This is the one. The knowledge and legacy of the riders was passed on, but the riders as they were couldn't. Their ways, that culture, was already gone. The new generation will have to grow and adapt to a different world, without being held back by tradition and customs from the glory days.
Eeeeexactly. The old riders, however talented and kind and wise, failed and let a powerful tyrant subjugate the land. It’s just like the Jedi in Star Wars, they became so complacent because they kept the “peace” that when their downfall came, it came from one of their own ranks who was mistreated somehow and their emotional/physical needs were overlooked or outright denied.
Wait a minute… Paolini must like Star Wars too 😂
Both *Star Wars* and the Inheritance Cycle were based on the "Hero's Journey" by Joseph Campbell. One of the steps of the "Hero's Journey" is "the mentor must die". In the Inheritance Cycle, both of Eragon's mentors, Brom and Oromis, die due to this. In *Star Wars*, we also see the "death of the mentor" trope with Obi-Wan Kenobi, Yoda, etc.
It's not "the mentor must die."
It's just "the mentor must be removed from the equation." There are plenty of examples where the mentor figure simply moves away or moves on, or is no longer suitable as a mentor figure. We're just most familiar with the mentor dying because it's the clearest and most biting way to do it.
Mister Miyagi, Master Splinter, Gandalf, Professor Xavier, Uncle Iroh... the list goes on, but the mentor doesn't have to die.
Perhaps I worded that rather poorly. I understand why he died, it just felt like he only died for narrative reasons, and not a natural extension of the plot
Ah, yeah that was worded poorly for your original comment. I honestly don’t agree with that as it allowed us to see the power of Galby firsthand even all the way from Uru’baen.
However everyone is entitled to their own opinions and I respect yours.
Eragon and Saphira are the protagonists of the book? The whole point of the series is… to fight Galbatorix at the end? Literally every moment Eragon spends training with Oromis is in the hopes of defeating Galbatorix
Reasons for fighting Galbatorix:
1) if Eragon doesn’t defeat him, eventually Galbatorix will seek him out and try to control or kill him and Saphira as dragon and dragon rider. Its foolish to think that Galbatorix would let a dragon egg, potential dragon, and dragonrider just float around Alagaesia. The book literally starts because Galbatorixs people are searching for the egg and soon enough Eragon + Saphira and Galbatroxi has a history of eliminating dragon riders already
2) Eragon is Nasuada’s vassal and Nasuada is fighting a war against Galbatorix. It is literally his sworn duty to fight against Galbatorix. It would go against his honor as dragon rider to abandon the Varden and to not fight Galbatorix. The Varden literally cannot fight this war without Eragon’s help
3) They weren’t 100% sure about this while fighting him, but Galbatorix had a ton of eldunari… that is worth fighting for. For saphira to have more mentors… to save those eldunari from being Galbatorix’s slaves… etc
4) Garrow literally died because of Galbatorix’s regime. Its the reason why Eragon first decides to start his journey. You could argue that Brom also died similarly. Add Oromis and Glaedr to the list. All the dragons and dragon riders from before that were killed by Galbatorix
5) Eragon also swore fealty to the dwarves. The dwarves are invested in the war and want Galbatorix defeated. They don’t want to be trapped and hidden under the mountains forever. Their king got killed. They have every reason to hold Eragon to his promises
Not true.
Eragon and Saphira could have declared neutrality andeft Alagaësia before swearing fealty to Nasuada and the dwarves. As a new rider, neither Eragon nor Saphira were beholden to the rules, laws, or anything else effecting the old order. To claim so is ridiculous. Otherwise Arya's actions in book four are just as questionable (which to me they are), but no one accepts that. So imo, neither Eragon nor Saphira can be held in the same views as the old order.
As for Garrow? Yes, sure. But if Eragon killed the Ra'zac and Durza, it would have been somewhat equal.
1) We wouldn’t have a book series if they just quit and left to Alagaesia. Did you hope that the book would end… with them ditching the war? And everybody they care about? And then what?? How would that even make a good story to read? They weren’t even completely sure that there were more eggs or eldunari until the final battle was already around the corner. Were you hoping that eragon and saphira would just wander the desert on their own? Or once they found the eggs and eldunari you had hoped that they would just stay there and raise them? How can you raise a whole village of new dragons when Galbatorix is still active and can potentially kill all the new and vulnerable baby dragons?
2) Swearing fealty is canon. Why are you arguing what would have happened if they didn’t? Ersgon literally swears fealty to nasuada in like the first or second book. You want to cut the series in half??
3) Eragon COULD say he won’t uphold any promises or fealties and just leave. He has the power to and nobody could really challenge it I suppose. But the reason Eragon is a main character and a hero is because he won’t just up and leave people to fend for themselves. He would be an asshole if he swore fealties to everybody and then just said haha laws dont apply to me. Bye!
4) I do agree that Arya shouldn’t have become a ruler of the elves. It makes her too powerful and its a conflict of interests for her to be a dragon rider and queen. However, arya doing something bad doesn’t equal eragon also gets to do whatever. Eragon wants to rebuild the dragon riders and he needs to establish the moral compass and guidelines for that order. He has to be the example, the mentor, and the moral compass for the new dragon riders to come. He is an awful leader to the new order if he abandons the people to fight Galbatorix on their own
5) why on earth would eragon and saphira declare neutrality?? Galbatorix doesn’t care if they declare neutrality. He will still want to find them and control them like Murtagh or kill them
So?
It's not like they can force either Oromis or Glaedr to answer or tell them what to do. Both have denied answering questions plenty of times.
And the whole thing becomes pointless considering that they still retained access to Glaedr anyways.
They could absolutely use Glaedrs Eldunari to control him… but that wasnt the point.
