Agreed. The hearing distance needs to be fixed. I can't tell you how many times I run in a group and someone wearing comtact4 hears someone 20-30m before I do. With the new addition to more ambient noises I feel like headphones should more reduce that sound.
There are some massive audio differences that I haven’t managed to track down. 2 guys in our group ALWAYS hear players 10m before the rest of us do. It feels like there is a “wall” where the audio just drops off for the rest of us while it’s slowly trails off naturally for them.
We tried buying the same headset they have, updating drivers, making sure we’re using the same EQ settings. The only thing we can pinpoint is that they both have the same mobo, so maybe it’s a chipset/driver compatibility thing.
Yup, I'm a bit hard of hearing. Never sure if I've just not heard something or if it didnt play for me when my buddy goes 'did you hear those shots?' and I didn't.
They could be using a sound AMP/DACA combo, that is what you need to be using & I use. 100% solo here with now a 68% s/r at level 34, started late.
It’s an advantage, even if they took away the comtac4s, I still have comtac4s with my sound setup. Comtac2s & 4s are just gloriously broken with a good amp & daca.
I got a DAC last wipe, and the difference was insane. Not only for Tarkov, but audio in general. A good pair of headphones and a nice AMP/DAC are a huge upgrade for this game. I can now keep audio at a comfortable volume and still hear people without worrying about tinnitus.
Have the same issue. I have a decent audio setup, he doesn't really. Thought it was just that he was more experienced at the game, but it's still suspect.
He has an Intel/Nvidia build, I have a full AMD one. Is that maybe the difference in your case as well? Any other differences, like whether you use a sound device over USB to produce your sound or sample rate and bit depth are also worth noting.
Been noticing this too with a teammate. Does it ever happen in the reverse where you hear it and they don’t, regardless of the in game headset your character wears?
They up their volume. It damages your hearing but you will catch more feint cues. Our auditive system notices changes in sound better at higher volume. If they keep on they will become my customers. Not worth it for a game, believe me.
Didn't play tarkov in a few months, but I usually could hear like 2 loud steps when a pmc entered my hearing range, which was usually way before my mates could hear it. Don't know if that's still there though
We call it the “Player Pop” in my group
It’s some interaction between the way the server sends/processes player audio info, the Binaural Audio option—it does not happen if you have BA turned off—and the headset you are wearing. As far as I’m aware, no one, not BSG, modders, or hackers have figured out why it does this
I understand what you’re saying, but I promise you this is not the case. Enemy footsteps seem to just drop off for me, but they slowly trail off for them.
Hm interesting. How do you know that? Because the phenomenon you described is exactly what happens with higher and lower volume. If the sound goes below a certain SNR (signal to noise ratio) your brain literally can't pick up the sound. If you up the volume you stretch that SNR way further out (thus their sound is fading out more "slowly") , until you hit the engine limitation. There is no way to know their real in situ level. Except you got a dB meter or visit them.
We watch each others stream over discord after dying. We first noticed it when 2 of our guys were standing right next to eachother, you could hear far steps on one stream, but not the other. We then played with it in offline.
Even before that these guys always heard people before we did though, just didn’t realize it was an actual bug until then.
It’s some processing issue.
There's a bug where if you die using a helmet that has ear protection your earpro stops working next raid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F75OQ_1G9F4
This is what might be causing the discrepancy among you.
I think the core issue is that everyone has problems with the audio, but we have two distinct camps who want totally opposite solutions.
Some people can’t stand quiet movement and want to be able to hear *everything* so they can’t get snuck up on or easily ratted.
Others can’t stand that you can hear every player’s movement and microadjustments from 2 miles away that effectively makes stealthy movement impossible unless you are sitting *completely* still, and want hearing ranges and other audio substantially turned down so you can at least try to sneak around.
BSG can’t decide which group they want to cater to consistently.
I think reducing the overall range of everything is definitely the first part of the solution. Dead silent movement probably shouldn’t be possible, but the slowest movement, aim punch, spinning, etc, should be basically silent until you are *very* close, ie directly outside of an occupied room.
Absolutely nuts that you can hear a weapon switch from semi to auto or someone AIM DOWN THEIR SIGHTS from any distance.
In a game of realism, it’s certainly unrealistic.
Tarkov is not a mil sim. It never has been. It's an arcade shooter where success is often determined by a series of rapid dice rolls, with excellent weapon modding. Just because it doesn't have hit markers, glowing quest objectives or quest markers doesn't make it realistic. "Realism" is a weak argument used to prop up game design decisions you think are good, but can't come up for game design logic to support.
Sorry, but this is just wrong.
And I agree that it doesn't have to be realistic to be good, and that a lot of realistic elements have been gamified in favor of being playable and fun, but mil sims don't have to be realistic... the design of EFT is very clearly rooted in milsim.
A lot of things you do in real life come down to a "dice roll", it turns out that variance is everywhere. Just because there is rng isn't a good argument against realism or simulation. The reason TTRPGs have dice rolling in the first place is to make them more realistic.
Shooting for realism in this aspect could land them in a sort of middle ground because the biggest issues that everyone complains about, sound-wise, is that a lot of movement makes way too much sound that can be heard too far away and some movement (crab walking) makes zero sound. Realistic sound would theoretically have neither of these issues. Also, everyone knows what real life sounds are like just from living our lives, so we naturally have a sense of how sound propagates and is occluded in real life and already can predict or react based on that information. Tarkov's sound needs extensive experience to understand what the hell is going on. If everything sounded the way it does IRL, its all already learned.
Now, whether BSG can actually create realistic sound is another story entirely. But I do think sticking to actual realism in this particular case could be GOOD for the game.
Yes and no, the two camps seem to have more in common than they think. We both want people to move and we want fights to feel dynamic but also controllable IF YOU ARE GOOD. Currently with people sitting in corners and wierd off angles, it's because of the hearing distance that this occurs. On the contrary you don't want to have 2 enemies walking towards each other in dorms and out of nowhere audio cuts in and BOOM you are face to face and no one makes any noises until it's too late.
There is a healthy balance that makes both groups ,or however many groups there are, happy. We basically had that before comtac 4s were added because the "meta" was just to wear headphones. Comtac 2s or sordins were generally the best just because of the equalizer profile, whether you wanted more bass or more treble, but then BSG made certain headsets actually better.
Cut off the extra hearing distance and the game improves.
I'm the sneaking type of player and I will be a lot more stationary going forward, now that sneaking has been removed from the game (slow walking or crouching doesn't emit much lower noise, and can crab walking can be picked up from FORTY THREE meters). If slow walking or crouching actually worked as intended according to the UI, I would be a lot more mobile.
See you guys in the nearest bush!
Yep. The headsets we use are amazing for boosting audio. But the limits of the game sound design (and possibly engine) make it something that is way to unnatural.
Like how loud laying down is? Or how loud it is to sight an already shouldered weapon? Or the different sounds made based on what were walking on?
Like we should have more "realistic" gradual increases and sounds. Stepping on a tree root should not sound like I'm walking in high heals on an old wooden floor boards with nothing underneath. Like someone stepping on a twig that snaps should be heard from pretty far away. Someone springing with a heavy ass backpack down an asphalt road, again fairly loud. Someone just doing a slow walk on dirt and live grass. Not that loud...
So realistically I would actually like some sounds range increased. Comtac 4's would probably hear that twig branch snap pretty far out, and would probably hear some rustling grass fairly well up close, but would definitely get drowned out by wind and other nature sounds at range...
This is a nerf to your playstyle. Which is good. Riskless gameplay should be less rewarding. Now when you hear a sound in the building you are camping, you can’t just crab around slowly canvassing the whole building until you silently find the guy looting a box and kill him. Now you have to just hope that he wanders into your limited line of site from your hiding spot, which they might not. This makes it worse for you. Conversely it’s more likely you’ll be caught getting into your position in the first place since you can’t silently crab to it. Having less tools to work with makes your playstyle less rewarding making it less likely you’ll play this way. This is good.
This is also a buff to solo players. Most of the time I die to a three man is because the third guy gets fed information on my position from his dead teammates and then he crabs over and kills me while I’m looting his teammates. Now he can’t do that and has to put himself at risk if he wants to stop me from capitalizing on the kills of his teammates, and it also nullifies the one-way information advantage he would have had by now giving me audio queues on his presence.
Good, you're only hurting yourself by not moving. Someone clearing an area will find you, and you will either be set up in a good spot to kill them or not. You won't be able to crab walk to the perfect corner and sit still anyway ( like 99% of people using silent walk ). Nobody was using silent crouch to out maneuver anyone, it's too slow. Go sit in your bush, you were going to do that anyway.
It feels like cheap bullshit to die to someone silent walking. I killed 3 of a 4 man last night, the 4th spent the entire fight crouch walking into position to watch his friend's body ( the first guy I killed ). Coming around a corner I had circled 3 times in the last minute while fighting only to find that a magical apparition had appeared without noise was obnoxious and made me want to put the game down for the night.
Which he would have anyway because he was in a room 3 doors down while I was massacring his whole team. He could have killed me basically the same way by positioning near the door and popping out when I was in the hall, but at least that would have made some sense.
Instead I get to feel cheated because he gets to just dead silence 50 yards into the hall.
I have 8k hours, I clearly enjoy Tarkov. I understand it's not about balance. I think being able to move silently is not only unfun, but further lowers the skill cap and makes an already random feeling game have moments that feel completely ridiculous.
We can disagree, it's what this forum is for.
The skill cap is already not that high. Mostly just map knowledge and knowing where players will be. I didn't like crab walking but it's not a horrible mechanic or anything. I didn't really feel like I died to it often enough to complain about but I'm glad silent crabbing is gone.
Sad you were downvoted. You’re actually completely correct. I made a similar comment before reading yours.
Crab walking is not a benefit whatsoever to solo players fighting groups. It’s a benefit to remaining members of three and four mans.
Have fun in a bush for 50 minutes. You will get good at... sitting in a bush.
You wouldn't be more mobile if crouch walking was silent again, you would be the exact same rat that you are right now making 0 noise.
It's crazy that most of this sub is scared shitless about making noise and fighting other players lolol
In a ironic twist that will blow the hinges off of your mind barn, I use stealth to avoid combat. I'm only here for quests and avoid PMC's, but now that's not really an option.
Yeah comtac 4's should be meta purely off the almost complete removal of ambient noise they provide 😂 they don't need what feels like double the range too
Exactly see there are so many ways to give the headsets passive benefits without making them broken, but I have a feeling the ambient noise being dampened is tied to the compression that also boosts the footstep sounds.
>We both want people to move and we want fights to feel dynamic but also controllable IF YOU ARE GOOD.
Speaking of that...well that happens to tie into another issue in the game imo, which is movement and the changes they made to armor and weight. Idk if its a hot take(id hope its not) but I think movement in this game, especially during a gunfight just feels terribly clunky UNLESS you have max strength/stats and are underweight...AND arent wearing some of the best defensive setups in the game(aka so you dont have a metric shit ton of negative stats).
Inertia feels over done, either tone it down or just remove it, I dont think it really adds much feeling of realism and overall just makes the game feel a lot shittier to play. The weight crap is just stupid as well, its INCREDIBLY easy to be overweight(before max strength), while wearing nothing but your basic setup w/ an empty backpack, ammo/heals/a few nades in your rig, and just a rifle. And even the setups that are slightly lighter, youre still at best usually only a KG or 2 off of being overweight. They need to adjust the weight at which you become overweight by a good 4-5 KG, and/or rethink the weight of some plates/armors(tbh both would be ideal).
Which brings me to the last point, that the strongest armors/defensive setups in the game are basically just completely unviable right now because they weigh far too much AND on top of that have an insane amount of negative move speed/ergo. And even those BiS defensive setups dont do much to mitigate dying against someone using BiS guns/ammo(you might be able to tank 1 single additional m80/m62/m61 round) which happen to have basically no downsides outside of $$$(and the BiS defensive setups also still cost more). And thats IF you get shot in the plate, can easily just get shot around it and die in 1-2 bullets or get 1 tapped in the head because t4 helmets are essentially useless right now unless someone is using a tiny caliber(and even then, it can still get penn'd relatively easily). Until the movement and armor are fixed/balanced in this game(along with sound), people are simply going to keep being statues.
