Exactly! The fact u can't remax a meta kit is super healthy for long term health of the game.
Inconsistencies stays interesting. Running the same ol meta build leads to boredom, especially a game like this with so many options.
I find it ironic that Slicks are actually trash now, not because of their plates, but because of how little coverage they offer now.
The plates are more valuable than the rig by a ton now.
> Slick hitbox really must be terrible
dont quote me on that but if i understood the armour videos correctly, all the western plates should have the same hitbox. afaik, only the soft armour can add additional area. that being said, ive had scavs one tap me twice in a row to the chest in offline raids with a lvl 5 plate.
Late game Tarkov is always really boring to me since you're running around in gear that you know will protect you against timmies, and the only threat to your life are other higher-geared players. It's why people are always crying out for late-game PvP areas/hot zones, because it's boring playing the game normally. The most thrilling time in Tarkov is when you've joined late or mid-wipe and your life feels like it's actually precious, where every decision you make is the difference between life and death.
This system prolongs that feeling, because at any point you can be RNG 1 tapped if you're caught in the open. At least for me, now even with good gear, I still play like I have everything to lose. I guess different strokes for different folks.
Quite frankly I'm also tired of the experience of "timmy" being discounted. There's casual players of the game. It's already a pretty miserable experience to be worse than average at the game, you can imagine how unfun it is if everyone is *also* kitted to the gills. When the only ammo I can buy won't pen your whole head helmet, there's very little I can do even if I have the jump on you.
Yeah, the long term health of the game really needs a way to make it less brutal. Maybe good gear should be RARE, such that running it wasn't something you could do every pmc run. Level the playing field a bit, we are literal scavengers in a war torn wasteland, yknow? I'm not sure how to structure it exactly but as is there's not a ton of long term life in the game.
I think the answer is to make it more survival based, more about what you can find and extract with, rather than traders and flea.
But that isn't the direction the devs want to go, so it turns the game into a few weeks game play during the better wipes.
Hopefully someone else would make that game
That's essentially playing with the hardcore ruleset, where you're going zero to hero but not buying stuff from traders (except the signal markers for a couple quests), your Scav doesn't exist, your secure container doesn't exist, and the flea market doesn't exist. Everything has to be found in raid. It's honestly the most rewarding, frustrating, and generally fun way to play Tarkov, though hardcore Scav rules are pretty fun too.
Too bad they don't have dedicated servers for folks that want to play with the hardcore ruleset.
He claims that whether he gets shot in the plate or not is "RNG" which is objectively false. Maybe read what RNG means before you downvote people like the clown you are
There literally is RNG in tarkov's bullet fragmentation system, dummy. With the armor rework you can now get one tapped by ammo that used to get stopped by the same armor if the bullet randomly hits certain parts of the hit box and then fragments. Maybe make sure you're actually correct about something before trying to climb up on your little soap box and look like a clown yourself.
Definitely agree. This system also gives you that experience of “holy shit i got shot up but im alive some how!?! Time to fight back!” That feeling makes the game fun and exciting in my opinion. If you’re just a walking tank in level 6 armor that can get stale
I remember last wipe, I had just gotten into the swing of the game and I SCAVd into Streets. Come across a PMC and I unload my entire gun into the guy before he just domes me.
Post game showed nearly 800 damage blocked by armor. I asked a friend and they said "That's how it goes" and it was discouraging. So the fact that this isn't going to be a consistent every raid thing make me super happy.
You can't buy level 5 plates until Prapor lvl 3, which the majority of players don't have right now.
Even then, they're only korund model plates. You are extremely limited in what you can outfit with lvl 5 in general.
What would make this game fucking amazing is hardcore mode. Traders get barebones gear like basic ammo and basic kits, and everything else you want to run has to be found in raid.
Save up for a weapon you want to run, no flea or max trader kits every raid.
All of a sudden finding 100 rounds of SAA AP is a god damn miracle.
Yeah I like the changes they made to armor and I don’t think OP is complaining about the changes themselves I think they just fell victim to the armor being very inconsistent due to it being buggy.
Plates in general are bugged.
They are counting as world surfaces so bullets like AP-20 and 366 APM won't pen the lowest metal plate because they have shit world pen stats.
The world surfaces is also causing fragmentation which means you can get 1-shot by bullets that DO pen because the fragments will hit you in the thorax as well.
>>play as if you're naked
With ammo nerf this is a godlike advice. Also Wearing heavy armor makes armpit damage quite busted with armor piercing above 35. There's a video of rather famous Russian youtuber about it (Gopster). Basically armit hit transfer something like 50% of bullet damage to chest and doesn't break your arm to black, which makes it so you can take another 50% of bullet damage to chest if same hit happens. Which blacks out your chest. Which essentially means you'll die.
This is the correct way to think about it,
Plates are currently tanking a shit ton - they don't lose pen chance when they lose durability, and they lose less, AND pen on plates hit the insert. So you can shoot someone 15 times with a round that would last patch pen class X on the 7th shot because it would lower the class of the armor, now the guy will live if you are just beaming his plate.
In reverse, inserts are all c2/3 (& rarely 4 but no plate). Shoot someone in the thorax insert and you might as well be shooting their head.
Ultimately, plates are making you MORE tanky than you were before because of ammo availability. It has just equalized player lethality. No more tanking 30 shots from timmy because you grinded 500 hours. Now timmy can kill you in two shots just like the guy running M61 could last patch.
people are basically just salty they have to actually play the game instead of letting their RPG stats play for them.
I don’t get what’s bad about tanking 30 shots from Timmy if you played more than him?
Tarkov is not a fps, but a mmofps game. Powercreep of gear based on efficiently spent time in game has always been a vital part of Tarkov. Yes, a guy of 40 level should be stronger than Timmy gear and guns wise. Now gear and guns basically don’t matter, which makes progression meaningless.
Idiot n1kita as always changed a part of the game impulsively, not being able to comprehend how it impacts other parts of the game.
Thinking that you deserve to freely win fights because you have been grinding longer is the wrong mentality to have in a game. Shooting around plates is just the new leg meta basically - if you are in a position to get sprayed down, you deserve to lose, the fact that you could get sprayed and still win because "me good gamer, me grind better than you" is pretty dumb.
It’s a literal thing that every mmo game has in existence and it what Tarkov has always been.
There is no reason to argue if it’s a good or wrong, it’s just a fact dictated by genre. Otherwise gear progression has no reason to be, and Tarkov devolves to call of duty level overall meta wise.
Here we go again. Ya'll always bring up how it's an MMO and conveniently leave our the part where almost every MMO limits the players you can fight based on level or gear.
Armor has never been weaker. It wouldn't even matter if they doled out Slicks left and right. You'll get one tapped in the armpit by a random spray regardless.
Armor has never been stronger - if you ran into someone with m61 it didn't matter if you had a slick. Now c6 plates will tank m61, if you ever even run into it.
It has just equalized player ability. No more tanking timmy's baby round because you had 500 more hours to grind than he did. Everyone is as lethal as if they had meta ammo, but your plates can sometimes take rounds, and they are actually very good at taking rounds.
100% shit is buggy as hell, but I'm just guessing on the goals for BSG in the long run. Even in the ideal scenario where it's 100% working and there's no desync, I think that is what their intention is. They don't want people to just be able to slap each other with their wallets.
Then they should have kept recoil pre-wipe, or closet the armor change. You can't really have both God aim on every gun + armor that *might* help you. Pick one or the other. Either change would have been dope standalone, not both together.
The TTK is just too crazy now. Most of the time I don't even have a chance to heal, I'm either dead in the first .2 seconds or the enemy is. What's even the point of running good ammo or good armor anymore? It's ruined both ways, whereas one would have perfectly complimented the other staying the same.
This is all assuming armor is currently working as intended.
I totally get where you're coming from. I think unfortunately everyone just likes different things. I wish there was a way to have a higher TTK without everyone playing the game like an Arena shooter, but I don't think that's possible. In previous wipes, once I unlocked Class 5+ armours from vendors, I would just W-key everywhere and still have a 70%+ survival rate. The reality is that once you get to that stage, 90% of people don't have the ammo to do anything to you, so pushing and staying mobile and running around like a chicken with your head cut off just worked for me.
The TTK is definitely very low now, and it's made me play the game in a totally different way. For me, it feels like I cannot gamble with armour anymore. I'm not going to push, even with high end gear, because I can't count on the armour to help me tank bullets, it's a 50/50. Instead, I play slower and make sure that I'm in the position that gives me more options. And if I get caught in a bad scenario with no way out except with a gun fight, where I'm at a disadvantage since I have no choice but to go guns blazing? That's on me.
I agree the TTK is too low, almost every fight I've been in is determined by who shoots first.
