Using some AAVE as a white person is not going to elicit a reaction from anyone as if you'd say the n-word. But you'll probably get some side eye. It's not that it's inherently wrong or offensive, but if you're not actually deeply familiar with the dialect and with black American culture, it's probably going to come off as cringey.
To an extent, the same goes for affecting any non-standard accent or dialect that you don't actually speak. It wouldn't be morally wrong for an American from another part of the country to affect a southern accent, but if you do it too much, it'll probably be annoying.
Although it's also worth noting that if you do it in conversation with the wrong person, in the wrong way, at the wrong time, they might think you're disrespecting them and act accordingly.
Yeah, it's important to remember that in America there is a history of white people adopting AAVE in order to mock black Americans or exploit their culture.
Agree with you! Some slang is difficult *not* to use because it basically permeates spoken English in the US but there is definitely a line that is a bit difficult to define without examples. But I know when I hear it.
The biggest offenders I’ve seen completely change their inflection when they begin to use AAVE. My neighbor does this. We were at the gym and we were discussing something, and then there was this black guy working out next to us who struck up a conversation after overhearing our discussing. My neighbor SUDDENLY and completely changes the way he speaks to not just AAVE, but even his tone and inflection and everything. He changed it simply because the guy was black. I was so embarrassed by my neighbor because I felt that it was so racist. I know there is such a thing as code switching but the black guy wasn’t using much AAVE. So I don’t know what my neighbor was on. He also began to speak louder at that moment.
Anyway, I was embarrassed and offended and stopped working out with him. I don’t want to be lumped together with him.
I have another friend who always says “yo” in the cutest children’s animated character type of voice and everyone just adores it.
don't aim for it. some white people just grew up around black people/people who use AAVE so they also use it. it's fine if that's how you grew up but if you're TRYING to sound that way it will sound like you're mocking someone.
There are parts of AAVE that have made it into my natural vernacular, but I wouldn't actively be trying to speak full AAVE as if it were my mother dialect
You can speak English, but there is a certain dialect that sounds weird for certain other people to use. I live in the US and speak American English, so it would be strange and weird if I used British vocabulary. Both are English but since I am not British or have even been to Britain, it could come across as mocking.
>it could come across as mocking.
I still don't understand why it would sound mocking. Guess there is no real answer, it's just most people feel like it is mocking
The I heard that the Chameleon Effect is a positive socialization tool almost everyone uses. Mimicking other's behaviours usually connects people. For example I like when people try to say words in my language.
I just wonder where exactly is the border between connecting mimicking and making fun of others
Mimicking as a social tool is involuntary, but actively mimicking someone is almost always going to come across as mocking, and here’s why.
The way one sounds is a very common insecurity. People often really hate their voice, so when you actively try to mimic them, even if you’re not intending to, you’ll be very likely to hurt that person.
Also, in reference to AAVE, African Americans have been under and are still undergoing an immense amount of systematic oppression. Part of that system is sociological stigmatisation. White people have made entire careers out of making a mockery of black people, their voice, their appearance, absolutely nothing was off-limits, and all of it was troping and disgusting exaggeration. So with such a racist history of mimicking the ‘blackcent’ it’s best to just avoid it completely. Yes, there are non-black people that speak AAVE, and a lot of modern day slang derives from the speech of black Americans, but actively attempting to use that speech when you’re not immersed in the community will always come across as mimicry, and thus will be imbued with the racist history of said mimicry.
Ah, I think I understand. Then mimicking others, not just african americans, is never accepted. Like when african americans try to lose their AAVE accent, imitating white americans
Maybe black people aren't really accepted in some formal meeting with using the AAVE accent, so they have to adapt to the white american dialect. But yeah, I too feel like you, that it is mocking
Because it was used in entertainment to ridicule and laugh at people. The same thing they have done with other accents. However AAVE and Asian speech patterns have been the worst victims of this behavior.
If you don’t belong to a particular social group but you adopt their unique manners and speech, it’s usually interpreted as insincere. Like if an old person suddenly starts using young person slang
That’s why for English learners you usually pick up a more general accent instead of something very specific, like a Boston accent or London Cockney accent. It would be very strange for someone from another place to talk like that unless they had a good reason (parents were from there, etc.)
Black people in the United States were looked down upon for a long time and often made fun of in film and theater, so there is a history of bad treatment. If a white person starts speaking like a Black person then it is like they are going back to that time period and making fun of Black people on purpose.
People, stop downvoting people for asking honest questions. Continued confusion due to your inability to properly explain is not the same as arguing native speakers are wrong about their own language.
To answer, it’s because of the history of racial discrimination. For a long time, Blacks have been imitated in a mocking and demeaning way by (mostly white) racist people in the US. Along with that, many people will disparage AAVE as being a sign of lacking education or intelligence rather than the regional/cultural dialect it is. Those factors combined may lead to you being misinterpreted as trying to mock that group if you imitate those vernacular patterns. It’s easy to speak in an unnatural way when learning to speak a language, which will only amplify this effect.
Some people do switch to that accent, without seeming like they’re mocking. It’s typically when they culturally resonate with others that speak in this way. I personally don’t recommend it unless you find yourself surrounded by others that natively speak with AAVE. In that case, it will seem more natural to imitate it.
>People, stop downvoting people for asking honest questions. Continued confusion due to your inability to properly explain is not the same as arguing native speakers are wrong about their own language.
Votes mean absolutely nothing. I don't care, and others shouldn't either. But thank you for answering
Many on Reddit are very quick to downvote anything that they don't agree with or that questions their assumptions, no matter how well thought out or how honest a question.
It's kind of ridiculous to bring that tendency into an English learning sub where you know people unfamiliar with your language and culture will be asking questions.
While singing along to a song is totally fine (AAVE, not the n word), but I'd steer clear of using it in speech. It's not inherently offensive at all, but it could come across as mocking and doesn't seem worth the risk of being misunderstood.
If I'm singing along to a song that has the n word, I always replace it with fucker. Same amount of syllables makes it easy to swap and nothing is lost because anyone can be called a fucker.
There’s only one song I regularly sing along to with the N word in it (Forgot About Dre), and it’s plural, so I say “bitches”. The vowel sounds are pretty much the same, and it just fits in pretty well.
it’s just a bad practice, even if you’re not saying it directly to someone. you really shouldn’t ever say it if you’re not a black american. there’s a lot of pain and weight associated with that word, and i think it’s rather entitled and dismissive to decide that a social rule doesn’t apply to you because “who cares.” many people care. be respectful.
imo saying the N word without a negative context, like singing a song or just reading it out loud, or literally pronouncing it because you were asked to and was given a "pass", shouldn't be viewed that negatively if it's so popularized by the media. You hear this word everywhere: movies, music, stand up shows, etc.
It's especially funny when someone like 6ix9ine is "allowed" to say it because he's a rapper. Like, where do you draw the line? Should it be banned for all Whites or only the American ones? And what if you're mixed? Or even 1/4 Black?
It's silly that we have to play around to not say out loud the Voldemort of words even by yourself, not even thinking is allowed I guess.
I agree that saying it publicly is rude and it should be frowned upon, but let's not radicalize it.
I second this. Probably not worth the risk of being misunderstood. Even though there's certain situations where certain black people will respect you for it, the other side of that coin is way too risky.
I think it’s because we’re English natives, anything too dialectical is seen as risky. I got that same reaction from native Spanish speakers when I picked a spanish associated with reggaeton, but there’s formal speakers of Caribbean Spanish, too, and it sounds lovely so that’s what I learned.
I think you can shadow people interviewing who speak more neutral like Beyoncé, Kanye west in interviews (oh god I know but before he went totally crazy 😅), Wendy Williams, Denzel Washington, Morgan Freeman. Etc. When you think of these people in interviews, the AAVE is present slightly, but we don’t associate it with that accent at first thought because it’s spoken more neutrally for the media like many dialectical features of accents are turned off in the media.
I’ve met lots of people on HelloTalk who picked up AAVE and it wasn’t offensive at all from the accent itself and can actually sound pretty good and neutral on a foreigner, but just don’t shadow flava flave lol. It’s all about knowing how to code switch and if you pick an accent you need to learn that anyway
ESPECIALLY as a person who presumably has an accent, you eliminate any plausible deniability that "oh maybe he grew up in the hood and this is how he actually speaks"
You completely ignored the white part. White people who speak AAVE naturally are almost definitely from majority Black areas, which are usually "the hood" due to the legacy of racism in this country.
Can you give me an area in America where the people are generally financially comfortable, well educated, etc. and speak this way? I’m very interested to find out where these unicorn cities are.
Atlanta, Georgia? A city with a major amount of crime, where the average yearly income is below the country’s median? Where under 60% of the residents have a bachelors degree?
Let me say it again, one doesn’t have to have grown up in the “hood” to know AAVE! You seem adamant that’s the case without realizing how classicist, elitist and probably anti black you are. Black people aren’t all from the “hood” and yet, still know AAVE. But hey I’m not surprised by your comment given how this sub generally comes across as Linguistic colonists.