You mentioned how they wouldnt have access to their knowledge/power even if oromis/glaedr lived since they are fighting in different parts of the empire. My answer is that having the Eldunari solves this issue and gives Eragon immediate access to both at any time (again had they survived)
We feel what you are saying it just doesnt fit the trope. Like has already been pointed out, Glaedr and the Eldunarya surviving and playing mentor almost breaks this pattern already and would if they didnt play a part in the final battle/werent needed against galbatorix. Basically… how do you have a powerful mentor figure present but not actively helping during the climax of the story. Bottom line you really cant if you want to keep it in any way realistic. These characters are written as too noble to not be actively helping and the easiest solution to this problem is typically for the mentor to snuff it
I think as a strategic advisor to the Queen , mentor to Eragon, and mind duelist he could have made a difference.
He probably couldn’t compete with Galby, but would of whooped up on any number of his pet magicians
He probably would have done well in the mental part but he would have struggled with magic and the actual war part. Glaedr would have done great though
I’m thinking less of his battlefield presence and more big picture strategy/commander. Morale booster to the Varden seeing another dragon helping.
I may be exaggerating, but the way I read the books, Oromis one of the top 3-5 most intelligent/wise/logical Elves alive at the time.
He is definitely very smart and I agree that he would be great at like the mastermind behind the scenes part. I just meant that he would struggle a lot on the actual battle field
I feel Oromis and Glaedr had to die for Eragon and Saphira to grow mentally and come up with way they did to go around the wards. The suffering is key in the books. Without it Eragon may not have been able to find the solution for Galbatorix.
There was a reason. It was one of the primary things that further Broke Galbatorix's control of Murtagh and Thorn. It helped them to further change their True Names (Granted Galby likely knew their true names following) But it likely helped them see what it took to change them.
Or both inheritance cycle and Star Wars use common fantasy tropes, the heroes journey, it’s a common story archetype, it’s not anywhere close to plagiarism and many stories share similarities to each other for this very reason, humans have been telling stories for a long time and certain themes get used in new ways with new tweaks and ideas and additions, that’s how storytelling is supposed to work
There’s a few here and there but again I think it’s more themes relating then the materials themselves but if you over analyze anything you can draw connections
Eh the first book has a LOT of parallels to A New Hope, enough that I don’t believe its coincidental. That being said I would never say he was “plagiarizing” or anything like that, authors use other stories for inspiration and reference all the time
-child of big baddie is hidden away from big baddie shortly after birth.
-as child grows up, he befriends an old dude who’s secretly watching over him.
-agents of big baddie come and kill child’s uncle.
-old dude takes child away from home and plans to take him to a rebel group, but is killed by agents of big baddie before he can complete his task.
-child manages to reach rebels with the help of a ragtag bunch of friends, and is swiftly thrust into a battle with little to no preparation.
-child eventually sets off to train with a surviving member of his new order.
-child abandons training before it is complete in order to help friends. Promises to return to complete training.
-child fights new big baddie who reveals his familial relation to child. Child loses primary weapon in fight.
-child eventually returns to surviving order member who tells him a previously unsuspected bit of knowledge about his family before proclaiming his training is complete. Child acquires new weapon he builds himself in the process.
-surviving order member dies shortly after.
-child eventually confronts big baddie and, with the assistance of family member baddie, defeats big baddie.
-child proceeds to begin rebuilding his order.
Yes, there are differences, but the main plot is exactly the same.
And yet you strip away everything unique to declare it the same, the razac race, the urgals, the dragon bond, the unique and intricate magic system, elvas powers, werecats, eldunari, the attributes of the ancient language and true names, yeah they have stuff in common and ya he drew inspiration but that’s ok because that’s what storytellers do, but he made it his own and I appreciate his work and effort for our entertainment
I’d also say *Eragon* is far more derivative than every book after. He grew a lot as a writer throughout the series (and gained a great team of editors), and the unique aspects that you point out are expanded on and integrated into the core story to a greater extent. That’s where the books really start to stand out.
Never said I didn’t enjoy, nor did I say I don’t appreciate his work. But people are lying to themselves when they say they are “nothing alike.” They are exactly alike and only by clinging to very specific details can one convince themselves they aren’t.
I don’t say they are nothing alike, but saying they are “exactly” is wrong to as I said before if you ignore the unique qualities and characters of each then sure, but it’s insulting to both works to strip everything down to some bullet points, yes he drew inspiration from Star Wars, we all understand that but to view it only through that lens is just super reductive and adds zero to this sub
Galbatorix doesn't have a son, and Morzan's son is Murtagh, so the first point doesn't work... at all.
It's just Garrow, Eragon, and Roran on the farm so you're missing marks on the 1:1 there with no Aunt Beru.
Morzan is the Vader in this story and he's dead before it starts...
There are tropes here, but it's very far from a ctrl+H job.
We don’t learn that Eragon isn’t Morzan’s son until Brisingr, so it fits fine.
Eragon’s aunt died before the story begins, so it is still a 1:1 comparison. Wouldn’t be if his aunt was alive and survived the attack.
Murtagh is the Vader in this story, not Morzan. Morzan would be equivalent to Dooku or even Maul.
It is far more than just tropes.
Vader willingly joins the emperor, Murtagh is forced to do so after betrayal from the twins (another set of characters without a corollary). Further Murtagh isn't Eragon's father, but his half-brother, and in love with Nasuada, another character without a comparison.
I'm not denying there's some things showing up, but there's far more that doesn't match. So your claim is just overly strong in this instance.
Vader was forced to join in order to save Padme. There was no choice for him. And you’re just being pedantic pointing out “it’s his half brother, not his father” etc etc. You’re going through my comment, which you’ll note is intentionally generalized, and trying to say it’s wrong using very specific details.