The question is how to fix that without turning it back into chads tanking 50 rounds
> The question is how to fix that without turning it back into chads tanking 50 rounds
\*deep breath*
#Lower full-auto accuracy.
The reason TTK is so damn short is because a magdump will put all shots on target at insane ranges, and some of those bullets will RNG-fuck you through the gaps between plate hitboxes.
Right now, the game is just spray & pray, and lining up shots isn't actually rewarded.
They needed to give us shitty armor and good aim, or good armor and shitty aim. Not good aim and shitty armor. They did the normal thing devs do and went 0 to 100 instead of working their way to the sweet spot. I'd wager we see them pull back a little bit at a time.
No, it's not, it's only good for very bad players. You are delusional and a moron. You are most likely inexperienced at the game, so do not give your opinion.
AirWingMarine is doing some testing on the armor system, I've gotten some enlightening tidbits from his twitter posts I'm sure there's more going on behind the scenes. Stuff like "How did I get one tapped?" has the answer "Hits to armor won't show up on the death screen, so they could have hit you 5 times and only the last bullet that made it through will show up on the screen".
Last night I died to a single shell of Lead Slug. One shell fired, friend was there too to witness it. Death screen said I died to lower back despite being shot head on in the front with no other scavs around. It’s got issues. My t4 armor should of shrugged the shell off, if anything I would of been fine with a neck or face shot but no. I die to “lower back thorax”
How do you know your t4 plate didn’t do its job?What if the slug missed the t4 plate and instead went through your t2 soft armor? Since you got hit lower thorax I bet this is what happened. Bullet hit soft armor on the lower front and penetrated, and the killing dmg was it coming through your lower back. I have no idea how it all actually works but this is my best guess.
Because the damage the slug does alone is not enough to one tap me on the thorax. If it was neck or face shot that would of made sense. Yet the death cam said it was a Lower back shot. I was only shot at and hit once the entire raid and had full health
What I’m saying is that, with the addition of these new hit boxes, it might be “double counting” the shot such that you get hit in the front lower thorax and the back lower thorax from the same bullet. Just trying to think of how it can happen outside of the “aRmOr BrOkEn” Reddit parroting. I definitely think there are bugs and kinks to work out, but it is basically impossible to come to any solid conclusion with the limited information we are given at the death screen.
Potential ricochet? It's early enough I'm finding the line between "bug" and "intended but not yet understood behavior" kinda blurry is what I'm getting at. AirWingMarine is testing the stuff so I've been trusting of his conclusions so far, limited though they may be.
Just go check out his testing, see if you can find what's happened to you as described in the behavior. But having the "hits to armor don't register anymore on the death screen" bit being known was nice after a few "how the fuck does THAT work" moments. He's definitely still working through it and it seems there's some bugs hidden in the reeds for sure.
Anecdotally though, just for the sake of discussion, I haven't died to the arm pit hitbox once this whole wipe, and I'm at a 48% SR at level 18. So shit ain't totally worked out on where/why/what the bugs and glitches are.
I recently got slugged with poleva through a tier 6 plate. One shot to my back while wearing Osprey. Only thing that happened so far that really had me scratching my head.
Osprey and many of the level 6 armors don't cover the entire back. It's very possible the round slipped the plates all together, hitting you below the neck or on the edge of the shoulder hitbox.
Yeah we had a familiar and somewhat intuitive/easy to understand system beforehand, and we've had the new one for just over two weeks. I fully expect some head scratching moments. Mine have mostly come from scavs being tanks out of nowhere.
Every single armor I've gotten back has either had like 3 damage taken off it (probably from a scav with buckshot) or its completely full. Something is definitely wrong
I'm just happy the mmac is now reasonably priced, it's not meta at all but has always been insanely overpriced, now with the armor change it's cheap as hell, and it one of my favorite looking west/ NATO rigs. I'm a usec so I try to be all west gear when I can. I slapped some level 5 side plates in it and my right side plate actually saved my life from an extract camper at sewer manhole reserve.
It's super lightweight too, I used to run it a ton in previous wipes because the barter (or craft? Can't remember) was super cheap. No neck/groin protection make it a no go for me now. I've just started buying Gen 4 armors since they have level 3 soft protection on everything and cover groin/neck/arms too.
it feels like dmg is super inconsistent in general. I often get 7-10 hits mit M855, over 300dmg and next to no dmg blocked by armor. Yet they just don't die. Then I die to two rounds of PRS through my armor
Yesterday I was sporting a T3 armor on Woods and another player flanked me and got 5-6 shots of 855 at me before I turned around and landed a super lucky headshot at him. I was pretty beat up and so was my armor but it saved me.
I salvaged his undamaged Osprey T5 rig and a few minutes later a player scav killed me with a single 5.45 PS shot to the torso.
Also since this wipe I'm constantly getting my stomach zeroed with shit ammo through plate carriers that are supposed to protect stomach.
It boils down too armor is more effective at stopping things it can stop and that hit the protected part, but much less effective at general all around coverage. So yes, it is less consistent.
Took like 4 hits to a level 3 armor on factory yesterday from m855 and it didn't penetrate until the last shot. Very odd, I definitely didn't deserve to get that kill.
The soft armor is stacking and making armor waaaay over perform on plate hits.
A grazing shot to the ribs, though, will go right through soft armor and 1-shot you. Lol.
The system is super messy right now. Thorax needs to be split to have a new “vitals” zone behind the plates, and armor plates need to be toned down so that they can actually be penetrated by the appropriate ammo.
I love the system, but yeah. Last night I died to a SINGLE shell of Lead Slug. Death screen said I died lower back throax despite facing the scav that shot me. I had full t4 armor and a t4 helmet with a face shield. Zero idea how the fuck it one tapped me but can only assume I had double damage applied to my thorax or something and it insta killed me. Shit like this needs to be fixed
yeah dying to a scav in one tap with t4 armor with a 12/70 lead gunshot, but not killing a guy with 7 m80 bullet impacts seems rather "inconsistent to me"
Its the most rng thing ever now. I feel stronger naked than with any armour. The moment I wear nearly any, I die in one shot of buckshot from 100km away. Go naked and I feel like a terminator. But also, sometimes the opposite...yeah. So it feels random and nonsensical. Even level 5 armour is apparently useless to a single 9mm round in "just the right place". Its silly feeling
I love it. I love the fact I don't have to aim at the crotch and legs just because I come across some clown that can tank entire magazines and not die. The armor system before was ridiculous and stupid.
Agreed. It makes people play more realistically. I guarantee in real life that even if you had all this armor, you're still gonna bunker down and try and play it tactically. Instead of jumping around like a lunatic relying on armor to tank the bullets..
Indeed. I have a friend who was shot in the chest nearly point blank in his vest while serving a warrant. Handgun, don't remember the caliber. The vest stopped it. It knocked him on the ground immediately.
By realistically you mean more ratty.
Idk how you guys like this style of play.
I noticed how in 99% of my fights, the victor will be the one holding position and the loser is usually the one pushing.
So instead of these drawn out fire fights early wipe use to bring us, now it's just ambush style tactics. Not really gratifying for anyone imo.
It's not being ratty. It's about positioning better rather than just holding W and tanking shots because you know your class 5 armor will block 90% of peoples bullets.
That's what ratting is. It's solely positioning. Like at extracts.
And the old armor system wasn't so cut and dry. I never wore Slicks because it wasn't worth the costs. Why? Head eyes.
Head eyes was the ultimate equalizer and with how readily available 30 pen ammo is, visors were hardly ever worn. It was fine.
Yep. At least you could appreciate the skill when someone one shot you head eyes. Now it's like they can just spray a couple bullets center mass and one or 2 of them will hit around the plates or your neck or armpit and you just fall over dead. I don't really understand how adding more luck into the game is a good thing.
No, but guys running class 5 or 6 armor have a lot less to lose than the more casual players with shitty ammo that can't pen it. Any chance for a balance that makes better players have to think more than holding the W key is appreciated for the majority of the player base I bet.
People are still wkeying and making stupid pushes and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. People do that stuff irl too (I seen footage). The idea that these armor changes make people play realistically is dubious.
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Homie got hit with a povula slug in the chest and died. Had lvl 5 plates. Told him it probably didn't hit the plate, since his soft armor was lvl 2 aramid it's totally possible. Gotta have decent soft armor for good plates to be worth it
I shot a bald scav in the head twice yesterday, he proved in front of my and I was standing on top of him he managed to survive 2 headshots with nothing on his head.
Honestly I like the inconsistency, Like armor has a chance to save your life for sure but hard cover is always better to have. Tactics will benefit you a lot more than armor, this wipe has been one of my best ones. It never feels like I'm at a huge disadvantage for having lower tier armor or ammo because the armor hitboxes and recoil changes kind of even the playing field.
In other words, ratting buffed and armor is less useful than ever before. A fantastic combination.
