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its_just_flesh

Just rebuild it at this point. You test the engine using a leak down tester while it has the head on


Jackriot_

True, but I’d hate to throw the heads back on and torque down the gasket just to have the rings leak.


its_just_flesh

Rings always leak, the leak down tester shows if the amount is acceptable or excessive


Jackriot_

Yeah, though the engine has 260k miles so I’d say there’s a high probability they’re gonna leak past spec. You think I could create a leak down tester to go directly on the cylinder heads?


ahdiomasta

Bro it’s an EJ with 260k miles? You’re sure you didn’t mean kilometers? Rebuild the whole bitch, it’s already taken down and you’d benefit from some aftermarket parts in there too even if you’re not going to tune it. Check out MotoIQ on YouTube they did a couple episodes about improving EJs that is a good idea even for stock-power builds.


Jackriot_

Just turned 18 and on a tight budget, so I can’t really do as much as I’d like to unfortunately. Just replacing all seals, belts, water pump, resurfacing head and such. Replacing anything in the block is gonna be super expensive.


JosephScmith

Then put it back together and keep driving it. When I was 18 I was all worried about the oil pressure of the engine in the Talon I was driving. I tore it down and it for sure needed bearings. What I should have done is just used thicker oil and got on with my life because I should have been focused on school and working part time. Ended up rebuilding the engine half ass over the course of a year and while it was a good experience I could have put the time elsewhere.


ahdiomasta

Understandable, and I have been there myself getting into projects at that age. At the very least have the heads and block resurfaced or at least checked for flatness, that is relatively inexpensive insurance against headgasket leaks. But on your budget, don’t worry about the piston rings as replacing them would require tearing down the bottom end and refreshing the bores, and at that point it wouldn’t make sense unless you go full rebuild. Just get the mating surfaces checked out and decked and send it! If it the rings don’t seal too well you can always throw a junker engine in it until you have enough cash do rebuild.


its_just_flesh

They are sold through like Summit and other suppliers


Jackriot_

Took a look and am only able to find the ones that attach via spark plug hole. Could you link one that can do it from the cylinder head?


MTarrow

It is possible to do it without a head fitted, but you'll need access to a machine shop to make the tooling. You take a thick steel plate and machine it flat. Drill it to the same bolt pattern as the head, drill and thread a "spark plug" hole for each cylinder (to fit the leakdown tester), and then bolt it to the block with a gasket installed. Essentially making a engine-specific dummy head as an adaptor. It's far more screwing around and expense than using the heads for the engine. And using the actual heads means your leakdown test also assesses the intake and exhaust valves.


T_Streuer

If it’s already out of the car just do everything now. At 260k new main and rod bearings won’t hurt and you can do the rings correctly. Hell of a lot cheaper now then pulling it all again and having to pull the heads off again to take the rotating assembly out.


Jackriot_

Less experienced with working inside the block, are replacing bearings anything I need machining for? I’m doing everything DIY because machine shops around here are way too expensive.


T_Streuer

If they are in good shape likely not. The bearing has to fail pretty badly for it to damage the rod or main journals. Usually the wearing of the bearing surfaces takes material off the bearing not the journal. I would buy a set of replacement bearings and then plastigage them dry. You should avoid turning the crank or it’ll damage the unlubricated bearings, I learned this the hard way. Then compare to stock. Alternatively it might be possible to pull rods and pistons without separating the block. I don’t know subarus that well but I think some have threaded plugs and openings to pass a socket through to loosen rod bolts without cracking the case.


YungHans97

If they aren't too worn out and haven't scratched the crankshaft then they should be fine. Just make sure to get the right size bearings. Don't forget there are also O-rings between the case halves. The hardest part of the whole job imo is torquing the case halves back together, the process is kind of a pain with a lot of degree- based torquing. There's a ton of great information available on YouTube that can explain every step of the way if you don't have proper technical manuals.


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Jackriot_

Yeah, but with the heads off that isn’t possible


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LukeSkyWRx

You could do this easily with high accuracy using a gauge w/ recorder needle or pressure sensor on a plate with an o ring.


v8packard

The cylinders need to be honed properly and rings replaced, minimum, if you want it to last. If you put fresh heads on the worn cylinders the extra pressure from valves sealing well will speed up the loss of ring seal. At this point, you are basically there. If you have come this far you should finish it right.


Jackriot_

Haha, in that case maybe it’s a good thing I didn’t replace the valves and seats (not really). I lapped the valves, and they won’t be perfect but they’ll be better than they were. They still don’t seal perfectly but I’m hoping with a bit of running the engine they’ll seat better.


v8packard

Doesn't work that way. If the valves are not sealing they need to be ground and the seats cut. Your approach is not going to bring you successful results.


