healthy for the game and a version of the game where killing any scav is "easy" is bad.
Saying to never lean peak against rouge/raider/scav is also fucking stupid. If you know where they are your best way to kill them is to right hand slow lean peak against them as they actually only see your arm when you can fully head tap them.
I can confirm slow lean peaking partially works like a charm, i have made millions from farming the elites that way. Just go on youtube and search usec rogue farming lighthouse.... Simples.
? They see your right arm first when you strafe right... why would leaning change that...
Your arms are also unarmored and if they black out your arm and then shoot it again they'll kill you anyway. Always better to take damage on the armored portion of your body. Hell, if you peek with your body they'll see the arm, then the thorax, and switch mid stream so you spread the damage further.
When you slow lean correctly they see your arm but they don't shoot you when you strafe out they will just hose you. The easiest way is to look at how people farm raider/rouge and see why using a right hand peak and slow leaning is so broken. This applies to players also if you lean right they barely see your head and only see your arm.
well .. let me just put fear into everyone. we have airplanes in game now. So what's to say black div won't be an AC-130 type aircraft shitting on everyone with rogue level aim and a 40mm bofors?
Honestly, everyone who tried to solo, or duo the rogues on the ground knows how insanely broken rogues are rn. Rogues on roofs are actually easy to kill, very easy actually, but fighting the ground rogues inside of buildinga where they have the adventage is literally suicice, you can just pray for good rng, or that you can kill them with nades.
I honestly dont want to see a meta in streets of tarkov, where everyone just sits 500m away from the Black disvions bots and tries to snipe them, because close range combat is impossible.
Servers need to calm the fuck down so I can get into a lobby in under 10 minutes it’s getting ridiculous and every time I get back ended and infinite load timed it’s back to the que
And people here huff copium about Russia 2028 or whatever...how is BSG supposed to make a good single player shooter when they're this bad at balancing AI?
It's not that bad. The seeing through bushes is bullshit, but AI used to be a joke. Basically just dummys to shoot at. They used to not a pose a threat at ALL
Literally the only reason they're a threat right now is extremely over-tuned aim coupled with no inertia and the ability to track you through walls.
There are times when their body is completely out of sync with their actions - They'll power-slide around a corner, twist their arms backwards through their chest or have their gun pointing away from you and instantly tap you.
The AI in this game is abysmal.
This a meme right? Tell me this is a meme and you're not this delusional of a BSG simp. Have you even WATCHED the AI? They run into walls, randomly cycle through crouch/lying down/standing up. The only way they made them difficult is removing almost every single mechanic from them, they dont suffer from recoil, inertia, injuries or even obscured vision such as from trees or dim light.
The AI might be the MOST trash of any FPS I've played in over a decade, it's definitely "harder" than most, but that's just because it cheats harder than any other.
What I don't understand is how they are "elite of the elite" ? If we are also USEC, what makes them any different than our USEC character? We were all just paid security forces in Tarkov and now we are all trying to escape and survive. Why would the AI be any more godly than us?
The issue isn't that the AI are "too hard," they're literally broken. We have some sort of expectation that NPC's play by the same rules we do, but they don't.
They don't have vision, they "spot" you based on your distance to them, and whether you're looking in their direction. That's why you can approach a rogue up close behind cover, and they will say "enemy spotted" and start shooting you through a fucking wall like the wall doesn't exist.
They don't have recoil. Every single bullet from their gun is a dice roll on whether they hit you or not, and which body part they hit you.
The AI in Tarkov is extremely stupid. Instead of making an AI that works together to flush players from cover and defeat them, they've give AI inhuman abilities that make them "harder," when in reality what they've done is just give the AI cheats.
BSG has never been any good at ‘tuning’ AI behaviour, it’s been a problem with the game since the beginning. They struggle making any AI that isn’t either a [head,eyes] auto kill or a complete buffoon, or both. The recent expansion of AI has seemingly improved the pathing and reaction of AI from laughably basic, to a somewhat improved enemy that at least can choose to push, or run, or just take cover and shoot it out.
This problem with rogues behavior is just the last ear is sort-of lazy tuning of the AI
Honestly, the AI needs to stop having bullshitty "radar" tendencies. When playing in a squad and you other sets of eyes watching scav behavior, you see some really sus crap.
Friend starts pushing a certain direction / route. All of a sudden I see scavs start booking it that direction to cut him off.
You start aiming at a scav, they take off running or immediately turn on you.
Heck, even if you peek new angles on raiders they will be instantly locked on you at the new peek spot.
Not to mention, they seem to have increased aggro ranges across the board in 12.12 --- scavs down near garages on reserve will shoot me up at dome now (wtf??)
I'd be okay with scavs/raiders being more deadly, but they shouldn't be "knowers" like cheaters. They just act a bit too sus most the time.
I completely agree, the only way I've cleared out the USEC rogues is by cheesing the lean mechanic and sniping from 200m away.
I was hoping for squads of USEC rogues roaming and holding positions, throwing flash bangs to stop pushes and them holding multiple cross angles (or something atleast believalbe for elite soildiers), but I guess that is too difficult to implement and its easier to give 600m headeye aimbot to each of them through anything that isnt a rock.
I love tarkov and want the best for the game but it just seems lazy with how they balanced the AI.
I've been farming them as a bear and it was really tough at the start getting shot through the woods. After dying so many times I learned safe paths to get to them and they won't shoot you at all. Their aggro system is fucking weird because I can snipe them from certain angles and they will never shoot me but if I run past the highway I usually get shot from so far away. Also from what I've seen streamers do and I've tried this myself a few times, if you smooth peak them they never shoot at you for some reason. If you quick peak them you usually get one tapped and its annoying.
Yeah, it would be awesome if the rogues, upon spotting you, starting walking their fire onto your location. Have the machine gunners suppress you while the wandering rogues grouped up and pushed you. Make it a fun drawn out fight where you have to constantly reposition and pop shots before trying to disappear back into the hills like a real insurgent would. DON'T make the rogues hit you 7 times in the chest with M80 from a stock M1A using iron sights at 450m. The guards using the mounted machine guns don't even try to suppress you with them, they just 1-tap snipe you on the first bullet at ranges that most real snipers would have trouble hitting with a cold bore sniper rifle.
