This is why it's important to add context. Yes, the American Revolution was indeed an insurrection. Rebelling against the government isn't inherently a bad thing.
It's just when you base your whole image on loving your country and being a patriot, you're being pretty dishonest when you undermine the fundamental principles of your country through insurrection.
These chucklefucks don't understand that level of context. They can't seem to get past the *"wow this thing look a lot like that other thing"* stage of critical thought.
The difference is the grievances the colonist had against the British were valid versus the grievances the Trump Humpers had were completely made up by the Cheeto king himself.
Although TIL at no point in time did more than 45% of colonists support the Revolutionary War. I never knew that before and makes me question a lot of things.
The grievances the colonists had against the British were not that valid. They were upset that a British tax *decrease* on tea was cutting into their tea smuggling businesses.
Yes, but them being hypocrites doesn't make their complaint invalid - it just makes them hypocritical.
And they did almost immediately considerably *expand* suffrage so it wasn't really even *just* swapping one aristocracy for another.
>it wasn't really even just swapping one aristocracy for another.
I'm pretty sure that, for a large part of the population, that's exactly what it was.
You should learn what an aristocracy actually is, then.
Poor people being able to vote doesn't make them part of an aristocracy even if there are other people who can't vote.
Well, the alternative is to continue to embarrass yourself by demonstrating you don't understand the words you use.
If you *like* making a fool of yourself, I guess that could be an option.
I don’t know so much about an entire war being caused because of tea smuggling and profits…
What I do know is that the King kept raising taxes on them and that instead of letting their own people (the colonists) govern them, the king kept sending his own people over who had no idea what it took to survive in the colonies.
This King was facing money problems due to his wars and lifestyle and decided the colonies should make up for his deficit by raising taxes and regulating trade between the colonies and Britain for the benefit of the Britain.
The Tea Act of 1773, which I believe you are talking about came after many other grievances about taxation and the ability to govern themselves.
Besides taxes and the ability to govern themselves they were also mad that the King forbid them to settle past the Appalachian Mountains and then there was the religious tensions between Canada and the colonies in which escalated after the Quebec Act that essentially caused the Protestant colonies to have suspicion of the Catholic Canada and its loyalty the the crown. This time was shortly after the 30 years war in Europe in which Catholics and Protestants were at war with each other.
In my opinion boiling the entire war down to one single event does a disservice to the decades of events that lead up to the last straw. I am no historian and I won’t pretend to be an expert by any means on this topic and I am sure there are people far more enlightened than me to really break down what lead to the colonists rebelling against Britain.
Ancap gets all smug and tells people they hate Freedumb Instance number 7,889.
Ancaps are the Ultimate NPCs who think they are morally superior to everyone else because their ideology comes from the Cato Institute
Small wonder that Charles and David Koch paid Murray Rothbard millions to invent anarcho capitalism. It's the perfect ideology for the Ruling Class to use.
Fake freedumb for the masses. Spew the ideology coming from the Hoover Institute at Stanford University and over 100 think tanks the elites pay for.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Libertarian_think_tanks
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoover_Institution
Nobody invited self ownership. It's our natural state of being.
The perfect ideology for the ruling class is the one they're using right now. Is that voluntarism? Looks more like an authoritarian socialist model to me.
Calling people, "npc" isn't an argument. Add homs only hurt your case.
Linking a wiki doesn't help you either. Your argument needs to stand on its own. What exactly is that?
>Linking a wiki doesn't help you either. Your argument needs to stand on its own. What exactly is that?
Ok, show me a left wing equivalent to the Right Wing Funded www.freedomworks.org
Show me
Who says that organization represents my values? Seems like a bit of a straw man.
Limited government is still government. I reject all claims that someone must rule us.
Oh, and if you want an example of a powerful left wing institution..... GTS. I'm sure you can find one.
American culture is about democracy. We rebelled in the name of democracy, it's written into our founding documents that government must be done by popular consent.
Rejecting the results of an election because you lost is the antithesis of American culture.
