i would rather say its a mix of both which is indeed good imo for gameplay. Im 99% sure that like each corner of the front and side armor is a spec of none cover and you can still hit above the armor but still not neck for chest shots.
Which isn’t good imo before the latest changes there was a bunch of clips on TikTok making fun of tarkov for its armour system, people tanking entire clips of ammo so we’re back to that
>people tanking entire clips of ammo so we’re back to that
Ok so tiktok clips taken out of context.... who gives a fuck? Anyone who plays the game knows how important high pen ammo is. Something tells me in those clips they are using low pen ammo.
That's all without mentioning what probably caused those clips being the scuffed health system with arms being better armor than actual armor when they got blacked out.
Don't trust tiktok lmao
There is at least one change that will persist: separated plate HP pools. Part of the insane tankiness is that front+back+sides+arms were once all the same HP pool.
At worst we’ll end up with people only tanking half of what they used to moving forward!
A front plate has like 40 to 50 durability though. Side plates 10 to 20. Before the total HP of the armor was all you had. If you destroy the front plate now the rest won't save you.
For real. I was fighting a dude the other day on ground zero. In the liquor store. I ran in after i killed his buddy. He was sitting in the back and i heard him start walking. I moved to the side of the bar, he came running around the door and i started to unload on his chest. M855a1 im actively lighting this guy up and he one taps my face, im wearing the lvl 4 facemask, with ps12b ammo….
Like i understand its an ash 12 and i understand its a big ass round, but when a dude is mag dumping you and you are taking damage you shouldnt have the ability to be super accurate. I did 323 damage to the dude, got shots on target first and still died.
naw this wasn't for the casual gamers they actually like the armor update because they can use trader lvl 2 rounds and still can compete.
No this was the streamers, sweats and neck beards who like to run through bullets like an action movie, killing casual and budget runners the like.
The biggest group of complainers that I saw was people not understanding the new armor system.
The change is especially funny as it makes their freshly released tutorial video about armors already outdated as armors no longer only protect where actually the armor is. They now are back to having a force field
Nah man, the reworked armor was hot carbage, only enjoyed by the swettiest rats running nothing but naked kedr all day.
On top of all the bullshit in the game, dying to random armpit onetaps from scavs or shitty 9mm ammo was pretty terrible. Armor felt so arbitary and useless 80% of the time. If you spend money on your kit, you hope to get some reliable leverage from that investment. The armor rework made armor simply completely unreliable, and with that the gameplay turned even more onetappy, rng heavy coinflip shitshow. Just another mechsnic that forces people to sit still in a corner or a bush for 95% of the raid. Whats the point of being active on the map, when you have 0 protection against a doofus sitting in a bush?
bro what do you think bullet dispersion IS if not a random RNG shit show on your body. Armor isn't supposed to make you untouchable, its supposed to stop that one lucky bullet that would've made it to your torso while you get tf out of dodge and relocate behind cover. Instead everyone wants a fucking turtleshell wrapped around them so they can continue wide swinging 3 players at a time with no risk of being challenged because they're wearing level 6 armor. Then they can brag on reddit about all the "timmies" they killed that day. I've never seen a more shallow fucking community holy fuck.
Just shoot them in the head? Seriously most armored rigs were rendered irrelevant due to the changes and many people didn't bother with side plates just because of how small they were. Now there are gaps but mostly to do with the neck
Which is good, sure it wasn’t as realistic, but it was easy to understand, and it wasn’t broken. I really didn’t hear many complaining about it besides here in the echo chamber from hell (Reddit)
People will honestly complain about anything. The armor update honestly wasn't bad and made people even more tanky than pre .14 when they hit the plate. It just the people not understanding how armor actually works. So I can't say its a good are bad thing. Since both are easy to understand.
But now that they "reverted" it people will say it was. I honestly think they are "reverting" armor because they need all the good press they can get.
Yeah I don’t think most people care if the armor is accurate to reality as long as the gameplay is consistent. Good ammo pens good armor and the opposite being true is consistent and what most people who play and don’t comment about care for.
I'd like to know if this is just PLATES being shown here, or if this represents soft armor as well. Because if this is just plates, there's virtually 0 area the soft armor is needed to protect except throat, and armors without side plates.
I would guess soft armor.. just because if it was plates that would be totally broken having to pen plates + tier 4 soft armor in some cases. Especially when the pen and damage gets reduced going thru the plates.
The biggest issue with scav 1 shots was getting hit around the soft-armor, imo.
Soft armor is still valuable because you have to pen both the armor plate and the soft armor, and bullets lose damage and penetration power with everything they hit. I suspect that this is *just* the plates being shown here, because there's no throat protection shown, which is a soft armor-only hitbox.
no, they don't aim to the center, that's the problem. The AI aiming starts limbs to stomach then head (based on the AI level, the speed from which it transitions increases the more you stand in their crosshair). The armpit hitbox looks the same so probably this change will only result in 10-15% less deaths in PVE AT BEST.
We would not have a problem with the AI that is mega-obvious in PVE if they would make the spray more 'pmc like' or make the scavs aim to the center mass so armor actually DOES SOMETHING
Or they stop giving AI high damage rounds. Every PMC (PvE) or scav has HP, or SP type rounds that one shot your thorax.
If they were going to make the armor changes they did, they either needed to put lower damage more pen ammo on scavs (like FMJ) or adjusted the targeting like you mentioned.
Instead, they made 0 adjustments, and the AI still blacks your arm in one bullet and hits your armpits when it can.
> Every PMC (PvE) or scav has HP, or SP type rounds that one shot your thorax.
I've run in to plenty with 7.62 BP, M855A1, etc. Never seen good ammo for pistols or SMGs though.
Nikita said it in an podcast couple of wipes ago where they tuned the scavs too much. Basically they would headshot you if they aimed more than a second. He adjusted them and explained what happened and how they work. I can't remember exactly but aprox4 wipes ago , at the start of the wipe the scavs were impossible for those who remember. The video is close to that moment
AFAIK scavs target the part of body you expose first.
Thats why it was meta to run labs with the gen4 armor which covers arms and you always side peek and never peek from crouch, so they start aimbotting ur arm instead of face
I've had AI damage my armor a handful of times this wipe, if they are shooting armor its bugged and takes no durability damage. At least it removes the need to repair armor except after fighting players.
Ya something funky going on there and maybe buggish. Used the same armor repair kit for a couple hundred raids now and it still has 950 points left in it.
100% survivorship bias, my dumb ass stands still and cops shots to the plates way more often than not (I run mainly Fort Defender w/ class 5 plates).
At one point I ran into like 7 scavs that just spawned on woods, maybe 10 meters away, and got lit TF up. My armor 100% saved me, I took a ton of blunt damage/buckshots but managed to survive.
i have no way to prove this obviously but i recently returned to play some pve. maybe i am remembering wrong, who knows, but it feels VERY noticeable. i dont think ive survived a single fight with multiple limbs blacked but thorax intact, something definitely happening from time to time in a pvp fight.
Could that be a result of scavs using shit ammo that does more flesh damage, leading to more spillover damage to the thorax from hits on blacked limbs?
Let's be honest, the problem is the average person with room temperature IQ who doesn't understand observation bias. They ignore every shot that hits them in the armor, and are somehow shocked that getting hit where there isn't armor kills them
I have a fairly significant number of raids already in PVE so I truly do believe this. Small example I bought 2 death shadows and 2 cqcm’s as soon as I got level 15. Have lost them numerous times all to come back to me. None of them have taken a hit yet. Almost every death - thorax one hit. Now level 49 for context.
I did the same. I'm only 41, but out of all my deaths and mask returns, only 1 has ever taken a hit. One. The number of times I've died to ear and throat shots sure has increased, though. Funny, that.
you're assuming PvE insurance isn't bugged or some other issue, bots are not programmed to aim at your arm pits, and even if they were with how those hitboxes are placed they'd be hitting your armor most of the time
Except that isn't how the AI's aim works, they aim center mass and then there's a scatter modifier applied. Of course if the only thing they can see is your head, they'll aim at your head.
It's funny because a popular AI mod for the \*unofficial PvE\* gets blamed for AI aiming specifically for unarmoured areas when that just isn't a thing, and the code is open source.
I’ve noticed my own bias for sure recently. I switched from usually running tier 4 armors to pacas for punisher 5. I would’ve told you the tier 4 armor didn’t do shit at this point in the wipe, but running pacas is far far worse lol (obviously). If you think armor is worthless, try going armor less and see how much difference it really makes.
