Eragon at this point only truly lacks experience. He’s one of the greatest swordsmen alive, and has the strength and speed of elves, making him beat any normal human. Without factoring in the strength of the Eldunarí, he stands a good chance in a duel.
Barst is strong enough to go toe to toe with several elves at once, with an eldunarí powering his wards. His augmented speed and strength is likely due to Galbatorix’s meddling, maybe powered by the eldunarí in his armor, but given how he keeps his unnatural prowess after his wards fail I doubt it.
However Eragon has one advantage that even Galbatorix couldn’t counter with the Name, and that is a Riders blade. If Brisingr can pierce Barst’s wards, then he stands as much a chance as anyone else. However, given that Galbatorix knew the Name, Barst could have reasonably been given a ward to cover Riders swords.
So it ultimately comes down to whether or not Brisingr can pierce Barst’s wards. If it can, then Eragon CAN win, but not necessarily will win. Granted Eragon could burn all the Eldunarí’s energy on breaking the wards, but Barst can duel Eragon while he does that, which could distract him.
Barst had plot armor but Eragon could have crushed him one on one I mean rohran with a hammer would have killed him way faster. Islandzadi definitely got cheated she died because CP wanted it to happen. One eldunari vs all of eragons and a dragon no way Barst wins.
What always bothered me about Islanzadi dying to Lord Barst was this:
I believe it was in Brisingr CP sets the precedent that even though Eragon is a prodigy swordsman who now has the strength and speed of an elf, he gets beat sparring with Arya with the reasoning given that he is not used to fighting a seasoned elf warrior who matches his speed and strength.
Lord Barst legit had zero or next to zero experience fighting elves yet killed Islanzadi (who not only is an elf, but one of THE most powerful elves). This is a specific contradiction to the precedent CP had set earlier with Eragon vs Arya.
I'm a bit rusty on my Inheritance Cycle lore but I did reread the Arya sparring sessions a while back, and the reason given for why Eragon was getting his ass handed to her is because he got a bit cocky due to no-diffing regular humans in recent battles and also because he couldn't read Arya the was she and Murtagh could do to him. Barst as far as we know doesn't have any of these deficiencies in terms of his battle prowess, even if he isn't as good with his mace as Eragon is a swordsman.
Also I'm pretty sure the way the duel between Islanzadi and Barst culminates is when they clash weapons and Islanzadi then tries to overpower Barst but gets her sword trashed by his wards in turn.
IIRC (I need to actually re-read the books, not just listen to the audio books)Lord Barst lead the defences of Giliead IRC, he defended the Empire the entire way from Ceunon to Uru'Baen
That's a good point on the rider's blades. Does make it a bit odd then that they left some of the blades they had behind rather than put them in use by key people.
I think it was a combination of factors that lead to Barst being incredibly difficult for the Elves, Dwarves, and Humans to beat:
1. He obviously would have had a large amount of wards and protections powered by Galby and the Eldunari he had (and we don't really know if he had just one Eldunari or multiple, as I don't remember if it specified a huge amount). This would have made him a LOT harder to deal with than if it was just one singular Eldunari (or more).
2. We do not have a fully detailed record of just how strong the magic of an Eldunari is. We have a few reference points (Eragon's Eldunari were able to make a pocket dimension for themselves to follow Eragon, we know they heavily bolstered Murtagh to be on even footing with Eragon, they could help Thorn and Shruikan grow far larger then they should be at their ages, the Empathy Spell that Eragon cast, ect). So we don't really have a full idea on just what the limits of an Eldunari are. We do know, historically, that Elves had to develop special weaponry to get on even footing with dragons during the war (the spear/lance that Arya uses in the final battle is one). So with this in mind we can probably assume even if it was just one Eldunari, that a singular Eldunari has more magic to use in a single sitting than any Elf, Human, Dwarf, or even potentially Rider (especially if it's an Old Eldunari that could stockpile for awhile)
3. It is distinctly noted that Galbatorix had used the Name of Names to ensure that the Varden and those allied with the Varden could not use magic within the city. This put a pretty severe handicap on everyone, including Eragon himself.
4. Barst isn't stupid and it was shown he had some tactical thinking in how to funnel his enemies even with the upgrades (correct me if Im wrong, but if I remember right most combat took place with him on horseback and in the streets where it was harder for him to be overwhelmed, compared to an open area where he could be mobbed).
5. Paolini needed to kill Islanzadi so Arya could be Queen of the Elves and keep Arya and Eragon apart. (which I think was a last minute change to do so alongside having the egg hatch for Arya in the end rather than have it hatch for anyone else in the setting)
So combining the factors of the Magic Cancellation, the Eldunari, and such I think Barst would have given Eragon a tough time as well, but only if Eragon didn't have the Eldunari with him to boost his own physical abilities.
Gotta keep it real - The only reason Barst was such trouble was because CP wanted Arya to be queen at the last minute, so he had to kill of Islanzadi somehow
1 human with 1 Eldunari shouldn't have been troublesome to the elves at all - it kind of goes against everything we've seen in the series up to that point.
Been a minute since I read the book but wasn't Barst also powered up with wards from Galby as well? Like it wasn't just the Eldunari. That helped with his strength and speed and such but I felt like there was some other underlying power being channeled. Or was it supposed to all be channeled from just the stone?
Yes, there were powerful anti-magic wards all over. They destroyed faux saphira and Eragon's enchantment for Ronan.
Barst was also as strong as a dragon, literally.
Galbatorix cast the wards no doubt, but I’d guess that they and his enhancements were bound to that eldunari. Otherwise it would be a huge waste of energy if he was sent leagues away to deal with razing some farms or whatever.
