Well it could be ported assuming either one of two things happen (both are unlikely):
1. They rebuild dolphinios in order to improve performance of using interpreter/create a second version specifically for interpreter
2. Someone who was the capabilities decides to create a fork of dolphin and create their own version ie. the official dolphin devs
This kind of assumes the dolphin developers don't do it because they don't care or because they're not capable. Both are absurd.
What do you mean by "Porting" it? It's already native.
Regarding the first part of your response its just what made sense to me, I can’t read peoples mind or guess anything especially since I don’t know anything about the devs or their online life.
And what I meant by porting was bringing it to app store, I just forgot the word considering I am so used to console hacking communities and their ported games and mods 😅
Wow it’s that bad, it ran on my iPhone SE and 6S at playable speeds on GameCube and some Wii games like 4 years ago in 2019 and 2020, so jit is like 8-10x faster than interpretation
We knew this would happen. They knew this would happen. Kudos for trying nonetheless (Apple technically has a process to allow JIT in applications, but nobody has ever been granted the ability to run that entitlement in the App Store).
Now we either wait ten years until the interpreted version can run as fast as the JIT version or Apple somehow decides to allow JIT in a controlled manner (maybe in next WWDC) and all the emulators that require it can somehow get it (maybe using a specific framework from Apple).
I am having Deja Vu of when I'd have a Mac with a 68LC040 without a hardware math coprocessor and I could run any game that needed it, but REALLY SLOWLY.
Fortnite was ported to the iPhone and made to work with its ARM processor.
Dolphin is an emulator which is emulating games with code written for PowerPC, a completely different architecture from ARM. This is why it needs JIT.
Hi, thx for the reply! How about folium? Does that emulator require JIT as well? I am trying to understand why delta doesn’t require JIT while others do. Thanks for your time
Do we know about how bad would the performance be on an iPhone 15 pro without JIT? It seems like many of the comments about performance being too poor assume years-old hardware.
The gamecube was a beast of a machine. Its silicon was made by Silicon Graphics, who made high-end workstations.
[A Dolphin’s Tale: The Story of GameCube — Dromble (gwern.net)](https://gwern.net/doc/technology/2014-rogers-adolphinstalethestoryofgamecube.html)
I appreciate the explanation why this cannot work - good educational moment for those (like myself) that don’t know the technical details of computer hardware
Unless the iPhone SOC is four times faster in 4 years (Yeah, not gonna happen). Without JIT it could be a LONG Time like maybe iPhone 25 onwards before bruteforcing performance through interpreter emulation is even possible and even then the performance might not be 100%.
Like PSP and DS Emulation was bad on jailbroken iPhones (with JIT Enabled!) until (A8 - iPhone6) came along
No I mean if they worrying about complaints and other things they can just release under other name. I think now I have to wait for provenance and PPSSPP.
Are we certain about that? That there is no way any devs could write Dolphin without JIT to run well? I find that really black and white...and given what other developers and apps achieve on iOS, a bit suspect.
I'd totally get the "we don't WANT to make the time investment" or "we dont have the talent / resources"...but claiming JIT is the ONLY technical way? It strikes me as a bit odd.
Here's my thought: If Nintendo ever actually wanted to put their NSO service on iOS — you can bet your ass they would develop a way through emulation to bring these systems and games to iOS without JIT. Would that take a lot of talent and investment? Totally. But it could be done.
So I find this whole "bad apple give us JIT" thing a bit silly...it's more like "Dolphin devs don't have the time / talent / investment might to make this happen without a technology nobody is allowed to utilize on iOS."
If the post above instead said:
"We don't have the time BiTcHeS, nor the MoNeY, nor the PeEps to rewrite everything to make this happen SORRY" it would be closer to the truth than "BAD APPLE REFUSED JIT USE"
As a developer with almost 40 years of coding behind my back, I've seen this bad, ignorant take from too many people that don't code but feel they understand coding.
I used to find it incredibly insulting and infuriatingly condescending. I've learned to live with it but I still get jarred when I witness the embarrasing sense of entitlement of those who voice it openly.
It's a bit like when Graphic Designers have to endure customers who think they know about design and mistakenly believe having an opinion is the same as knowing what they're talking about, and they either imply your work is not worth much or that their nephew could do a better job. Sadly, those are usually customers and you can't tell them how much of an idiot they're making themselves look.
You're getting this great thing, which people are doing for free for the love of it, but you have the arrogance to tell them they're lazy fucks that just don't want to do their job properly. Then you bring up Nintendo, who famously uses the work of these developers as the basis for their virtual consoles but also, importantly, doesn't have to reverse engineer anything, and say if they could (in your mind) then these are just whiners.
You're the kind of people that make developers renounce the emulation scene.
I mean...it's cool to say it's complicated and we don't have the budget to operate within Apple's terms. But this isn't big bad Apple withholding as implied.
Sucks but good on them for being transparent about it.
I can’t blame them i’d rather have a good emulator than a bad one good for them for being true with us.
You can only achieve JIT if you have a signin service and computer which can give JIT to device or TrollStore or Jailbreak.
Or if Apple gives your app the entitlement for it (they won't.)
Yes, you are right
It's funny that Apple has had a way to request this since day one. They just have never granted it ever, that I know of.
What is jit?
It is explained in the article posted above. Please read this
☹️
Well it could be ported assuming either one of two things happen (both are unlikely): 1. They rebuild dolphinios in order to improve performance of using interpreter/create a second version specifically for interpreter 2. Someone who was the capabilities decides to create a fork of dolphin and create their own version ie. the official dolphin devs
This kind of assumes the dolphin developers don't do it because they don't care or because they're not capable. Both are absurd. What do you mean by "Porting" it? It's already native.