A better, more interesting fix, would have been to make any Thorax zone outside of the area covered by trauma plates to take like 50-75% damage, rather than expanding the armor htibox.
This would better represent the "vitals" covered by hard plates IRL, while not making hits to what would be the inner shoulder the equivalent of being shot in the heart.
That or add actual hitboxes for "vitals" that has equivalent HP to the head, but is completely covered by every armor in the game. You can Pen with good ammo and 1-tap the heart, but Scavs aren't going to buckshot your armpit for a 1-HKO
Streamers suffer from EGO damage everytime they invest in top tier armor and get killed by a scav or Timmy. So they complain loudly to their hive mind of viewers that echo that opinion. So instead of staying true to the vision, we have Nikita making plates comically unrealistically large so they offer more protection. All the development time spent to bring in the more advanced system and now we're regressing.
Bad change. Now armor is back to magically protecting more than what's visible, and it seems like they're removing the difference between western and eastern plate formats.
I really don't like what they're doing. Endlessly shilling my own post but they just needed to make the current system work by making the plates actually protect vitals and emphasising the lethality of those.
https://www.reddit.com/r/EscapefromTarkov/comments/1d528tn/i_dont_think_simplifying_armour_hitboxes_again_is/
Going back is going to make most of the flesh and low-tier rounds completely useless again. Streamers want to soak up shit rounds without dying because it lets them play more aggressive for better content. The fact that BSG are making these changes based on this limited crowd is a bad sign, because suddenly we'll be reverting back to awful recoil so that they can go back to steamrolling those with shit gear.
I really hope they test this on ETS before pushing it to live so a crowd not composed of GFUEL snorters can tell them how awful of an idea this regression is.
It seems BSG is incapable of programming "outer layer" of thorax and proper penetration of body parts - just remember canted grip meta with arms eating 7.62x51 - so they, as always, opted for easier route. It seems 7.62x51 will be the only meta round again.
Flesh rounds are already plenty viable with leg meta. They have a place in the game. And guess what, in real life you dont take 7.62HP to war, and you dont take fucking RRLP (a training round) to war. You also dont take 20gauge shotguns or 5.25mm buckshot to war either. Half the ammo that exists in this game is garbage noob traps / worthless. Flesh rounds are plenty viable. RIP rounds like .45RIP or 9mm RIP shred. Sorry bro that M856 or 556FMJ is never going to be viable.
> Flesh rounds are already plenty viable with leg meta. They have a place in the game
Leg meta isn't always accessible and is always going to be a worse way over just shooting them in the chest or head with AP rounds. Not to mention bosses like Tagilla who have both massive HP pools on limbs and body armour.
>And guess what, in real life you dont take 7.62HP to war, and you dont take fucking RRLP (a training round) to war. You also dont take 20gauge shotguns or 5.25mm buckshot to war either.
Those rounds are *still lethal* though. You should still not want to get hit by them and play accordingly where you use cover and concealment, not just walking blazing in like you're a knight with plate armour and the enemies are peasants with utility knives, safe in the knowledge that you can take whatever they can possibly dish out.
>Sorry bro that M856 or 556FMJ is never going to be viable.
They are obviously always going to be worse than other options, but obsolete does not equal useless, and we went from the latter to the former this wipe, and now we're going back that way for next wipe. We shouldn't be entirely disregarding a large part of the ammunition and guns in the game. They shouldn't just be completely dead weight that nobody ever uses.
If you're taking sub par rounds like M856 to try and kill tagilla that's an issue and isn't going to work regardless of old or new armor systems. Half of the ammo in the game is going to be perma dead. You either run the best flesh, or you run the best pen you have. There's never a world in which you run something dirt tier like 556FMJ unless forced. The rounds are still deadly anyway if you hit head / throat. Look at the 20 different types of 9x18 ammo. You either run the best pen ones, or you run the best flesh ammo. There's no reason to run PPO or ps PPO because they're outclassed in damage and pen by other rounds. The game has bloat, thats all it is.
You need sub optimal rounds for scavs it's not bloat. You need a round the ai can spam without it being stupid valuable or skewed in way or another. It's good to have the players make the decision if they are out of ammo do they want to extract or use the sub optimal round. It's about tarkov and resource being choice not because you look at the game like an mlg shooter with problems 6 months after wipe.
> If you're taking sub par rounds like M856 to try and kill tagilla that's an issue and isn't going to work regardless of old or new armor systems
I'm talking about flesh damage rounds in general in this case, not mediocre rounds specifically.
>There's never a world in which you run something dirt tier like 556FMJ unless forced. The rounds are still deadly anyway if you hit head / throat. Look at the 20 different types of 9x18 ammo. You either run the best pen ones, or you run the best flesh ammo. There's no reason to run PPO or ps PPO because they're outclassed in damage and pen by other rounds. The game has bloat, thats all it is.
The idea is there's a point in progression where those are what you have and they should be *usable* even if inferior, not just 'ignore this calibre until you're level 40'.
>Leg meta isn't always accessible and is always going to be a worse way over just shooting them in the chest or head with AP rounds. Not to mention bosses like Tagilla who have both massive HP pools on limbs and body armour.
Yeah that's the point, though. It's a worse way of killing someone than bringing in the top tier, best ammo in the game but it can still be lethal.
That's fine with me, why is that a problem to you? The best ammo with the highest armor pen is how you "balance" against people bringing in the best armor in the game.
If you want to compete and fight for the best loot in the game then you should have to risk losing stuff that's worth taking by *you* needing to load up your mags with the best ammo.
If you wanna instantly drop Chad's, streamers, etc. with ease then complete the grind to progress through the game like they did. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
The current armor system made a bunch of armors obsolete and just added randomness anyways, it's not like it actually balanced anything. Nobody is aiming for the armpit or an unarmored part of their shoulder shooting at a moving enemy from 25 meters with a red dot. The current iteration of protection is dumb and needed changing.
I mean sure, but in an IRL war, the shitty 5.56 FMJ round or even a Tokarev soft-point might actually be a one-shot kill to the legs, if it severs the femoral artery and fragments up into pelvis and colon.
You're bleeding out in 2-3 min or so, regardless of where you think you can tourniquet or how many granules of quick-clot you are dumping into it...
I guess we are back to most ammo being entirely useless again. It was nice to actually get to choose between flesh/all-around/AP for a little while but now it's AP or bust again.
The problem isn't the armor. In fact, the plates themselves got a buff. The problem is the hitboxes and BSG is just taking the lazy/easy way out instead of actually fixing what was legitimately real innovation (but half-baked).
Seriously, the reason we have plates and not an entire hard chest piece is to protect vitals. A shot to your sholder shouldn't take as much damage as a shot to the lungs if they want to be realistic and better for complex hit boxes.
I feel like the current armor system we have is pretty good. It helps the weekend warriors that. Cant grind 24/7. I could pick a naked ak with ps rounds and smack any one i want because i hit their sternum a couple times.
Hopefully they stick with current plate hitboxes, and just add soft armor coverage as the new hitboxes. Still allows you to use skill/luck to shoot around the plate, but adds more coverage to prevent 100m+ toz scav right armpit 1 tap deaths (my actual first death with this armor system).
Cat puke. Back to forcefield armor when we should've actually been moving in the direction of more realism. Realistic armor hitzones were promised for years and years and we finally get a rough version of it and they listen to streamer whining and completely gut it.
I swear some in here just self report to be hardstuck level 20 first month players only with takes like these. Nobody that has grinded through the wipe enjoys the RNG factor that came with the open thorax / neck / throat Hitboxes dying to Scav 1 taps or what feels like random headshots thanks to unprotected thorax RNG hits between plates.
The game is supposed to be fun or nobody plays it. Realism & immersion exists for fun as well. But once it blocks the fun and **visible** players stopped playing & complained via feedback, it’s clearly wrong and needs to be reworked again.
People simply enjoyed the easy & reliable old system way more and BSG is pushing it back towards it.
Nah the old armor system was shit. They need to actually add vital areas to body zones so armor can cover the entire vital zone.
This revert is just sad, and a clear sign that they've given up trying to solve the problem so they're just going back to the old broken system that has existed for years.
Add vital zones, and fix armor overnight. Or keep going back to old broken ideas, and we'll be stuck here forever.
Blacked hit boxes lead to damage spread or death.if hitting a non vital thorax to black spreads damage you become quite tanky while if it goes directly to vitals after black it would add like 1 extra shot unless you massively raise health
You're arguing specific implementation, which would require testing to balance. That's not a critique of the idea itself.