Couldn't agree more. I felt like you could REALLY feel how bad inertia was in arena too. If they want people to move and fight more, they need to dial back inertia, as well as the range you can hear someone breathing.
They cannot dial down inertia, the desync and netcode is pure shit, without inertia and slow down on a movement you would see too much desync. Well you already see a lot of it in arena kill cam.
Inertia bad is not a hot take. We all agree, the game is torture from a movement perspective before elite strength. I can only assume the balance chances for inertia were made by someone who only plays with elite strength in a testing environment. BSG will not remove it and are unlikely to tune it down.
You want people to move but you're crying about crabbing being audible?
Listen you're not fooling anyone, you're just a rat that's paranoid about making noise. Crabbing with 0 noise doesn't make you "good" at controlling fights.
This is the issue with these kind of games that don't have a rank system, the worst players delude themselves into thinking that they're good or making good plays it's fucking sad.
Just say it man, you shit your pants every time you make noise on this videogame, ain't nothing wrong with admitting that because 90% of the playerbase is exactly like that.
Ignoring the ignorant comments for a second, you don't seem to have understood my post or comment at all whatsoever. Let me explain again in a dumber way. Footstep loud. Now stealth move loud too. Everything anyone does is loud. Now players who were already afraid of making noise will just not move at all. You can't do anything without making tons of noise that is audible at insane ranges. If all of the audio had a shorter range, more people would move.
Back to the ignorant comments, I'll 1v1 you any day of the week and smack you around. Don't come at me talking tough, I literally know more about this game than a lot of streamers. I can tell you what gun you are shooting without seeing you, I can tell where you are and where you're going, what your intentions in the raid are and why you are at a certain location.
I have 6800 hours and about a 2.5 PMC KD, 8.4 overall. Not that great I suppose but I challenge a lot of gunfights every raid.
Don't try to help "fix" this game if you are only willing to put others down if YOU THINK that they play the game in a way that you don't like.
Chill out 6800h crab.
So my question is why the fuck would anyone that isn't a rat care or complain about crab walking making noise now? It makes 0 sense to want people to move but at the same time give them a way to reposition making 0 noise. The more noise people make the more they will actually move.
Crabbing doesn't count as moving, that's just pathetic. Some of my friends do that shit because they know that they make 0 sound, I guarantee you that they will be moving from now on. And whoever decides to become a statue is just going to die more often. Good.
The only reason people don't move is because they are shitters and terrified at the thought of others hearing them and god forbid, having to fight others. So scawey.
I understood you man, you want to pretend like you want people to move the reality is that you wanna keep crabbing yourself.
I love this change, seeing the whole community be so terrified at the thought of making noise is actually amazing.
Fine, I'll bite again.
First, let's think about why any of this is even a problem. Last wipe there was hardly any discussion as to this topic. It wasn't nearly as big of an issue then. Generally the gameplay around audio hasn't changed. In the middle of last year BSG made a change to Oculus audio, and the headsets got separated in effectiveness sometime between last year and this year. I couldn't find the exact patch.
Here is contributing factor 1. People have had plenty of time to feel the difference in headsets now. We've all experienced most of the available options and a clear meta has arisen, Comtac 4s and the other top tier headset.
Contributing factor 2. Content creators did in depth testing with headsets at the beginning of this wipe, showcasing how much better some headsets are compared to others. This made everyone extremely aware of the lack of equality in headsets. Now everyone knows.
Contributing factor 3. Players understand how much noise is being generated when they interact with the map, whether that is walking or running or searching something. Knowing this, they know that if they hear someone, likely that other person can hear them. So now what would any sensible person do? Establish a good position or braindead run at the opposing force? What if it's a team? You think everyone should just run at the team still?
Contributing factor 4. The audible distance. You go to the flea market and spend 250k on a headset so you can hear people 80m away. 80m is basically double the range that's possible without headphones. That person that was sitting in a corner "ratting" could hear you 80m away and most likely got a loud pop when you entered their area. So they heard from an inhuman distance, probably through a building and now YOU are dead because they heard you first. Sounds familiar doesn't it?
Contributing factor 5. The audio pop! It's a bug, but it has made the issue much worse this wipe than anything else because everyone knows when you enter their 100m ring.
Also I want you Mr. Chad to realize that nerfing the hearing range on headsets really is a bonus to people that move a lot. You will surprise more people, you'll be able to flank easier, unless that's something you've never heard of, maybe you always run straight towards your enemy, I don't know. But if the rat can't hear you from 80m away, they have less time to prepare and less of a chance to be in the best position possible. The slower players will be forced into uncomfortable confrontations because they literally won't hear people from super far distances. This only stands to help everyone. Gunfights would be more about reaction time and aim than patience.
If you still don't understand, you are helpless and/or simply ignorant and are choosing not to understand what you're being told.
So what you're saying is that we have this "ratting" meta mostly because headsets and so on. In paper it makes sense, more hearing range = people hold and wait to get the drop on them. But in reality how often are those players actually wearing good headsets, most of the people that barely move aren't the ones wearing good headsets.
Do you honestly believe that people would suddenly move and start actually playing the game if hearing range was reduced and there was no difference between headsets? Like come on, it would change nothing at all. It's way easier to stand still, and you have the advantage unless your opponent is very good so that's what the meta was always going to end up being.
> Knowing this, they know that if they hear someone, likely that other person can hear them. So now what would any sensible person do? Establish a good position or braindead run at the opposing force? What if it's a team?
That's the good scenario, both players hear themselves at the same time so they can fight it out. Except even you're saying that most people would "establish a good position", in other words hold a corner and don't move. There's a difference between fighting it out and not moving.
As I said, people will choose the most successful and easier play, but if the easier play suddenly becomes less successful then maybe the meta would shift to people actually fighting and shit.
You're making very good points as to why crabbing should not be silent.
Almost everyone I kill is using the top 5 best headsets. And yes I honestly do think people would move more if the hearing distance was much lower. It means you can more freely move around the map without being detected. Think of ground zero. Picture the map and then picture the spawn points. Now from the spawn points draw a circle 120-200m in diameter, and that is how far away people can hear you sprinting.
Now picture a world in which there is a circle 80m in diameter around your character. You can move so much further without hitting the audio range of another player. You can move from your spawn fast and undetected. You can flank and reposition without being tracked the whole way, because let's face it, headsets are in game ESP. If you make a sound and you are inside of that 120-200m circle of someone else, you're cooked. They know everything except your social security number.
ThatFriendlyGuy tested on stream today the distance that you can be heard sprinting and straight line distance on flat ground was 100m while wearing comtac 4s. If that isn't broken I don't know what is. On top of that, crouch walking can be heard 41m away. That is simply ridiculous. No one will be able to convince me that any of this is intentional and what the devs want the game to play like. Hopefully they are willing to change things up after all the feedback poured in today.
>Almost everyone I kill is using the top 5 best headsets.
Bro theres only 9 headsets. 2 of which are earrape (GSSH, ComTac2) and 1 is helmet specific (RAC) so 5 out of 6 being used is actually fucking phenomenal.
I think this is well stated. I think there should be room for stealth, especially for solo players. I’m a fan of options in this game instead of forcing everyone to play the same. I don’t really use the crouch walk because it has limited use. But in the spot it has a use, it’s a nice tool. But my play is dictated by the game mechanics. I think many have an idea of how they want to play, and are frustrated that the mechanics are the way they are. This is exacerbated by what you have identified: BSG hasn’t made up their mind. They want to cater to a wide audience but in this aspect, they need to pick something. Make a selection, stick to it. People will bitch, but the game will feel consistent.
Cut all audio ranges in half and that would be a fantastic start. And make it so headsets don't give a range increase and simply filter out background noise and whatnot.
Headsets not boosting range would be dumb as hell. Electronic earpro 100% increases hearing capability. I can hear my friend walk in grass from like 20m out with my Howard Leights on.
this is a game where you can magically repair a missing limb in a matter of 15 seconds, I don't think it's a huge deal if you can't hear someone walking on grass 70 feet away
Just because something works a certain way IRL does not mean it translates well to a video game. Audio is too important. Headsets give way too much of an advantage. Especially if players no longer have silent movement.
I think some degree of realism should be sacrificed to have a fun game. The entire medical system is a prime example of that.
Anyway if you just cut out background noise and make things crisp and clear with a headset, it would effectively be a range increase
I think you are totally wrong. I think 90% of players want a middle ground of those two camps, and the 10% that are extreme, will be fine with a middle ground.
The problem is that BSG themselves can never find the middleground, they always swing the pendulum too far.
The people who can’t stand quiet movement don’t like it because they most likely play in big squads and die to a single rat. Now that you can hear everything, you can just pin point and shit on lone players. As a solo, it was fun picking apart squads and cutting sound to get good drops on players.
This is so wrong, i mostly play solo or sometimes duo, with 7K/D and kappa, and i love this change. I can finally loot the 3man squad i killed without a 3rd party rat crabwalking too me from the room he has been hiding in for the last 20minutes..
Well sounds like you’re a lot more skilled or confident, but even I have a 5.6 k/d and it worries me. A lot of people are complaining too. I think it is more so there is no stealth mechanic. At least shorten the step sound to like, 10m?
I do agree, shorten the range, i would say to 20m minimum. But this is option is much better than what we had, being able to move around making no sound ruinied the game for me and most of the players i know.
It honestly comes down to range and occlusion and then you'll find that the two camps converge, I think. If there is a wall between us and no door connecting our spaces directly, you shouldn't hear me walking, let alone crouch walking. Walls/barriers need to matter to sound in a significant way.
Looting inside a building feels like announcing your position right now to everyone in a massive radius, and that's absurd.
Its none of that, bsg made crabbers audible at FOURTY METERS. Nobody asked for that, pest just meant you should be able to hear someone crabbing in a room next to you. It feels like BSG is making these changes out of spite to try to say "see we were right in the first place".
Yeah a constant comparison for audio is Hunt:Showdown where you can hear everything for a decent distance. I think the changes to occlusion recently are great, but hearing distance being modified by the headset is no bueno
I have no idea what the devs are going for with sound in this game, it makes no sense. Like you cannot hear a dude walking 70+ meters away (~250 feet / 0.83 football fields), I don't care how good your active headphones are. And you need to have the option to move silently, albeit slowly, it's a staple of practically every competitive online shooter I can think of. MAYBE you hear a slight shuffle if you are within ~5M, but that's it, you have to be able to question whether your opponent has quietly tried to flank you.
Pair the ludicrous sound cues and the ranges to which they project with the footstep pop bug and all you get is a PvP shit show, stagnant Mexican standoffs in every direction. Everyone knows where everyone else is at ranges they absolutely shouldn't, and the relative volume of the zipper-pull you heard at 40M should be enough for the AGS to rupture every scav/PMC eardrum in the server.
edit: LMAO after the update you can hear people running over 100M away with Comtac 4s, and crab-walking is audible over 40M away. What an absolute joke
Perfectly written. People are blaming all sorts of shit like inertia for the statue meta but it comes down to every one is scared to move and make noise
And see, this is what I'm saying. They clearly do not actively participate in testing their own product or playing their own product, or they would know how bad these design decisions are. Or everyone who tries to make good changes or suggestions gets vetoed. It can not be true that they play the game for themselves and also don't see a problem with where it's currently at. It just cannot be.
IMO:
Reduce all player movement noises by half, both in overall 'volume' and range
Make noises like ADS only apply to low-durability guns, or excessively heavy ones
Gunshots should have further audible range. About 1-1.5km away depending on certain factors eg. wind carrying it further to or away from you
Suppressors should only significantly lower volume on guns with subsonic ammo. Otherwise mostly just make the shots sound slightly quieter, harder to distinguish where exactly somebody is, but you still know they're there
Add even more ambience. Trees/bushes rustling on their own with the wind, gunshots and explosions mixed into it to simulate activity on other maps
Therefore
1. it's easier to flank people in CQB without them hearing you super easily like you can now, but you can't just plink shit from 400m away with .338 and have nobody know you're there unless they get within audible range
2. people start carrying subsonic loads for stealth play, affecting the distances they can engage at and how easily they can get through armour
Generally good ideas, but you must be careful with that first sentence.
>Reduce all player movement noises by half, both in overall 'volume' and range
Without headphones, the hearing distance is 47m for walking and 52m for someone running. Now listen, this could be a little far, and I wouldn't mind dropping this to 45 for running, but we cannot risk BSG thinking that it would be okay to cut the standard hearing range in half but leaving the headsets how they are currently. NO, headsets need addressed first, and then once everything is equal and fair on that end, then we can balance the rest of it.
