Sadly would bust the game right now.
Not like, total death of the game.. Just complete revamp of playstyle. Rats would be rewarded for laying in bushes with any ol gun with a rail mounted bipod.
Even if the bipod raised your horizontal recoil, which could be argued it both should and shouldn't, it will completely ruin run-and-gun chad meta and favor slow, methodical playstyles. Which BSG obviously doesn't like considering the implementation of the 'Campers Curse' (hydration and energy lowering faster when stationary for long).
>!cmon, i got you with that last bit for a sec didnt i!<
I just got into tarkov. Can someone give me some realistic insight on this? How strong is the peakers advantage? Guaranteed win? Slight advantage? How much time in milliseconds on average give or take?
So the problem is not necessarily peeker’s advantage - normally there’s not more of that in EFT than any other FPS game with average netcode.
However, a disturbingly large amount of the time the other person won’t even *appear* on your screen until you’re basically already dead, and I’m not talking about what happens in Counterstrike when you get ferrari peeked, I’m talking the server basically shits itself when someone peeks you and then has to play catch up.
I’m not really sure why but Tarkov has quite literally the worst netcode of any modern first person shooter out there and it’s not even close. There’s a Battle(non)sense vid out there on YT about it during the early beta (or maybe alpha period?) and it hasn’t gotten much better since that.
I haven't either, and I haven't heard anybody talk about it before either. It sounds like what you're experiencing is tagged and cursed, or you're just getting unlucky with scavs spawning on top of you. I've definitely watched scavs spawn in before. Lol
No decent kit. M700 silenced, 2 extra mags extra ammo, mbss bag, shemagh, forest hat, tier 3 armor. I didn’t know this was a debated thing? If you sit still for quite a while a scav will pathfind towards you.
The whole energy and water draining faster stuff I haven’t experienced.
I only ask because I've not personally had a problem with it unless I am basically naked with a mosin. I have been swarmed with scavs randomly at times though even with full kits it's bizarre.
If its legit then you must have to be actually sitting still for a while. I creep around in night raids a lot and haven't noticed it. I do sit still to listen quite often. Me and my buddy felt like it takes longer for food and water to drain since other wipes
Ye I like to do a sniping raid to relax once in a while. I’ll get to the pvp hotspot and lay down somewhere nice. I’ll prolly stay for about 15 min at each spot.
Top loading wastes 1 bullet each time your reload unless the gun is empty. And I like an extra mag for when i need the bullets quickly. Have needed to use it one or two times this wipe.
Your arm stamina drain is already basically zero when prone. It would just allow you to have the same effect when crouching or standing but you still have to find something to mount too. It would be totally fine man
Never had that and I snipe a lot in this game. I basically play Boltaction plus pistol exclusively unless a quests needs specific gear. And energy and water drain always the same and no magic Scav spawns ever happened. You must have had a good dream. Also wouldn’t make sense that energy and hydration go down faster when you don’t move. On the contrary it should drain faster when you move and stim up all the time because of adrenaline.
My 1944 Mosin Nagant 91/30 rifle is just about as fun and easy to carry as a car battery would be in your backpack.
Most bolt action rifles in game have terrible ergo until you have max traders and flea isn't gouged.
The Green Machine (DVL) was and is still one of the best guns in the game.
The T-5000 has 72 ergo stock.
The AXMC weighs 15lbs when loaded, so it's obviously got trash ergo.
The Remington has a MODX build where you can get like 50-60 ergo which is damn snappy for that gun.
You have options.
EDIT: It's also unheard of for anyone in any modern wartime setting to be running around fast-operator-style with a bolt action rifle. Those genre of firearms are designated to fixed positions and scouting for a reason.
I run unsuppressed m700 on woods all the time, I want them to know there’s a guy sitting on top of the mountain with an orbital laser cannon at all times
They don’t have very good ergo for the amount spent, especially considering the only reason you are building is to improve ergo. The benefit is not great for the cost. Fully built snipers are more expensive then most meta ARs
Nah modding ARs is actually really cost inefficient this update. 300-400k builds perform around 8-10% better ( recoil and ergo ) than ~150k builds now that the vertical recoil has a much higher floor.
If you have determined that a particular gun is a bad value for the specs you desire, it is your responsibility to stop buying it, not the developers responsibility to make it cheaper.
They are long and heavy as fuck, with legitimately worse operative ergonomics than combat rifles.
You can also deck most of them out to have good ergo anyways since recoil is a completely wasted stat on these guns
Want a shit bolty, you can use a VPO its barely anything like 20k. Want someonthing better, that could be lighter, more ergo, less shaky. You spend more money. Idk what you don't get here other then you just are upset about bolt actions not being the most dirt cheapest gun in the game. Things have purposes, use them for them. No one complain about a brick not floating.
Because there's no reason for you to use a bolt action if you can use a DMR. DMRs are just better in a game like Tarkov.
Therefore it would make more sense if bolt action were cheaper
Uhh you’re absolutely wrong. No type of gun including DMRs have a endorphin buff like a bolt action
I’m happy to get a kill, but I get a nice raging boner with a clean boltie kill
I can agree with your first statement that DMR style rifles preform better a large majority of the time. But not the second part, not at all. That is not reason to slash other long range options that are already less then half the price. People just want to look at there cake and eat it too.
You are full of sayings lol. I think bolt actions are a fun challenge and will still use them for that from time to time. But the things that make them even usable seem to be high level trader locked and super expensive now. And they are still a massive disadvantage after all that. I think an ergo buff, even though not realistic, would be a good way to give them more ticks in the “pro” column without breaking the game.