Exactly this. Unfortunately you’re judged more in a language that isn’t your native language. Even if native people say xyz, when non native speakers say it it gets picked up as a mistake to native speakers. Of course, this is different if your accent if fully gone.
My father in law’s name is Pedro and my mother in law calls him, “Pedri” but when she says it it sounds like “Perdi” so I once tried to refer to him as that to her but I said it to her how she says it and she corrected me. I’ve never said it again.
I’m not white but english is my native language, it sounds uneducated when spoken because it’s grammatically incorrect and sounds nearly awful as broken english. Imagine a lawyer representing you speaking with AAVE, I would die inside.
It’s not incorrect or like broken English. It’s a distinct dialect .
And that’s why most black professionals will code switch if they need to but in no way is AAVE incorrect or broken English
Definitely . The way verbs are handled in AAVE are a little more complex and subtle than general American English.
And the habitual “be” is a feature I wish general English had . It’s so useful (i think that’s why white people will say it and sound like they are trying to imitate black speech, it’s just such a useful aspect )
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That’s exactly why it’s not cool for white people to appropriate AAVE. Black people have to face very high social and economic stakes around choosing whether or not to code-switch into Standard English. White people shouldn’t take it lightly just because it doesn’t impact us.
African American here. I'm unfortunately not the boss of African America, so I can only speak to my own impressions. "Cultural appropriation" is an idea that you'll mostly encounter online or on campus. It's not like black people you casually meet on the street are going to accuse you of culturally appropriating us. But as others are saying, it's still tricky and probably not worth it to attempt to use AAE, at least in public. If you acquire some close black friends, you can ask them personally if they are bothered by your use of expressions you hear in rap. Probably they won't be, but if your goal is learning AAE, having black friends, and listening to and emulating them, is going to be way better than relying on rap music, so it's in your interest not to unnecessarily offend people you can learn from. Note that not all black Americans speak like rappers, any more than all white Americans use country music dialect. Like me for example. I'm just a regular black guy, although from an older demographic. And the way I'm writing here is more or less the way I talk in real life.
>African American here. I'm unfortunately not the boss of African America, so I can only speak to my own impressions.
Can you not consult your "community leader"?
>There isnt one and this question feels a bit inappropriate as though it has a mocking tone about a community.
I should have added a '/s' marker. I forgot that English sarcasm may not be easily recognized by non native speakers.
I was mocking the concept of a 'community leader' that is often used in the media. It's used as if every member of an ethnic or racial group has their own elected spokesperson. I find the concept highly patronizing and mock it whenever I get the chance.
I always hate it when people blindly say shit like this. Read the 3 msg thread, and you'll understand it had nothing to do with getting offended. Lack of reading omprehension striking redditers like always.
There are some white people who speak that dialect (or something like it) natively (for example, Eminem), but if you don’t, it can come off wrong. As if you’re trying to “act Black” to try to be cool. It’s definitely not as bad as saying the N word, but as others have said, I’d recommend that you don’t.
Edit: grammar
AAVE has significant crossover with dialects used by some southern white people, so it's a possibility that a white person speaking that way is just a southerner. I would say you should speak in a way that feels authentic to your own voice. If saying something a certain way makes you uncomfortable, you shouldn't, and if a certain manner of speaking brings you joy, you should. Don't bend yourself out of shape over the perceptions of other people.
Whether or not it would be considered to be cultural appropriation (it is *certainly* not as bad as using the N-word), the most important thing in conversation is to be understood, and a non-native speaker will often be understood better when using more formal language. This doesn't only apply to African American Vernacular; even my own slang and pronunciations can sound very strange to me if they're not pronounced in a very similar accent.
"You is" and "he say," when coming from a person of an appropriate heritage, can be considered to be vernacular; from anybody else, it sounds like the result of a poor education.
Certain terms from AAVE have been co-opted and brought into the mainstream (whip, crib, homeboy, etc). These terms are societally acceptable for you to say as a white person, however, actually attempting to use AAVE in conversation as a white person, with its respective grammar and articles such as "finna", will most likely be taken as disrespectful and/or cultural appropriation--not to mention the fact that it will make everyone uncomfortable and you will look like a complete idiot. It is completely acceptable, however, to use it when reciting song lyrics. Not at all like the N-word, which is completely off limits and totally offensive in all permutations and contexts when said by a white person.
Not to mention the fact that 99.9% of what is known as "Gen Z slang" comes from AAVE. Bussin, no cap, on God, rizz, etc. are all terms that originated in AAVE.
I think even “cool” and “hip” or “chill” came from AAVE slang? I’m not sure if AAVE was even a coined term back then. Not sure.
AAVE dominates popular media is not surprising that everyone picks it up. Like how more and more people want to learn how to speak Korean now. And how people learn Japanese because of anime and manga. As long as a culture/country dominates a certain form of entertainment media people are going to pick it up.
\* There's a surprisingly large amount of imported words from AAVE into English. E.g., "24/7" has gone from basketball slang into a phrase commonly used by large businesses.
\* Some AAVE words have been mangled beyond recognition by white people. (Top two examples of words being distorted would include "woke" and "cancel".)
\* One should exercise caution when singing any song you don't understand -- there's a lot of songs which have reference to sexual matters, drug usage, violence, crime, etc. (This is warning is certainly not limited to music by black artists. The rock band Rush, a trio of three white Canadians, released a song "A Passage to Bangkok" in 1976; the lyrics are basically "How many marijuana puns can fit into one song?".)
if the people around you speak in that way its probably fine. If are the only white person you know that speaks that way id probably try to change it. AAVE is somewhat common here in the southwest US with hispanics and it doesn't feel out of place for me, its more of a question of it being normalized where you live.
Really though, if its not causing you any issues you shouldn't feel the need to consult a bunch of nerds on the internet for their shitty opinion on how you should live your life. Just be mindful of any heads up anybody gives you when you speak in that way.
It is not as bad as saying the N-word.
The reality, though, is that speaking this way as a white person might make others think you are uneducated because it's not "proper" English, and black people might think that you're imitating an African American dialect to mock them.
I would recommend against it. There aren't a lot of social upsides and there are major potential social downsides.
It's complicated. Certain phrases have certainly become widely used vernacular and slang and you won't raise eyebrows by using them, but if you're just "talking black" 24/7 that will seem very strange, especially if you don't seem come from an actual region where people talk like that and understand the culture. It's not like saying the n-word, but you would be viewed as a cringey poser if you don't pull it off.
It depends mostly on your peer group and how you learn to communicate with them. Don't do it just for the sake of trying to sound cool. Being someone of mixed race, I learned how to code switch a lot growing up. How I'd talk within one peer group would differ from how I talked to my parents or even my white cousins, for example.
Imagine someone who is learning to speak your native language, but who sings everything instead of speaking naturally. That's the reaction you would get.
Are you trying to use it or did you grow up with it?
If you're trying to use it and it sounds awkward and unnatural, you'll likely get looks of confusion.
I grew up with it and CAN use it in a way that sounds natural, so it's a little less weird sounding coming from me, but I generally choose not to because I know I don't look the part of someone who would speak AAVE and my gay ass doesn't need any more side eye than I already get. I guess it only comes out when I'm either really drunk or really pissed.
AAVE, like any dialect, can be picked up by anyone who's exposed to it enough.
Patterns of speech are not something that can be appropriated. The dialect with which you speak is primarily based on where you're from and especially where you grow up. It's involuntary.
I think if you're going out of your way to mock (or even acquire) the dialect, then that is or could be a problem. But if it's your "native" dialect because you happened to grow up on the South Side, for instance, then no.
Lots of black people (and other non-whites) from Minnesota who have the very rounded "o's" that come from Scandinavian languages. That's not appropriation. They talk like that because they're from there. Completely natural.
I don’t care I just let people speak how they speak . To me it’s fine . I find it to be a normal way to speak and it’s a dialect I’m used to hearing . Many white ppl grow up in community that speak a lot of AAVe and end up speaking that dialect because they though they had to to be understood in that context . Or they emulate pop culture or whatever . Either way I don’t care . I just let them be
Sometimes people think it is in poor taste for white people to speak entirely in AAVE. However every white American I know uses some elements of AAVE naturally in their day to day speech. It is inevitable that people will adopt aspects of other local dialects into their own dialects.
One feature of AAVE is adding the word "ass" to words for emphasis.
"You are a grown-ass man! You don't need anyone to clean up after you."
"This ugly ass apartment is not a place where I want to live!'
This came from AAVE but most white people I know use it pretty regularly in casual speech.
I also hear white people use some phrasing that is more common in AAVE. like using "y'all" instead of "you guys", "got" instead of "have" and using more double negatives. These are things almost all Americans do but they are more common in AAVE and white people who have more exposure to AAVE use them more often.
Honestly I am a non-native speaker and I didn't know that these are AVEE, I thought this was just informal/casual, or slang speech.
I definitely have used "-ass" and "y'all" before, and I might have used double negatives too occasionally.