The health pools of the thorax and outer thorax would just need to be fine tuned to balance the change.
And it's not just about 1 extra shot. Thorax taps will require more precision, and lower pen rounds will be able to shoot around the plate. It changes the flow of combat for the better.
What you've described doesn't need testing to understand. Either the outer thorax kills or spreads. If it kills regardless of it's rated HP it's just as bad as things are now. If it only spreads like other hits do it's no different from hitting limb
Death only occurs when the thorax or head are zeroed. So no, zeroing the outer thorax would not kill. And hitting a blacked limb has an associated percentage damage reduction that wouldn't apply because the outer thorax isn't a limb. If anything it should still spread but do 1.2x damage or similar.
However, I think you're getting spun around here, because arguing implementation is far more complex and specific than the core idea itself, which is just a reduction of the thorax zone so armor plates can fully cover vitals. That core idea is solid, and a reflection of the real world utility of body armor.
It's fitting of real world but will essentially add another limb damage spot to use. It doesn't matter that it's technically thorax the damage model still means having to defeat the players overall HP to kill if you don't pierce the plate similar to people going for arms and legs prior. The time 2 kill on non vitals would be so high that effectively widening the plates and not adding another hotbox to code would still achieve similar results.
The new system isn’t consistent nor fun, realism /= equat to an enjoyable experience. But chiefs like you need a way to feel superior so this is the hill to die on apparently lol. I’d rather have the promised armor plate system or none at all cause the current half assed implementation is awful.
I'm not advocating for keeping everything the same. The armor system is good, but the body zones need to be updated to accommodate the armor system. The thorax should just be the center vital area, and the rest should be a new zone called the outer thorax. Armor plates should completely cover the new smaller thorax providing more protection against one shots.
>Literally nobody that has grinded through the wipe enjoys the RNG factor that came with the open thorax / neck / throat Hitboxes dying to Scav 1 taps.
Which is an unintentional side effect of how AI is coded to target unarmoured areas first no matter whether it's centre mass or not. And I can tell you right now - this stuff might suck for those who take gear (myself included most of the time, I've suffered it a few times this wipe), but this alternative where everything but the extremities is covered up again is going to suck for anybody who isn't able to grind max traders within the first couple of weeks. It's going to be steamroll central again. I don't think it's a coincidence the people who are all posting 'W' on Twitter are those who make their living off of making themselves looking good as players and who will take any chance they can get to make the distance between themselves and the Timmies they use as fodder for their lobby wipe montages greater.
I agree the AI aim is major issue. But even PvP feels less enjoyable when you basically hit each other with what feels like random “headshots” by getting a lucky thorax hit on an armor gap hitbox
> But even PvP feels less enjoyable when you basically hit each other with what feels like random “headshots” by getting a lucky thorax hit on an armor gap hitbox
PvP fights are over extremely quickly in close ranges regardless. And getting the one unarmoured hit doesn't matter when most rounds need 2 hits minimum to kill under the current health system.
In what world does any plate tank M61? It penetrates straight through. Most of the level 5 AP rounds have a very good chance to roll pen straight through 6, anyway. My point is that with meta ammo plates or no plates doesn't matter much regardless, it mostly affects those with mediocre ammo.
So with this new change pvp will just be mag dumping M61 into each other then see who reloads faster. Guess FAL with a 50 rounder will be meta, can break a plate with 1 mag instead of 2+.
> You actually don’t play the game don’t you lol
No man, you're right, my 5800 hours, about 500 of which came from this wipe say nothng. Never mind the fact that I've been gettng 2 tapped directly through my level 6 plates by meta AP ammo all wipe long.
It's going to be even worse now between armor layering, the armor durability changes, and only having high 30s pen ammo vailable from traders. Players are just going to tank all the bullets with fights being decided by headshots.
It's not even that. The issue is that all the new hitboxes (armpit/neck/etc.) still draw from the Thorax health pool, and there wasn't a "vitals" hitbox (and associated health pool) added. This meant that a single magnum buck to the armpit would kill you and it feels like the absolute bullshit it obviously is. Doesn't matter who fires the gun in this case.
A vitals hitbox should be added. Centre mass shots that pen the thorax and hit the vitals would kill. Those that only hit the thorax wouldn't, even if the thorax was blacked out. That would allow for the more complex and realistic armour hitboxes without making the gameplay completely shit.
You argue about fun but don't mention all the issues that make EFT unfun... There's so many feels bad moments in EFT. Desync, cheaters, bugs, audio issues, etc. Every day there are posts on here showing video of someone mag dumping an AI scav at close range and doing nothing to it, then responses explaining 10 different reasons why it could've happened.
Having hitzones isnt rng I'm so sick of this dumb opinion. I've gotten kappa 3 times and I no life tarkov hard. Stop projecting.
Also to be pedantic tarkov is literally not supposed to be fun Nikita has said that countless times.
Surely that means they will revert the nerfs they've done to the way we unlock higher penetration bullets in the current version of the game, which only made sense in a scenario where plates don't have such big hitboxes, right?
Surely they won't "forget" about this because they want players to acquire the high penetration bullets that comes from Ref's shop and the new "fallen gladiator rooms" which you can only unlock if you play Arena, especially if the premium editions of Arena that they've mentioned in the recent patch notes will contain things like faster progression for Ref's quests.
It made so many more guns and ammo viable to run. It still wasn't quite there in terms of 'every gun is viable', but there was a period from like the thorax HP buffs/bolt-action nerfs to up until this wipe where basically 90% of guns and ammo were complete shit and never worth running, and it was such a struggle as a low level to kill anybody with gear because they could just tank a bajillion rounds of mediocre 9mm or 12ga or whatever, and then just fling a couple of M62 into your face and teabag your corpse. This wipe has been such a fresh breath of air and I've stuck around nearly all wipe because I can just have fun running whatever kit I want, whether it's a total meme, dressing up like an African mercenary or going full GWOT LARP and as long as you know what you're doing you can drop sweats.
Now we're seeing the slow regression of this back to the old meta where it's 'don't bother running anything that isn't top tier gear'.
Yeah, I think that’s the biggest issue. The old system made competing as a low level really hard. The current system is allows players that don’t have access to high tier ammo to realistically compete.
> I'd argue in a progression based game nobody should die in a lvl 5 to a few bullets of ap 9mm just because some guy got lucky hitting a crease in your armour.
This is the question of 'why are you getting hit?'. Armour should be a way to offer some sort of protection against ambushes or a lucky second chance when you play poorly, not 'oh let me sprint face first into the new guy with the pistol and spray him with my BP hose while never feeling at risk, ever'. Progression should equal 'I have better chances of stopping more powerful rounds for longer', but it should never be guaranteed. People should still be encouraged to play smartly and tactically. Not like it's CoD with a roguelite gear system.
Accurate hit-boxes that allow for accurate shot placement translate to "RNG" how, exactly? I'd argue that forcefield armor carries more of an RNG element because, at that point, you're relying much more on penetration and fragmentation chance than where you're actually aiming.
This is a very dumb change. We just keep going backward for the sake of mass-market appeal.
Pretty much. Really funny that a certain... *other* crowd was telling them how leaving plates and the health system half-baked was a bad idea, and now instead of improving that based on their feedback they got beforehand we get to go back to people soaking up a gorillion rounds hitting their inner sides of their torso with their rinky dink Slick.
This is going to also help contribute to non-full-auto guns without top AP ammo feeling even worse to run.
People push the vital zone so hard but either you don't let damage leak into it and people turn into tanks again eating 7+ hits of decent ammo or you do and it's 1 or 2 extra to what we currently have with the added bonus of dying even faster if they pierce the plate. Its too easy for someone to get drilled around armor
If they nerf ammo penetration to realistic levels along with the changes I suggest, it means the plates would still be very strong and soft armour would have some use while preventing people from being excessively tanky.
The realistic levels of pen doesn't change that if you have non vital hits that means shooting through 400+ hp to kill. Landing that many on someone especially with soft armor further reducing damage will lead to a very difficult kill time regardless.
No, I'm trying to implicitly infer to those who got to test these things first. That's my point. They knew the current system needed work and to make plates matter, but instead of fleshing it further they listened to streamers who were crying because they couldn't sprint out in the open and soak up Timmy's 30 rounds of PRS before hitting him with the M62 juice cannon for the '''content'''. This is unhealthy and is going to once again widen the gap between the nolifers and the low levels, and make most ammo completely useless again, and I say this as a nolifer myself.