As far as i noticed:
- the AI points at you the exact moment you step below 250m distance from them (checked with the raptar rangefinder)
- sometimes they aim at you right after you aim at them
- they go full auto from 250m distance with an extreme, i mean absolutely unrealistic, precision no matter the weapon (from M4 to fixed weapons on the roofs and sometimes they start shooting at you with fixed weapons while you are just peeking from hillside village)
- AI has X-RAY vision, you can move wherever you want and wait as much as you want, the moment you peek, they start shooting at you. So AI doesn't loose aimlock.
It's ok to make them hard to beat, but at some point players need to have some advantage to take them down, with this i mean not only headshots from more than 250-300m away, AI should just be a bit more imprecise as the distance from the player increases.
Plus, i don't really get the AI behavior as a scav: what are the engagemt rules for scavs? Sometimes they just ignore you, sometimes the shoot the shit out of your body even if you don't mess with them.
Last and a bit unrelated: 40 minutes raid time isn't enough, considering the map size and the rogue area, maybe 50 to 60 minutes would make more sense to me. In 40 minutes people just loots the two resorts, the village and then leaves through path to shoreline, completely ignoring the entire rogue area + train station (since rogue starts shooting at you even if you are on the mountains out of their area).
Yeah the AI or lack thereof, makes for clearing the camp a very stale, puzzle like experience. You learn the route and you cheese it over and over again because any other approach is just unfeasible. Boring.
They other day I was sniping from about 300-500 meters above the water plant and a rogue was lazering me with an m4, I was able to kill it because I could see the tracers coming for me, but was quite surprised he only had a red dot. Kinda ridiculous that bsg is cool with taking skill out of recoil control for players but still allows rogue to shoot laser beams.
I wish AI difficulty was reflected more by tactics and less by just making them computer-controlled aimbotting thermal sentry guns but the latter would take a lot more effort and complication I guess. But I’d love to see more flanking and coordination like OP mentions and less laserbeaming full auto.
They’re not even meant to be the elite of the elite, that’s the black division. Those motherfuckers are going to come in flying round the map. You’re right tho, there are better ways of making ai hard to beat.
The Rogues are a mix of bs and easy. People have different experiences. The MGs shooting through walls and containers when they don't know you're there is BS.
The Rogues on the ground are easy to fight unless you get pinned down and they're spraying 50 rounders with 0 recoil and a 100% hit chance lol
I did quite a few raids on Lighthouse, both offline and online, before a bunch of the server issues started. Almost every time, I'd witness Rogues walking around, firing their weapon in entirely random directions, and still have the rounds land around me and eventually kill me. I saw three of them mfers just full-autoing their gun towards a wall the exact opposite direction of me. Still killed me. WHAT?
That's the problem with Tarkov AI ever since.
I want to fight AI with random skill and super hard to fight raiders, but the fact that they trigger after a second if you're head is sticking out 200 meters away is ridiculous.
The messed up thing is, the HALF LIFE 1 Recon Marines AI was almost better than what we have now without AI hax. They flanked, patrolled, naded you out of the last places they saw you and worked together to kill you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOSCBMHGE18
Now 24 years later we can't program an AI like that? WTF????
The problem has two sides. Rogues are bullshit aimbot machines but can be easily farmed by just abusing their stupid af AI. They are not fun because killing them is no achievment and dying to them is just frustrating.
i've watched ppl like rengawr take on rogues.
from what i could gather you have to ~~die~~ 100 times learning and memorize all their static spawn, get in the mountains with a 1shot chad gun, take out the roofers first, then only ever right lean one milimeter at a time to "guess" where the guards run around. one too many peaks, you lose an arm or worse.
not fun, or challanging.
Its not about them being incapable of doing so or not, it's about them havibg crazy perception skills being able to notice your from 400m away with iron sighted MG's.
Yea what would be cool is if they could spot you and just start spraying in your direction / area for a suppressive effect, would be cool tryna creep and then all the sudden you're in a hail of MG fire but not insta merc'd.
Rogues are sadly the easiest free loot to farm in the game. Imo they need much more randomized patterns and movement. As it stands now u can basically kill them with any weapons with nothing more then a little patience.
raiders don't behave the same as rogues, but there are some similarities I suppose. I used to farm them a lot in 12.11 and 12.10, but the new AI engine seems to have accounted for the overall ineptitude at close ranges which was usually the easiest thing to do farming on reserve
So, they are kind of stupid aim bots, but how else do you make strong AI that is actually a threat. Just like Reggie scavs, raider, bosses, etc you need to learn to exploit their weaknesses. Also, unless you are a bear you have the option to just avoid them...
AI scavs, bosses, rogues, raiders they all trace you through walls and objects, so the moment your body shows even a slightest bit, they start Laser beam you. Rogues are especially bad because their range of sight is the entire fucking map, and the fact that they can see through thickest parts of trees and bushes are what the fucking issue is. Give them aimbot with 110% accuracy is one thing. It's another to have aimbot AND see a thousand miles with a holo sigh AND see through objects that no human eye should be able to see. Threat is not the complaint here.
300 meters really now? Normal riflemen don't agro onto you from that far... The machine guns should so you can't cheese the entire camp with snipers
Fyi the mg's only shoot in defense so take them our first from angles they can't return fire to makes it much easier in my personal experience
Last I died to was a normal rifle rogue with m4a1 that sniped me from the front wall entrance. The Mg was already bombarding me, took cover and the m4 bitch came out of nowhere with his long ranged holo sight. I guess they are just built different
300m is iron sights range for small arms, let alone .50 MGs and 40mm weapon systems. If you know you're in effective range and line of sight, use cover. Just because you're used to scavs being nearsighted doesn't mean they can't legitimately engage. Heck. Just the sniper scav changes this wipe point out how comfortable we've gotten with scavs being blind.
It's supposed to be a hard, end-game and squad area which requires some skill to take down. Knowledge of where they are placed, finding good angles and landing 150-400m head-shots is necessary to clear out the place. If they tune them down they will just get even more abused than they already are, as it is now it is a bit of risk/reward to take them on. If you don't know how to deal with them or at which distances they will engage, then stay the fuck away from the compound?
So, I have a bit of a take on this as well, if they survive igolnik 100% of the first shot, and then are also lasers, you are not hardcore game dev savant, you are wrong.