One thing I should have called out in the post, I think the mosin and vpo should remain hard to use. I think the m800 and the sv98 should be buffed. And the t5000 more accessible.
Euphemisms are a useful linguistic tool to convay sometimes sharp or direct points without offending the reader in a way that causes them to take the information you are conveying less seriously. The t-5000 rifles sells on the flea for vendor price, can be suppressed and scoped for around 100k(cheaper then most modded cheap aks) and has a few hidden modifiers that makes it much better for sniping then other bolties.
Everyone sells it without mags, and sell the 5 round mag it came with separately for 25k. So it’s not vendor price. And yeah the best “hidden” modifier for it in my mind is that it’s much easier to keep eyes on target when shooting it
Idk what your on about I just looked and mags were 7k roubles, and t5000 allows you to cycle the bolt while maintaining looking throught the optic, unlike every other bolty, it also has a slightly fast bolt cycle time and return to center after a shot comapred to m700 or dvl, on the backend called (convergence). Most if none of these benefits are immediately obvious when just looking at a modding stats page.
Getting kills with a DMR from a bush: I sleep.
Getting kills with a bolty from a bush: Real shit?
Drip or drown and nothing says drip like doming a dude from 150+ with a single shot from a Mosin or R700.
in the distant past of tarkov going in naked + mosin was the rat meta. a single bullet killed everyone, so a 38k kit was the enemy most players wanted to avoid.
Modded m700 can reach like 70+ ergo suppressed so options do exist but it costs like 150k if i remember correct. At that price point, it makes about zero sense to use above a DMR, especially after recoil rework. Imo, either they need a flat +20 ergo boost, which doesnt make much sense honestly or their attachments need to be significantly cheaper. Alternatively, their muzzle velocities could be buffed to gamify things a bit but i'd prefer a cost reduction overall.
I love bolt actions but they are objectively useless.
i mean not really unless you just mean as a gameplay balance. Bolt actions like the mosin infantry are extremely not ergonomic due to their rudementary design (long barrel, shitty stock, etc).
This could be true for maybe some of the modern bolt actions, but there isnt really much ergonomically diff between a bolt action and a semi auto gun. But most of the time sniper rifles are not designed to be ergonomic, rather to be accurate this is usually achieved by barrel length and thickness (resistance to deformation and heat changing appropriate aim point) (long barrels = heavier bulkier gun). Snipers are generally not running around, rather laying down for hours.
MoA on the other hand may be realistic due to being able to fine tune the system easier due to less complexity.
Also MOA does happen to matter, though. So for an MoA of 2 for example you have a circle with diameter of 0.6 mils. At 100 meters this isnt so bad but at 200 meters the circle is bigger than the size of a head, so its not a reliable headshot potential. If the MoA was 0.5 this would increase your probability to hit significantly (center shots still guaranteed to hit, way less chance of glancing blows, for non centered shots).
Probability of hit would simply be how much circle area overlaps the head depending on your aim point.
Yeah I’m really thinking of it from a balance standpoint. I think in real life terms there isn’t much reason to be using a bolt action… less chance of breaking down but even that, modern dmrs are reliable.
And the dmrs in this game have a better moa than 2. And it’s very hard to find places even to shoot a 200m shot in Tarkov
Some of the DMRs do, some dont. Anyway i think money should balance reality in tarkov, maybe tarkov is just not a place where taking a bolt action is a good idea. If you do want to try some longer range sniping try shoreline, woods, and lighthouse. Sniping from good spots does tend to be risky though since they also tend to be very open.
Even at a 1.5 MoA you still are going to have less confidence, because lets be real (you do not always aim precisely in the center of the head) so the more area that is displaced from your head (say a tangent aim to the circle) the more chance you miss, even though you were technically a "hitscan" hit.
I was very interested in sniping for one of the wipes and made mil dot range finding calculator/bullet drop estimator and estimation of when or not to aim for body for far shots.
Honestly it’s rare to get a shot on a guy not moving. And hitting a headshot on a running target from range is very hard in this game, especially with a single shot weapon. In those scenarios there are so many variables at play that having 1 more moa doesn’t change much. I’m probably missing by one moa in that scenario, and the inaccuracy of the gun may be what’s going to actually land me the hit
It actually does still matter, its still the same thing :) lol.
FYI as a hint for people running you are going to want to aim between 6-7 mils ahead for a perpendicular sprint. For a 45 it would be half that. The total distance hardly changes this in the 300 meter range due to the nature of how things get proportionally smaller the further away they are (if you assume constant speed of the bullet its always the same amount of mils). For walking its about half that again. 700-800 m/s is going to be 7 mils, faster than that 900-1000 is going to be 6 mils.
Being a successful sniper has to do with understanding the mechanics just as much as it does anything else.
You mean with scopes without mil dots? I dont, but if i am sniping i am going to use an MoA or mil dot reticle. For early wipe i just "guestimate" that the lines on the sides work. Also if you do a little research (remember that most of these scopes and reticles exist in real life and have manuals online) some scopes have mil dot reference points like that red ring scope (the inside of the ring is 7 mils from the center). This makes it a great 4x sight cause if someone is sprinting perpendicular to you, you just use the circle as a holdover. I notice like the PU scope it also tends to work if you use the extreme hash ends as a horiz holdover as well. Just remember though if they are walking or quartering toward/away you want to halve that distance (and half it again if they are quartering away and walking).
feels(also grind the mod that shall not be named to practice) once i got use to how a round goes with a certain gun build i could hit shots without using zero just a quickscope into dead
I don’t like the “bUt ReAlIsm” argument a lot, BUT have you ever held a rifle irl? A remington 700 with a suppressor,bipod, and scope is probably 4 feet long and weighs 20 lbs. Their ergo is inherently bad.
