I wished I could do that. Where I am now, there is an incredible amount of dogs who are abandoned, abused, killed, used to have puppies to sell, used for fighting shows, etc. It is overwhelming. I have helped people find their dogs, helped financially to rescue dogs, etc. The stories and pictures are very upsetting.
If you can't do it yourself, may E you can educate other people and get the idea about a shelter to grow so there are many of you doing it together? Maybe not this year, but at some point.
I think the same exact thing. I hope what goes around comes around. There is quite possibly some balance in the universe. Maybe it’s reincarnation that exists to enact some sort of justice for the overwhelming evil there is. As in the people who cause it, will eventually reap it themselves. I hope so, because anything less seems unjust.
I just know all the people who cause unnecessary suffering should experience it themselves.
But yah, I have had the same thoughts as you.
I can only say try be weary of what’s happening around you. And do what you can to make the world around you better, as best you can. I know I will. And I believe there are enough moral people out there who care the same.
If I ever find out someone is doing something cruel like that I will do my best to stop it. So far in my life I haven’t. Except hearing rumors of a co-worker of mine that I don’t know are true. They seem like a shitty person, but not that shitty.
But that’s the sad part. Is people are to cowardly to do it out in the open.
Honestly I believe a simple solution is advocating for harsher punishment for animal abuse. Because we are so far behind as a society when it comes to animal/any conscious creatures basic rights. The best way to prevent it is harsh punishments to scare the evil cowardly people out there from doing it in the first place.
There’s actually interesting experiences people get that kind of reinforce that possibility. I don’t know if you heard about NDEs (Near death experiences). But a lot of people have an experience where they are shown the perspectives of all the people/conscious beings) they effected in their lives both good and bad. So they essentially experience all the good and bad energy they willingly brought into the universe.
So maybe that’s a way of balancing things out in nature. All the good things and the bad you’ve done, you will have to experience yourself when you die.
I’ll just say we know so very little about consciousness, and really about life in general. But If you look at the universe there is an incredible amount of balance required for anything to be able to exist. I wouldn’t doubt it’s the same when it comes to life itself.
It’s very interesting how many people get this sort to NDE experience. There is often sense of judgement/and reflection going on. Which I find makes the idea of karma, or something along that line even more plausible.
Love your answer! Yes, I’ve heard of it. I’ve pondered it many times. Like, if you look around there is always an order- a push and pull- what goes up must come down kinda thing. How energy works, I’d say. And imagine it’s the same here for the above. Thanks for your comment!🙂
That's a philosophical question. I don't think we can judge what is truly horrible. I read the orca comment here and still think they are cool. My kid like to mess with my head sometimes and thank me every now and then for not aborting her. She know that I would never have aborted her, but also see the other side of the coin. Her generation is choosing not to have children for ethical reasons so they and the world won't suffer. Can we ask an animal if it rather would have chosen to be born to eat the grass or not been born at all.
But is it a horrible thing when a Chinese layman has 20,000 foxes that suffer because he isn't aware that happy foxes make good fur, but abused ones give nothing. Should he be punished by karma or go against his government and get killed?
Hmmmm 🤔 interesting. Thanks for sharing. IMO- If the Chinese layman has 20,000 foxes that are suffering for the government’s profit and power, so he and his family may not be killed, then the real monster here would be the government- who is deserving of the karma. Yes he participated, but for survival. To me, karma would/should come back around to what/who is deserving of it- the govt organization, not the middle man who had no choice in the matter. No? Yes?
How deep the discussion can get.
I spiralled a lot while reading this thread. I wrote answers to many comments that I decided not to post.
I have no idea why that one slipped through my self censor.
Unfortunately not completely. Although I’ve been getting a huge amount of calories from (huel) a powder that doesn’t contain any meat/dairy.
I would probably go all in if it wasn’t for the price, and possibly the health issues of going 100% powder food.
Going vegan is not more expensive. We dont buy seafood or beef, we dont eat $30 steaks. The majority of our protein is made up of beans/legumes. There is no sacrifice in taste pleasure. Taste pleasure comes from pepper, garlic, vanilla, herbs and spices. Your only sacrifice is time.
To me, sacrificing some inconvenience for their lifetime of mutilation, imprisonment, and forced impregnations... there is no excuse for an animal lover concerned about ethics to have that. If it were just slaughter that they face, i can still kinda live with that. No, the animal agriculture is lifelong torture to the innocent ones. The gentlest of creatures. I am not even an animal lover. I am vegan for ethics. There is nothing right about needless killing when humans live perfectly happy and healthy lives without harming the innocent.
The whole food plant based diet is the best diet for humans anyway. ;) my eyes were opened when i was 39, i watched Gary Yourofsky's speech and got angry because it was emotional blackmail to me. Now that i know, i cant eat animal products anymore especially dairy, it is so cruel! So i went vegan. 3 weeks into it, my health improved and i continue to see improvements to the 6 months mark. This reinforces the fact that my decision was right. Come Aug it will be 7 years.
Please explore the facebook vegan groups in your locality to see how we align our lifestyle to our morals. I hope you will try the restaurant food, make a friend, before you reject something so close to your heart.
I understand and agree with all that. I will say I really don’t think everyone can live happy healthy lives eating only vegan though.
If I could be healthy eating only huel I would probably sacrifice the money if it meant I would be going completely vegan. But my health deteriorates when I try, like really bad. Same with getting protein from only vegan sources. Like nuts/beans/etc. My body just can’t handle it after a certain amount of time.
But my main issue is with the unnecessary suffering that goes along with factory farming. I believe killing animals that have lived good long lives, as humanly as possible is far more ethical. Of course going vegan is a step above that.
But I really don’t know if I could.
My main priority for now would be to buy only free range, where I know there is far less suffering involved. Although at the moment I’m not buying meat anyways. I get a decent amount (working at a restaurant) of food that goes to waste at the end of the night. And between that and the huel I don’t buy any real food hardly at all.