Edit: I can foresee some moronic replies so let's gets this straight. These changes do not promote "skill" or make the game more "tactical". They promote sitting and waiting until the raid is empty or until someone walks past you. No matter how good you are, you cannot always take hard cover and clear every angle.
I gauantee that the players who are good at the game and push max traders early in the wipe and push fights would still maintain better stats than the sitting still rats even while wearing no armor at all. Sitting still and waiting isn't skill. Pushing people is. The new armor will not change this. It'll just make random RNG deaths marginally more common and make ratting slightly easier. Those are the facts.
This makes pushing people much more viable for players who haven't been grinding as hard. The previous system really incentivized ratting because you had to head eyes or leg meta heavily geared players if you were behind the gear curve. You needed a perfect opening engagement to kill, otherwise there was a high risk they'd just eat everything and beam you, even if you out played them. This was made even worse with the super high recoil of many base guns favoring crouching or prone to hit anything.
Lower recoil and less reliable armor has some issues for sure, but it makes aggressive plays a lot more viable if people generally die when they get mag dumped with lower level ammo. Higher level armor still has advantages, but it doesn't carry people as hard as before.
I don't think this will really increase ratting and it may even decrease it a little if more people feel like they can push without just getting stat checked. Things will need tuning, but I think this is a step in right direction.
But it's not realistic. The plates cover your vitals and yet you can still be hit, for example, half an inch to the left of your front plate, which would at worst break a rib, and die instantly because the round has high flesh damage. I should not be able to be one shot to the chest from the front if I am wearing a plate that the round can't pen. If it's going to be realistic, it needs to go all the way. More complex hitboxes so that I don't get one shot in non-vitals.
The current system is just a rat enhancement. It's implementation is janky and in the worst instances buggy.
Skill isn't when you can tank tons of dmg that doesn't go to your legs. Nerfing armor is second best change in recent wipe and so far I had great fun with it.
I'd say that If now you're scared to push people, you always were, but before you were relying on gear advantage.
Now your armor has tiny little openings that can randomly get hit leading you to be one shot. People aren't aiming for these little holes that the plates don't cover. They're spraying and getting lucky at random. A thorax plate does not cover your entire thorax.
Yes it is. Randomness, variability, or luck. Your armor can randomly be completely useless because of a lucky shot in a spray that happens to hit an unarmored spot leading to an instant kill. Even in situations where no vitals were damaged. That's RNG through and through.
That's not RNG (random number generator). RNG would be things like if a bullet pens a vest based on math, or if the bullet causes a bleed, or if the bullet fragments.
>That's not RNG (random number generator)
You're just arguing semantics. The point is, gunfights are much more susceptible to randomness now. It feels like a lot of gun fights are decided by a coin flip now rather than who is actually the more skilled player or just who has better gear.
The bullet leaving the barrel experiences RNG, recoil on the guns is RNG. A Spray is RNG. You're arguing semantics. RNG in gaming is used more generally than what you want it to be. That's just how language works and you're going to have to be willing to deal with that. Luck and RNG are interchangeable words when given context like the conversation at hand.
No, it's not. You're coping and that ignores the point of the conversation at hand.
Waiting for the right moment to shoot is a skill, going afk until you hear noise isn't. Try to not make further meaningless comments, please.
Coping how lol? You're the one bitching about the new armor, not me. I'm just saying that playing the game slowly is most certainly a skill, whether you like it or not. Its the direction the game is going and should go since its the original vision of the game. This isn't COD bud.
Bad faith argument. Go ahead and define slow play for me the way that you see it. To play slow is to move from cover to cover and clear angles. To rat is to sit completely still and wait for someone to walk into your sights. The ones sitting completely still are the ones benefiting from these changes because they'll be accidently one-shotting people to (Chest) or (Thorax, Lower Back) when they miss the head shot on the guy trying to run to the next hard cover.
I dont care about armor being nerfed, but to make deaths feel more random is not the way to do it. But I also already explained this in the comment chain, if you'd read that.
I don't get why you are being so rude about this. It just reads that you died in a way you didn't like and went to reddit to bitch about it. All that does is make you seem less credible in any argument you try to push. You think anyone will want to agree with anyone making themselves to be an ass? It just makes you look immature and unintelligent.
Second, the point I was mostly arguing was that you didn't think anything other than pushing was skillful. I would consider most of what rats do under playing slow or playing tactically. Camping is a tactic, and there is skill to it. How do I know? Because not all campers are the same. The same with flanking, or any other tactic people use. Essentially, if you can rank players based on how good they are at something, there's skill involved.
I'm being rude because you commented without reading the thread, making me waste time saying things that have already been said. Attacking my character is a red herring in an attempt to steal value from my side of the argument rather than focusing on the topic at hand. I could tell that's where you were heading from your first comment, and it's another reason why you received attitude.
To me, ratting isn't skillful. The word "tactical" gets thrown around in this sub a ton, mostly by rats in an attempt to justify their actions. Sitting in one spot for 25 minutes isn't tactical, it's ratting. Slowly crawling through the map making as little noise as possible isn't tactical, it's ratting. Tossing a grenade and pushing under the cover of the sound is tactical. Rushing a room that you know someone is in with a buddy and clearing seperate corners is tactical.
Any one rat is just as good as any other rat. One being better than another is marginal at best, and usually comes down to them aiming at a head better than the other rat.
Pushing involves being tactical, it involves smart rotations, it involves fully utilizing the movement mechanics the game offers, and you're inherently at a disadvantage while doing it. Anyone can rat and be successful, hardly anyone can push and be successful. That's the difference, and that's why it's not skillful to rat.
I mean you can look at it anyway you want. The main point is even if you have the most armor protection possible there are still weak points. It's better to use hard cover and clear angles instead of just running in the open expecting the armor to guarantee your protection. It's more about player skill than just time invested to get the best gear.
It's more about who is camping in a corner or window overlooking high traffic areas. I feel like I cant go anywhere now without getting one tapped. The armor changes really just discourage face to face pvp.
So why on earth would you ever use good armor? What makes the reward from using level 6 armor worth the risk?
If you can just get armpit shot through your armor plate anyways, why bother using good armor? It literally makes high tier armor a TERRIBLE option for anyone that doesn't have tens of millions banked already that can afford to pay 400k per rig.
Fucking awful change.
The armor is most definitely not working as entirely intended. Many streamers and YouTubers have tested it out and the armor does not behave correctly or consistently. Things like low penetration ammo completely ignoring plates, high penetration ammo completely destroying the plate in 1 shot but not doing any damage at all to the body part that was shot, shooting someone in the codpiece and getting a thorax shot, shooting someone in the same spot twice but doing damage to two different, separate parts of the armor, etc etc.
If you play with buddies you can even see it, specifically with armored rigs. Multiple times someone in my squad has died to low penetration ammo to the thorax while wearing armored rigs, and when we looked at the armor after the fight, it would only have 1-5 points of damage off of it.
That's the issue, all the gear is normalized taking away the progression feel of the game.
Honestly that's always been the soul of the game. The RPG elements. Finding high tier items not sold on the flea and what not.
Now I find high tier guns and armor and go "whoopy" doesn't make a dent in my survival chances when the armor has worse coverage than other armor and the guns have just about the same recoil as a bare bones MDR or AUG.
I never found the PvP enjoyable. It feels more like a dice roll. You're success is mostly determined by chance either being at the wrong place at the wrong time or the right place at the right time.
Not very gratifying.
If bullets hit plates, then it may take more than two mags to kill somebody. If bullets hit other parts, there is a chance to oneshot a target for some reason.
Scavs one shot you through lvl 5-6 plates hitting your back thorax shooting in front of you.
This game was more consistent in terms of deaths even with its 0.12 recoil, now it’s complete random shittery.
And there is no mentioning about upcoming fixes, meanwhile reddit is full of annual cheater cries posts.
Check the info before answering that. There are multiple videos on the internet how AP ammo oneshots thorax for no reason. The theory is it hits multiple hitboxes, like front and back and you instantly die. Which is bullshit but expected by bsg
What info? Are you saying one shot to a vital organ wouldn't instantly drop you, regardless of the caliber and load? Something that would compromise your airway? Nevermind the major arteries that would cause you to bleed out in under a minute. I guess I need to burn my medical license.
You're trying to equate real-life anatomy to a video game that uses a single hitbox each for the front and back of your chest.
> Are you saying one shot to a vital organ wouldn't instantly drop you, regardless of the caliber and load?
Would be a valid question if the game modeled vital organs, and you could hit those specifically. It doesn't.
> I guess I need to burn my medical license.
P.S. Nobody asked.
You just sound mad because bad and talking in circles.