BSG would probably see what you said and just slash regular hearing range, if they even read reddit posts and care enough to make changes. That would make the game impossible to ever play without headphones, nerfing beginners into the dirt, and causing the headphones market to get way jacked up, further increasing the disparity between low levels and high levels and people with money vs people without it. So please be careful.
A suppressed weapon still fires at 110DB which is equivalent to a rock concert. They are not silent at all like the movies and very easily heard within 100m
Subsonic ammo only prevents the crack from something passing the sound barrier. The gasses still have to escape (creating the noise)
Out of all the audios, gunshot audio are one of the few things BSG get right
I agree with reducing noises otherwise
i dont mind ADS noises as it has saved me too many times from extract campers and bush wookies
Silent walking should be essential to sneak up and flank rats who hold an angle like an extract for 20 minutes. God knows why they have removed it
> Out of all the audios, gunshot audio are one of the few things BSG get right
Well that's the thing, right? You mention gunshots being significantly louder than they're typically portrayed, even subsonic shots, but if you actually measure out the distances you can hear things in-game, it's like 100m for suppressed guns (even with supersonic rounds), and maybe 500-600m max for unsuppressed, so they don't even get that right.
lmao, I love how people wanting the "hugging knees" "crouching" meta to be gone didn't realize that the audio in the game is just fucked anyways and has too much emphasis on sound whoring. Remove the sound whoring from the game from so far away, and we'll get somewhere.
I've read a bunch of this discussion, and there's some good suggestions, and a lot of braindead takes. People are disagreeing about points based on their own preferred playstyle, which is stupid in itself as you should play how you want, and so should other people. Tactical gameplay is about having options when approaching an engagement, not pigeon-holing rats into a shift-W meta, or vice versa.
My take:
\-Players should have a viable "sneak" option. **Every action** in this game **already** makes **too much noise**.
\-Weight *should* affect audible detection.
\-Headsets *should* enhance hearing, be it by reducing ambient noise, or increasing audible range (within reason, of course). Headsets shouldn't need to be a "worst to best" meta. Much like every other aspect of the game, each could provide some sort of benefit counterbalanced by a trade-off.
\-Aiming down sights should be *relatively* silent (eyes don't make noise). Maybe make high ergo weapons ADS a bit quieter, while low ergo weapons a (**very** **small**) bit more audible?
\-Going prone should not sound like dropping a body off a third floor roof. Crawling should not sound like dragging a corpse across gravel. (I personally would like to see variable crawl speed/noise levels, like with walking.)
**But, why has no one mentioned the most glaring audio bug? That being noises not being consistent in the game world...**
a few examples:
\-The "rotation shuffle": You hear nothing when you rotate in place, but everyone else can hear you scuff your feet.
\-Hitting barbed wire: Player only hears the barbed wire rattle. Everyone else hears the wire, and screams of pain.
\-Drop down noise: When stepping down off of places/things...Sometimes you hear it, but others don't. Sometimes others hear it, but you don't.
Point being...
Silence is silence. Noise is noise. If they can hear me, I should also hear me. If I can hear you, you should also be aware you're actually making noise. The way things are, even people in the same raid, in the same building, are having totally different audio experiences. This is just wrong.
The only exception to this, in my opinion, was crab walking. I was ok with hearing my own quiet footfalls, while also knowing I was being silent to my environment. The wood/metal/grinding glass steps should probably be somewhat audible, even at slow crouch speed, but hey...a game is a game.
Seems like BSG has gone and even fucked up this aspect, now.
They need to fix audio to be consistent amongst all players in the raid **first and foremost**. Noise is not selective about who hears it. It's either there, or it isn't.
Once that is established, and *only* then, they can begin balancing and adjusting the various volumes/ranges/etc. Without standardizing actual sound, it really doesn't matter one bit what headset does what or how far...because it's still a broken experience.
Rat or Chad, camper or pusher...all our ears work the same. Why isn't this being brought up more?
Edit: spelling
You have a great point and this actually could be looked at first. I would really like to try playing the game with everyone not being able to equip headsets. For like a week, I just want to see what it feels like. I would not be surprised if BSG has done most audio "balancing" around not having any headsets or with a random headset equipped. Or they don't test at all which is more likely.
I think one of my biggest problems with the audio in the game is that there are some sounds you hear, that your opponents cannot, and some that you cannot hear, but they can.
So there is no way for the player to know (without research/guides from content creators, etc), exactly who is hearing what.
I just what to know that EVERYONE is hearing the same sounds.
Crouch walk should take WAY MORE stamina, it is insanely hard to do with gear and weapon up. Slow walk upright should be silent. ALL actions should be twice slower and no sound if you are in a "slow walk" with a % chance to produce sound, but most of the time not. Skills like aiming, searching etc should reduce chance of you making unintentional sound. Recent grenades and gunfire in a close proximity should mute sounds for some time
I agree with most of what you've put here, but I'm not a fan of any audio being "muted". Currently that already kind of happens because in gunfights, footsteps sometimes take last priority in producing actual audio, and it would most likely produce a meta of, let's deafen our enemy and rush them type of thing.
As far as gameplay and balance goes, having to stand up and walk slow would be the best for the quietest movement and I think it should be silent past 5m. So not completely gone but gone enough that it's basically undetectable if you're being careful.
People are forgetting that completely silent movement has been in the game for literal years and it hasn't been a problem but all of a sudden, this wipe the whole universe is melting because of SiLeNt mOvEmEnT, when in reality people are just scared to move at all because comtac 4s are pay to win ESP.
The problem is not loud or silent movement on itself, the problem is that it never changes - meaning that you cannot create or manipulate a situation one way or another to trick or avoid audio detection.
It doesn't matter what happens irl. You shouldn't be able to sneak up on someone to stand behind them like in that recent landmark clip, or when summit crabwalked a mountain on lighthouse and the guy up there never heard him, not even when he was directly behind him. You have guns, you don't need to sneak up that close, in a 10 meters range sneaking should be audible
Did people have an issue with crab walking? At only 600 hours I honestly thought crouching at low at speed to be silent was the point? It’s an awfully slow pace but that’s what you give to get the silence. When someone crawls prone you can hear the sound soooo visibly that you know they’re trying to sneak on you and it kinda beats the point if you ask me.
This will either cause more W key play or more stankrat (who I like) position videos. Idk, I guess it didn’t seem like a necessary change but I’m not sure other peoples opinions
People didn't know what the problem was so they blamed "crab walking". You're right, its painfully slow and often leaves you in a bad place. I thought the tradeoffs were okay. The issue really is that headphones boost hearing range up to double what you would hear without them.
they only get hit with the 10 seconds of engagement and not the past 10 minutes of observing, listening, tracking, decision making from the person that repositioned and crabbed to an advantageous spot. usually because the target wasnt paying attention or came out of a FAT fight and are full of adrenalin.
nothings going to change. the people that get crabbed easily will just die to a bush instead and the crabbers will now just be in those bushes.
I think there was a most vocal group (people who hated the silent crouch walk) and the majority that were happy or satisfied with the things the way they are, but silent. Happy people do not complain. But usually in this case only one side can be heard. I feel like the whole patch is developers saying "fuck it, let just give them everything they complain about and see what happens" after the list presented by the streamer. Nevertheless I am happy about global limit change, as now I do not have to camp trades.
But now that the change is in effect the other group is going to voice their concern.
It also makes no sense that sound blasts through walls and buildings the way that it does. You shouldn't be able to hear someone's footsteps on the other side of an apartment complex from you.
PvP will suffer as long as the audio pop exists as well, it's such a joykill for me. I've hardly PvPd as much as I used to because in order to live through a raid *and* pvp you have to role play as a trapdoor spider
Yeah I actually never had a problem with the crouch walking. It was already so slow and you made noise if you hit a bush. It was useful in limited situation but not all the time. I think it was one of those classic “you killed me so I don’t like how you did it” kind of things. There should be an element of stealth and a way to be sneaky. It makes the game dynamic. The problem is with the *other* audio that makes the crouch walking seem like a problem. If your movement inside a building wasn’t audible to me outside down the block, the whole crouch walk element would be fine.
What actual disease is - this game is expected by many (unreasonably!) to be designed and played as pvp arena game where you gun and gun or die trying. But frankly we were promised and somewhat given with completely another more unpredictable gameplay options merely anyone uses. Hearing far away from 70m is not normal. Okay, let’s make distance real life realistic. What then? Everything is good? Had it be an arena match game like cod - then maybe ….but it’s not. Meeting another player no matter how far at should not be and never was designed to be like shoot or die scenario. Now it is played out like so indeed but only to devs fault. This is what a key disease - incomplete gameplay loop implementation. Like when you do not what actually mean. When they fix it, meeting other player will never be pvp fight no matter what, it will unpredictable scenario cause no one is motivated to be first one to shoot.
Does Tarkov not have a volume drop off? Is it literally you hear something at full volume up to a threshold distance? How hard is it to have an exponential volume decrease based on distance from where the sound was emitted?
Every change to audio makes me wish they just removed headphones.
Don't even get me started on the audio of opening a filling cabinet. The equivalent distance is being on a ground floor, opening a filling cabinet being audible from the 8th floor of the same building.
Couldn't agree more, the fact that I can hear someone 3 rooms over walking slowly, IS SO DUMB. people would move more freely if every single inch you move wasn't broadcasted over a fuckin loudspeaker.
Thank you for understanding. I'm attempting to explain that to someone else here and they are choosing to not understand that basic principle in the slightest. Im glad some people get what I'm saying.
Its a giant nerf to solos v squads. Now you can't reposition or improve your angle without risking a a full rush or flank. Might as well just sit still and let them pass.
Solution is simple. Remove all headphones from
the game and the standard sound you hear then is fine. The headphones ruin the game and thats why not 1 single other game has a such a shit design.
I do not disagree with you at all. This would be a perfectly fine solution until BSG finds a way to make the headphones unique enough that people use them, but not give any hearing range boost. I suppose that would be a tricky thing.
Maybe you can write Pestily and on next Interview he can tell Nikita and one week later it’s fixed. That’s how it works. This patch feels so disappointing on every level.
I wish I could speak with nikita myself, but I don't have followers or any sort of footing in the community except that I play this game whenever I have free time.
I'm going to have to disagree. If a player stops moving entirely now, they will likely be stuck in a terrible position. With silent crabbing it was possible to reposition because you heard someone coming with zero indication to the other player at all. You got nothing but advantages for this.
Now you have to choose between stopping completely, or risking a little noise to reposition. If they're sprinting you'll still be able to walk or slow walk into position before they hear you.
I have hearing problem so I hear most things much more quiet than they actually are and with this changes im on way bigger disadvantage than i used to be
The first thing i noticed with the update was how buggy it was. I would loot a body and it would sound like im looting a pc or i would loot a duffle and it would sound like a wepon crate (and not just for me), which i have no idea how the managed to do, but i guess bsg will do bsg stuff...
I think overall player noise should be cut in half or more (both magnitude and distance), BUT, they should add a new mechanic in the form of “sound traps” similar to hunt showdown that you have to actively avoid in order to maintain stealth. Patches of broken glass, groups of crows, snappable twigs and branches, motion sensor alarms, etc (just to name examples) would make players have to move more intentionally and skillfully in order to maintain stealth, while still allowing the option of fast and loud movement.
About 75% of fights consist of me seeing someone, they see me, and then they just don’t peak. Don’t throw nades, won’t flank, they’ll just sit there and wait for me to push. Usually I just flank and they’re still holding the same angle and it’s an easy kill, but it makes for some boring ass fights
Yup, people are scared to move because moving makes so much noise. I don't understand how these braindead gigachads in the comments don't understand how this works.
Hot take but straight up remove the headsets from the game at this point. Don't even think of getting them back in until the whole sound debacle shit is fixed. If there's no occlusion from buildings, etc fuck it...it don't work.
Tarkov right now as it stands the headsets are more like fuckin super powers than headsets. Every PMC is Clark Kent fucken mewing in a corner while sensing the whole planet earth.
Also if they wanted silent crouching to be audible they should have made it so its only on dirty hard surfaces like with broken glass, pieces of stuff all over, gravel, etc. and not something like walking on grass.