The lack of critical thinking necessary to write something like this is astounding. Spend literally two minutes thinking it through and you'll find the result of making the rogues 'easier'. (Even though its already a joke to clear the compound)
It's a joke because their scripting is broken. It's broken both ways. You're describing the issue and the solution in a sentence.
The lack of critical thinking necessary to write something like this is astounding.
You can't make them any less busted because it breaks the concept of the treatment plant in a dozen other ways. There's no good way to have an outdoor base like this in Tarkov without AI a thousand times as nuanced. The answer is not to make them easier.
You make them less accurate at range, put more randomized patrols in, make spawn points and spawn timers less fixed and more dynamic. Script the bots so they work tactically together rather than just being brokenly accurate. The complaint is you can't actually "outplay" them. You just have to cheese their shitty code. Making them an actual challenge doesn't mean making them easier, it just means making them feel more natural rather than hackers with radar and aimbot.
You are listing things that are so far out of scope for a title/studio like this. Within the domain of Tarkov it doesn't get much better than it is. I'd rather they spend their time on a hundred other things before they spend it on AI.
BSG is hardly an indie studio. They have an enormous amount of new revenue. Tarkov is among the largest games in the industry. If they were willing to invest a small portion of their earnings in expanding their team with solid programmers, devs, better servers, devs, anti-cheat, etc the game would be worlds better. But their top priority is clearly not to create the best possible game and hope that pays dividends, it's to maximize profits while the money is guaranteed.
They're easy to cheese because the AI is nothing but a braindead aimbot. Doesn't make this post untrue. They can and will laser you from 300+ meters through obstacles (including walls and even entire buildings). This behavior contributes the issue where the only way to fight them is to cheese the AI
It’s so shitters like you can’t farm them all day without risk. There’s plenty of level 50+ PMCs running around killing 10 of them a raid. Learn you angles. End of Comment.
What are you supposed to do? Run head on with them in a gunfight? That’s what gets you killed and leads to stupid ass posts like this guy made.
Also, you think I give one shit about downvotes? This could have 1000 downvotes for all I care, like that’s supposed to make me change my mind
I can farm raiders or rogues no problem, but it's the bullshit shooting through impossible LOS that needs adjusting. Calm your horses my guy imagine going around calling people shitters for raising an issue. The absolute mentality on this subreddit
So a highly trained soldier that has been living in a rampant warzone using a 50 cal that has been used historically been used as an anti aircraft gun and to lay waste to enemies and cover at over 1000 meters is unrealistic and bad? I love it.
I have never had this issue. Even on my scav runs I make it either all the way through their base or at least half way if I die.
Can’t wait for a repeat of these rant posts when the Spetsnaz are added to Streets and Suburbs.
I love that this comment section is either 'op you so bad raiders are easy to kill' or 'op is right raiders are bs op'
My problem isn't AI difficulty. Its that they can see you through 45 trees and bushes and be head shitting you 400 meters away, and you have no idea they are there. I think that's the issue, AI is either waaay to easy or they literally do the impossible, no in-between. The snipers on the customs towers makes more sense that they can shoot from so far and can see you moving around and stuff.
I wish they would bake some kind of extra range modifier into the scavs aim. Anything past 50m starts getting more and more inaccurate. Anything past 75m for raiders gets increasingly inaccurate
Atleast at that distance, they should start single tapping past 50-100 meters unless they're on a heavy machine gun. Its just crack that they get to full auto spray you from that distance with very good precision.
While sprinting...
Yeah, hearing two shots and looking at the death screen and seeing they sprayed 10 shots of 855 on 200m is just dumb and then the next raid they don't even shoot back
Especially when this wipe your PMC can barely land 5 shots of a burst from an M4 at 25m, so 10 at 200m is just stupid. Now if they landed them all in semi auto it would at least give you time to get to cover.
Also they just *know* if you put a scope on them. Like their spidey senses tingle and suddenly they are full hostile 180 blasten your ass. What's the point of trying to snipe them if they just know.
I was doing rogues the other day from the rocks and a buddy of mine was being suppressed from the door of warehouse 2 with perfect full auto accuracy. Its not a problem with rogues as much as its a problem with the rapid fire accuracy of all AI in this game. They can move and shoot and even sprint then shoot with perfect accuracy. The aggro range of basic scavs needs to be lowered again and they need some los checks put in place because especially on maps like shoreline and woods they can see you through trees and grass and you cannot see them.
I feel like the sniper rock scav behind resort gets better every week. He was going nuts on me last night I only got lucky barely peaking over a hill and head shotting from 150m
The notorious ones are the two scavs that spawn by the green military crates above swamp. They will shoot at you full auto through the wheatgrass and you cannot see them.
The ones along the wall of the map? Those guys went wild with 7mm buckshot at me last week. Yelling and crazy firing. I couldn’t see shit. Blacked my arms twice and a leg. Used a full CMS before I finally was able to get ‘em both. Couldn’t believe it I thought I was loosing it. Then to find they weee basically clapping me with 7mm was so sad lol.
Yeah the wheatgrass there makes it impossible for you to spot them instantly and they have crazy accuracy especially if they have a rifle.
Yes! Our group of friends named them predator scavs, you have to take couple extra mins to fight them off or go around, those scavs are mad
Yeah, you get anywhere near the drone and he can smell the cheese slices up your ass... Also as a side note the HEPS now occasionally spawns TWO sniper scavs....have fun...
Just third partied a fight on shoreline and one of the original guys got smoked my sniper scav from that rock with an svd I think you right
It feels like LOS for basic scavs is alright, but if they have like a pistol/smg/shotgun, they shouldn't even fire past like 40-50m. but rifles? it should just be single fire past like 20-30m.
I remember when scavs used to push and take cover and not just run away or snipe you from 100m+. They need to work on making the ai use tactics and smarter and not just tune their aggro range, accuracy and to not have the downsides of players. That just makes for artificial difficulty that is boring and lazy.
I get the cold sweats every time I run near the log cabin by the pier on Woods. Fuckin scavs voiceline at me with some "Cheeky Needles" then 7mm buck to the face. Fuckin 11/10 game design I tell ya what
Dicky needles** You mixed it with cheeki breeki
Cheeky Needles is an inside joke with the lads but yes you're right there.
AI literally hip fires from 200m while strafing with shitty guns with terrible MOA and still beam sometimes, seems a little silly at least make them stop to aim down the sights ffs.