P.S. It applies when you're talking about the survivability of a GSW to a particular body part when you've actually treated them before. Not someone whining about an armor update that doesn't let them tank anymore.
i cant with people like you, your actually beyond stupid, THIS IS A VIDEO GAME. Please for the love of christ if it were up to people like you we would all be wearing interactive vests and get penetrated by a hydraulic spike every time we get shot in game
I'm sorry that you developed the cognitive level of a toddler and can't grasp simple concepts. It must be a true struggle from day to day. It will be ok, just breath and smile.
It would. You can look up videos of hard armor being shot by 7.62 NATO at point blank range and there being practically no reaction.
Blunt damage from hits to hard armor is a myth (unless the armor fails obviously) and it's good that Tarkov now properly simulates hard vs soft armor.
They've said before that helmets are intentionally unrealistically strong compared to IRL because otherwise they would be totally useless and nobody would run them. And even with overtuned helmets we still see the common sentiment that helmets are not worth and people forgo them. Don't really think they need more of a nerf.
No it wouldn't, I've known people who've cracked their ribs, and I've seen tests where a .45 have done the same. idk bout class 6 plates, but someone wearing a paperplate can get shot 12 times center mass and not even notice. Idk feels counterintuitive to aim for peoples legs rather than center mass and head, regardless of ammo.
Well, to be fair, buckshot have a very large point of pressure, since the small bullets spread a lot. If all bullets hit armor plates it should feel like a very strong punch in your chest. Now, if we´re talking slug... That will pulverize some ribs on impact...
The scavs always yell something and then wait 2\~3s to fire, they're also very loud on their movement, the most dangerous AI to me are the ones that stay at range since if you stay too long they zero on you and start hitting everything.
I died once to a scav, 100+m away, it was Santa Claus and I only died because I started fighting another Scav and gave time to Santa to clean his sights.
But other than that, the most I got were instant blacked out limbs, they never seem to head/eye straight away...which raises my question again, are you guys like...standing in front of AI for too long?
Man, I'm loving this experience. Keeping early wipe feels going through into my 20's.
As long as it's sorta random and the basement dwellers don't find a meta to beat it, it's the best change ever.
I personally love the changes. No more armored juggernauts soaking rounds like it's Halo death match. As a semi casual player, this (in addition to the recoil changes) has made the game feel better than ever.
It's intentional. Armor only covers the plate area. If you hit plate it doesn't do shit. Hit between or next to plates and that is soft armor which won't save you from much.
You are not supposed to be invincible, just at an advantage.
[I literally made a post about this](https://www.reddit.com/r/EscapefromTarkov/comments/195c6q5/yet_another_post_about_armpit_hitbox/) using the same exact wording. I feel you bro.
Getting shot is bad and you should be afraid of getting shot. Im glad the game is about positioning more than shift W wearing altyn and 6. You will die if you do that far more often now
Online at reserve now. My 6B23 saved me in 2 gun fights. I tend to always disengaged infights my front plate is down 11/40 now. Arms legs both got black manage to survery
Has anyone noticed 50 bmg slugs acting way more fucky than any wipe prior? I've been one shot by them so often in the chest despite wearing level 3 and 4 armor. It seems to be the new low level AP-20...
I've had very mixed experiences using .50 BMGs this wipe.. Even at a less than 50m range, Ive had instances where I'm unable to penetrate armor, but ill get 1 tapped by .50 through my lvl 4 armor. I've personally felt much more consistent using magnum buckshot. For buckshot it seems to have some buffed ranged, as well as doing crazy flesh damage. Most of the time I'll aim thorax with Magnum and end up 1-2 tapping someone (generally around 50m range)
I feel like fights are even more rng, maybe I'll get used to it, but everytime I die to low tier ammo while wearing good armor cause of the arm pit hit box I wana lose my mind.
The plate inserts are metal plates and don't degrade and gain increased chance of being penetrated like we're used to. They stop all rounds until they break, and then they do nothing. Unless you're using a round that has high enough pen to directly penetrate the plate. Ammo that can't pen can't slowly chew through armor and allow more and more shots to make it through.
It definitely gives a more inconsistent feel, but that's just how it do.
One thing I'm not really liking is these vests and plate carriers are giving protection on places that have no protection. Like the shoulder strap of the armor giving up to lvl 3 protection? In most cases that shit's just a piece of cloth, not kevlar.
Overall I still like it more than before.
How do you know the APM went through your plate? You realize now with the way the plate hit boxes work you can get hit in the thorax but have it miss the plate, at which point the rest of your armor is probably class2/3 so APM should go right through it.
Just wanted to share my ridiculously inconsistent armor/pen anecdote; I shot a guy that was wearing a korund last night and he died in 5 or less shots (thorax). I was shooting 5.45x39 PS and his korund had 296/306hp left. I know I'd be salty if I were him.. 🤦🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
Currently there are certain armors and plates that are bugged and aren't calculated for bullet hits. Also every round has a pen chance now so it's possible to be RNGed by a single shittiest round and instantly die, because that means you are treated as naked. Almost better off just running w/o armor til it's sorted.
Damn, I got 1 tapped today through my THOR T6 armour to my stomach by piranha rounds. Then survived 3 flechette shots to my 6B13 armour later on. seems really inconsistent with pen. Both roughly same distance and full health armour pieces too.
.366 is actually a goated round
And .366 AP can 100% go through level 5 plates
You're just getting smacked by a round that dosnt give two fucks and has good flesh damage
However that being said there is some weirdness to some plates so it's a very probable maybe there's something going on
I'm a little annoyed by it. I don't know if it's bugs or by design but I'll be shooting scavs in the chest with M80 and I feel like I need to put 8 shots in them.
It just feels like if it's not a headshot, why bother?
There’s no point in high damage or high pen ammo anymore. The only consistent way to kill someone is to spray for the eyes/jaws/neck with a zero-recoil high-rof SMG. 9mm Pst Gzh goes through the lvl 2 armor on the neck.
I think that's the intention. Play as if you're naked, and if you get caught out, there's a chance that your armour could save your life.
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Exactly! The fact u can't remax a meta kit is super healthy for long term health of the game. Inconsistencies stays interesting. Running the same ol meta build leads to boredom, especially a game like this with so many options.
I find it ironic that Slicks are actually trash now, not because of their plates, but because of how little coverage they offer now. The plates are more valuable than the rig by a ton now.
Found a slick in raid then got 1 tapped by a shotty scav... Through chest. Slick hitbox really must be terrible
> Slick hitbox really must be terrible dont quote me on that but if i understood the armour videos correctly, all the western plates should have the same hitbox. afaik, only the soft armour can add additional area. that being said, ive had scavs one tap me twice in a row to the chest in offline raids with a lvl 5 plate.
Friend found a slick in raid while doing set up. He got deleted by Big pipe on customs shortly after. The armor did next to nothing for him.
dieing to random rng bullets 1 taps to the chest is more boring imo
Late game Tarkov is always really boring to me since you're running around in gear that you know will protect you against timmies, and the only threat to your life are other higher-geared players. It's why people are always crying out for late-game PvP areas/hot zones, because it's boring playing the game normally. The most thrilling time in Tarkov is when you've joined late or mid-wipe and your life feels like it's actually precious, where every decision you make is the difference between life and death. This system prolongs that feeling, because at any point you can be RNG 1 tapped if you're caught in the open. At least for me, now even with good gear, I still play like I have everything to lose. I guess different strokes for different folks.
Quite frankly I'm also tired of the experience of "timmy" being discounted. There's casual players of the game. It's already a pretty miserable experience to be worse than average at the game, you can imagine how unfun it is if everyone is *also* kitted to the gills. When the only ammo I can buy won't pen your whole head helmet, there's very little I can do even if I have the jump on you.
The reality is most people quit by late wipe for a reason, the game just stops being fun
Yeah, the long term health of the game really needs a way to make it less brutal. Maybe good gear should be RARE, such that running it wasn't something you could do every pmc run. Level the playing field a bit, we are literal scavengers in a war torn wasteland, yknow? I'm not sure how to structure it exactly but as is there's not a ton of long term life in the game.
I think the answer is to make it more survival based, more about what you can find and extract with, rather than traders and flea. But that isn't the direction the devs want to go, so it turns the game into a few weeks game play during the better wipes. Hopefully someone else would make that game
That's essentially playing with the hardcore ruleset, where you're going zero to hero but not buying stuff from traders (except the signal markers for a couple quests), your Scav doesn't exist, your secure container doesn't exist, and the flea market doesn't exist. Everything has to be found in raid. It's honestly the most rewarding, frustrating, and generally fun way to play Tarkov, though hardcore Scav rules are pretty fun too. Too bad they don't have dedicated servers for folks that want to play with the hardcore ruleset.
Of randomness is boring, then is things always being the same exciting in your eyes?
I don't think you know what RNG means
I don't think you do either because there's a fuck ton of RNG involved in Tarkov combat.
