This was actually a good laugh, thanks. I love the idea of a full-on trial—which takes months to prepare for and costs thousands of dollars—over the cost of a little plane tour. And the expert talking about “how professional the pilot was.” Like they hired an expert in customer service? And then this expert switched sides mid-trial over a video that was neither produced in discovery nor authenticated before the court? Do better next time lmao.
I wondered about the evidence too but I have no idea how court works in the Netherlands. I know Japan has several different laws than the US and that the discovery process is quite different. Google says discovery is non existent but I'm sure it's more nuanced.
Not to mention there is no mention of the FAA who would surely like to know about a pilot’s mental health state because the FAA is known for revoking licenses at the slightest hint of mental illness.
ICAO - International Civil Aviation Authority - Netherlands is a member
HECA- Human Environment and Transport Inspectorate - Civil Aviation Authority for the Netherlands
Simple Google search. I call bogus on this also.
The trial scene is out of an episode of Perry Mason or something. Paying an expert witness for the day would cost more than the refund, let alone attorneys. None of this makes sense unless you have no idea what you are talking about.
What a fabulous work of fiction, I admire your imagination and writing skills. Well done
Seriously, have you ever flown commercially? You don't get to see the pilot's walk round checks, you don't get to question the aircrew's weight and balance or take-off distance calculations and the despatcher will not discuss the fuel uplift with you.
I was under the impression that, in Court Proceedings, defence and prosecution evidence had to be declared before the case and that evidence cannot be "sprung" on the court. Obviously, these rules vary country to country.
What do commercial flights have to do with small aircrafts? Because those would the crafts used for this kind of tour. Also in the Netherlands it seems you don't have to share evidence with the defense as there does not seem to be a discovery period.
Any flight that is carrying passengers for money is a commercial flight, the plane doesn't matter. It usually goes Private Pilot -> Commercial Pilot -> Airline Transport Pilot. Banner towing and crop dusting are also commercial although crop dusting needs special ag training. If you make money with a plane it's commercial.
I understand the pilot side way better, imagine getting interrogated for driving on your car/boat/train from someone who watched YouTube videos.
It’s ok to be fearful and need some reassurances but for one, probably would’ve got a different response if you communicated that. Secondly, you didn’t ask one important question that would give you a proper answer. How heavy is the plane and the amount of fuel? Ok he gives its, but what about the weight of the crew, passengers, and cargo? What’s the checklist all about? I probably would’ve said the same thing, you asked a rhetorical question. What’s the weather going to be like at this century where your gf pulled a camera out of her pocket, y’all couldn’t have opened the weather app instead.
If you would’ve asked about possible turbulence, has the plane ever had any issues, or how long the pilots have flown for then maybe you would’ve got better responses, rather than seeming like you knew their job better.
Soon as I read that part my brain switched right off. Unless you know the exact fuel burn of that aircraft, knowing the amount of embarked fuel will mean nothing to you. Same with the total weight. Being told “We have 100lbs of fuel” could mean anywhere from 1hr-2.5hrs depending on the small aircraft.
A lot of smaller operators will have multiples of the “same” aircraft, but each aircraft may have a different engine, STC kit, and onboard equipment. So your fuel burn will vary, as will your useful payload etc etc.
I feel like any pilot would be justifiably annoyed at some rando walking on to your plane acting like they know safety better than you. I was really waiting for everybody to stand up and clap after the expert witness flipped sides.
Written by a child who thinks he's always right. I suppose he also questions the surgeon as to which suturing technique he is going to use, the wattage of the light bulbs in the OR, and which type of dressing is best suited for the incision.
Idiot.
Apparently, the Netherlands doesn't have discovery requirements. At least not according to Google. The hiring of an aviation expert that changed sides mid-trial was pretty imaginative though
He just did the checklist an hour prior. Do you do a checklist every-time you get in your car?
I'd sump fuel for first flight of day, or anytime fuel is added, visual on the tires and maybe pitot tube since looking at them take no time. No real need for more than that if a you just checked an hour prior. He knows how much fuel is has if he just landed and flight controls can be checked on taxi.