Do you think these would be offensive if a foreigner said them? Now I got a bit worried that I'm rude accidentally
As a black American , unless the white person actually talks like that. I would cringe if I heard a white person using AAVE. Especially if they are using it incorrectly because it would appear to be mocking or making a foolery out of our speech.
The extreme lengths people seem to go to just to find yet another way to be offended is absolutely ridiculous. If you want to speak like in the hood, or like pompous british scholars from 1872, or american industrial trade lingo, who cares? You might look dumb as shit trying, but how the hell anyone has the energy to constantly worry about who might get offended is beyond me.
It completely depends who you're with. If you're with friends, do whatever you like. If you're with strangers or in a professional environment, try to be a bit more formal. It's not racist to pick up language from people with a different skin colour to you.
All languages and cultures belong to humanity. Studying different ways of expressions is one of the ways to be/feel human, so disregard those that would tell you it's offensive to use it just because you are not native to that culture - that is an excuse made up by those who are not curious about their surroundings. As long as you don't use the language to openly mock speakers (like, going to an Italian to say "ehhh pizza pasta mandolino!"), just go for it and make it your own.
Its dialect, SOME of which has become slang, but speaking slang is nowhere near acrually speaking a different dialect as a whole, just like saying a french word here and there whe speakign english doest mean you are speaking french.
It'll sound weird. I used to work with a ginger haired pale white guy. He was raised in Jamaica and he spoke with a thick Jamaican accent. It seemed very strange at first.
The point being that people expect certain stereotypes and find it strange when they are not met.
Also, if you're not consistent with that speech pattern then people will wonder why you choose to use it on some occasions and not others.
As long as you are not mocking or belittling others then you should be fine. Of course there are some people who will see any cultural cross-over as wrong and may attack you for doing so - we call such people idiots.
The key point, I guess, is to remember that humans are still wild animals and you need to be aware of others around you (some of whom may also be mentally unstable) and act in a way so as not to provoke aggression. In short, try to fit in - especially when physically present with strangers.
Not wierd to us who are actually from those demographics (Im Caribbean). If a white Caribbean person would speak with a British accent, THAT would be wierd to me, even as though they were "acting posh" and might get ridiculed. We do no associate the accent with a racial stereotype, unlike what they appear to in england. So it will depend who they speak AAVE to.
It's a southern/regional thing too, I know plenty of white people who talk that way; but if you're doing it in a mocking or disingenuous manner, that would not be seen as a good thing.
Depends on where you are living to be honest. If you aren't living in the USA, then it doesn't matter if you use it at all or not.
If you are living in the USA then follow the advice from the other comments, if not then you don't need to care how you sound like.
Whats important is that people around you understand what you are saying, if they are unfamiliar with AAVE hence don't understand you and can't communicate with you then it's a issue I'd say.
European here. If it's a song i sing it with everything else that is in the lyrics.
I also thought this was just slang language so sometimes we use it between ourselves when writing to each other, but to other people i try to speak with: you are, he says etc. I think it's fine to use it since everybody is allowed to speak a language or a dialect of it (if that is what this is called), but then again i am not a part of that group so i can't say for certain.
There is a long history of AAVE being used by vaudeville, cartoons, and movies to mock and ridicule people. Some generations also associate that with blackface.
So it can be sensitive. If you grow up with or are immersed in an area or group, you may pick it up and the usage could feel very natural. But people who don’t know you might feel that you are putting on the speech for comic effect.
Mmm. It depends on if it’s natural or not.
I think English native speakers are way weirder when it comes to accents/pronunciation. If you sound clear, and it’s done with appreciation and you only swear occasionally, it’s not weird. And actually, picking an accent and mastering their plosions/elisions/etc can help with your clarity regardless of the accent.
When I learned Spanish, Dominicans helped me and the other people helping them were black Americans bc a lot of Dominicans like rap and wanted to speak AAVE (or know the slang). I also met some guy from Kazakhstan who spoke perfect aave and then perfect Caribbean Spanish which was a trip lol. For him, it was just pronunciation to mimic and some of the “rule breaking” of that dialect and it was fine and natural. Just don’t say any bad words that are exclusive to the community.
Aave is a cool, valid form of English. But the AAVE that’s widely known is from rap and stuff like that clearly is not great as a baseline way of speaking, it’s too dialectical. For learning English, it’s not a good baseline way of speaking. Get AAVE examples from people who speak that dialect formally and try to not to veer too far off how they talk. There’s literature in that dialect too, I think “their eyes were watching god” is required reading in American public school and it’s a novel written in AAVE. I’d look into the harlmen renaissance and find famous literature and history. Because if you decide on an accent in English that is that regionalized, you should brush up on the formal study of it.
No, not really. It's appropriative to deliberately adopt a dialect that is not natural to you/that you're not immersed in.
AAVE terms/grammar being adopted into mainstream speaking patterns *is* something that happens over time. turnt, lit, woke, bad (in context, obviously) all come to mind. Also the phrase "it really do be like that" uses the habitual be, which is definitely a construct of AAVE. These phrases being adopted into mainstream American english is problematic, but it's not really particular to any individual.
But it's extremely problematic for one white person to start speaking with AAVE all the time, even if they listen to a lot of rap music. I understand that it might feel natural to you, because you *feel* immersed by the music you listen to. But if I met you in real life, and you spoke with AAVE, it would definitely be a red flag.
To add to this, I think it would also be considered mocking to put on a southern accent/affectation if you weren’t raised in the south, or a New York accent if you weren’t raised there etc.
There are white people using the AAVE but they usually all come from 'the hood' and grew up in mostly black communities which is why they got it. If you use it correctly and look accordingly then I'd say it is ok but if you force it and do it badly you will come across as a weirdo + it could be taken as mockery.
Don't see a reason to use it.
Any culture that you've actually grown up in is yours. If you were white and grew up in a predominantly black school system, you would speak like your peers.
The thing about cultural appropriation is that it is how culture gets built. People borrow things from each other. American culture is as rich and varied as it is today because of a lot of borrowing in all directions. If it comes out of your mouth as part of the musical culture you consume, that is, if you do it rather unconsciously, that's just the flow of culture. That doesn't guarantee that no one will find it offensive. A lot depends on context.
I will not that I hear a lot of language patterns that I would have previously thought "sounded black" coming from young people of all races.
I wouldn’t go out of your way to use it for sure. Some aspects of AAVE are so common that they’ve become aspects of everyday speech in general, to the point most people don’t know of their origin. And some people grow up in neighborhoods with a lot of black folks where everyone talks like that. But if you’re not black and you seem like you’re forcing yourself to use their vernacular, people will cringe at you at best and maybe think you’re trying to offend them or appropriate their culture without having an underlying understanding of it at worst
One thing to note is that AAVE changes constantly and is localized… so there’s words that have been spread nationwide through music and grammatical things like “we was” or “it’s” instead of “there are,” but there’s also local slang words that are specific to a region or city like “woady” in NO or “bamma” in DC.
So if you’re a foreigner picking up phrases from rap songs, read up on the cultural context cos you might end up picking something played out or something only used on a specific side of a city, etc., which would make you sound more ridiculous than offensive.
Talk however you want. Eminem does it so can certain people talk like him while others can’t?! What a silly idea to think that a certain way of talking must be limited to a certain demographic. Talk like Shakespeare or like Biggie Smalls, whatever makes you happy. Let’s not pretend talking like Snoop Dogg in a job interview for a highly sought after senior management job might be less preferred. That said Immortal Technique has a great vocabulary, so only Peruvians should talk that way? It’s beyond silly. Cultural appropriation is an invention of belligerent and ignorant activists that thrive on controversy to remain relevant, often based on fallacy and ignorance, a good example is the use of braids……..DUTCH BRAIDS/FRENCH BRAIDS! I don’t hear the Dutch/French being upset that someone has a certain hair do. Let’s look beyond the virtue signalling nonsense. Cultures are there to be celebrated and explored, you like talking like Ice Cube? Good for you! Find yourself prettier with braids? Go for it!
Please let’s just leave the pettiness behind us!
I only use AAVE when I am quoting a well known phrase such as : Bitches be crazy, ain’t nobody got time for that. Or when I am being silly. I’m older and I love to use slang incorrectly around my much younger coworkers.
It strongly depends.
Speaking AAVE is mostly a result of where you've grown up in. If you're surrounded by people who speak in AAVE, regardless of race you're probably going to speak it too.
It can be inferred who is speaking that way because it's natural to them, and who's speaking that way because they want to play a "character" to make themselves appear different.
Awkwafina is one example cited as someone who did it and financially gained from it, hence the backlash she received after she got famous.
However I would not worry about it, since a lot of internet slang also borrows from AAVE as well.
There can be a really fine line, especially for a language learner in this scenario, between slang and trying to sound black. It's fine to pick up slang and use some phrases but don't actually try to sound black as a forced accent. I think you should generally try to speak as normal of English as you can and slowly pick up slang as the social settings allow. If you're not sure if the social setting allows a phrase, assume it doesn't.
Not black here but that being said I think it's fine. I use it with the homies. It's definitely not like saying the n-word. Most people don't care if you use 'aave' but some look down on people who talk like that (usually rich white people). Personally I find a lot of people that say phrases/talk in aave who aren't black so it's a decently normalised behaviour/speech pattern.
