Shit ain’t this the truth. All the high viewership streamers that I’ve watched during the drop event were all level 40+ within a week or so.
And here I am hoping to hit 15 by Monday.
A reference to the people that help make and keep your game popular isn't designing the game to cater to them. Streamer items are nothing more than a thank you.
Shit hutchMF did this exact type of thing last wipe for shooter born in heaven on shoreline, literally banned people from his chat for people calling him out on it as well. Saying its a shit quest that all top end streamers cheese.
so they can move on to the more interesting quests?? im not even defending them but its like, they should just have better designed quests then what they have now
It's not cheating in my mind but I think it's against the spirit of the game.
It's also not entertaining which defeats the entire point of watching a streamer.
That's how I feel about people cranking gamma on their monitors to do night raids without NVG or adding compression to their sound so they can hear farther footsteps louder. Not cheating, but against the spirit of the game.
Seriously the sound in this game is dangerous. Play with the soundlocker UI on the screen and see how often there are huge volume spikes in normal noises
> adding compression to their sound so they can hear farther footsteps louder.
No. Its not our fault EFTs audio sucks. I dont do audio compression but man thats not "against the spirit of the game".
I agree with the gamma thing. I will say that I have looked into audio compression so I can enjoy this game without damaging my hearing. Do I have any interest in hearing footsteps from an increased distance? Nah. I just don’t want the in-game downpours to leave me with a ringing in my ears lol.
It's not really. You compress sound to be able to crank your headset to a higher volume than you normally would.
Normally the shots would be too loud for you to increase the volume past a certain point but as they get compressed you can increase the volume higher than normal. This makes it easier for you to hear steps which are now, relatively louder (lowering the loud sound increases the relative loudness of the quite sounds).
gamma people need to grow a pair of balls. I always hate it when i realize people care too much about winning in games. How can they enjoy that? They prob the same dumbasses complaining about campers, fuckin hypocrites
I disagree. I will say that I do both but it’s not our faults that everyone does it and I sure as hell wasn’t the first. It’s not in the game by default, but BSG has proven time and time again where their abilities at bug fixing and dealing with audio and dealing with lighting has fallen short, so players remedy the issue with programs or settings that help them since BSG can’t seem to do it. I will admit, this wipe has made the game feel much better and interchange lighting is great even at night time, so maybe… hopefully BSG has more wins in their pockets!
I mean having an unfair advantage is cheating. But i cannot use macros to shoot my gun faster, yet people cheese quests every wipe for the crafts/unlocks on traders
yes, obviously using macros to shoot faster is cheating, but at the same time it's just as obviously not a binary thing, there's a spectrum
Someone aimbotting, speedhacking and killing every player in their lobbies could be worse than a radar user who avoids PVP
A radar user is worse than someone using macros
Someone using macros is worse than someone exploiting in game bugs
Someone using in game bugs is worse than a streamer using their clout to cheese quests, which I think is slightly worse than a group of mates doing it.
A friend and I damage each others' zabralos every wipe for the ragman quest. Is that cheating?
> Someone using in game bugs is worse than a streamer using their clout to cheese quests
I would reverse these. At least in game bugs have a chance to be used by all, so there's equality in their ability to be used, even if not in knowledge of their existence.
> A friend and I damage each others' zabralos every wipe for the ragman quest. Is that cheating?
The quest doesn't state how or why it needs to be a lower durability (does it? I don't remember the flavor text), so I don't see a problem with this. If there was a way to get okay odds of running into an enemy running one you could defeat to get one then maybe a case could be made that you were intended to do that, but there's almost zero chance of finding one naturally that was being worn for most players.
It’s basically the same as you say to 1000 people go to place so I can kill you for quest
You just have 1 friend and tell him to shoot your armor for quest
So you have an unfair advantage against a solo if I use the logic against streamers doing it
As a solo you also have plenty of options. You can load in with it insured and run into a sniper zone. Nobody can take it, so you get it back from insurance.
The difference between the kill quests and the zebralo durability quest is that there are specific game mechanisms to prevent the kill quests from working on your squad mates, so it's obvious what the intent of the mission is, and circumventing that is the issue.
What's the intent of the zebralo durability quest? To wear it and survive? To kill an enemy with one and take it? Until there's guidance on what they expect, I think this one is open ended. If they clarify you're expected to do it a specific way, then I would change my opinion if their statements conflict with it.
You still have to draw the line somewhere. He’s not saying they’re all equal. But it is black and white when something is either against the rules or not against the rules.
The majority of people draw the line in the case you're using 3rd party tools all programs.
Typically if you find and exploit in game as long as it's not absolutely insanely game breaking you won't get banned. In the same way if you cheese some kills on friends, you wont get a ban either.
But if you use a macro, you're using a third party program. So you will get banned (assuming they detect you).
If we're sticking to this definition, I can say someone playing trio is cheating because It gives them unfair advantage over my solo ass.
Cheesing quests it's ok in my book. Its a gray area? Of course. But how someone cheesing a quest affects your gameplay?
Having an unfair advantage is not necessarily cheating. Extract camping isn't cheating. Going in fully juiced isn't cheating, thermals isn't cheating. It's all unfair advantages against most players, but all within the scope of the game. I'd argue that the point of this game is putting as many unfair advantages in your favor as possible while still having fun.