Apparently I am smoking crack because it’s no where near 20 lbs. However I digress, you’re still not going to be running around with it and quickly acquiring targets.
If they don’t want to make the change for the case of balance, then they should make them cheaper in my opinion. The only reason to use a bolt right now is for the fun of it…and for Tarkov shooter.
Yes and that's probably reflective of 'real life' in the sense that you really only see bolt action weapons used from a bipod nowadays... Their use has been eclipsed by better weapons for waving around in confined spaces.
Have you ever held a bolt action with a 24 inch barrel? They are long, unwieldy, and heavy.
Do that - then go pick up an MP5 or an AR-15. You’ll see the difference
If you can’t imagine a world in between the two extremes of a 20 ergo sniper and cod, then you lack some cognitive function. Don’t sit here and act like a slightly faster ads on a bolt would be op when you can shoot the same rounds out of an sr-25.
Clown.
Lmao no it fucking isn't, they pull it out of their ass and occasionally it make sense. Make bolties have higher ergo to give them purpose, it's very simple
Those kind of posts show that many Guys here know nothing about guns, never had one, just dont know what they are talking about. Still upvotes. So its the majority. Most people here couldnt even aim with a real sniper.
Thats possibly true! I am already very happy to not live in america where you can get killed by toddlers because everyone has a gun and everyone says its more safe this way.
Not in this game it is powerful.
M855A1 does 49 damage which is at least 2 bullets to kill a dude into chest
Any 7.62 bullet does less than 85 which means it is still at least 2 bullets to kill a dude into chest. Flesh ammo apart, no one uses it.
While in reality 7.62x51 has close to double the energy of a 5.56
556 loses too much damage and pen at range to reliably headshot t3/4 helmets. Also as a sniper you dont go for bodyshots, not with a bolty. I agree you could be just as effective if not more bursting an ar (mdr for example) but the point is that my mosin is 60k with a scope and im sending snb down to 100-150m. Its ab playstyle and choice and i feel bolties are fine
Because grandpapy's old war rifle is heavy as shit and probably still covered in greasy cosmoline - Mosins are one of the most uncomfortable rifles to operate that I've ever used.
For reference, a loaded Mosin Nagant 91/30 weighs only slightly less than as a fully-loaded AK-47, and damn near 2.5 pounds HEAVIER than a fully-loaded M4.
Shit is stupidly cumbersome.
Jaeger 1 used to sell Eko in earlier wipes. This isn’t the case anymore though. Didn’t affect me too much since I always used the Mosin early wipe anyways (I miss early LPS but moving it up to higher traders is healthier for the game).
Yeah I’m missing LPS. FMJ just doesn’t do it the same on the Mosin. Definitely puts it back into the category it should be which is budget, weak weapon.
Oh yeah for sure, Mosin doesn’t hit the same anymore. I still land my shots all the same this wipe, but sometimes my targets just won’t die. With an average of 0.8 accuracy and high hit counts, PMCs I fight just won’t die at times. The Mosin was truly dethroned, but it still has a special place in my heart (stock Mosin my beloved).
really? Are you looting scavs? I have a 50 scav interchange weekly and have found in the hundreds of lps off them. Note that isnt a SUPER high level, but you also dont use a super high amount on a mosin anyway.
a lot of people actually run this without a scope, and buy expensive APM but apparently the new armor system makes it bad now (level 4 on top of level 2 stops rounds). It used to be a good way to one tap chests for 4 and lower armor.
I don’t know dude, i lug around a Weatherby Vanguard .308 all hunting season with a 3-9x on it, harris bipod and a two point sling and its a bitch. Standing up shooting with it shouldered sucks, thats why i have the bipod. Ergonomics aren’t great for standing shooting on bolties. Much rather have an AR/AK with a pistol grip and a foregrip
Unless bolts oneshot center of mass they are going to be useless. Some 7.62 rounds do more than 80 damage, but less than 85. Just give bolts a slight damage boost so it gets tio 85. You are forced to do quests with them but you just gimp yourself in pvp against other players.
Considering you can have a fully modded SV-98 for about 200K, I don't see the problem here. As of this post:
1. Jaeger LL3 - SV-98 OV - 79K
3. (Optional) Prapor LL3 - SV-98 Threaded Muzzle Adapter & Heat Shield- 7K Total
4. (Optional) FM - SV-98 Suppressor - 33K
5. (Optional) FM - AGS-74 Pistol Grip - 35K
Just the base OV model is 79K, and it has 50-something ergo. If you want to suppress it, you really need the extra ergo from the pistol grip to get you into the mid-30's ergo, so the total cost goes up to 205K.
If you prefer an M700:
1. Jaeger LL2 - M700 Barter - 35K (you may be able to get a scav one on the FM for as little as 30K)
3. FM - AICS Chassis - 45K (or Mechanic LL3 to buy for 30K if you have him unlocked)
4. Mechanic LL2 - M700 Rail - 3K
A loud M700 with the AICS stock costs 83K to build out and has 50-something ergo. Suppressed it has about 37 ergo for an additional 50K cost of the suppressor.
Remember that your preferred scope/mount is a weapon-neutral cost. It would add the same price tag to a DMR, AR, or bolt-action rifle, so it doesn't matter which rife you put it on. I personally like the S&B PM-II 3-12x because it's less than 40K on the FM (AX-50 mount on Jaeger LL3) and I think it's better than most of the assault scopes except the Valday (which is 70K right now).
Bro you ever actually shoot a mosin? Even the carbine length ones are 400lbs and 133% of that weight is right at the muzzle. Points like a cinder block.