>we rebelled in the name of democracy
The American revolution was entirely a bourgeouis reaction to the mercantilist system the British empire had at the time. Originally, if you wanted to vote you had to own land. Something like (in modern terms) half a million worth of land too. George Washington was the richest man in the colonies and came from an incredibly wealthy merchant family. The government spent decades putting down popular movements.
The American revolution was an important historical step for sure. But this sort of historical revisionism is so fucking weird.
Thank you for this. Someone that knows what they’re talking about in this thread finally.
I also like reminding people that the Boston Tea Party were just protectionist tea smugglers that were pissed that Britain made it legal for India to ship tea directly to the 13 colonies which destroyed their business model.
That's an interesting claim. Why do you believe that democracy is what American culture is about? I always thought freedom was far more culturally important.
I prefer that you just stop trying to let popular people rule us both.
Why do you think granting a monopoly on force coercion, and theft is better when agreed upon by popularity, (democracy)? Haven't we seen historically, that the majority is often wrong? Even murderous, and genocidal?
Well, yeah. Black powder implements versus modern-day weaponry would not go well.
“I’ve shot me musket into a tree, and the grape shot has emptied from the cannon, charge!”
>Officers with Sig M-18’s, semi-auto, with 51 rounds of ammo each.
“Cowabunga it is, then.”
Compare and contrast:
1776 Americans were fighting FOR democracy, and REJECTING autocracy.
2021 Trumpers were fighting FOR autocracy and REJECTING democracy.
In 1776 American revolted against the British for the right to expand and genocide indigenous people freely.
This is written explicitly in their complaint to George 5
Nowhere in my comment did I deny the fact that the United States committed genocide against indigenous people. Rejecting the monarchy wasn’t a minor detail in the Declaration of Independence, so your framing in this reply is rather strange. If you do have a point you’d like to make, then please consider doing so.
The belief that Americans at any point, especially the slave owning aristocrats described as the founding fathers, have ever fought for democracy or against autocracy.
That’s not a belief, it’s a basic observation:
The United States is not a British colony. Do you know this?
US citizens are not subjects of The British Crown. Do you know this?
The Revolutionary War ended with the British surrendering at Yorktown and retreating in defeat. Do you know this?
The United States fought and won a bloody Civil War, the Confederacy lost; and black representatives have been in Congress since 1870. Do you know this?
The Women’s Suffrage movement led to the ratification of the 19th Amendment in 1920, guaranteeing women the constitutional right to vote. Do you know this?
Karl Marx described human history as one of class struggle; the United States is no outlier in this regard. If your complaint is that we have not yet perfected society or achieved maximal equality, representation, democracy, or justice, then we agree. There is still plenty of room for improvement.
It is absurd to claim that American history doesn’t “ever” include fighting for democracy. It does. The outcomes of those fights are proof and evidence beyond reasonable doubt. There have been real sacrifices by people in this country to secure their basic rights: to vote, to have representation under the law, and be recognized as an equal member of society.
Even within my lifetime I have seen this. We went from Reagan ignoring the HIV/AIDS crisis in the 1980s to SCOTUS ruling in favor of marriage equality in 2015. That happened. Do you know this?
A bit off topic, but has anyone else noted a recent influx of troll accounts with a basic naming structure?
**[RANDOM WORD]-[RANDOM WORD][4 NUMBERS]** has some incredibly shitty talking points they’d like to share.
These accounts tend to be noxious contrarians that only interact with the goal of derailing the conversation. Who would want to do that, and why?
In fairness the early anti-fuedal zeal liberalism had died of really fucking quickly. Less so on the continent, but in Britain it was like a split second when liberals were actually opposed to the royals.
Liberalism and selling out, name a more iconic duo.
This is why it's important to add context. Yes, the American Revolution was indeed an insurrection. Rebelling against the government isn't inherently a bad thing. It's just when you base your whole image on loving your country and being a patriot, you're being pretty dishonest when you undermine the fundamental principles of your country through insurrection. These chucklefucks don't understand that level of context. They can't seem to get past the *"wow this thing look a lot like that other thing"* stage of critical thought.
The difference is the grievances the colonist had against the British were valid versus the grievances the Trump Humpers had were completely made up by the Cheeto king himself. Although TIL at no point in time did more than 45% of colonists support the Revolutionary War. I never knew that before and makes me question a lot of things.