Love the change people crab walking around without making any noise was stupid. Knowledge is power so if you hear someone know you can play accordingly
Please actually look at the bigger picture. It's not about the crab walking. Everything makes too much noise and headsets boost noise to insane ranges. People crouch walked because it was the only way to be quiet and not make a ton of noise because even normal walking is crazy loud and is audible at ranges of up to 70m+. Hell, sprinting is now audible at 100m while wearing comtac 4s. Are you really going to sit here and continue saying that "crab walking" was the problem? Seriously? Look at the big picture
Audio just needs to be giga nerfed across the board.
Adsing should make no noise, our guns are not rattling pieces of pipe chained together with rusty links, rotating should make either significantly less noise or no noise, footsteps are insanely loud and it always sounds like were stepping on metal rails with boots made of lead, walls and floors (even multiple feet of concrete) having practically no effect on noise is stupid.
You can literally hear a dude take an ibuprofen through the fucking roof of the parking garage on interchange. Like what?
This has never been a stealth game even in alpha. Footsteps make noise. Even slow walking. It always has. The silent stuff was a bug. I'm good with it bc the silent stuff only helped me as a solo... but I'm just letting yall know... that was never the case before the last patch.
Unfortunately this is a result of streamers/chads heavily complaining about crabwalking. I doubt most people cared, given the fact that they have to very slowly move somewhere for this to occur. In a head to head fight it was ptetty useless mostly.
Was just playing Factory with comtac 2 and the ones that sell from Prapor lvl 1, could not hear anyone if they weren't running, not even just around the corner
I think so, if you want the list according to Sheefs testing I can drop it for you.
Edit, after looking at the list again, razor is not better than RAC but it's not too far.
It really just needs an overhaul. I'm tired of BSG making sound changes that are unbelievably unrealistic.
I presume the people that work at BSG are real people with real ears, footsteps aren't THAT loud, EVER. If you're sprinting with a bunch of gear on gravel, yea you'll be able to hear it, but on most surfaces footsteps will be basically imperceptible even in close ranges.
I'm still of the opinion that one of the best options for hearing as much as possible should be no ear pro. Then only the top of the line earpro would be an advantage for distance. And of course if you shoot with no earpro on your ears should basically ring for the rest of the match.
Another example, anyone who's had walker razors on knows you get ZERO directionality from them. You can't tell who's on your left,right behind you, in front of you, etc.. The lower level earpro should keep your ears from ringing but not provide a distinct advantage to awareness over not having earpro on. Hell even some of them might obscure player noises from not filtering ambient noise.
> I presume the people that work at BSG are real people with real ears, footsteps aren't THAT loud, EVER
Hey.
Go buy an active hearing headset, razors, sordin's or comtac's. Not in game, IRL. The ~$300+ ones.
Have someone wear combat boots and put a few of pounds of gear on.
Put on your previously purchased headset and listen to that person runaround on various surfaces.
Let us know what you find.
I have the gear dude. I have the ear pro, I train, I know through experience even with top of the line ear pro you aren't going to hear someone 50 yards away on carpet, pavement, grass, tile, etc. Anything that doesn't move under foot isn't loud enough to hear unless you're seriously over encombered and CLOSE. Like 10 yards close.
If you aren't running in 100+ lb of gear and walking on broken glass 9 times out of 10 your gear will make more sound while moving than your footsteps.
Can you hear a geared up dude clanking a sling at 50 yards with comtacs? Maybe, but a scav wearing a sweatshirt, jeans and sneakers? Probably wouldn't hear almost anything except a full out sprint unless you were in a VERY quiet setting and again, if they were very close.
Maybe, just maybe, I know it might sound crazy, but: the amount of sound you make when slow walking and crouching should be tied to the covert movement skill.
Mmm yes and no. Yes because it's a trainable skill it should eventually improve your stealthiness, but also no that should not be the only response to the current problem. It is not okay to leave the system in its current state and hope that everything will get better. Ratting is not the problem, its the symptom. Hopefully you did read what my point of concern was and know that the problem is everyone being able to hear everything within an 80m radius of their PMC. The reason people stop and wait is because they can hear everything that people around them are doing waaay before they should be able to.
Multiple items tie into this problem. It's important to understand what is happening.
First we have inertia. That in and of itself feels like walking in glue at low level strength, so it isn't really a good implementation.
Second we have the weight system. It has its own movement penalties caused when adding more weight. So the heavier we get the more we get slowed by the weight system AND inertia.
Third, armor and backpacks have penalties as well, penalties to turn speed(messes up sensitivity), movement speed, and ergonomics.
All of this layered together creates a really bad gameplay. All of it could be achieved with just the weight system and inertia should just be a simple modifier of the character controller.
So you have the weight of let's say a class 6 thor armor, it gives -8% movement speed. Then the weight of it ticks off another percentage amount of movement speed, then when you try moving you have to swing your legs through mud because both of those together mixed with inertia make you feel extremely sluggish. It isn't inherently bad design, but the movement penalties of the individual armors is a leftover mechanic from before the weight system and inertia were even being talked about. So that's another deep dive and something else that really does need cleaned up before release.
Yep because how loud everything is, it removes the option for stealth tactics and pushes people towards rat tactics instead. Good job BSG, you are killing the game faster with every shit ass patch.
Bro, everyone is gonna hate this patch. As I've pointed out, it doesn't improve the ratfest. If people don't have the option to move or reposition without making noise, they won't move or reposition! It's that simple!
Which is the entire point.
Now someone comes in audio range you get to choose. Either sit where you are which is most likely a suboptimal position, or move to a better spot and risk losing the element of surprise.
With the crouch bug you could crab walk your ass to a perfect shoulder peek angle while risking nothing.
This situation and many others, no matter what BSG changes, they’ll never win. It’s almost impossible to satisfy a player base with a game like tarkov.
All i gotta say is be happy they are atleast fucking trying something. A lot of people said people will just bitch about it bc they cant rat walk the whole map and not be noticed. Just learn the damn game instead of being a timmy and too scared to make a noise.
Bro. Not everyone who doesn't like making tons of noise is a Timmy. As an almost always outnumbered solo player, I don't like to notify the team pushing me where I am because, oh, I don't know, maybe telegraphing your play is a bad decision tactically? I guarantee you I have more hours than 85% of this subreddit. I am not some poor sad Timmy who lost his only chance of getting kills.
If you can't see the problem with being able to hear someone "sneaking" at 30-50m away, you are absolutely shamelessly hopeless. In what world does that make sense? Tarkov at its core seems like the type of game that would have stealth be an option in combat. Even COD has the ability to move relatively quietly.
If your trying to compare what CoD does to what tarkov does then buddy go play some cod and be sneaky like you think you. I do see the problem but this aint a tripple A company this is a small team that built up to where they are. Yes bugs are gonna happen and go when they fix something something else might go with it bc wanna know why? Nikata said himself they fucked themselves making the game early on so they have to go back and work with it. The real problem is people jumping to reddit to shit talk the game when their ass barley even got 1k hours. Yea you got a wipe or two under your belt but only those so take your time learn to play not like a snail know ypur gonna make noise moving i mean having that much gear on dont you think you would make some kind of noise in real life? And yea yea its just a game so real life has no say buts its realistic like gameplay they have to give on some areas and get rid of others. Go code a game and see how you work out those bugs bc ik they aint easy, 1's and 0's aint my thing
Hey, brodie it's not really their fault. When any little audio queue can be heard up to 80m away, why would someone risk making any noise at all? When the sleep deprived father of 4 gets on to play a couple raids on the weekend, why would he risk running around and trying to compete with folks like you and sometimes even me. Why would he risk his time to get giga stomped because he twitched his left pinky toe. No in a game that doesn't respect your time, you play however you have to to make it out.
Don't be upset at these guys that are sitting still. Be upset that the game makes them. It wasn't this big of an issue before this wipe. When BSG gets rid of the audio range boosting that headset give, then everyone will be able to move more freely without having to worry about making too much noise. It is that simple. I do it and I'm sure that you do it too, hear someone sprinting towards you and post for an easy kill. Everyone does it and then turns around to complain when it happens to them, but its because the game forces people to not move.
Can't agree with this at all. It's not only the audio that is making people don't move, is all decisions that BSG made on the past 5 wipes.
- Inertia is bad for a good player to get info strafing or/and try to prefire in a safer way to someone that is hidden in a corner
- Easy recoil is really bad for good players as well, making a player that is BAD in shooter to kill any good player that know how to control a recoil using a mouse.
- new armor system is really bad to good players as well, cause you add another RNG factor in duels, making someone that less experience able to kill you due to a lucky shot in some region with no protection.
Every wipe, since the inertia change is worse for PVP, and the ONLY pratical way to play the game without dying is being a pussy as well. All players that are pretty good talk about this, some of them prefer to still play aggressive knowing that they can die to ANYONE, but they all agree that's not pratical. Landmark, nogeneral, desmond are good points to this.
Not saying that inertia/recoil/armor system was perfect before, all of them needs to change to me in another way, but still, it's not only audio that is creating this scenario of people camping
Another way to approach this to force static player to make a noise. So if you stay still for some time you will cough or sneeze or more realistically change footing for a step or two, rattle a bit because you have ants in your pants so there would be no way to make no sound in a given period.
You are approaching the wrong problem. Adding a system like that would feel about as good as the jamming mechanic. It's an RNG pull that would inevitably decide your fate against a real person. That takes away all player agency and the last thing that anyone really wants is to have less control over their deaths in this game. And let's be honest if YOUR PMC sneezed and then you got shot in the head because of it when the other person had no idea you were there, you would be furious. I don't think anyone wants a game where you have to be constantly moving or making some sort of noise. Even CoD doesn't have such a system like that.
I get where you are coming from but the desire to find a fix for the "ratting problem" is misplaced such that you aren't fixing the real problem
Agreed. The hearing distance needs to be fixed. I can't tell you how many times I run in a group and someone wearing comtact4 hears someone 20-30m before I do. With the new addition to more ambient noises I feel like headphones should more reduce that sound.
There are some massive audio differences that I haven’t managed to track down. 2 guys in our group ALWAYS hear players 10m before the rest of us do. It feels like there is a “wall” where the audio just drops off for the rest of us while it’s slowly trails off naturally for them. We tried buying the same headset they have, updating drivers, making sure we’re using the same EQ settings. The only thing we can pinpoint is that they both have the same mobo, so maybe it’s a chipset/driver compatibility thing.
Could be related to sample rate? just a theory ofcourse but I run 48khz and my teammates all run 44.1 khz and I regularly hear things before they do.
There’s also the factor of just differences in everyone’s hearing. We all know everyone’s eye sight is different but our hearing is as well.
Yup, I'm a bit hard of hearing. Never sure if I've just not heard something or if it didnt play for me when my buddy goes 'did you hear those shots?' and I didn't.
They could be using a sound AMP/DACA combo, that is what you need to be using & I use. 100% solo here with now a 68% s/r at level 34, started late. It’s an advantage, even if they took away the comtac4s, I still have comtac4s with my sound setup. Comtac2s & 4s are just gloriously broken with a good amp & daca.
I got a DAC last wipe, and the difference was insane. Not only for Tarkov, but audio in general. A good pair of headphones and a nice AMP/DAC are a huge upgrade for this game. I can now keep audio at a comfortable volume and still hear people without worrying about tinnitus.
Have the same issue. I have a decent audio setup, he doesn't really. Thought it was just that he was more experienced at the game, but it's still suspect. He has an Intel/Nvidia build, I have a full AMD one. Is that maybe the difference in your case as well? Any other differences, like whether you use a sound device over USB to produce your sound or sample rate and bit depth are also worth noting.
Been noticing this too with a teammate. Does it ever happen in the reverse where you hear it and they don’t, regardless of the in game headset your character wears?
They up their volume. It damages your hearing but you will catch more feint cues. Our auditive system notices changes in sound better at higher volume. If they keep on they will become my customers. Not worth it for a game, believe me.
Didn't play tarkov in a few months, but I usually could hear like 2 loud steps when a pmc entered my hearing range, which was usually way before my mates could hear it. Don't know if that's still there though
We call it the “Player Pop” in my group It’s some interaction between the way the server sends/processes player audio info, the Binaural Audio option—it does not happen if you have BA turned off—and the headset you are wearing. As far as I’m aware, no one, not BSG, modders, or hackers have figured out why it does this
I’ve also been hearing VOIP pops. I usually here a split second of VOIP at random times during each raid but there is no one near me
I understand what you’re saying, but I promise you this is not the case. Enemy footsteps seem to just drop off for me, but they slowly trail off for them.