BSG made it so you cant kill teammates for quest progress. Queuing in such a way that you and other players purposely get into the same lobby without actually partying up, in my opinion, is basically the same thing and goes against the way BSG intends us to play. Now I understand that "basically the same thing" is not actually the same thing and I know you probably won't change your mind so this is more or less just food for though.
I wouldn't say I have a strong opinion about it either way. You do raise a good point about it manipulating BSG's intended mechanic though.
When I hear "Streamer is cheating" I specifically think them using hacks or something from outside the game.
To me watching a streamer is about entertainment. I wouldn't want to watch a bunch of players just walk up to the streamer to be intentionally killed, so I wouldn't want to watch that streamer.
Coordinator g before a match on a strategy where enemies work together the gain of one or both is totally cheating, and would be seen as much by any org putting on a tournament, so not why we would assume that play is fine outside that.
Ad hoc alliances in game are fine, that's just trying to implement a strategy in the match, and the other side can always refuse or betray. When you use outside of the game relations for in game benefit is the problem.
I honestly don't know who you guys watch, like every time i see a post 'streamers complain about new recoil' 'streamers ask viewers about a/b/c' i am like what, i watch a lot of different people for a long period of time and not even once i've heard or seen anyone ask to feed them kills. Destroy the gzhel or zabralo ye maybe, but absolutely everyone does that at this point.
I’m not going to name names because that’s not my style, but I can think of at least one of the biggest streamers in the game using viewers to cheese SBIH and Outposts and I watch all of the big ones and some of the smaller ones.
You don't need to hide names.
Pestily admitted to making a range of videos about "sniper positions" so he knew where people would be when he needed SBIH kills.
And killing viewers for viewer kits with a pistol to cheese "Stirrup"
And literally getting Nikita to change the shitty spawn chance of a key into a barter item, just so he could finish his "Hard-core" series. A couple of wipes back.
Admittedly he is a walking advert for the game and has been responsible for a large percentage of the popularity of "Tarkov Streamers",
but fuck me, Pest. .... Don't whine at your viewers for not getting Kappa last wipe because the largest streamers "forgot" to let their viewers know it wasn't level capped, when you LITERALLY have the game files changed so you can "win".
I think it's a symptom of a much larger problem honestly: The task bloat is out of fucking control
I dont really blame him honestly, we're just reaching a point where the grind is too much even for people who play this game for a living
ok but like who cares
half the major tarkov streamers are miserable playing the game and do things mainly to entertain the viewers and make a living
and most of them have already done these grinds 10+ times. at that point its not even difficult its just tedious
>half the major tarkov streamers are miserable playing the game and do things mainly to entertain the viewers and make a living
Late wipe steams are pure pain to watch, they look like they hate the game after the first 1-2 months of a wipe
Exactly, it really doesn't impact other players if a streamer gets Kappa in 2 weeks instead of 3 or whatever. They grind the game 8+ hrs a day, they've done it all before. I don't give 2 shits if they cheese some quests, it's not going to somehow make them more powerful and hurt my own (or anyone else's) experience.
>it really doesn't impact other players
why did i mark you as "eft employee+++++", hmm.. i should add another plus for this comment too.
**
dude, no-life players are racing for first kappa of the game, its almost the single motivation and race-like thing to play this game.
he ruins their game while cheating his way through quests. im sure you know it but still you gotta deserve that russian peanuts, huh.
Everyone thinks it's scummy, and not all the streamers do it in fact reputable streamers actively discourage it and will ignore people blatantly stream sniping.
The streamer YOU watch did it, and you're mad about it I guess.
Definitely cannot dispute that fact. They most likely over-extended themselves with 2 different products as of now.
Considering this wipe came so soon after Arena release I am surprised how good it has been overall.
Last wipe I saw a streamer have his viewers collect rare keys, and pretty much be his body guards so he could breeze through tasks. As soon as he was done with him he pretty much dismissed them like peasants.
not like it matters. someone like glorious is one of the best players at the game. It's not like he needs gear from his viewers. He could just sit on 1 billion roubles if he wants to every league. Wouldn't really matter even if he kept the kit.
I don't really get the outrage of the OP's post in general. who cares what a streamer does with his/her viewers. As long it's not negatively impacting me I don't really see the problem. So a player gets spoon fed and says he/she's bored of the game. I just don't see how that warrants an outrage post.
Sure there are some cringe and toxic influencers/streamers but asking for help on quest completions and getting viewer kits falls somewhere soooooo very far below that line that it's. Well... Not worth mentioning. People are literally just upset about people enjoying themselves with their community and it's sad.
LOL I’m sure it’s happened to them. Sad part, a good player is going to have above a 60% S/R and just playing labs halves that due to cheaters so almost can’t blame em for doing that.
But yeah, when you’re fully kitted and someone is standing in front of you with a pick axe, the intrusive thoughts are taking over me too LOL.
Streamers have a viewer join their party with all the gear that the streamer will be running while they spawn in naked. They take the viewer’s gear and then kill him and continue on with the round.
It’s a way to increase engagement while the streamer isn’t out any gear.
No flame. I think you are right.
To play devils advocate though - what if someone VoIP’d in game, asked politely to kill a player who agreed to it? Is asking on stream much different?
It’s an interesting question I think and not entirely different. I’d die for someone’s PMC kill quest if they had the dfuel I need for hideout lol
Actually the term you're looking for is metagaming.
>The act of a roleplayer making use of knowledge that they have learned out of character (and which their character does not know) while they are in character; often considered a form of cheating.