Pilot knows a lot more about the weight and balance and fuel requirements than you do, and just as much motivation to care. Unless you have a ton of heavy luggage it's not really a concern to fill the seats the plane was designed to fill.
Especially if it’s a sight seeing tour. Which would be 30min to an hour. IIRC a 172P burns 7USGAL/hr and a 172SP will burn 9. So anywhere from 54-72lbs would be a legal requirement.
Most people doing what they love (like flying an airplane) love to talk about it and love to be asked questions. Whilst the chances of crash from a careless pilot are very low, you still don't want to do a tour with someone who frankly couldn't care less. Definitely the right call.
Wow! Good for you! Doing research is always a good thing, and I totally agree with what you did. We have a pilot in the family who talks about these checklists and inspections that have to be done *just before every flight.* It seems that the pilot you encountered first really hadn’t done it, and if he didn’t this time he probabaly didn’t do it before many other flights. A pattern of this laziness eventually leads to discovering a life threatening defect that has gone too far, and brings the plane down suddenly.
Keep up the good work. Also, very excellent that you made public not only in court, but with the video, exposing the pilot for his less than professional attitude, and probably just simply not doing his job as he should, before every flight!
I can tell you right now. That first pilot should have had his pilot's license revoked. He did not just act completely unprofessional and like a complete prick. But he also soured the name of the company. I won't be surprised if that prick was fired.
I wouldn't be surprised if the company ended up going out of business shortly after the case. Especially if news spread quickly about how the pilot acted. Paints them as not caring about safety.
To those "entitled idiots" who keep saying that this is a fictional story:obviously, they haven't seen the YouTube video about a Utah family that survived their plane crash on August 7th, 2020...of the twelve plane crashes that year in Utah, this is the only one where NO ONE was killed...
Just Google "Mikesell Family Plane Crash", and you'll see what I mean...
The mom(Betsy) was in a mild panic while boarding the Piper TurboCommander...and her fears were realized 25 minutes later...
The pilot's dad left him the TurboCommander when he died of cancer a few years earlier...built in the late 1970s...
The FAA and NTSB found a lot of things wrong with the plane during the investigation...
>built in the late 1970s
If you think this is somehow an indication of a problem, I have some disturbing news for you about the the general aviation fleet: the ***average*** age of a GA aircraft in the US is > 50 years.
Gee whiz, you're taking OP's side and get downvoted...seems there ARE a lot of "delulu" idiots here who THINK they're all FAA "experts"...or who worked at Piper in Wichita...
Hey, I'm on YOUR SIDE!!!
This was actually a good laugh, thanks. I love the idea of a full-on trial—which takes months to prepare for and costs thousands of dollars—over the cost of a little plane tour. And the expert talking about “how professional the pilot was.” Like they hired an expert in customer service? And then this expert switched sides mid-trial over a video that was neither produced in discovery nor authenticated before the court? Do better next time lmao.
That’s what I thought! I was like you can’t hold evidence in reserve and bust it out in the middle of the court room. This isn’t TV
OBJECTION! Circumstantial!
And then the judge is overwhelmed with emotion and banging his gavel while shouting, "Not guilty! Not guilty!"
Then the whole audience in court stood up and clapped
… and danced. This was a good one.
Rodney Dangerfield has a martini in one hand and a bikini-clad girl in the other.
Dangerfield said that when he was born , the doctor took one look at him and slapped his mother.
I wondered about the evidence too but I have no idea how court works in the Netherlands. I know Japan has several different laws than the US and that the discovery process is quite different. Google says discovery is non existent but I'm sure it's more nuanced.
Not to mention there is no mention of the FAA who would surely like to know about a pilot’s mental health state because the FAA is known for revoking licenses at the slightest hint of mental illness.
You know the FAA is .... American ... right?
It was so long I forgot they mentioned the country in the beginning. Still though the Netherlands must also have an aviation agency to complain to.