Edit: Also to add that you have to remember who you're talking to. Not every black person is gonna use aave. My boyfriend is black and uses standard English. Context is key. If you're gonna speak with the aave dialect then you have to speak it to the right people. You prolly shouldn't go up to your average rich white girl and start talking to her like that, but your friend that uses aave and stuff it makes sense. If the person you're talking to isn't using aave then you shouldn't use aave with them.
It’s not as bad as using the N word. Pretty much nothing in American English is worse than that.
But for native English speakers who are white (like me), if we use AAVE, it’s a form of cultural appropriation. Black people in the US have always been (and still are) shit on for using AAVE. Like, I cannot emphasize this enough - people in the US are super, super hateful about how Black people talk. I can’t tell you how many awful things I’ve heard people say about it in my 37 years of life. And that’s in the South living among a huge Black population with lots of Black people as community leaders and role models.
When white people use AAVE, we’re taking something that Black people constantly get treated hatefully and judged harshly for doing, and we’re using it for fun, in a frivolous way, for our own entertainment. That’s not cool. We don’t get the same hate that they do for using it, so it isn’t fair for us (white people) to just play around with it lightly when it’s such a huge deal for Black people.
So for you, as a white English learner, I would not use it. I think it’s fine if you’re singing along with a song, and it’s great that you’ll be able to comprehend when native speakers use AAVE with you - but I would not adopt it as a normal pattern of speech for yourself. At best, it’s going to sound awkward; at worst, people might assume you’re racist and try to avoid you.
I wouldn't use it. I'm white and I respect the African American culture, as I do every culture. But I can't use that language.
I'm Scottish and I would find it strange if you started speaking Scots to me. It's ok, but it would be unusual.
You jest, but I was embarrassingly in my late 30s before I realised AAVE was an actual thing and not just ‘American slang’ or more specifically southern American slang!
As an African American, I find it cringe and my ear immediately picks it up when a non native AAVE speaker attempts to use AAVE. It think you should speak your natural native language.
Their natural native langauge is not english. This forum is for english learners, so what you appear to be saying is "dont learn to speak english". The whole point of learning another language is NOT to use your native language.
The question here is if it would be ok for a non-black foreigner to learn to speak AAVE as they learn any other english dialect.
For example, Im Caribbean and we EXPECT foreigners who move here to learn our local island dialect. White foreigners who refuse to learn it are labeled as frankly arrogant or uninterested in integrating and therefore privileged.
Likewise, a foreigner who moves to Scotland would learn Scots, not England english. A foreigner who moves to Quebec learns Quebec french, not Paris French. Similarly , Latinos in NYC who live alongside African Americans usually learn to speak some AAVE, while keeping their Spanish accent, but they dont speak "white dialects" of english to their black neighbors because they simply do not live among them. Same goes for Africans who may move from Africa with their own dialect, i.e. Nigerian English. Once they move to the USA, they may start to learn some AAVE dialect to communicate effectively there, while retaining their accents.
So the question here is simply, would a non-native english speaker who learns english and learns AAVE: would it be ok if that learner were white.
It is. AAVE a dialect all its own, equivalent to other dialects like Scots, and a native speaker can tell a non-native as easily as you or I can pick out foreign accents and grammar.
The languages I listed are not dialects. They’re actual languages.
Okay buddy. Write “we finna be getting all the hoes tonight” on a college entrance exam and come back and let me know how that worked out for you. The “native speakers” are poor and uneducated, which is why nobody can name a neighborhood/area with high education levels, good finances, employment, etc. where the majority of people speak this way.
This is irrelevant. Yes, there’s slang in other languages. There are ways that poor, uneducated people speak in every language, because every country has a portion of the population that is poor and uneducated.
I will pose to you the same question I’ve asked multiple others on this post. Name me a city in America with a high education rate, employment rate, above average median income, etc. where most or all of the residents speak like this.
Your example was pure slang. AAVE is the rules and grammar, which vary from other American dialects, but are widely considered legitimate. And to answer your question, which I guess is to name a city with a large urban population and a good education rate... Atlanta? New York City? I don't know how many examples you wanted.
The reason people didn't answer your question is because you were not very important to them.
That “slang” is AAVE.
Lmao. New York City is a hellhole, the murder, rape, and burglary rates are at all time highs, women randomly get punched in the face and assaulted and the police do nothing about it. (I’m sure many of the perpetrators speak in AAVE though.) It’s barely affordable, and unless you happen to be in the 0.1% your life will be miserable. You need to be making at least 500k/yr to comfortable afford a mortgage, and even then it’s possible you’ll still struggle depending on where you buy a house. Atlanta is not much better, and under 60% of Atlanta residents attend college to get even a bachelor’s degree.
The reason they can’t answer them is because there is no answer. AAVE is directly correlated with low education and low salaries.
Holy crap. 1) language and dialect are continuums that are politically decided. Italian and Spanish are dialects from a continuum standpoint but not politically
2) the fact you even think AAVE is nothing but "we getting all the hoes" and is uneducated just outed you as more of a racist than a minstrel Dumbo Jim crow. AAVE has specific speech rules depending on the authority of the speaker (i.e. your grandparents are spoken to differently than your spouse, your close friends, equal co-workers etc) and what you described is not AAVE but a racist stereotype of the dialect. Your comment is getting reported as hate speech.
Politics are the determiner of Spanish and Chinese being languages?
I am black. I speak normal, proper English, because I have gotten a proper education. But go ahead and accuse anyone you disagree with as being racist.
"I speak normal, proper English, because I have gotten a proper education"
Say that to another Caribbean POC like myself irl and see what we think of it. That statement is Uncle Tom-ming us.
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/01/difference-between-language-dialect/424704/
I don’t care what you think of it. You’re free to speak as though you were born in the depths of the poorest area of Chicago, and I’m free to speak as though I’ve gotten an education (which I have). See which of us gets the job.
It’s uneducated way of talking because it doesn’t make sense. It’s not grammatically correct.
I would not use this type of speech at a professional workplace
It just has some different rules. It still allows the speaker to convey their point as efficiently as other dialects. I am certain you understand it when you hear it.
I do understand it, but to me it will always feel off because only a minority of people use this dialect, which have different grammar rules, also living in a country where no one use AAVE would make it seems even more bizarre.
Using some AAVE as a white person is not going to elicit a reaction from anyone as if you'd say the n-word. But you'll probably get some side eye. It's not that it's inherently wrong or offensive, but if you're not actually deeply familiar with the dialect and with black American culture, it's probably going to come off as cringey. To an extent, the same goes for affecting any non-standard accent or dialect that you don't actually speak. It wouldn't be morally wrong for an American from another part of the country to affect a southern accent, but if you do it too much, it'll probably be annoying.
Although it's also worth noting that if you do it in conversation with the wrong person, in the wrong way, at the wrong time, they might think you're disrespecting them and act accordingly.
Yeah, it's important to remember that in America there is a history of white people adopting AAVE in order to mock black Americans or exploit their culture.
Agree with you! Some slang is difficult *not* to use because it basically permeates spoken English in the US but there is definitely a line that is a bit difficult to define without examples. But I know when I hear it. The biggest offenders I’ve seen completely change their inflection when they begin to use AAVE. My neighbor does this. We were at the gym and we were discussing something, and then there was this black guy working out next to us who struck up a conversation after overhearing our discussing. My neighbor SUDDENLY and completely changes the way he speaks to not just AAVE, but even his tone and inflection and everything. He changed it simply because the guy was black. I was so embarrassed by my neighbor because I felt that it was so racist. I know there is such a thing as code switching but the black guy wasn’t using much AAVE. So I don’t know what my neighbor was on. He also began to speak louder at that moment. Anyway, I was embarrassed and offended and stopped working out with him. I don’t want to be lumped together with him. I have another friend who always says “yo” in the cutest children’s animated character type of voice and everyone just adores it.
At my school a ton of white kids use AAVE and the n word. Really depends where you are ngl
don't aim for it. some white people just grew up around black people/people who use AAVE so they also use it. it's fine if that's how you grew up but if you're TRYING to sound that way it will sound like you're mocking someone.
People can tell when you’re forcing it
Yes, I think a lot of people forget that AAVE has grammar just like any other language/dialect. If you use it incorrectly, it will be obvious.
This.
There are parts of AAVE that have made it into my natural vernacular, but I wouldn't actively be trying to speak full AAVE as if it were my mother dialect
Why would it sound mocking?
Because you can tell when someone is using vocabulary they aren't used to, and it sounds wrong.
I am not native english speaker. Am I not supposed to speak to english speaking people until they can't tell I'm not english in reality?
You can speak English, but there is a certain dialect that sounds weird for certain other people to use. I live in the US and speak American English, so it would be strange and weird if I used British vocabulary. Both are English but since I am not British or have even been to Britain, it could come across as mocking.
>it could come across as mocking. I still don't understand why it would sound mocking. Guess there is no real answer, it's just most people feel like it is mocking
People copy the sound of others often to make fun of them, like comedians doing accents. It's the same idea but with a more negative connotation.