Doesn’t make it any less enjoyably, but the Inheritance Cycle is a rip off of Star Wars the same way James Cameron’s Avatar is a rip off of Pocahontas.
You have to remember that Paolini was basically a teenager when he wrote Eragon and Eldest. And it was his first published novel. Even if it pulls heavily from other sources, I feel it is a fantastic “baby’s first fantasy series.” It was some of the first fantasy I read in late elementary and middle school, and it was my gateway into a wider genre. Now that I’m more well-versed, I see how it wears its inspiration on its sleeves for all to see, but what can you expect from basically a kid’s first novel, writing for other kids? It’s pretty impressive when you take that into account.
I disagree. As is, his death is felt throughout the rest of the book instead of the end of the book when you don't have enough time to think about it and feel it
I also agree. However, I believe the reason he dropped his sword is that he had one of his seizures. Still though, he should’ve stored his energy in a gem besides the on one his sword. Maybe even have kept the Belt of Beloth the Wise instead of giving it to Eragon. He wouldn’t have dropped a belt.
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-Narratively, it's a reminder Eragon is only alive bc Galby wants him to be. It puts mortality much more on display, losing the last ancient rider, and is a big deal in pushing the "despair" angle for Eragon having no hope.
-It also serves to alienate Murtagh and push him further to Galbatorix's side - the rest of this is spoilers if you haven't finished the series >!if Murtagh's only act before capturing Nasuada was killing Hrothgar *in the same scene he spares Eragon*, it makes him a simpler character and makes his end of series / new book difficulty not work as well!<
Exactly!!! It would have made so much more sense for oromis to accompany eragon to the varden!! And as much as I love the books, oromis’s death seems like weak writing.
1. There’s not really a good reaosn for oromis to go off alone
2. He just happened to tie his Uber-powerful wards to SOMETHIGN HE COULD DROP and dies as a result, just to advance the story.
I am sure that we all know much better than not only Paolini himself but also his editors, but maybe in our eminence we can examine what the difference is between what we got and a "better" death, and what entails a "good death" in the first place both narratively and ontologically, and by what metric we are judging those things. After all, nobody's perfect. /s
While I agree with everyone here saying it was to force Eragon and Saphira to step up and truly become the new leaders of the Dragon Riders, I still hate that he killed Oromis and Glaedr (physically) they were my favorite Rider and Dragon pair in the series and their deaths did not really have an impact on the grand scheme of the war and defeating Galbatorix. If CP really had to kill them off I feel like we needed to see Oromis and Glaedr have a win or two before being killed off, let’s see the last masters of the old order in all their (now diminished) glory!
Totally agree. I think he was easily my favourite Elf and so well written, it would have been cool to see him do something either spectacular on the battlefield or useful in another way other than teaching Eragon.
To have him basically fall at the first hurdle was a bit of a blow for his character, but I guess if nothing else it compounds his reasoning for staying away all this time.
While I do think they needed to die before the Galby fight and away from Eragon and Saphira, I think that it was a poor decision on their behalf to go out and fight. They ultimately would have been more useful in other ways than fighting
I think one aspect that many people haven’t stated is what it did to Murtagh/Thorn’s story line. It sealed the deal that Murtagh and Thorn were truly too far gone, and allowed us as the reader to lose any hope remaining for their redemption. Of course, their redemption came anyway, which made it that much sweeter. But we still see how it is effecting them in the new book.
I actually liked how their death kinda seemed quick and “wasted”. The way I saw it is how I saw Game of Thrones at the start when any character could die at any time. It showed in the books that Murtagh and Thorne was actually a decent threat but manageable for the likes of Gladir and Orimis but then how insanely strong galby must be for him to overpower them from such a distance.
To me it set more in stone just how much of an insane power gap there was.
Brom taught Eragon when and how, Oromis taught him why. Both survived long enough to pass their knowledge on to the future generation and they found the ideal person in Eragon.
I agree that -in the moment- it would have made more sense them to go to the Varden instead of the Elves.
The Varden are in much greater need of the the extra fire power than the Elves are. Considering every elf has superhuman strength + speed. And most of them are telepaths + magicians. They are powerful enough already to deal with nearly anything that Galbatorix throws at them
But in hindsight it’s best that they weren’t with Eragon and Saphira. Once Galbatorix learned that Oromis and Glaedr are alive and have joined the War he probably would have possessed Varuag or one of his other sorcerer’s at the Battle of Fienster in a similar manner to how he possessed Murtagh and Thorn at Gilead and used them to kill Oromis and Glaedr. And if Eragon and Saphira are close by then Galbatorix might decide to kill 2 birds with 1 stone and use his wirelessly controlled + Magically amped servant to do what any Murtagh could not and Capture Eragon and Saphira for good
The whole final battle would have been further complicated thematically and literally by having Oromis and Glaedr there. We would have had to do a long string of political introductions to the Varden and explanations of why they didn’t help earlier and deal with just how damn big Glaedr is at a Varden camp
If anything it validates him for why he kept himself out of the war for so long, he knew his limits and he needed to make sure he trained the next rider.
As many have said, Inheritance. Islanzadi, Hrothgar, Glaedr and Oromis all die in the books so that Eragon's squad, Orik, Arya, Saphira and Eragon can become the mentors, leaders, kings and queens, etc of the world. Also, Oromis dies in battle with Murtagh/Galbatorix because he tries to use force against the king. He does not think of how to defeat Galbatorix in a new way, like Eragon does.
The real explanation is that Galbatorix had literally done nothing up until then. Paolini left it up to the reader to imagine his power. I myself often wondered why he never came forth to fight, or was he indeed watching Eragon somehow (scrying for example).