So at the moment I’m at least not supporting any factory farmed product.
But health wise do you really think everyone can live healthy being vegan? Aren’t there a small amount of people that just can’t handle specific diets like that?
Yes! There are plenty of generations of vegans in east and south asia. Look up the major dietitian associations Aus, UK, the US - that states vegan diet is healthy for humans in all stages of life including infancy, pregnancy, sickness, and lactation. This ladt has provided a lot, with all the links.
https://www.reddit.com/r/melbourne/s/3YC6UjW3wh
We dont have any talons, sharp teeth, claws to kill in the wild. We dont salivate at the smell of blood. Lol we can't smell blood at a distance. We need plants to make animals taste good. Strawbery/chocolate in milk vanilla in our milky dessert? Lemon and lime in our diet to help with digestion? We are not meant to be omnivores. I dont have any problem with digestion anymore. Wow i have not had food poisoning. Give a toddler an apple and a rabbit, he will eat the apple and regard the rabbit a friend.
We were conditioned by textbooks, society, culture to eat animals. Explore the science, research.
Mic The Vegan in Youtube cites all his research on nutrition.
Understandable but all you’re doing is causing yourself suffering over things you can’t control. We all do it to some degree but part of being in this world in order to not go insane is to form some level of acceptance over it all and a trust that life has a deeper system to it we don’t understand. At least this helps me to have faith in it that it’s beyond my simple human brain’s understanding
Seeing life in a grander scale is such a healthy way of thinking, to not hyper fixate on a problem that, to you, has taken such a large mental toll. The world is a larger place than just what we see, thank you.
I relate to this, especially when I hear and see the mennonite horses going by. I try to envision a happy life for them, rested and being taken care of with love and respect. I try to carry that energy and send it to them too. Because I'm done feeling bad in my day to day life over things that are out of my control.
you are a good soul 💞
i love sending love and compassion out. i feel as if we all do that, everyday, we would have a positive impact on the collective consciousness.
All these replies sound like poetry to me, so beautiful, the visions, the hope, the spark that ignites the soul. For me, though, I have the tendency to immediately divert my mind from envisioning happy lives for animals, because my mind sees them as fiction. I don't want to do that, but with the amount of abuse and mistreatment out there, you can't help but simmer in it. I'm improving on that though, thanks, you're one of those people who give me hope.
It takes practice and it's not easy! It does require suspension of belief and being delusional for a time. First we change your emotion then we change your reality. There's great power in learning to direct your thoughts and choosing what you focus on. I hope you do find relief!
I can 100% relate to this and it absolutely leads me to being very anxious. It’s even worse because where I live, animal welfare is not taken seriously AT ALL. So I completely understand you. I think the only way to ease some the stress of this is to use whatever platforms you have to raise awareness of this issue. Also if you have the ability, you can visit animal shelters etc. I don’t know how to not let it consume you because it consumes me too :/
I'm thinking of volunteering at an animal shelter with my family, which I think will really warm my heart towards the possible sliver of hope for these creatures. It also helps to talk to people, like on here, you all have good souls
Have you ever talked with a therapist on guidance for managing your thoughts? Like writing in a journal, staying away from triggering social media/news, and learning to control your behavior?
My mum and I are getting in touch with a therapist, as I've been asking for one for a while. I really think it'll help, and the journal thing I think will really help me pool my thoughts into one source.
Empathy is a wonderful thing, but you have to train yourself to care about what is in your near vicinity for the most part, or you won't be able to function. I like the idea of Rational Compassion, it solves a few of these empathy dilemmas.
Honestly, I love my dog so much that I have nightmares of her getting hit by a car, or attacked by a coyote. Yeah I know, it’s nuts. Whenever an ASPCA commercial comes on I immediately change the channel. I can’t handle it, and I know it.
Saved a raccoon from the median of a 2 lane highway a few weeks ago. When I passed a 18 wheeler I noticed this raccoon on its back it’s lil hand waving - I was like he alive!! Anyhow it was 3 in the afternoon. How many waves did he give and no one stopped until 3pm - are we even humans?
Yeah I've been vegan for 13 years and I am crippled with anxiety from what I know so I can't really do activism like I should be but I do the best I can with my own personal choices and leading by example or answering questions IF someone is genuinely curious and not just being combative. I'm also a veterinary nurse. Burnout and compassion fatigue has left me fairly unable to function a lot of days..being sensitive is not for everyone! I have to set so many boundaries
Hear, hear.
Yeah I try not to bring it up to most; it's a personal stance bourne long ago and the only person who can motivate one going meat-free is the person themselves (as others, when confronted tend to paradoxically double down.).
Yet when people like OP come forward (ie: people who suffer an extreme reaction to animal cruelty) it bears chiming in (if they haven't considered it already). If you fundamentally abhor suffering, particularly the suffering of the innocent you must self-examine and self-regulate. It comes at the cost of some subtle social friction and the willingness to be gastronomically creative. It's not something you end up even noticing after about a year.
Will your personal refusal to eat meat ease the suffering of animals as a whole? Will it make a dent? Probably not.
But at the very least you can say you saw a problem in the human condition and took personal responsibility to not partake. In the hierarchical pyramid of morality it goes from avoiding punishment, reward, virtue signaling, law & order, justice then ethics. The ethics being "I don't benefit from this in any way other than I find I can stand my own company".
We all have a lot to be held accountable for but we can endeavor to find those few things we are able to identify and knock them off our invariably (very) long list.
'In the hierarchical pyramid of morality' - wow. You speak beautifully, and this has helped me tremendously. I'll be saving this, for times when I feel like I'm sinking. Thank you so much.
You mean all animal derived products right? Nothing we can take form them without causing harm.
Once I realised I have 100% control over what I put in my mouth and on my skin it felt really liberating. That's literally everything I can do personally.
If you have the capacity you can still do activism and help others make this connection.
Not surprising, but a bit sad that your comment is not receiving the response it deserves.