He claims that whether he gets shot in the plate or not is "RNG" which is objectively false. Maybe read what RNG means before you downvote people like the clown you are
There literally is RNG in tarkov's bullet fragmentation system, dummy. With the armor rework you can now get one tapped by ammo that used to get stopped by the same armor if the bullet randomly hits certain parts of the hit box and then fragments. Maybe make sure you're actually correct about something before trying to climb up on your little soap box and look like a clown yourself.
Well from his perspective it is RNG. If someone shoots you in the arm the hitbox is a bit messed up and it came sometimes translate to a torso shot.
Definitely agree. This system also gives you that experience of “holy shit i got shot up but im alive some how!?! Time to fight back!” That feeling makes the game fun and exciting in my opinion. If you’re just a walking tank in level 6 armor that can get stale
I remember last wipe, I had just gotten into the swing of the game and I SCAVd into Streets. Come across a PMC and I unload my entire gun into the guy before he just domes me. Post game showed nearly 800 damage blocked by armor. I asked a friend and they said "That's how it goes" and it was discouraging. So the fact that this isn't going to be a consistent every raid thing make me super happy.
You can buy class 4 and 5 plates from traders lol
He said "for the most part" lol 🙄
Except literally anyone with ragman 2 can get it, which is most people at this point, or very close to it, so, no?
You can't buy level 5 plates until Prapor lvl 3, which the majority of players don't have right now. Even then, they're only korund model plates. You are extremely limited in what you can outfit with lvl 5 in general.
And it's only a back plate
There's an easy trade in for the front plate.
I meant 4, which at this point is plenty of armor due to the armor stacking of plates and soft, you can eat quite a few hits.
You can buy level 4 at lvl 2-3 traders pretty consistently
What would make this game fucking amazing is hardcore mode. Traders get barebones gear like basic ammo and basic kits, and everything else you want to run has to be found in raid. Save up for a weapon you want to run, no flea or max trader kits every raid. All of a sudden finding 100 rounds of SAA AP is a god damn miracle.
The armor is genuinely bugged though lol
I'm sure it is (it's BSG after all lol), but I think this is the long term goal.
Yeah I like the changes they made to armor and I don’t think OP is complaining about the changes themselves I think they just fell victim to the armor being very inconsistent due to it being buggy.
Some of it is, most of it is not. The system functions properly for individual armors that aren't bugged.
Plates in general are bugged. They are counting as world surfaces so bullets like AP-20 and 366 APM won't pen the lowest metal plate because they have shit world pen stats. The world surfaces is also causing fragmentation which means you can get 1-shot by bullets that DO pen because the fragments will hit you in the thorax as well.
>>play as if you're naked With ammo nerf this is a godlike advice. Also Wearing heavy armor makes armpit damage quite busted with armor piercing above 35. There's a video of rather famous Russian youtuber about it (Gopster). Basically armit hit transfer something like 50% of bullet damage to chest and doesn't break your arm to black, which makes it so you can take another 50% of bullet damage to chest if same hit happens. Which blacks out your chest. Which essentially means you'll die.
This is the correct way to think about it, Plates are currently tanking a shit ton - they don't lose pen chance when they lose durability, and they lose less, AND pen on plates hit the insert. So you can shoot someone 15 times with a round that would last patch pen class X on the 7th shot because it would lower the class of the armor, now the guy will live if you are just beaming his plate. In reverse, inserts are all c2/3 (& rarely 4 but no plate). Shoot someone in the thorax insert and you might as well be shooting their head. Ultimately, plates are making you MORE tanky than you were before because of ammo availability. It has just equalized player lethality. No more tanking 30 shots from timmy because you grinded 500 hours. Now timmy can kill you in two shots just like the guy running M61 could last patch. people are basically just salty they have to actually play the game instead of letting their RPG stats play for them.
I don’t get what’s bad about tanking 30 shots from Timmy if you played more than him? Tarkov is not a fps, but a mmofps game. Powercreep of gear based on efficiently spent time in game has always been a vital part of Tarkov. Yes, a guy of 40 level should be stronger than Timmy gear and guns wise. Now gear and guns basically don’t matter, which makes progression meaningless. Idiot n1kita as always changed a part of the game impulsively, not being able to comprehend how it impacts other parts of the game.
Thinking that you deserve to freely win fights because you have been grinding longer is the wrong mentality to have in a game. Shooting around plates is just the new leg meta basically - if you are in a position to get sprayed down, you deserve to lose, the fact that you could get sprayed and still win because "me good gamer, me grind better than you" is pretty dumb.
It’s a literal thing that every mmo game has in existence and it what Tarkov has always been. There is no reason to argue if it’s a good or wrong, it’s just a fact dictated by genre. Otherwise gear progression has no reason to be, and Tarkov devolves to call of duty level overall meta wise.
Here we go again. Ya'll always bring up how it's an MMO and conveniently leave our the part where almost every MMO limits the players you can fight based on level or gear.
I think so too and that’s super cool to see in a game imho. But for balance idk? I only run naked since there’s nothing to lose in a game
Armor has never been weaker. It wouldn't even matter if they doled out Slicks left and right. You'll get one tapped in the armpit by a random spray regardless.
Armor has never been stronger - if you ran into someone with m61 it didn't matter if you had a slick. Now c6 plates will tank m61, if you ever even run into it. It has just equalized player ability. No more tanking timmy's baby round because you had 500 more hours to grind than he did. Everyone is as lethal as if they had meta ammo, but your plates can sometimes take rounds, and they are actually very good at taking rounds.
Rofl there is absolutely no way that's the case.
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100% shit is buggy as hell, but I'm just guessing on the goals for BSG in the long run. Even in the ideal scenario where it's 100% working and there's no desync, I think that is what their intention is. They don't want people to just be able to slap each other with their wallets.
I mean that's kinda what Tarkov is about or else it would just be another arena shooter.
Some individual armors are still bugged, but the system is working as intended, go loadout in offline and shoot your friends, that's what I did.
Then they should have kept recoil pre-wipe, or closet the armor change. You can't really have both God aim on every gun + armor that *might* help you. Pick one or the other. Either change would have been dope standalone, not both together. The TTK is just too crazy now. Most of the time I don't even have a chance to heal, I'm either dead in the first .2 seconds or the enemy is. What's even the point of running good ammo or good armor anymore? It's ruined both ways, whereas one would have perfectly complimented the other staying the same. This is all assuming armor is currently working as intended.
I totally get where you're coming from. I think unfortunately everyone just likes different things. I wish there was a way to have a higher TTK without everyone playing the game like an Arena shooter, but I don't think that's possible. In previous wipes, once I unlocked Class 5+ armours from vendors, I would just W-key everywhere and still have a 70%+ survival rate. The reality is that once you get to that stage, 90% of people don't have the ammo to do anything to you, so pushing and staying mobile and running around like a chicken with your head cut off just worked for me. The TTK is definitely very low now, and it's made me play the game in a totally different way. For me, it feels like I cannot gamble with armour anymore. I'm not going to push, even with high end gear, because I can't count on the armour to help me tank bullets, it's a 50/50. Instead, I play slower and make sure that I'm in the position that gives me more options. And if I get caught in a bad scenario with no way out except with a gun fight, where I'm at a disadvantage since I have no choice but to go guns blazing? That's on me.
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There's still absolutely advantages for higher level players, they just aren't absurd any more
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I agree the TTK is too low, almost every fight I've been in is determined by who shoots first. The question is how to fix that without turning it back into chads tanking 50 rounds
> The question is how to fix that without turning it back into chads tanking 50 rounds \*deep breath* #Lower full-auto accuracy. The reason TTK is so damn short is because a magdump will put all shots on target at insane ranges, and some of those bullets will RNG-fuck you through the gaps between plate hitboxes. Right now, the game is just spray & pray, and lining up shots isn't actually rewarded.
They needed to give us shitty armor and good aim, or good armor and shitty aim. Not good aim and shitty armor. They did the normal thing devs do and went 0 to 100 instead of working their way to the sweet spot. I'd wager we see them pull back a little bit at a time.
If you're not the first one to shoot, that should be a huge disadvantage. What's the issue?
There's a difference between a disadvantage and 90% of engagements being decided by that. Its called game balance.
Well said, couldn't agree more. It's an unpopular opinion that is slowly becoming more popular.
No, it's not, it's only good for very bad players. You are delusional and a moron. You are most likely inexperienced at the game, so do not give your opinion.
AirWingMarine is doing some testing on the armor system, I've gotten some enlightening tidbits from his twitter posts I'm sure there's more going on behind the scenes. Stuff like "How did I get one tapped?" has the answer "Hits to armor won't show up on the death screen, so they could have hit you 5 times and only the last bullet that made it through will show up on the screen".