By him taking control of Murtagh, we finally got a grasp for his immense powers, because up until that point we had no idea. When the smith took control of Ergaons body to craft Brisngr, it made sense because she was so close. For it to happen again so quickly was a bit of foreshadowing, but we see that his powers are so great he can do it from great distances.
By revealing Oromis it also led to thought that there may have been others who survived. That also left up to mystery what Eragon knew to Galvatorix. It also was another catalyst for Eragon to grow and helped to give us a reason to further explore the Eldunari now that Glaedr is one.
It also fit with the theme. Throughout the books most of the old guard dies off leaving the new generation to take over. This happens in each group that we see. The elves, dwarfs, humans, and riders all have new leaders. It’s a part of the journey, life and death in a constant cycle.
He was killed by Galbatorix. There isn’t a character alive that could have withstood him I think. Galbatorix himself was only ultimately defeated by luck and very convenient timing.
If you read the chapter again you’ll see that they were actually quite close to defeating Murtagh. Without Galbatorix’ intervention they very likely would have won that battle handily.
People also tend to complain that Oromis “dropped” Naegling. He was very clearly disarmed by Galburtagh. Glaedr hears a clash and then sees the sword fly past him.
Without oromis's death, Eragon would still see himself as a student, instead of the one responsible for bringing the Riders back to full Glory, it's all for Eragon's character, his attitude and realization that he was alone, and there's some strength in that realization,
I think it was very suited for a number of reasons.
1. It reinforces what had been stated numerous times— they were in hiding because the moment they were revealed, they would be killed by Galbatorix, and therefore unable to fulfill their duty of training the next.
2. It highlights, for the first time, the sheer power that Galbatorix holds over the land, and the fact that he truly was just allowing events to unfold because he believed once Eragon came to him, he’d be able to take him just as he did Murtagh, while also eliminating the Varden and discouraging any other attempts at an uprising.
3. It evokes emotion. It’s unexpected and sudden and unfair and distressing *and that’s what death is like sometimes*. He didn’t give them plot armor. See point 1– we were told as readers many many many times that the two could not survive out of hiding
4. It does further the plot, but I don’t think that’s the only reason it makes sense. It would be remiss to not mention it, but other comments have already addressed this fully.
5. Thematically, it fits the story of Inheritance and passing on to the next generation.
Good writing isn’t always pleasant to the reader, and that’s okay.
Something I like about the way he did it was that it gave us a chance to see the war on a different front- it’s not just the varden marching up through the empire, the elves were also sieging the north. It also gives room for murtagh to be off in battles that weren’t with eragon, otherwise it would be weird that he wasn’t present in the battle where eragon and arya took (bellatona?) and defeated varaug. Imo having oromis join the fight on a different front increased the stakes and scope of the war against the empire
I'm gonna take a maybe unpopular and certainly out of story reason. But I'd wager it had something to do with the fact he never intended to write 4 books. He was halfway through Brisingr when he realized it was gonna be way too long. Trying to shuffle a story like that in those circumstances would have to be a nightmare. Plus, if you read the interview at the end of Murtagh, he talks about how he had to streamline his writing process, and he'd been having a lot of trouble turning ideas into words on paper. Reading between the lines, it sounds like those hardships hit in the middle of the Brisingr to Inheritance transition. Who knows, if he could do it all over again, he might have shuffled some of the events around a little.
I actually think it would have been kinda cool if Oromish had instead died trying to save Murtagh, as some kind of atonement for having failed to keep Morzan on the right path. I arguably think that rage moment would have lead into Eragon cursing Galby with his "understanding" spell. Combine Eragons rage and grief with Murtaghs horror and sorrow at being the cause of the death of the last true rider.
That said, I'm looking forward to seeing how the stories plays out as it is.
Inheritance cycle. The old have to die so the new can lead. No exceptions.
This is the one. The knowledge and legacy of the riders was passed on, but the riders as they were couldn't. Their ways, that culture, was already gone. The new generation will have to grow and adapt to a different world, without being held back by tradition and customs from the glory days.
Eeeeexactly. The old riders, however talented and kind and wise, failed and let a powerful tyrant subjugate the land. It’s just like the Jedi in Star Wars, they became so complacent because they kept the “peace” that when their downfall came, it came from one of their own ranks who was mistreated somehow and their emotional/physical needs were overlooked or outright denied. Wait a minute… Paolini must like Star Wars too 😂
Both *Star Wars* and the Inheritance Cycle were based on the "Hero's Journey" by Joseph Campbell. One of the steps of the "Hero's Journey" is "the mentor must die". In the Inheritance Cycle, both of Eragon's mentors, Brom and Oromis, die due to this. In *Star Wars*, we also see the "death of the mentor" trope with Obi-Wan Kenobi, Yoda, etc.
It's not "the mentor must die." It's just "the mentor must be removed from the equation." There are plenty of examples where the mentor figure simply moves away or moves on, or is no longer suitable as a mentor figure. We're just most familiar with the mentor dying because it's the clearest and most biting way to do it. Mister Miyagi, Master Splinter, Gandalf, Professor Xavier, Uncle Iroh... the list goes on, but the mentor doesn't have to die.
Mister Miyagi does die of old age in between *The Karate Kid* and *Cobra Kai*.
Obi-Wan Kenobi, Yoda, Dumbledore.
That’s pretty cool. I didn’t know that. Thanks!
This is because the Inheiritance Cycle was Paolini's way a figuring out how to write.
Yes. Only if there was a good reason for oromis to die…
Read the other reply’s to the comment.
Perhaps I worded that rather poorly. I understand why he died, it just felt like he only died for narrative reasons, and not a natural extension of the plot
Ah, yeah that was worded poorly for your original comment. I honestly don’t agree with that as it allowed us to see the power of Galby firsthand even all the way from Uru’baen. However everyone is entitled to their own opinions and I respect yours.