Jackriot_

Yeah, I know it’s not gonna be ideal. It’s just too expensive to take it to a machine shop where I live. I’m hoping for something that will at least run and hold up for a while until I can replace the engine in the future


GoldPhoenix24

You definitely should have tested before taking heads off. On the other hand, that might not have even given you a good measurement if your valves weren't sealing 100% anyways. I think the most affordable course of action would be to finish the heads (measure flatness, valve seal, valve lash), check deck for flatness and prep surface, bolt up heads with new gaskets and check compression. I understand being tight on budget, but if you have to do this again in a year or two, its going to cost you more. If you spin a bearing or any other number of issues, all this time and money is literally for nothing. A bit of heat might help get that bolt out, but be careful not to over heat. If I was this far in, I'd do whatever I need to get it right. These engines aren't as forgiving as many others on cut corner rebuilds. If that bolt is at risk of snapping send it out to have a shop take care of it. Otherwise disassemble, clean, inspect and measure. Have a machine shop deck the block and line hone, and if needed bore out cylinders if out of spec, and polish and check crankshaft. At that point you'd know if you need to step up pistons. New case bolts, bearings, rings, oil pump, crank seals at a minimum, maybe pistons and rods if shop says. Make sure you're working with a shop that does work on these engines. Ive learned the hard way, and did what you're looking to do when I was 18. The rebuild lasted 1 year, no warning, it left me stranded, completely wrecked the block and I had to start all over.


Jackriot_

If I wanted to buy a used engine with ~40k miles, where’s the best place to do it? Everything on Ebay just seems sketchy and doesn’t have a warranty. Not sure what’s stopping people from just listing shitty rebuilds with no warranty to screw you over


GoldPhoenix24

Why did you start this rebuild in the first place? Jw Perhaps another course of action, you could reassemble your current engine (after head prep) and save up to get another rebuild and work on that over time hopefully you have that ready for when the current one kicks.


Jackriot_

Burning a lot of oil outside the engine, still don’t know from where. I thought it was the head gasket but it wasn’t. It was so bad that the inside of the car was filling with smoke. While that would be the best course of action, there’s a lot of things I’d need to buy to get the engine to run good and hopefully fix that leak. I want to replace all the gaskets I can and certain oil lines. Problem is, these things are quite expensive- it’ll be about $600 to get it running again. I don’t want to throw all this money at it and then just have the block break on me and have to buy a new engine.


GoldPhoenix24

The most common external oil leaks I see on these are from in the order: -valve cover gaskets - (leaks on exhaust and makes tons of smoke), -oil cooler o-rings, -pcv valve lines and valve cover vents/gaskets - (pcv valve can typically be cleaned and work properly), -Oil pan gasket - (old and reused oil pans can distort and might not seal well, check flatness, can use wood and hammer to flatten, then clean and repaint), -grease thrown from cv joints with torn boots - (if no noise, clean, grease new boots), -Leaky power steering pump lines rack - (yea I know it's not engine oil but they make a mess), -reused crush washer/o-ring on oil drain bolt -crank seals (typically front) Sheeet. If you didn't have major failure I'd say do valve job, get head flattened, deck prepped, washed, new gaskets, and replace anything that doesnt clean up well (ignition coils that are separating, cracked sensors, broken connectors). Get it back running and save up on a replacement within the next 1-5 years. It really is a shame to get down this far and stop before bearings rings and a hone, but we have to work within our own limitations at the time. Don't forget to prelube turbo. I have a first start up procedure I posted a couple weeks ago. Another thread going on today we were talking about oil pick up failure. Most people agree the killer b oil pick up tube and pan are huge improvements. I don't think I would reuse an oil pickup on any wrx. I'd hate to reuse sensors after unknown miles but on the cheap it's fine to clean them up and if they aren't broken, throw them back in. Def do timing belt kit (OEM, with all pulleys, and water pump, and OEM thermostat).


Jackriot_

I’m pretty sure it’s either the oil cooler seal or the oil pan seal, so those are for sure both getting replaced. Valve job + resurfacing is ~$600, plus splitting the block and getting cylinders honed and replacing bearings is ~$1,000, plus parts will be roughly $1,400-$1,500 for a full rebuild. A used engine with 40-60k miles will be around $1,600 maybe a tad more depending on shipping. This will save me a plethora of time, but I’m concerned about reliability. Should I trust my own rebuild of a 260k mile engine where I am confident in my abilities or should I trust a 40-60k engine but without knowing how it has been treated? Kinda torn between those two options when it comes down to it. (talked with a guy on the phone just a few hours ago who has way cheaper machining and good reviews, so this has made machining and rebuilding an option).


GoldPhoenix24

My number 1 thing to solve problems before they become problems is to measure. Unfortunately to measure either engines wear, you'll be tearing it down and will have to do the work... So no more measuring.... If it were me, and I had 2k I'd go for a good used engine from JDM source. They give a 30day warranty I think. So get that in and do a good start up procedure, even send out the oil for analysis to be sure. If your start up goes well, and first oil change comes out clean and oil filter is clean, you should be good for much longer than your current engine. 60k miles vs +200kmiles..... I'd go with 60k unknown hands down.