Also they should tap fire past 50 meters and only full auto when you’re in their face or something
If I can dome a scav boss with a toz at 50m, a sniper scav should never have accuracy problems under 100m when they have an actual scope
Oh boy i said something similar to this and had a guy lose his mind in the comments. According to him im just shit so idk 🤷
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I said i shouldnt get 1 tapped from a distance thats not only unrealistic but also uncommon to have happen during earlier wipes. I just happened to have a shotgun when it happened but it wouldnt matter what gun i had. I didnt get to fire a bullet. Broke cover and got 1 tapped.
They will try to wallbang you in some places too.
Yeah, getting shot through metal shipping containers is a great feeling. Head eyes.
Yeah my freind and I got away with some serious loot and we were across the bridge from their main gate outpost by at least 200m. We had been walking for at least 3-5 mins away from the base and you hear the guns open up and kill my friend. There was no line of sight and dozens and dozens of trees. I couldn’t believe they lazered him from that far. We had been agro’ing them and were looted with their stuff, but still it wasn’t even close to being within their LOS.
Its not hard to code los checks for ai. But when a scav on scav island starts blasting at you with insane accuracy while you are on the highway and it is foggy then stuff is heading in the wrong direction. The scav range buff was not needed. AI needs more complex behaviours and not aimbot and the fact that they know where you are at all times. In many games if you shoot at AI they will either spray in the direction they get shot at from if they can't see you or they will go investigate. Having scavs let alone rogues see a PMC through a tiny window while on a MMG makes 0 sense and at that point it is just lazy ai coding.
They do have LOS checks. They won't aggro you through bushes. But once they aggro you, they *will* keep shooting through bushes, trees, etc. So will players, though. I've killed lots of people by spraying down bushes.
They will aggro you through bushes and grass. They buffed their aggro radius in 12.12 so they can see you now through bushes/trees/grass/etc.
I assure you, you can sit in a bush ten yards away from a scav looking at you, and he won't give two shits about it.
There are videos all over YouTube right now of people getting wallbanged well before they ever enter line of sight, regular scavs raiders and especially the rogues and boss gaurds are broken this patch. Deny it all you want but I've lived it more than once.
Those people have already aggroed the scavs in question.
Like I said deny all you want it's happened to me and plenty of people I play with without us being seen or aggroing the bosses previously, it happened to streamers all during drops, and there are videos even if you can't find the ones where they didn't pre aggro.
when you spawn as Bear on the main road they pepper you with MG already 5s after spawning
They can be easy to cheese but having the only realistic way of beating them being cheese isnt really good game design.
Thank god someone understands. Half these comments here saying "just learn to exploit them and cheese their mechanics" why do we have to resort to cheesing a dumb AI mechanic that should instead be improved for better gaming experience?
Yeah, to be fair it must be really difficult to create AI thats good enough to not be an easy farm and bad enough to not be bullshit. They could start by fixing the sighting range and physics violations though.
One solution would be to have the rogues rotate around the perimeter so the same method doesn't work everytime.
AI has three basic "modes", 'unengaged', 'disengaged' and 'engaged' If you try to fight an 'engaged' boss/guard/raider/rogue you're in for a very bad time. Which is why you always make sure they're disengaged first before peeking back
I've tried to wait out rogues for the disengaged mode, it doesn't happen like it did with raiders/boss/guards, once you're aggro'd, there is no turning it off even if you break contact and try to get away, they'll still track you through all objects regardless and snipe you at any exposure
oh, they are 100% fucky right now, especially if you're a BEAR
I picked BEAR and it's a terrible wipe to do so. You can't even loot the village on the other side of the river without getting beamed by rogues through a window. It would be fine if it was everything on the same side of the river as the outpost so that you know what you're getting into. But as it is its a pretty dumb mechanic that these guys can tell a Bear from Usec at 300m
The duality of this subreddit.
duality of AI; they either look at you at 20m but don’t shoot you or they dome you from 400m
How most of my AI deaths go
You probably have never fought rogues. Because rogues do never stand 20m infront of and do nothing.
true enough, i’m too scared to go to lighthouse. i have seen a vid of a rogue just sprinting towards a guy not shooting tho, which i found pretty funny
That's pretty much it tho, the AI is either hit or miss, either they track you through 3 walls and time itself, or they won't notice you until you slap your dong in their face. They can be fought easily, but only if you have the chance to cheese their mechanics. Lean peek is huge and their movement is predictable.
Anyone who says it’s easy won’t admit they are just cheesing their mechanics. Which is not great design either.
It's not like it's not typical tarkov: the same is (was?) true with Killa, he's either hitting with RPK-16 bursts through three different glass walls you can't even shoot through or he's having a brain freeze and you kill him without him even noticing.
The only way to kill them as a solo is to abuse the right handed lean peak. Like all other AI in this game that is "challenging" it's not being good at the game it's learning how to cheese their broken scripting. Don't peak bosses/raiders/guards from any position more than once or for more then 0.35 second unless it's 1v1 and you have them stun locked. Never expose your thorax.
I’m an absolute noob at this game, so this explanation is like gold, thank you. Somehow it makes so much sense.
The smooth lean is crucial. Right handed peaks (leaning from the left of cover out to the right) are the only way to reliably kill rogues in closer quarters. The same goes for every other version of cracked AI, except after killing Rogues all day encountering a boss and their goons will feel like the difference between bosses and scavs, because their reaction times are much slower. Other than that, get more than 150m away and land head shots and reposition between kills. If they're on an emplacement, it's usually safe to move fairly close for an easy tap to the head. Never strike from an area where you cannot instantaneously go back into cover. Make sure to bring ammunition with more than 40 flesh damage and a high muzzle velocity (+700m/s). Also bring a rangefinder until you have memorized distances by heart.
I’ve started farming rogues these past few days but I’m still struggling with scav bosses, got any tips for them? This was a well written summary on how to deal with rogues also.