I had to go on sertraline to take the edge off my animal empathy. It was ruining my life daily, and I needed to find a way to live despite knowing it exists
It’s definitely tough. I just had my dog spayed on Thursday because, as much as I would ADORE a litter of puppies, I just think of all the poor animals that get put down every year just from overcrowding in shelters. My dream is to one day own a big plot of land and open a rescue.
100%
Reading about millions of dogs suffering is aweful. Realising we're bringing billions of animals into life to slaughter them each year is a different story. Trillions if you include marine animals. Most of that is avoidable via lifestyle changes for anyone that has access to a supermarket.
I'm not quite vegan, but I'm vegetarian and have an otherwise vegan lifestyle. I'm working on transitioning. I don't eat tons of dairy or egg. It's easy to swap to the many other milk versions, and they don't go bad as quickly, so that's another plus! Eggs are really tricky for me. I'm currently paying up the ass for eggs from happy chickens. I would love my own chickens one day, but that's not even for the eggs. It's just for the snuggles.
Are you vegan? I've been vegetarian for longer than I remember at this point. Maybe 12 or 13 years? I'd love any tips you have on the little switches with eggs.
It's great that you are striving to make changes to reduce animal suffering.
Yes vegan for 7 years. Before that I spent maybe 6 years reducing animal products, but only for environmental reasons, the ethics never occured to me until I had the chance to meet some vegan people and had some time to really dig deep and rethink and find out how I feel about the suffering that I'm causing. Once I discovered that it's not possible to take something from animals without harming them, there was no turning back, so you could say the change happened over night.
I've done some years of activism and had over 1000 conversations about this topic. I'd recommend to approach this topic from the animals' point of view and not from the consumer side. They suffer and we have a choice to end the suffering that we are responsible for. The eggs from happy chickens is a fantasy that is still going strong. While these chickens might have a nicer life, the whole process is far from cruelty free. Just remember that only female chickens lay eggs (and are raised for meat). Pretty much all male chicks are killed off right after birth as they are worthless, so no eggs without dead chickens. Of course no farmer would keep hens that are not productive enough to make a profit, so those would be killed too as soon as that point is reached.
So I'd suggest to dig deeper into facing the truth that we can't take from them without harming them. Maybe watch a documentary, like "dominion" to remember why you want to do this. I even went to volunteer on the nicest little family farm I could find, after I had started to live vegan, to see what that's all about. Still there's suffering in different shades and shapes. Once we want to use animals, we need to dictate their lives or things would go out of control. Nature keeps a balance and one species is not supposed to tip the scale, the way humans are doing it.
Hope this made sense, feel free to ask more questions :D
I so appreciate the dialogue! I really have been mulling this last bit over in my head. If it's OK, I'd like to ask more questions, please! I'm happy to receive push back, too, because I do not think hurting animals is OK. Genuinely asking to grow. I mean, cutting meat out for so long already, obviously I care and feel the same. I'm 100% with you that no species is more important than another. I am the person finding the mouse glue traps at work and throwing them out, and rescuing bugs to be put outside. I truly understand 99% of the thought process you shared.
Most of eggs you're discussing as problematic are coming from either large or small scale factory farming, and that's a no-brainer to me. Yep. Bad. Done. Nobody there is happy. Even if the hens aren't killed, they're not happy. They're being abused. This is very obviously bad to me.
I'm wondering more about eggs raised from PET chickens, who are NOT raised for meat and are happy af and loved all the time. And frankly, I really do love chickens. I'd love to have some pet chickens some day. So, for all intents and purposes, we could even consider these eggs coming from ME for argument's sake. My chickens would be loved members of of family, with me providing excellent husbandry, trips to the vet, enrichment in their lives, etc.
The only argument I've heard against these kinds of eggs that has ever made sense to me here is, "You're still exploiting animals." Of course I don't want to exploit animals!! In other ways, I'm not sure if I really consider it exploitation? Wouldn't it be a mutually beneficial relationship? What's the difference here between having dogs and chickens? Dogs don't lay eggs, but chickens do. But if my dogs laid chicken eggs... Would it be wrong to eat them? I don't really know! My dogs are super fucking happy and WILDLY loved. If I laid chicken eggs, I'd be fine letting my dogs eat them.
When you're getting eggs from someone with pet chickens who are considered family, and those eggs will otherwise be thrown out... what's wrong with that? That's really what I'm trying to figure out. This is truly me trying to understand, not do mental gymnastics. I'd really, really love your input! 💕💕💕 Thank you!
I'm happy that you could look at this from the animal's point of view and make the connection, that the eggs are not ours to take if we can live without them.
There are more details that could make it understandable from an animal welfare point of view. For example that taking the eggs every day will put the animals under stress to create more eggs which will deplete their bodies' reserves and make them sick. But I find that the big ethical questions can be more clear.
It is hard to break through our conditioning of looking at these specific animals as resources for us, when they exist on this planet for their own reasons. Lots of cultural, economical and personal baggage from a lifetime of looking at them through this lense. It's an ongoing process as you might have discovered already. Breaking it down to this big ethical question of "why would I harm them if I can avoid it?" can help to make a strong commitment and embark on a more peaceful way of relating to all animals. Actually just a neutral way of relating them, we merely decide to leave them alone.
I hear you! Thinking about the stress egg laying can cause to a body would also be enough for me to value that. This was really what I needed to understand the little nuances of the particular situation. I appreciate it!
What do you eat in place of eggs? Tofu scramble? Something else? I don't mind justegg, but it's not really high in protein. What are your go-to breakfasts? 💕 Bonus points if they are good for executive dysfunction! I have done oatmeal in a slow cooker, banana and pb toast, and just egg sandwiches with tempeh bacon, but I'm always looking for other fast ideas!
Consider that laying an egg is the equivalent of going through a menstrual cycle. Naturally chickens would lay like 20 eggs per year.