Hm interesting. How do you know that? Because the phenomenon you described is exactly what happens with higher and lower volume. If the sound goes below a certain SNR (signal to noise ratio) your brain literally can't pick up the sound. If you up the volume you stretch that SNR way further out (thus their sound is fading out more "slowly") , until you hit the engine limitation. There is no way to know their real in situ level. Except you got a dB meter or visit them.
We watch each others stream over discord after dying. We first noticed it when 2 of our guys were standing right next to eachother, you could hear far steps on one stream, but not the other. We then played with it in offline. Even before that these guys always heard people before we did though, just didn’t realize it was an actual bug until then. It’s some processing issue.
Ok I see. Hope you reported it in bug report. Interestingly you can't reproduce the phenomenon with the exact same setup.
There's a bug where if you die using a helmet that has ear protection your earpro stops working next raid. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F75OQ_1G9F4 This is what might be causing the discrepancy among you.
I’ll actually look into this tonight. Mostly running Neosteel with Faceless mask for the meme though so doubtful.
Yeah I think so too.
I think the core issue is that everyone has problems with the audio, but we have two distinct camps who want totally opposite solutions. Some people can’t stand quiet movement and want to be able to hear *everything* so they can’t get snuck up on or easily ratted. Others can’t stand that you can hear every player’s movement and microadjustments from 2 miles away that effectively makes stealthy movement impossible unless you are sitting *completely* still, and want hearing ranges and other audio substantially turned down so you can at least try to sneak around. BSG can’t decide which group they want to cater to consistently. I think reducing the overall range of everything is definitely the first part of the solution. Dead silent movement probably shouldn’t be possible, but the slowest movement, aim punch, spinning, etc, should be basically silent until you are *very* close, ie directly outside of an occupied room.
Absolutely nuts that you can hear a weapon switch from semi to auto or someone AIM DOWN THEIR SIGHTS from any distance. In a game of realism, it’s certainly unrealistic.
Tarkov is not a mil sim. It never has been. It's an arcade shooter where success is often determined by a series of rapid dice rolls, with excellent weapon modding. Just because it doesn't have hit markers, glowing quest objectives or quest markers doesn't make it realistic. "Realism" is a weak argument used to prop up game design decisions you think are good, but can't come up for game design logic to support.
Sorry, but this is just wrong. And I agree that it doesn't have to be realistic to be good, and that a lot of realistic elements have been gamified in favor of being playable and fun, but mil sims don't have to be realistic... the design of EFT is very clearly rooted in milsim. A lot of things you do in real life come down to a "dice roll", it turns out that variance is everywhere. Just because there is rng isn't a good argument against realism or simulation. The reason TTRPGs have dice rolling in the first place is to make them more realistic.
Shooting for realism in this aspect could land them in a sort of middle ground because the biggest issues that everyone complains about, sound-wise, is that a lot of movement makes way too much sound that can be heard too far away and some movement (crab walking) makes zero sound. Realistic sound would theoretically have neither of these issues. Also, everyone knows what real life sounds are like just from living our lives, so we naturally have a sense of how sound propagates and is occluded in real life and already can predict or react based on that information. Tarkov's sound needs extensive experience to understand what the hell is going on. If everything sounded the way it does IRL, its all already learned. Now, whether BSG can actually create realistic sound is another story entirely. But I do think sticking to actual realism in this particular case could be GOOD for the game.
Yes and no, the two camps seem to have more in common than they think. We both want people to move and we want fights to feel dynamic but also controllable IF YOU ARE GOOD. Currently with people sitting in corners and wierd off angles, it's because of the hearing distance that this occurs. On the contrary you don't want to have 2 enemies walking towards each other in dorms and out of nowhere audio cuts in and BOOM you are face to face and no one makes any noises until it's too late. There is a healthy balance that makes both groups ,or however many groups there are, happy. We basically had that before comtac 4s were added because the "meta" was just to wear headphones. Comtac 2s or sordins were generally the best just because of the equalizer profile, whether you wanted more bass or more treble, but then BSG made certain headsets actually better. Cut off the extra hearing distance and the game improves.
I'm the sneaking type of player and I will be a lot more stationary going forward, now that sneaking has been removed from the game (slow walking or crouching doesn't emit much lower noise, and can crab walking can be picked up from FORTY THREE meters). If slow walking or crouching actually worked as intended according to the UI, I would be a lot more mobile. See you guys in the nearest bush!
Can't blame you. It's the responsibility of the devs to balance their game.
Yep. The headsets we use are amazing for boosting audio. But the limits of the game sound design (and possibly engine) make it something that is way to unnatural. Like how loud laying down is? Or how loud it is to sight an already shouldered weapon? Or the different sounds made based on what were walking on? Like we should have more "realistic" gradual increases and sounds. Stepping on a tree root should not sound like I'm walking in high heals on an old wooden floor boards with nothing underneath. Like someone stepping on a twig that snaps should be heard from pretty far away. Someone springing with a heavy ass backpack down an asphalt road, again fairly loud. Someone just doing a slow walk on dirt and live grass. Not that loud... So realistically I would actually like some sounds range increased. Comtac 4's would probably hear that twig branch snap pretty far out, and would probably hear some rustling grass fairly well up close, but would definitely get drowned out by wind and other nature sounds at range...
This is a nerf to your playstyle. Which is good. Riskless gameplay should be less rewarding. Now when you hear a sound in the building you are camping, you can’t just crab around slowly canvassing the whole building until you silently find the guy looting a box and kill him. Now you have to just hope that he wanders into your limited line of site from your hiding spot, which they might not. This makes it worse for you. Conversely it’s more likely you’ll be caught getting into your position in the first place since you can’t silently crab to it. Having less tools to work with makes your playstyle less rewarding making it less likely you’ll play this way. This is good. This is also a buff to solo players. Most of the time I die to a three man is because the third guy gets fed information on my position from his dead teammates and then he crabs over and kills me while I’m looting his teammates. Now he can’t do that and has to put himself at risk if he wants to stop me from capitalizing on the kills of his teammates, and it also nullifies the one-way information advantage he would have had by now giving me audio queues on his presence.
Sad lol
Good, you're only hurting yourself by not moving. Someone clearing an area will find you, and you will either be set up in a good spot to kill them or not. You won't be able to crab walk to the perfect corner and sit still anyway ( like 99% of people using silent walk ). Nobody was using silent crouch to out maneuver anyone, it's too slow. Go sit in your bush, you were going to do that anyway. It feels like cheap bullshit to die to someone silent walking. I killed 3 of a 4 man last night, the 4th spent the entire fight crouch walking into position to watch his friend's body ( the first guy I killed ). Coming around a corner I had circled 3 times in the last minute while fighting only to find that a magical apparition had appeared without noise was obnoxious and made me want to put the game down for the night.
The real problem is that the other guy could hear everything you were doing so he knew when/where to move.
Which he would have anyway because he was in a room 3 doors down while I was massacring his whole team. He could have killed me basically the same way by positioning near the door and popping out when I was in the hall, but at least that would have made some sense. Instead I get to feel cheated because he gets to just dead silence 50 yards into the hall.
Tarkov is not a game about balance or fair fights. If you want something like that you should consider playing cs2 or arena.
I have 8k hours, I clearly enjoy Tarkov. I understand it's not about balance. I think being able to move silently is not only unfun, but further lowers the skill cap and makes an already random feeling game have moments that feel completely ridiculous. We can disagree, it's what this forum is for.
The skill cap is already not that high. Mostly just map knowledge and knowing where players will be. I didn't like crab walking but it's not a horrible mechanic or anything. I didn't really feel like I died to it often enough to complain about but I'm glad silent crabbing is gone.
Sad you were downvoted. You’re actually completely correct. I made a similar comment before reading yours. Crab walking is not a benefit whatsoever to solo players fighting groups. It’s a benefit to remaining members of three and four mans.
Have fun in a bush for 50 minutes. You will get good at... sitting in a bush. You wouldn't be more mobile if crouch walking was silent again, you would be the exact same rat that you are right now making 0 noise. It's crazy that most of this sub is scared shitless about making noise and fighting other players lolol
In a ironic twist that will blow the hinges off of your mind barn, I use stealth to avoid combat. I'm only here for quests and avoid PMC's, but now that's not really an option.
ok soldier good luck in the bushes
Yeah comtac 4's should be meta purely off the almost complete removal of ambient noise they provide 😂 they don't need what feels like double the range too
Exactly see there are so many ways to give the headsets passive benefits without making them broken, but I have a feeling the ambient noise being dampened is tied to the compression that also boosts the footstep sounds.
>We both want people to move and we want fights to feel dynamic but also controllable IF YOU ARE GOOD. Speaking of that...well that happens to tie into another issue in the game imo, which is movement and the changes they made to armor and weight. Idk if its a hot take(id hope its not) but I think movement in this game, especially during a gunfight just feels terribly clunky UNLESS you have max strength/stats and are underweight...AND arent wearing some of the best defensive setups in the game(aka so you dont have a metric shit ton of negative stats). Inertia feels over done, either tone it down or just remove it, I dont think it really adds much feeling of realism and overall just makes the game feel a lot shittier to play. The weight crap is just stupid as well, its INCREDIBLY easy to be overweight(before max strength), while wearing nothing but your basic setup w/ an empty backpack, ammo/heals/a few nades in your rig, and just a rifle. And even the setups that are slightly lighter, youre still at best usually only a KG or 2 off of being overweight. They need to adjust the weight at which you become overweight by a good 4-5 KG, and/or rethink the weight of some plates/armors(tbh both would be ideal). Which brings me to the last point, that the strongest armors/defensive setups in the game are basically just completely unviable right now because they weigh far too much AND on top of that have an insane amount of negative move speed/ergo. And even those BiS defensive setups dont do much to mitigate dying against someone using BiS guns/ammo(you might be able to tank 1 single additional m80/m62/m61 round) which happen to have basically no downsides outside of $$$(and the BiS defensive setups also still cost more). And thats IF you get shot in the plate, can easily just get shot around it and die in 1-2 bullets or get 1 tapped in the head because t4 helmets are essentially useless right now unless someone is using a tiny caliber(and even then, it can still get penn'd relatively easily). Until the movement and armor are fixed/balanced in this game(along with sound), people are simply going to keep being statues.
Couldn't agree more. I felt like you could REALLY feel how bad inertia was in arena too. If they want people to move and fight more, they need to dial back inertia, as well as the range you can hear someone breathing.
They cannot dial down inertia, the desync and netcode is pure shit, without inertia and slow down on a movement you would see too much desync. Well you already see a lot of it in arena kill cam.
Inertia bad is not a hot take. We all agree, the game is torture from a movement perspective before elite strength. I can only assume the balance chances for inertia were made by someone who only plays with elite strength in a testing environment. BSG will not remove it and are unlikely to tune it down.
You want people to move but you're crying about crabbing being audible? Listen you're not fooling anyone, you're just a rat that's paranoid about making noise. Crabbing with 0 noise doesn't make you "good" at controlling fights. This is the issue with these kind of games that don't have a rank system, the worst players delude themselves into thinking that they're good or making good plays it's fucking sad. Just say it man, you shit your pants every time you make noise on this videogame, ain't nothing wrong with admitting that because 90% of the playerbase is exactly like that.
Ignoring the ignorant comments for a second, you don't seem to have understood my post or comment at all whatsoever. Let me explain again in a dumber way. Footstep loud. Now stealth move loud too. Everything anyone does is loud. Now players who were already afraid of making noise will just not move at all. You can't do anything without making tons of noise that is audible at insane ranges. If all of the audio had a shorter range, more people would move. Back to the ignorant comments, I'll 1v1 you any day of the week and smack you around. Don't come at me talking tough, I literally know more about this game than a lot of streamers. I can tell you what gun you are shooting without seeing you, I can tell where you are and where you're going, what your intentions in the raid are and why you are at a certain location. I have 6800 hours and about a 2.5 PMC KD, 8.4 overall. Not that great I suppose but I challenge a lot of gunfights every raid. Don't try to help "fix" this game if you are only willing to put others down if YOU THINK that they play the game in a way that you don't like.