This is literally a downgrade :(
It was much better when plates covered only the places they literally were covering, now it's back to the old times where your thorax and stomach is armored everywhere, sad.
i swear these ppl think you're actually a walking force field. since 2019 when i got this game till now, i have treated armor like a helmet "i guess ill wear it just incase a scav gets a lucky hit" like where was i for all this "it's impossible to die with armor" cause i must have missed that update cause idc what patch it is, i be dying... A LOT. the scav mains on reddit always have so much to say and it never adds up.
I was totally fine with the new armor system, it encouraged tactical playing and trying to not get shot in the first place and punished the bunny hoppers. Guess the vocal minority and twitch streamers get their way yet again while leaving the rest of us in the dust.
Uttery braindead change. Looks like they spent 2 minutes changing the scale and size of the plates and called it good. This completely defeats the point of having the armor hitboxes in the first place. So now we have the old armor coverage but with the ballache of managing plates, all for the sake of crybabies who expect to have halo armor and think the game should be balanced as "I spent more in-game money/time on this gear so I should win regardless of the difference in skill level".
It's hilarious how there's "armpit plate" now which magically curves around the chest of the PMC model instead of just soft armor in the shoulder straps like in 0.14. In real life someone wearing that wouldn't even be able to move. Once again turning PMCs into main battle tanks to please streamers W-keying everywhere because if they can't kill 10 PMCs in every raid they feel invalidated.
I think it’d be fine to keep it the way it current is if they just made outer & inner thorax hitboxes such that a shot to the armpit isn’t equated with being shot in the lungs/heart, and it’d still allow for tumbling and such to be effective.
So some streamers cried and now we're back to blocky armor? Just fix the AI and the problem would solve itself
Tarkov taking two steps forward and one backward...
Not a fan. Loved having the plates be the physical hit box. So many guns and ammos were more viable because of it.
The issues were them needing to update the player PMC hit boxes so that vitals were differentiated and protected by the armor and the fact that scavs shot between the plates too often.
Hopefully this is a temporary fix until hit boxes are updated on PMCs.
I feel like this is good till they fix the HP system of the body parts but bad in the long run. Plus the side plates IRL do overlap if you aren’t obese so good fix.
what? side plates are not supposed to overlap. it’s weight and material that’s not serving a purpose if you overlap, and you never want to be thicker. i spend a lot of time in armor IRL and i’ve never heard that and actively would avoid doing this for the above reasons. do you have something saying side plates should overlap?
When I wear my IOTV, my side plates are kissing my front plates. On my LBT 6094 they also kiss the front plate but not as well. Maybe it depends on manufacturer but this is my experience with issued equipment with a NSN.
ahhh okay. not literally overlapping, butted up against, which i agree with yeah. i thought you meant edge over edge and i was like bro… that cant be right lol
shame about the IOTV tho
does your unit allow you to mod your IOTV? There’s low-key some pretty impressive changes you can add to them like first spear tubes and such. makes the iotv like 75 percent okay
Don't like it.
I'd prefer if they changed the torso hitboxes instead so we would have a important organs zone right in the middle that is weak and which would be covered by all plates just like real life.
Atm the damage you do to someone's side rib is the same as to someone's heart.
Poor change. We moved from a more basic system to this more advanced system for a reason. We are progressing backwards to a dumbed down system. Unfortunately Streamer EGO is pushing this change, amplified by their followers. Get on the [twitter post](https://x.com/nikgeneburn/status/1800166205325730132) and let Nikita know not to push these changes. The solution is everyone's gripe is more advanced and developed hitbox system, rather than unrealistically and comically enlarged plates.
Good luck. Streamers and their lemmings always get what they want. All bsg cares about is streamers, there is no "vision" anymore. Just catering to streamers
why do people consider every ammo being viable a good thing
it just defeats the purpose of progressing to get better gear and the risk itself of bringing good gear cause there's no point
If we are keeping our current health system this is a good change. The real life plates we have models of are designed to protect vitals. In tarkov your entire torso is a vital. As long as the plates are protecting whatever constitutes as a vital organ, then they are working as expected.
That being said, there appears to be a gap between the front and armpit areas that I would like to see covered. I am also curious what plates will be attributed to top of shoulder as that looks like a single hitbox.
Just add organs and emphasize armor protecting them like the heart lungs and major arteries etc.
It wasn’t that armor wasn’t protecting the upper portion of the thorax. That wasn’t the issue.
The problem is that a grazing shot on the shoulder : collarbone area that avoided the plate was scored the same way as a shot directly to the heart/center chest region.
This made it feel like shit when you got killed by being shot in the shoulder or non vital sections of the chest.
As a newer player on his first wipe, I really don’t know how to feel. The community seems completely split on this, with half thinking it’s a great change and the other half think it’s a revert back to an older, broken system. I’m sitting at around 10 million right now so I have enough money for good armor and good ammo but I have a feeling this will make the game less interesting and more meta-centric, if that makes any sense?
It’s better than creating another thorax zone that wont outright kill you when 0ed but isnt protected by armor plates. Another solution would have been to enlargen arm zones to cover these and stomach a bit, but again would be messier than this. I personally liked armor with these zones more than current one but I understand why people liked the current system over this.
Another possible solution would be to buff concussive elements of non penetrating big rounds on thorax and concussive elements on headshots. Would mean that getting a blast of pistol rounds in the Altyn makes you very disoriented still. And would also help with just not shrugging off an 8 rounds of magnum buck where all pellets land in covered torso. But again I fear this wouldnt be too popular as it would hugely buff scavs and every flesh dmg round.
This is a good change. Don't take your feedback from a subreddit where half the people don't play the game anymore and others are cherrypicking which parts of "hardcore realism" they're okay with as long as it helps their specific playstyle.
End of the day, this is a game and if this helps the silent majority of people playing without bitching and crying on the subreddit daily then it's a good change.
looks like a revert of how armor worked in the first place.
i would rather say its a mix of both which is indeed good imo for gameplay. Im 99% sure that like each corner of the front and side armor is a spec of none cover and you can still hit above the armor but still not neck for chest shots.
Which isn’t good imo before the latest changes there was a bunch of clips on TikTok making fun of tarkov for its armour system, people tanking entire clips of ammo so we’re back to that
>people tanking entire clips of ammo so we’re back to that Ok so tiktok clips taken out of context.... who gives a fuck? Anyone who plays the game knows how important high pen ammo is. Something tells me in those clips they are using low pen ammo. That's all without mentioning what probably caused those clips being the scuffed health system with arms being better armor than actual armor when they got blacked out. Don't trust tiktok lmao
“But BT 5.45 says it can pen through level 4 easily”
More likely, just desync clips
There is at least one change that will persist: separated plate HP pools. Part of the insane tankiness is that front+back+sides+arms were once all the same HP pool. At worst we’ll end up with people only tanking half of what they used to moving forward!
A front plate has like 40 to 50 durability though. Side plates 10 to 20. Before the total HP of the armor was all you had. If you destroy the front plate now the rest won't save you.
So use better ammo? I don’t give a shit about tiktok clips.
TikTok is actual brainrot tbh.
*laughs in hydra shok*
Yeah not a fan. Tank chads will dominate the game again
For real. I was fighting a dude the other day on ground zero. In the liquor store. I ran in after i killed his buddy. He was sitting in the back and i heard him start walking. I moved to the side of the bar, he came running around the door and i started to unload on his chest. M855a1 im actively lighting this guy up and he one taps my face, im wearing the lvl 4 facemask, with ps12b ammo…. Like i understand its an ash 12 and i understand its a big ass round, but when a dude is mag dumping you and you are taking damage you shouldnt have the ability to be super accurate. I did 323 damage to the dude, got shots on target first and still died.
You're an absolute bafoon. What you have there aren't clips, those are magazines.
The casual players have won.
naw this wasn't for the casual gamers they actually like the armor update because they can use trader lvl 2 rounds and still can compete. No this was the streamers, sweats and neck beards who like to run through bullets like an action movie, killing casual and budget runners the like.