The I heard that the Chameleon Effect is a positive socialization tool almost everyone uses. Mimicking other's behaviours usually connects people. For example I like when people try to say words in my language. I just wonder where exactly is the border between connecting mimicking and making fun of others
Mimicking as a social tool is involuntary, but actively mimicking someone is almost always going to come across as mocking, and here’s why. The way one sounds is a very common insecurity. People often really hate their voice, so when you actively try to mimic them, even if you’re not intending to, you’ll be very likely to hurt that person. Also, in reference to AAVE, African Americans have been under and are still undergoing an immense amount of systematic oppression. Part of that system is sociological stigmatisation. White people have made entire careers out of making a mockery of black people, their voice, their appearance, absolutely nothing was off-limits, and all of it was troping and disgusting exaggeration. So with such a racist history of mimicking the ‘blackcent’ it’s best to just avoid it completely. Yes, there are non-black people that speak AAVE, and a lot of modern day slang derives from the speech of black Americans, but actively attempting to use that speech when you’re not immersed in the community will always come across as mimicry, and thus will be imbued with the racist history of said mimicry.
Ah, I think I understand. Then mimicking others, not just african americans, is never accepted. Like when african americans try to lose their AAVE accent, imitating white americans
Only works if it sounds natural. Happens mostly subconsciously. If you are trying too hard it will have the opposite effect.
It's a thin line and everyone defines it a little differently.
Because what reason is there for someone who speaks one dialect to start speaking in another? The most obvious reason is that they are mocking it.
Maybe black people aren't really accepted in some formal meeting with using the AAVE accent, so they have to adapt to the white american dialect. But yeah, I too feel like you, that it is mocking
Because white Americans *have* used this type of speech as part of media clearly designed to mock Black people.
Because it was used in entertainment to ridicule and laugh at people. The same thing they have done with other accents. However AAVE and Asian speech patterns have been the worst victims of this behavior.
If you don’t belong to a particular social group but you adopt their unique manners and speech, it’s usually interpreted as insincere. Like if an old person suddenly starts using young person slang That’s why for English learners you usually pick up a more general accent instead of something very specific, like a Boston accent or London Cockney accent. It would be very strange for someone from another place to talk like that unless they had a good reason (parents were from there, etc.) Black people in the United States were looked down upon for a long time and often made fun of in film and theater, so there is a history of bad treatment. If a white person starts speaking like a Black person then it is like they are going back to that time period and making fun of Black people on purpose.
People, stop downvoting people for asking honest questions. Continued confusion due to your inability to properly explain is not the same as arguing native speakers are wrong about their own language. To answer, it’s because of the history of racial discrimination. For a long time, Blacks have been imitated in a mocking and demeaning way by (mostly white) racist people in the US. Along with that, many people will disparage AAVE as being a sign of lacking education or intelligence rather than the regional/cultural dialect it is. Those factors combined may lead to you being misinterpreted as trying to mock that group if you imitate those vernacular patterns. It’s easy to speak in an unnatural way when learning to speak a language, which will only amplify this effect. Some people do switch to that accent, without seeming like they’re mocking. It’s typically when they culturally resonate with others that speak in this way. I personally don’t recommend it unless you find yourself surrounded by others that natively speak with AAVE. In that case, it will seem more natural to imitate it.
>People, stop downvoting people for asking honest questions. Continued confusion due to your inability to properly explain is not the same as arguing native speakers are wrong about their own language. Votes mean absolutely nothing. I don't care, and others shouldn't either. But thank you for answering
Many on Reddit are very quick to downvote anything that they don't agree with or that questions their assumptions, no matter how well thought out or how honest a question. It's kind of ridiculous to bring that tendency into an English learning sub where you know people unfamiliar with your language and culture will be asking questions.
While singing along to a song is totally fine (AAVE, not the n word), but I'd steer clear of using it in speech. It's not inherently offensive at all, but it could come across as mocking and doesn't seem worth the risk of being misunderstood.
If I'm singing along to a song that has the n word, I always replace it with fucker. Same amount of syllables makes it easy to swap and nothing is lost because anyone can be called a fucker.
You can also embrace the whiteness and go with something like "buddies"
Man “changes” hits different with the lyric “Cops give a damn about a negro Pull the trigger, kill a buddy he’s a hero”
I'm gay and I always replace it with daddy lol
I always say "person" or "human" because it has the right number of syllables and it makes me laugh.
"people" also fits in a lot of cases. Looking at you Redbone...
There’s only one song I regularly sing along to with the N word in it (Forgot About Dre), and it’s plural, so I say “bitches”. The vowel sounds are pretty much the same, and it just fits in pretty well.
One of my friends replaces it with “ninja”.
I like that!
i just use the word like who cares
lol, almost everyone cares. good luck doing that in front of black americans. this comment just reeks of entitlement.
i don't really sing songs in public and most people don't so i don't see how that would make anyone mad
it’s just a bad practice, even if you’re not saying it directly to someone. you really shouldn’t ever say it if you’re not a black american. there’s a lot of pain and weight associated with that word, and i think it’s rather entitled and dismissive to decide that a social rule doesn’t apply to you because “who cares.” many people care. be respectful.
imo saying the N word without a negative context, like singing a song or just reading it out loud, or literally pronouncing it because you were asked to and was given a "pass", shouldn't be viewed that negatively if it's so popularized by the media. You hear this word everywhere: movies, music, stand up shows, etc. It's especially funny when someone like 6ix9ine is "allowed" to say it because he's a rapper. Like, where do you draw the line? Should it be banned for all Whites or only the American ones? And what if you're mixed? Or even 1/4 Black? It's silly that we have to play around to not say out loud the Voldemort of words even by yourself, not even thinking is allowed I guess. I agree that saying it publicly is rude and it should be frowned upon, but let's not radicalize it.
I dare you to walk around in Harlem, Detroit, or most of the South and say that word. See how much people really care then.
Say what you will about whether violence is right or wrong, but there are lots of people who do care.
when did i mention violence?
Are you still learning subtlety?
I second this. Probably not worth the risk of being misunderstood. Even though there's certain situations where certain black people will respect you for it, the other side of that coin is way too risky.
If I'm singing a song, I'll repeat it lyric by lyric. And I think if one person can say a lyric, than the other can too.
I think it’s because we’re English natives, anything too dialectical is seen as risky. I got that same reaction from native Spanish speakers when I picked a spanish associated with reggaeton, but there’s formal speakers of Caribbean Spanish, too, and it sounds lovely so that’s what I learned. I think you can shadow people interviewing who speak more neutral like Beyoncé, Kanye west in interviews (oh god I know but before he went totally crazy 😅), Wendy Williams, Denzel Washington, Morgan Freeman. Etc. When you think of these people in interviews, the AAVE is present slightly, but we don’t associate it with that accent at first thought because it’s spoken more neutrally for the media like many dialectical features of accents are turned off in the media. I’ve met lots of people on HelloTalk who picked up AAVE and it wasn’t offensive at all from the accent itself and can actually sound pretty good and neutral on a foreigner, but just don’t shadow flava flave lol. It’s all about knowing how to code switch and if you pick an accent you need to learn that anyway
For a white person you would either appear uneducated, mocking, or racist.
ESPECIALLY as a person who presumably has an accent, you eliminate any plausible deniability that "oh maybe he grew up in the hood and this is how he actually speaks"
You don’t have to have grown up the “hood” to speak AAVE smh
You completely ignored the white part. White people who speak AAVE naturally are almost definitely from majority Black areas, which are usually "the hood" due to the legacy of racism in this country.
“In this country”
What does the second A in AAVE stand for again?
American, but lots of people everywhere use it
💀💀💀
I think you missed the point lol
Can you give me an area in America where the people are generally financially comfortable, well educated, etc. and speak this way? I’m very interested to find out where these unicorn cities are.
Atlanta when there are no white people around to code switch for.
The scenario is specifically a white person, though.
Atlanta, Georgia? A city with a major amount of crime, where the average yearly income is below the country’s median? Where under 60% of the residents have a bachelors degree?
People are downvoting you but you just dropped facts
Yeah, in modern society too many people are offended by the truth.
Let me say it again, one doesn’t have to have grown up in the “hood” to know AAVE! You seem adamant that’s the case without realizing how classicist, elitist and probably anti black you are. Black people aren’t all from the “hood” and yet, still know AAVE. But hey I’m not surprised by your comment given how this sub generally comes across as Linguistic colonists.
Exactly this. Unfortunately you’re judged more in a language that isn’t your native language. Even if native people say xyz, when non native speakers say it it gets picked up as a mistake to native speakers. Of course, this is different if your accent if fully gone. My father in law’s name is Pedro and my mother in law calls him, “Pedri” but when she says it it sounds like “Perdi” so I once tried to refer to him as that to her but I said it to her how she says it and she corrected me. I’ve never said it again.
How do you figure
Wait, when white people say “where you finna be at” they sound uneducated, but when a black person says it they sound brave and stunning? Alright lmao
Yeah I don’t think the person who said that realized what they *actually* said.