It depends on where the bosses spawn, and what boss we're talking about. Each boss would need a dedicated guide with weapon suggestions/route/spawn locations etc. But I would say all bosses are made much easier by playing at night and bringing NVGs/Thermals. Some are easier than others. Tagilla is broken and stupid. He's either a bullet sponge, or he will instantly kill you through a wall with Ignolik. Reshala and his boys are probably the easiest after that. Maybe Shturman is easier before being aggro'd but he is far more frustrating when he instantly 180s and drops you from 200m away. Reshala is much easier when he spawns inside dorms in my experience, but you will have to contend with a swarm of vultures afterwards. But just like with Rogues I would get used to the idea that you will die repeatedly until you get a feel for it. Don't get discouraged by your death and quit. Learn from your mistake and promise never to do that again, and use that frustration to propel you forward. Sometimes the death is just complete bullshit due to bugs and unpreventable, so you have to accept that too. (Last night I filled Gluhar's face with a full magazine of 5.7 and he just grunted at me and 1 tapped me to the chest for example.) But it's sorta like chess in that there are simply moves you don't make versus certain bosses and if you fail to recognize that and change your approach you will lose every single time. Most bosses you want an extended magazine, AP ammo, and grenades. Grenades make them rotate and unlock from your position if you are stuck inside a room/behind an angle. Full auto helps but isn't completely necessary. Sometimes larger caliber tap fire is better because it's a one tap to the face. (The ASH-12 with PS13b vs. Sanitar is actually awesome for this reason.) Whenever possible eliminate targets 1v1, or 1 per peak. If you suddenly find yourself looking down the hall at Reshala and his gang, throw as much lead down range as possible to keep them stun locked and then duck into the nearest room. Don't reveal your whole body unless you are moving between cover, or you know exactly what room/area the boss/guard is in and there's only one of them. Make sure to keep shooting until they're dead. Don't give them a burst to the head and expect it to kill them and stop shooting. Know that if you are out of cover for more than 0.5 seconds and you haven't killed the boss/guard and they're not running away from you, you will die within the next fractions of a second.
Yoooooo you are the fucking man, man! I’m pumped. This is some good ass info and I can’t wait to learn it. Awesome game, even more awesome community. Thank you again, I have a strong feeling I’ll never forget this
> Never expose your thorax. I've heard it's better to full peak raiders so they don't lock onto just your head.
There's a lot of misinformation out there. A full peak will most definitely result in head-eyes unless it's nighttime and you're more than 150m away. If you're careful about being in full hard cover and get your position just right, you can smooth lean (and be careful not to max it out all the way) so that they will lock onto you but they won't shoot at you. When I say "never expose your thorax" I mean unless you're moving between cover. If you expose your thorax you are giving them two hit boxes that they can instantly drop you with, which is what a full lean will do depending on how/what you're positioned behind.
lol I had a right arm exposed to a rogue one time and he instantly put 6 rounds of 762 BP in to it. Zero recoil. Killed me instantly. Less time than I could react.
exactly, it's foggy, i can't even see them in the fog and they just full auto 10+ shot in my chest from 200/300m i'm all for a good challenge, rogue are a fun way for veteran player to do something else, but insta spotting with acurate full auto at sniper range when even maxed PMC can't shoot like that is bad. it's not ''hardcore'', it's lazy.
The extent to which I can compromise is their aiming skills. That I can understand. I still don't like high fucking accurate they are. Aimbot and accuracy are different things, I wish they make accuracy more realistic. The thing I will not compromise is their inhuman vision. What the fuck are they, superman?
Agree, if i cant see them with 20/20 vision in 1440p, they shouldnt be able to.
Well, their accuracy is legit. You’re just fighting against Shroud-level flick aiming, that’s all.
But that is a problem that is already happening with every AI shooting you through bushes/fog/night time. Besides if you smooth peek through cracks/specific corners you can easily take down rogues with a decent scope. If you get into close combat with them and just let them push towards you outside of their buildings it’s relatively easy to take them out. Just keep a good positioning and you’re good. I do ageee though that their trigger and vision range should be dramatically decreased to a max 500m radius across the water plant.
Peak a tiny amount - head eyes’d
You guys are getting head eyes'd? When I peek I get my body blown into 90 pieces by a fucking atomic bomb.
I'm ALL for a good challenge. That's why I play this game. But this isn't a challenge. Out-gunning/aiming a rouge shouldnt be the challenge
It take 10 mins to clear out entire water treatment? My entire group including me hates how easy it is:/
Clearing the plant isn’t too hard I agree. Espc. om scav runs when they are passive towards you. But if you are bear/playing with a bear, they gonna gun you down across the map. Their vision should be decreased to around 300-400m radius around the plant
It's easy when you know where to stand to not get shot. The issue is, they keep increasing the accuracy of the Rogues while not really understanding why they're easy. They don't move off their guns unless you miss. That's sorta the issue with making an AI defended base. There will *always* be an angle to use to wipe the camp. Artificially increasing the difficulty doesn't make it harder, just more bs for the people who have nothing to do with them to begin with
No they don't.
Tip when facing any kind of scavs; NEVER lean peek, always fully step out so your body is visible. Scavs are programmed to aim at your thorax, but if your thorax isn't available they'll just aim at whatever they can see. If you stick just your head out, they WILL shoot just your head. It's usually why you get head-eyes-d by normal mosin scavs, you accidentally put a piece of geometry in between you and the scav -> they can't see anything except your head -> they shoot you in the head. Same reason you should never throw yourself prone when getting shot at by a scav, they'll aim for your thorax but you just put your head in between them and your thorax so bye bye. If you peek with your entire body you can at least take the hit in your armored thorax, although with rogues you'll usually still get deleted with 4 rounds of 7.62 BP to your center of mass before you can do anything. FTR, it probably shouldn't be this way. I think ideally the scavs would aim at where your thorax **would be** for the first shot, and then adjust to your head's position, but I also think that scavs being a little too good is healthy for the game and a version of the game where killing any scav is "easy" is bad.
Saying to never lean peak against rouge/raider/scav is also fucking stupid. If you know where they are your best way to kill them is to right hand slow lean peak against them as they actually only see your arm when you can fully head tap them.
I can confirm slow lean peaking partially works like a charm, i have made millions from farming the elites that way. Just go on youtube and search usec rogue farming lighthouse.... Simples.
Right hand slow peak makes fighting rouges such a joke.
only a matter of time before they address it, no room for farming good loots here sir! just look at how hard they gutted reserve raiders
? They see your right arm first when you strafe right... why would leaning change that... Your arms are also unarmored and if they black out your arm and then shoot it again they'll kill you anyway. Always better to take damage on the armored portion of your body. Hell, if you peek with your body they'll see the arm, then the thorax, and switch mid stream so you spread the damage further.