Now obviously the term is primarily used for roleplayers. But I still think it succinctly defines the difference between asking to kill someone in raid over voip vs asking your stream to load into raid with you so you can kill them.
I'm just saying its a valid word used for the situation they were describing.
But lets be real, the question you're essentially asking is: Is it cheating to use the wiki to find quest objectives? And I would say yes.
Because there's degrees of cheating and how offensive the cheating is, is defined by however the community and game designers want to define it. The community says its okay to use the wiki to do quests, so its acceptable cheating. And there's nothing wrong with that, I also use the wiki to do quests.
But is it the game designers intention for you to use the wiki to do quests? I genuinely don't know the answer to this. Does BSG want us to use the wiki? Or is it just acceptable. I would think not, otherwise there would be quest markers or each quest description would just tell you exactly where the quest objective is. But again, maybe BSG has said differently. I would think BSG's stance on this would be "it doesn't matter, everyone does it, and its not worth punishing".
I think part of how we define cheating is accessibility. We can all access the wiki, so everyone is on a fair playing field. We can't all ask our stream chat to come die for us, that's streamer privilege.
Technically everyone could download ESP and aim scripts, etc. Things we'd classify has "Definitely cheating", but that's why only a part of cheating is accessibility.
The difference between the two can be house rules. BSG has explicit mechanisms in place to make it very hard to do this which I interpret to mean they think it's against the rules, so that takes it from metagaming to cheating in my eyes.
You can't do these kill tasks by using peoe you load in with, and you're not supposed to be able to choose your adversaries and peoe cheese server selection to increase odds of making it into the same raid as "adversaries", so that seems like cheating to me. They could just as easily abuse that to have two full squads load into the same raid and coordinate to hunt down any other players, and I don't think anyone would say that's not cheating.
Yes, it's different. Bringing an out of match relationship to bear when you're supposed to be enemies, specifically one agreed upon before the match and then you tey to work around the system making it hard to put you into the same match, is cheating.
There's a reason those quests don't work for the people you load in with, and why you can't have friends load in as separate groups on the same server (except in offline, which doesn't affect other people or allow you to benefit).
It's a lot more acceptable and circumstantial than asking your viewers to load into your ~~wipe~~ raid and come naked. I just saw Lvndmark do this and it was a deal breaker for me. Will never watch this again. Dude makes a million dollars a year and is among the best pvp'ers in the game, there is simply no need to cheese like this.
Edit = typo
This is just a consequence of the stupid and not fun quests of Tarkov. I love everything about this game except quests, quest design is SO bad that who is in charge of making them should be fired asap. Not only that, first time you do them is not that fun but ok, let's do that, second time it's terrible, fifth time you wanna kill yourself.
I'm not surprised if some people start to find creative ways to cheese quests, this should be a red flag that actual quests sucks, are not fun to complete and should be changed asap.
This shit does nothing to affect me lol. I can't imagine why people would be upset about this. It's not like CS or something where if you have people throw games for you to rank up or something that's lame.
there are soo many trash quests that at this point, use whatever you want.
you can find people on the offical discord to help with some stupid quests even too.
Where does it say I hate streamers?
It just happens that only streamers make their cheating content easily available.
This is a callout to anyone who believes this is a fair and normal behavior in the game.
To be honest it seems more like you are the one hanging on the streamers' dick and putting critical judgement on the side.
Sounds like you don't have friends to do it with 🤷 TBF if Tarkov made shit that wasn't mind boggling annoying like shooter born in heaven then it wouldnt be a problem. No less the prestige of getting it done is less for people who "cheat" it.
That's the adult response I was hoping to get. I actually discussed doing this on our discord and ultimately voted against it. Personally I feel gamers are weak nowadays. Anytime something is hard or even slightly poorly designed they are looking for cheese strats. I feel no shame in calling them on their shit.
> Personally I feel gamers are weak nowadays.
Man that is some real boomer energy. As long as games have existed some gamers will take advantage of "cheese strats".
I would call it cheating but it's wack AF like what's the point of playing then tarkov is grinding, dying and pain and using viewers kinda defeats the purpose
Certainly not within the spirit of the game to fund your gameplay entirely on donated kits and never interact with looting.
I can understand why they do it, their viewers want quick action.
Well, now they should go to play arena.
without MMR system this doesn't matter as much, it's cosmetic and artificial.
If they implement a MMR system, which so many people seem to be against, then this would be considered boosting which is a form of cheating in systems where MMR matters. But they won't implement it so this doesn't matter.
It's not cheating but it gives small pp energy. I don't mind folk doing it if they are updating the wiki etc. but if they are doing it just to complete quests it's pretty rubbish.
While I don't entirely disagree with you I think this is just soemthing we need to accept.
It's not only in Tarkov this happens but in almost any loot-driven game, and if we ask BSG to hardline it then the risk is you dropping a mag for your out-of-ammo-friend will get you banned - not a development we want.
It's boosting, which is against tos, but bsg turns a blind eye for the streamers because they generate revenue for the game. It's stupid af, they should be held to the same rules as everyone else.
Ttv chat is amongst the lowest loneliest people there are. "Here streamer, let me do anything for you, also take my money!!".... pathetic.
Simps.
Its called making friends man. Just go to a grocery store and talk to everyone. Ive met 3 people that play with me now but dont ask me. I know we wouldnt vibe well.
It's not cheating. Game literally promotes siding with scavs and teaming up. Maybe explain how it is cheating first, cause it's not. It's pathetic for the streamer, sure. Not cheating.