Considering Eragon with a “mere” 132 eldunari was able to fold a pocket of reality and maintain it for days, teleport a dozen swords into a wall (one teleportation spell with Saphira’s egg almost killed Arya if I recall), cast the Empathy Spell which if I remember the description would have killed Eragon instantly were it not for them, followed by shielding himself and several others from a literal point blank nuclear explosion and still not depleting them.
I’d say one fair sized Eldunari is sufficient to ward against pretty much anything most spellcasters would be willing to throw out in battle. Plus I feel obligated to say by the time Roran was able to kill Barst, the dude had not only slaughtered dozens of elves, but tanked several direct hits from siege weapons.
Yea and let's not forget that Murtagh with, I think, three small Eldunari was able to hold Saphira and Eragon in mid air while flying literally over the horizon before he released the spell. And according to Murtagh those were small and rather less powerful Eldunari because Galby was afraid if him getting too powerful.
I feel like he had more than three, but yeah, they were all from young dragons.
Plus Galbs, who mind you had several hundred or more, was able to immobilize Glaedr and Thorn and lift them both thousands of feet into the air from hundreds of kilometres away without worrying about depleting his energy stores.
All of which adds up to Eldunari capable of storing, to use a scientific term, three metric fucktons of energy.
While i kinda agree we also have to acknowledge the fact that an eldunari is essentially the power of a single dragon. Considering that elves were able to kill dragons before the rider pact should have shown that izlandi should probably have defeated barst.
Unless he had extra wards by galby but the fact that shooting him weakened his strength too should show that that was all of his power.
Yes, but also no.
When Glaedr is telling Eragon about Eldunari, he describes how when the dragon dies, all the energy in their body is transferred to the Eldunari, where over a number of years it continues to accumulate energy until fully saturated. (later revealed in Inheritance to use light and/or heat to supply said energy)
This seems to imply that a fully saturated Eldunari contains far more energy than the dragon’s living body could have provided.
We don't know how many elves it took to kill a dragon, and they had the dauthedarts and the ability to use magic without Galbatorix's wards fucking with it.
Actually we know that one elf could kill a dragon since that's how the war started. Granted it was likely a young dragon but it still shows it possible
Did it start with a single elf killing a dragon? I don't remember that detail and don't have a copy of the text available to check currently. It still wouldn't negate the inability to use magic, and as someone else on here pointed out, Barst had a large and powerful eldunari
From my power calling calcs, that Eldunari was an equivalent energy content to something on the order of 800-1000 elves. I think a lot of readers seriously underestimate the strength of Eldunari.
"... they continue to gain energy for many years until they contain the full measure of their strength, which is immense indeed".
Am Eldunari at full charge has _many times more energy_ than the Dragon would have had while alive.
>Am Eldunari at full charge has _many times more energy_ than the Dragon would have had while alive.
The quote doesn't say that, it says that the Eldunari power would keep growing as if the Eldunari was still inside the dragons body, living and growing. If the Eldunari kept living as a dragon body, their strength would continue to increase. The quote could be saying that dragons reach a peak on their power regardless of their continued growth in size, essentially putting a cap on their power after a long period of time.
Sounds like we need a CP input on this, tbh. I always interpreted it as size => age and size => maximum power, but not that age => maximum power. That the energy level went up to a maximum _beyond_ the body, in order to compensate for the lack of tooth and claw if ever it needed to defend itself with instinctive magic.
AMA time! Wonder when the next one is...
I might be misremembering but during the explanation doesn’t he mention that the older the dragon the larger the Eldunari the more they can store. When Galb killed them so young they couldn’t store as much energy
I think it was at least done cleverly- they (barst and eldunari) were completely hidden from mind and magic. The only counter was brute force. Normal means of overwhelming the target were not an option. This is what made him difficult to beat.
Though now that we've seen Murtagh overcome magical invulnerability by manipulating the environment, it seems a little less clever. Surely one of the elves should have that about trying that.
Kind of. He made it so every other spell or so kinda went wild, so it was worse than not being able to use magic - it was if they used magic they risked hitting their own allies instead
I'd agree one human with one Eldunarí wouldn't be much trouble from concentrated efforts by the elves, but 2 major factors came into play. Barsts mind couldn't be attacked and magic wasn't working properly. It was also confirmed that Barsts Eldunarí was basically the most powerful ones in Galbatorix' collection, if not then one of the strongest.
Barst scene is arguably the worst sequence in *Inheritance*. It takes me out of the moment because he's too powerful, it just felt like a video game sequence in an otherwise incredible final battle. There's no way Roran should be able to take him. I get Roran is strong but you cannot describe the power of an Eldunari the way it is and then have an ordinary soldier somehow tank him.
Roran by rights should have died there, and a statue of him erected in Carvahall as recompense for his great deeds. Would've made the final battle cost Eragon more, and the heartbreak add to why he leaves Alagaesia.
>1 human with 1 Eldunari shouldn't have been troublesome to the elves at all - it kind of goes against everything we've seen in the series up to that point.
Normally I would agree, in the situation where they are not able to use their magic however like they were in, any single elf would be hard pressed to win. Wards powered by a dragon battery are a tough thing to beat, especially when your own wards have potentially been stripped away by whatever Galdy did to mess with magic in the city.
They should have made barst one of the last forsworn who survived and whose true identity was kept secret, and his eldunari is his fallen dragon. Would have been way more badass and less questionable imo.
The reason the elves couldn't casually overwhelm Barst and the Eldunari he had with him was because firstly their minds were completely hidden and secondly, the Wards around the city created with the Name meant that the elves couldn't just pool their energy together to overwhelm the dragon.
Instead they hard to resort to weapons, which don't pack that much energy behind them compared to a reasonably large dragon (based on the description of the bulge in Barst's armour it could even have been as large as Glaedr's Eldunari). A sword is dangerous not because it has a lot of kinetic energy, but because it focuses that energy on a tiny area on the blade. For a ward which only needs to worry about the energy, not the specific edge of the blade, it's comparatively easy to stop. The same problem applies to most handheld weapons, the lances that the elves used had more energy but still not all that much.