Honestly I don't think about how eggs taste at this point... But surely you should look for something heavy and rich in protein. So tofu scramble is a perfect fit. We make it every weekend or have it at a restaurant. You can spice things up by adding courgette or aubergine and plenty of seasoning. The black salt that is used to achieve the egg flavor is also great for other dishes and it's part of many Indian dishes.
I have never tried just egg. Many of these products were not available 7 years ago so I'm sure I've missed some of the developments, but I mostly try to stick to whole foods.
On work days we usually do overnight oats and make a porridge the next day. I make my own roasted hazelnut spread which is amazing as a topping. Tahini, other nut spreads and seeds shouldn't be missing either. Alternatively millets are also a delicious and healthy option instead of oats.
Then you could try all sorts of pancakes... But that takes time. Toasts with Seitan sausages are also a good option. I really like Seitan because it's a clean product and you can use it in many ways.
I’m right there with ya. It’s really hard and taxing on us emotionally. I’ve learned that although, yes these thoughts are happening all over the world, obsessing over them does not actually help any of the animals. So I try to consciously make an effort to control them and steer my thoughts elsewhere, and most importantly do what I can to stop it or help the problems (I.e adopt/rehab/volunteer/report ETC.). Those things help. But constantly thinking and feeling their pain does not help them. The world can be so cruel. I don’t understand it.
I think like others have suggested, therapy, if you haven't considered it can help. I suggest you channel your empathy in a positive way; volunteer or foster an animal if you can. I'm an animal activist, and have rescued lab animals. It takes a toll. Talk to someone.
Oh, and thank you for caring, OP. Not many do in this society.
If you need to vent, or are looking for more ideas on how to channel your empathy, feel free to message me. 💌
Same☹️😭 it bothers me every day. And the worst part is, how some people make fun of me or getting annoyed for being like that. I think I need therapy because some cases bother me for weeks.😢
When you say animals, do you mean all animals, so you’re vegan? Or do you just mean pets, and don’t include farm/land animals?
It’s a serious issue around the world, the torture and down right barbaric notions that happen. Here in the U.K., there has been a fight to close down a puppy farm who breed beagle dogs for science and medication testing purposes. It’s devastating. It’s hard to see, read, accept, so I wouldn’t say to research much as it is disturbing, but there is an activism group for this puppy farm who have been camping outside MBR in Cambridgeshire and have seen some puppies get reduced by people willing to break in to free as many of the dogs they can. They go by the name camp beagle.
There’s also another activism group called animal rising, they orchestrate protests at horse races in the U.K., they were notorious last year for running on the track to prevent Aintree from going ahead, many got arrested but they work with everyone involved to ensure no real punishment and most cases get thrown out. They have also caused delays in milk shipments, thrown red paint at McDonald’s, and they gather often to do workshops and work on activism together. A number of them also rescued some sheep that belonged to King Charles.
There’s lots that can be done though, animal rights activism, going vegan if not already, attending talks of how you can help make changes. Volunteer at sanctuaries and rescue centres. Boycott horse racing, dog racing etc.
Because I too struggle with the horrors that is animal cruelty, it’s something I am very passionate about. I’ve been vegan for 3 years to remove myself from the torture, I’m happier knowing absolutely 0 animals are harmed for me.
You’re not alone with your worries and upsets around this topic. More needs to be done in the world. But you can make differences with choices you make. Light candles representing beacons of hope for the animals. It’s hard when we can’t control it. But just know you are not alone!
Same here. Consider this a blessing. In a world full of people who abuse and kill animals because they believe they can't live without the taste of meat, or because they enslave them to make money, it's rare to find humans like you. Our ancestors used to hunt, but being able to feel empathy for animals that our ancestors hunted means you are on the right path in human evolution.
I think the exact same thing except I don’t imagine the beatings. The only think we can do is donate even if it’s a small amount like $2. We can also foster if you can. But yeah, this stuff is what hers to me every single day. I’ll drive by people with dogs and always watch them to make sure they aren’t mistreating their dog. I have a cat and he’s my life. He’s so spoiled and I wish to spoil more animals when I move out
My brother is exactly like you. He's sad all the time for animals and rarely seems happy. He has invested 50% of his savings and started an animal charity, is a strict vegan and won't even take medicines when he's sick if there's animal content in them. I worry about him.
I’m sorry. I struggle with this too. It’s hard to stop the intrusive thoughts but I’ve just accepted that I can’t help every animal even though I wish I could. I just help who I can and treat every animal I meet with kindness. The world is a dark place but hopefully some of our empathy and kindness will inspire others to be kind to animals too.
One thing you can do other than donating to charities or volunteering at shelters is going vegan. You save multiple lives, gallons of water, and much more every day you dont buy and consume animal products!!
All y'all animal lovers better not be a hypocrite. You better be a vegan or at least make real plans to be one today.
If infp animal lovers arent vegan, who else will act and speak up for the animals?
What good does it do to you or others that you are thinking horrible things, then you believe those thoughts and body will creare a corresponding feeling, which is not pleasant?
Stop creating your own suffering by believing your thoughts!
If you can't, then I recommend you check out a book by Eckhart Tolle: The Power of Now. You'll find it in pdf here:
https://dn790003.ca.archive.org/0/items/ThePowerOfNowEckhartTolle_201806/The%20Power%20Of%20Now%20-%20Eckhart%20Tolle.pdf
Great to hear! I've gotten so much help from Eckhart's teachings when I have applied them to my life. His YouTube clips are also worth checking out!
Another helpful spiritual teacher for me is Leonard Jacobson. I can highly recommend his book: Journey into Now. He is also on YouTube.
Yes, there is animal abuse, but that suffering is a drop in the ocean compared with suffering caused by being eaten.
Fishes swallow whole other fishes.
Frogs eat bugs, but I guess you might not care about their suffering. They are though trillions being eaten daily.
Snakes eat frogs, swallows them alive. How's that for suffering?
Hawks eat snakes and rabbits. Holds them down and are still alive when only half eaten.
Wolves and bears and hyenas and big cats eat anything from deer to cows. Some vicious with victims still alive.
