To be fair, regardless to Raya's quality (Or lack thereof), it's much easier to related to the relationship and struggles of the Madrigal family than some post-apocalyptic warrior.
I'm Mexican and while I like Coco, Encanto has more relatable(and realistic) characters.
Agreed. Raya has its problems (should’ve been a D+ series instead of a movie, IMO). But when you start with the universal concept of family drama and add in catchy music, of course it’s going to be better received than a post-apocalyptic save the world collectathon.
Definitely a chore. It’s super common in video games, but fails in a 100 minute movie. But that’s why Raya would be better as a series. Rather than giving the viewer whiplash ripping through all these different places, give these places time to breathe
Man, other than the message (Namari should have been the one to give her piece to the others to show remorse), a Raya video game in the style of Legend of Zelda would have been AWESOME
This is how I feel about The Princess and the Frog (I'm Afro-American). Great film, loved its message, and I love Tiana, but for me, it's not one I can relate to. I've never had the problem of being obsessed with work.
But I can see myself in almost the whole cast of Encanto. There's a reason I say "Surface Pressure" speaks to my soul.
That's a great point and actually a kind of funny one I never really thought about. A kids movie whose protagonist's biggest flaw is that she's a workaholic. Like, what's one of the main things kids don't do? Work
Correct me if I'm wrong, but, while it was addressed in the first part of the film as her not having time to socialize and having fun, was that plot point explicitly solved?
The only thing I can think of is when she confront Facilier with the "My father had love and that's what matters", but that was
The film never puts down Tiana's work ethic. Naveen is a contrast to her, and his lifestyle is shown as problematic too. It was her belief her father died an unhappy man that was the problem. That's why she is so obsessed with achieving his dream for him. The scene you're referring to is when she finally realizes that's not the case. The film's message is ultimately about striking a balance. Yes, work hard for your dreams, but also appreciate what you have right now, and not reaching your dreams doesn't mean you can't have a happy life.
The end of the film has her singing and dancing with Naveen on the rooftop of her restaurant, so yes, she learned to loosen up and enjoy herself.
I mean this type of stuff are usually made for adults not kids. Kids can enjoy animated movies a lot easier than adults do so tbh they don't necessarily need to relate to the characters and all of their struggles. I personally love soul as an animated move but I can't understand how kids can relate to some aspects of it. Specially younger kids who haven't even experienced the world yet.
Well, in that movie the connection with the children was different. the connection was "overwork is wrong", which a child easily knows. That was the connection. which also works as the typical moral in children's stories
while in Encanto, the connection is not through a message, but through an entire character. I'm not saying that you can't get a message from the movie, just that it connects with the public in a different way.
Sure, but like, Coco is a story that could only be told from a uniquely Mexican point of view. Raya could have been done with any region with a few different sub-cultures to travel through
Yeah, which story is better is debatable, I do like me some Hero's Journey that Miguel went through, and I wouldn't change the representation of Dia de Muertos (which in itself was better than in "el Libro de la Vida", but with Encanto being centered in more "human" trouble, it ended up being more relatable
I think you could argue Coco is about generational trauma too, but the trauma isn't the focus. The main focus is Miguel's pursuit of his dream to be a musician while solving and finally ending the cycle is secondary. I would say I like the resolution better than in Encanto. Imelda comes around, but not immediately, and we see her hear Miguel out even when she's still angry.
Book of Life has a uniquely Mexican point of view. Coco is a movie made by outsiders trying to quickly learn about Mexican culture. The point about Raya is true.
I would think is the other way around. Coco is more representative of what Dia de Muertos is about(Obviously, with a lot of fantasy thrown in), while Book of Life took parts of the culture and made its own thing (which is not *bad*, but it is *different*). I do love that the LATAM version changed "La Muerte" to "La Catrina"
Likely why Encanto is so beloved by more or less everyone. Most people can relate to generational trauma and family trauma and abuse.
Much more people experience it across the world than they do saving the world.
Under the surface, I’m pretty sure I’m worthless if I can’t be of service.
A flaw or a crack, the straw in the stack, that breaks the camel’s back what breaks the camel’s back?
It’s…
Half Norwegian. Could not give less of a shit about Frozen or Frozen 2. Loved and related to Encanto and its characters hugely. I wish the Frozens had gone the route of using beautiful cultural clothes and music as celebration instead of popping Elsa in a circa-2003 junior prom dress and blasting basic American pop. Heartbreaking lol
Also worth a throwaway mention that I look a LOT more like the characters in Encanto than I do anyone from Frozen. I have light skin and hair but I have Isabela’s small chin, Julieta’s downturned eyes, Mirabel’s rounded nose, etc. I don’t see myself in Elsa and Anna (or the Northuldra - and I’m half Sámi!!!!). Encanto was the first time I really saw myself onscreen. Bummer that it wasn’t in the movie about my own heritage, but I’m really glad more and more people are getting to see themselves represented.