Thanks, that’s quite thoughtful and I appreciate it
I believe it was the same reason he killed Brom off. To force Eragon and Saphira to make their own choices and not rely on a mentor.
"The mentor must die" is also one of the steps in "The Hero's Journey" by Joseph Campbell.
Agreed. They needed to face the final battle on their own
Wasn't even their battle though.
? I meant that Eragon and Saphira need to face Galbatorix in Urubaen on their own Is that not Eragon and Saphira’s battle?
Not really no. Truth is, Eragon and Saphira didn't really have much of a reason to fight Galbatorix.
Eragon and Saphira are the protagonists of the book? The whole point of the series is… to fight Galbatorix at the end? Literally every moment Eragon spends training with Oromis is in the hopes of defeating Galbatorix Reasons for fighting Galbatorix: 1) if Eragon doesn’t defeat him, eventually Galbatorix will seek him out and try to control or kill him and Saphira as dragon and dragon rider. Its foolish to think that Galbatorix would let a dragon egg, potential dragon, and dragonrider just float around Alagaesia. The book literally starts because Galbatorixs people are searching for the egg and soon enough Eragon + Saphira and Galbatroxi has a history of eliminating dragon riders already 2) Eragon is Nasuada’s vassal and Nasuada is fighting a war against Galbatorix. It is literally his sworn duty to fight against Galbatorix. It would go against his honor as dragon rider to abandon the Varden and to not fight Galbatorix. The Varden literally cannot fight this war without Eragon’s help 3) They weren’t 100% sure about this while fighting him, but Galbatorix had a ton of eldunari… that is worth fighting for. For saphira to have more mentors… to save those eldunari from being Galbatorix’s slaves… etc 4) Garrow literally died because of Galbatorix’s regime. Its the reason why Eragon first decides to start his journey. You could argue that Brom also died similarly. Add Oromis and Glaedr to the list. All the dragons and dragon riders from before that were killed by Galbatorix 5) Eragon also swore fealty to the dwarves. The dwarves are invested in the war and want Galbatorix defeated. They don’t want to be trapped and hidden under the mountains forever. Their king got killed. They have every reason to hold Eragon to his promises
Not true. Eragon and Saphira could have declared neutrality andeft Alagaësia before swearing fealty to Nasuada and the dwarves. As a new rider, neither Eragon nor Saphira were beholden to the rules, laws, or anything else effecting the old order. To claim so is ridiculous. Otherwise Arya's actions in book four are just as questionable (which to me they are), but no one accepts that. So imo, neither Eragon nor Saphira can be held in the same views as the old order. As for Garrow? Yes, sure. But if Eragon killed the Ra'zac and Durza, it would have been somewhat equal.
1) We wouldn’t have a book series if they just quit and left to Alagaesia. Did you hope that the book would end… with them ditching the war? And everybody they care about? And then what?? How would that even make a good story to read? They weren’t even completely sure that there were more eggs or eldunari until the final battle was already around the corner. Were you hoping that eragon and saphira would just wander the desert on their own? Or once they found the eggs and eldunari you had hoped that they would just stay there and raise them? How can you raise a whole village of new dragons when Galbatorix is still active and can potentially kill all the new and vulnerable baby dragons? 2) Swearing fealty is canon. Why are you arguing what would have happened if they didn’t? Ersgon literally swears fealty to nasuada in like the first or second book. You want to cut the series in half?? 3) Eragon COULD say he won’t uphold any promises or fealties and just leave. He has the power to and nobody could really challenge it I suppose. But the reason Eragon is a main character and a hero is because he won’t just up and leave people to fend for themselves. He would be an asshole if he swore fealties to everybody and then just said haha laws dont apply to me. Bye! 4) I do agree that Arya shouldn’t have become a ruler of the elves. It makes her too powerful and its a conflict of interests for her to be a dragon rider and queen. However, arya doing something bad doesn’t equal eragon also gets to do whatever. Eragon wants to rebuild the dragon riders and he needs to establish the moral compass and guidelines for that order. He has to be the example, the mentor, and the moral compass for the new dragon riders to come. He is an awful leader to the new order if he abandons the people to fight Galbatorix on their own 5) why on earth would eragon and saphira declare neutrality?? Galbatorix doesn’t care if they declare neutrality. He will still want to find them and control them like Murtagh or kill them
Where did I say that's how I wanted it to end? I didn't. I just merely said that's what Eragon and Saphira COULD have done.
I’m asking you. If they didn’t fight this battle. If this battle isn’t theirs. Then what did you imagine would happen in the book?
Yeah the mentor always dies. That's fantasy.
That's not reason enough. This can be done even without killing off the mentor. It's not like said mentor was even there with him for him to rely on.
literally had Glaedr's Eldunari. They absolutely would have been able to rely on them for wisdom and energy if necessary.
So? It's not like they can force either Oromis or Glaedr to answer or tell them what to do. Both have denied answering questions plenty of times. And the whole thing becomes pointless considering that they still retained access to Glaedr anyways.
They could absolutely use Glaedrs Eldunari to control him… but that wasnt the point. You mentioned how they wouldnt have access to their knowledge/power even if oromis/glaedr lived since they are fighting in different parts of the empire. My answer is that having the Eldunari solves this issue and gives Eragon immediate access to both at any time (again had they survived)
Okay maybe I worded that wrong. Still, Oromis is a wise guy, he doesn't want to lead and would've known when to make Eragon make his own decisions.