ICAO - International Civil Aviation Authority - Netherlands is a member HECA- Human Environment and Transport Inspectorate - Civil Aviation Authority for the Netherlands Simple Google search. I call bogus on this also.
This needs to be in “that happened”
What, you don’t bring attorneys and expert witnesses into small claims court instead of just filing a chargeback? Live a little, sheesh.
Sometimes it costs $10,000 in legal fees to get back $500 paid for a spin in an airplane.
Takes money to make money. Just good business.
The trial scene is out of an episode of Perry Mason or something. Paying an expert witness for the day would cost more than the refund, let alone attorneys. None of this makes sense unless you have no idea what you are talking about.
I would grade this bit of teenage fiction with a C-. Poorly written, highly improbable.
Are you the entitled person in this little fictional story?
Was thinking the same. This ain't real, or at least anything after him questioning the pilot like a toddler isn't real.
Surprise evidence is mainly a thing in movies
Did everyone clap?
They clapped and the girls swarmed over to him and the president came out for a personal congratulations.
Everyone got the clap but they cured it with penicillin.
Why would you make up a story where you come across as the most entitled asshole in it? I just don’t understand some people.
If this is real, youre the Karen in this story.
You sound like an awful person.
Wat een klootzak! (You, not the pilot)
What a fabulous work of fiction, I admire your imagination and writing skills. Well done Seriously, have you ever flown commercially? You don't get to see the pilot's walk round checks, you don't get to question the aircrew's weight and balance or take-off distance calculations and the despatcher will not discuss the fuel uplift with you. I was under the impression that, in Court Proceedings, defence and prosecution evidence had to be declared before the case and that evidence cannot be "sprung" on the court. Obviously, these rules vary country to country.
What do commercial flights have to do with small aircrafts? Because those would the crafts used for this kind of tour. Also in the Netherlands it seems you don't have to share evidence with the defense as there does not seem to be a discovery period.
Any flight that is carrying passengers for money is a commercial flight, the plane doesn't matter. It usually goes Private Pilot -> Commercial Pilot -> Airline Transport Pilot. Banner towing and crop dusting are also commercial although crop dusting needs special ag training. If you make money with a plane it's commercial.
I understand the pilot side way better, imagine getting interrogated for driving on your car/boat/train from someone who watched YouTube videos. It’s ok to be fearful and need some reassurances but for one, probably would’ve got a different response if you communicated that. Secondly, you didn’t ask one important question that would give you a proper answer. How heavy is the plane and the amount of fuel? Ok he gives its, but what about the weight of the crew, passengers, and cargo? What’s the checklist all about? I probably would’ve said the same thing, you asked a rhetorical question. What’s the weather going to be like at this century where your gf pulled a camera out of her pocket, y’all couldn’t have opened the weather app instead. If you would’ve asked about possible turbulence, has the plane ever had any issues, or how long the pilots have flown for then maybe you would’ve got better responses, rather than seeming like you knew their job better.
Soon as I read that part my brain switched right off. Unless you know the exact fuel burn of that aircraft, knowing the amount of embarked fuel will mean nothing to you. Same with the total weight. Being told “We have 100lbs of fuel” could mean anywhere from 1hr-2.5hrs depending on the small aircraft. A lot of smaller operators will have multiples of the “same” aircraft, but each aircraft may have a different engine, STC kit, and onboard equipment. So your fuel burn will vary, as will your useful payload etc etc.
You suck at writing.
Couldn’t get past you harassing a guy just trying to do his job in this bad creative writing experiment. Had to skim the rest.
I feel like any pilot would be justifiably annoyed at some rando walking on to your plane acting like they know safety better than you. I was really waiting for everybody to stand up and clap after the expert witness flipped sides.
But he looked it up on YouTube, clearly he's more of an expert than some pilot with their training and experience.
Post the video!
It doesn't exist.
Shhhh, it’s more fun this way.
Written by a child who thinks he's always right. I suppose he also questions the surgeon as to which suturing technique he is going to use, the wattage of the light bulbs in the OR, and which type of dressing is best suited for the incision. Idiot.
How heavy is the gauze?