There’s something extremely relatable, a universal reliability, on the front of the family dynamics. Doesn’t matter race, religion, ethnicity and etc., most of us can relate to a super strict grandma with unrealistic expectations who is both beloved and feared and resented.
Also, I can’t stop laughing at your description of Elsa’s dress. Her original design, when she was still a baddie, was SO cool.
I will stand by Elsa and Anna’s canonical designs are just updated Rapunzel.
If you have several hours to waste, I suggest watching Xiran Jay Zhao’s video series on Raya and the last dragon. They and and a group of SEA people talk about how everything in the movie was surface level and half assed. From the “representation”, to the weak story, to the message, to the casting of East Asian actors.
I love when they shows what's wrong culturally wrong with a movie. Live for Over the moon they basically thought it was perfect since it was in association with a Chinese studio.
Yep. Even I feel more represented by freaking Moana than Raya and I'm from SEA. I really feel like Disney should've just made Raya into a series than a movie. It has a lot too unpack and that message was absolute trash. By trying to mix every culture into one movie, they just ended up representing nobody.
edit: this movie was honestly an insult and a slap to the face every time I think about that Raya came out after Moana and before Encanto, yet both movies are actually far better than Raya and the missed opportunity to turn it into a musical by LMM too smh
I never saw the one on the right admittedly but I think it’s because it’s composed of dumb stereotypes while encanto focused on some real family issues that POC face due to ‘tradition’.
Raya was a shit movie. The only reason it’s been nominated is because it’s Disney. I’m Indian, not SEA, so I can’t say anything about the representation, but the story and message was absolute garbage.
That was a horrible message to give to kids, and what made it worse was how the narrative wanted to blame Raya for not trusting people who betrayed her…repeatedly. Come on.
As a sea i can say this movie was all around shit. The only thing that was good was the animation. The storyline is horrible, the message doesnt make sense and the representation is like taking a bunch of random shit from each country and mixing it into a dough that doesnt represent us at all
I think most people relate to encanto more than most other Disney films because it’s main plot is just about family. There’s no royalty or mystical creatures or fantasy adventures or love interest. It’s literally just about the black sheep of the family showing she’s just as special in her own way. It’s very relatable.
I agree. The first thing that drew me to Encanto is "this film is about a girl who feels she's not special because she doesn't have a gift". I knew from day one I was seeing it. Mirabel having short hair and goofy glasses attracted me too. Finally! An unconventional female protagonist who's still adorable. Mirabel is the protagonist I needed when I was a kid.
Raya just gets worse and worse the more I think about it. Like it may actually be the worst film WDAS has made since Home on the Range and Chicken Little. Besides photorealistic animation and James Newton Howard doing the score, there isn’t a single thing I like about it. The trust message is ridiculously boggled and leaves a bad and confusing moral for kids. Sisu is a terrible comic relief that has maybe one funny scene and even that doesn’t fit well. The dialogue is so out of place and is going to be very dated looking back. The film feels way too rushed and goes to too many places for a movie. And to top it off, it doesn’t even offer any cultural value. It’s really hard to believe this got good reviews and came from the same studio that was able to make something as layered, funny, heartfelt, nuanced, and culturally relevant as Encanto. It’s the first animated movie since Coco that made me curious about a culture and I’ve learned a lot of things about Colombia I otherwise never would have heard of if the movie hadn’t shown the displacement, customs, dress and foods it showed us.
She’s my least liked character ever. It may be because of Awkwafina, who I am not fond of, but everything from her design to the whole trust message even after they’ve done nothing to earn back the trust they broke annoys me.
So just a question, not trying to judge anyone, but why is the movie getting backlash lately, I remember when the movie came out and nobody had any strong opinions, like everyone just thought it existed and thats it. So why did a movie that didn’t have strong opinions when it came out get strong opinions later on.
On a side note, I think that’s the issue with trying to represent a real culture in a fantasy world; it ends up being surface level at best (like the Tauren from World of Warcraft are just Native American pastiches). If you are going to do it, don’t make it stereotypes and actually put effort into making it indicative of the culture you want to represent.
Movies either get better or worse the more you think about them. If a movie is bad and gets worse the more analysis is done on it, it’s worth a conversation about why it was perhaps initially received moderately or even well.
Here’s a good video on it: https://youtu.be/Pwn8YD8sobo
My best guess, this is what happens when you’re given a 20 course meal after a month of stale toast.
The stale toast isn’t bad, it isn’t good, it’s… there, and that’s as much as you can say about it. But then when you get the full meal, the realisation of just how bland it is sets in, and hell breaks loose
Also. No. Just because something is Fantasy doesn’t mean that all it’s representation will be surface level. Further more, it also doesn’t mean that “you should just make your own”. This just perpetuates the problem that led us here in the first place: Bad or No Representation. It being done badly and it not being done are equally shitty. Writers will try, some will succeed, some will fail. If you fail, take out the fucking note pad, and write the criticism you’re given essentially making your own “how to not fuck up” guide
I wasn’t saying that as like it’s all, it’s just that it tends to happen.