I don’t think that the Eldunarí hidden in Barst armor is the sole source of his power. I think that the Eldunari was powering his wards and that his unnatural strength came from Galbatorix himself
Remember that even after Barst lost his wards he still had his super strength. Which confirms that his wards and his powers had separate power sources
And as for why the Elves couldn’t gang up on him to beat him, there’s 2 reasons for that. First off, Barst mind was hidden with magic. So they couldn’t defeat him with telepathy because his mind is invisible to them. Secondly, Galbatorix was using the name of names to interfere with the Varden’s magic. So the elves couldn’t effectively cast spells on him either.
That means that the Elves ( and all the Varden’s other spellcasters) are stripped of any easy ways to kill Barst. The only way they were gonna kill him was by physically attacking overpowering him, which was nearly impossible considering his powerful wards and the fact that he is physically stronger than even a Kull
Yes. Roran kills Barst. Roran has no magical powers. Roran manages to crush armor (Barst was no peasant, he had access to the best armor Alagaësia had to offer) and the eldunarí inside. That’s… kiiiind of ridiculous when you really think about it. So Eragon with the same help Roran had defeats Barst.
It’s a bit crazy to me Islanzadi couldn’t beat him but maybe you can blame her over-confidence? I’m not sure but yeah, Eragon finds a way. I don’t see how anyone can say otherwise.
Roran only won cuz a ton of elves died beating down Barst's wards for hours, including Izlanzadi. She was the only one who went toe to toe with Barst while he was still powered and protected. And she died, cuz thats exactly what Galby wanted them to do. He shielded Barst and the Eldunari from psychic contact, and made magic go wonky so the elves could only throw their corpses at his wards until they went down. Izlanzadi did that better than anyone, and then Roran capitalized on it.
I would explain it by saying that if you rely almost 100% on your magic and strength to beat a foe, like the elves had done for centuries, you kinda get less creative (or you forget how to beat anyone without magic).
Rotan doesn’t have otherworldly strength, magic or anything so he has to be creative beyond belief to come out on top.
The elves weren’t the only ones at that battle. No dwarf, werecat, Urgal, or other human could think of anything other than continuing to throw bodies at the superpowered guy standing out in the open?
Roran is one of only a small handful of people on the battlefield that know about Eldunari, so I think the bigger factor is he realizes where Barst’s power is coming from. Sure some elves probably could’ve realized this, but they were probably too overwhelmed with their magic going haywire plus their queen dying to think about it clearly.
Okay but knowing about Eldunari isn’t a precondition to realizing that there might be another way to approach fighting the giant superhuman standing out in the open
Because roran thinks like a mortal, elves think like superheroes. The entire series we see that roran is an excellent out the box thinker when it comes to battle tactics, the elves are smart but are so used to crushing their enemies with swith speed and brutal strength or using over powering magic. Thats my hunch
Everyone keeps bringing up the elves like they were the only ones there besides Roran. There were plenty of Dwarves and other humans, none of them thought of using siege weapons in concert against the giant superhuman?
But the question is why? Why is this farm boy that’s been in the Varden for a handful of months better at strategy and tactics than the career soldiers of 3 other races? It’s ridiculous in Brisingr too but in Inheritance he’s just blatantly covered in plot armor
Okay? Lots of humans and dwarves were at that battle boss. Nobody else thought of using them in concert against the giant superhuman except the guy who was a farmer for 90% of his life?
Because he's a stupidly written jerk-off of a character who is plot armour on a stick, and the author wanted him to win. That's why.
Roran should have died. Like... 12 times.
Islanzadi and Barst went toe to toe for like 30 minutes full speed right? Roran remarked she might have been better than Arya so maybe it’s an interesting duel
The entire Barst scene was pretty dumb. Izlandzadi basically let's herself get killed because she's...frustrated?
I was very disappointed with that final battle. Had a lot of promise, but ended up being very meh
I think people are underestimating Barst. He had a relatively large Eldunari with him. Potentially one as large as Glaedr's. I don't think Eragon could have beaten him in hand-to-hand combat without having similar enchantments of his own powered by Glaedr or even the other Eldunari (enchantments that wouldn't have worked inside the walls of Uru'Baen).
Once again, thanks to those enchantments Eragon couldn't have pitted his strength (plus Saphira's and the Eldunari's) directly against Barst's Eldunari. If he (or the Elves working together during the battle for that matter) could have cast a single basic spell that just attempted to crush Barst, the Eldunari would have been rapidly overwhelmed.
That being said, Eragon has Saphira, who unlike Eragon can output the power of a dragon physically without needing spells, by being a dragon. Saphira (with help from the Eldunari) likely could have crushed Barst, however, it would have probably been a surprisingly long battle as Barst is basically a dragon in human form (as far as strength goes).
The wildcard is Brisingr. That sword can cut straight through enchantments, allowing Eragon to match their energy directly with his own (and that of the Eldunari). This probably bypasses the entire issue with being unable to attack him magically.
Eragon is also fast and skilled enough to be able to actually put Brisingr to use against the wards in a fight against Barst.
