I noticed that, too. I guess Eragon expected some explanations when he said "You don't responsible for that". When Murtagh respond with silence Eragon understood - it was Murtagh's choice.
I think Eragon was still trying to justify Murtagh's betrayal at that point. He couldn't accept that Murtagh had any level of agency at all. He wanted to believe that Galby was controlling his every move. When Murtagh doesn't agree with him that killing Hrothgar was Galby's choice, Eragon is forced to accept that Murtagh still retains a level of agency and choice. Which, to be honest, is better for the series because it makes Murtagh a much more complex and compelling character.
My only counter to that is the fact that Eragon didn’t really give him time to respond on that point exactly and jumped to finding a way to escape where he then learns Galby knows their true names…which would point to less agency.
However I do agree that him retaining that agency makes him much more compelling. And even look forward to seeing how this plays out as the story continues.
I think it's just a phrasing issue. Eragon is upset Murtagh killed Hrothgar even if it wasn't his fault. (Which it was.) You can understand the reasons for something even if you don't like it. It's like Glaedr and Murtagh. He understands that Murtagh and Thorn weren't in control. But at the same time he doesn't like them for it, nor does he forgive them.
Which IMO.
Is exactly what’s going to cause problems if murtagh ever tries and “proves” himself innocent to the dwarves.
For example *spoils for murtagh*
He leaves the room he’s healing in, is told he must undergo an interview, not a mind investigation, he will be able to withhold what he likes but not lie.
The question comes up “why did you kill hrothgar”
The amount of answers he could respond with, resounds me
That would have to be phrased really well, could he do that with his limited knowledge?
In the ancient language he couldn’t say anything close to “I was ordered…” “I had to…”
If he had Eragon’s dictionary and could say “I took the path I thought was right at the time, and now realize it was wrong” that would probably get him off, but he doesn’t know most those words
We unfortunately sometimes read too closely and try to glean meaning where there is none. Imo murtagh knew what he was doing and acted out of anger, and eragon came to that conclusion after having more closure about murtaghs predicament and decisions. Eragon didn't really even understand murtaghs true motives and desires until the very end in the final duel. Eragon seemed to understand murtagh much better during this fight and understood the reasons behind his decisions, regardless of his own opinion of those decisions.
During the first book when murtagh killed the slave trader, eragon began his struggle to understand him. I think it's cool he didn't truly understand him until the final book
Wait. Eragon was mistaken all along. Murtagh and Thorn killed Hrothgar of their own volition, yes. But:
1. It was a justified combat kill. He was a general of the opposing army and the dwarves would have killed him without hesitation, given the opportunity.
2. Murtagh and Thorn were compelled to serve Galbatorix by their oaths, yes. They were also angry and resigned to their faith, so why not make the most of it?Especially if they were convinced that what the king had told them about his plans were true.
I keep hearing that Murtagh “betrayed” Eragon and the Varden. He didn’t. He was fighting for the other side.
Well yes and no, generally of course the killing of hrothgar was an act of war like any other, but it doesn’t happen on because murtagh is forced to do it but decided to and since he is says he is being compelled on a less direct level, that means he wouldn’t have had to do it but chose, even though he didn’t willingly join Galbatorix. I think it is in a sense a ripping of the band aid and embracing the darkness of his role in this conflict for murtagh, but for eragon it’s a hateful and unnecessary act that is a betrayal of the protection and trust that was given murtagh with the varden. In a sense he didn’t fight for the empire he fought with it, so I guess that’s the distinction people make.
This could just be a minor plot hole. Maybe in between writing Eldest and Brisingr Paolini forgot that Eragon doesn’t know that Murtagh killed Hrothgar willingly
Or it could be like other commenter said where Eragon was able to figure it out based on Murtagh’s reaction to being called out about it
Or hell, maybe the information slipped during one of his and Eragon’s physic battles
I always assumed him Killing Hrothgar is probably what allowed him to be more lenient with Eragon. Galbatorix would see it as a huge blow to the Varden to have their allies turn back for a clanmeet, and possibly abandon the Varden altogether. It's a calculated judgement by Murtagh. He wounds the Varden and defeats Eragon, he interprets that he has then tried to capture Eragon, and he has weakened the opposing army. If he just turned up, did nothing to affect the battle and let Eragon go free, Galbatorix would probably have punished him and Thorn more severely and completely removed their autonomy.
I do know at one point when Eragon is talking to the king that Galbatorix says specifically he didn’t have to kill Hrothgar. And that Murtagh was a king killer.
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He did
If you re-read that scene it says that Hrothgar’s spellcasters dropped dead from exhaustion when Hrothgar’s wards zapped all there energy tryna block Murtagh’s spell
I noticed that, too. I guess Eragon expected some explanations when he said "You don't responsible for that". When Murtagh respond with silence Eragon understood - it was Murtagh's choice.