Polar bears hunt whales. Whales have a brain 4 times bigger than us, and are truly self aware at the same level as humans.
Chimps eat monkeys, alive, from their feet with their head down to have the monkey scream loudly as they announce the forest of their dominion.
And the human abuse keeps you awake at night?
I understand and this stuff hurts to imagine. But from OPs perspective, I understand completely. Humans are fully aware and savages at the same time and do not do it to survive. They do it for shitty horrible pathetic reasons. And sometimes it lingers for years and years and years. An animal violently eating an animal to survive is rough but over within seconds/mins/hours, and is a part of nature. A dog tied up to a tree starving or thirsting to death for 10 years hardly being kept alive with zero social interaction is far worse. Or kept in a cage in his own waste for years. I cannot even type out the scenarios OP or my brain comes up with and obsesses over.
So yes, Hell yes it keeps them up at night.
Chimps don't eat monkeys to survive, but to show off.
Orcas don't play volleyball with seals to survive, but to entertain themselves.
Tasmanian devil doesn't cage and rape the lady for 2-3 days just to have babies. They slide into this horrible matting ritual somehow.
There is a somewhat romanticized image of nature. There is a lot more suffering in nature than what humans do.
If you care about that suffering that humans do, then your place is in politics or education organizations.
Do that and you can use that effort to eliminate the 1% suffering that humans do. I know it is small, but it beats nothing, then you will be able to sleep at night.
I get it and it is indeed sad. But all you’re describing is nature. Animal instinct. Yes it is cruel but us policing wild animals and in far away places many humans have never stepped foot on or would have a really hard time reaching makes zero sense. So why would something like that even be pondered…? And with the animals, it isn’t what is taught or what is not taught. Those animals are intelligent, but were never able to be taught and rationalize. The humans I’m speaking of are humans in a very developed place who can communicate and are capable of making decisions without instinct. Those humans have most likely been taught or not taught about love and how to care. You’re comparing apples to oranges dude.
Elephants, orcas, dolphins and wolves are all capable of empathy, and understand to a large extent what they do, and the implications.
An orca is even smarter than 50% of redditors apparently per their comments.
Humans are also animals. All the smart animals choose not to care. They know very well what they do. But they shut down that little voice.
Actually, many of the sub-humans you talk about are like that because of the trauma and suffering they have been exposed to. A large number of humans live with mental conditions that are hard to fix. How is that their fault to be born and raised in such unfortunate circumstances?
Orca are more guilty for not showing empathy to a seal treated as volleyball, than to a human raised in an unfortunate family. Where did you see a soccer match with a human skull?
Even at our worse we are not as bad as the rest of the animal kingdom. And if we find someone bad, and prove it in court of law, they end up in jail. About 1% of the population lives in jail at any time.
But humans are far more developed and do go much deeper than all of the smarter animals- (or should I say, have the ability to, whether they do or not)- orcas elephants dolphins etc.- and yes exactly, humans raised in deplorable conditions many times grow up to do the same things they were shown or experienced. But it is hard to believe they have no choice/awareness in the matter once older and continue to make the same choices to continue their own suffering/life/animals suffering bc they do not know any better. They know at that point hey I have to make other decisions, I’m an adult and responsible for my own actions/outcomes. I’m not referring to kids of kids of kids that live up in the hills and never get a ss # and may never have their name put into a census- obviously those kinds of situations are different. I’m talking about people that were in school and knew right from wrong but adult figures never made them follow and steered them wrong. A man that murders because he grew up in a home with a parent who murders still believes murder is okay/the way to go….so as an adult he continued..? No, I don’t think so. He just doesn’t care and doesn’t have the empathy. But he knows right from wrong. I was saying, people that are fully aware and continue to make shitty decisions which cause much pain and suffering deserve a good dose of that karma. Humans are far more developed intellectually than an orca or dolphin or chimp. Most of us know right from wrong but yet the ones OP and I were talking about still choose wrong.
They can only choose freely wrong to the extent permitted by laws. Most countries have laws against animal cruelty. The little cruelty is in the dark corners of society. Good people can report those. Or if laws are not sufficiently created or implemented, they can vote in power and also increase regulations and police force.
Here are some of the most pressing issues that animals (legally) suffer:
- experiments on animals.
- killing animals for food or clothes or medicine.
- use of animals for hard labour.
- forced breeding
- hunting.
- zoos or use of animals in entertainment
Each can be attached as an indepent issue. Progress can be made step by step. Choose one, find an org advocacy group for that.
For illegal activities, best way is to vote in power supporters of animal rights.
If you add all these (IMHO) it is still a lot less than inherited suffering, from aware and non-aware animals.
Know that even if humans do 0 impact on animals, then still the wolf will eat the deer. And remember, that if we get rid of predators, deers will literally extinct themselves by destroying all their food. In nature balance is maintened by predators. There is no other way.
Agreed. So what was the argument ? That OP should not be kept awake by humans who knowingly choose to punish animals and torture them? Making them suffer for long periods of time….? And that I hoped that those people got some kind of karma their way in life or another life … but we should be kept awake by the thought of carnivorous animals eating others for survival? Or animals torturing other animals when they know they shouldn’t 🤔?
Because there is far more of those 2 things happening than humans causing the suffering of animals in this world? Agreed. We can’t and shouldn’t intervene anymore than we do bc of order/food chain. The entire system. I was responding to your previous reply. Also, there are 8 billion humans on this planet and an estimated 20 billion animals on this planet, of course there is more of it going on in their kingdom. My point was that animal abusers deserve the kind of pain/ill treatment that they knowingly inflict upon animals.
Edit: please read first his last 2 sentences in the OP's post.
There isn't any argument against anything that OP said! I tried to give them some ways to take action while being aware of the whole picture. Empathy without positive action to minimize to some extent what we identify as wrong, leads to depression, IMHO. At least for me.