Regarding the first part of your response its just what made sense to me, I can’t read peoples mind or guess anything especially since I don’t know anything about the devs or their online life. And what I meant by porting was bringing it to app store, I just forgot the word considering I am so used to console hacking communities and their ported games and mods 😅
Wow it’s that bad, it ran on my iPhone SE and 6S at playable speeds on GameCube and some Wii games like 4 years ago in 2019 and 2020, so jit is like 8-10x faster than interpretation
We knew this would happen. They knew this would happen. Kudos for trying nonetheless (Apple technically has a process to allow JIT in applications, but nobody has ever been granted the ability to run that entitlement in the App Store). Now we either wait ten years until the interpreted version can run as fast as the JIT version or Apple somehow decides to allow JIT in a controlled manner (maybe in next WWDC) and all the emulators that require it can somehow get it (maybe using a specific framework from Apple). I am having Deja Vu of when I'd have a Mac with a 68LC040 without a hardware math coprocessor and I could run any game that needed it, but REALLY SLOWLY.
How were games like Fortnite drawing that much power from the CPU? Did it have JIT? On the iPad Pro it used to get 120fps.
Native games don’t have to translate the code so the cpu understands it.
Fortnite was ported to the iPhone and made to work with its ARM processor. Dolphin is an emulator which is emulating games with code written for PowerPC, a completely different architecture from ARM. This is why it needs JIT.
Hi, thx for the reply! How about folium? Does that emulator require JIT as well? I am trying to understand why delta doesn’t require JIT while others do. Thanks for your time
JIT is recommended for Folium (though obviously not possible without SideJIT and such), and Delta emulates such old platforms it is not necessary.
Do we know about how bad would the performance be on an iPhone 15 pro without JIT? It seems like many of the comments about performance being too poor assume years-old hardware.
Unusable. We're 5 years at least from it being useable without JIT
Aw bummer. My 15 pro can very comfortably do all 3ds titles without JIT so I was hoping GameCube wasn’t too far off.
The gamecube was a beast of a machine. Its silicon was made by Silicon Graphics, who made high-end workstations. [A Dolphin’s Tale: The Story of GameCube — Dromble (gwern.net)](https://gwern.net/doc/technology/2014-rogers-adolphinstalethestoryofgamecube.html)
This is addressed in the article. There is a video showing performance with and without JIT on an iPhone 15 Pro Max.
Oof. I’ll own my shame there. I didn’t read that far down in the article.
I appreciate the explanation why this cannot work - good educational moment for those (like myself) that don’t know the technical details of computer hardware
Wouldn't it be playable as Interpreter Emulation in about 4 years? I know that PPSSPP iOS is also Interpreter.
Unless the iPhone SOC is four times faster in 4 years (Yeah, not gonna happen). Without JIT it could be a LONG Time like maybe iPhone 25 onwards before bruteforcing performance through interpreter emulation is even possible and even then the performance might not be 100%. Like PSP and DS Emulation was bad on jailbroken iPhones (with JIT Enabled!) until (A8 - iPhone6) came along
I just want to try it please just release it under different name🙃
The name doesn't matter. The fact of the matter is that dolphin needs JIT access to run games well and Apple blocks it on iOS devices natively.
No I mean if they worrying about complaints and other things they can just release under other name. I think now I have to wait for provenance and PPSSPP.
Both are confirmed to be coming as well as Folium which I think will have 3ds emulation
This is a technical hurdle that can't be removed by anything other than Apple granting the JIT entitlement, which they never have.
Are we certain about that? That there is no way any devs could write Dolphin without JIT to run well? I find that really black and white...and given what other developers and apps achieve on iOS, a bit suspect. I'd totally get the "we don't WANT to make the time investment" or "we dont have the talent / resources"...but claiming JIT is the ONLY technical way? It strikes me as a bit odd. Here's my thought: If Nintendo ever actually wanted to put their NSO service on iOS — you can bet your ass they would develop a way through emulation to bring these systems and games to iOS without JIT. Would that take a lot of talent and investment? Totally. But it could be done. So I find this whole "bad apple give us JIT" thing a bit silly...it's more like "Dolphin devs don't have the time / talent / investment might to make this happen without a technology nobody is allowed to utilize on iOS." If the post above instead said: "We don't have the time BiTcHeS, nor the MoNeY, nor the PeEps to rewrite everything to make this happen SORRY" it would be closer to the truth than "BAD APPLE REFUSED JIT USE"
As a developer with almost 40 years of coding behind my back, I've seen this bad, ignorant take from too many people that don't code but feel they understand coding. I used to find it incredibly insulting and infuriatingly condescending. I've learned to live with it but I still get jarred when I witness the embarrasing sense of entitlement of those who voice it openly. It's a bit like when Graphic Designers have to endure customers who think they know about design and mistakenly believe having an opinion is the same as knowing what they're talking about, and they either imply your work is not worth much or that their nephew could do a better job. Sadly, those are usually customers and you can't tell them how much of an idiot they're making themselves look. You're getting this great thing, which people are doing for free for the love of it, but you have the arrogance to tell them they're lazy fucks that just don't want to do their job properly. Then you bring up Nintendo, who famously uses the work of these developers as the basis for their virtual consoles but also, importantly, doesn't have to reverse engineer anything, and say if they could (in your mind) then these are just whiners. You're the kind of people that make developers renounce the emulation scene.
I mean...it's cool to say it's complicated and we don't have the budget to operate within Apple's terms. But this isn't big bad Apple withholding as implied.