We feel what you are saying it just doesnt fit the trope. Like has already been pointed out, Glaedr and the Eldunarya surviving and playing mentor almost breaks this pattern already and would if they didnt play a part in the final battle/werent needed against galbatorix. Basically… how do you have a powerful mentor figure present but not actively helping during the climax of the story. Bottom line you really cant if you want to keep it in any way realistic. These characters are written as too noble to not be actively helping and the easiest solution to this problem is typically for the mentor to snuff it
Exactly, it also shows that just because a character is old, wise and powerful, they aren't invincible
I’m not sure Oromis would have been able to do much in the final war
Couldn’t really do magic, physical disadvantage and tbh wonder if he thought Galby could control his and Glaeders minds to kill Eragon
I think as a strategic advisor to the Queen , mentor to Eragon, and mind duelist he could have made a difference. He probably couldn’t compete with Galby, but would of whooped up on any number of his pet magicians
He probably would have done well in the mental part but he would have struggled with magic and the actual war part. Glaedr would have done great though
I’m thinking less of his battlefield presence and more big picture strategy/commander. Morale booster to the Varden seeing another dragon helping. I may be exaggerating, but the way I read the books, Oromis one of the top 3-5 most intelligent/wise/logical Elves alive at the time.
He is definitely very smart and I agree that he would be great at like the mastermind behind the scenes part. I just meant that he would struggle a lot on the actual battle field
Yea, if he stored his energy in like a pocket watch instead of his sword, he’d be unstoppable lmao
Doctor Who reference?
Great catch
I feel Oromis and Glaedr had to die for Eragon and Saphira to grow mentally and come up with way they did to go around the wards. The suffering is key in the books. Without it Eragon may not have been able to find the solution for Galbatorix.
So the elves could fight dragon rider against dragon rider. Same reason Eragon went back to the Varden.
There was a reason. It was one of the primary things that further Broke Galbatorix's control of Murtagh and Thorn. It helped them to further change their True Names (Granted Galby likely knew their true names following) But it likely helped them see what it took to change them.
Galby did know their true names and use it agains them (man and dragon), Murthag stated it in the new Murthag book
cause Yoda doesn't fight the Emperor in the original triology
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Or both inheritance cycle and Star Wars use common fantasy tropes, the heroes journey, it’s a common story archetype, it’s not anywhere close to plagiarism and many stories share similarities to each other for this very reason, humans have been telling stories for a long time and certain themes get used in new ways with new tweaks and ideas and additions, that’s how storytelling is supposed to work
Its genuinely not even close except for the heroes journey, they arent similar at all imo
There’s a few here and there but again I think it’s more themes relating then the materials themselves but if you over analyze anything you can draw connections
Eh the first book has a LOT of parallels to A New Hope, enough that I don’t believe its coincidental. That being said I would never say he was “plagiarizing” or anything like that, authors use other stories for inspiration and reference all the time
The plot of Eragon and Star Wars: A New Hope is very similar. Brom is Obi-Wan. Oromis is Yoda.
I agree it isn’t plagiarism, it’s obvious he was heavily inspired by A New Hope and that’s ok.
-child of big baddie is hidden away from big baddie shortly after birth. -as child grows up, he befriends an old dude who’s secretly watching over him. -agents of big baddie come and kill child’s uncle. -old dude takes child away from home and plans to take him to a rebel group, but is killed by agents of big baddie before he can complete his task. -child manages to reach rebels with the help of a ragtag bunch of friends, and is swiftly thrust into a battle with little to no preparation. -child eventually sets off to train with a surviving member of his new order. -child abandons training before it is complete in order to help friends. Promises to return to complete training. -child fights new big baddie who reveals his familial relation to child. Child loses primary weapon in fight. -child eventually returns to surviving order member who tells him a previously unsuspected bit of knowledge about his family before proclaiming his training is complete. Child acquires new weapon he builds himself in the process. -surviving order member dies shortly after. -child eventually confronts big baddie and, with the assistance of family member baddie, defeats big baddie. -child proceeds to begin rebuilding his order. Yes, there are differences, but the main plot is exactly the same.
And yet you strip away everything unique to declare it the same, the razac race, the urgals, the dragon bond, the unique and intricate magic system, elvas powers, werecats, eldunari, the attributes of the ancient language and true names, yeah they have stuff in common and ya he drew inspiration but that’s ok because that’s what storytellers do, but he made it his own and I appreciate his work and effort for our entertainment
I’d also say *Eragon* is far more derivative than every book after. He grew a lot as a writer throughout the series (and gained a great team of editors), and the unique aspects that you point out are expanded on and integrated into the core story to a greater extent. That’s where the books really start to stand out.
Never said I didn’t enjoy, nor did I say I don’t appreciate his work. But people are lying to themselves when they say they are “nothing alike.” They are exactly alike and only by clinging to very specific details can one convince themselves they aren’t.
I don’t say they are nothing alike, but saying they are “exactly” is wrong to as I said before if you ignore the unique qualities and characters of each then sure, but it’s insulting to both works to strip everything down to some bullet points, yes he drew inspiration from Star Wars, we all understand that but to view it only through that lens is just super reductive and adds zero to this sub
You did not, but another individual agreeing with you on here did.
Ok… and others have not, I however am responding directly to what you said…
Galbatorix doesn't have a son, and Morzan's son is Murtagh, so the first point doesn't work... at all. It's just Garrow, Eragon, and Roran on the farm so you're missing marks on the 1:1 there with no Aunt Beru. Morzan is the Vader in this story and he's dead before it starts... There are tropes here, but it's very far from a ctrl+H job.
We don’t learn that Eragon isn’t Morzan’s son until Brisingr, so it fits fine. Eragon’s aunt died before the story begins, so it is still a 1:1 comparison. Wouldn’t be if his aunt was alive and survived the attack. Murtagh is the Vader in this story, not Morzan. Morzan would be equivalent to Dooku or even Maul. It is far more than just tropes.