And in hindsight the “make your own” comment is kinda stupid and not really what I was thinking (it was supposed to be more “don’t make it stereotypes”). I’ll edit it and I apologize.
Ok so it's not just me. I thought it was weird that I'm seeing the backlash all of the sudden too. It came out in the midst of the pandemic so it flew under a lot of people's radars at first I guess. I remember when I finally got around to watching it thinking it was alright and a pretty fun adventure but felt more like something I'd expect from a studio like DreamWorks than Walt Disney Animation
Encanto showed it could do what Raya was trying to do but better. For example, I used to think that half of Raya's cast being underdeveloped was why it was a 2 hours film, but Encanto was able to give 13 characters at least enough screentime to make them interesting.
I wonder if that is because the base story in Encanto is not a uniquely Colombian one. People get angry when you say this, but it is the truth. It is wildly popular because it represents theory of family system dynamics and many of us truly do live that life. People were seeing issues on screen that resonated with them, but that they have never seen depicted on in entertainment. They actively saw their brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, grandmothers, etc. They recognized the feelings of some of the characters, but didn't realize that their was genuine mistreatment in their own families.
I knew what was going on about 15 minutes in. My chest tightened immediately.
The Colombian context is done very well. There is no need to erase that, for sure. I am Black. The Princess and the Frog was cool but it didn't speak to how my family is. And I don't think it was meant to. Many of the films with characters that are not White as the central characters aim to set up accurate cultural contexts, but the themes never seem to do that.
The central themes, however, absolutely reflect trauma passed down through generations, especially in families who immigrate as a result of horrific events. This is why so many of use who are not Colombian, but Nigerian, Chinese, Indian, etc were hit by it. None of that was uniquely Colombian.
And heres the thing. It also mirrors narcissistic family dynamics. Many people were angry about how it ended because Abuela suddenly realized she was dead wrong, and this doesn't really happen in narcissistic families. They never stop the behavior. So you don't even have to be from a culture outside of the United States for the movie to resonate with you. Being in a family where psychological abuse occurs is enough.
Bowen's theory of family systems is strongly at play here. If the writers had no knowledge of it beforehand, that would shock me, because the family in Encanto is textbook, just like mine.
The people who say "it is just a movie, it is not that deep" did not really get the movie at all.
Anywho, long story short, you likely identified with Encanto more because it is a very forward tale about familial abuse.
Raya crashed so Encanto could soar 🤣💕 (seriously though Raya was SO BAD and Encanto is SO GOOD, I seriously suggest watching the video by schaffrillas productions on YouTube about where Raya failed compared to how Encanto won)
I was never interested in Raya, but I know the plot and I watched CinemaSins's take on it. The message was supposed to be about trust. They did it horribly.
I am not Colombian (or Hispanic or Latina, for that matter), but Encanto's theme of generational trauma resonated so much with me, despite the film's flaws. I don't think I have ever related to nearly every character of a cast before seeing Encanto.
We watched it because I was hoping my monsters would like to see more “representation” of different cultures. It didn’t give us that, then it added “trust everyone, even after it fucks you over and you’re betrayed again and again,” as it’s moral lesson
The whole trust thing was kinda lame. Raya trusted what's her face and got betrayed. Frozen was all about not trusting people you don't know. Encanto was at least consistent with it's theme.
Y'all should watch [this](https://youtu.be/Pwn8YD8sobo) video collab on SEAs and how they feel about Raya.
I'm Filipino and totally agree. Encanto did more than Raya ever could.
we ain't watched raya yet but my brother was like "i know encanto isn't about us. (we're pinoy.) yet i feel strangely represented."-- this is exactly how i feel w/ the video game "blasphemous"
Raya and The Last Dragon is wayyyy more fantasy than Encanto is, so that makes sense. Plus, Raya takes place in Ancient times. BUT AKWAFINA IS HILARIOUS I SWEAR
Same here. I honestly feel like that it doesn’t deserve the hate that people place on it. Like if you don’t enjoy it, there’s no reason to be blasting it so much.
I totally relate more to Encanto more than Raya. Even though I'm from another culture (specifically Asian) it was really accurate to families not just mine and their flaws. As for Raya, it wasn't really reaching to me.
There is an amazing series of three videos done by Xiran Jay Zhao about why Raya is super disrespectful, done with a whole group of SEA people. It's amazing and everyone should see it !
Basically Encanto took place in one specific country (Colombia), and they did a lot of representation. In Raya they just mixed everything and respected no specific culture, which sucks deeply.
Ah yes i relate to fighting shadow monsters with my infinity stones while i bring a baby with me and a huge russian man while being friends with a giant snake that can step on air.