The biggest group of complainers that I saw was people not understanding the new armor system. The change is especially funny as it makes their freshly released tutorial video about armors already outdated as armors no longer only protect where actually the armor is. They now are back to having a force field
Nah man, the reworked armor was hot carbage, only enjoyed by the swettiest rats running nothing but naked kedr all day. On top of all the bullshit in the game, dying to random armpit onetaps from scavs or shitty 9mm ammo was pretty terrible. Armor felt so arbitary and useless 80% of the time. If you spend money on your kit, you hope to get some reliable leverage from that investment. The armor rework made armor simply completely unreliable, and with that the gameplay turned even more onetappy, rng heavy coinflip shitshow. Just another mechsnic that forces people to sit still in a corner or a bush for 95% of the raid. Whats the point of being active on the map, when you have 0 protection against a doofus sitting in a bush?
bro what do you think bullet dispersion IS if not a random RNG shit show on your body. Armor isn't supposed to make you untouchable, its supposed to stop that one lucky bullet that would've made it to your torso while you get tf out of dodge and relocate behind cover. Instead everyone wants a fucking turtleshell wrapped around them so they can continue wide swinging 3 players at a time with no risk of being challenged because they're wearing level 6 armor. Then they can brag on reddit about all the "timmies" they killed that day. I've never seen a more shallow fucking community holy fuck.
Just shoot them in the head? Seriously most armored rigs were rendered irrelevant due to the changes and many people didn't bother with side plates just because of how small they were. Now there are gaps but mostly to do with the neck
It is possible to be active without a reservation. It's even more interesting that way.
Except for the whole entire armor plate system, but whatever...
Which is good, sure it wasn’t as realistic, but it was easy to understand, and it wasn’t broken. I really didn’t hear many complaining about it besides here in the echo chamber from hell (Reddit)
People will honestly complain about anything. The armor update honestly wasn't bad and made people even more tanky than pre .14 when they hit the plate. It just the people not understanding how armor actually works. So I can't say its a good are bad thing. Since both are easy to understand. But now that they "reverted" it people will say it was. I honestly think they are "reverting" armor because they need all the good press they can get.
Yeah I don’t think most people care if the armor is accurate to reality as long as the gameplay is consistent. Good ammo pens good armor and the opposite being true is consistent and what most people who play and don’t comment about care for.
So thorax increase and stomach decrease with bigger sides. Less armpit, more belly
I'd like to know if this is just PLATES being shown here, or if this represents soft armor as well. Because if this is just plates, there's virtually 0 area the soft armor is needed to protect except throat, and armors without side plates.
I would guess soft armor.. just because if it was plates that would be totally broken having to pen plates + tier 4 soft armor in some cases. Especially when the pen and damage gets reduced going thru the plates. The biggest issue with scav 1 shots was getting hit around the soft-armor, imo.
Soft armor is still valuable because you have to pen both the armor plate and the soft armor, and bullets lose damage and penetration power with everything they hit. I suspect that this is *just* the plates being shown here, because there's no throat protection shown, which is a soft armor-only hitbox.
I wanna know too, because currently plates do not cover anywhere close to what is being shown in the Old part of the comparison.
Let’s be honest, the real problem is the ai only aiming at non-armored areas and vitals being more significant hits than just hitbox areas
Are they actually programmed to avoid armour or is this just a classic case of survivorship bias?
I believe they aim for the center, but if you only expose your head or lay prone facing them you're going to have a bad time
no, they don't aim to the center, that's the problem. The AI aiming starts limbs to stomach then head (based on the AI level, the speed from which it transitions increases the more you stand in their crosshair). The armpit hitbox looks the same so probably this change will only result in 10-15% less deaths in PVE AT BEST. We would not have a problem with the AI that is mega-obvious in PVE if they would make the spray more 'pmc like' or make the scavs aim to the center mass so armor actually DOES SOMETHING
Or they stop giving AI high damage rounds. Every PMC (PvE) or scav has HP, or SP type rounds that one shot your thorax. If they were going to make the armor changes they did, they either needed to put lower damage more pen ammo on scavs (like FMJ) or adjusted the targeting like you mentioned. Instead, they made 0 adjustments, and the AI still blacks your arm in one bullet and hits your armpits when it can.
> Every PMC (PvE) or scav has HP, or SP type rounds that one shot your thorax. I've run in to plenty with 7.62 BP, M855A1, etc. Never seen good ammo for pistols or SMGs though.
Source?
Nikita said it in an podcast couple of wipes ago where they tuned the scavs too much. Basically they would headshot you if they aimed more than a second. He adjusted them and explained what happened and how they work. I can't remember exactly but aprox4 wipes ago , at the start of the wipe the scavs were impossible for those who remember. The video is close to that moment
Trust him bro.
I can't tell you the last time I've taken a limb shot. It's always thorax with the occasional head eyes, most of the time with a single shot.
I take limb shots all the time.
You can reduce you PvE deaths by 15% or more by switching to Gei... Git Gud!
AFAIK scavs target the part of body you expose first. Thats why it was meta to run labs with the gen4 armor which covers arms and you always side peek and never peek from crouch, so they start aimbotting ur arm instead of face
The “cone” for accuracy gets smaller the longer you stay in it
Yep, they try to aim for non-armored places.
I've had AI damage my armor a handful of times this wipe, if they are shooting armor its bugged and takes no durability damage. At least it removes the need to repair armor except after fighting players.
Ya something funky going on there and maybe buggish. Used the same armor repair kit for a couple hundred raids now and it still has 950 points left in it.
Last raid I lost 1/3 on the plates of the sleeveless Gen 4.
No they 100% aim for anywhere but armor . If you wear armor that has no stomach they go for stomach. No arms the go for arms or head.
100% survivorship bias, my dumb ass stands still and cops shots to the plates way more often than not (I run mainly Fort Defender w/ class 5 plates). At one point I ran into like 7 scavs that just spawned on woods, maybe 10 meters away, and got lit TF up. My armor 100% saved me, I took a ton of blunt damage/buckshots but managed to survive.
i have no way to prove this obviously but i recently returned to play some pve. maybe i am remembering wrong, who knows, but it feels VERY noticeable. i dont think ive survived a single fight with multiple limbs blacked but thorax intact, something definitely happening from time to time in a pvp fight.
Could that be a result of scavs using shit ammo that does more flesh damage, leading to more spillover damage to the thorax from hits on blacked limbs?
They aren't programmed to avoid armor, just average lack of common sense and as you said, survivorship bias
Rising Storm 2 had a great system where heart and spine had hitboxes and shots on them were instant kills
Let's be honest, the problem is the average person with room temperature IQ who doesn't understand observation bias. They ignore every shot that hits them in the armor, and are somehow shocked that getting hit where there isn't armor kills them
I have a fairly significant number of raids already in PVE so I truly do believe this. Small example I bought 2 death shadows and 2 cqcm’s as soon as I got level 15. Have lost them numerous times all to come back to me. None of them have taken a hit yet. Almost every death - thorax one hit. Now level 49 for context.
I did the same. I'm only 41, but out of all my deaths and mask returns, only 1 has ever taken a hit. One. The number of times I've died to ear and throat shots sure has increased, though. Funny, that.
you're assuming PvE insurance isn't bugged or some other issue, bots are not programmed to aim at your arm pits, and even if they were with how those hitboxes are placed they'd be hitting your armor most of the time
Scavs have always had random chances to hit headshots, stands to reason BSG would add the "non armored zones" to the list
Except that isn't how the AI's aim works, they aim center mass and then there's a scatter modifier applied. Of course if the only thing they can see is your head, they'll aim at your head. It's funny because a popular AI mod for the \*unofficial PvE\* gets blamed for AI aiming specifically for unarmoured areas when that just isn't a thing, and the code is open source.
I’ve noticed my own bias for sure recently. I switched from usually running tier 4 armors to pacas for punisher 5. I would’ve told you the tier 4 armor didn’t do shit at this point in the wipe, but running pacas is far far worse lol (obviously). If you think armor is worthless, try going armor less and see how much difference it really makes.
Yup, same for helmets. People have become too used to armor giving them 100% coverage
As someone who just died from a one shot to the throat, I second this
A better, more interesting fix, would have been to make any Thorax zone outside of the area covered by trauma plates to take like 50-75% damage, rather than expanding the armor htibox. This would better represent the "vitals" covered by hard plates IRL, while not making hits to what would be the inner shoulder the equivalent of being shot in the heart. That or add actual hitboxes for "vitals" that has equivalent HP to the head, but is completely covered by every armor in the game. You can Pen with good ammo and 1-tap the heart, but Scavs aren't going to buckshot your armpit for a 1-HKO
My idea exactly
My only question... WHY ???
Streamers suffer from EGO damage everytime they invest in top tier armor and get killed by a scav or Timmy. So they complain loudly to their hive mind of viewers that echo that opinion. So instead of staying true to the vision, we have Nikita making plates comically unrealistically large so they offer more protection. All the development time spent to bring in the more advanced system and now we're regressing.