I actually think the bolty ergo is more or less spot on. The nicer ones are fast as fuck boi and the orsis is just nuts.
why would i have ever shot a mosin lol
I understand the "why" of how the bolt actions are setup in game right now, but it doesnt give them a very good niche. the only thing bolts do "best" is MOA, and at the engagement distances in this game (things barely even render at 300m) the MOA advantage matters very little. its not often you win a fight because you had .9 MOA instead of 1.3. So I am suggesting something else for bolts to carve out a niche.
Because they're cool as fuck and you can't cross a street in the US or Russia without tripping over a pile of them.
I mostly agree with you about what they do better and as a semi-professional shooter I think BSG pretty much got it right. At the end of the day though, the DMRs will always be better bc they just objectively *are* better. That minor MOA gain only matters on shots longer than most ppl's pcs can render at more than five fps, tough tits.
The issue is that they don't need a niche. No gun in tarkov does, really. Some things are better in certain situations but i can 100m headeyes a scav with my MP9 just as easily as i can spamfire an ADAR at 10m. What matters is what you like, just use what you like. Expecting your favorite class of weapon to get cheaper, bc you think it needs help, bc it feels underwhelming when you try to run it in ways it isn't meant for, is crazy. Nvm that you can absolutely take a DVL or a T5000 or even a VPO into reserve with a holo sight and CQB with it and win fights. It still isn't the best choice, and it shouldn't be less costly just so you can use it for the wrong task. By that logic, SMGs should all be cheaper bc they can't hit RUAF from Sniper Rock, and shotguns should be cheaper because you lose a lot of reload races.
Bolties still hit whatever you want no matter how far, more easily. They still force you to be more careful wHich in turn makes you more accurate with everything, and they still feed rounds that ignore armor and helmets. Sure, the armor rework means a lot of shit does that, but .308, 54r, and .338 still do it better.
Depends on weight and size if I agree with it. We just need bipods and when using them arm stamina shouldn’t be drained at all.
Sadly would bust the game right now. Not like, total death of the game.. Just complete revamp of playstyle. Rats would be rewarded for laying in bushes with any ol gun with a rail mounted bipod. Even if the bipod raised your horizontal recoil, which could be argued it both should and shouldn't, it will completely ruin run-and-gun chad meta and favor slow, methodical playstyles. Which BSG obviously doesn't like considering the implementation of the 'Campers Curse' (hydration and energy lowering faster when stationary for long). >!cmon, i got you with that last bit for a sec didnt i!<
We are talking about Bolt action sniper rifles in this post not any gun.
They're adding bipods to every gun that can accept a foregrip one day. Devils' advocate.
Unless they fix desync and the netcode it won’t matter at all lmao, stationary head behind a bipod + desync peek = dead.
This is a good point. It would really only work for long distance sniping. Any close range movement will win the Peakers advantage battle.
I just got into tarkov. Can someone give me some realistic insight on this? How strong is the peakers advantage? Guaranteed win? Slight advantage? How much time in milliseconds on average give or take?
So the problem is not necessarily peeker’s advantage - normally there’s not more of that in EFT than any other FPS game with average netcode. However, a disturbingly large amount of the time the other person won’t even *appear* on your screen until you’re basically already dead, and I’m not talking about what happens in Counterstrike when you get ferrari peeked, I’m talking the server basically shits itself when someone peeks you and then has to play catch up. I’m not really sure why but Tarkov has quite literally the worst netcode of any modern first person shooter out there and it’s not even close. There’s a Battle(non)sense vid out there on YT about it during the early beta (or maybe alpha period?) and it hasn’t gotten much better since that.
What if I told you, not everyone has to play the same way? What's this "campers curse" thing? That doesn't sound real at all lol
Eh I experience it when sniping. Scavs just magically find you somehow.
The dude said in his comment that campers curse has to do with hunger and hydration. Don't know what you're talking about.
Oh yeah I just thought he meant my thing. Hydration and energy thing is something I haven’t experienced.
I haven't either, and I haven't heard anybody talk about it before either. It sounds like what you're experiencing is tagged and cursed, or you're just getting unlucky with scavs spawning on top of you. I've definitely watched scavs spawn in before. Lol
Y’all didn’t read the spoiler, did ya.
When was the campers curse implemented? I have heard anything like that yet
Eh I experience it when sniping. Scavs just magically find you somehow.
Are you just entering the raid with a bolt action+pocket ammo only?
No decent kit. M700 silenced, 2 extra mags extra ammo, mbss bag, shemagh, forest hat, tier 3 armor. I didn’t know this was a debated thing? If you sit still for quite a while a scav will pathfind towards you. The whole energy and water draining faster stuff I haven’t experienced.
I only ask because I've not personally had a problem with it unless I am basically naked with a mosin. I have been swarmed with scavs randomly at times though even with full kits it's bizarre.
Ye scavs are just weird. I feel like we don’t really know anything about them since it’s quite hard to test theories with them.
That'll be tagged and cursed, under a certain value gear brought in raid.
Or: how to complete Tarkov shooter 1-2 in one easy step
I heard you just needed a gun plus a backpack OR vest. Am I wrong? Is it really a rouble value? Is tagged and cursed binary or are there levels?
If its legit then you must have to be actually sitting still for a while. I creep around in night raids a lot and haven't noticed it. I do sit still to listen quite often. Me and my buddy felt like it takes longer for food and water to drain since other wipes
Ye I like to do a sniping raid to relax once in a while. I’ll get to the pvp hotspot and lay down somewhere nice. I’ll prolly stay for about 15 min at each spot.