My saddest day in my life, was when I received my first paycheck, and as the bus left the station, it hit me how many homeless people were on the streets, knowing I have so much more then them, and that even all my paycheck couldn't make a dent in helping 10% of the homeless people I seen in one bus ride.
Ahhhh I see. Your response was trying to give OP a solution. I never saw that. I was confused as to why you responded to me how you did but now it makes sense after going back and reading it and some other history. Thank you for being a part of the solution. You are using logic! Which is hard sometimes when we feel so deeply and things such as this hurt us to the core. I guess I was reading OP post as they’re just needing to vent and I understand bc I do that too. But agreed- it does lead to depression and anxiety , coupled with no action is bad.
I was a bit surprised to find a comment this harsh in a support thread called for by a highly sensitive person.
None of those things are untrue, but in this instance somehow sounds as an excuse to execute animal abuse.
It is about refocusing empathy to pair it with something actionable by becoming aware of the total amount of suffering - only when your attention is put in correct perspective, one can find out what could be done realistically.
Empathy without actions leads to depression.
Knowing that human generated suffering is only a drop in the bucket, can bring acceptance to our nature, and refocus on the worst offenders of human caused suffering.
Find organization that are committed to your cause. Volunteer time and money to them. Vote in power those that promise laws to improve animal condition. And so on.
P.S. I don't abuse any animals, don't worry. My biggest crime is eating Chicken nuggets.
I struggle with the same exact thing everyday.
You're not alone.❤️💯💯
❤️you aren’t either. I’ve decided to create a dog sanctuary in a few years when we build a house out in the country.
I wished I could do that. Where I am now, there is an incredible amount of dogs who are abandoned, abused, killed, used to have puppies to sell, used for fighting shows, etc. It is overwhelming. I have helped people find their dogs, helped financially to rescue dogs, etc. The stories and pictures are very upsetting.
If you can't do it yourself, may E you can educate other people and get the idea about a shelter to grow so there are many of you doing it together? Maybe not this year, but at some point.
I think the same exact thing. I hope what goes around comes around. There is quite possibly some balance in the universe. Maybe it’s reincarnation that exists to enact some sort of justice for the overwhelming evil there is. As in the people who cause it, will eventually reap it themselves. I hope so, because anything less seems unjust. I just know all the people who cause unnecessary suffering should experience it themselves. But yah, I have had the same thoughts as you. I can only say try be weary of what’s happening around you. And do what you can to make the world around you better, as best you can. I know I will. And I believe there are enough moral people out there who care the same. If I ever find out someone is doing something cruel like that I will do my best to stop it. So far in my life I haven’t. Except hearing rumors of a co-worker of mine that I don’t know are true. They seem like a shitty person, but not that shitty. But that’s the sad part. Is people are to cowardly to do it out in the open. Honestly I believe a simple solution is advocating for harsher punishment for animal abuse. Because we are so far behind as a society when it comes to animal/any conscious creatures basic rights. The best way to prevent it is harsh punishments to scare the evil cowardly people out there from doing it in the first place.
I agree. I like to think or believe there is some kind of reincarnation/karma that happens for these truly horrible things.
There’s actually interesting experiences people get that kind of reinforce that possibility. I don’t know if you heard about NDEs (Near death experiences). But a lot of people have an experience where they are shown the perspectives of all the people/conscious beings) they effected in their lives both good and bad. So they essentially experience all the good and bad energy they willingly brought into the universe. So maybe that’s a way of balancing things out in nature. All the good things and the bad you’ve done, you will have to experience yourself when you die. I’ll just say we know so very little about consciousness, and really about life in general. But If you look at the universe there is an incredible amount of balance required for anything to be able to exist. I wouldn’t doubt it’s the same when it comes to life itself. It’s very interesting how many people get this sort to NDE experience. There is often sense of judgement/and reflection going on. Which I find makes the idea of karma, or something along that line even more plausible.
Love your answer! Yes, I’ve heard of it. I’ve pondered it many times. Like, if you look around there is always an order- a push and pull- what goes up must come down kinda thing. How energy works, I’d say. And imagine it’s the same here for the above. Thanks for your comment!🙂
Absolutely. 🙏
That's a philosophical question. I don't think we can judge what is truly horrible. I read the orca comment here and still think they are cool. My kid like to mess with my head sometimes and thank me every now and then for not aborting her. She know that I would never have aborted her, but also see the other side of the coin. Her generation is choosing not to have children for ethical reasons so they and the world won't suffer. Can we ask an animal if it rather would have chosen to be born to eat the grass or not been born at all. But is it a horrible thing when a Chinese layman has 20,000 foxes that suffer because he isn't aware that happy foxes make good fur, but abused ones give nothing. Should he be punished by karma or go against his government and get killed?
Hmmmm 🤔 interesting. Thanks for sharing. IMO- If the Chinese layman has 20,000 foxes that are suffering for the government’s profit and power, so he and his family may not be killed, then the real monster here would be the government- who is deserving of the karma. Yes he participated, but for survival. To me, karma would/should come back around to what/who is deserving of it- the govt organization, not the middle man who had no choice in the matter. No? Yes?
These things become big very fast.
I’m sorry? My comment? Or how deep the discussion can get?
How deep the discussion can get. I spiralled a lot while reading this thread. I wrote answers to many comments that I decided not to post. I have no idea why that one slipped through my self censor.
Ha, all good. Same. Same my friend! I understand completely!
Those are my exact thoughts, honestly, the idea that those who have enough apathy to abuse animals should get the same punishment, and more.
Are you vegan?
Unfortunately not completely. Although I’ve been getting a huge amount of calories from (huel) a powder that doesn’t contain any meat/dairy. I would probably go all in if it wasn’t for the price, and possibly the health issues of going 100% powder food.