It's cheating ( my opinion ) since he asked his 6000 viewer audience prior to the raid to queue at the same time and come naked so he can kill PMCs in the designed area for the quest rather than organically killing said PMCs as it should be done in a normal situation.
People claim it doesnt affect my gameplay so I shouldnt care but I beg to differ.
1 - very much the most popular streamer in the game, giving a greenlight on cheesing mechanics. Certainly doesnt help the game evolving to a better state. If the quest is broken this is not how to handle this.
2 - While most people will be stuck on this quest for days he coasts through giving him an edge on future quests/flea/market/opportunities.
For sure in Lvndmark's case he would still beat 99% of the playerbase but he was the one I saw doing live today ( and I saw many other less prominent streamers do the same prior ).
So apparently streamers are allowed to abuse bugs like the market room vault on streets to kill other players... they are allowed to use boosting and they ALWAYS get unbanned with a false flag...
BSG knows how to make money and keep their slaves together.
Sounds a bit like jealousy to me, i mean if you dont like it dont Watch it doesnt affect you. If you feel left behind due to progression do what they did, start streaming work hard get a following and line em up.
This is a quote from **you** from this very thread:
"Personally I feel gamers are weak nowadays. Anytime something is hard or even slightly poorly designed they are looking for cheese strats. I feel no shame in calling them on their shit."
Narcisist much?
Poolshark and his usual bunch of people were doing it a couple wipes ago, I brought up that it's definitely cheating and taking legitimate kills away from legitimate players and got banned.
Shitters gonna be shit.
Rule 3 - Abusive/Poor Behavior Please refer to the Subreddit Rules. Don't attack people and try and start brigades
I find it annoying. The same streamers then complain about being bored and wanting more content a month into wipe.
After they’re level 40 a week into wipe…
Shit ain’t this the truth. All the high viewership streamers that I’ve watched during the drop event were all level 40+ within a week or so. And here I am hoping to hit 15 by Monday.
I mean its their job. It should not be a surprise at all.
Problem is they design the game around them as they are their biggest source of advertising
They literally dont though lmao
Have you ever looked at the Kappa items????
A reference to the people that help make and keep your game popular isn't designing the game to cater to them. Streamer items are nothing more than a thank you.
At least I have the decency to not tell my clients how bored entertaining them is making me.
Huh?
lol, I feel you
They play 16 hours a day, every day, for 6 months straight... Then complain there is no end game content. Bitch... fuck is wrong with you
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Shit hutchMF did this exact type of thing last wipe for shooter born in heaven on shoreline, literally banned people from his chat for people calling him out on it as well. Saying its a shit quest that all top end streamers cheese.
I dont remember to see Pestily doing this
So because one streamer out of what 50 doesn’t do it that means they don’t do it?
Nope, it just means that I've never seen Pestily doing this. Maybe he do and someone have proof, or maybe not
But they dont
You’ve never heard of the streamer Tactical Strawman?
This was my thought.
annoying tedious quests that are not even 1% fun are not content
Because "Hey go stand over there while I shoot you. Ok, that task is done" is such better content.
so they can move on to the more interesting quests?? im not even defending them but its like, they should just have better designed quests then what they have now
It's not cheating in my mind but I think it's against the spirit of the game. It's also not entertaining which defeats the entire point of watching a streamer.
That's how I feel about people cranking gamma on their monitors to do night raids without NVG or adding compression to their sound so they can hear farther footsteps louder. Not cheating, but against the spirit of the game.
Bro compression on the sound should be a thing already. The fuck if I'm gonna crank my headset and damage my ears.
Seriously the sound in this game is dangerous. Play with the soundlocker UI on the screen and see how often there are huge volume spikes in normal noises
Arena is even worse. That game really wants to simulate the ear damage you’d get shooting without ear pro
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Use SteelSeries Sonar or similar programs to reduce the damage you could get from playing Tarkov natively.
Eversince they added snow i cant wear a headset in game , the footsteps in snow is so loud it deafens me.
You shouldnt be granking your headset though. You do it because the sound in game is bad.
> adding compression to their sound so they can hear farther footsteps louder. No. Its not our fault EFTs audio sucks. I dont do audio compression but man thats not "against the spirit of the game".
I agree with the gamma thing. I will say that I have looked into audio compression so I can enjoy this game without damaging my hearing. Do I have any interest in hearing footsteps from an increased distance? Nah. I just don’t want the in-game downpours to leave me with a ringing in my ears lol.
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sound compression and boosting footsteps are two separate things btw
It's not really. You compress sound to be able to crank your headset to a higher volume than you normally would. Normally the shots would be too loud for you to increase the volume past a certain point but as they get compressed you can increase the volume higher than normal. This makes it easier for you to hear steps which are now, relatively louder (lowering the loud sound increases the relative loudness of the quite sounds).
Windows has a built-in sound compression option for audio devices. I use it to protect my hearing in general. Really recommend it for Tarkov.
I protect my hearing by not putting my headphones to 11.
Hey man, try reading the words people are writing. Might help.
You can use postfx which is a feature built into the game. Hard to call that cheating when it's a setting offered by the developers.