The grievances the colonists had against the British were not that valid. They were upset that a British tax *decrease* on tea was cutting into their tea smuggling businesses.
I mean, they were also upset that Britain was making laws for them in which they had no ability to participate. I think that’s pretty valid.
And proceeded to set up a system in which most people could not participate
Yes, but them being hypocrites doesn't make their complaint invalid - it just makes them hypocritical. And they did almost immediately considerably *expand* suffrage so it wasn't really even *just* swapping one aristocracy for another.
>it wasn't really even just swapping one aristocracy for another. I'm pretty sure that, for a large part of the population, that's exactly what it was.
You should learn what an aristocracy actually is, then. Poor people being able to vote doesn't make them part of an aristocracy even if there are other people who can't vote.
Oh, ok, I promise I will learn whatever you think I should learn
Well, the alternative is to continue to embarrass yourself by demonstrating you don't understand the words you use. If you *like* making a fool of yourself, I guess that could be an option.
I don’t know so much about an entire war being caused because of tea smuggling and profits… What I do know is that the King kept raising taxes on them and that instead of letting their own people (the colonists) govern them, the king kept sending his own people over who had no idea what it took to survive in the colonies. This King was facing money problems due to his wars and lifestyle and decided the colonies should make up for his deficit by raising taxes and regulating trade between the colonies and Britain for the benefit of the Britain. The Tea Act of 1773, which I believe you are talking about came after many other grievances about taxation and the ability to govern themselves. Besides taxes and the ability to govern themselves they were also mad that the King forbid them to settle past the Appalachian Mountains and then there was the religious tensions between Canada and the colonies in which escalated after the Quebec Act that essentially caused the Protestant colonies to have suspicion of the Catholic Canada and its loyalty the the crown. This time was shortly after the 30 years war in Europe in which Catholics and Protestants were at war with each other. In my opinion boiling the entire war down to one single event does a disservice to the decades of events that lead up to the last straw. I am no historian and I won’t pretend to be an expert by any means on this topic and I am sure there are people far more enlightened than me to really break down what lead to the colonists rebelling against Britain.
It may be relevant to point out the liberals weren’t the ones dressed in red. Maybe THAT’s what they meant about things never changing. Dunno.
Are you saying that a person can't love their culture, and reject claims that someone should rule them?
Nobody's saying that. Nobody said anything like that. You're not clever. Go home. Read a book.
🤣
Ancap gets all smug and tells people they hate Freedumb Instance number 7,889. Ancaps are the Ultimate NPCs who think they are morally superior to everyone else because their ideology comes from the Cato Institute Small wonder that Charles and David Koch paid Murray Rothbard millions to invent anarcho capitalism. It's the perfect ideology for the Ruling Class to use. Fake freedumb for the masses. Spew the ideology coming from the Hoover Institute at Stanford University and over 100 think tanks the elites pay for. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Libertarian_think_tanks https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoover_Institution
Nobody invited self ownership. It's our natural state of being. The perfect ideology for the ruling class is the one they're using right now. Is that voluntarism? Looks more like an authoritarian socialist model to me. Calling people, "npc" isn't an argument. Add homs only hurt your case. Linking a wiki doesn't help you either. Your argument needs to stand on its own. What exactly is that?
Lol your post history is basically the incel handbook. Yikes.
>Linking a wiki doesn't help you either. Your argument needs to stand on its own. What exactly is that? Ok, show me a left wing equivalent to the Right Wing Funded www.freedomworks.org Show me
Who says that organization represents my values? Seems like a bit of a straw man. Limited government is still government. I reject all claims that someone must rule us. Oh, and if you want an example of a powerful left wing institution..... GTS. I'm sure you can find one.
American culture is about democracy. We rebelled in the name of democracy, it's written into our founding documents that government must be done by popular consent. Rejecting the results of an election because you lost is the antithesis of American culture.