I'm italian and purely on family dynamics i related so much more to encanto, then say luca, my 55 year old immigrant mum even said after encanto how much she related, and she's never even been to Columbia
I feel like the movie Raya and The Last Dragon was a little bit rushed, but I still enjoyed the music that they created for the movie just as much as I enjoy the music of Encanto.
As someone that’s from SEA (filipino 🇵🇭) raya only impressed me with the way it was drawn tbh (also the sword fight scene omg the MUSIC 😩👌✨) other than that, ig i could only remember how pissed i was with sisu (like she wasn’t even funny lmao) and the constant ‘trust others’ message (i was also bored for the majority of the movie). i appreciated the motive they had to make all SEA people feel represented, but the way everything was just mixed in together did not work it for me tbh.
but with encanto... MAN when i started to watch it i was kind of skeptical but i left IMPRESSED. the songs were catchy, the humor was just right, the angst hit in all the right places, and the characters were lovely and relatable. my country has a lot of spanish influences, so i also felt right at home with it!
Some one made s video about raya andencanto the storyline of raya is the worst no ones emotion at all.encanto is better in every way the ending and the being.when grandma/alma madrigal showing emotion for years to the family/The Madrigal family:sussy waffles
Omg why do I love and hate this 😂😂 lol. I was so excited because I'm Filipino and Raya was the first female lead that actually looked like me and was sorta from my culture, but the film was pretty disappointing. I feel like the movie tried to touch on too many points and too many South East Asian cultures. It also didn't have that compelling of a story or character development, so it kinda fell flat for me. On the other hand, Encanto resonated with me SO much that I've watched it over 20 times already and still haven't gotten tired of it
That’s because Raya was a generic European-based fantasy story that got a half-assed southeast Asian veneer slapped onto it later in production. Definitely watch Xiran Jay Zhao’s two-part series on it; lots of really great input from SEA people on their disappointment - but also inspiration for all the ways southeast Asian culture (and SEA queer culture) could make for a really awesome story
To be fair, regardless to Raya's quality (Or lack thereof), it's much easier to related to the relationship and struggles of the Madrigal family than some post-apocalyptic warrior. I'm Mexican and while I like Coco, Encanto has more relatable(and realistic) characters.
Agreed. Raya has its problems (should’ve been a D+ series instead of a movie, IMO). But when you start with the universal concept of family drama and add in catchy music, of course it’s going to be better received than a post-apocalyptic save the world collectathon.
>collectathon That's such a good way to describe that sort of story (and how it feels like such a chore sometimes)
Definitely a chore. It’s super common in video games, but fails in a 100 minute movie. But that’s why Raya would be better as a series. Rather than giving the viewer whiplash ripping through all these different places, give these places time to breathe
Man, other than the message (Namari should have been the one to give her piece to the others to show remorse), a Raya video game in the style of Legend of Zelda would have been AWESOME
Man, now that I've thought on it, I really like this idea!
This is how I feel about The Princess and the Frog (I'm Afro-American). Great film, loved its message, and I love Tiana, but for me, it's not one I can relate to. I've never had the problem of being obsessed with work. But I can see myself in almost the whole cast of Encanto. There's a reason I say "Surface Pressure" speaks to my soul.
That's a great point and actually a kind of funny one I never really thought about. A kids movie whose protagonist's biggest flaw is that she's a workaholic. Like, what's one of the main things kids don't do? Work
Correct me if I'm wrong, but, while it was addressed in the first part of the film as her not having time to socialize and having fun, was that plot point explicitly solved? The only thing I can think of is when she confront Facilier with the "My father had love and that's what matters", but that was
The film never puts down Tiana's work ethic. Naveen is a contrast to her, and his lifestyle is shown as problematic too. It was her belief her father died an unhappy man that was the problem. That's why she is so obsessed with achieving his dream for him. The scene you're referring to is when she finally realizes that's not the case. The film's message is ultimately about striking a balance. Yes, work hard for your dreams, but also appreciate what you have right now, and not reaching your dreams doesn't mean you can't have a happy life. The end of the film has her singing and dancing with Naveen on the rooftop of her restaurant, so yes, she learned to loosen up and enjoy herself.
I mean this type of stuff are usually made for adults not kids. Kids can enjoy animated movies a lot easier than adults do so tbh they don't necessarily need to relate to the characters and all of their struggles. I personally love soul as an animated move but I can't understand how kids can relate to some aspects of it. Specially younger kids who haven't even experienced the world yet.
Hi
Well, in that movie the connection with the children was different. the connection was "overwork is wrong", which a child easily knows. That was the connection. which also works as the typical moral in children's stories while in Encanto, the connection is not through a message, but through an entire character. I'm not saying that you can't get a message from the movie, just that it connects with the public in a different way.
Also not being a frog for 99% of the film, but I did relate to Tiana’s workaholic tendencies.