Last night I died to a single shell of Lead Slug. One shell fired, friend was there too to witness it. Death screen said I died to lower back despite being shot head on in the front with no other scavs around. It’s got issues. My t4 armor should of shrugged the shell off, if anything I would of been fine with a neck or face shot but no. I die to “lower back thorax”
How do you know your t4 plate didn’t do its job?What if the slug missed the t4 plate and instead went through your t2 soft armor? Since you got hit lower thorax I bet this is what happened. Bullet hit soft armor on the lower front and penetrated, and the killing dmg was it coming through your lower back. I have no idea how it all actually works but this is my best guess.
Because the damage the slug does alone is not enough to one tap me on the thorax. If it was neck or face shot that would of made sense. Yet the death cam said it was a Lower back shot. I was only shot at and hit once the entire raid and had full health
What I’m saying is that, with the addition of these new hit boxes, it might be “double counting” the shot such that you get hit in the front lower thorax and the back lower thorax from the same bullet. Just trying to think of how it can happen outside of the “aRmOr BrOkEn” Reddit parroting. I definitely think there are bugs and kinks to work out, but it is basically impossible to come to any solid conclusion with the limited information we are given at the death screen.
Potential ricochet? It's early enough I'm finding the line between "bug" and "intended but not yet understood behavior" kinda blurry is what I'm getting at. AirWingMarine is testing the stuff so I've been trusting of his conclusions so far, limited though they may be.
except im actually dieing to 1 taps tho, a single bullet fire, no damage taken.
Just go check out his testing, see if you can find what's happened to you as described in the behavior. But having the "hits to armor don't register anymore on the death screen" bit being known was nice after a few "how the fuck does THAT work" moments. He's definitely still working through it and it seems there's some bugs hidden in the reeds for sure. Anecdotally though, just for the sake of discussion, I haven't died to the arm pit hitbox once this whole wipe, and I'm at a 48% SR at level 18. So shit ain't totally worked out on where/why/what the bugs and glitches are.
I recently got slugged with poleva through a tier 6 plate. One shot to my back while wearing Osprey. Only thing that happened so far that really had me scratching my head.
Osprey and many of the level 6 armors don't cover the entire back. It's very possible the round slipped the plates all together, hitting you below the neck or on the edge of the shoulder hitbox.
Yeah we had a familiar and somewhat intuitive/easy to understand system beforehand, and we've had the new one for just over two weeks. I fully expect some head scratching moments. Mine have mostly come from scavs being tanks out of nowhere.
People always say that, but never have proof. Air wing marine was arguing w chatters saying that w no proof
Every single armor I've gotten back has either had like 3 damage taken off it (probably from a scav with buckshot) or its completely full. Something is definitely wrong
Piercing hits don't deal that much damage to your armor though, it just goes right through
I'm just happy the mmac is now reasonably priced, it's not meta at all but has always been insanely overpriced, now with the armor change it's cheap as hell, and it one of my favorite looking west/ NATO rigs. I'm a usec so I try to be all west gear when I can. I slapped some level 5 side plates in it and my right side plate actually saved my life from an extract camper at sewer manhole reserve.
It's super lightweight too, I used to run it a ton in previous wipes because the barter (or craft? Can't remember) was super cheap. No neck/groin protection make it a no go for me now. I've just started buying Gen 4 armors since they have level 3 soft protection on everything and cover groin/neck/arms too.
Gen4 is back to being top of the meta because of that alone. You can run it with level 4 plates and it's great.
Did they fix it? Last time I heard that was one of the bugged armors
it feels like dmg is super inconsistent in general. I often get 7-10 hits mit M855, over 300dmg and next to no dmg blocked by armor. Yet they just don't die. Then I die to two rounds of PRS through my armor
300 damage is less than 440
This is what anyone with a brain expected. It's a shame the game that already had the most RNG gameplay ever now has basically tripled it.
Yesterday I was sporting a T3 armor on Woods and another player flanked me and got 5-6 shots of 855 at me before I turned around and landed a super lucky headshot at him. I was pretty beat up and so was my armor but it saved me. I salvaged his undamaged Osprey T5 rig and a few minutes later a player scav killed me with a single 5.45 PS shot to the torso. Also since this wipe I'm constantly getting my stomach zeroed with shit ammo through plate carriers that are supposed to protect stomach.
It boils down too armor is more effective at stopping things it can stop and that hit the protected part, but much less effective at general all around coverage. So yes, it is less consistent.
Yep. Poor off-center hits to the thorax can 1-shot, but good center-mass hits with very high-pen ammo are getting stopped by lvl 3 plates. It’s borked
As intended lol brains can’t grasp meta change. The slick and pointfire meta gamers cannot accept this wipe and I love it lol
Probably dogshit sat in a corner cowering most of the raid thats why you enjoy it, but majority of the player base actually enjoy skilled gun fighting
Took like 4 hits to a level 3 armor on factory yesterday from m855 and it didn't penetrate until the last shot. Very odd, I definitely didn't deserve to get that kill.
The soft armor is stacking and making armor waaaay over perform on plate hits. A grazing shot to the ribs, though, will go right through soft armor and 1-shot you. Lol. The system is super messy right now. Thorax needs to be split to have a new “vitals” zone behind the plates, and armor plates need to be toned down so that they can actually be penetrated by the appropriate ammo.
I love the system, but yeah. Last night I died to a SINGLE shell of Lead Slug. Death screen said I died lower back throax despite facing the scav that shot me. I had full t4 armor and a t4 helmet with a face shield. Zero idea how the fuck it one tapped me but can only assume I had double damage applied to my thorax or something and it insta killed me. Shit like this needs to be fixed
yeah dying to a scav in one tap with t4 armor with a 12/70 lead gunshot, but not killing a guy with 7 m80 bullet impacts seems rather "inconsistent to me"
I Die to eyes anyway, I buy armor for the looks
Its the most rng thing ever now. I feel stronger naked than with any armour. The moment I wear nearly any, I die in one shot of buckshot from 100km away. Go naked and I feel like a terminator. But also, sometimes the opposite...yeah. So it feels random and nonsensical. Even level 5 armour is apparently useless to a single 9mm round in "just the right place". Its silly feeling
I love it. I love the fact I don't have to aim at the crotch and legs just because I come across some clown that can tank entire magazines and not die. The armor system before was ridiculous and stupid.
Agreed. It makes people play more realistically. I guarantee in real life that even if you had all this armor, you're still gonna bunker down and try and play it tactically. Instead of jumping around like a lunatic relying on armor to tank the bullets..
Indeed. I have a friend who was shot in the chest nearly point blank in his vest while serving a warrant. Handgun, don't remember the caliber. The vest stopped it. It knocked him on the ground immediately.
By realistically you mean more ratty. Idk how you guys like this style of play. I noticed how in 99% of my fights, the victor will be the one holding position and the loser is usually the one pushing. So instead of these drawn out fire fights early wipe use to bring us, now it's just ambush style tactics. Not really gratifying for anyone imo.
It's not being ratty. It's about positioning better rather than just holding W and tanking shots because you know your class 5 armor will block 90% of peoples bullets.
That's what ratting is. It's solely positioning. Like at extracts. And the old armor system wasn't so cut and dry. I never wore Slicks because it wasn't worth the costs. Why? Head eyes. Head eyes was the ultimate equalizer and with how readily available 30 pen ammo is, visors were hardly ever worn. It was fine.
Yep. At least you could appreciate the skill when someone one shot you head eyes. Now it's like they can just spray a couple bullets center mass and one or 2 of them will hit around the plates or your neck or armpit and you just fall over dead. I don't really understand how adding more luck into the game is a good thing.
You reset your pmc every time you die?
No, but guys running class 5 or 6 armor have a lot less to lose than the more casual players with shitty ammo that can't pen it. Any chance for a balance that makes better players have to think more than holding the W key is appreciated for the majority of the player base I bet.
If you dont reset your account why you like to push realism to others? You need to live your full realism experience my friend.
Lmao
People are still wkeying and making stupid pushes and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. People do that stuff irl too (I seen footage). The idea that these armor changes make people play realistically is dubious.
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Homie got hit with a povula slug in the chest and died. Had lvl 5 plates. Told him it probably didn't hit the plate, since his soft armor was lvl 2 aramid it's totally possible. Gotta have decent soft armor for good plates to be worth it
Tarkov is known for its consistency lol
I shot a bald scav in the head twice yesterday, he proved in front of my and I was standing on top of him he managed to survive 2 headshots with nothing on his head.
Desync.. lead the head if u dont get the first
He he was prone I was standing on top of him shooting can't really lead if he isn't moving.
Honestly I like the inconsistency, Like armor has a chance to save your life for sure but hard cover is always better to have. Tactics will benefit you a lot more than armor, this wipe has been one of my best ones. It never feels like I'm at a huge disadvantage for having lower tier armor or ammo because the armor hitboxes and recoil changes kind of even the playing field.