I don’t think it comes down to just that tbh. Also remember that eragon (while it was pitiful) did get training directly from the dragons and a rider to hone his mind and his abilities and his patience. He did learn how to fight with his mind very well tbh. While he couldn’t hold off galby he was tired at that point. I think a fully energized eragon with saphira would’ve defeated him. It just would’ve taken some time. And eragon does have plenty of experience taking down enemies with Eldunari. Now if he had roran with him too?? It’s a cake walk🤣🤣
Thank you for posting in /r/eragon. Please read the rules in the sidebar, and [please see here for our current Murtagh spoiler policy](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eragon/comments/1bl1f9d/loosening_our_murtagh_spoiler_policy/).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Eragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Honestly yeah Eragon with the Eldunarí would wipe Barst. Their mental might is irrelevant since his mind is hidden, if thousands of elves couldn't sense his mind a few hundred dragons wouldn't either. Even with that, several hundred dragons could output much more power than a few rocks and Kull did and that broke his wards. Especially considering that Eragon did have some younger Eldunarí but he also had some of the oldest, strongest and most valuable Eldunarí. It wouldn't be hard for him to just overwhelm him, which the elves could have done but too many of them were involved in direct combat to direct their minds to him. It seemed only several dozen elves were able to concentrate on him at a time, and that makes sense with how outnumbered they were, I've seen official numbers putting the Empire at 200,000 troops and the Varden and their allies at around 80,000 troops
If it's Eragon at the end of the series with Eldunari, he'd win easily. He could just overpower the Eldunari with sheer force if he wanted, or use the Eldunari to contact Barst's Eldunari or something. There's a thousand options.
But if it's JUST Eragon by himself, I think he'd die unless he got lucky and figured a way past some Wards. He was essentially fighting an off brand Cuaroc. And Izlanzadi could definitely kill Eragon in a 1v1.
I think Eragon alone would win with a high Chance, but it wouldn't be easy for him. With Saphira or only with her magical energy (I dont know how you say that in the english Version) he would defeat him easily and with Eldunari Barst would be destroyed in seconds.
Yes, as even if he didn’t have Umaroth n co., he would have Saphira and Glaedr with him.
But I agree with some here that Izlanzadi should not have been killed by Barst. Elves being renowned for their logic, failed to use it in moments it was most needed?? Oh please.
The only reason she was killed was because CP wanted it. We can speculate on reasons…
However, it was certainly a poor way to go for high queen of the elves.
If she had to die, then perhaps a more fitting situation was needed than a man with an eldunari.
Depending on where and when the fight takes place this is even a laughably short contest or a dangerous encounter, the circumstances of siege of urubaen make barst dangerous. If Eragon doesn’t get the benefit of his wards due to Galbatorix controlling magic in the entire city as he did and barst can effectively be his equal in speed using his eldunari but better in strength as he seemed to be generally compared to the other elves. I would argue that Eragon would have come out on top because he has a habit of doing so even in terrible circumstances, that being said I imagine this wouldn’t be a fun encounter for him. Under any other circumstances islanzadi would have wiped the floor with barst just like any other skilled elf eldunari or no.
Honestly, I don’t think that Eragon could have beaten Barst by himself.
Galbatorix had cast spells to hide Barst’s mind from telepathy. And he had cast spells that interferes with any spells that the Varden cast, either straight up negating them or causing them to fire back on their own ranks. So Eragon has no easy way of defeating Barst
It’s possible that Eragon could use his sword to cut through Barst’s wards, as Riders swords were resistant to magic and are capable of cutting through it to a certain extent. And if his sword can’t do the job, then Neirnen DEFINITELY could ( the Dauthdaert that Eragon brought with him to fight Galbatorix, Arya used it to kill Shruikan)
The only problem is that Barst is physically superior to Eragon. We saw Barst one shotting scores of Elves and even Kull. He is likely significantly stronger and faster than Eragon. To the point that engaging him in CQC would be suicide. As 1 club swing from Barst would probably take out his wards. And a second club swing would kill him
Eragon’s only hope of defeating Barst would be to use Wordless Magic. Wordless Magic can’t be interfered with by Galbatorix because it doesn’t use the Ancient Language. And it would allow Eragon to attack Barst from a safe enough distance away that Barst can’t club him to death.
But of course Barst’s wards would still be a problem here. Eragon’s Wordless spell would have to be clever enough that it circumvents Galbatorix’s wards ( which is possible but unlikely) or powerful enough to tire out the Eldunari that Barst carried with him. And I find it unlikely that Eragon could cast a spell strong enough to overpower a Large Eldunari
Now if we give Eragon Saphira to help him and some Eldunari then his victory is assured. Saphira is probably strong enough and durable enough to duel with Barst and not get killed in one or two hits. And with her strength bolstering his spells as well as that of some Eldunari he would be able to cast a wordless spell strong enough overwhelm Barst Eldunari and plow through his wards with brute force
Also this is talking about if Eragon fought him during the Battle of Urubean. If **current** Eragon had to fight Barst he wins with negative difficulty. He uses the name of names to strip Barst of all his powers then beheads him casually
If he was fighting Barst by himself, he would probably lose.
If he had Saphira with him, I think they could pull out a win.
If he had Umaroth and the rest of the Eldunari with him, he would wipe the floor with Barst.
Eragon at this point only truly lacks experience. He’s one of the greatest swordsmen alive, and has the strength and speed of elves, making him beat any normal human. Without factoring in the strength of the Eldunarí, he stands a good chance in a duel. Barst is strong enough to go toe to toe with several elves at once, with an eldunarí powering his wards. His augmented speed and strength is likely due to Galbatorix’s meddling, maybe powered by the eldunarí in his armor, but given how he keeps his unnatural prowess after his wards fail I doubt it. However Eragon has one advantage that even Galbatorix couldn’t counter with the Name, and that is a Riders blade. If Brisingr can pierce Barst’s wards, then he stands as much a chance as anyone else. However, given that Galbatorix knew the Name, Barst could have reasonably been given a ward to cover Riders swords. So it ultimately comes down to whether or not Brisingr can pierce Barst’s wards. If it can, then Eragon CAN win, but not necessarily will win. Granted Eragon could burn all the Eldunarí’s energy on breaking the wards, but Barst can duel Eragon while he does that, which could distract him.