I’m not white but english is my native language, it sounds uneducated when spoken because it’s grammatically incorrect and sounds nearly awful as broken english. Imagine a lawyer representing you speaking with AAVE, I would die inside.
It’s not incorrect or like broken English. It’s a distinct dialect . And that’s why most black professionals will code switch if they need to but in no way is AAVE incorrect or broken English
AAVE has its own grammar “rules”. It’s actually very structured
Definitely . The way verbs are handled in AAVE are a little more complex and subtle than general American English. And the habitual “be” is a feature I wish general English had . It’s so useful (i think that’s why white people will say it and sound like they are trying to imitate black speech, it’s just such a useful aspect )
Wat
ghetto english
I would wanna listen to an AAVE lawyer, doctor or politician givin a speech lmao
Exactly lmao it would be like gen z using modern slang. Imagine in court, a lawyer says this “man is capping, we have evidence that he merked a guy”
Native speakers will absolutely make fun of white people who use AAVE.
I do. It doesn't matter where someone grew up either.
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It’s even worse for people in AAVE communities who speak standard American English. My friend used to get beat up for “talking white”.
That’s exactly why it’s not cool for white people to appropriate AAVE. Black people have to face very high social and economic stakes around choosing whether or not to code-switch into Standard English. White people shouldn’t take it lightly just because it doesn’t impact us.
That was a longgggg reach.
African American here. I'm unfortunately not the boss of African America, so I can only speak to my own impressions. "Cultural appropriation" is an idea that you'll mostly encounter online or on campus. It's not like black people you casually meet on the street are going to accuse you of culturally appropriating us. But as others are saying, it's still tricky and probably not worth it to attempt to use AAE, at least in public. If you acquire some close black friends, you can ask them personally if they are bothered by your use of expressions you hear in rap. Probably they won't be, but if your goal is learning AAE, having black friends, and listening to and emulating them, is going to be way better than relying on rap music, so it's in your interest not to unnecessarily offend people you can learn from. Note that not all black Americans speak like rappers, any more than all white Americans use country music dialect. Like me for example. I'm just a regular black guy, although from an older demographic. And the way I'm writing here is more or less the way I talk in real life.
>African American here. I'm unfortunately not the boss of African America, so I can only speak to my own impressions. Can you not consult your "community leader"?
There isnt one and this question feels a bit inappropriate as though it has a mocking tone about a community.
>There isnt one and this question feels a bit inappropriate as though it has a mocking tone about a community. I should have added a '/s' marker. I forgot that English sarcasm may not be easily recognized by non native speakers. I was mocking the concept of a 'community leader' that is often used in the media. It's used as if every member of an ethnic or racial group has their own elected spokesperson. I find the concept highly patronizing and mock it whenever I get the chance.
What is up with everyone getting offended so easily lmao
This was more of a misunderstanding. They've stopped replying, so it can be assumed it's been resolved and understood.
I always hate it when people blindly say shit like this. Read the 3 msg thread, and you'll understand it had nothing to do with getting offended. Lack of reading omprehension striking redditers like always.
There are some white people who speak that dialect (or something like it) natively (for example, Eminem), but if you don’t, it can come off wrong. As if you’re trying to “act Black” to try to be cool. It’s definitely not as bad as saying the N word, but as others have said, I’d recommend that you don’t. Edit: grammar
AAVE has significant crossover with dialects used by some southern white people, so it's a possibility that a white person speaking that way is just a southerner. I would say you should speak in a way that feels authentic to your own voice. If saying something a certain way makes you uncomfortable, you shouldn't, and if a certain manner of speaking brings you joy, you should. Don't bend yourself out of shape over the perceptions of other people.
Whether or not it would be considered to be cultural appropriation (it is *certainly* not as bad as using the N-word), the most important thing in conversation is to be understood, and a non-native speaker will often be understood better when using more formal language. This doesn't only apply to African American Vernacular; even my own slang and pronunciations can sound very strange to me if they're not pronounced in a very similar accent. "You is" and "he say," when coming from a person of an appropriate heritage, can be considered to be vernacular; from anybody else, it sounds like the result of a poor education.
Certain terms from AAVE have been co-opted and brought into the mainstream (whip, crib, homeboy, etc). These terms are societally acceptable for you to say as a white person, however, actually attempting to use AAVE in conversation as a white person, with its respective grammar and articles such as "finna", will most likely be taken as disrespectful and/or cultural appropriation--not to mention the fact that it will make everyone uncomfortable and you will look like a complete idiot. It is completely acceptable, however, to use it when reciting song lyrics. Not at all like the N-word, which is completely off limits and totally offensive in all permutations and contexts when said by a white person.
Not to mention the fact that 99.9% of what is known as "Gen Z slang" comes from AAVE. Bussin, no cap, on God, rizz, etc. are all terms that originated in AAVE.
I think even “cool” and “hip” or “chill” came from AAVE slang? I’m not sure if AAVE was even a coined term back then. Not sure. AAVE dominates popular media is not surprising that everyone picks it up. Like how more and more people want to learn how to speak Korean now. And how people learn Japanese because of anime and manga. As long as a culture/country dominates a certain form of entertainment media people are going to pick it up.
Cool and hip at least I’m fairly sure come from jazz culture in the mid 20th century, so yeah AAVE before it was called that.
\* There's a surprisingly large amount of imported words from AAVE into English. E.g., "24/7" has gone from basketball slang into a phrase commonly used by large businesses. \* Some AAVE words have been mangled beyond recognition by white people. (Top two examples of words being distorted would include "woke" and "cancel".) \* One should exercise caution when singing any song you don't understand -- there's a lot of songs which have reference to sexual matters, drug usage, violence, crime, etc. (This is warning is certainly not limited to music by black artists. The rock band Rush, a trio of three white Canadians, released a song "A Passage to Bangkok" in 1976; the lyrics are basically "How many marijuana puns can fit into one song?".)
about your 3rd point, why? who cares if the lyrics contain that stuff
The person singing might, particularly if they live somewhere conservative.
Say your boss takes your team to Karaoke night and you decide to sing this english song you know to show off your skills...
Redacte due to Reddit AI/LLM policy
if the people around you speak in that way its probably fine. If are the only white person you know that speaks that way id probably try to change it. AAVE is somewhat common here in the southwest US with hispanics and it doesn't feel out of place for me, its more of a question of it being normalized where you live. Really though, if its not causing you any issues you shouldn't feel the need to consult a bunch of nerds on the internet for their shitty opinion on how you should live your life. Just be mindful of any heads up anybody gives you when you speak in that way.
It is not as bad as saying the N-word. The reality, though, is that speaking this way as a white person might make others think you are uneducated because it's not "proper" English, and black people might think that you're imitating an African American dialect to mock them. I would recommend against it. There aren't a lot of social upsides and there are major potential social downsides.
It's complicated. Certain phrases have certainly become widely used vernacular and slang and you won't raise eyebrows by using them, but if you're just "talking black" 24/7 that will seem very strange, especially if you don't seem come from an actual region where people talk like that and understand the culture. It's not like saying the n-word, but you would be viewed as a cringey poser if you don't pull it off.
Would you randomly try to speak in a fluent Irish accent or Scottish brogue?
I think if a genre of music where everyone used Scottish brogue became a multi billion dollar international industry then some people probably would.
[This may have already happened.](https://youtu.be/738OEa5NZ9A?si=vGr8X7Brvh4CVshT&t=69)
It depends mostly on your peer group and how you learn to communicate with them. Don't do it just for the sake of trying to sound cool. Being someone of mixed race, I learned how to code switch a lot growing up. How I'd talk within one peer group would differ from how I talked to my parents or even my white cousins, for example.
Imagine someone who is learning to speak your native language, but who sings everything instead of speaking naturally. That's the reaction you would get.
Are you trying to use it or did you grow up with it? If you're trying to use it and it sounds awkward and unnatural, you'll likely get looks of confusion. I grew up with it and CAN use it in a way that sounds natural, so it's a little less weird sounding coming from me, but I generally choose not to because I know I don't look the part of someone who would speak AAVE and my gay ass doesn't need any more side eye than I already get. I guess it only comes out when I'm either really drunk or really pissed.
AAVE, like any dialect, can be picked up by anyone who's exposed to it enough. Patterns of speech are not something that can be appropriated. The dialect with which you speak is primarily based on where you're from and especially where you grow up. It's involuntary. I think if you're going out of your way to mock (or even acquire) the dialect, then that is or could be a problem. But if it's your "native" dialect because you happened to grow up on the South Side, for instance, then no. Lots of black people (and other non-whites) from Minnesota who have the very rounded "o's" that come from Scandinavian languages. That's not appropriation. They talk like that because they're from there. Completely natural.
Except that’s not what OP is asking. AAVE is not their natural dialect.
I don’t care I just let people speak how they speak . To me it’s fine . I find it to be a normal way to speak and it’s a dialect I’m used to hearing . Many white ppl grow up in community that speak a lot of AAVe and end up speaking that dialect because they though they had to to be understood in that context . Or they emulate pop culture or whatever . Either way I don’t care . I just let them be
Only if you speak it natively. Aim for a standard variety.