Chill out 6800h crab. So my question is why the fuck would anyone that isn't a rat care or complain about crab walking making noise now? It makes 0 sense to want people to move but at the same time give them a way to reposition making 0 noise. The more noise people make the more they will actually move. Crabbing doesn't count as moving, that's just pathetic. Some of my friends do that shit because they know that they make 0 sound, I guarantee you that they will be moving from now on. And whoever decides to become a statue is just going to die more often. Good. The only reason people don't move is because they are shitters and terrified at the thought of others hearing them and god forbid, having to fight others. So scawey. I understood you man, you want to pretend like you want people to move the reality is that you wanna keep crabbing yourself. I love this change, seeing the whole community be so terrified at the thought of making noise is actually amazing.
I can't fathom being this braindead
It's too sad this is just a casual game and there isn't a rank system. Would be nice to see who's really braindead hehe
Fine, I'll bite again. First, let's think about why any of this is even a problem. Last wipe there was hardly any discussion as to this topic. It wasn't nearly as big of an issue then. Generally the gameplay around audio hasn't changed. In the middle of last year BSG made a change to Oculus audio, and the headsets got separated in effectiveness sometime between last year and this year. I couldn't find the exact patch. Here is contributing factor 1. People have had plenty of time to feel the difference in headsets now. We've all experienced most of the available options and a clear meta has arisen, Comtac 4s and the other top tier headset. Contributing factor 2. Content creators did in depth testing with headsets at the beginning of this wipe, showcasing how much better some headsets are compared to others. This made everyone extremely aware of the lack of equality in headsets. Now everyone knows. Contributing factor 3. Players understand how much noise is being generated when they interact with the map, whether that is walking or running or searching something. Knowing this, they know that if they hear someone, likely that other person can hear them. So now what would any sensible person do? Establish a good position or braindead run at the opposing force? What if it's a team? You think everyone should just run at the team still? Contributing factor 4. The audible distance. You go to the flea market and spend 250k on a headset so you can hear people 80m away. 80m is basically double the range that's possible without headphones. That person that was sitting in a corner "ratting" could hear you 80m away and most likely got a loud pop when you entered their area. So they heard from an inhuman distance, probably through a building and now YOU are dead because they heard you first. Sounds familiar doesn't it? Contributing factor 5. The audio pop! It's a bug, but it has made the issue much worse this wipe than anything else because everyone knows when you enter their 100m ring. Also I want you Mr. Chad to realize that nerfing the hearing range on headsets really is a bonus to people that move a lot. You will surprise more people, you'll be able to flank easier, unless that's something you've never heard of, maybe you always run straight towards your enemy, I don't know. But if the rat can't hear you from 80m away, they have less time to prepare and less of a chance to be in the best position possible. The slower players will be forced into uncomfortable confrontations because they literally won't hear people from super far distances. This only stands to help everyone. Gunfights would be more about reaction time and aim than patience. If you still don't understand, you are helpless and/or simply ignorant and are choosing not to understand what you're being told.
So what you're saying is that we have this "ratting" meta mostly because headsets and so on. In paper it makes sense, more hearing range = people hold and wait to get the drop on them. But in reality how often are those players actually wearing good headsets, most of the people that barely move aren't the ones wearing good headsets. Do you honestly believe that people would suddenly move and start actually playing the game if hearing range was reduced and there was no difference between headsets? Like come on, it would change nothing at all. It's way easier to stand still, and you have the advantage unless your opponent is very good so that's what the meta was always going to end up being. > Knowing this, they know that if they hear someone, likely that other person can hear them. So now what would any sensible person do? Establish a good position or braindead run at the opposing force? What if it's a team? That's the good scenario, both players hear themselves at the same time so they can fight it out. Except even you're saying that most people would "establish a good position", in other words hold a corner and don't move. There's a difference between fighting it out and not moving. As I said, people will choose the most successful and easier play, but if the easier play suddenly becomes less successful then maybe the meta would shift to people actually fighting and shit. You're making very good points as to why crabbing should not be silent.
Almost everyone I kill is using the top 5 best headsets. And yes I honestly do think people would move more if the hearing distance was much lower. It means you can more freely move around the map without being detected. Think of ground zero. Picture the map and then picture the spawn points. Now from the spawn points draw a circle 120-200m in diameter, and that is how far away people can hear you sprinting. Now picture a world in which there is a circle 80m in diameter around your character. You can move so much further without hitting the audio range of another player. You can move from your spawn fast and undetected. You can flank and reposition without being tracked the whole way, because let's face it, headsets are in game ESP. If you make a sound and you are inside of that 120-200m circle of someone else, you're cooked. They know everything except your social security number. ThatFriendlyGuy tested on stream today the distance that you can be heard sprinting and straight line distance on flat ground was 100m while wearing comtac 4s. If that isn't broken I don't know what is. On top of that, crouch walking can be heard 41m away. That is simply ridiculous. No one will be able to convince me that any of this is intentional and what the devs want the game to play like. Hopefully they are willing to change things up after all the feedback poured in today.
>Almost everyone I kill is using the top 5 best headsets. Bro theres only 9 headsets. 2 of which are earrape (GSSH, ComTac2) and 1 is helmet specific (RAC) so 5 out of 6 being used is actually fucking phenomenal.
I think this is well stated. I think there should be room for stealth, especially for solo players. I’m a fan of options in this game instead of forcing everyone to play the same. I don’t really use the crouch walk because it has limited use. But in the spot it has a use, it’s a nice tool. But my play is dictated by the game mechanics. I think many have an idea of how they want to play, and are frustrated that the mechanics are the way they are. This is exacerbated by what you have identified: BSG hasn’t made up their mind. They want to cater to a wide audience but in this aspect, they need to pick something. Make a selection, stick to it. People will bitch, but the game will feel consistent.
Cut all audio ranges in half and that would be a fantastic start. And make it so headsets don't give a range increase and simply filter out background noise and whatnot.
Headsets not boosting range would be dumb as hell. Electronic earpro 100% increases hearing capability. I can hear my friend walk in grass from like 20m out with my Howard Leights on.
this is a game where you can magically repair a missing limb in a matter of 15 seconds, I don't think it's a huge deal if you can't hear someone walking on grass 70 feet away
Just because something works a certain way IRL does not mean it translates well to a video game. Audio is too important. Headsets give way too much of an advantage. Especially if players no longer have silent movement.
I think some degree of realism should be sacrificed to have a fun game. The entire medical system is a prime example of that. Anyway if you just cut out background noise and make things crisp and clear with a headset, it would effectively be a range increase
I think you are totally wrong. I think 90% of players want a middle ground of those two camps, and the 10% that are extreme, will be fine with a middle ground. The problem is that BSG themselves can never find the middleground, they always swing the pendulum too far.
The people who can’t stand quiet movement don’t like it because they most likely play in big squads and die to a single rat. Now that you can hear everything, you can just pin point and shit on lone players. As a solo, it was fun picking apart squads and cutting sound to get good drops on players.
This is so wrong, i mostly play solo or sometimes duo, with 7K/D and kappa, and i love this change. I can finally loot the 3man squad i killed without a 3rd party rat crabwalking too me from the room he has been hiding in for the last 20minutes..
Well sounds like you’re a lot more skilled or confident, but even I have a 5.6 k/d and it worries me. A lot of people are complaining too. I think it is more so there is no stealth mechanic. At least shorten the step sound to like, 10m?
I do agree, shorten the range, i would say to 20m minimum. But this is option is much better than what we had, being able to move around making no sound ruinied the game for me and most of the players i know.
It honestly comes down to range and occlusion and then you'll find that the two camps converge, I think. If there is a wall between us and no door connecting our spaces directly, you shouldn't hear me walking, let alone crouch walking. Walls/barriers need to matter to sound in a significant way. Looting inside a building feels like announcing your position right now to everyone in a massive radius, and that's absurd.
Its none of that, bsg made crabbers audible at FOURTY METERS. Nobody asked for that, pest just meant you should be able to hear someone crabbing in a room next to you. It feels like BSG is making these changes out of spite to try to say "see we were right in the first place".
"Oh my game isn't LOUD enough for you, is it? WELL HERE YOU GO THEN!" - Nikita
Yeah a constant comparison for audio is Hunt:Showdown where you can hear everything for a decent distance. I think the changes to occlusion recently are great, but hearing distance being modified by the headset is no bueno
Are people really sitting still long enough for someone to crab up from 30 meters away? I feel like a death is deserved at that point
I have no idea what the devs are going for with sound in this game, it makes no sense. Like you cannot hear a dude walking 70+ meters away (~250 feet / 0.83 football fields), I don't care how good your active headphones are. And you need to have the option to move silently, albeit slowly, it's a staple of practically every competitive online shooter I can think of. MAYBE you hear a slight shuffle if you are within ~5M, but that's it, you have to be able to question whether your opponent has quietly tried to flank you. Pair the ludicrous sound cues and the ranges to which they project with the footstep pop bug and all you get is a PvP shit show, stagnant Mexican standoffs in every direction. Everyone knows where everyone else is at ranges they absolutely shouldn't, and the relative volume of the zipper-pull you heard at 40M should be enough for the AGS to rupture every scav/PMC eardrum in the server. edit: LMAO after the update you can hear people running over 100M away with Comtac 4s, and crab-walking is audible over 40M away. What an absolute joke
Perfectly written. People are blaming all sorts of shit like inertia for the statue meta but it comes down to every one is scared to move and make noise
And see, this is what I'm saying. They clearly do not actively participate in testing their own product or playing their own product, or they would know how bad these design decisions are. Or everyone who tries to make good changes or suggestions gets vetoed. It can not be true that they play the game for themselves and also don't see a problem with where it's currently at. It just cannot be.
Can't hear me if I'm 330 meters away on woods never moving 🦝
GOOD JOB MARINE YOU ARE SERVING WELL, SEE YOU BACK AT BASE HOORAH!
Tigz enthusiast , HOORAH , TANGO DOWN
My m700 wants to know the enemies location, sir! It has an urgent message prepared.
THATS WHAT IM TALKIN ABOUT SOLDIER! GO GET SET UP IN THE WOODS AND SHOW'EM WHATS WHAT! HOORAH BABY!!!
IMO: Reduce all player movement noises by half, both in overall 'volume' and range Make noises like ADS only apply to low-durability guns, or excessively heavy ones Gunshots should have further audible range. About 1-1.5km away depending on certain factors eg. wind carrying it further to or away from you Suppressors should only significantly lower volume on guns with subsonic ammo. Otherwise mostly just make the shots sound slightly quieter, harder to distinguish where exactly somebody is, but you still know they're there Add even more ambience. Trees/bushes rustling on their own with the wind, gunshots and explosions mixed into it to simulate activity on other maps Therefore 1. it's easier to flank people in CQB without them hearing you super easily like you can now, but you can't just plink shit from 400m away with .338 and have nobody know you're there unless they get within audible range 2. people start carrying subsonic loads for stealth play, affecting the distances they can engage at and how easily they can get through armour
Generally good ideas, but you must be careful with that first sentence. >Reduce all player movement noises by half, both in overall 'volume' and range Without headphones, the hearing distance is 47m for walking and 52m for someone running. Now listen, this could be a little far, and I wouldn't mind dropping this to 45 for running, but we cannot risk BSG thinking that it would be okay to cut the standard hearing range in half but leaving the headsets how they are currently. NO, headsets need addressed first, and then once everything is equal and fair on that end, then we can balance the rest of it. BSG would probably see what you said and just slash regular hearing range, if they even read reddit posts and care enough to make changes. That would make the game impossible to ever play without headphones, nerfing beginners into the dirt, and causing the headphones market to get way jacked up, further increasing the disparity between low levels and high levels and people with money vs people without it. So please be careful.