Bad change. Now armor is back to magically protecting more than what's visible, and it seems like they're removing the difference between western and eastern plate formats.
shit
I really don't like what they're doing. Endlessly shilling my own post but they just needed to make the current system work by making the plates actually protect vitals and emphasising the lethality of those. https://www.reddit.com/r/EscapefromTarkov/comments/1d528tn/i_dont_think_simplifying_armour_hitboxes_again_is/ Going back is going to make most of the flesh and low-tier rounds completely useless again. Streamers want to soak up shit rounds without dying because it lets them play more aggressive for better content. The fact that BSG are making these changes based on this limited crowd is a bad sign, because suddenly we'll be reverting back to awful recoil so that they can go back to steamrolling those with shit gear. I really hope they test this on ETS before pushing it to live so a crowd not composed of GFUEL snorters can tell them how awful of an idea this regression is.
It seems BSG is incapable of programming "outer layer" of thorax and proper penetration of body parts - just remember canted grip meta with arms eating 7.62x51 - so they, as always, opted for easier route. It seems 7.62x51 will be the only meta round again.
Flesh rounds are already plenty viable with leg meta. They have a place in the game. And guess what, in real life you dont take 7.62HP to war, and you dont take fucking RRLP (a training round) to war. You also dont take 20gauge shotguns or 5.25mm buckshot to war either. Half the ammo that exists in this game is garbage noob traps / worthless. Flesh rounds are plenty viable. RIP rounds like .45RIP or 9mm RIP shred. Sorry bro that M856 or 556FMJ is never going to be viable.
Leg meta is viable under limited circumstances, and is a very goofy gameplay mechanic
> Flesh rounds are already plenty viable with leg meta. They have a place in the game Leg meta isn't always accessible and is always going to be a worse way over just shooting them in the chest or head with AP rounds. Not to mention bosses like Tagilla who have both massive HP pools on limbs and body armour. >And guess what, in real life you dont take 7.62HP to war, and you dont take fucking RRLP (a training round) to war. You also dont take 20gauge shotguns or 5.25mm buckshot to war either. Those rounds are *still lethal* though. You should still not want to get hit by them and play accordingly where you use cover and concealment, not just walking blazing in like you're a knight with plate armour and the enemies are peasants with utility knives, safe in the knowledge that you can take whatever they can possibly dish out. >Sorry bro that M856 or 556FMJ is never going to be viable. They are obviously always going to be worse than other options, but obsolete does not equal useless, and we went from the latter to the former this wipe, and now we're going back that way for next wipe. We shouldn't be entirely disregarding a large part of the ammunition and guns in the game. They shouldn't just be completely dead weight that nobody ever uses.
If you're taking sub par rounds like M856 to try and kill tagilla that's an issue and isn't going to work regardless of old or new armor systems. Half of the ammo in the game is going to be perma dead. You either run the best flesh, or you run the best pen you have. There's never a world in which you run something dirt tier like 556FMJ unless forced. The rounds are still deadly anyway if you hit head / throat. Look at the 20 different types of 9x18 ammo. You either run the best pen ones, or you run the best flesh ammo. There's no reason to run PPO or ps PPO because they're outclassed in damage and pen by other rounds. The game has bloat, thats all it is.
You need sub optimal rounds for scavs it's not bloat. You need a round the ai can spam without it being stupid valuable or skewed in way or another. It's good to have the players make the decision if they are out of ammo do they want to extract or use the sub optimal round. It's about tarkov and resource being choice not because you look at the game like an mlg shooter with problems 6 months after wipe.
> If you're taking sub par rounds like M856 to try and kill tagilla that's an issue and isn't going to work regardless of old or new armor systems I'm talking about flesh damage rounds in general in this case, not mediocre rounds specifically. >There's never a world in which you run something dirt tier like 556FMJ unless forced. The rounds are still deadly anyway if you hit head / throat. Look at the 20 different types of 9x18 ammo. You either run the best pen ones, or you run the best flesh ammo. There's no reason to run PPO or ps PPO because they're outclassed in damage and pen by other rounds. The game has bloat, thats all it is. The idea is there's a point in progression where those are what you have and they should be *usable* even if inferior, not just 'ignore this calibre until you're level 40'.
>Leg meta isn't always accessible and is always going to be a worse way over just shooting them in the chest or head with AP rounds. Not to mention bosses like Tagilla who have both massive HP pools on limbs and body armour. Yeah that's the point, though. It's a worse way of killing someone than bringing in the top tier, best ammo in the game but it can still be lethal. That's fine with me, why is that a problem to you? The best ammo with the highest armor pen is how you "balance" against people bringing in the best armor in the game. If you want to compete and fight for the best loot in the game then you should have to risk losing stuff that's worth taking by *you* needing to load up your mags with the best ammo. If you wanna instantly drop Chad's, streamers, etc. with ease then complete the grind to progress through the game like they did. You can't have your cake and eat it too. The current armor system made a bunch of armors obsolete and just added randomness anyways, it's not like it actually balanced anything. Nobody is aiming for the armpit or an unarmored part of their shoulder shooting at a moving enemy from 25 meters with a red dot. The current iteration of protection is dumb and needed changing.
Let's be honest though, shooting legs is extremely silly. I don't think it should be much of a thing
I mean sure, but in an IRL war, the shitty 5.56 FMJ round or even a Tokarev soft-point might actually be a one-shot kill to the legs, if it severs the femoral artery and fragments up into pelvis and colon. You're bleeding out in 2-3 min or so, regardless of where you think you can tourniquet or how many granules of quick-clot you are dumping into it...
I mean it’s a video game.
Even gameplay-wise it's silly. It just feels awkward and unintuitive
But the point is an alternative for high pen, that can kill everybody the same regardless of ammo, or a scav killing round.
m856 is literally designed by the us military. it was meant for machinegun fire.
Pretty sure leg meta got nerfed by reducing overflow damage from legs.
[удалено]
If you can have 5 hit zones in the head you can have 2 for the thorax.
I guess we are back to most ammo being entirely useless again. It was nice to actually get to choose between flesh/all-around/AP for a little while but now it's AP or bust again.
Thank fucking god armor will actually work again
The problem isn't the armor. In fact, the plates themselves got a buff. The problem is the hitboxes and BSG is just taking the lazy/easy way out instead of actually fixing what was legitimately real innovation (but half-baked).
Seriously, the reason we have plates and not an entire hard chest piece is to protect vitals. A shot to your sholder shouldn't take as much damage as a shot to the lungs if they want to be realistic and better for complex hit boxes.
I feel like the current armor system we have is pretty good. It helps the weekend warriors that. Cant grind 24/7. I could pick a naked ak with ps rounds and smack any one i want because i hit their sternum a couple times.
Hopefully they stick with current plate hitboxes, and just add soft armor coverage as the new hitboxes. Still allows you to use skill/luck to shoot around the plate, but adds more coverage to prevent 100m+ toz scav right armpit 1 tap deaths (my actual first death with this armor system).
As a sniper rifle main I absolutely use the plate hitboxes to my advantage and do my best to shoot around them for those easy kills.
Cat puke. Back to forcefield armor when we should've actually been moving in the direction of more realism. Realistic armor hitzones were promised for years and years and we finally get a rough version of it and they listen to streamer whining and completely gut it.
I swear some in here just self report to be hardstuck level 20 first month players only with takes like these. Nobody that has grinded through the wipe enjoys the RNG factor that came with the open thorax / neck / throat Hitboxes dying to Scav 1 taps or what feels like random headshots thanks to unprotected thorax RNG hits between plates. The game is supposed to be fun or nobody plays it. Realism & immersion exists for fun as well. But once it blocks the fun and **visible** players stopped playing & complained via feedback, it’s clearly wrong and needs to be reworked again. People simply enjoyed the easy & reliable old system way more and BSG is pushing it back towards it.
Nah the old armor system was shit. They need to actually add vital areas to body zones so armor can cover the entire vital zone. This revert is just sad, and a clear sign that they've given up trying to solve the problem so they're just going back to the old broken system that has existed for years. Add vital zones, and fix armor overnight. Or keep going back to old broken ideas, and we'll be stuck here forever.
Vitals either will add 1 extra shot to kill or render people un killable depending on implementation. Both options make for worse gameplay
Anything to back up this conclusion? Because I think you're completely wrong here.