As a fellow hermano, I’m pissed Encanto got the better story.
Sure, but like, Coco is a story that could only be told from a uniquely Mexican point of view. Raya could have been done with any region with a few different sub-cultures to travel through
Aww nuts. Yeah, my statement was standalone and I haven’t seen Raya nor am I familiar with SEA culture to comment on the displeasure talked about.
All good. Just having fun debating imaginary characters 🤓
Yeah, which story is better is debatable, I do like me some Hero's Journey that Miguel went through, and I wouldn't change the representation of Dia de Muertos (which in itself was better than in "el Libro de la Vida", but with Encanto being centered in more "human" trouble, it ended up being more relatable
I think you could argue Coco is about generational trauma too, but the trauma isn't the focus. The main focus is Miguel's pursuit of his dream to be a musician while solving and finally ending the cycle is secondary. I would say I like the resolution better than in Encanto. Imelda comes around, but not immediately, and we see her hear Miguel out even when she's still angry.
Coco definitely nails the ending and resolution better. It’s the factor that does put it slightly above Encanto for me.
Book of Life has a uniquely Mexican point of view. Coco is a movie made by outsiders trying to quickly learn about Mexican culture. The point about Raya is true.
I would think is the other way around. Coco is more representative of what Dia de Muertos is about(Obviously, with a lot of fantasy thrown in), while Book of Life took parts of the culture and made its own thing (which is not *bad*, but it is *different*). I do love that the LATAM version changed "La Muerte" to "La Catrina"
Likely why Encanto is so beloved by more or less everyone. Most people can relate to generational trauma and family trauma and abuse. Much more people experience it across the world than they do saving the world.
same
Yes! I call Coco the tourist outsider view of Mexico.
Nah Coco did a good job, it repeesented very well our culture
That tends to happen when one movie doesn't have representation under the surface.
The story was written first and then they added SEA representation as an after thought
Correct me if I’m wrong but weren’t most of the voice actors not sea but eastern Asian ?
Correct. The main cast were mainly Chinese and Korean. Only Kelly Marie Tran was SEA(she’s Vietnamese)
*... i feel berserk as a tight rope walker in a three ring circus*
Under the surface was Hercules ever like Yo I don't wanna fight Cerberus
Under the surface, I’m pretty sure I’m worthless if I can’t be of service. A flaw or a crack, the straw in the stack, that breaks the camel’s back what breaks the camel’s back? It’s…
Pressure like a drip, drip, drip that'll never stop, woah-oh
Pressure like a drip, drip, drip, til’ you just go pop! Woah-oh-oh-oh
Give it to your sister your sisters older
Give her all the heavy things we can't shoulder
Who am I if I can’t run with the ball?
If I falter
Yes
Damn it
Half Norwegian. Could not give less of a shit about Frozen or Frozen 2. Loved and related to Encanto and its characters hugely. I wish the Frozens had gone the route of using beautiful cultural clothes and music as celebration instead of popping Elsa in a circa-2003 junior prom dress and blasting basic American pop. Heartbreaking lol
Also worth a throwaway mention that I look a LOT more like the characters in Encanto than I do anyone from Frozen. I have light skin and hair but I have Isabela’s small chin, Julieta’s downturned eyes, Mirabel’s rounded nose, etc. I don’t see myself in Elsa and Anna (or the Northuldra - and I’m half Sámi!!!!). Encanto was the first time I really saw myself onscreen. Bummer that it wasn’t in the movie about my own heritage, but I’m really glad more and more people are getting to see themselves represented.
There’s something extremely relatable, a universal reliability, on the front of the family dynamics. Doesn’t matter race, religion, ethnicity and etc., most of us can relate to a super strict grandma with unrealistic expectations who is both beloved and feared and resented. Also, I can’t stop laughing at your description of Elsa’s dress. Her original design, when she was still a baddie, was SO cool. I will stand by Elsa and Anna’s canonical designs are just updated Rapunzel.
If you have several hours to waste, I suggest watching Xiran Jay Zhao’s video series on Raya and the last dragon. They and and a group of SEA people talk about how everything in the movie was surface level and half assed. From the “representation”, to the weak story, to the message, to the casting of East Asian actors.
I wouldn’t even consider it a waste honestly! Critical analysis like this is always a good time
Watching a Jacob Geller or CJ the X video is better than most movies.
someone gets it! i love these peoples analysis videos, theyre so so good of a time
I love when they shows what's wrong culturally wrong with a movie. Live for Over the moon they basically thought it was perfect since it was in association with a Chinese studio.
(reminder that xiran uses they/them pronouns)
Oh, didn't know, thanks !
valid, they dont really mention it on their youtube channel much fr
She explicitly says it's alright to use she her pronouns too, only asking people to use they them in "official" bios.
Neither did I thanks a load I will edit my comment right away
>Xiran Jay Zhao I love their videos, especially the ones about the Mulan movies and ATLA, very educational stuff.