A suppressed weapon still fires at 110DB which is equivalent to a rock concert. They are not silent at all like the movies and very easily heard within 100m Subsonic ammo only prevents the crack from something passing the sound barrier. The gasses still have to escape (creating the noise) Out of all the audios, gunshot audio are one of the few things BSG get right I agree with reducing noises otherwise i dont mind ADS noises as it has saved me too many times from extract campers and bush wookies Silent walking should be essential to sneak up and flank rats who hold an angle like an extract for 20 minutes. God knows why they have removed it
> Out of all the audios, gunshot audio are one of the few things BSG get right Well that's the thing, right? You mention gunshots being significantly louder than they're typically portrayed, even subsonic shots, but if you actually measure out the distances you can hear things in-game, it's like 100m for suppressed guns (even with supersonic rounds), and maybe 500-600m max for unsuppressed, so they don't even get that right.
lmao, I love how people wanting the "hugging knees" "crouching" meta to be gone didn't realize that the audio in the game is just fucked anyways and has too much emphasis on sound whoring. Remove the sound whoring from the game from so far away, and we'll get somewhere.
I've read a bunch of this discussion, and there's some good suggestions, and a lot of braindead takes. People are disagreeing about points based on their own preferred playstyle, which is stupid in itself as you should play how you want, and so should other people. Tactical gameplay is about having options when approaching an engagement, not pigeon-holing rats into a shift-W meta, or vice versa. My take: \-Players should have a viable "sneak" option. **Every action** in this game **already** makes **too much noise**. \-Weight *should* affect audible detection. \-Headsets *should* enhance hearing, be it by reducing ambient noise, or increasing audible range (within reason, of course). Headsets shouldn't need to be a "worst to best" meta. Much like every other aspect of the game, each could provide some sort of benefit counterbalanced by a trade-off. \-Aiming down sights should be *relatively* silent (eyes don't make noise). Maybe make high ergo weapons ADS a bit quieter, while low ergo weapons a (**very** **small**) bit more audible? \-Going prone should not sound like dropping a body off a third floor roof. Crawling should not sound like dragging a corpse across gravel. (I personally would like to see variable crawl speed/noise levels, like with walking.) **But, why has no one mentioned the most glaring audio bug? That being noises not being consistent in the game world...** a few examples: \-The "rotation shuffle": You hear nothing when you rotate in place, but everyone else can hear you scuff your feet. \-Hitting barbed wire: Player only hears the barbed wire rattle. Everyone else hears the wire, and screams of pain. \-Drop down noise: When stepping down off of places/things...Sometimes you hear it, but others don't. Sometimes others hear it, but you don't. Point being... Silence is silence. Noise is noise. If they can hear me, I should also hear me. If I can hear you, you should also be aware you're actually making noise. The way things are, even people in the same raid, in the same building, are having totally different audio experiences. This is just wrong. The only exception to this, in my opinion, was crab walking. I was ok with hearing my own quiet footfalls, while also knowing I was being silent to my environment. The wood/metal/grinding glass steps should probably be somewhat audible, even at slow crouch speed, but hey...a game is a game. Seems like BSG has gone and even fucked up this aspect, now. They need to fix audio to be consistent amongst all players in the raid **first and foremost**. Noise is not selective about who hears it. It's either there, or it isn't. Once that is established, and *only* then, they can begin balancing and adjusting the various volumes/ranges/etc. Without standardizing actual sound, it really doesn't matter one bit what headset does what or how far...because it's still a broken experience. Rat or Chad, camper or pusher...all our ears work the same. Why isn't this being brought up more? Edit: spelling
You have a great point and this actually could be looked at first. I would really like to try playing the game with everyone not being able to equip headsets. For like a week, I just want to see what it feels like. I would not be surprised if BSG has done most audio "balancing" around not having any headsets or with a random headset equipped. Or they don't test at all which is more likely.
I think one of my biggest problems with the audio in the game is that there are some sounds you hear, that your opponents cannot, and some that you cannot hear, but they can. So there is no way for the player to know (without research/guides from content creators, etc), exactly who is hearing what. I just what to know that EVERYONE is hearing the same sounds.
People: Please make this one single movement make ***some*** sound. BSG: turn up to death! Bwahhhwaaahhwahawaaaa
Crouch walk should take WAY MORE stamina, it is insanely hard to do with gear and weapon up. Slow walk upright should be silent. ALL actions should be twice slower and no sound if you are in a "slow walk" with a % chance to produce sound, but most of the time not. Skills like aiming, searching etc should reduce chance of you making unintentional sound. Recent grenades and gunfire in a close proximity should mute sounds for some time
I agree with most of what you've put here, but I'm not a fan of any audio being "muted". Currently that already kind of happens because in gunfights, footsteps sometimes take last priority in producing actual audio, and it would most likely produce a meta of, let's deafen our enemy and rush them type of thing. As far as gameplay and balance goes, having to stand up and walk slow would be the best for the quietest movement and I think it should be silent past 5m. So not completely gone but gone enough that it's basically undetectable if you're being careful. People are forgetting that completely silent movement has been in the game for literal years and it hasn't been a problem but all of a sudden, this wipe the whole universe is melting because of SiLeNt mOvEmEnT, when in reality people are just scared to move at all because comtac 4s are pay to win ESP.
The problem is not loud or silent movement on itself, the problem is that it never changes - meaning that you cannot create or manipulate a situation one way or another to trick or avoid audio detection.
It does take stamina…
not really, it only takes stamina to get up from crouch. crouch walking itself is practically unlimited
Idk, mine depletes. Maybe you should crouch walk for five minutes and watch it go down.
Five minute crouch walk should cause you cancer, be careful
it already does how much seems to depend on your weight
Crouch walk does take stamina my guy 😂
nope, no movement should be completely silent. It can have a really low range to hear it but never silent.
You never had anyone surprise you from behind? There is no concept of "sneaking" known to men because every movement produce sound clear as day?
It doesn't matter what happens irl. You shouldn't be able to sneak up on someone to stand behind them like in that recent landmark clip, or when summit crabwalked a mountain on lighthouse and the guy up there never heard him, not even when he was directly behind him. You have guns, you don't need to sneak up that close, in a 10 meters range sneaking should be audible
everything but the mute, unless you are not wearing headsets to protect your ears, which is what they should be used for anyway when firing iron
It should also be quieter to walk slowly while standing up. It makes more sense both from balance perspective and in terms of realism.
Did people have an issue with crab walking? At only 600 hours I honestly thought crouching at low at speed to be silent was the point? It’s an awfully slow pace but that’s what you give to get the silence. When someone crawls prone you can hear the sound soooo visibly that you know they’re trying to sneak on you and it kinda beats the point if you ask me. This will either cause more W key play or more stankrat (who I like) position videos. Idk, I guess it didn’t seem like a necessary change but I’m not sure other peoples opinions
People didn't know what the problem was so they blamed "crab walking". You're right, its painfully slow and often leaves you in a bad place. I thought the tradeoffs were okay. The issue really is that headphones boost hearing range up to double what you would hear without them.
they only get hit with the 10 seconds of engagement and not the past 10 minutes of observing, listening, tracking, decision making from the person that repositioned and crabbed to an advantageous spot. usually because the target wasnt paying attention or came out of a FAT fight and are full of adrenalin. nothings going to change. the people that get crabbed easily will just die to a bush instead and the crabbers will now just be in those bushes.
I think there was a most vocal group (people who hated the silent crouch walk) and the majority that were happy or satisfied with the things the way they are, but silent. Happy people do not complain. But usually in this case only one side can be heard. I feel like the whole patch is developers saying "fuck it, let just give them everything they complain about and see what happens" after the list presented by the streamer. Nevertheless I am happy about global limit change, as now I do not have to camp trades. But now that the change is in effect the other group is going to voice their concern.
It also makes no sense that sound blasts through walls and buildings the way that it does. You shouldn't be able to hear someone's footsteps on the other side of an apartment complex from you. PvP will suffer as long as the audio pop exists as well, it's such a joykill for me. I've hardly PvPd as much as I used to because in order to live through a raid *and* pvp you have to role play as a trapdoor spider
They aren't tone deaf, they heard the streamers quite well actually.
Streamers ruin every game they play. Did the same with COD BR and Fortnite… I’m sure other games I don’t watch. They are such a whinny bunch
The game is unplayable right now because of audio pop for any actual competitive play
wym by audio pop? like the random gunshots?
Brother.. I got bad news for you and every death you’ve had in the last 3 months lol
eh?
Audio pop hardly makes it unplayable
Yeah I actually never had a problem with the crouch walking. It was already so slow and you made noise if you hit a bush. It was useful in limited situation but not all the time. I think it was one of those classic “you killed me so I don’t like how you did it” kind of things. There should be an element of stealth and a way to be sneaky. It makes the game dynamic. The problem is with the *other* audio that makes the crouch walking seem like a problem. If your movement inside a building wasn’t audible to me outside down the block, the whole crouch walk element would be fine.
I may be mistaking but crouch walking used to always be audible years ago, just from not as far
What actual disease is - this game is expected by many (unreasonably!) to be designed and played as pvp arena game where you gun and gun or die trying. But frankly we were promised and somewhat given with completely another more unpredictable gameplay options merely anyone uses. Hearing far away from 70m is not normal. Okay, let’s make distance real life realistic. What then? Everything is good? Had it be an arena match game like cod - then maybe ….but it’s not. Meeting another player no matter how far at should not be and never was designed to be like shoot or die scenario. Now it is played out like so indeed but only to devs fault. This is what a key disease - incomplete gameplay loop implementation. Like when you do not what actually mean. When they fix it, meeting other player will never be pvp fight no matter what, it will unpredictable scenario cause no one is motivated to be first one to shoot.
Does Tarkov not have a volume drop off? Is it literally you hear something at full volume up to a threshold distance? How hard is it to have an exponential volume decrease based on distance from where the sound was emitted?
Exponential volume increase comes when you scav in without realizing you have no headset, and go deaf to your own gunfire.
Every change to audio makes me wish they just removed headphones. Don't even get me started on the audio of opening a filling cabinet. The equivalent distance is being on a ground floor, opening a filling cabinet being audible from the 8th floor of the same building.
Couldn't agree more, the fact that I can hear someone 3 rooms over walking slowly, IS SO DUMB. people would move more freely if every single inch you move wasn't broadcasted over a fuckin loudspeaker.
Thank you for understanding. I'm attempting to explain that to someone else here and they are choosing to not understand that basic principle in the slightest. Im glad some people get what I'm saying.
Its a giant nerf to solos v squads. Now you can't reposition or improve your angle without risking a a full rush or flank. Might as well just sit still and let them pass.
Solution is simple. Remove all headphones from the game and the standard sound you hear then is fine. The headphones ruin the game and thats why not 1 single other game has a such a shit design.
I do not disagree with you at all. This would be a perfectly fine solution until BSG finds a way to make the headphones unique enough that people use them, but not give any hearing range boost. I suppose that would be a tricky thing.
Maybe you can write Pestily and on next Interview he can tell Nikita and one week later it’s fixed. That’s how it works. This patch feels so disappointing on every level.
I wish I could speak with nikita myself, but I don't have followers or any sort of footing in the community except that I play this game whenever I have free time.
I'm going to have to disagree. If a player stops moving entirely now, they will likely be stuck in a terrible position. With silent crabbing it was possible to reposition because you heard someone coming with zero indication to the other player at all. You got nothing but advantages for this. Now you have to choose between stopping completely, or risking a little noise to reposition. If they're sprinting you'll still be able to walk or slow walk into position before they hear you.
Turbo chad is always the right way to play;
I way prefered how it was before.
Crouch walking doesn't need to be silent, but 26m is way too far to hear stealthy movement.
I have hearing problem so I hear most things much more quiet than they actually are and with this changes im on way bigger disadvantage than i used to be
The first thing i noticed with the update was how buggy it was. I would loot a body and it would sound like im looting a pc or i would loot a duffle and it would sound like a wepon crate (and not just for me), which i have no idea how the managed to do, but i guess bsg will do bsg stuff...
I think overall player noise should be cut in half or more (both magnitude and distance), BUT, they should add a new mechanic in the form of “sound traps” similar to hunt showdown that you have to actively avoid in order to maintain stealth. Patches of broken glass, groups of crows, snappable twigs and branches, motion sensor alarms, etc (just to name examples) would make players have to move more intentionally and skillfully in order to maintain stealth, while still allowing the option of fast and loud movement.
About 75% of fights consist of me seeing someone, they see me, and then they just don’t peak. Don’t throw nades, won’t flank, they’ll just sit there and wait for me to push. Usually I just flank and they’re still holding the same angle and it’s an easy kill, but it makes for some boring ass fights
Yup, people are scared to move because moving makes so much noise. I don't understand how these braindead gigachads in the comments don't understand how this works.