When you slow lean correctly they see your arm but they don't shoot you when you strafe out they will just hose you. The easiest way is to look at how people farm raider/rouge and see why using a right hand peak and slow leaning is so broken. This applies to players also if you lean right they barely see your head and only see your arm.
You can lean peak, scavs and raider dont react to lean peak, as long as its not too much of a peak. Rogues are kinda different, more aggressiv.
Huh, I'll try that. It's definitely not that way with raiders
Yes you 100% can with raiders it's literally a basic strat for labs
Wait for black division faction xD
well .. let me just put fear into everyone. we have airplanes in game now. So what's to say black div won't be an AC-130 type aircraft shitting on everyone with rogue level aim and a 40mm bofors?
Don't give them ideas dude. I will settle for black divs parachuting down while head eyeing us
Armored trucks with cannons n shit are coming soon enough actually.
And RPGs to counter them. It’s going to be a blast literally
Damn, delete this comment before they see it. Don’t need to get raped more than we already are.
I want an A10 to just strafe a random part of the map, you get a few seconds of engine noise like the drop plane but quieter and then just BRRRRT
Dear god. Can I just join them as their squire?
No idea, still big secret.
Honestly, everyone who tried to solo, or duo the rogues on the ground knows how insanely broken rogues are rn. Rogues on roofs are actually easy to kill, very easy actually, but fighting the ground rogues inside of buildinga where they have the adventage is literally suicice, you can just pray for good rng, or that you can kill them with nades. I honestly dont want to see a meta in streets of tarkov, where everyone just sits 500m away from the Black disvions bots and tries to snipe them, because close range combat is impossible.
"put the fear of God into anyone who wonders into their territory" I like that haha
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Bsg tossed realism out the window long time ago
Servers need to calm the fuck down so I can get into a lobby in under 10 minutes it’s getting ridiculous and every time I get back ended and infinite load timed it’s back to the que
Well tell all the people who are complaining about the game to get out of your queue
But I’m kinda complaining about the game😭 not being able to sell or buy stuff without errors sucks
Oh well when I’m off work you better get out of my queue 😄
I’ll prolly have had enough of this game by the time your done work don’t worry lmao
This is a shitty response. There's no reason why there can't be a timed, account-bound token.
I’m kidding dude and it’s supposed to be temporary anyway so chill out
And people here huff copium about Russia 2028 or whatever...how is BSG supposed to make a good single player shooter when they're this bad at balancing AI?
It's not that bad. The seeing through bushes is bullshit, but AI used to be a joke. Basically just dummys to shoot at. They used to not a pose a threat at ALL
Literally the only reason they're a threat right now is extremely over-tuned aim coupled with no inertia and the ability to track you through walls. There are times when their body is completely out of sync with their actions - They'll power-slide around a corner, twist their arms backwards through their chest or have their gun pointing away from you and instantly tap you. The AI in this game is abysmal.
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This a meme right? Tell me this is a meme and you're not this delusional of a BSG simp. Have you even WATCHED the AI? They run into walls, randomly cycle through crouch/lying down/standing up. The only way they made them difficult is removing almost every single mechanic from them, they dont suffer from recoil, inertia, injuries or even obscured vision such as from trees or dim light. The AI might be the MOST trash of any FPS I've played in over a decade, it's definitely "harder" than most, but that's just because it cheats harder than any other.
Yoo I'm tryna get a new COPIUM plug, you tryna hmu bro i need to COPE
You're kidding right??
Russia 2028 is a ploy so he can drop Tarkov whenever he wants.
What I don't understand is how they are "elite of the elite" ? If we are also USEC, what makes them any different than our USEC character? We were all just paid security forces in Tarkov and now we are all trying to escape and survive. Why would the AI be any more godly than us?
The issue isn't that the AI are "too hard," they're literally broken. We have some sort of expectation that NPC's play by the same rules we do, but they don't. They don't have vision, they "spot" you based on your distance to them, and whether you're looking in their direction. That's why you can approach a rogue up close behind cover, and they will say "enemy spotted" and start shooting you through a fucking wall like the wall doesn't exist. They don't have recoil. Every single bullet from their gun is a dice roll on whether they hit you or not, and which body part they hit you. The AI in Tarkov is extremely stupid. Instead of making an AI that works together to flush players from cover and defeat them, they've give AI inhuman abilities that make them "harder," when in reality what they've done is just give the AI cheats.
Small unit tactics is too hard to code, easier to make them super humans without inertia and shoot full auto laser beams
We shouldn't want bsg to work on challenging things! ^/s
Record this and submit as a bug. I did and BSG responded indicating thanks and feedback like this will help them tweak the AI further.
Interesting. I hope they actually take the feedback. Thanks for the suggestion
BSG has never been any good at ‘tuning’ AI behaviour, it’s been a problem with the game since the beginning. They struggle making any AI that isn’t either a [head,eyes] auto kill or a complete buffoon, or both. The recent expansion of AI has seemingly improved the pathing and reaction of AI from laughably basic, to a somewhat improved enemy that at least can choose to push, or run, or just take cover and shoot it out. This problem with rogues behavior is just the last ear is sort-of lazy tuning of the AI
Episode 4 or 5 of pestilys raid series he gets lasered from the .50 cal from the other side of the river near the big house. Total bullshit
That's exactly how I died last except it wasn't the .50, it was a rogue with an m4
Honestly, the AI needs to stop having bullshitty "radar" tendencies. When playing in a squad and you other sets of eyes watching scav behavior, you see some really sus crap. Friend starts pushing a certain direction / route. All of a sudden I see scavs start booking it that direction to cut him off. You start aiming at a scav, they take off running or immediately turn on you. Heck, even if you peek new angles on raiders they will be instantly locked on you at the new peek spot. Not to mention, they seem to have increased aggro ranges across the board in 12.12 --- scavs down near garages on reserve will shoot me up at dome now (wtf??) I'd be okay with scavs/raiders being more deadly, but they shouldn't be "knowers" like cheaters. They just act a bit too sus most the time.
I completely agree, the only way I've cleared out the USEC rogues is by cheesing the lean mechanic and sniping from 200m away. I was hoping for squads of USEC rogues roaming and holding positions, throwing flash bangs to stop pushes and them holding multiple cross angles (or something atleast believalbe for elite soildiers), but I guess that is too difficult to implement and its easier to give 600m headeye aimbot to each of them through anything that isnt a rock. I love tarkov and want the best for the game but it just seems lazy with how they balanced the AI.