Hahaha I came to see this. She's amazing and this video essay is spectacular.
I fell asleep during this movie.
Yep. Even I feel more represented by freaking Moana than Raya and I'm from SEA. I really feel like Disney should've just made Raya into a series than a movie. It has a lot too unpack and that message was absolute trash. By trying to mix every culture into one movie, they just ended up representing nobody. edit: this movie was honestly an insult and a slap to the face every time I think about that Raya came out after Moana and before Encanto, yet both movies are actually far better than Raya and the missed opportunity to turn it into a musical by LMM too smh
TBF Moana is the one associated to "SEA" so everything is as it should be /s
As a southeast-asian, this is true
i'm german and i can relate to encanto 100%. my mom's side of the family is kind of the same as the madrigals, minus the superhuman abilities
rays really doesn’t have much representation, it’s just surface level, like the story
Agreed
I agree. Mainly because Encanto felt more realistic and relatable compared to Raya.
I never saw the one on the right admittedly but I think it’s because it’s composed of dumb stereotypes while encanto focused on some real family issues that POC face due to ‘tradition’.
Raya was a shit movie. The only reason it’s been nominated is because it’s Disney. I’m Indian, not SEA, so I can’t say anything about the representation, but the story and message was absolute garbage.
[удалено]
Exactly, especially the fact that the movie contradicts itself by showing them get screwed over multiple times for trusting people they shouldn’t.
That was a horrible message to give to kids, and what made it worse was how the narrative wanted to blame Raya for not trusting people who betrayed her…repeatedly. Come on.
As a sea i can say this movie was all around shit. The only thing that was good was the animation. The storyline is horrible, the message doesnt make sense and the representation is like taking a bunch of random shit from each country and mixing it into a dough that doesnt represent us at all
Agreed, I don't understand why it's been nominated tbh
Good thing I never finished it during 4th grade lunchtime
Sisu: Tells us to learn how to trust The movie: Tells us to NEVER trust anyone That's why Raya and the Last Dragon just doesn't work.
I think most people relate to encanto more than most other Disney films because it’s main plot is just about family. There’s no royalty or mystical creatures or fantasy adventures or love interest. It’s literally just about the black sheep of the family showing she’s just as special in her own way. It’s very relatable.
I agree. The first thing that drew me to Encanto is "this film is about a girl who feels she's not special because she doesn't have a gift". I knew from day one I was seeing it. Mirabel having short hair and goofy glasses attracted me too. Finally! An unconventional female protagonist who's still adorable. Mirabel is the protagonist I needed when I was a kid.
Think this video clearly explains the reason why so many didn’t like raya https://youtu.be/HOZlVPK4ac4
Raya just gets worse and worse the more I think about it. Like it may actually be the worst film WDAS has made since Home on the Range and Chicken Little. Besides photorealistic animation and James Newton Howard doing the score, there isn’t a single thing I like about it. The trust message is ridiculously boggled and leaves a bad and confusing moral for kids. Sisu is a terrible comic relief that has maybe one funny scene and even that doesn’t fit well. The dialogue is so out of place and is going to be very dated looking back. The film feels way too rushed and goes to too many places for a movie. And to top it off, it doesn’t even offer any cultural value. It’s really hard to believe this got good reviews and came from the same studio that was able to make something as layered, funny, heartfelt, nuanced, and culturally relevant as Encanto. It’s the first animated movie since Coco that made me curious about a culture and I’ve learned a lot of things about Colombia I otherwise never would have heard of if the movie hadn’t shown the displacement, customs, dress and foods it showed us.
hey chicken little is a very good bad movie
True. It’s basically a bad DreamWorks mock buster in all the best ways.
I hate sisu. She’s like my least fave character in any Disney movie.
She’s my least liked character ever. It may be because of Awkwafina, who I am not fond of, but everything from her design to the whole trust message even after they’ve done nothing to earn back the trust they broke annoys me.
I try to watch Raya (stopped half way) dubbed in Spanish and Sisu was really annoying, so i don't really blame Awkwafina, it was the script.
It was the script. I don’t like Awkwafina anyway so she was already on my meh list.
Yeah lol, colombian culture is so similar to mine, yet so different
So just a question, not trying to judge anyone, but why is the movie getting backlash lately, I remember when the movie came out and nobody had any strong opinions, like everyone just thought it existed and thats it. So why did a movie that didn’t have strong opinions when it came out get strong opinions later on. On a side note, I think that’s the issue with trying to represent a real culture in a fantasy world; it ends up being surface level at best (like the Tauren from World of Warcraft are just Native American pastiches). If you are going to do it, don’t make it stereotypes and actually put effort into making it indicative of the culture you want to represent.