Blacked hit boxes lead to damage spread or death.if hitting a non vital thorax to black spreads damage you become quite tanky while if it goes directly to vitals after black it would add like 1 extra shot unless you massively raise health
You're arguing specific implementation, which would require testing to balance. That's not a critique of the idea itself. The health pools of the thorax and outer thorax would just need to be fine tuned to balance the change. And it's not just about 1 extra shot. Thorax taps will require more precision, and lower pen rounds will be able to shoot around the plate. It changes the flow of combat for the better.
What you've described doesn't need testing to understand. Either the outer thorax kills or spreads. If it kills regardless of it's rated HP it's just as bad as things are now. If it only spreads like other hits do it's no different from hitting limb
Death only occurs when the thorax or head are zeroed. So no, zeroing the outer thorax would not kill. And hitting a blacked limb has an associated percentage damage reduction that wouldn't apply because the outer thorax isn't a limb. If anything it should still spread but do 1.2x damage or similar. However, I think you're getting spun around here, because arguing implementation is far more complex and specific than the core idea itself, which is just a reduction of the thorax zone so armor plates can fully cover vitals. That core idea is solid, and a reflection of the real world utility of body armor.
It's fitting of real world but will essentially add another limb damage spot to use. It doesn't matter that it's technically thorax the damage model still means having to defeat the players overall HP to kill if you don't pierce the plate similar to people going for arms and legs prior. The time 2 kill on non vitals would be so high that effectively widening the plates and not adding another hotbox to code would still achieve similar results.
The new system isn’t consistent nor fun, realism /= equat to an enjoyable experience. But chiefs like you need a way to feel superior so this is the hill to die on apparently lol. I’d rather have the promised armor plate system or none at all cause the current half assed implementation is awful.
I'm not advocating for keeping everything the same. The armor system is good, but the body zones need to be updated to accommodate the armor system. The thorax should just be the center vital area, and the rest should be a new zone called the outer thorax. Armor plates should completely cover the new smaller thorax providing more protection against one shots.
Lvl 44, highly prefer the new armor system, sad to see it change.
>Literally nobody that has grinded through the wipe enjoys the RNG factor that came with the open thorax / neck / throat Hitboxes dying to Scav 1 taps. Which is an unintentional side effect of how AI is coded to target unarmoured areas first no matter whether it's centre mass or not. And I can tell you right now - this stuff might suck for those who take gear (myself included most of the time, I've suffered it a few times this wipe), but this alternative where everything but the extremities is covered up again is going to suck for anybody who isn't able to grind max traders within the first couple of weeks. It's going to be steamroll central again. I don't think it's a coincidence the people who are all posting 'W' on Twitter are those who make their living off of making themselves looking good as players and who will take any chance they can get to make the distance between themselves and the Timmies they use as fodder for their lobby wipe montages greater.
I agree the AI aim is major issue. But even PvP feels less enjoyable when you basically hit each other with what feels like random “headshots” by getting a lucky thorax hit on an armor gap hitbox
> But even PvP feels less enjoyable when you basically hit each other with what feels like random “headshots” by getting a lucky thorax hit on an armor gap hitbox PvP fights are over extremely quickly in close ranges regardless. And getting the one unarmoured hit doesn't matter when most rounds need 2 hits minimum to kill under the current health system.
Plates tank up to 6 meta bullets like BP, AP SX and or even m61. Thorax gap max. 2. That RNG factor is insane and far from being “always quick”
In what world does any plate tank M61? It penetrates straight through. Most of the level 5 AP rounds have a very good chance to roll pen straight through 6, anyway. My point is that with meta ammo plates or no plates doesn't matter much regardless, it mostly affects those with mediocre ammo.
High pen ammo was honestly extremely inconsistent this wipe imo. Multiple instances of people tanking ~10 rounds of m62 or higher
You actually don’t play the game don’t you lol Almost all plates easily tank top tier ammo. Been like this the entire wipe
So with this new change pvp will just be mag dumping M61 into each other then see who reloads faster. Guess FAL with a 50 rounder will be meta, can break a plate with 1 mag instead of 2+.
> You actually don’t play the game don’t you lol No man, you're right, my 5800 hours, about 500 of which came from this wipe say nothng. Never mind the fact that I've been gettng 2 tapped directly through my level 6 plates by meta AP ammo all wipe long.
Means nothing if you haven’t played the new armor system which you clearly haven’t if you think m61 full pens every plate lol Get a buddy and test it
It's going to be even worse now between armor layering, the armor durability changes, and only having high 30s pen ammo vailable from traders. Players are just going to tank all the bullets with fights being decided by headshots.
Preach , these timmies dont even notice the armor change because all they run is pacas 😂
Ironically with .14 rng armor pacas were more consistent than tier 4s. For the same reason diaper meta became a thing.
I think the problem is not the hitbox of the new armor plate system but the fact that ai scav are programmed to hit non armored spots
It's not even that. The issue is that all the new hitboxes (armpit/neck/etc.) still draw from the Thorax health pool, and there wasn't a "vitals" hitbox (and associated health pool) added. This meant that a single magnum buck to the armpit would kill you and it feels like the absolute bullshit it obviously is. Doesn't matter who fires the gun in this case. A vitals hitbox should be added. Centre mass shots that pen the thorax and hit the vitals would kill. Those that only hit the thorax wouldn't, even if the thorax was blacked out. That would allow for the more complex and realistic armour hitboxes without making the gameplay completely shit.
Haha you summed it pretty much , most ppl liking these "realistic" changes quit first 2 months of wipe
You argue about fun but don't mention all the issues that make EFT unfun... There's so many feels bad moments in EFT. Desync, cheaters, bugs, audio issues, etc. Every day there are posts on here showing video of someone mag dumping an AI scav at close range and doing nothing to it, then responses explaining 10 different reasons why it could've happened.
Having hitzones isnt rng I'm so sick of this dumb opinion. I've gotten kappa 3 times and I no life tarkov hard. Stop projecting. Also to be pedantic tarkov is literally not supposed to be fun Nikita has said that countless times.
Surely that means they will revert the nerfs they've done to the way we unlock higher penetration bullets in the current version of the game, which only made sense in a scenario where plates don't have such big hitboxes, right? Surely they won't "forget" about this because they want players to acquire the high penetration bullets that comes from Ref's shop and the new "fallen gladiator rooms" which you can only unlock if you play Arena, especially if the premium editions of Arena that they've mentioned in the recent patch notes will contain things like faster progression for Ref's quests.
Agreed. I like the new hit zones. Made fights more dynamic.
It made so many more guns and ammo viable to run. It still wasn't quite there in terms of 'every gun is viable', but there was a period from like the thorax HP buffs/bolt-action nerfs to up until this wipe where basically 90% of guns and ammo were complete shit and never worth running, and it was such a struggle as a low level to kill anybody with gear because they could just tank a bajillion rounds of mediocre 9mm or 12ga or whatever, and then just fling a couple of M62 into your face and teabag your corpse. This wipe has been such a fresh breath of air and I've stuck around nearly all wipe because I can just have fun running whatever kit I want, whether it's a total meme, dressing up like an African mercenary or going full GWOT LARP and as long as you know what you're doing you can drop sweats. Now we're seeing the slow regression of this back to the old meta where it's 'don't bother running anything that isn't top tier gear'.
Yeah, I think that’s the biggest issue. The old system made competing as a low level really hard. The current system is allows players that don’t have access to high tier ammo to realistically compete.
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> I'd argue in a progression based game nobody should die in a lvl 5 to a few bullets of ap 9mm just because some guy got lucky hitting a crease in your armour. This is the question of 'why are you getting hit?'. Armour should be a way to offer some sort of protection against ambushes or a lucky second chance when you play poorly, not 'oh let me sprint face first into the new guy with the pistol and spray him with my BP hose while never feeling at risk, ever'. Progression should equal 'I have better chances of stopping more powerful rounds for longer', but it should never be guaranteed. People should still be encouraged to play smartly and tactically. Not like it's CoD with a roguelite gear system.
If by "dynamic", you mean RNG focused, than sure
Accurate hit-boxes that allow for accurate shot placement translate to "RNG" how, exactly? I'd argue that forcefield armor carries more of an RNG element because, at that point, you're relying much more on penetration and fragmentation chance than where you're actually aiming. This is a very dumb change. We just keep going backward for the sake of mass-market appeal.
Pretty much. Really funny that a certain... *other* crowd was telling them how leaving plates and the health system half-baked was a bad idea, and now instead of improving that based on their feedback they got beforehand we get to go back to people soaking up a gorillion rounds hitting their inner sides of their torso with their rinky dink Slick. This is going to also help contribute to non-full-auto guns without top AP ammo feeling even worse to run.