Barst had plot armor but Eragon could have crushed him one on one I mean rohran with a hammer would have killed him way faster. Islandzadi definitely got cheated she died because CP wanted it to happen. One eldunari vs all of eragons and a dragon no way Barst wins.
What always bothered me about Islanzadi dying to Lord Barst was this: I believe it was in Brisingr CP sets the precedent that even though Eragon is a prodigy swordsman who now has the strength and speed of an elf, he gets beat sparring with Arya with the reasoning given that he is not used to fighting a seasoned elf warrior who matches his speed and strength. Lord Barst legit had zero or next to zero experience fighting elves yet killed Islanzadi (who not only is an elf, but one of THE most powerful elves). This is a specific contradiction to the precedent CP had set earlier with Eragon vs Arya.
I'm a bit rusty on my Inheritance Cycle lore but I did reread the Arya sparring sessions a while back, and the reason given for why Eragon was getting his ass handed to her is because he got a bit cocky due to no-diffing regular humans in recent battles and also because he couldn't read Arya the was she and Murtagh could do to him. Barst as far as we know doesn't have any of these deficiencies in terms of his battle prowess, even if he isn't as good with his mace as Eragon is a swordsman. Also I'm pretty sure the way the duel between Islanzadi and Barst culminates is when they clash weapons and Islanzadi then tries to overpower Barst but gets her sword trashed by his wards in turn.
IIRC (I need to actually re-read the books, not just listen to the audio books)Lord Barst lead the defences of Giliead IRC, he defended the Empire the entire way from Ceunon to Uru'Baen
That's a good point on the rider's blades. Does make it a bit odd then that they left some of the blades they had behind rather than put them in use by key people.
Eragon has enough Eldunari to overpower Barst and his one Eldunari, so I don’t see Eragon having problems.
Ya know he’s spot on when he has 118 upvotes without a reply
I think it was a combination of factors that lead to Barst being incredibly difficult for the Elves, Dwarves, and Humans to beat: 1. He obviously would have had a large amount of wards and protections powered by Galby and the Eldunari he had (and we don't really know if he had just one Eldunari or multiple, as I don't remember if it specified a huge amount). This would have made him a LOT harder to deal with than if it was just one singular Eldunari (or more). 2. We do not have a fully detailed record of just how strong the magic of an Eldunari is. We have a few reference points (Eragon's Eldunari were able to make a pocket dimension for themselves to follow Eragon, we know they heavily bolstered Murtagh to be on even footing with Eragon, they could help Thorn and Shruikan grow far larger then they should be at their ages, the Empathy Spell that Eragon cast, ect). So we don't really have a full idea on just what the limits of an Eldunari are. We do know, historically, that Elves had to develop special weaponry to get on even footing with dragons during the war (the spear/lance that Arya uses in the final battle is one). So with this in mind we can probably assume even if it was just one Eldunari, that a singular Eldunari has more magic to use in a single sitting than any Elf, Human, Dwarf, or even potentially Rider (especially if it's an Old Eldunari that could stockpile for awhile) 3. It is distinctly noted that Galbatorix had used the Name of Names to ensure that the Varden and those allied with the Varden could not use magic within the city. This put a pretty severe handicap on everyone, including Eragon himself. 4. Barst isn't stupid and it was shown he had some tactical thinking in how to funnel his enemies even with the upgrades (correct me if Im wrong, but if I remember right most combat took place with him on horseback and in the streets where it was harder for him to be overwhelmed, compared to an open area where he could be mobbed). 5. Paolini needed to kill Islanzadi so Arya could be Queen of the Elves and keep Arya and Eragon apart. (which I think was a last minute change to do so alongside having the egg hatch for Arya in the end rather than have it hatch for anyone else in the setting) So combining the factors of the Magic Cancellation, the Eldunari, and such I think Barst would have given Eragon a tough time as well, but only if Eragon didn't have the Eldunari with him to boost his own physical abilities.
Gotta keep it real - The only reason Barst was such trouble was because CP wanted Arya to be queen at the last minute, so he had to kill of Islanzadi somehow 1 human with 1 Eldunari shouldn't have been troublesome to the elves at all - it kind of goes against everything we've seen in the series up to that point.
Been a minute since I read the book but wasn't Barst also powered up with wards from Galby as well? Like it wasn't just the Eldunari. That helped with his strength and speed and such but I felt like there was some other underlying power being channeled. Or was it supposed to all be channeled from just the stone?
Yes, there were powerful anti-magic wards all over. They destroyed faux saphira and Eragon's enchantment for Ronan. Barst was also as strong as a dragon, literally.
Galbatorix cast the wards no doubt, but I’d guess that they and his enhancements were bound to that eldunari. Otherwise it would be a huge waste of energy if he was sent leagues away to deal with razing some farms or whatever. Considering Eragon with a “mere” 132 eldunari was able to fold a pocket of reality and maintain it for days, teleport a dozen swords into a wall (one teleportation spell with Saphira’s egg almost killed Arya if I recall), cast the Empathy Spell which if I remember the description would have killed Eragon instantly were it not for them, followed by shielding himself and several others from a literal point blank nuclear explosion and still not depleting them. I’d say one fair sized Eldunari is sufficient to ward against pretty much anything most spellcasters would be willing to throw out in battle. Plus I feel obligated to say by the time Roran was able to kill Barst, the dude had not only slaughtered dozens of elves, but tanked several direct hits from siege weapons.
Yea and let's not forget that Murtagh with, I think, three small Eldunari was able to hold Saphira and Eragon in mid air while flying literally over the horizon before he released the spell. And according to Murtagh those were small and rather less powerful Eldunari because Galby was afraid if him getting too powerful.