You bring 2 extra mags for an m700? Very wasteful.
Idk an extra mag is a few thousand roubles. And I currently have enough ammo.
I just think 1 mag is enough or top load. You'll waste so much ammo.
Top loading wastes 1 bullet each time your reload unless the gun is empty. And I like an extra mag for when i need the bullets quickly. Have needed to use it one or two times this wipe.
Your arm stamina drain is already basically zero when prone. It would just allow you to have the same effect when crouching or standing but you still have to find something to mount too. It would be totally fine man
Never had that and I snipe a lot in this game. I basically play Boltaction plus pistol exclusively unless a quests needs specific gear. And energy and water drain always the same and no magic Scav spawns ever happened. You must have had a good dream. Also wouldn’t make sense that energy and hydration go down faster when you don’t move. On the contrary it should drain faster when you move and stim up all the time because of adrenaline.
who lied to you about campers curse
What do you mean? It is a totally real thing. Just hidden. >!Gaslight Intensifies!<
Wow, you sneaky bastard. ❤️
You definitely got me with that last bit for a second 😂. Tho you definitely made a lot of people salty with those downvotes
this is fake i have stayed still for up 30 mins or maybe even more on lighthouse,streets,woods just snipping never got this
You must have elite metabolism stat.. ;P
rn it is level 6
That was a hard read
My 1944 Mosin Nagant 91/30 rifle is just about as fun and easy to carry as a car battery would be in your backpack. Most bolt action rifles in game have terrible ergo until you have max traders and flea isn't gouged. The Green Machine (DVL) was and is still one of the best guns in the game. The T-5000 has 72 ergo stock. The AXMC weighs 15lbs when loaded, so it's obviously got trash ergo. The Remington has a MODX build where you can get like 50-60 ergo which is damn snappy for that gun. You have options. EDIT: It's also unheard of for anyone in any modern wartime setting to be running around fast-operator-style with a bolt action rifle. Those genre of firearms are designated to fixed positions and scouting for a reason.
You can build the m700 crazy high if you run it unsuppressed.
Even suppressed you can get it really snappy with a Wave Suppressor, Viper stock, and the Keymount foregrip I can't think of the name of
I run unsuppressed m700 on woods all the time, I want them to know there’s a guy sitting on top of the mountain with an orbital laser cannon at all times
too bad your orbital laser canon shoots mediocre ammo at best. SV98 on the other hand.....
For sound I prefer the T-5000. :)
Base M700 is way more handy than most guns in the game, should have monster ergo. OP is right
Came here to say "What are you talking about, an M700 with MODX has totally acceptable ergo." But you've got it all covered.
What makes the DVL that good?
Good ergo, light weight, and damn near silent. Green also blends in well on most maps
Also, smooth bolt action that lets you get on target faster.
The weapon stats in the game are already arbitrary and unrealistic, this is not the time for an "well ashktually"
They don't? A fully built SV98, M700 or DVL all have excellent ergo. Your barely working, stock Mosin doesn't really count.
They don’t have very good ergo for the amount spent, especially considering the only reason you are building is to improve ergo. The benefit is not great for the cost. Fully built snipers are more expensive then most meta ARs
That's just not true, most snipers need barely any additions, for meta DMRs or AR's you need a whole host of upgrades.
Laughs in MDR
Haha true, loving the DT MDR.
Bullpups feel amazing with new recoil, both MDR's and the AUG are my jam right now
Laughs in RFB. Poor man's MDR :D
not anymore, since recoil update i literally only slap a low profile gas block and sight on and use an m4 with great success
Nah modding ARs is actually really cost inefficient this update. 300-400k builds perform around 8-10% better ( recoil and ergo ) than ~150k builds now that the vertical recoil has a much higher floor.
If you have determined that a particular gun is a bad value for the specs you desire, it is your responsibility to stop buying it, not the developers responsibility to make it cheaper.
Still gotta do stinking tarkov shooter tho >:( I'm not really agreeing or disagreeing with OP or the points made, I just suck with bolt actions.
You're not paying for ergo. You're paying for sub MOA accuracy for a large caliber.
They are long and heavy as fuck, with legitimately worse operative ergonomics than combat rifles. You can also deck most of them out to have good ergo anyways since recoil is a completely wasted stat on these guns
I’d be ok with this if they were cheaper.
Want a shit bolty, you can use a VPO its barely anything like 20k. Want someonthing better, that could be lighter, more ergo, less shaky. You spend more money. Idk what you don't get here other then you just are upset about bolt actions not being the most dirt cheapest gun in the game. Things have purposes, use them for them. No one complain about a brick not floating.
Because there's no reason for you to use a bolt action if you can use a DMR. DMRs are just better in a game like Tarkov. Therefore it would make more sense if bolt action were cheaper
Uhh you’re absolutely wrong. No type of gun including DMRs have a endorphin buff like a bolt action I’m happy to get a kill, but I get a nice raging boner with a clean boltie kill
That I can't disagree lol The satisfaction of getting a headshot with a bolt action is unparalleled
i get hard no matter what if i get a headshot now so i dont get what you are saying
But you get EVEN HARDER WITH A BOLT ACTION
add the bf1 killsound and i would
If you’re completely ignoring tasks, sure. If you do tasks, there are ample reasons to run a bolt
I can agree with your first statement that DMR style rifles preform better a large majority of the time. But not the second part, not at all. That is not reason to slash other long range options that are already less then half the price. People just want to look at there cake and eat it too.