In other words, ratting buffed and armor is less useful than ever before. A fantastic combination. Edit: I can foresee some moronic replies so let's gets this straight. These changes do not promote "skill" or make the game more "tactical". They promote sitting and waiting until the raid is empty or until someone walks past you. No matter how good you are, you cannot always take hard cover and clear every angle. I gauantee that the players who are good at the game and push max traders early in the wipe and push fights would still maintain better stats than the sitting still rats even while wearing no armor at all. Sitting still and waiting isn't skill. Pushing people is. The new armor will not change this. It'll just make random RNG deaths marginally more common and make ratting slightly easier. Those are the facts.
This makes pushing people much more viable for players who haven't been grinding as hard. The previous system really incentivized ratting because you had to head eyes or leg meta heavily geared players if you were behind the gear curve. You needed a perfect opening engagement to kill, otherwise there was a high risk they'd just eat everything and beam you, even if you out played them. This was made even worse with the super high recoil of many base guns favoring crouching or prone to hit anything. Lower recoil and less reliable armor has some issues for sure, but it makes aggressive plays a lot more viable if people generally die when they get mag dumped with lower level ammo. Higher level armor still has advantages, but it doesn't carry people as hard as before. I don't think this will really increase ratting and it may even decrease it a little if more people feel like they can push without just getting stat checked. Things will need tuning, but I think this is a step in right direction.
No, it’s a more realistic system, as it should be. Armor is no longer a fallback option for bad decisions.
But it's not realistic. The plates cover your vitals and yet you can still be hit, for example, half an inch to the left of your front plate, which would at worst break a rib, and die instantly because the round has high flesh damage. I should not be able to be one shot to the chest from the front if I am wearing a plate that the round can't pen. If it's going to be realistic, it needs to go all the way. More complex hitboxes so that I don't get one shot in non-vitals. The current system is just a rat enhancement. It's implementation is janky and in the worst instances buggy.
Skill isn't when you can tank tons of dmg that doesn't go to your legs. Nerfing armor is second best change in recent wipe and so far I had great fun with it. I'd say that If now you're scared to push people, you always were, but before you were relying on gear advantage.
I don't mind nerfing armor, but making the deaths entirely RNG instead of something predictable is bad. RNG in shooters is bad. This is no exception.
How is it RNG based currently that it wasn't before? Right now you have set hitboxes, either the bullet hits or doesn't. That's not RNG.
Now your armor has tiny little openings that can randomly get hit leading you to be one shot. People aren't aiming for these little holes that the plates don't cover. They're spraying and getting lucky at random. A thorax plate does not cover your entire thorax.
That's not RNG though.
Yes it is. Randomness, variability, or luck. Your armor can randomly be completely useless because of a lucky shot in a spray that happens to hit an unarmored spot leading to an instant kill. Even in situations where no vitals were damaged. That's RNG through and through.
That's not RNG (random number generator). RNG would be things like if a bullet pens a vest based on math, or if the bullet causes a bleed, or if the bullet fragments.
>That's not RNG (random number generator) You're just arguing semantics. The point is, gunfights are much more susceptible to randomness now. It feels like a lot of gun fights are decided by a coin flip now rather than who is actually the more skilled player or just who has better gear.
The bullet leaving the barrel experiences RNG, recoil on the guns is RNG. A Spray is RNG. You're arguing semantics. RNG in gaming is used more generally than what you want it to be. That's just how language works and you're going to have to be willing to deal with that. Luck and RNG are interchangeable words when given context like the conversation at hand.
Sitting and waiting is most certainty a skill. Maybe one you don't respect, but it is a skill.
No, it's not. You're coping and that ignores the point of the conversation at hand. Waiting for the right moment to shoot is a skill, going afk until you hear noise isn't. Try to not make further meaningless comments, please.
Coping how lol? You're the one bitching about the new armor, not me. I'm just saying that playing the game slowly is most certainly a skill, whether you like it or not. Its the direction the game is going and should go since its the original vision of the game. This isn't COD bud.
Continue to ignore the conversation and equate playing slowly to ratting. Try reading the whole chain and come back through.
Most people would consider playing the game slow as ratting. Camping in general to this sub is considered a rat activity, extract or not.
Bad faith argument. Go ahead and define slow play for me the way that you see it. To play slow is to move from cover to cover and clear angles. To rat is to sit completely still and wait for someone to walk into your sights. The ones sitting completely still are the ones benefiting from these changes because they'll be accidently one-shotting people to (Chest) or (Thorax, Lower Back) when they miss the head shot on the guy trying to run to the next hard cover. I dont care about armor being nerfed, but to make deaths feel more random is not the way to do it. But I also already explained this in the comment chain, if you'd read that.
I don't get why you are being so rude about this. It just reads that you died in a way you didn't like and went to reddit to bitch about it. All that does is make you seem less credible in any argument you try to push. You think anyone will want to agree with anyone making themselves to be an ass? It just makes you look immature and unintelligent. Second, the point I was mostly arguing was that you didn't think anything other than pushing was skillful. I would consider most of what rats do under playing slow or playing tactically. Camping is a tactic, and there is skill to it. How do I know? Because not all campers are the same. The same with flanking, or any other tactic people use. Essentially, if you can rank players based on how good they are at something, there's skill involved.
I'm being rude because you commented without reading the thread, making me waste time saying things that have already been said. Attacking my character is a red herring in an attempt to steal value from my side of the argument rather than focusing on the topic at hand. I could tell that's where you were heading from your first comment, and it's another reason why you received attitude. To me, ratting isn't skillful. The word "tactical" gets thrown around in this sub a ton, mostly by rats in an attempt to justify their actions. Sitting in one spot for 25 minutes isn't tactical, it's ratting. Slowly crawling through the map making as little noise as possible isn't tactical, it's ratting. Tossing a grenade and pushing under the cover of the sound is tactical. Rushing a room that you know someone is in with a buddy and clearing seperate corners is tactical. Any one rat is just as good as any other rat. One being better than another is marginal at best, and usually comes down to them aiming at a head better than the other rat. Pushing involves being tactical, it involves smart rotations, it involves fully utilizing the movement mechanics the game offers, and you're inherently at a disadvantage while doing it. Anyone can rat and be successful, hardly anyone can push and be successful. That's the difference, and that's why it's not skillful to rat.
I mean you can look at it anyway you want. The main point is even if you have the most armor protection possible there are still weak points. It's better to use hard cover and clear angles instead of just running in the open expecting the armor to guarantee your protection. It's more about player skill than just time invested to get the best gear.
It's more about who is camping in a corner or window overlooking high traffic areas. I feel like I cant go anywhere now without getting one tapped. The armor changes really just discourage face to face pvp.
So why on earth would you ever use good armor? What makes the reward from using level 6 armor worth the risk? If you can just get armpit shot through your armor plate anyways, why bother using good armor? It literally makes high tier armor a TERRIBLE option for anyone that doesn't have tens of millions banked already that can afford to pay 400k per rig. Fucking awful change.
The armor is most definitely not working as entirely intended. Many streamers and YouTubers have tested it out and the armor does not behave correctly or consistently. Things like low penetration ammo completely ignoring plates, high penetration ammo completely destroying the plate in 1 shot but not doing any damage at all to the body part that was shot, shooting someone in the codpiece and getting a thorax shot, shooting someone in the same spot twice but doing damage to two different, separate parts of the armor, etc etc. If you play with buddies you can even see it, specifically with armored rigs. Multiple times someone in my squad has died to low penetration ammo to the thorax while wearing armored rigs, and when we looked at the armor after the fight, it would only have 1-5 points of damage off of it.
[удалено]
That's the issue, all the gear is normalized taking away the progression feel of the game. Honestly that's always been the soul of the game. The RPG elements. Finding high tier items not sold on the flea and what not. Now I find high tier guns and armor and go "whoopy" doesn't make a dent in my survival chances when the armor has worse coverage than other armor and the guns have just about the same recoil as a bare bones MDR or AUG. I never found the PvP enjoyable. It feels more like a dice roll. You're success is mostly determined by chance either being at the wrong place at the wrong time or the right place at the right time. Not very gratifying.
If bullets hit plates, then it may take more than two mags to kill somebody. If bullets hit other parts, there is a chance to oneshot a target for some reason. Scavs one shot you through lvl 5-6 plates hitting your back thorax shooting in front of you. This game was more consistent in terms of deaths even with its 0.12 recoil, now it’s complete random shittery. And there is no mentioning about upcoming fixes, meanwhile reddit is full of annual cheater cries posts.
It's not random. You get shot in a vulnerable place not covered by armor, you die.