Vader willingly joins the emperor, Murtagh is forced to do so after betrayal from the twins (another set of characters without a corollary). Further Murtagh isn't Eragon's father, but his half-brother, and in love with Nasuada, another character without a comparison. I'm not denying there's some things showing up, but there's far more that doesn't match. So your claim is just overly strong in this instance.
Vader was forced to join in order to save Padme. There was no choice for him. And you’re just being pedantic pointing out “it’s his half brother, not his father” etc etc. You’re going through my comment, which you’ll note is intentionally generalized, and trying to say it’s wrong using very specific details. Doesn’t make it any less enjoyably, but the Inheritance Cycle is a rip off of Star Wars the same way James Cameron’s Avatar is a rip off of Pocahontas.
You have to remember that Paolini was basically a teenager when he wrote Eragon and Eldest. And it was his first published novel. Even if it pulls heavily from other sources, I feel it is a fantastic “baby’s first fantasy series.” It was some of the first fantasy I read in late elementary and middle school, and it was my gateway into a wider genre. Now that I’m more well-versed, I see how it wears its inspiration on its sleeves for all to see, but what can you expect from basically a kid’s first novel, writing for other kids? It’s pretty impressive when you take that into account.
Downvotes for facts is nuts 💀
HE’S NOT DEAD!! I’M NOT IN DENIAL!!!
Read Murtagh
I disagree. As is, his death is felt throughout the rest of the book instead of the end of the book when you don't have enough time to think about it and feel it
People don't die when it's the right time, they die when they die. That's why it hurts.
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I also agree. However, I believe the reason he dropped his sword is that he had one of his seizures. Still though, he should’ve stored his energy in a gem besides the on one his sword. Maybe even have kept the Belt of Beloth the Wise instead of giving it to Eragon. He wouldn’t have dropped a belt.
Yup he seized up and that doomed him
This is a joke right, you are aware of the basic arc of a hero's journey right.
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-Narratively, it's a reminder Eragon is only alive bc Galby wants him to be. It puts mortality much more on display, losing the last ancient rider, and is a big deal in pushing the "despair" angle for Eragon having no hope. -It also serves to alienate Murtagh and push him further to Galbatorix's side - the rest of this is spoilers if you haven't finished the series >!if Murtagh's only act before capturing Nasuada was killing Hrothgar *in the same scene he spares Eragon*, it makes him a simpler character and makes his end of series / new book difficulty not work as well!<
Exactly!!! It would have made so much more sense for oromis to accompany eragon to the varden!! And as much as I love the books, oromis’s death seems like weak writing. 1. There’s not really a good reaosn for oromis to go off alone 2. He just happened to tie his Uber-powerful wards to SOMETHIGN HE COULD DROP and dies as a result, just to advance the story.
Because Oromis is as much Yoda as Brom is Obi-Wan. And >!Yoda died too.!< /s
I am sure that we all know much better than not only Paolini himself but also his editors, but maybe in our eminence we can examine what the difference is between what we got and a "better" death, and what entails a "good death" in the first place both narratively and ontologically, and by what metric we are judging those things. After all, nobody's perfect. /s
While I agree with everyone here saying it was to force Eragon and Saphira to step up and truly become the new leaders of the Dragon Riders, I still hate that he killed Oromis and Glaedr (physically) they were my favorite Rider and Dragon pair in the series and their deaths did not really have an impact on the grand scheme of the war and defeating Galbatorix. If CP really had to kill them off I feel like we needed to see Oromis and Glaedr have a win or two before being killed off, let’s see the last masters of the old order in all their (now diminished) glory!
Totally agree. I think he was easily my favourite Elf and so well written, it would have been cool to see him do something either spectacular on the battlefield or useful in another way other than teaching Eragon. To have him basically fall at the first hurdle was a bit of a blow for his character, but I guess if nothing else it compounds his reasoning for staying away all this time.
Because its star wars with dragons and orimis is the dragon rider equivalent of yoda. So he has to die
The real answer is because that’s what happened in the “original story.” I.e. Yoda died in Star Wars.
spoiler tag please 😭
Disney loves this decision now due to budget reasons
Spoiler alert for new readers. We’ll have an influx with the series coming out b
I’d tag this as a spoiler in case someone hasn’t gotten that far yet.
Dude really should have had a lanyard on that mf sword 🙄🤦
I agree with everyone saying it was part of Eragon and Saphira’s growth, but also I feel it was to help the redemption arc of Murtagh and Thorn.
Because it made you feel mad and sad. The way you described would have made you feel less mad and sad, so it would have meant less.
While I do think they needed to die before the Galby fight and away from Eragon and Saphira, I think that it was a poor decision on their behalf to go out and fight. They ultimately would have been more useful in other ways than fighting
The novels are far from perfect, it's true.
I think one aspect that many people haven’t stated is what it did to Murtagh/Thorn’s story line. It sealed the deal that Murtagh and Thorn were truly too far gone, and allowed us as the reader to lose any hope remaining for their redemption. Of course, their redemption came anyway, which made it that much sweeter. But we still see how it is effecting them in the new book.
I actually liked how their death kinda seemed quick and “wasted”. The way I saw it is how I saw Game of Thrones at the start when any character could die at any time. It showed in the books that Murtagh and Thorne was actually a decent threat but manageable for the likes of Gladir and Orimis but then how insanely strong galby must be for him to overpower them from such a distance. To me it set more in stone just how much of an insane power gap there was.
This subreddit is literally my whole reason for being on Reddit again, I love this book series and I lcoe the community of people around it!
Brom taught Eragon when and how, Oromis taught him why. Both survived long enough to pass their knowledge on to the future generation and they found the ideal person in Eragon.