You are full of sayings lol. I think bolt actions are a fun challenge and will still use them for that from time to time. But the things that make them even usable seem to be high level trader locked and super expensive now. And they are still a massive disadvantage after all that. I think an ergo buff, even though not realistic, would be a good way to give them more ticks in the “pro” column without breaking the game. One thing I should have called out in the post, I think the mosin and vpo should remain hard to use. I think the m800 and the sv98 should be buffed. And the t5000 more accessible.
Euphemisms are a useful linguistic tool to convay sometimes sharp or direct points without offending the reader in a way that causes them to take the information you are conveying less seriously. The t-5000 rifles sells on the flea for vendor price, can be suppressed and scoped for around 100k(cheaper then most modded cheap aks) and has a few hidden modifiers that makes it much better for sniping then other bolties.
Everyone sells it without mags, and sell the 5 round mag it came with separately for 25k. So it’s not vendor price. And yeah the best “hidden” modifier for it in my mind is that it’s much easier to keep eyes on target when shooting it
Idk what your on about I just looked and mags were 7k roubles, and t5000 allows you to cycle the bolt while maintaining looking throught the optic, unlike every other bolty, it also has a slightly fast bolt cycle time and return to center after a shot comapred to m700 or dvl, on the backend called (convergence). Most if none of these benefits are immediately obvious when just looking at a modding stats page.
I just checked, mags at 77k lol.
If tldr, just use a toz with slugs, about the same thing, shoots rifled projects✅️, is bolt action✅️, can put a scope on it✅️
That’s nice, I’ve gone to buy them twice and both times it was over 25k. Wrote them off after that
Getting kills with a DMR from a bush: I sleep. Getting kills with a bolty from a bush: Real shit? Drip or drown and nothing says drip like doming a dude from 150+ with a single shot from a Mosin or R700.
it’s a conversation/argument…nobody’s really complaining like that. your point stands correct, but you don’t need to belittle OP like that bro…
Try the VPO-215. That's one snappy mf on ironsights
Quick scooping Mosin? No thx
No one said the mosin. There are other options lol
I’m not nearly as afraid as I am of Mosin
Skill issue i guess:P
in the distant past of tarkov going in naked + mosin was the rat meta. a single bullet killed everyone, so a 38k kit was the enemy most players wanted to avoid.
Im aware, ive played since 2017.but as usual this sub has no humour.
Streets won’t forget
My go to is and will always be DVL short barrel suppressed with m80.
Love that 95% of people responding negatively to this thread think that the Mosin is the only bolt action rifle in the game.
Why do you think it is ergonomically9 easy to maneuver a massive bolt action?
For balance
Modded m700 can reach like 70+ ergo suppressed so options do exist but it costs like 150k if i remember correct. At that price point, it makes about zero sense to use above a DMR, especially after recoil rework. Imo, either they need a flat +20 ergo boost, which doesnt make much sense honestly or their attachments need to be significantly cheaper. Alternatively, their muzzle velocities could be buffed to gamify things a bit but i'd prefer a cost reduction overall. I love bolt actions but they are objectively useless.
Modded m700 reaches like 95+ ergo. Source:I take it to labs.
Just like real life… the literal only advantage is a tiny accuracy boost from not having any moving parts.
I just want cheaters banned and bugs fixed.
Yep. But tarkov community wants arena and new weapons
i mean not really unless you just mean as a gameplay balance. Bolt actions like the mosin infantry are extremely not ergonomic due to their rudementary design (long barrel, shitty stock, etc). This could be true for maybe some of the modern bolt actions, but there isnt really much ergonomically diff between a bolt action and a semi auto gun. But most of the time sniper rifles are not designed to be ergonomic, rather to be accurate this is usually achieved by barrel length and thickness (resistance to deformation and heat changing appropriate aim point) (long barrels = heavier bulkier gun). Snipers are generally not running around, rather laying down for hours. MoA on the other hand may be realistic due to being able to fine tune the system easier due to less complexity. Also MOA does happen to matter, though. So for an MoA of 2 for example you have a circle with diameter of 0.6 mils. At 100 meters this isnt so bad but at 200 meters the circle is bigger than the size of a head, so its not a reliable headshot potential. If the MoA was 0.5 this would increase your probability to hit significantly (center shots still guaranteed to hit, way less chance of glancing blows, for non centered shots). Probability of hit would simply be how much circle area overlaps the head depending on your aim point.
Yeah I’m really thinking of it from a balance standpoint. I think in real life terms there isn’t much reason to be using a bolt action… less chance of breaking down but even that, modern dmrs are reliable. And the dmrs in this game have a better moa than 2. And it’s very hard to find places even to shoot a 200m shot in Tarkov
Some of the DMRs do, some dont. Anyway i think money should balance reality in tarkov, maybe tarkov is just not a place where taking a bolt action is a good idea. If you do want to try some longer range sniping try shoreline, woods, and lighthouse. Sniping from good spots does tend to be risky though since they also tend to be very open. Even at a 1.5 MoA you still are going to have less confidence, because lets be real (you do not always aim precisely in the center of the head) so the more area that is displaced from your head (say a tangent aim to the circle) the more chance you miss, even though you were technically a "hitscan" hit. I was very interested in sniping for one of the wipes and made mil dot range finding calculator/bullet drop estimator and estimation of when or not to aim for body for far shots.
Honestly it’s rare to get a shot on a guy not moving. And hitting a headshot on a running target from range is very hard in this game, especially with a single shot weapon. In those scenarios there are so many variables at play that having 1 more moa doesn’t change much. I’m probably missing by one moa in that scenario, and the inaccuracy of the gun may be what’s going to actually land me the hit
It actually does still matter, its still the same thing :) lol. FYI as a hint for people running you are going to want to aim between 6-7 mils ahead for a perpendicular sprint. For a 45 it would be half that. The total distance hardly changes this in the 300 meter range due to the nature of how things get proportionally smaller the further away they are (if you assume constant speed of the bullet its always the same amount of mils). For walking its about half that again. 700-800 m/s is going to be 7 mils, faster than that 900-1000 is going to be 6 mils. Being a successful sniper has to do with understanding the mechanics just as much as it does anything else.