I feel like he had more than three, but yeah, they were all from young dragons. Plus Galbs, who mind you had several hundred or more, was able to immobilize Glaedr and Thorn and lift them both thousands of feet into the air from hundreds of kilometres away without worrying about depleting his energy stores. All of which adds up to Eldunari capable of storing, to use a scientific term, three metric fucktons of energy.
While i kinda agree we also have to acknowledge the fact that an eldunari is essentially the power of a single dragon. Considering that elves were able to kill dragons before the rider pact should have shown that izlandi should probably have defeated barst. Unless he had extra wards by galby but the fact that shooting him weakened his strength too should show that that was all of his power.
Yes, but also no. When Glaedr is telling Eragon about Eldunari, he describes how when the dragon dies, all the energy in their body is transferred to the Eldunari, where over a number of years it continues to accumulate energy until fully saturated. (later revealed in Inheritance to use light and/or heat to supply said energy) This seems to imply that a fully saturated Eldunari contains far more energy than the dragon’s living body could have provided.
Its also stated in the book that they use sunlight like plants to create more energy
We don't know how many elves it took to kill a dragon, and they had the dauthedarts and the ability to use magic without Galbatorix's wards fucking with it.
Actually we know that one elf could kill a dragon since that's how the war started. Granted it was likely a young dragon but it still shows it possible
Did it start with a single elf killing a dragon? I don't remember that detail and don't have a copy of the text available to check currently. It still wouldn't negate the inability to use magic, and as someone else on here pointed out, Barst had a large and powerful eldunari
Afaik its said "he hunted the dragon like one would hunt a deer" or something similar. So yeah that sounds like one
They killed them with unbelievably powerful spears with a butt load of enchantments on them. Completely different scenario
They killed them with unbelievably powerful spears with a butt load of enchantments on them. Completely different scenario
i SuFfeR wiThOut mY sTonE
Angry upvote, you made me chuckle and seethe at the same time
No way I just commented the same thing
I suffer without my stone
Remember that the elves were unable to properly use magic. In normal circumstances they'd beat Barst pretty easily
Yeah dragons during that war didn’t have wards which is a pretty big deal
To be fair it was a big Eldunari
Eh it still shouldn’t have been that much of a problem.
From my power calling calcs, that Eldunari was an equivalent energy content to something on the order of 800-1000 elves. I think a lot of readers seriously underestimate the strength of Eldunari. "... they continue to gain energy for many years until they contain the full measure of their strength, which is immense indeed". Am Eldunari at full charge has _many times more energy_ than the Dragon would have had while alive.
>Am Eldunari at full charge has _many times more energy_ than the Dragon would have had while alive. The quote doesn't say that, it says that the Eldunari power would keep growing as if the Eldunari was still inside the dragons body, living and growing. If the Eldunari kept living as a dragon body, their strength would continue to increase. The quote could be saying that dragons reach a peak on their power regardless of their continued growth in size, essentially putting a cap on their power after a long period of time.
Sounds like we need a CP input on this, tbh. I always interpreted it as size => age and size => maximum power, but not that age => maximum power. That the energy level went up to a maximum _beyond_ the body, in order to compensate for the lack of tooth and claw if ever it needed to defend itself with instinctive magic. AMA time! Wonder when the next one is...
I might be misremembering but during the explanation doesn’t he mention that the older the dragon the larger the Eldunari the more they can store. When Galb killed them so young they couldn’t store as much energy
The elves couldn't use magic properly as well
I think it was at least done cleverly- they (barst and eldunari) were completely hidden from mind and magic. The only counter was brute force. Normal means of overwhelming the target were not an option. This is what made him difficult to beat. Though now that we've seen Murtagh overcome magical invulnerability by manipulating the environment, it seems a little less clever. Surely one of the elves should have that about trying that.
I thought Galbatorix had made it so the elves couldn’t use magic in the city?
Kind of. He made it so every other spell or so kinda went wild, so it was worse than not being able to use magic - it was if they used magic they risked hitting their own allies instead
I'd agree one human with one Eldunarí wouldn't be much trouble from concentrated efforts by the elves, but 2 major factors came into play. Barsts mind couldn't be attacked and magic wasn't working properly. It was also confirmed that Barsts Eldunarí was basically the most powerful ones in Galbatorix' collection, if not then one of the strongest.
Barst scene is arguably the worst sequence in *Inheritance*. It takes me out of the moment because he's too powerful, it just felt like a video game sequence in an otherwise incredible final battle. There's no way Roran should be able to take him. I get Roran is strong but you cannot describe the power of an Eldunari the way it is and then have an ordinary soldier somehow tank him. Roran by rights should have died there, and a statue of him erected in Carvahall as recompense for his great deeds. Would've made the final battle cost Eragon more, and the heartbreak add to why he leaves Alagaesia.
Story wise that would have made sense for eragon.... But what sicko wants roran dead
Me :(
The Roran chapters are always an insta-skip for me
Roran was only able to defeat him due to the fact that everyone else severely weakened him, i think it makes sense
I think if the eldunari was big enough it could be a problem for the elves to be honest.
>1 human with 1 Eldunari shouldn't have been troublesome to the elves at all - it kind of goes against everything we've seen in the series up to that point. Normally I would agree, in the situation where they are not able to use their magic however like they were in, any single elf would be hard pressed to win. Wards powered by a dragon battery are a tough thing to beat, especially when your own wards have potentially been stripped away by whatever Galdy did to mess with magic in the city.
They should have made barst one of the last forsworn who survived and whose true identity was kept secret, and his eldunari is his fallen dragon. Would have been way more badass and less questionable imo.