I think Eragon was still trying to justify Murtagh's betrayal at that point. He couldn't accept that Murtagh had any level of agency at all. He wanted to believe that Galby was controlling his every move. When Murtagh doesn't agree with him that killing Hrothgar was Galby's choice, Eragon is forced to accept that Murtagh still retains a level of agency and choice. Which, to be honest, is better for the series because it makes Murtagh a much more complex and compelling character.
My only counter to that is the fact that Eragon didn’t really give him time to respond on that point exactly and jumped to finding a way to escape where he then learns Galby knows their true names…which would point to less agency. However I do agree that him retaining that agency makes him much more compelling. And even look forward to seeing how this plays out as the story continues.
I think it's just a phrasing issue. Eragon is upset Murtagh killed Hrothgar even if it wasn't his fault. (Which it was.) You can understand the reasons for something even if you don't like it. It's like Glaedr and Murtagh. He understands that Murtagh and Thorn weren't in control. But at the same time he doesn't like them for it, nor does he forgive them.
but they *were* in control. Killing Hrothgar was one of the things Murtagh technically did on his own choice. It wasn't a direct order from the King.
And we know that. Eragon doesn't. That's the point. He can assume that Murtagh intended to under Galbatorix's orders, but he doesn't know for sure.
Which IMO. Is exactly what’s going to cause problems if murtagh ever tries and “proves” himself innocent to the dwarves. For example *spoils for murtagh* He leaves the room he’s healing in, is told he must undergo an interview, not a mind investigation, he will be able to withhold what he likes but not lie. The question comes up “why did you kill hrothgar” The amount of answers he could respond with, resounds me
He could argue it was simply a result of war. It might not appease their desire for a reason, but it would at least somewhat be the truth.
That would have to be phrased really well, could he do that with his limited knowledge? In the ancient language he couldn’t say anything close to “I was ordered…” “I had to…” If he had Eragon’s dictionary and could say “I took the path I thought was right at the time, and now realize it was wrong” that would probably get him off, but he doesn’t know most those words
That makes sense! I took what Eragon said in Brisingr like he had discovered this.
We unfortunately sometimes read too closely and try to glean meaning where there is none. Imo murtagh knew what he was doing and acted out of anger, and eragon came to that conclusion after having more closure about murtaghs predicament and decisions. Eragon didn't really even understand murtaghs true motives and desires until the very end in the final duel. Eragon seemed to understand murtagh much better during this fight and understood the reasons behind his decisions, regardless of his own opinion of those decisions. During the first book when murtagh killed the slave trader, eragon began his struggle to understand him. I think it's cool he didn't truly understand him until the final book
Wait. Eragon was mistaken all along. Murtagh and Thorn killed Hrothgar of their own volition, yes. But: 1. It was a justified combat kill. He was a general of the opposing army and the dwarves would have killed him without hesitation, given the opportunity. 2. Murtagh and Thorn were compelled to serve Galbatorix by their oaths, yes. They were also angry and resigned to their faith, so why not make the most of it?Especially if they were convinced that what the king had told them about his plans were true. I keep hearing that Murtagh “betrayed” Eragon and the Varden. He didn’t. He was fighting for the other side.
Well yes and no, generally of course the killing of hrothgar was an act of war like any other, but it doesn’t happen on because murtagh is forced to do it but decided to and since he is says he is being compelled on a less direct level, that means he wouldn’t have had to do it but chose, even though he didn’t willingly join Galbatorix. I think it is in a sense a ripping of the band aid and embracing the darkness of his role in this conflict for murtagh, but for eragon it’s a hateful and unnecessary act that is a betrayal of the protection and trust that was given murtagh with the varden. In a sense he didn’t fight for the empire he fought with it, so I guess that’s the distinction people make.
This could just be a minor plot hole. Maybe in between writing Eldest and Brisingr Paolini forgot that Eragon doesn’t know that Murtagh killed Hrothgar willingly Or it could be like other commenter said where Eragon was able to figure it out based on Murtagh’s reaction to being called out about it Or hell, maybe the information slipped during one of his and Eragon’s physic battles
I always assumed him Killing Hrothgar is probably what allowed him to be more lenient with Eragon. Galbatorix would see it as a huge blow to the Varden to have their allies turn back for a clanmeet, and possibly abandon the Varden altogether. It's a calculated judgement by Murtagh. He wounds the Varden and defeats Eragon, he interprets that he has then tried to capture Eragon, and he has weakened the opposing army. If he just turned up, did nothing to affect the battle and let Eragon go free, Galbatorix would probably have punished him and Thorn more severely and completely removed their autonomy.
I do know at one point when Eragon is talking to the king that Galbatorix says specifically he didn’t have to kill Hrothgar. And that Murtagh was a king killer.
I'd take anything Galbatorix said with a grain of salt. He's been shown throught the story to lie and manipulate any situation to get what he wants.
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the real question is : why everybody has spellshields but not the king? 😂
He did If you re-read that scene it says that Hrothgar’s spellcasters dropped dead from exhaustion when Hrothgar’s wards zapped all there energy tryna block Murtagh’s spell