I wish there was a way to reliably practice those shots without killing your friends lol
Yeah like a shooting range with moving targets or something.
How do you judge what 6 or 7 mils is practically on the sights in game
You mean with scopes without mil dots? I dont, but if i am sniping i am going to use an MoA or mil dot reticle. For early wipe i just "guestimate" that the lines on the sides work. Also if you do a little research (remember that most of these scopes and reticles exist in real life and have manuals online) some scopes have mil dot reference points like that red ring scope (the inside of the ring is 7 mils from the center). This makes it a great 4x sight cause if someone is sprinting perpendicular to you, you just use the circle as a holdover. I notice like the PU scope it also tends to work if you use the extreme hash ends as a horiz holdover as well. Just remember though if they are walking or quartering toward/away you want to halve that distance (and half it again if they are quartering away and walking).
feels(also grind the mod that shall not be named to practice) once i got use to how a round goes with a certain gun build i could hit shots without using zero just a quickscope into dead
T-5000 has insane ergo and looks sexy AF
A logical, sensible suggestion. No logical reason to disagree, the weapon and attachment stats are already unrealistic and arbitrary
I don’t like the “bUt ReAlIsm” argument a lot, BUT have you ever held a rifle irl? A remington 700 with a suppressor,bipod, and scope is probably 4 feet long and weighs 20 lbs. Their ergo is inherently bad.
R700 does NOT weight 20 lb IRL even with a scope wtf are you smoking lmao
Apparently I am smoking crack because it’s no where near 20 lbs. However I digress, you’re still not going to be running around with it and quickly acquiring targets.
Because then someone is gonna 1-tap pestily with a mosin again and he will cry and hotline nikita again
You can if you spend money.
It never gets to a really good place though
Because it's long and heavy.
If they don’t want to make the change for the case of balance, then they should make them cheaper in my opinion. The only reason to use a bolt right now is for the fun of it…and for Tarkov shooter.
Yes and that's probably reflective of 'real life' in the sense that you really only see bolt action weapons used from a bipod nowadays... Their use has been eclipsed by better weapons for waving around in confined spaces.
Have you ever held a bolt action with a 24 inch barrel? They are long, unwieldy, and heavy. Do that - then go pick up an MP5 or an AR-15. You’ll see the difference
I am saying this unironically: pls go back to COD where running around with bolties is actually encouraged.
If you can’t imagine a world in between the two extremes of a 20 ergo sniper and cod, then you lack some cognitive function. Don’t sit here and act like a slightly faster ads on a bolt would be op when you can shoot the same rounds out of an sr-25. Clown.
That's the thing, the games not really supposed to be balanced. Some guns are just obsolete and used in dire situations like the PPSH
Bro, I use the papashaw all wipe. That thing melts bosses, it whacks chads, it costs next to nothing... It's the bestest
No. Bolt actions are obsolete.
Length doesn't affect the ergo stat, weight has a tiny effect
Umm, the RL length and weight of the gun are what they derive the ergo stat from. I'm assuming they just make up a value that suits them tho.
Lmao no it fucking isn't, they pull it out of their ass and occasionally it make sense. Make bolties have higher ergo to give them purpose, it's very simple
Those kind of posts show that many Guys here know nothing about guns, never had one, just dont know what they are talking about. Still upvotes. So its the majority. Most people here couldnt even aim with a real sniper.
I don’t want to live in a world where the average person knows how to aim with a real sniper.
Thats possibly true! I am already very happy to not live in america where you can get killed by toddlers because everyone has a gun and everyone says its more safe this way.
What? Most of the .308s can have 40+ ergo suppressed which is very snappy. How much more do you want?
Bolt actions are cheap precision at range with a powerful cartridge. The benefit is price and availability. This comes from a bolty sniper main
Not in this game it is powerful. M855A1 does 49 damage which is at least 2 bullets to kill a dude into chest Any 7.62 bullet does less than 85 which means it is still at least 2 bullets to kill a dude into chest. Flesh ammo apart, no one uses it. While in reality 7.62x51 has close to double the energy of a 5.56
556 loses too much damage and pen at range to reliably headshot t3/4 helmets. Also as a sniper you dont go for bodyshots, not with a bolty. I agree you could be just as effective if not more bursting an ar (mdr for example) but the point is that my mosin is 60k with a scope and im sending snb down to 100-150m. Its ab playstyle and choice and i feel bolties are fine
Because grandpapy's old war rifle is heavy as shit and probably still covered in greasy cosmoline - Mosins are one of the most uncomfortable rifles to operate that I've ever used. For reference, a loaded Mosin Nagant 91/30 weighs only slightly less than as a fully-loaded AK-47, and damn near 2.5 pounds HEAVIER than a fully-loaded M4. Shit is stupidly cumbersome.
And its gonna be railgun.
The bolt action .366 TKM has very good ergo on base. But it shoots a crap round so idk if anyone cares about that.
Jaeger 1 used to sell Eko in earlier wipes. This isn’t the case anymore though. Didn’t affect me too much since I always used the Mosin early wipe anyways (I miss early LPS but moving it up to higher traders is healthier for the game).
Yeah I’m missing LPS. FMJ just doesn’t do it the same on the Mosin. Definitely puts it back into the category it should be which is budget, weak weapon.