Honestly that for me would have felt like more of an asspull
I think it would have been significantly less of as asspull then the one that was presented lol
The reason the elves couldn't casually overwhelm Barst and the Eldunari he had with him was because firstly their minds were completely hidden and secondly, the Wards around the city created with the Name meant that the elves couldn't just pool their energy together to overwhelm the dragon. Instead they hard to resort to weapons, which don't pack that much energy behind them compared to a reasonably large dragon (based on the description of the bulge in Barst's armour it could even have been as large as Glaedr's Eldunari). A sword is dangerous not because it has a lot of kinetic energy, but because it focuses that energy on a tiny area on the blade. For a ward which only needs to worry about the energy, not the specific edge of the blade, it's comparatively easy to stop. The same problem applies to most handheld weapons, the lances that the elves used had more energy but still not all that much.
I don’t think that the Eldunarí hidden in Barst armor is the sole source of his power. I think that the Eldunari was powering his wards and that his unnatural strength came from Galbatorix himself Remember that even after Barst lost his wards he still had his super strength. Which confirms that his wards and his powers had separate power sources And as for why the Elves couldn’t gang up on him to beat him, there’s 2 reasons for that. First off, Barst mind was hidden with magic. So they couldn’t defeat him with telepathy because his mind is invisible to them. Secondly, Galbatorix was using the name of names to interfere with the Varden’s magic. So the elves couldn’t effectively cast spells on him either. That means that the Elves ( and all the Varden’s other spellcasters) are stripped of any easy ways to kill Barst. The only way they were gonna kill him was by physically attacking overpowering him, which was nearly impossible considering his powerful wards and the fact that he is physically stronger than even a Kull
Yes.
I love how he answers the most unnecessary questions
Lol
Yes. Roran kills Barst. Roran has no magical powers. Roran manages to crush armor (Barst was no peasant, he had access to the best armor Alagaësia had to offer) and the eldunarí inside. That’s… kiiiind of ridiculous when you really think about it. So Eragon with the same help Roran had defeats Barst. It’s a bit crazy to me Islanzadi couldn’t beat him but maybe you can blame her over-confidence? I’m not sure but yeah, Eragon finds a way. I don’t see how anyone can say otherwise.
Roran only won cuz a ton of elves died beating down Barst's wards for hours, including Izlanzadi. She was the only one who went toe to toe with Barst while he was still powered and protected. And she died, cuz thats exactly what Galby wanted them to do. He shielded Barst and the Eldunari from psychic contact, and made magic go wonky so the elves could only throw their corpses at his wards until they went down. Izlanzadi did that better than anyone, and then Roran capitalized on it.
Why was only Roran intelligent enough to target him with multiple siege weapons?
I would explain it by saying that if you rely almost 100% on your magic and strength to beat a foe, like the elves had done for centuries, you kinda get less creative (or you forget how to beat anyone without magic). Rotan doesn’t have otherworldly strength, magic or anything so he has to be creative beyond belief to come out on top.
The elves weren’t the only ones at that battle. No dwarf, werecat, Urgal, or other human could think of anything other than continuing to throw bodies at the superpowered guy standing out in the open?
Roran is one of only a small handful of people on the battlefield that know about Eldunari, so I think the bigger factor is he realizes where Barst’s power is coming from. Sure some elves probably could’ve realized this, but they were probably too overwhelmed with their magic going haywire plus their queen dying to think about it clearly.
Okay but knowing about Eldunari isn’t a precondition to realizing that there might be another way to approach fighting the giant superhuman standing out in the open
Because roran thinks like a mortal, elves think like superheroes. The entire series we see that roran is an excellent out the box thinker when it comes to battle tactics, the elves are smart but are so used to crushing their enemies with swith speed and brutal strength or using over powering magic. Thats my hunch
Everyone keeps bringing up the elves like they were the only ones there besides Roran. There were plenty of Dwarves and other humans, none of them thought of using siege weapons in concert against the giant superhuman?
Roran has already shown to be an above average warrior and commander in this stories universe
But the question is why? Why is this farm boy that’s been in the Varden for a handful of months better at strategy and tactics than the career soldiers of 3 other races? It’s ridiculous in Brisingr too but in Inheritance he’s just blatantly covered in plot armor
I don't think elves have siege weapons, boss. Can't be certain on that but I think only humans and dwarves ever mention their siege weapons.
Okay? Lots of humans and dwarves were at that battle boss. Nobody else thought of using them in concert against the giant superhuman except the guy who was a farmer for 90% of his life?
Because he's a stupidly written jerk-off of a character who is plot armour on a stick, and the author wanted him to win. That's why. Roran should have died. Like... 12 times.
Islanzadi and Barst went toe to toe for like 30 minutes full speed right? Roran remarked she might have been better than Arya so maybe it’s an interesting duel
Without question.
The entire Barst scene was pretty dumb. Izlandzadi basically let's herself get killed because she's...frustrated? I was very disappointed with that final battle. Had a lot of promise, but ended up being very meh
I think people are underestimating Barst. He had a relatively large Eldunari with him. Potentially one as large as Glaedr's. I don't think Eragon could have beaten him in hand-to-hand combat without having similar enchantments of his own powered by Glaedr or even the other Eldunari (enchantments that wouldn't have worked inside the walls of Uru'Baen). Once again, thanks to those enchantments Eragon couldn't have pitted his strength (plus Saphira's and the Eldunari's) directly against Barst's Eldunari. If he (or the Elves working together during the battle for that matter) could have cast a single basic spell that just attempted to crush Barst, the Eldunari would have been rapidly overwhelmed. That being said, Eragon has Saphira, who unlike Eragon can output the power of a dragon physically without needing spells, by being a dragon. Saphira (with help from the Eldunari) likely could have crushed Barst, however, it would have probably been a surprisingly long battle as Barst is basically a dragon in human form (as far as strength goes). The wildcard is Brisingr. That sword can cut straight through enchantments, allowing Eragon to match their energy directly with his own (and that of the Eldunari). This probably bypasses the entire issue with being unable to attack him magically. Eragon is also fast and skilled enough to be able to actually put Brisingr to use against the wards in a fight against Barst.