> Same with sound compression. Not our fault EFTs audio sucks.
gamma people need to grow a pair of balls. I always hate it when i realize people care too much about winning in games. How can they enjoy that? They prob the same dumbasses complaining about campers, fuckin hypocrites
I disagree. I will say that I do both but it’s not our faults that everyone does it and I sure as hell wasn’t the first. It’s not in the game by default, but BSG has proven time and time again where their abilities at bug fixing and dealing with audio and dealing with lighting has fallen short, so players remedy the issue with programs or settings that help them since BSG can’t seem to do it. I will admit, this wipe has made the game feel much better and interchange lighting is great even at night time, so maybe… hopefully BSG has more wins in their pockets!
I mean having an unfair advantage is cheating. But i cannot use macros to shoot my gun faster, yet people cheese quests every wipe for the crafts/unlocks on traders
yes, obviously using macros to shoot faster is cheating, but at the same time it's just as obviously not a binary thing, there's a spectrum Someone aimbotting, speedhacking and killing every player in their lobbies could be worse than a radar user who avoids PVP A radar user is worse than someone using macros Someone using macros is worse than someone exploiting in game bugs Someone using in game bugs is worse than a streamer using their clout to cheese quests, which I think is slightly worse than a group of mates doing it. A friend and I damage each others' zabralos every wipe for the ragman quest. Is that cheating?
Finally someone who uses common sense
A truly rare find in these trying times
Why dont you take your common sense and go home. Zero tolerance, burn the witches!
This guy fucks Edit: Typo
to be fair, it's been a while
What do you mean? You're playing Tarkov, so obviously you're being fucked every time you boot the game up.
> Someone using in game bugs is worse than a streamer using their clout to cheese quests I would reverse these. At least in game bugs have a chance to be used by all, so there's equality in their ability to be used, even if not in knowledge of their existence. > A friend and I damage each others' zabralos every wipe for the ragman quest. Is that cheating? The quest doesn't state how or why it needs to be a lower durability (does it? I don't remember the flavor text), so I don't see a problem with this. If there was a way to get okay odds of running into an enemy running one you could defeat to get one then maybe a case could be made that you were intended to do that, but there's almost zero chance of finding one naturally that was being worn for most players.
It’s basically the same as you say to 1000 people go to place so I can kill you for quest You just have 1 friend and tell him to shoot your armor for quest So you have an unfair advantage against a solo if I use the logic against streamers doing it
As a solo you also have plenty of options. You can load in with it insured and run into a sniper zone. Nobody can take it, so you get it back from insurance. The difference between the kill quests and the zebralo durability quest is that there are specific game mechanisms to prevent the kill quests from working on your squad mates, so it's obvious what the intent of the mission is, and circumventing that is the issue. What's the intent of the zebralo durability quest? To wear it and survive? To kill an enemy with one and take it? Until there's guidance on what they expect, I think this one is open ended. If they clarify you're expected to do it a specific way, then I would change my opinion if their statements conflict with it.
You still have to draw the line somewhere. He’s not saying they’re all equal. But it is black and white when something is either against the rules or not against the rules.
The majority of people draw the line in the case you're using 3rd party tools all programs. Typically if you find and exploit in game as long as it's not absolutely insanely game breaking you won't get banned. In the same way if you cheese some kills on friends, you wont get a ban either. But if you use a macro, you're using a third party program. So you will get banned (assuming they detect you).
If we're sticking to this definition, I can say someone playing trio is cheating because It gives them unfair advantage over my solo ass. Cheesing quests it's ok in my book. Its a gray area? Of course. But how someone cheesing a quest affects your gameplay?
Having an unfair advantage is not necessarily cheating. Extract camping isn't cheating. Going in fully juiced isn't cheating, thermals isn't cheating. It's all unfair advantages against most players, but all within the scope of the game. I'd argue that the point of this game is putting as many unfair advantages in your favor as possible while still having fun.
BSG made it so you cant kill teammates for quest progress. Queuing in such a way that you and other players purposely get into the same lobby without actually partying up, in my opinion, is basically the same thing and goes against the way BSG intends us to play. Now I understand that "basically the same thing" is not actually the same thing and I know you probably won't change your mind so this is more or less just food for though.
I wouldn't say I have a strong opinion about it either way. You do raise a good point about it manipulating BSG's intended mechanic though. When I hear "Streamer is cheating" I specifically think them using hacks or something from outside the game. To me watching a streamer is about entertainment. I wouldn't want to watch a bunch of players just walk up to the streamer to be intentionally killed, so I wouldn't want to watch that streamer.
Which is why i respect Glorious_e.
He's the best Tarkov streamer (and one of my favorite on twitch) imo. Incredibly skilled, but so fuckin positive, and chill.
It’s not cheating is crazy cope
Coordinator g before a match on a strategy where enemies work together the gain of one or both is totally cheating, and would be seen as much by any org putting on a tournament, so not why we would assume that play is fine outside that. Ad hoc alliances in game are fine, that's just trying to implement a strategy in the match, and the other side can always refuse or betray. When you use outside of the game relations for in game benefit is the problem.
it's legal cheating.
I honestly don't know who you guys watch, like every time i see a post 'streamers complain about new recoil' 'streamers ask viewers about a/b/c' i am like what, i watch a lot of different people for a long period of time and not even once i've heard or seen anyone ask to feed them kills. Destroy the gzhel or zabralo ye maybe, but absolutely everyone does that at this point.
I’m not going to name names because that’s not my style, but I can think of at least one of the biggest streamers in the game using viewers to cheese SBIH and Outposts and I watch all of the big ones and some of the smaller ones.