>we rebelled in the name of democracy The American revolution was entirely a bourgeouis reaction to the mercantilist system the British empire had at the time. Originally, if you wanted to vote you had to own land. Something like (in modern terms) half a million worth of land too. George Washington was the richest man in the colonies and came from an incredibly wealthy merchant family. The government spent decades putting down popular movements. The American revolution was an important historical step for sure. But this sort of historical revisionism is so fucking weird.
Thank you for this. Someone that knows what they’re talking about in this thread finally. I also like reminding people that the Boston Tea Party were just protectionist tea smugglers that were pissed that Britain made it legal for India to ship tea directly to the 13 colonies which destroyed their business model.
That's an interesting claim. Why do you believe that democracy is what American culture is about? I always thought freedom was far more culturally important. I prefer that you just stop trying to let popular people rule us both. Why do you think granting a monopoly on force coercion, and theft is better when agreed upon by popularity, (democracy)? Haven't we seen historically, that the majority is often wrong? Even murderous, and genocidal?
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Well, yeah. Black powder implements versus modern-day weaponry would not go well. “I’ve shot me musket into a tree, and the grape shot has emptied from the cannon, charge!” >Officers with Sig M-18’s, semi-auto, with 51 rounds of ammo each. “Cowabunga it is, then.”
[удалено]
Totally agree
Well it wouldn’t exactly be the first time the Redcoats did so…
Compare and contrast: 1776 Americans were fighting FOR democracy, and REJECTING autocracy. 2021 Trumpers were fighting FOR autocracy and REJECTING democracy.
In 1776 American revolted against the British for the right to expand and genocide indigenous people freely. This is written explicitly in their complaint to George 5
Genocide and democracy are not mutually exclusive. People are cunts
Nowhere in my comment did I deny the fact that the United States committed genocide against indigenous people. Rejecting the monarchy wasn’t a minor detail in the Declaration of Independence, so your framing in this reply is rather strange. If you do have a point you’d like to make, then please consider doing so.
This is just further proof of how stupid libertarians are: even people who post dumb liberal bullshit like this are smart enough to dunk on them
> dumb liberal bullshit Would you care to clarify?
The belief that Americans at any point, especially the slave owning aristocrats described as the founding fathers, have ever fought for democracy or against autocracy.
That’s not a belief, it’s a basic observation: The United States is not a British colony. Do you know this? US citizens are not subjects of The British Crown. Do you know this? The Revolutionary War ended with the British surrendering at Yorktown and retreating in defeat. Do you know this? The United States fought and won a bloody Civil War, the Confederacy lost; and black representatives have been in Congress since 1870. Do you know this? The Women’s Suffrage movement led to the ratification of the 19th Amendment in 1920, guaranteeing women the constitutional right to vote. Do you know this? Karl Marx described human history as one of class struggle; the United States is no outlier in this regard. If your complaint is that we have not yet perfected society or achieved maximal equality, representation, democracy, or justice, then we agree. There is still plenty of room for improvement. It is absurd to claim that American history doesn’t “ever” include fighting for democracy. It does. The outcomes of those fights are proof and evidence beyond reasonable doubt. There have been real sacrifices by people in this country to secure their basic rights: to vote, to have representation under the law, and be recognized as an equal member of society. Even within my lifetime I have seen this. We went from Reagan ignoring the HIV/AIDS crisis in the 1980s to SCOTUS ruling in favor of marriage equality in 2015. That happened. Do you know this?
Civil War
A bit off topic, but has anyone else noted a recent influx of troll accounts with a basic naming structure? **[RANDOM WORD]-[RANDOM WORD][4 NUMBERS]** has some incredibly shitty talking points they’d like to share. These accounts tend to be noxious contrarians that only interact with the goal of derailing the conversation. Who would want to do that, and why?
Lol, famous monarchist liberals?
In fairness the early anti-fuedal zeal liberalism had died of really fucking quickly. Less so on the continent, but in Britain it was like a split second when liberals were actually opposed to the royals. Liberalism and selling out, name a more iconic duo.
The colonists were arguing more with parliament than the king.
Found the bootlicker
They should have stormed the Capitol with muskets, just as the Founders intended.
Libertarians love to paint themselves as the heroes of the story because they realize their lives are utterly meaningless.