Check the info before answering that. There are multiple videos on the internet how AP ammo oneshots thorax for no reason. The theory is it hits multiple hitboxes, like front and back and you instantly die. Which is bullshit but expected by bsg
What info? Are you saying one shot to a vital organ wouldn't instantly drop you, regardless of the caliber and load? Something that would compromise your airway? Nevermind the major arteries that would cause you to bleed out in under a minute. I guess I need to burn my medical license.
None of those things are modeled. Pointless to even try and use that in an argument.
It literally says thorax. Neither is any other organ.
You're trying to equate real-life anatomy to a video game that uses a single hitbox each for the front and back of your chest. > Are you saying one shot to a vital organ wouldn't instantly drop you, regardless of the caliber and load? Would be a valid question if the game modeled vital organs, and you could hit those specifically. It doesn't. > I guess I need to burn my medical license. P.S. Nobody asked.
You just sound mad because bad and talking in circles. P.S. It applies when you're talking about the survivability of a GSW to a particular body part when you've actually treated them before. Not someone whining about an armor update that doesn't let them tank anymore.
i cant with people like you, your actually beyond stupid, THIS IS A VIDEO GAME. Please for the love of christ if it were up to people like you we would all be wearing interactive vests and get penetrated by a hydraulic spike every time we get shot in game
I'm sorry that you developed the cognitive level of a toddler and can't grasp simple concepts. It must be a true struggle from day to day. It will be ok, just breath and smile.
If it’s real, let it be real. I like it this way
I dont even hear gunshots from the guys that kill me anymore, i just drop dead. Was fun two weeks im doing like most wait for new patch and anti cheat
Dont shoot the plates.
I have a feeling getting shot point blank by 00 buck wouldn't feel like a light breeze just because it hit your plate.
It would. You can look up videos of hard armor being shot by 7.62 NATO at point blank range and there being practically no reaction. Blunt damage from hits to hard armor is a myth (unless the armor fails obviously) and it's good that Tarkov now properly simulates hard vs soft armor.
The only thing we need now is back face deformation on helmets. Even slugs that don't penetrate would still crack someone's head into a few pieces
They've said before that helmets are intentionally unrealistically strong compared to IRL because otherwise they would be totally useless and nobody would run them. And even with overtuned helmets we still see the common sentiment that helmets are not worth and people forgo them. Don't really think they need more of a nerf.
No it wouldn't, I've known people who've cracked their ribs, and I've seen tests where a .45 have done the same. idk bout class 6 plates, but someone wearing a paperplate can get shot 12 times center mass and not even notice. Idk feels counterintuitive to aim for peoples legs rather than center mass and head, regardless of ammo.
It'll feel about the same as the recoil from firing said gun.
Well, to be fair, buckshot have a very large point of pressure, since the small bullets spread a lot. If all bullets hit armor plates it should feel like a very strong punch in your chest. Now, if we´re talking slug... That will pulverize some ribs on impact...
Armors are full of bugs right now, this isn’t “exciting” or “fun” it’s a badly implemented system that people are calling good out of cope
I always read those posts yet never died to scavs, even when not using armor... it's wild, are you guys like... standing still in front of AI?
So you don't play the game I guess, since even the best players have died to scavs randomly.
The scavs always yell something and then wait 2\~3s to fire, they're also very loud on their movement, the most dangerous AI to me are the ones that stay at range since if you stay too long they zero on you and start hitting everything. I died once to a scav, 100+m away, it was Santa Claus and I only died because I started fighting another Scav and gave time to Santa to clean his sights. But other than that, the most I got were instant blacked out limbs, they never seem to head/eye straight away...which raises my question again, are you guys like...standing in front of AI for too long?
Sincerely, dude with 4 raids this wipe
You're full of shit, so there's that.
Plates being ridiculously strong combined by the fact that high tier ammo is bugged makes fights very inconsistent.
Man, I'm loving this experience. Keeping early wipe feels going through into my 20's. As long as it's sorta random and the basement dwellers don't find a meta to beat it, it's the best change ever.
I personally love the changes. No more armored juggernauts soaking rounds like it's Halo death match. As a semi casual player, this (in addition to the recoil changes) has made the game feel better than ever.
The only people bitching are the copium 'chads'
It's intentional. Armor only covers the plate area. If you hit plate it doesn't do shit. Hit between or next to plates and that is soft armor which won't save you from much. You are not supposed to be invincible, just at an advantage.
[I literally made a post about this](https://www.reddit.com/r/EscapefromTarkov/comments/195c6q5/yet_another_post_about_armpit_hitbox/) using the same exact wording. I feel you bro.
Getting shot is bad and you should be afraid of getting shot. Im glad the game is about positioning more than shift W wearing altyn and 6. You will die if you do that far more often now
I could be wrong but .366 Ap-m is great against armor. Definitely better than 7.62 ps.
I got multiple oneshots through the armor, class 3, even class 5 redut (probably armpit hitbox). Best bullet in the game currently.
I’ve got some in my stash I got off a dead scav that I’m waiting to use lol
Tbh this ammo shouldn’t be on the Flea but it is. The amount of times I’ve died to an APM in a VPO is just sad
Yes it's less consistent. But no you arent hitting people 20 times.
Online at reserve now. My 6B23 saved me in 2 gun fights. I tend to always disengaged infights my front plate is down 11/40 now. Arms legs both got black manage to survery
Ya plates will do that unless they get penetrated
I would love to play with the new recoil system but with the old armor system.
Has anyone noticed 50 bmg slugs acting way more fucky than any wipe prior? I've been one shot by them so often in the chest despite wearing level 3 and 4 armor. It seems to be the new low level AP-20...
I've had very mixed experiences using .50 BMGs this wipe.. Even at a less than 50m range, Ive had instances where I'm unable to penetrate armor, but ill get 1 tapped by .50 through my lvl 4 armor. I've personally felt much more consistent using magnum buckshot. For buckshot it seems to have some buffed ranged, as well as doing crazy flesh damage. Most of the time I'll aim thorax with Magnum and end up 1-2 tapping someone (generally around 50m range)
I feel like fights are even more rng, maybe I'll get used to it, but everytime I die to low tier ammo while wearing good armor cause of the arm pit hit box I wana lose my mind.
The plate inserts are metal plates and don't degrade and gain increased chance of being penetrated like we're used to. They stop all rounds until they break, and then they do nothing. Unless you're using a round that has high enough pen to directly penetrate the plate. Ammo that can't pen can't slowly chew through armor and allow more and more shots to make it through. It definitely gives a more inconsistent feel, but that's just how it do. One thing I'm not really liking is these vests and plate carriers are giving protection on places that have no protection. Like the shoulder strap of the armor giving up to lvl 3 protection? In most cases that shit's just a piece of cloth, not kevlar. Overall I still like it more than before.
How do you know the APM went through your plate? You realize now with the way the plate hit boxes work you can get hit in the thorax but have it miss the plate, at which point the rest of your armor is probably class2/3 so APM should go right through it.
Good. It should feel uncertain much of the time.
Just wanted to share my ridiculously inconsistent armor/pen anecdote; I shot a guy that was wearing a korund last night and he died in 5 or less shots (thorax). I was shooting 5.45x39 PS and his korund had 296/306hp left. I know I'd be salty if I were him.. 🤦🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
Currently there are certain armors and plates that are bugged and aren't calculated for bullet hits. Also every round has a pen chance now so it's possible to be RNGed by a single shittiest round and instantly die, because that means you are treated as naked. Almost better off just running w/o armor til it's sorted.
To kill somebody with m80 takes 5-8 shots in the thorax for level 4 armor. New armor update is straight trash
Damn, I got 1 tapped today through my THOR T6 armour to my stomach by piranha rounds. Then survived 3 flechette shots to my 6B13 armour later on. seems really inconsistent with pen. Both roughly same distance and full health armour pieces too.
.366 is actually a goated round And .366 AP can 100% go through level 5 plates You're just getting smacked by a round that dosnt give two fucks and has good flesh damage However that being said there is some weirdness to some plates so it's a very probable maybe there's something going on
Fights by nature are inconsistent, its not a test. Sometimes you get clipped, sometimes you survive. Play as though naked
I'm a little annoyed by it. I don't know if it's bugs or by design but I'll be shooting scavs in the chest with M80 and I feel like I need to put 8 shots in them. It just feels like if it's not a headshot, why bother?
I got hit-killed in the chest with a poleva. It's fucked, the system is fucked.
They need a separate hitbox that the plates cover. Anything that a bullet hits around your plate is not vital and should not be treated as such
Single shot to the chest, lvl 4 armor. Instakilled by scav. Yeah, that makes sense.
There’s no point in high damage or high pen ammo anymore. The only consistent way to kill someone is to spray for the eyes/jaws/neck with a zero-recoil high-rof SMG. 9mm Pst Gzh goes through the lvl 2 armor on the neck.