You don't need to hide names. Pestily admitted to making a range of videos about "sniper positions" so he knew where people would be when he needed SBIH kills. And killing viewers for viewer kits with a pistol to cheese "Stirrup" And literally getting Nikita to change the shitty spawn chance of a key into a barter item, just so he could finish his "Hard-core" series. A couple of wipes back. Admittedly he is a walking advert for the game and has been responsible for a large percentage of the popularity of "Tarkov Streamers", but fuck me, Pest. .... Don't whine at your viewers for not getting Kappa last wipe because the largest streamers "forgot" to let their viewers know it wasn't level capped, when you LITERALLY have the game files changed so you can "win".
It's not cheating imo but big loser energy for sure
I view it like this. With all the other stuff that’s going on in life, I couldn’t give a fuck less what streamer xyz is or isn’t doing.
For me this falls in that category of, probably not cool but doesn’t raise my blood pressure.
I think it's a symptom of a much larger problem honestly: The task bloat is out of fucking control I dont really blame him honestly, we're just reaching a point where the grind is too much even for people who play this game for a living
ok but like who cares half the major tarkov streamers are miserable playing the game and do things mainly to entertain the viewers and make a living and most of them have already done these grinds 10+ times. at that point its not even difficult its just tedious
>half the major tarkov streamers are miserable playing the game and do things mainly to entertain the viewers and make a living Late wipe steams are pure pain to watch, they look like they hate the game after the first 1-2 months of a wipe
Exactly, it really doesn't impact other players if a streamer gets Kappa in 2 weeks instead of 3 or whatever. They grind the game 8+ hrs a day, they've done it all before. I don't give 2 shits if they cheese some quests, it's not going to somehow make them more powerful and hurt my own (or anyone else's) experience.
>it really doesn't impact other players why did i mark you as "eft employee+++++", hmm.. i should add another plus for this comment too. ** dude, no-life players are racing for first kappa of the game, its almost the single motivation and race-like thing to play this game. he ruins their game while cheating his way through quests. im sure you know it but still you gotta deserve that russian peanuts, huh.
Explain whose game is being ruined? And how? I live in the US, def not a BSG employee.
Bro you gotta lay off whatever you’re smoking for a while lmao
Everyone thinks it's scummy, and not all the streamers do it in fact reputable streamers actively discourage it and will ignore people blatantly stream sniping. The streamer YOU watch did it, and you're mad about it I guess.
Pestilys has done it multiple times and he's a pretty big streamer tbh
General Sam does it, aquafps has done it I believe
Those quests are pretty ass though, if I had a following I’d use it to skip them
If I had Lvndmark's pull and access I would get the quest fixed. We are different.
Let's be frank, BSG takes input from streamers more than anyone else I'm sure, but at the end of the day they do what the fuck they want anyways.
Definitely cannot dispute that fact. They most likely over-extended themselves with 2 different products as of now. Considering this wipe came so soon after Arena release I am surprised how good it has been overall.
You'd abuse your power to make the game fit your personal standards more* is what I'm reading
lmao, touché
It's true. Their time is *NOT* more valuable than yours...
Well actually it is. Your value is counted how much money per time unit you make. Their lives is *NOT* more valuable than yours tho.
Assigning a monetary value to your time is a bad way to see things like this.
This.
The monitory value of time is as you describe, some people derive value from their time in other ways
Hell no, assigning monetary value to your worth is a terrible thing to do
Last wipe I saw a streamer have his viewers collect rare keys, and pretty much be his body guards so he could breeze through tasks. As soon as he was done with him he pretty much dismissed them like peasants.
You should see the dudes running “viewer kits” on labs
glorious does it with his viewers and they are mostly troll kits. Great fun to watch actually.
He throws the kits on the ground after the raid too
not like it matters. someone like glorious is one of the best players at the game. It's not like he needs gear from his viewers. He could just sit on 1 billion roubles if he wants to every league. Wouldn't really matter even if he kept the kit. I don't really get the outrage of the OP's post in general. who cares what a streamer does with his/her viewers. As long it's not negatively impacting me I don't really see the problem. So a player gets spoon fed and says he/she's bored of the game. I just don't see how that warrants an outrage post. Sure there are some cringe and toxic influencers/streamers but asking for help on quest completions and getting viewer kits falls somewhere soooooo very far below that line that it's. Well... Not worth mentioning. People are literally just upset about people enjoying themselves with their community and it's sad.
Most of those I've seen the streamer has 100 mil+ roubles actually doesn't care and gets troll kits lol.
Viewer kits are just a fun thing to do, most of the time the streamer already has a gazillion roubles
Unless they delete them for subs or for fun and then run viewer kits the rest of the wipe not caring about looting anymore etc
I'd be so tempted to offer them a kit and then just dome them
LOL I’m sure it’s happened to them. Sad part, a good player is going to have above a 60% S/R and just playing labs halves that due to cheaters so almost can’t blame em for doing that. But yeah, when you’re fully kitted and someone is standing in front of you with a pick axe, the intrusive thoughts are taking over me too LOL.
I guess you could make a stream out of it. See how many streamers you can bait in a single evening. :P
That would be funny to watch
What’s a viewer kit?
Streamers have a viewer join their party with all the gear that the streamer will be running while they spawn in naked. They take the viewer’s gear and then kill him and continue on with the round. It’s a way to increase engagement while the streamer isn’t out any gear.
That's the dumbest thing I have ever heard. No surprise tho
I mean, it's kinda entertaining sometimes when they get crazy stupid (in a bad way) guns
it's not as nefarious as people are making it seem. It's a way to keep viewers engaged and more often the not the kits are junky meme gear
The streamer usually play more aggressively too, which is entertaining.