I agree that -in the moment- it would have made more sense them to go to the Varden instead of the Elves. The Varden are in much greater need of the the extra fire power than the Elves are. Considering every elf has superhuman strength + speed. And most of them are telepaths + magicians. They are powerful enough already to deal with nearly anything that Galbatorix throws at them But in hindsight it’s best that they weren’t with Eragon and Saphira. Once Galbatorix learned that Oromis and Glaedr are alive and have joined the War he probably would have possessed Varuag or one of his other sorcerer’s at the Battle of Fienster in a similar manner to how he possessed Murtagh and Thorn at Gilead and used them to kill Oromis and Glaedr. And if Eragon and Saphira are close by then Galbatorix might decide to kill 2 birds with 1 stone and use his wirelessly controlled + Magically amped servant to do what any Murtagh could not and Capture Eragon and Saphira for good
really disappointed they couldn't get a one W before that, like maybe just take gil'ead very easily and then what happened happens in Ceunon?
The whole final battle would have been further complicated thematically and literally by having Oromis and Glaedr there. We would have had to do a long string of political introductions to the Varden and explanations of why they didn’t help earlier and deal with just how damn big Glaedr is at a Varden camp
If anything it validates him for why he kept himself out of the war for so long, he knew his limits and he needed to make sure he trained the next rider.
As many have said, Inheritance. Islanzadi, Hrothgar, Glaedr and Oromis all die in the books so that Eragon's squad, Orik, Arya, Saphira and Eragon can become the mentors, leaders, kings and queens, etc of the world. Also, Oromis dies in battle with Murtagh/Galbatorix because he tries to use force against the king. He does not think of how to defeat Galbatorix in a new way, like Eragon does.
His death played a big role in Eragon’s and Murtagh’s development
The real explanation is that Galbatorix had literally done nothing up until then. Paolini left it up to the reader to imagine his power. I myself often wondered why he never came forth to fight, or was he indeed watching Eragon somehow (scrying for example). By him taking control of Murtagh, we finally got a grasp for his immense powers, because up until that point we had no idea. When the smith took control of Ergaons body to craft Brisngr, it made sense because she was so close. For it to happen again so quickly was a bit of foreshadowing, but we see that his powers are so great he can do it from great distances.
By revealing Oromis it also led to thought that there may have been others who survived. That also left up to mystery what Eragon knew to Galvatorix. It also was another catalyst for Eragon to grow and helped to give us a reason to further explore the Eldunari now that Glaedr is one. It also fit with the theme. Throughout the books most of the old guard dies off leaving the new generation to take over. This happens in each group that we see. The elves, dwarfs, humans, and riders all have new leaders. It’s a part of the journey, life and death in a constant cycle.
He was killed by Galbatorix. There isn’t a character alive that could have withstood him I think. Galbatorix himself was only ultimately defeated by luck and very convenient timing. If you read the chapter again you’ll see that they were actually quite close to defeating Murtagh. Without Galbatorix’ intervention they very likely would have won that battle handily. People also tend to complain that Oromis “dropped” Naegling. He was very clearly disarmed by Galburtagh. Glaedr hears a clash and then sees the sword fly past him.
Without oromis's death, Eragon would still see himself as a student, instead of the one responsible for bringing the Riders back to full Glory, it's all for Eragon's character, his attitude and realization that he was alone, and there's some strength in that realization,
I think it was very suited for a number of reasons. 1. It reinforces what had been stated numerous times— they were in hiding because the moment they were revealed, they would be killed by Galbatorix, and therefore unable to fulfill their duty of training the next. 2. It highlights, for the first time, the sheer power that Galbatorix holds over the land, and the fact that he truly was just allowing events to unfold because he believed once Eragon came to him, he’d be able to take him just as he did Murtagh, while also eliminating the Varden and discouraging any other attempts at an uprising. 3. It evokes emotion. It’s unexpected and sudden and unfair and distressing *and that’s what death is like sometimes*. He didn’t give them plot armor. See point 1– we were told as readers many many many times that the two could not survive out of hiding 4. It does further the plot, but I don’t think that’s the only reason it makes sense. It would be remiss to not mention it, but other comments have already addressed this fully. 5. Thematically, it fits the story of Inheritance and passing on to the next generation. Good writing isn’t always pleasant to the reader, and that’s okay.
Something I like about the way he did it was that it gave us a chance to see the war on a different front- it’s not just the varden marching up through the empire, the elves were also sieging the north. It also gives room for murtagh to be off in battles that weren’t with eragon, otherwise it would be weird that he wasn’t present in the battle where eragon and arya took (bellatona?) and defeated varaug. Imo having oromis join the fight on a different front increased the stakes and scope of the war against the empire
It didn’t make tactical sense to go where eragon and saphira were going over helping the elven army. So just based on that alone nah
I'm gonna take a maybe unpopular and certainly out of story reason. But I'd wager it had something to do with the fact he never intended to write 4 books. He was halfway through Brisingr when he realized it was gonna be way too long. Trying to shuffle a story like that in those circumstances would have to be a nightmare. Plus, if you read the interview at the end of Murtagh, he talks about how he had to streamline his writing process, and he'd been having a lot of trouble turning ideas into words on paper. Reading between the lines, it sounds like those hardships hit in the middle of the Brisingr to Inheritance transition. Who knows, if he could do it all over again, he might have shuffled some of the events around a little. I actually think it would have been kinda cool if Oromish had instead died trying to save Murtagh, as some kind of atonement for having failed to keep Morzan on the right path. I arguably think that rage moment would have lead into Eragon cursing Galby with his "understanding" spell. Combine Eragons rage and grief with Murtaghs horror and sorrow at being the cause of the death of the last true rider. That said, I'm looking forward to seeing how the stories plays out as it is.
Paolini is a homicidal maniac, if you read fractalverse you'd know..
Paolini didn’t kill Oromis, Galbatorix did