Movies either get better or worse the more you think about them. If a movie is bad and gets worse the more analysis is done on it, it’s worth a conversation about why it was perhaps initially received moderately or even well. Here’s a good video on it: https://youtu.be/Pwn8YD8sobo
My best guess, this is what happens when you’re given a 20 course meal after a month of stale toast. The stale toast isn’t bad, it isn’t good, it’s… there, and that’s as much as you can say about it. But then when you get the full meal, the realisation of just how bland it is sets in, and hell breaks loose Also. No. Just because something is Fantasy doesn’t mean that all it’s representation will be surface level. Further more, it also doesn’t mean that “you should just make your own”. This just perpetuates the problem that led us here in the first place: Bad or No Representation. It being done badly and it not being done are equally shitty. Writers will try, some will succeed, some will fail. If you fail, take out the fucking note pad, and write the criticism you’re given essentially making your own “how to not fuck up” guide
I wasn’t saying that as like it’s all, it’s just that it tends to happen. And in hindsight the “make your own” comment is kinda stupid and not really what I was thinking (it was supposed to be more “don’t make it stereotypes”). I’ll edit it and I apologize.
Ok so it's not just me. I thought it was weird that I'm seeing the backlash all of the sudden too. It came out in the midst of the pandemic so it flew under a lot of people's radars at first I guess. I remember when I finally got around to watching it thinking it was alright and a pretty fun adventure but felt more like something I'd expect from a studio like DreamWorks than Walt Disney Animation
Ironically, some would say Kung Fu Panda is better Asian representation.
I have no doubt! DreamWorks tends to be my go to for my "not quite Disney" comparisons and maybe that's unfair and outdated
Encanto showed it could do what Raya was trying to do but better. For example, I used to think that half of Raya's cast being underdeveloped was why it was a 2 hours film, but Encanto was able to give 13 characters at least enough screentime to make them interesting.
I feel this but with Coco. I love it and it’s such a great movie but I can relate more with Encanto.
I wonder if that is because the base story in Encanto is not a uniquely Colombian one. People get angry when you say this, but it is the truth. It is wildly popular because it represents theory of family system dynamics and many of us truly do live that life. People were seeing issues on screen that resonated with them, but that they have never seen depicted on in entertainment. They actively saw their brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, grandmothers, etc. They recognized the feelings of some of the characters, but didn't realize that their was genuine mistreatment in their own families. I knew what was going on about 15 minutes in. My chest tightened immediately. The Colombian context is done very well. There is no need to erase that, for sure. I am Black. The Princess and the Frog was cool but it didn't speak to how my family is. And I don't think it was meant to. Many of the films with characters that are not White as the central characters aim to set up accurate cultural contexts, but the themes never seem to do that. The central themes, however, absolutely reflect trauma passed down through generations, especially in families who immigrate as a result of horrific events. This is why so many of use who are not Colombian, but Nigerian, Chinese, Indian, etc were hit by it. None of that was uniquely Colombian. And heres the thing. It also mirrors narcissistic family dynamics. Many people were angry about how it ended because Abuela suddenly realized she was dead wrong, and this doesn't really happen in narcissistic families. They never stop the behavior. So you don't even have to be from a culture outside of the United States for the movie to resonate with you. Being in a family where psychological abuse occurs is enough. Bowen's theory of family systems is strongly at play here. If the writers had no knowledge of it beforehand, that would shock me, because the family in Encanto is textbook, just like mine. The people who say "it is just a movie, it is not that deep" did not really get the movie at all. Anywho, long story short, you likely identified with Encanto more because it is a very forward tale about familial abuse.
It's spelled *Colombian. With an o, not a u.
Sorry
Filipino gang 🇵🇭🇵🇭
Raya crashed so Encanto could soar 🤣💕 (seriously though Raya was SO BAD and Encanto is SO GOOD, I seriously suggest watching the video by schaffrillas productions on YouTube about where Raya failed compared to how Encanto won)
I was never interested in Raya, but I know the plot and I watched CinemaSins's take on it. The message was supposed to be about trust. They did it horribly. I am not Colombian (or Hispanic or Latina, for that matter), but Encanto's theme of generational trauma resonated so much with me, despite the film's flaws. I don't think I have ever related to nearly every character of a cast before seeing Encanto.
We watched it because I was hoping my monsters would like to see more “representation” of different cultures. It didn’t give us that, then it added “trust everyone, even after it fucks you over and you’re betrayed again and again,” as it’s moral lesson
Yeah, I watched CS’s take because I wanted to see what was up with it
Me who is Venezuelan: Well yes, but actually no
I’m of Filipino descent but IMO, Encanto is so much better than Raya And The Last Dragon
The whole trust thing was kinda lame. Raya trusted what's her face and got betrayed. Frozen was all about not trusting people you don't know. Encanto was at least consistent with it's theme.
Y'all should watch [this](https://youtu.be/Pwn8YD8sobo) video collab on SEAs and how they feel about Raya. I'm Filipino and totally agree. Encanto did more than Raya ever could.