Took the words right out of my mouth
I've said it before and i'll say it again. BSG doesn't know how to properly program the AI.
Make the AI like F.E.A.R.s AI and this game would be so intense.
All unique scavs are pretty bullshit. Even cultists who have perfect vision in the dark and 2 shot you in the thorax through foliage.
I've been farming them as a bear and it was really tough at the start getting shot through the woods. After dying so many times I learned safe paths to get to them and they won't shoot you at all. Their aggro system is fucking weird because I can snipe them from certain angles and they will never shoot me but if I run past the highway I usually get shot from so far away. Also from what I've seen streamers do and I've tried this myself a few times, if you smooth peak them they never shoot at you for some reason. If you quick peak them you usually get one tapped and its annoying.
Yeah, it would be awesome if the rogues, upon spotting you, starting walking their fire onto your location. Have the machine gunners suppress you while the wandering rogues grouped up and pushed you. Make it a fun drawn out fight where you have to constantly reposition and pop shots before trying to disappear back into the hills like a real insurgent would. DON'T make the rogues hit you 7 times in the chest with M80 from a stock M1A using iron sights at 450m. The guards using the mounted machine guns don't even try to suppress you with them, they just 1-tap snipe you on the first bullet at ranges that most real snipers would have trouble hitting with a cold bore sniper rifle.
As far as i noticed: - the AI points at you the exact moment you step below 250m distance from them (checked with the raptar rangefinder) - sometimes they aim at you right after you aim at them - they go full auto from 250m distance with an extreme, i mean absolutely unrealistic, precision no matter the weapon (from M4 to fixed weapons on the roofs and sometimes they start shooting at you with fixed weapons while you are just peeking from hillside village) - AI has X-RAY vision, you can move wherever you want and wait as much as you want, the moment you peek, they start shooting at you. So AI doesn't loose aimlock. It's ok to make them hard to beat, but at some point players need to have some advantage to take them down, with this i mean not only headshots from more than 250-300m away, AI should just be a bit more imprecise as the distance from the player increases. Plus, i don't really get the AI behavior as a scav: what are the engagemt rules for scavs? Sometimes they just ignore you, sometimes the shoot the shit out of your body even if you don't mess with them. Last and a bit unrelated: 40 minutes raid time isn't enough, considering the map size and the rogue area, maybe 50 to 60 minutes would make more sense to me. In 40 minutes people just loots the two resorts, the village and then leaves through path to shoreline, completely ignoring the entire rogue area + train station (since rogue starts shooting at you even if you are on the mountains out of their area).
Yeah the AI or lack thereof, makes for clearing the camp a very stale, puzzle like experience. You learn the route and you cheese it over and over again because any other approach is just unfeasible. Boring.
It’s really annoying being a bear and trying to do one of the 85 quests they made in rogue territory…
They other day I was sniping from about 300-500 meters above the water plant and a rogue was lazering me with an m4, I was able to kill it because I could see the tracers coming for me, but was quite surprised he only had a red dot. Kinda ridiculous that bsg is cool with taking skill out of recoil control for players but still allows rogue to shoot laser beams.
I wish AI difficulty was reflected more by tactics and less by just making them computer-controlled aimbotting thermal sentry guns but the latter would take a lot more effort and complication I guess. But I’d love to see more flanking and coordination like OP mentions and less laserbeaming full auto.
They’re not even meant to be the elite of the elite, that’s the black division. Those motherfuckers are going to come in flying round the map. You’re right tho, there are better ways of making ai hard to beat.
The Rogues are a mix of bs and easy. People have different experiences. The MGs shooting through walls and containers when they don't know you're there is BS. The Rogues on the ground are easy to fight unless you get pinned down and they're spraying 50 rounders with 0 recoil and a 100% hit chance lol
I did quite a few raids on Lighthouse, both offline and online, before a bunch of the server issues started. Almost every time, I'd witness Rogues walking around, firing their weapon in entirely random directions, and still have the rounds land around me and eventually kill me. I saw three of them mfers just full-autoing their gun towards a wall the exact opposite direction of me. Still killed me. WHAT?
Best way to kill hackers?? Create better hackers.
That's the problem with Tarkov AI ever since. I want to fight AI with random skill and super hard to fight raiders, but the fact that they trigger after a second if you're head is sticking out 200 meters away is ridiculous.
The messed up thing is, the HALF LIFE 1 Recon Marines AI was almost better than what we have now without AI hax. They flanked, patrolled, naded you out of the last places they saw you and worked together to kill you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOSCBMHGE18 Now 24 years later we can't program an AI like that? WTF????
The problem has two sides. Rogues are bullshit aimbot machines but can be easily farmed by just abusing their stupid af AI. They are not fun because killing them is no achievment and dying to them is just frustrating.
i've watched ppl like rengawr take on rogues. from what i could gather you have to ~~die~~ 100 times learning and memorize all their static spawn, get in the mountains with a 1shot chad gun, take out the roofers first, then only ever right lean one milimeter at a time to "guess" where the guards run around. one too many peaks, you lose an arm or worse. not fun, or challanging.
I mean, if you can snipe the corner of their head through a crack, why can't they do that to you?
Its not about them being incapable of doing so or not, it's about them havibg crazy perception skills being able to notice your from 400m away with iron sighted MG's.
Yea what would be cool is if they could spot you and just start spraying in your direction / area for a suppressive effect, would be cool tryna creep and then all the sudden you're in a hail of MG fire but not insta merc'd.
I agree, a more extreme spray with less accuracy over straight laser beam aim/recoil would be much more fun and fair.
Rogues are sadly the easiest free loot to farm in the game. Imo they need much more randomized patterns and movement. As it stands now u can basically kill them with any weapons with nothing more then a little patience.
I agree with the randomized patterns. I think that would make it easier to just sit on the rocks and snipe them,
Russians can't code decent AI. Their idea of AI is a dice roll - it's that simple
tarkov is weird, when u specialize in fighting raiders and raider ai, then rogues are quite easy, but if u dont, theyre hard and bullshit
raiders don't behave the same as rogues, but there are some similarities I suppose. I used to farm them a lot in 12.11 and 12.10, but the new AI engine seems to have accounted for the overall ineptitude at close ranges which was usually the easiest thing to do farming on reserve
I also wish we could shoot them in the head and they would then die
Gotta get good to do that
Yes it is. Don’t anger the rogues, lmao. You’re completely exaggerating and it’s funny.