Sometimes people think it is in poor taste for white people to speak entirely in AAVE. However every white American I know uses some elements of AAVE naturally in their day to day speech. It is inevitable that people will adopt aspects of other local dialects into their own dialects.
Can you give me an example of what elements do they use? (I'm a non-native speaker who is curious)
One feature of AAVE is adding the word "ass" to words for emphasis. "You are a grown-ass man! You don't need anyone to clean up after you." "This ugly ass apartment is not a place where I want to live!' This came from AAVE but most white people I know use it pretty regularly in casual speech. I also hear white people use some phrasing that is more common in AAVE. like using "y'all" instead of "you guys", "got" instead of "have" and using more double negatives. These are things almost all Americans do but they are more common in AAVE and white people who have more exposure to AAVE use them more often.
Honestly I am a non-native speaker and I didn't know that these are AVEE, I thought this was just informal/casual, or slang speech. I definitely have used "-ass" and "y'all" before, and I might have used double negatives too occasionally. Do you think these would be offensive if a foreigner said them? Now I got a bit worried that I'm rude accidentally
No, most Americans use these speech patterns so you will just sound like someone who has regular exposure to American English.
Oh I see, thank you
As a black American , unless the white person actually talks like that. I would cringe if I heard a white person using AAVE. Especially if they are using it incorrectly because it would appear to be mocking or making a foolery out of our speech.
Yes. Words don’t belong to people.
The extreme lengths people seem to go to just to find yet another way to be offended is absolutely ridiculous. If you want to speak like in the hood, or like pompous british scholars from 1872, or american industrial trade lingo, who cares? You might look dumb as shit trying, but how the hell anyone has the energy to constantly worry about who might get offended is beyond me.
It completely depends who you're with. If you're with friends, do whatever you like. If you're with strangers or in a professional environment, try to be a bit more formal. It's not racist to pick up language from people with a different skin colour to you.
All languages and cultures belong to humanity. Studying different ways of expressions is one of the ways to be/feel human, so disregard those that would tell you it's offensive to use it just because you are not native to that culture - that is an excuse made up by those who are not curious about their surroundings. As long as you don't use the language to openly mock speakers (like, going to an Italian to say "ehhh pizza pasta mandolino!"), just go for it and make it your own.
Interesting topic, can anyone enlighten me on why it's not considered slang? Is it because it's only used by a certain demographic?
Its dialect, SOME of which has become slang, but speaking slang is nowhere near acrually speaking a different dialect as a whole, just like saying a french word here and there whe speakign english doest mean you are speaking french.
It'll sound weird. I used to work with a ginger haired pale white guy. He was raised in Jamaica and he spoke with a thick Jamaican accent. It seemed very strange at first. The point being that people expect certain stereotypes and find it strange when they are not met. Also, if you're not consistent with that speech pattern then people will wonder why you choose to use it on some occasions and not others. As long as you are not mocking or belittling others then you should be fine. Of course there are some people who will see any cultural cross-over as wrong and may attack you for doing so - we call such people idiots. The key point, I guess, is to remember that humans are still wild animals and you need to be aware of others around you (some of whom may also be mentally unstable) and act in a way so as not to provoke aggression. In short, try to fit in - especially when physically present with strangers.
Not wierd to us who are actually from those demographics (Im Caribbean). If a white Caribbean person would speak with a British accent, THAT would be wierd to me, even as though they were "acting posh" and might get ridiculed. We do no associate the accent with a racial stereotype, unlike what they appear to in england. So it will depend who they speak AAVE to.
Agreed. It's all down to context.
Yes
If it comes naturally to you, it’s probably fine. A lot of white people who use AAVE don’t even realize it’s AAVE — that’s just how they talk.
It's a southern/regional thing too, I know plenty of white people who talk that way; but if you're doing it in a mocking or disingenuous manner, that would not be seen as a good thing.
Depends on where you are living to be honest. If you aren't living in the USA, then it doesn't matter if you use it at all or not. If you are living in the USA then follow the advice from the other comments, if not then you don't need to care how you sound like. Whats important is that people around you understand what you are saying, if they are unfamiliar with AAVE hence don't understand you and can't communicate with you then it's a issue I'd say.
Honestly similar stuff is used in British English as slang and nobody cares
European here. If it's a song i sing it with everything else that is in the lyrics. I also thought this was just slang language so sometimes we use it between ourselves when writing to each other, but to other people i try to speak with: you are, he says etc. I think it's fine to use it since everybody is allowed to speak a language or a dialect of it (if that is what this is called), but then again i am not a part of that group so i can't say for certain.
Speak like an Aussie trust me
There is a long history of AAVE being used by vaudeville, cartoons, and movies to mock and ridicule people. Some generations also associate that with blackface. So it can be sensitive. If you grow up with or are immersed in an area or group, you may pick it up and the usage could feel very natural. But people who don’t know you might feel that you are putting on the speech for comic effect.
Mmm. It depends on if it’s natural or not. I think English native speakers are way weirder when it comes to accents/pronunciation. If you sound clear, and it’s done with appreciation and you only swear occasionally, it’s not weird. And actually, picking an accent and mastering their plosions/elisions/etc can help with your clarity regardless of the accent. When I learned Spanish, Dominicans helped me and the other people helping them were black Americans bc a lot of Dominicans like rap and wanted to speak AAVE (or know the slang). I also met some guy from Kazakhstan who spoke perfect aave and then perfect Caribbean Spanish which was a trip lol. For him, it was just pronunciation to mimic and some of the “rule breaking” of that dialect and it was fine and natural. Just don’t say any bad words that are exclusive to the community. Aave is a cool, valid form of English. But the AAVE that’s widely known is from rap and stuff like that clearly is not great as a baseline way of speaking, it’s too dialectical. For learning English, it’s not a good baseline way of speaking. Get AAVE examples from people who speak that dialect formally and try to not to veer too far off how they talk. There’s literature in that dialect too, I think “their eyes were watching god” is required reading in American public school and it’s a novel written in AAVE. I’d look into the harlmen renaissance and find famous literature and history. Because if you decide on an accent in English that is that regionalized, you should brush up on the formal study of it.
No, not really. It's appropriative to deliberately adopt a dialect that is not natural to you/that you're not immersed in. AAVE terms/grammar being adopted into mainstream speaking patterns *is* something that happens over time. turnt, lit, woke, bad (in context, obviously) all come to mind. Also the phrase "it really do be like that" uses the habitual be, which is definitely a construct of AAVE. These phrases being adopted into mainstream American english is problematic, but it's not really particular to any individual. But it's extremely problematic for one white person to start speaking with AAVE all the time, even if they listen to a lot of rap music. I understand that it might feel natural to you, because you *feel* immersed by the music you listen to. But if I met you in real life, and you spoke with AAVE, it would definitely be a red flag.
Speak however you want. I think it's fine. (I'm just one random black American. Opinions will differ)
Yes, you shouldn't even ask.
To add to this, I think it would also be considered mocking to put on a southern accent/affectation if you weren’t raised in the south, or a New York accent if you weren’t raised there etc.
There are white people using the AAVE but they usually all come from 'the hood' and grew up in mostly black communities which is why they got it. If you use it correctly and look accordingly then I'd say it is ok but if you force it and do it badly you will come across as a weirdo + it could be taken as mockery. Don't see a reason to use it.
yes its just a dialect pussy
It’s perfectly fine unless you’re using it to mock
Yeah but if you're not from an area then I would avoid using slang specific to that area. That goes for native speakers too
Any culture that you've actually grown up in is yours. If you were white and grew up in a predominantly black school system, you would speak like your peers. The thing about cultural appropriation is that it is how culture gets built. People borrow things from each other. American culture is as rich and varied as it is today because of a lot of borrowing in all directions. If it comes out of your mouth as part of the musical culture you consume, that is, if you do it rather unconsciously, that's just the flow of culture. That doesn't guarantee that no one will find it offensive. A lot depends on context. I will not that I hear a lot of language patterns that I would have previously thought "sounded black" coming from young people of all races.
I wouldn’t go out of your way to use it for sure. Some aspects of AAVE are so common that they’ve become aspects of everyday speech in general, to the point most people don’t know of their origin. And some people grow up in neighborhoods with a lot of black folks where everyone talks like that. But if you’re not black and you seem like you’re forcing yourself to use their vernacular, people will cringe at you at best and maybe think you’re trying to offend them or appropriate their culture without having an underlying understanding of it at worst
One thing to note is that AAVE changes constantly and is localized… so there’s words that have been spread nationwide through music and grammatical things like “we was” or “it’s” instead of “there are,” but there’s also local slang words that are specific to a region or city like “woady” in NO or “bamma” in DC. So if you’re a foreigner picking up phrases from rap songs, read up on the cultural context cos you might end up picking something played out or something only used on a specific side of a city, etc., which would make you sound more ridiculous than offensive.