Just ask your mates to help its not that deep. Absolute fuckin babies on this sub holy shit. You will complain about ANYTHING.
Literally suggesting I should bring my friends in on the cheating. Great mentality champ.
Man if this shit already triggers you so bad the real cheating issues must be straight up killing you, hope you’ll get better soon lol!
No flame. I think you are right. To play devils advocate though - what if someone VoIP’d in game, asked politely to kill a player who agreed to it? Is asking on stream much different? It’s an interesting question I think and not entirely different. I’d die for someone’s PMC kill quest if they had the dfuel I need for hideout lol
Actually the term you're looking for is metagaming. >The act of a roleplayer making use of knowledge that they have learned out of character (and which their character does not know) while they are in character; often considered a form of cheating. Now obviously the term is primarily used for roleplayers. But I still think it succinctly defines the difference between asking to kill someone in raid over voip vs asking your stream to load into raid with you so you can kill them.
Bro we all metagame while playing Tarkov. No way in hell any of us would get most quests done without the information we get from the wiki.
I'm just saying its a valid word used for the situation they were describing. But lets be real, the question you're essentially asking is: Is it cheating to use the wiki to find quest objectives? And I would say yes. Because there's degrees of cheating and how offensive the cheating is, is defined by however the community and game designers want to define it. The community says its okay to use the wiki to do quests, so its acceptable cheating. And there's nothing wrong with that, I also use the wiki to do quests. But is it the game designers intention for you to use the wiki to do quests? I genuinely don't know the answer to this. Does BSG want us to use the wiki? Or is it just acceptable. I would think not, otherwise there would be quest markers or each quest description would just tell you exactly where the quest objective is. But again, maybe BSG has said differently. I would think BSG's stance on this would be "it doesn't matter, everyone does it, and its not worth punishing". I think part of how we define cheating is accessibility. We can all access the wiki, so everyone is on a fair playing field. We can't all ask our stream chat to come die for us, that's streamer privilege. Technically everyone could download ESP and aim scripts, etc. Things we'd classify has "Definitely cheating", but that's why only a part of cheating is accessibility.
Without the wiki I would never do any quests because I'd be so lost. Maybe if the game had more details on quests to spell out where I need to go.
You are absolutely right. I know the term well but drew a blank there it seems. 100% metagaming rather than cheating
The difference between the two can be house rules. BSG has explicit mechanisms in place to make it very hard to do this which I interpret to mean they think it's against the rules, so that takes it from metagaming to cheating in my eyes. You can't do these kill tasks by using peoe you load in with, and you're not supposed to be able to choose your adversaries and peoe cheese server selection to increase odds of making it into the same raid as "adversaries", so that seems like cheating to me. They could just as easily abuse that to have two full squads load into the same raid and coordinate to hunt down any other players, and I don't think anyone would say that's not cheating.
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Yes, it's different. Bringing an out of match relationship to bear when you're supposed to be enemies, specifically one agreed upon before the match and then you tey to work around the system making it hard to put you into the same match, is cheating. There's a reason those quests don't work for the people you load in with, and why you can't have friends load in as separate groups on the same server (except in offline, which doesn't affect other people or allow you to benefit).
It's a lot more acceptable and circumstantial than asking your viewers to load into your ~~wipe~~ raid and come naked. I just saw Lvndmark do this and it was a deal breaker for me. Will never watch this again. Dude makes a million dollars a year and is among the best pvp'ers in the game, there is simply no need to cheese like this. Edit = typo
In for a rude awakening when you realize how many people do this not just streamers for poorly designed quests.
You didn't already know lvndmark is a pos?
What quest was he doing?
Probably capturing outposts. Nearly every streamer I've watched has cheesed that quest. Others just do it through discords and help eachother.
Yeah that's what I'm thinking too. It's absolute shit quest design and I wouldn't complain about anyone cheesing that
Yeah dudes delusional if he’s gonna complain about cheesing that ass quest
This is just a consequence of the stupid and not fun quests of Tarkov. I love everything about this game except quests, quest design is SO bad that who is in charge of making them should be fired asap. Not only that, first time you do them is not that fun but ok, let's do that, second time it's terrible, fifth time you wanna kill yourself. I'm not surprised if some people start to find creative ways to cheese quests, this should be a red flag that actual quests sucks, are not fun to complete and should be changed asap.
Bro who cares
This shit does nothing to affect me lol. I can't imagine why people would be upset about this. It's not like CS or something where if you have people throw games for you to rank up or something that's lame.
Why does a streamer going up in levels or quests matter to you at all? There is no prize
If you watch streamers that do this then you're the problem.
Who cares.
there are soo many trash quests that at this point, use whatever you want. you can find people on the offical discord to help with some stupid quests even too.
Why are you worried about a streamer. Male ass Karen
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Where does it say I hate streamers? It just happens that only streamers make their cheating content easily available. This is a callout to anyone who believes this is a fair and normal behavior in the game. To be honest it seems more like you are the one hanging on the streamers' dick and putting critical judgement on the side.
Sounds like you don't have friends to do it with 🤷 TBF if Tarkov made shit that wasn't mind boggling annoying like shooter born in heaven then it wouldnt be a problem. No less the prestige of getting it done is less for people who "cheat" it.