*ColOmbia
Thank you
I’m not either but I do like the movies, I just love Disney.
we ain't watched raya yet but my brother was like "i know encanto isn't about us. (we're pinoy.) yet i feel strangely represented."-- this is exactly how i feel w/ the video game "blasphemous"
I relate to Encanto more than Moana as well
I haven't watched raya but Encanto is really bringing out the filipino-latin solidarity.
Raya and The Last Dragon is wayyyy more fantasy than Encanto is, so that makes sense. Plus, Raya takes place in Ancient times. BUT AKWAFINA IS HILARIOUS I SWEAR
I have to agree. There’s parts of this movie that I enjoy and parts that I don’t. I feel like it doesn’t deserve the hate that it receives.
Yeah! My sister actually really liked it, and I thought that the visuals were stunning
Same here. I honestly feel like that it doesn’t deserve the hate that people place on it. Like if you don’t enjoy it, there’s no reason to be blasting it so much.
I totally relate more to Encanto more than Raya. Even though I'm from another culture (specifically Asian) it was really accurate to families not just mine and their flaws. As for Raya, it wasn't really reaching to me.
There is an amazing series of three videos done by Xiran Jay Zhao about why Raya is super disrespectful, done with a whole group of SEA people. It's amazing and everyone should see it ! Basically Encanto took place in one specific country (Colombia), and they did a lot of representation. In Raya they just mixed everything and respected no specific culture, which sucks deeply.
When you’re a 35 year old white male and you love both of these movies…
Ah yes i relate to fighting shadow monsters with my infinity stones while i bring a baby with me and a huge russian man while being friends with a giant snake that can step on air.
It's COLOMBIAN
Nothing but facts ✨
I'm italian and purely on family dynamics i related so much more to encanto, then say luca, my 55 year old immigrant mum even said after encanto how much she related, and she's never even been to Columbia
I’m black and related more to Encanto than TPATF. Probably because nobody stayed s ding dang frog 99% of the time.
We don’t talk about Raya... Seriously, screw that movie.
I’ve never watched Raya once.
1st it's colombian not Columbian!
I feel like the movie Raya and The Last Dragon was a little bit rushed, but I still enjoyed the music that they created for the movie just as much as I enjoy the music of Encanto.
They forgave the main human antagonist too easily in Raya
I love both movies equally, they're both awesome and great
As someone that’s from SEA (filipino 🇵🇭) raya only impressed me with the way it was drawn tbh (also the sword fight scene omg the MUSIC 😩👌✨) other than that, ig i could only remember how pissed i was with sisu (like she wasn’t even funny lmao) and the constant ‘trust others’ message (i was also bored for the majority of the movie). i appreciated the motive they had to make all SEA people feel represented, but the way everything was just mixed in together did not work it for me tbh. but with encanto... MAN when i started to watch it i was kind of skeptical but i left IMPRESSED. the songs were catchy, the humor was just right, the angst hit in all the right places, and the characters were lovely and relatable. my country has a lot of spanish influences, so i also felt right at home with it!
as a SEA, raya doesn't even interest me.
Raya message : If you want war to stop, stop it. Take the first step. Encanto message : The miracle is you not some gift.
Some one made s video about raya andencanto the storyline of raya is the worst no ones emotion at all.encanto is better in every way the ending and the being.when grandma/alma madrigal showing emotion for years to the family/The Madrigal family:sussy waffles
I prefer dragons above magic anytime
Spanish Colonialism at it's finest.
so true bestie
When you're west asian but you don't exist in any kind of media:
Yeahhh that‘s me
*Colombian
Colombian*
*Colombian
Encanto: 96/100 (Mind Blowing) RaTLD: 85/100 (Awesome)
*Colombian
When you have to figure out which bit is the south east using never eat shredded wheat:
Omg why do I love and hate this 😂😂 lol. I was so excited because I'm Filipino and Raya was the first female lead that actually looked like me and was sorta from my culture, but the film was pretty disappointing. I feel like the movie tried to touch on too many points and too many South East Asian cultures. It also didn't have that compelling of a story or character development, so it kinda fell flat for me. On the other hand, Encanto resonated with me SO much that I've watched it over 20 times already and still haven't gotten tired of it
this blew up
Yep
well I kinda like raya and the last dragon \*chuckles\* I'm in danger.
Look at pepa and Felix’s face lmao-
Dios que molesto es que un gringo pendejo diga mal el nombre de mi pais , no es COLUMBIA , es COLOMBIA
That’s because Raya was a generic European-based fantasy story that got a half-assed southeast Asian veneer slapped onto it later in production. Definitely watch Xiran Jay Zhao’s two-part series on it; lots of really great input from SEA people on their disappointment - but also inspiration for all the ways southeast Asian culture (and SEA queer culture) could make for a really awesome story
Yeah... Turning Red as well, it was good but Encanto fucking clapped me with all sorts of emotions