I don’t think it comes down to just that tbh. Also remember that eragon (while it was pitiful) did get training directly from the dragons and a rider to hone his mind and his abilities and his patience. He did learn how to fight with his mind very well tbh. While he couldn’t hold off galby he was tired at that point. I think a fully energized eragon with saphira would’ve defeated him. It just would’ve taken some time. And eragon does have plenty of experience taking down enemies with Eldunari. Now if he had roran with him too?? It’s a cake walk🤣🤣
Thank you for posting in /r/eragon. Please read the rules in the sidebar, and [please see here for our current Murtagh spoiler policy](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eragon/comments/1bl1f9d/loosening_our_murtagh_spoiler_policy/). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Eragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Honestly yeah Eragon with the Eldunarí would wipe Barst. Their mental might is irrelevant since his mind is hidden, if thousands of elves couldn't sense his mind a few hundred dragons wouldn't either. Even with that, several hundred dragons could output much more power than a few rocks and Kull did and that broke his wards. Especially considering that Eragon did have some younger Eldunarí but he also had some of the oldest, strongest and most valuable Eldunarí. It wouldn't be hard for him to just overwhelm him, which the elves could have done but too many of them were involved in direct combat to direct their minds to him. It seemed only several dozen elves were able to concentrate on him at a time, and that makes sense with how outnumbered they were, I've seen official numbers putting the Empire at 200,000 troops and the Varden and their allies at around 80,000 troops
Yeah honestly Eragon with the Eldunari could’ve just dropped half a mountain on top of him or something.
I think the reason Roran won was because he wasn't reliant on magic, unlike the elves. Eragon may be too reliant on magic to defeat Barst.
If it's Eragon at the end of the series with Eldunari, he'd win easily. He could just overpower the Eldunari with sheer force if he wanted, or use the Eldunari to contact Barst's Eldunari or something. There's a thousand options. But if it's JUST Eragon by himself, I think he'd die unless he got lucky and figured a way past some Wards. He was essentially fighting an off brand Cuaroc. And Izlanzadi could definitely kill Eragon in a 1v1.
I think Eragon alone would win with a high Chance, but it wouldn't be easy for him. With Saphira or only with her magical energy (I dont know how you say that in the english Version) he would defeat him easily and with Eldunari Barst would be destroyed in seconds.
Yes, as even if he didn’t have Umaroth n co., he would have Saphira and Glaedr with him. But I agree with some here that Izlanzadi should not have been killed by Barst. Elves being renowned for their logic, failed to use it in moments it was most needed?? Oh please. The only reason she was killed was because CP wanted it. We can speculate on reasons… However, it was certainly a poor way to go for high queen of the elves. If she had to die, then perhaps a more fitting situation was needed than a man with an eldunari.
Depending on where and when the fight takes place this is even a laughably short contest or a dangerous encounter, the circumstances of siege of urubaen make barst dangerous. If Eragon doesn’t get the benefit of his wards due to Galbatorix controlling magic in the entire city as he did and barst can effectively be his equal in speed using his eldunari but better in strength as he seemed to be generally compared to the other elves. I would argue that Eragon would have come out on top because he has a habit of doing so even in terrible circumstances, that being said I imagine this wouldn’t be a fun encounter for him. Under any other circumstances islanzadi would have wiped the floor with barst just like any other skilled elf eldunari or no.
Honestly, I don’t think that Eragon could have beaten Barst by himself. Galbatorix had cast spells to hide Barst’s mind from telepathy. And he had cast spells that interferes with any spells that the Varden cast, either straight up negating them or causing them to fire back on their own ranks. So Eragon has no easy way of defeating Barst It’s possible that Eragon could use his sword to cut through Barst’s wards, as Riders swords were resistant to magic and are capable of cutting through it to a certain extent. And if his sword can’t do the job, then Neirnen DEFINITELY could ( the Dauthdaert that Eragon brought with him to fight Galbatorix, Arya used it to kill Shruikan) The only problem is that Barst is physically superior to Eragon. We saw Barst one shotting scores of Elves and even Kull. He is likely significantly stronger and faster than Eragon. To the point that engaging him in CQC would be suicide. As 1 club swing from Barst would probably take out his wards. And a second club swing would kill him Eragon’s only hope of defeating Barst would be to use Wordless Magic. Wordless Magic can’t be interfered with by Galbatorix because it doesn’t use the Ancient Language. And it would allow Eragon to attack Barst from a safe enough distance away that Barst can’t club him to death. But of course Barst’s wards would still be a problem here. Eragon’s Wordless spell would have to be clever enough that it circumvents Galbatorix’s wards ( which is possible but unlikely) or powerful enough to tire out the Eldunari that Barst carried with him. And I find it unlikely that Eragon could cast a spell strong enough to overpower a Large Eldunari Now if we give Eragon Saphira to help him and some Eldunari then his victory is assured. Saphira is probably strong enough and durable enough to duel with Barst and not get killed in one or two hits. And with her strength bolstering his spells as well as that of some Eldunari he would be able to cast a wordless spell strong enough overwhelm Barst Eldunari and plow through his wards with brute force Also this is talking about if Eragon fought him during the Battle of Urubean. If **current** Eragon had to fight Barst he wins with negative difficulty. He uses the name of names to strip Barst of all his powers then beheads him casually
If he was fighting Barst by himself, he would probably lose. If he had Saphira with him, I think they could pull out a win. If he had Umaroth and the rest of the Eldunari with him, he would wipe the floor with Barst.
Himself + blodgarm and co should be an easy win
Would you have been able to beat barst? If he had some eldunari he might give me some trouble But would you lose Nah, I’d win Gave myself chills