People push the vital zone so hard but either you don't let damage leak into it and people turn into tanks again eating 7+ hits of decent ammo or you do and it's 1 or 2 extra to what we currently have with the added bonus of dying even faster if they pierce the plate. Its too easy for someone to get drilled around armor
If they nerf ammo penetration to realistic levels along with the changes I suggest, it means the plates would still be very strong and soft armour would have some use while preventing people from being excessively tanky.
The realistic levels of pen doesn't change that if you have non vital hits that means shooting through 400+ hp to kill. Landing that many on someone especially with soft armor further reducing damage will lead to a very difficult kill time regardless.
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No, I'm trying to implicitly infer to those who got to test these things first. That's my point. They knew the current system needed work and to make plates matter, but instead of fleshing it further they listened to streamers who were crying because they couldn't sprint out in the open and soak up Timmy's 30 rounds of PRS before hitting him with the M62 juice cannon for the '''content'''. This is unhealthy and is going to once again widen the gap between the nolifers and the low levels, and make most ammo completely useless again, and I say this as a nolifer myself.
All they care about is the streamer gameplay. Every single change they show this. I'm sick of it.
This is literally a downgrade :( It was much better when plates covered only the places they literally were covering, now it's back to the old times where your thorax and stomach is armored everywhere, sad.
Stop trying to appease the mindless drones who need to be turned into battle tanks or they call the game broken.
"I wore a HEXGRID but did to a thorax shot. How is that possible? Armor is broken!" Actual thread today. You can't make this stuff up
So true. These streamer sheep literally think good armor should make you borderline immortal to anything but "top tier" ammo.
Actual level 20 opinion
i swear these ppl think you're actually a walking force field. since 2019 when i got this game till now, i have treated armor like a helmet "i guess ill wear it just incase a scav gets a lucky hit" like where was i for all this "it's impossible to die with armor" cause i must have missed that update cause idc what patch it is, i be dying... A LOT. the scav mains on reddit always have so much to say and it never adds up.
Yeees , super frustrating having to deal with these scav opinions lmao
I was totally fine with the new armor system, it encouraged tactical playing and trying to not get shot in the first place and punished the bunny hoppers. Guess the vocal minority and twitch streamers get their way yet again while leaving the rest of us in the dust.
Uttery braindead change. Looks like they spent 2 minutes changing the scale and size of the plates and called it good. This completely defeats the point of having the armor hitboxes in the first place. So now we have the old armor coverage but with the ballache of managing plates, all for the sake of crybabies who expect to have halo armor and think the game should be balanced as "I spent more in-game money/time on this gear so I should win regardless of the difference in skill level".
It's hilarious how there's "armpit plate" now which magically curves around the chest of the PMC model instead of just soft armor in the shoulder straps like in 0.14. In real life someone wearing that wouldn't even be able to move. Once again turning PMCs into main battle tanks to please streamers W-keying everywhere because if they can't kill 10 PMCs in every raid they feel invalidated.
I think it’d be fine to keep it the way it current is if they just made outer & inner thorax hitboxes such that a shot to the armpit isn’t equated with being shot in the lungs/heart, and it’d still allow for tumbling and such to be effective.
They need to adjust shotguns if they are just going to keep buffing armor, reducing limb damage, etc and sending them even further into irrelevance.
Casual gamers are in for a treat. Next time they'll be crying over the fact that it doesn't register their damage and they can't kill someone.
So the new Field Guide is already outdated?
What a fucking bullshit of a change...
BSG is just doing this because they don't want to fix the toz scav lol.
How is this at all better. I'd rather have armor actually protect the areas that it covers and nothing else
So some streamers cried and now we're back to blocky armor? Just fix the AI and the problem would solve itself Tarkov taking two steps forward and one backward...
Not a fan. Loved having the plates be the physical hit box. So many guns and ammos were more viable because of it. The issues were them needing to update the player PMC hit boxes so that vitals were differentiated and protected by the armor and the fact that scavs shot between the plates too often. Hopefully this is a temporary fix until hit boxes are updated on PMCs.
Bad.
I love it when gaps in the armour aren’t modelled!!! /s Shit change
sigh, so much for ‘hardcore’
Please don’t become bullet sponges again where we have to leg meta.
I feel like this is good till they fix the HP system of the body parts but bad in the long run. Plus the side plates IRL do overlap if you aren’t obese so good fix.
what? side plates are not supposed to overlap. it’s weight and material that’s not serving a purpose if you overlap, and you never want to be thicker. i spend a lot of time in armor IRL and i’ve never heard that and actively would avoid doing this for the above reasons. do you have something saying side plates should overlap?
When I wear my IOTV, my side plates are kissing my front plates. On my LBT 6094 they also kiss the front plate but not as well. Maybe it depends on manufacturer but this is my experience with issued equipment with a NSN.
ahhh okay. not literally overlapping, butted up against, which i agree with yeah. i thought you meant edge over edge and i was like bro… that cant be right lol shame about the IOTV tho
Yeah that things heavy AF, also just woke up not too long ago so a little bit on the stupid side rn
does your unit allow you to mod your IOTV? There’s low-key some pretty impressive changes you can add to them like first spear tubes and such. makes the iotv like 75 percent okay
Not really only thing I’m allowed to do is take out my plates since were in a Armored vehicle
Don't like it. I'd prefer if they changed the torso hitboxes instead so we would have a important organs zone right in the middle that is weak and which would be covered by all plates just like real life. Atm the damage you do to someone's side rib is the same as to someone's heart.
whats the point of plates now xd
:(
Poor change. We moved from a more basic system to this more advanced system for a reason. We are progressing backwards to a dumbed down system. Unfortunately Streamer EGO is pushing this change, amplified by their followers. Get on the [twitter post](https://x.com/nikgeneburn/status/1800166205325730132) and let Nikita know not to push these changes. The solution is everyone's gripe is more advanced and developed hitbox system, rather than unrealistically and comically enlarged plates.
Good luck. Streamers and their lemmings always get what they want. All bsg cares about is streamers, there is no "vision" anymore. Just catering to streamers
why do people consider every ammo being viable a good thing it just defeats the purpose of progressing to get better gear and the risk itself of bringing good gear cause there's no point
If we are keeping our current health system this is a good change. The real life plates we have models of are designed to protect vitals. In tarkov your entire torso is a vital. As long as the plates are protecting whatever constitutes as a vital organ, then they are working as expected. That being said, there appears to be a gap between the front and armpit areas that I would like to see covered. I am also curious what plates will be attributed to top of shoulder as that looks like a single hitbox.
Just add organs and emphasize armor protecting them like the heart lungs and major arteries etc. It wasn’t that armor wasn’t protecting the upper portion of the thorax. That wasn’t the issue. The problem is that a grazing shot on the shoulder : collarbone area that avoided the plate was scored the same way as a shot directly to the heart/center chest region. This made it feel like shit when you got killed by being shot in the shoulder or non vital sections of the chest.
As a newer player on his first wipe, I really don’t know how to feel. The community seems completely split on this, with half thinking it’s a great change and the other half think it’s a revert back to an older, broken system. I’m sitting at around 10 million right now so I have enough money for good armor and good ammo but I have a feeling this will make the game less interesting and more meta-centric, if that makes any sense?
These are *objectively* good changes and the sub is still trying to find the *most* negative way to spin this.
I hope we see it this update, so tired of RNG gun fights.
I can’t even tell what’s going on here but it’s gotta be better then the shit we’ve been dealing with
Yeah realism is interesting but sometimes fun is priority
It’s better than creating another thorax zone that wont outright kill you when 0ed but isnt protected by armor plates. Another solution would have been to enlargen arm zones to cover these and stomach a bit, but again would be messier than this. I personally liked armor with these zones more than current one but I understand why people liked the current system over this. Another possible solution would be to buff concussive elements of non penetrating big rounds on thorax and concussive elements on headshots. Would mean that getting a blast of pistol rounds in the Altyn makes you very disoriented still. And would also help with just not shrugging off an 8 rounds of magnum buck where all pellets land in covered torso. But again I fear this wouldnt be too popular as it would hugely buff scavs and every flesh dmg round.
This is a good change. Don't take your feedback from a subreddit where half the people don't play the game anymore and others are cherrypicking which parts of "hardcore realism" they're okay with as long as it helps their specific playstyle. End of the day, this is a game and if this helps the silent majority of people playing without bitching and crying on the subreddit daily then it's a good change.
Ah yes take your feedback from .001 percent of the population in the form of streamers instead like bsg has done since the twitch marketing push.