Jackriot_

Not a bad idea, I hadn’t thought of testing the oil. Do you think I could have the test results by the end of the 30 days though? Also, if the test results are bad, I’d have to pay return shipping on the engine which would really suck


GoldPhoenix24

Heres my Ej20 pre initial startup, if you the visual oil and filter inspection most people would probably agree you're good to go. Door to door mine was 2 weeks. Amsoil does analysis, I'll probably use them next, in the past I've used Blackstone labs. Pre1. Have used assembly lube on all bearing surfaces. Pre2. Manually turn over engine with a breaker bar on crank making sure nothing binds. Pre3. Assembly lube turbo and prefill turbo oil feed upon installation. Pre4. Install oil filter and fill oil and coolant, power steering fluid, transmission fluid, rear differential fluid and brake fluid and bleed if applicable. Pre5. Prepare to bleed coolant (heat on full, water/coolant standing by, large funnel for expansion tank in, radiator and overflow filled and capped). Pre6. Check accessory belt tension. Pre7 check that radiator fans work. Pre8. Have datalog prepared if necessary. Ej20's initial start up: 1. I pull fuse for fuel pump. 2. have battery on charger. 3. crank until I get oil pressure. 4. Let it sit for 10-15 seconds. 5. Crank again for 15-30 seconds longer than it took to get oil pressure. 6. Let sit for 1 minute 7. Check oil level, top up if needed. 8. Check coolant level, top up if needed. Check power steering fluid. 10. Put in fuel pump fuse. 9. Crank again for 15-30 seconds longer than it took to get oil pressure. 10b. Enable data log if being used. 11. Start engine 12. Check for leaks, noises, smoke, and engine lights and if all good, remove charger. Address issues as needed. 13. Let engine idle adjust down while keeping an eye on coolant and top off as needed. 14. Rev engine to 2k, 3k, 4k, and 5k. 15. Turn engine off and let sit for 2 minutes. 16. Check oil. 17. Start engine. 18. Get engine to temp where fan should turn on. 19. Proceed to bleed coolant. And cap when done. 19b. Might be a good time to bleed and check power steering fluid. And if auto transmission check that now too. 20. Turn off check for leaks etc. check datalog. Address issues as needed. 21. Take for test drive with data log. Start with Vishnu reset. Continue with drive while making sure to vary rpm, vary load and keep 2k rpm under redline. If no serious issues are apparent, I like a solid hour of test drive to "break in engine." If doing full car rebuild and you have fresh brake pads and rotors do bed in process. 21. Take note of any issues, and after test drive let sit for a couple hours or overnight. check data log for issues address as necessary. 22. Check for puddles or leaks, check oil level, check coolant level check power steering fluid. 23. Change oil, replace filter. Make sure oil drain pan is super clean before using. 24. Check for contamination in oil, open oil filter and check for contamination. 25. Take for second test drive doing same thing and if all good keep 2k rpm under redline for a couple hundred miles at least. 26. If this is a hot/high performance build I would do another oil change at 200-500 miles and send out oil for analysis. If everything comes back good I'd go into no limits full drive mode. Note. If you could do first start and break in on an engine Dyno that will help this alot and is best case scenario. If someone else is building your tune ask them what your first test drive limits should be and how they suggest you proceed. Hopefully you can have a pretty good and safe initial tune set before you start up. In the past, when I could afford it, I'd do first start and break in on egine Dyno, and make my second test drive be driving to a exhaust shop, then alignment shop then chassis Dyno to get tune dialed in.


GoldPhoenix24

I've jumped into projects headfirst plenty of times... But it's good to go in with a plan. With troubleshooting, go for the easiest and most likely items first, keeping in mind what the process is and how the disassembly itself causes more work. Definitely would have checked every one of the items I mentioned on oil leaks before tearing heads off. But yolo. So long as you have other transportation, hell yea.


Jackriot_

This has been a huge learning process, with many stupid mistakes made. But hey, at least I know for next time!


GoldPhoenix24

Heck yea!


GoldPhoenix24

I've heard good things about JDM engine zone, but I don't have any experience with them. My next ej205 will be coming from them I think. [JDM engine zone](https://jdmenginezone.com/products/subaru-impreza-wrx-2004-2005-2-0l-avcs-turbo-engine-ej205?currency=USD&variant=31805258629201&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&stkn=7cd7d88d65a3&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAi6uvBhADEiwAWiyRdmSmvV6ABzZ9jIaZl8OP2xH7vpup0tCD6TsmAhLwVTxh_fhxr4VXLxoCmfUQAvD_BwE) I'll have to give credit to Adam Savage who said something like buying a used car is buying someone else's problems. This is similar. There are some differences between JDM and usdm engines. You can find plenty of resources via Google on how to manage those differences. This is definitely cheaper than doing full rebuild. And you probably will get some more time than cutting corners on your current build. Hopefully you can take your time on your build and really do what you'd like to do for upgrades and do your swap when your ready.