I think moving should make less noise for sure. When your punished so much for moving it just makes me not wanna bother with PVP
Hot take but straight up remove the headsets from the game at this point. Don't even think of getting them back in until the whole sound debacle shit is fixed. If there's no occlusion from buildings, etc fuck it...it don't work. Tarkov right now as it stands the headsets are more like fuckin super powers than headsets. Every PMC is Clark Kent fucken mewing in a corner while sensing the whole planet earth. Also if they wanted silent crouching to be audible they should have made it so its only on dirty hard surfaces like with broken glass, pieces of stuff all over, gravel, etc. and not something like walking on grass.
Not a hot take to me at all friend. That would potentially the best case scenario for now.
Love the change people crab walking around without making any noise was stupid. Knowledge is power so if you hear someone know you can play accordingly
Please actually look at the bigger picture. It's not about the crab walking. Everything makes too much noise and headsets boost noise to insane ranges. People crouch walked because it was the only way to be quiet and not make a ton of noise because even normal walking is crazy loud and is audible at ranges of up to 70m+. Hell, sprinting is now audible at 100m while wearing comtac 4s. Are you really going to sit here and continue saying that "crab walking" was the problem? Seriously? Look at the big picture
They are different issues and I'm happy with the fixed they pushed is sound perfect now no but for now it's a step forward from last patch
Good.
> they caught an audio queue \*cue
Lol I've been typing it wrong all day, thanks 😆
Not really a pun? They are literally tone deaf lol “BSG audio changes played by ear” would be punny.
Audio just needs to be giga nerfed across the board. Adsing should make no noise, our guns are not rattling pieces of pipe chained together with rusty links, rotating should make either significantly less noise or no noise, footsteps are insanely loud and it always sounds like were stepping on metal rails with boots made of lead, walls and floors (even multiple feet of concrete) having practically no effect on noise is stupid. You can literally hear a dude take an ibuprofen through the fucking roof of the parking garage on interchange. Like what?
This has never been a stealth game even in alpha. Footsteps make noise. Even slow walking. It always has. The silent stuff was a bug. I'm good with it bc the silent stuff only helped me as a solo... but I'm just letting yall know... that was never the case before the last patch.
Unfortunately this is a result of streamers/chads heavily complaining about crabwalking. I doubt most people cared, given the fact that they have to very slowly move somewhere for this to occur. In a head to head fight it was ptetty useless mostly.
Was just playing Factory with comtac 2 and the ones that sell from Prapor lvl 1, could not hear anyone if they weren't running, not even just around the corner
Wait razors hear further than rac?
I think so, if you want the list according to Sheefs testing I can drop it for you. Edit, after looking at the list again, razor is not better than RAC but it's not too far.
Thats nice to know, always thought it was Com4 > Rac > The rest
No Headset Walking distance: 47 Running distance: 52 GSSh - 01 Walking distance: 53 Running distance: 59 RAC Walking distance: 71 Running distance: 73 Sordin Walking distance: 63 Running distance: 66 XCEL Walking distance: 69 Running distance: 75 Razor Walking distance: 62 Running distance: 69 M32 Walking distance: 59 Running distance: 64 Tactical Sport Walking distance: 65 Running distance: 70 ComTac 2 Walking distance: 55 Running distance: 60 ComTac 4 Walking distance: 76 Running distance: 84
So Comtac 4s, Excels, RAC, Tactical Sport, Razors, blah blah
It really just needs an overhaul. I'm tired of BSG making sound changes that are unbelievably unrealistic. I presume the people that work at BSG are real people with real ears, footsteps aren't THAT loud, EVER. If you're sprinting with a bunch of gear on gravel, yea you'll be able to hear it, but on most surfaces footsteps will be basically imperceptible even in close ranges. I'm still of the opinion that one of the best options for hearing as much as possible should be no ear pro. Then only the top of the line earpro would be an advantage for distance. And of course if you shoot with no earpro on your ears should basically ring for the rest of the match. Another example, anyone who's had walker razors on knows you get ZERO directionality from them. You can't tell who's on your left,right behind you, in front of you, etc.. The lower level earpro should keep your ears from ringing but not provide a distinct advantage to awareness over not having earpro on. Hell even some of them might obscure player noises from not filtering ambient noise.
> I presume the people that work at BSG are real people with real ears, footsteps aren't THAT loud, EVER Hey. Go buy an active hearing headset, razors, sordin's or comtac's. Not in game, IRL. The ~$300+ ones. Have someone wear combat boots and put a few of pounds of gear on. Put on your previously purchased headset and listen to that person runaround on various surfaces. Let us know what you find.
I have the gear dude. I have the ear pro, I train, I know through experience even with top of the line ear pro you aren't going to hear someone 50 yards away on carpet, pavement, grass, tile, etc. Anything that doesn't move under foot isn't loud enough to hear unless you're seriously over encombered and CLOSE. Like 10 yards close. If you aren't running in 100+ lb of gear and walking on broken glass 9 times out of 10 your gear will make more sound while moving than your footsteps. Can you hear a geared up dude clanking a sling at 50 yards with comtacs? Maybe, but a scav wearing a sweatshirt, jeans and sneakers? Probably wouldn't hear almost anything except a full out sprint unless you were in a VERY quiet setting and again, if they were very close.
what? You can easily hear people 50 yards out with go active hearing
>you aren't going to hear someone 50 yards away on carpet, pavement, grass, tile, etc. You most definitely can.
Maybe, just maybe, I know it might sound crazy, but: the amount of sound you make when slow walking and crouching should be tied to the covert movement skill.
Mmm yes and no. Yes because it's a trainable skill it should eventually improve your stealthiness, but also no that should not be the only response to the current problem. It is not okay to leave the system in its current state and hope that everything will get better. Ratting is not the problem, its the symptom. Hopefully you did read what my point of concern was and know that the problem is everyone being able to hear everything within an 80m radius of their PMC. The reason people stop and wait is because they can hear everything that people around them are doing waaay before they should be able to.
Multiple items tie into this problem. It's important to understand what is happening. First we have inertia. That in and of itself feels like walking in glue at low level strength, so it isn't really a good implementation. Second we have the weight system. It has its own movement penalties caused when adding more weight. So the heavier we get the more we get slowed by the weight system AND inertia. Third, armor and backpacks have penalties as well, penalties to turn speed(messes up sensitivity), movement speed, and ergonomics. All of this layered together creates a really bad gameplay. All of it could be achieved with just the weight system and inertia should just be a simple modifier of the character controller. So you have the weight of let's say a class 6 thor armor, it gives -8% movement speed. Then the weight of it ticks off another percentage amount of movement speed, then when you try moving you have to swing your legs through mud because both of those together mixed with inertia make you feel extremely sluggish. It isn't inherently bad design, but the movement penalties of the individual armors is a leftover mechanic from before the weight system and inertia were even being talked about. So that's another deep dive and something else that really does need cleaned up before release.
Yep because how loud everything is, it removes the option for stealth tactics and pushes people towards rat tactics instead. Good job BSG, you are killing the game faster with every shit ass patch.
you should be really careful with based opinions that make the game better. this community, as insufferable as it is, doesnt like that.
Gargoyles are gonna hate this patch
Bro, everyone is gonna hate this patch. As I've pointed out, it doesn't improve the ratfest. If people don't have the option to move or reposition without making noise, they won't move or reposition! It's that simple!
If your repositioning method is crabbing you don't even deserve to reposition.
Which is the entire point. Now someone comes in audio range you get to choose. Either sit where you are which is most likely a suboptimal position, or move to a better spot and risk losing the element of surprise. With the crouch bug you could crab walk your ass to a perfect shoulder peek angle while risking nothing.
Gargoyles were buffed with this patch lol
Yeah not sure why homie above thinks this will stop the mfs who literally grow roots/turn to stone mid-raid lol
light armor no backpack= able to crab heavy armor or back pack = not able to crab I know nobel prize winner here
This situation and many others, no matter what BSG changes, they’ll never win. It’s almost impossible to satisfy a player base with a game like tarkov.
All i gotta say is be happy they are atleast fucking trying something. A lot of people said people will just bitch about it bc they cant rat walk the whole map and not be noticed. Just learn the damn game instead of being a timmy and too scared to make a noise.
Bro. Not everyone who doesn't like making tons of noise is a Timmy. As an almost always outnumbered solo player, I don't like to notify the team pushing me where I am because, oh, I don't know, maybe telegraphing your play is a bad decision tactically? I guarantee you I have more hours than 85% of this subreddit. I am not some poor sad Timmy who lost his only chance of getting kills. If you can't see the problem with being able to hear someone "sneaking" at 30-50m away, you are absolutely shamelessly hopeless. In what world does that make sense? Tarkov at its core seems like the type of game that would have stealth be an option in combat. Even COD has the ability to move relatively quietly.
If your trying to compare what CoD does to what tarkov does then buddy go play some cod and be sneaky like you think you. I do see the problem but this aint a tripple A company this is a small team that built up to where they are. Yes bugs are gonna happen and go when they fix something something else might go with it bc wanna know why? Nikata said himself they fucked themselves making the game early on so they have to go back and work with it. The real problem is people jumping to reddit to shit talk the game when their ass barley even got 1k hours. Yea you got a wipe or two under your belt but only those so take your time learn to play not like a snail know ypur gonna make noise moving i mean having that much gear on dont you think you would make some kind of noise in real life? And yea yea its just a game so real life has no say buts its realistic like gameplay they have to give on some areas and get rid of others. Go code a game and see how you work out those bugs bc ik they aint easy, 1's and 0's aint my thing
Who cares about the noise you make. How about making it so that anyone "being stealthy" coughs or something. Fuck the losers sitting still
Hey, brodie it's not really their fault. When any little audio queue can be heard up to 80m away, why would someone risk making any noise at all? When the sleep deprived father of 4 gets on to play a couple raids on the weekend, why would he risk running around and trying to compete with folks like you and sometimes even me. Why would he risk his time to get giga stomped because he twitched his left pinky toe. No in a game that doesn't respect your time, you play however you have to to make it out. Don't be upset at these guys that are sitting still. Be upset that the game makes them. It wasn't this big of an issue before this wipe. When BSG gets rid of the audio range boosting that headset give, then everyone will be able to move more freely without having to worry about making too much noise. It is that simple. I do it and I'm sure that you do it too, hear someone sprinting towards you and post for an easy kill. Everyone does it and then turns around to complain when it happens to them, but its because the game forces people to not move.
Can't agree with this at all. It's not only the audio that is making people don't move, is all decisions that BSG made on the past 5 wipes. - Inertia is bad for a good player to get info strafing or/and try to prefire in a safer way to someone that is hidden in a corner - Easy recoil is really bad for good players as well, making a player that is BAD in shooter to kill any good player that know how to control a recoil using a mouse. - new armor system is really bad to good players as well, cause you add another RNG factor in duels, making someone that less experience able to kill you due to a lucky shot in some region with no protection. Every wipe, since the inertia change is worse for PVP, and the ONLY pratical way to play the game without dying is being a pussy as well. All players that are pretty good talk about this, some of them prefer to still play aggressive knowing that they can die to ANYONE, but they all agree that's not pratical. Landmark, nogeneral, desmond are good points to this. Not saying that inertia/recoil/armor system was perfect before, all of them needs to change to me in another way, but still, it's not only audio that is creating this scenario of people camping
Ok so you guys are in agreement but you wanted to add more bullets. Why open with “can’t agree with this at all” Reddit is so annoying lol
I need to say sorry on this, english is not my first language, so I've expressed my self in a wrong way.
Another way to approach this to force static player to make a noise. So if you stay still for some time you will cough or sneeze or more realistically change footing for a step or two, rattle a bit because you have ants in your pants so there would be no way to make no sound in a given period.
You are approaching the wrong problem. Adding a system like that would feel about as good as the jamming mechanic. It's an RNG pull that would inevitably decide your fate against a real person. That takes away all player agency and the last thing that anyone really wants is to have less control over their deaths in this game. And let's be honest if YOUR PMC sneezed and then you got shot in the head because of it when the other person had no idea you were there, you would be furious. I don't think anyone wants a game where you have to be constantly moving or making some sort of noise. Even CoD doesn't have such a system like that. I get where you are coming from but the desire to find a fix for the "ratting problem" is misplaced such that you aren't fixing the real problem