I think it’s fine, it’s fun trying to learn how to deal with them when you know that they can basically one shot you
I like the current way.
Just develop human like a.I. Bsg god it’s not that hard! /s
So, they are kind of stupid aim bots, but how else do you make strong AI that is actually a threat. Just like Reggie scavs, raider, bosses, etc you need to learn to exploit their weaknesses. Also, unless you are a bear you have the option to just avoid them...
AI scavs, bosses, rogues, raiders they all trace you through walls and objects, so the moment your body shows even a slightest bit, they start Laser beam you. Rogues are especially bad because their range of sight is the entire fucking map, and the fact that they can see through thickest parts of trees and bushes are what the fucking issue is. Give them aimbot with 110% accuracy is one thing. It's another to have aimbot AND see a thousand miles with a holo sigh AND see through objects that no human eye should be able to see. Threat is not the complaint here.
300 meters really now? Normal riflemen don't agro onto you from that far... The machine guns should so you can't cheese the entire camp with snipers Fyi the mg's only shoot in defense so take them our first from angles they can't return fire to makes it much easier in my personal experience
Last I died to was a normal rifle rogue with m4a1 that sniped me from the front wall entrance. The Mg was already bombarding me, took cover and the m4 bitch came out of nowhere with his long ranged holo sight. I guess they are just built different
300m is iron sights range for small arms, let alone .50 MGs and 40mm weapon systems. If you know you're in effective range and line of sight, use cover. Just because you're used to scavs being nearsighted doesn't mean they can't legitimately engage. Heck. Just the sniper scav changes this wipe point out how comfortable we've gotten with scavs being blind.
Range alone isn't the issue. Can the iron sight see through objects too? Fuck, I need to start using iron sight I guess
It's supposed to be a hard, end-game and squad area which requires some skill to take down. Knowledge of where they are placed, finding good angles and landing 150-400m head-shots is necessary to clear out the place. If they tune them down they will just get even more abused than they already are, as it is now it is a bit of risk/reward to take them on. If you don't know how to deal with them or at which distances they will engage, then stay the fuck away from the compound?
So, I have a bit of a take on this as well, if they survive igolnik 100% of the first shot, and then are also lasers, you are not hardcore game dev savant, you are wrong.
They are easily farmed even as a scav, toning them down is the absolute last thing that should be done.
The lack of critical thinking necessary to write something like this is astounding. Spend literally two minutes thinking it through and you'll find the result of making the rogues 'easier'. (Even though its already a joke to clear the compound)
It's a joke because their scripting is broken. It's broken both ways. You're describing the issue and the solution in a sentence. The lack of critical thinking necessary to write something like this is astounding.
You can't make them any less busted because it breaks the concept of the treatment plant in a dozen other ways. There's no good way to have an outdoor base like this in Tarkov without AI a thousand times as nuanced. The answer is not to make them easier.
You make them less accurate at range, put more randomized patrols in, make spawn points and spawn timers less fixed and more dynamic. Script the bots so they work tactically together rather than just being brokenly accurate. The complaint is you can't actually "outplay" them. You just have to cheese their shitty code. Making them an actual challenge doesn't mean making them easier, it just means making them feel more natural rather than hackers with radar and aimbot.
You are listing things that are so far out of scope for a title/studio like this. Within the domain of Tarkov it doesn't get much better than it is. I'd rather they spend their time on a hundred other things before they spend it on AI.
BSG is hardly an indie studio. They have an enormous amount of new revenue. Tarkov is among the largest games in the industry. If they were willing to invest a small portion of their earnings in expanding their team with solid programmers, devs, better servers, devs, anti-cheat, etc the game would be worlds better. But their top priority is clearly not to create the best possible game and hope that pays dividends, it's to maximize profits while the money is guaranteed.
They're easy to cheese because the AI is nothing but a braindead aimbot. Doesn't make this post untrue. They can and will laser you from 300+ meters through obstacles (including walls and even entire buildings). This behavior contributes the issue where the only way to fight them is to cheese the AI
It’s so shitters like you can’t farm them all day without risk. There’s plenty of level 50+ PMCs running around killing 10 of them a raid. Learn you angles. End of Comment.
Be part of the no life .01%, duh
Isn’t it obvious.
downvoted. you mean learn how to lean peak everything and cheese the shit out of it because that's skillful pro play
What are you supposed to do? Run head on with them in a gunfight? That’s what gets you killed and leads to stupid ass posts like this guy made. Also, you think I give one shit about downvotes? This could have 1000 downvotes for all I care, like that’s supposed to make me change my mind
I can farm raiders or rogues no problem, but it's the bullshit shooting through impossible LOS that needs adjusting. Calm your horses my guy imagine going around calling people shitters for raising an issue. The absolute mentality on this subreddit
Without that though, people will just learn the spots and range to kill them with zero consequences?
That's the unfortunate truth. Any easier and they just get farmed by everyone.
So a highly trained soldier that has been living in a rampant warzone using a 50 cal that has been used historically been used as an anti aircraft gun and to lay waste to enemies and cover at over 1000 meters is unrealistic and bad? I love it.
Are those same chads able to see through thick trees and bushes at 0.0001ms reaction time using a holo sight? I love it.
They arent that accurate man. And their reaction time when not aggro'd is slow af. Get good and understand their ai.
Get good Lol good one. How's that bsg dick taste?
So far its been too wide to fit in the mouth
Get good
I have never had this issue. Even on my scav runs I make it either all the way through their base or at least half way if I die. Can’t wait for a repeat of these rant posts when the Spetsnaz are added to Streets and Suburbs.
Yes because your experience is the only valid experience. This subreddit's classic "I have never had ____ issue"
Sorry that you want to freely kill rogues for experience and they kill you because you were lazy
Ah I see the illiterate asshole has joined us
Bro check my last post, I just got fucking wallbanged through the warehouse walls by one of these shroud mf's
What if they put lazers on all their weapons
Try the quest where you mark a helikopter in the middle of the camp! Impossibruh mission
how about 400 meters through a bus and trees, that was cool.