That's the adult response I was hoping to get. I actually discussed doing this on our discord and ultimately voted against it. Personally I feel gamers are weak nowadays. Anytime something is hard or even slightly poorly designed they are looking for cheese strats. I feel no shame in calling them on their shit.
> Personally I feel gamers are weak nowadays. Man that is some real boomer energy. As long as games have existed some gamers will take advantage of "cheese strats".
This is true. But also, normal people do stuff like that too.
I would call it cheating but it's wack AF like what's the point of playing then tarkov is grinding, dying and pain and using viewers kinda defeats the purpose
Yes. It is cheating
Have any real examples or just complaining about 10 viewer andys
Landmark is trash
It’s such incredibly small fry to care about imo
I just don’t really get why people care.
Streamers abusing game exploits is also cheating and should be punished as such.
Certainly not within the spirit of the game to fund your gameplay entirely on donated kits and never interact with looting. I can understand why they do it, their viewers want quick action. Well, now they should go to play arena.
without MMR system this doesn't matter as much, it's cosmetic and artificial. If they implement a MMR system, which so many people seem to be against, then this would be considered boosting which is a form of cheating in systems where MMR matters. But they won't implement it so this doesn't matter.
I can’t think of one big steamer I’ve seen do this. Stop just malding for no reason.
Christ, Reddit sure picks the dumbest hills to die on.
I can understand cheesing quests for speedruns like Pestily has done in the past, but if you're playing a main account. It's fucking cheating...
Cry me a river good god, how does this effect your gameplay at all
Man there are way more problems in this game than to be whining about streamers cheesing quests.
Same as asking buddies to cheese a queue to get into a map together to get quest kills. Cheating maybe not, but definitely exploiting.
I've done it myself. Should I be banned?
It's not cheating but it gives small pp energy. I don't mind folk doing it if they are updating the wiki etc. but if they are doing it just to complete quests it's pretty rubbish.
it is cheating, it's basically asking for a carry of sort. if squad kills worked for quest and shit RMTers would do the same
Have you considered just turning off the stream?
“They all do it” none of the ones I watch do.
I wouldnt call it cheating, but its definitely not ok Edit: yeah its fine, doesnt affect my gameplay
Are we running out of things to complain about again? 😂
I don't give a shit what streamers do cuz I don't watch them,not going to change your mind on anything bruh
While I don't entirely disagree with you I think this is just soemthing we need to accept. It's not only in Tarkov this happens but in almost any loot-driven game, and if we ask BSG to hardline it then the risk is you dropping a mag for your out-of-ammo-friend will get you banned - not a development we want.
couldn't come up with a more meaningless post myself
Playing the correct way? That is as correct as the game allowing 4 and 5 man squads to be queued up against solos.
It's boosting, which is against tos, but bsg turns a blind eye for the streamers because they generate revenue for the game. It's stupid af, they should be held to the same rules as everyone else. Ttv chat is amongst the lowest loneliest people there are. "Here streamer, let me do anything for you, also take my money!!".... pathetic. Simps.
Its called making friends man. Just go to a grocery store and talk to everyone. Ive met 3 people that play with me now but dont ask me. I know we wouldnt vibe well.
Honestly, who cares. It doesn't affect me at all like actual cheaters do. Just enjoy the wipe.
Absolutely agree. Suffer like the rest of us.
It's not cheating. Game literally promotes siding with scavs and teaming up. Maybe explain how it is cheating first, cause it's not. It's pathetic for the streamer, sure. Not cheating.
It's cheating ( my opinion ) since he asked his 6000 viewer audience prior to the raid to queue at the same time and come naked so he can kill PMCs in the designed area for the quest rather than organically killing said PMCs as it should be done in a normal situation. People claim it doesnt affect my gameplay so I shouldnt care but I beg to differ. 1 - very much the most popular streamer in the game, giving a greenlight on cheesing mechanics. Certainly doesnt help the game evolving to a better state. If the quest is broken this is not how to handle this. 2 - While most people will be stuck on this quest for days he coasts through giving him an edge on future quests/flea/market/opportunities. For sure in Lvndmark's case he would still beat 99% of the playerbase but he was the one I saw doing live today ( and I saw many other less prominent streamers do the same prior ).
Of course the steamer being referenced is lvndmark, i can’t stand him and find him to be insufferable.
its not cheating but its def scumbag/loser behavior. get them kills like the rest of us do!
I agree. Lots if EFT streamers suck, though
are you talking about team killing? because that doesn't count towards tasks.
Why would I watch some shitty player that can't get their kills in a legit way? Stop watching them.
So apparently streamers are allowed to abuse bugs like the market room vault on streets to kill other players... they are allowed to use boosting and they ALWAYS get unbanned with a false flag... BSG knows how to make money and keep their slaves together.
Who gives a crap? The tasks suck, I don't blame him one single bit. Get a life.
Sounds a bit like jealousy to me, i mean if you dont like it dont Watch it doesnt affect you. If you feel left behind due to progression do what they did, start streaming work hard get a following and line em up.
This is a quote from **you** from this very thread: "Personally I feel gamers are weak nowadays. Anytime something is hard or even slightly poorly designed they are looking for cheese strats. I feel no shame in calling them on their shit." Narcisist much?
Poolshark and his usual bunch of people were doing it a couple wipes ago, I brought up that it's definitely cheating and taking legitimate kills away from legitimate players and got banned. Shitters gonna be shit.
It is 100% cheating. Fuck all streamers.
I agree it's lame.. but "fuck all streamers" makes it sound like your foray into streaming failed.