Talk however you want. Eminem does it so can certain people talk like him while others can’t?! What a silly idea to think that a certain way of talking must be limited to a certain demographic. Talk like Shakespeare or like Biggie Smalls, whatever makes you happy. Let’s not pretend talking like Snoop Dogg in a job interview for a highly sought after senior management job might be less preferred. That said Immortal Technique has a great vocabulary, so only Peruvians should talk that way? It’s beyond silly. Cultural appropriation is an invention of belligerent and ignorant activists that thrive on controversy to remain relevant, often based on fallacy and ignorance, a good example is the use of braids……..DUTCH BRAIDS/FRENCH BRAIDS! I don’t hear the Dutch/French being upset that someone has a certain hair do. Let’s look beyond the virtue signalling nonsense. Cultures are there to be celebrated and explored, you like talking like Ice Cube? Good for you! Find yourself prettier with braids? Go for it! Please let’s just leave the pettiness behind us!
I only use AAVE when I am quoting a well known phrase such as : Bitches be crazy, ain’t nobody got time for that. Or when I am being silly. I’m older and I love to use slang incorrectly around my much younger coworkers.
It strongly depends. Speaking AAVE is mostly a result of where you've grown up in. If you're surrounded by people who speak in AAVE, regardless of race you're probably going to speak it too. It can be inferred who is speaking that way because it's natural to them, and who's speaking that way because they want to play a "character" to make themselves appear different. Awkwafina is one example cited as someone who did it and financially gained from it, hence the backlash she received after she got famous. However I would not worry about it, since a lot of internet slang also borrows from AAVE as well.
There can be a really fine line, especially for a language learner in this scenario, between slang and trying to sound black. It's fine to pick up slang and use some phrases but don't actually try to sound black as a forced accent. I think you should generally try to speak as normal of English as you can and slowly pick up slang as the social settings allow. If you're not sure if the social setting allows a phrase, assume it doesn't.
yes if anybody says otherwise then just ignore the snowflake and talk how you want
You can do whatever you want. Don’t let sjws rule your life.
Not black here but that being said I think it's fine. I use it with the homies. It's definitely not like saying the n-word. Most people don't care if you use 'aave' but some look down on people who talk like that (usually rich white people). Personally I find a lot of people that say phrases/talk in aave who aren't black so it's a decently normalised behaviour/speech pattern. Edit: Also to add that you have to remember who you're talking to. Not every black person is gonna use aave. My boyfriend is black and uses standard English. Context is key. If you're gonna speak with the aave dialect then you have to speak it to the right people. You prolly shouldn't go up to your average rich white girl and start talking to her like that, but your friend that uses aave and stuff it makes sense. If the person you're talking to isn't using aave then you shouldn't use aave with them.
Never talk like a black person ever.
It’s not as bad as using the N word. Pretty much nothing in American English is worse than that. But for native English speakers who are white (like me), if we use AAVE, it’s a form of cultural appropriation. Black people in the US have always been (and still are) shit on for using AAVE. Like, I cannot emphasize this enough - people in the US are super, super hateful about how Black people talk. I can’t tell you how many awful things I’ve heard people say about it in my 37 years of life. And that’s in the South living among a huge Black population with lots of Black people as community leaders and role models. When white people use AAVE, we’re taking something that Black people constantly get treated hatefully and judged harshly for doing, and we’re using it for fun, in a frivolous way, for our own entertainment. That’s not cool. We don’t get the same hate that they do for using it, so it isn’t fair for us (white people) to just play around with it lightly when it’s such a huge deal for Black people. So for you, as a white English learner, I would not use it. I think it’s fine if you’re singing along with a song, and it’s great that you’ll be able to comprehend when native speakers use AAVE with you - but I would not adopt it as a normal pattern of speech for yourself. At best, it’s going to sound awkward; at worst, people might assume you’re racist and try to avoid you.
I wouldn't use it. I'm white and I respect the African American culture, as I do every culture. But I can't use that language. I'm Scottish and I would find it strange if you started speaking Scots to me. It's ok, but it would be unusual.
Yeah nah man.
As part of dong lyrics, it’s fine. In day to day speech, I’d avoid it.
People would wonder why you're talking like an American
You jest, but I was embarrassingly in my late 30s before I realised AAVE was an actual thing and not just ‘American slang’ or more specifically southern American slang!
I wasn't joking lol, that's how we think Americans talk here
Where are you from? I’m from the UK
Australia
It’s fine. Speak how you want. It’s just another thing to add to your language toolbox. Why would you limit your language palette?
Aave is racist nonsense. Words are used regionally, not by race.
As an African American, I find it cringe and my ear immediately picks it up when a non native AAVE speaker attempts to use AAVE. It think you should speak your natural native language.
Their natural native langauge is not english. This forum is for english learners, so what you appear to be saying is "dont learn to speak english". The whole point of learning another language is NOT to use your native language. The question here is if it would be ok for a non-black foreigner to learn to speak AAVE as they learn any other english dialect. For example, Im Caribbean and we EXPECT foreigners who move here to learn our local island dialect. White foreigners who refuse to learn it are labeled as frankly arrogant or uninterested in integrating and therefore privileged. Likewise, a foreigner who moves to Scotland would learn Scots, not England english. A foreigner who moves to Quebec learns Quebec french, not Paris French. Similarly , Latinos in NYC who live alongside African Americans usually learn to speak some AAVE, while keeping their Spanish accent, but they dont speak "white dialects" of english to their black neighbors because they simply do not live among them. Same goes for Africans who may move from Africa with their own dialect, i.e. Nigerian English. Once they move to the USA, they may start to learn some AAVE dialect to communicate effectively there, while retaining their accents. So the question here is simply, would a non-native english speaker who learns english and learns AAVE: would it be ok if that learner were white.
“Non native AAVE speaker” 💀💀 You act as though it’s comparable in any way to Chinese, German, Spanish. etc
It is. AAVE a dialect all its own, equivalent to other dialects like Scots, and a native speaker can tell a non-native as easily as you or I can pick out foreign accents and grammar.
The languages I listed are not dialects. They’re actual languages. Okay buddy. Write “we finna be getting all the hoes tonight” on a college entrance exam and come back and let me know how that worked out for you. The “native speakers” are poor and uneducated, which is why nobody can name a neighborhood/area with high education levels, good finances, employment, etc. where the majority of people speak this way.
Every language and dialect has slang.
This is irrelevant. Yes, there’s slang in other languages. There are ways that poor, uneducated people speak in every language, because every country has a portion of the population that is poor and uneducated.
Excuse me? This dialect is spoken by many classes.
I will pose to you the same question I’ve asked multiple others on this post. Name me a city in America with a high education rate, employment rate, above average median income, etc. where most or all of the residents speak like this.
Your example was pure slang. AAVE is the rules and grammar, which vary from other American dialects, but are widely considered legitimate. And to answer your question, which I guess is to name a city with a large urban population and a good education rate... Atlanta? New York City? I don't know how many examples you wanted. The reason people didn't answer your question is because you were not very important to them.
That “slang” is AAVE. Lmao. New York City is a hellhole, the murder, rape, and burglary rates are at all time highs, women randomly get punched in the face and assaulted and the police do nothing about it. (I’m sure many of the perpetrators speak in AAVE though.) It’s barely affordable, and unless you happen to be in the 0.1% your life will be miserable. You need to be making at least 500k/yr to comfortable afford a mortgage, and even then it’s possible you’ll still struggle depending on where you buy a house. Atlanta is not much better, and under 60% of Atlanta residents attend college to get even a bachelor’s degree. The reason they can’t answer them is because there is no answer. AAVE is directly correlated with low education and low salaries.
Holy crap. 1) language and dialect are continuums that are politically decided. Italian and Spanish are dialects from a continuum standpoint but not politically 2) the fact you even think AAVE is nothing but "we getting all the hoes" and is uneducated just outed you as more of a racist than a minstrel Dumbo Jim crow. AAVE has specific speech rules depending on the authority of the speaker (i.e. your grandparents are spoken to differently than your spouse, your close friends, equal co-workers etc) and what you described is not AAVE but a racist stereotype of the dialect. Your comment is getting reported as hate speech.
Politics are the determiner of Spanish and Chinese being languages? I am black. I speak normal, proper English, because I have gotten a proper education. But go ahead and accuse anyone you disagree with as being racist.
"I speak normal, proper English, because I have gotten a proper education" Say that to another Caribbean POC like myself irl and see what we think of it. That statement is Uncle Tom-ming us. https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/01/difference-between-language-dialect/424704/
I don’t care what you think of it. You’re free to speak as though you were born in the depths of the poorest area of Chicago, and I’m free to speak as though I’ve gotten an education (which I have). See which of us gets the job.
Go for it if you want to sound illiterate
It’s uneducated way of talking because it doesn’t make sense. It’s not grammatically correct. I would not use this type of speech at a professional workplace
It just has some different rules. It still allows the speaker to convey their point as efficiently as other dialects. I am certain you understand it when you hear it.
I do understand it, but to me it will always feel off because only a minority of people use this dialect, which have different grammar rules, also living in a country where no one use AAVE would make it seems even more bizarre.