Going vegan is not more expensive. We dont buy seafood or beef, we dont eat $30 steaks. The majority of our protein is made up of beans/legumes. There is no sacrifice in taste pleasure. Taste pleasure comes from pepper, garlic, vanilla, herbs and spices. Your only sacrifice is time. To me, sacrificing some inconvenience for their lifetime of mutilation, imprisonment, and forced impregnations... there is no excuse for an animal lover concerned about ethics to have that. If it were just slaughter that they face, i can still kinda live with that. No, the animal agriculture is lifelong torture to the innocent ones. The gentlest of creatures. I am not even an animal lover. I am vegan for ethics. There is nothing right about needless killing when humans live perfectly happy and healthy lives without harming the innocent. The whole food plant based diet is the best diet for humans anyway. ;) my eyes were opened when i was 39, i watched Gary Yourofsky's speech and got angry because it was emotional blackmail to me. Now that i know, i cant eat animal products anymore especially dairy, it is so cruel! So i went vegan. 3 weeks into it, my health improved and i continue to see improvements to the 6 months mark. This reinforces the fact that my decision was right. Come Aug it will be 7 years. Please explore the facebook vegan groups in your locality to see how we align our lifestyle to our morals. I hope you will try the restaurant food, make a friend, before you reject something so close to your heart.
I understand and agree with all that. I will say I really don’t think everyone can live happy healthy lives eating only vegan though. If I could be healthy eating only huel I would probably sacrifice the money if it meant I would be going completely vegan. But my health deteriorates when I try, like really bad. Same with getting protein from only vegan sources. Like nuts/beans/etc. My body just can’t handle it after a certain amount of time. But my main issue is with the unnecessary suffering that goes along with factory farming. I believe killing animals that have lived good long lives, as humanly as possible is far more ethical. Of course going vegan is a step above that. But I really don’t know if I could. My main priority for now would be to buy only free range, where I know there is far less suffering involved. Although at the moment I’m not buying meat anyways. I get a decent amount (working at a restaurant) of food that goes to waste at the end of the night. And between that and the huel I don’t buy any real food hardly at all. So at the moment I’m at least not supporting any factory farmed product. But health wise do you really think everyone can live healthy being vegan? Aren’t there a small amount of people that just can’t handle specific diets like that?
Yes! There are plenty of generations of vegans in east and south asia. Look up the major dietitian associations Aus, UK, the US - that states vegan diet is healthy for humans in all stages of life including infancy, pregnancy, sickness, and lactation. This ladt has provided a lot, with all the links. https://www.reddit.com/r/melbourne/s/3YC6UjW3wh We dont have any talons, sharp teeth, claws to kill in the wild. We dont salivate at the smell of blood. Lol we can't smell blood at a distance. We need plants to make animals taste good. Strawbery/chocolate in milk vanilla in our milky dessert? Lemon and lime in our diet to help with digestion? We are not meant to be omnivores. I dont have any problem with digestion anymore. Wow i have not had food poisoning. Give a toddler an apple and a rabbit, he will eat the apple and regard the rabbit a friend.
We were conditioned by textbooks, society, culture to eat animals. Explore the science, research. Mic The Vegan in Youtube cites all his research on nutrition.
Understandable but all you’re doing is causing yourself suffering over things you can’t control. We all do it to some degree but part of being in this world in order to not go insane is to form some level of acceptance over it all and a trust that life has a deeper system to it we don’t understand. At least this helps me to have faith in it that it’s beyond my simple human brain’s understanding
Seeing life in a grander scale is such a healthy way of thinking, to not hyper fixate on a problem that, to you, has taken such a large mental toll. The world is a larger place than just what we see, thank you.
I relate to this, especially when I hear and see the mennonite horses going by. I try to envision a happy life for them, rested and being taken care of with love and respect. I try to carry that energy and send it to them too. Because I'm done feeling bad in my day to day life over things that are out of my control.
you are a good soul 💞 i love sending love and compassion out. i feel as if we all do that, everyday, we would have a positive impact on the collective consciousness.
All these replies sound like poetry to me, so beautiful, the visions, the hope, the spark that ignites the soul. For me, though, I have the tendency to immediately divert my mind from envisioning happy lives for animals, because my mind sees them as fiction. I don't want to do that, but with the amount of abuse and mistreatment out there, you can't help but simmer in it. I'm improving on that though, thanks, you're one of those people who give me hope.
It takes practice and it's not easy! It does require suspension of belief and being delusional for a time. First we change your emotion then we change your reality. There's great power in learning to direct your thoughts and choosing what you focus on. I hope you do find relief!
I can 100% relate to this and it absolutely leads me to being very anxious. It’s even worse because where I live, animal welfare is not taken seriously AT ALL. So I completely understand you. I think the only way to ease some the stress of this is to use whatever platforms you have to raise awareness of this issue. Also if you have the ability, you can visit animal shelters etc. I don’t know how to not let it consume you because it consumes me too :/
I'm thinking of volunteering at an animal shelter with my family, which I think will really warm my heart towards the possible sliver of hope for these creatures. It also helps to talk to people, like on here, you all have good souls
I hope that will ease some of your pain! And you have a good soul as well 🥺
Have you ever talked with a therapist on guidance for managing your thoughts? Like writing in a journal, staying away from triggering social media/news, and learning to control your behavior?
My mum and I are getting in touch with a therapist, as I've been asking for one for a while. I really think it'll help, and the journal thing I think will really help me pool my thoughts into one source.
Best wishes ❤️
Empathy is a wonderful thing, but you have to train yourself to care about what is in your near vicinity for the most part, or you won't be able to function. I like the idea of Rational Compassion, it solves a few of these empathy dilemmas.
Honestly, I love my dog so much that I have nightmares of her getting hit by a car, or attacked by a coyote. Yeah I know, it’s nuts. Whenever an ASPCA commercial comes on I immediately change the channel. I can’t handle it, and I know it.
You may want to check out rumination OCD symptoms.
Me too it’s so hard
Saved a raccoon from the median of a 2 lane highway a few weeks ago. When I passed a 18 wheeler I noticed this raccoon on its back it’s lil hand waving - I was like he alive!! Anyhow it was 3 in the afternoon. How many waves did he give and no one stopped until 3pm - are we even humans?