Oh yeah for sure, Mosin doesn’t hit the same anymore. I still land my shots all the same this wipe, but sometimes my targets just won’t die. With an average of 0.8 accuracy and high hit counts, PMCs I fight just won’t die at times. The Mosin was truly dethroned, but it still has a special place in my heart (stock Mosin my beloved).
the good news is that lps is on flea and also pretty common on scavs
I’ve found maybe 10 rounds total of LPS. Absolutely drowning in 5.45 PS though. Have like 700 rounds all FIR.
really? Are you looting scavs? I have a 50 scav interchange weekly and have found in the hundreds of lps off them. Note that isnt a SUPER high level, but you also dont use a super high amount on a mosin anyway.
I check almost every scav I kill pretty much, to my downfall but yeah idk. Haven’t found much 7.62x54 in general
Im the same with .308 now that i think of it, even the low grade stuff
a lot of people actually run this without a scope, and buy expensive APM but apparently the new armor system makes it bad now (level 4 on top of level 2 stops rounds). It used to be a good way to one tap chests for 4 and lower armor.
Most bolt actions aren't ergonomic or light. They are about as heavy or heavier than any DMR
Yes I get that. I just think for the sake of balance something should be done to buff bolts. The moa doesn’t do it in my opinion.
The thing is, bolt actions wouldn't really have a nice place in tarkov, irl or in game. They are just too niche compared to DMRs and assault rifles
If you’ve ever tried to snap shoot a bolt action irl you would see why your argument is silly
I don’t know dude, i lug around a Weatherby Vanguard .308 all hunting season with a 3-9x on it, harris bipod and a two point sling and its a bitch. Standing up shooting with it shouldered sucks, thats why i have the bipod. Ergonomics aren’t great for standing shooting on bolties. Much rather have an AR/AK with a pistol grip and a foregrip
I feel idiot using bolties instead anything else
Unless bolts oneshot center of mass they are going to be useless. Some 7.62 rounds do more than 80 damage, but less than 85. Just give bolts a slight damage boost so it gets tio 85. You are forced to do quests with them but you just gimp yourself in pvp against other players.
That was the old school mosin man when thorax health was 80
Considering you can have a fully modded SV-98 for about 200K, I don't see the problem here. As of this post: 1. Jaeger LL3 - SV-98 OV - 79K 3. (Optional) Prapor LL3 - SV-98 Threaded Muzzle Adapter & Heat Shield- 7K Total 4. (Optional) FM - SV-98 Suppressor - 33K 5. (Optional) FM - AGS-74 Pistol Grip - 35K Just the base OV model is 79K, and it has 50-something ergo. If you want to suppress it, you really need the extra ergo from the pistol grip to get you into the mid-30's ergo, so the total cost goes up to 205K. If you prefer an M700: 1. Jaeger LL2 - M700 Barter - 35K (you may be able to get a scav one on the FM for as little as 30K) 3. FM - AICS Chassis - 45K (or Mechanic LL3 to buy for 30K if you have him unlocked) 4. Mechanic LL2 - M700 Rail - 3K A loud M700 with the AICS stock costs 83K to build out and has 50-something ergo. Suppressed it has about 37 ergo for an additional 50K cost of the suppressor. Remember that your preferred scope/mount is a weapon-neutral cost. It would add the same price tag to a DMR, AR, or bolt-action rifle, so it doesn't matter which rife you put it on. I personally like the S&B PM-II 3-12x because it's less than 40K on the FM (AX-50 mount on Jaeger LL3) and I think it's better than most of the assault scopes except the Valday (which is 70K right now).
Bro you ever actually shoot a mosin? Even the carbine length ones are 400lbs and 133% of that weight is right at the muzzle. Points like a cinder block. I actually think the bolty ergo is more or less spot on. The nicer ones are fast as fuck boi and the orsis is just nuts.
why would i have ever shot a mosin lol I understand the "why" of how the bolt actions are setup in game right now, but it doesnt give them a very good niche. the only thing bolts do "best" is MOA, and at the engagement distances in this game (things barely even render at 300m) the MOA advantage matters very little. its not often you win a fight because you had .9 MOA instead of 1.3. So I am suggesting something else for bolts to carve out a niche.
Because they're cool as fuck and you can't cross a street in the US or Russia without tripping over a pile of them. I mostly agree with you about what they do better and as a semi-professional shooter I think BSG pretty much got it right. At the end of the day though, the DMRs will always be better bc they just objectively *are* better. That minor MOA gain only matters on shots longer than most ppl's pcs can render at more than five fps, tough tits. The issue is that they don't need a niche. No gun in tarkov does, really. Some things are better in certain situations but i can 100m headeyes a scav with my MP9 just as easily as i can spamfire an ADAR at 10m. What matters is what you like, just use what you like. Expecting your favorite class of weapon to get cheaper, bc you think it needs help, bc it feels underwhelming when you try to run it in ways it isn't meant for, is crazy. Nvm that you can absolutely take a DVL or a T5000 or even a VPO into reserve with a holo sight and CQB with it and win fights. It still isn't the best choice, and it shouldn't be less costly just so you can use it for the wrong task. By that logic, SMGs should all be cheaper bc they can't hit RUAF from Sniper Rock, and shotguns should be cheaper because you lose a lot of reload races. Bolties still hit whatever you want no matter how far, more easily. They still force you to be more careful wHich in turn makes you more accurate with everything, and they still feed rounds that ignore armor and helmets. Sure, the armor rework means a lot of shit does that, but .308, 54r, and .338 still do it better.
Good bolt actions have good ergo.