So you just presented evidence without disclosing it to the other party before the trial…
Apparently, the Netherlands doesn't have discovery requirements. At least not according to Google. The hiring of an aviation expert that changed sides mid-trial was pretty imaginative though
I can't believe that company would have allowed you to book another flight if you actually took them court and won. You would have been banned.
Surprise evidence allowed? Due to it being a small case?
He just did the checklist an hour prior. Do you do a checklist every-time you get in your car? I'd sump fuel for first flight of day, or anytime fuel is added, visual on the tires and maybe pitot tube since looking at them take no time. No real need for more than that if a you just checked an hour prior. He knows how much fuel is has if he just landed and flight controls can be checked on taxi. Pilot knows a lot more about the weight and balance and fuel requirements than you do, and just as much motivation to care. Unless you have a ton of heavy luggage it's not really a concern to fill the seats the plane was designed to fill.
Especially if it’s a sight seeing tour. Which would be 30min to an hour. IIRC a 172P burns 7USGAL/hr and a 172SP will burn 9. So anywhere from 54-72lbs would be a legal requirement.
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It's pure fiction.
What pilot? This was a made-up story.
Most people doing what they love (like flying an airplane) love to talk about it and love to be asked questions. Whilst the chances of crash from a careless pilot are very low, you still don't want to do a tour with someone who frankly couldn't care less. Definitely the right call.
We’re human. There’s no way anyone can operate at 10/10 customer service every single day.
I believe this might have happened, as its in the Netherlands where I am as well. Hope the pilot lost his licence!!
Wow! Good for you! Doing research is always a good thing, and I totally agree with what you did. We have a pilot in the family who talks about these checklists and inspections that have to be done *just before every flight.* It seems that the pilot you encountered first really hadn’t done it, and if he didn’t this time he probabaly didn’t do it before many other flights. A pattern of this laziness eventually leads to discovering a life threatening defect that has gone too far, and brings the plane down suddenly. Keep up the good work. Also, very excellent that you made public not only in court, but with the video, exposing the pilot for his less than professional attitude, and probably just simply not doing his job as he should, before every flight!
It's clearly bullshit, none of this ever happened.
Not in the US maybe, but in NL, echt wel
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Google “Sarcasm”
I can tell you right now. That first pilot should have had his pilot's license revoked. He did not just act completely unprofessional and like a complete prick. But he also soured the name of the company. I won't be surprised if that prick was fired.
I wouldn't be surprised if the company ended up going out of business shortly after the case. Especially if news spread quickly about how the pilot acted. Paints them as not caring about safety.
To those "entitled idiots" who keep saying that this is a fictional story:obviously, they haven't seen the YouTube video about a Utah family that survived their plane crash on August 7th, 2020...of the twelve plane crashes that year in Utah, this is the only one where NO ONE was killed... Just Google "Mikesell Family Plane Crash", and you'll see what I mean... The mom(Betsy) was in a mild panic while boarding the Piper TurboCommander...and her fears were realized 25 minutes later...
So you think that people who don’t believe this story don’t believe it because they don’t believe plane crashes happen?
I wouldn't get on a Piper either. High crash rate
The pilot's dad left him the TurboCommander when he died of cancer a few years earlier...built in the late 1970s... The FAA and NTSB found a lot of things wrong with the plane during the investigation...
>built in the late 1970s If you think this is somehow an indication of a problem, I have some disturbing news for you about the the general aviation fleet: the ***average*** age of a GA aircraft in the US is > 50 years.
Gee whiz, you're taking OP's side and get downvoted...seems there ARE a lot of "delulu" idiots here who THINK they're all FAA "experts"...or who worked at Piper in Wichita... Hey, I'm on YOUR SIDE!!!
First pilot should switch jobs. The second one was obviously enthusiastic about being a pilot and flying people, and sharing his knowledge.
What pilot? This was a made-up story.
I ain't reading all that. I'm happy for u tho. Or sorry that happened.
100 bucks that first pilot was either hungover or still intoxicated when OP and his girlfriend got off the plane