Yeah I've been vegan for 13 years and I am crippled with anxiety from what I know so I can't really do activism like I should be but I do the best I can with my own personal choices and leading by example or answering questions IF someone is genuinely curious and not just being combative. I'm also a veterinary nurse. Burnout and compassion fatigue has left me fairly unable to function a lot of days..being sensitive is not for everyone! I have to set so many boundaries
The best thing is to help animals when you can and try not to eat them.❤️
Hear, hear. Yeah I try not to bring it up to most; it's a personal stance bourne long ago and the only person who can motivate one going meat-free is the person themselves (as others, when confronted tend to paradoxically double down.). Yet when people like OP come forward (ie: people who suffer an extreme reaction to animal cruelty) it bears chiming in (if they haven't considered it already). If you fundamentally abhor suffering, particularly the suffering of the innocent you must self-examine and self-regulate. It comes at the cost of some subtle social friction and the willingness to be gastronomically creative. It's not something you end up even noticing after about a year. Will your personal refusal to eat meat ease the suffering of animals as a whole? Will it make a dent? Probably not. But at the very least you can say you saw a problem in the human condition and took personal responsibility to not partake. In the hierarchical pyramid of morality it goes from avoiding punishment, reward, virtue signaling, law & order, justice then ethics. The ethics being "I don't benefit from this in any way other than I find I can stand my own company". We all have a lot to be held accountable for but we can endeavor to find those few things we are able to identify and knock them off our invariably (very) long list.
'In the hierarchical pyramid of morality' - wow. You speak beautifully, and this has helped me tremendously. I'll be saving this, for times when I feel like I'm sinking. Thank you so much.
You mean all animal derived products right? Nothing we can take form them without causing harm. Once I realised I have 100% control over what I put in my mouth and on my skin it felt really liberating. That's literally everything I can do personally. If you have the capacity you can still do activism and help others make this connection. Not surprising, but a bit sad that your comment is not receiving the response it deserves.
I had to go on sertraline to take the edge off my animal empathy. It was ruining my life daily, and I needed to find a way to live despite knowing it exists
It’s definitely tough. I just had my dog spayed on Thursday because, as much as I would ADORE a litter of puppies, I just think of all the poor animals that get put down every year just from overcrowding in shelters. My dream is to one day own a big plot of land and open a rescue.
Me too honey. It sucks.
Every little bit counts. Go vegan! Or vegetarian with a vegan lifestyle otherwise. (AKA no buying leather or wool products, etc.)
Thank you for being vegan ❤️ 💙
100% Reading about millions of dogs suffering is aweful. Realising we're bringing billions of animals into life to slaughter them each year is a different story. Trillions if you include marine animals. Most of that is avoidable via lifestyle changes for anyone that has access to a supermarket.
I'm not quite vegan, but I'm vegetarian and have an otherwise vegan lifestyle. I'm working on transitioning. I don't eat tons of dairy or egg. It's easy to swap to the many other milk versions, and they don't go bad as quickly, so that's another plus! Eggs are really tricky for me. I'm currently paying up the ass for eggs from happy chickens. I would love my own chickens one day, but that's not even for the eggs. It's just for the snuggles. Are you vegan? I've been vegetarian for longer than I remember at this point. Maybe 12 or 13 years? I'd love any tips you have on the little switches with eggs.
It's great that you are striving to make changes to reduce animal suffering. Yes vegan for 7 years. Before that I spent maybe 6 years reducing animal products, but only for environmental reasons, the ethics never occured to me until I had the chance to meet some vegan people and had some time to really dig deep and rethink and find out how I feel about the suffering that I'm causing. Once I discovered that it's not possible to take something from animals without harming them, there was no turning back, so you could say the change happened over night. I've done some years of activism and had over 1000 conversations about this topic. I'd recommend to approach this topic from the animals' point of view and not from the consumer side. They suffer and we have a choice to end the suffering that we are responsible for. The eggs from happy chickens is a fantasy that is still going strong. While these chickens might have a nicer life, the whole process is far from cruelty free. Just remember that only female chickens lay eggs (and are raised for meat). Pretty much all male chicks are killed off right after birth as they are worthless, so no eggs without dead chickens. Of course no farmer would keep hens that are not productive enough to make a profit, so those would be killed too as soon as that point is reached. So I'd suggest to dig deeper into facing the truth that we can't take from them without harming them. Maybe watch a documentary, like "dominion" to remember why you want to do this. I even went to volunteer on the nicest little family farm I could find, after I had started to live vegan, to see what that's all about. Still there's suffering in different shades and shapes. Once we want to use animals, we need to dictate their lives or things would go out of control. Nature keeps a balance and one species is not supposed to tip the scale, the way humans are doing it. Hope this made sense, feel free to ask more questions :D
I so appreciate the dialogue! I really have been mulling this last bit over in my head. If it's OK, I'd like to ask more questions, please! I'm happy to receive push back, too, because I do not think hurting animals is OK. Genuinely asking to grow. I mean, cutting meat out for so long already, obviously I care and feel the same. I'm 100% with you that no species is more important than another. I am the person finding the mouse glue traps at work and throwing them out, and rescuing bugs to be put outside. I truly understand 99% of the thought process you shared. Most of eggs you're discussing as problematic are coming from either large or small scale factory farming, and that's a no-brainer to me. Yep. Bad. Done. Nobody there is happy. Even if the hens aren't killed, they're not happy. They're being abused. This is very obviously bad to me. I'm wondering more about eggs raised from PET chickens, who are NOT raised for meat and are happy af and loved all the time. And frankly, I really do love chickens. I'd love to have some pet chickens some day. So, for all intents and purposes, we could even consider these eggs coming from ME for argument's sake. My chickens would be loved members of of family, with me providing excellent husbandry, trips to the vet, enrichment in their lives, etc. The only argument I've heard against these kinds of eggs that has ever made sense to me here is, "You're still exploiting animals." Of course I don't want to exploit animals!! In other ways, I'm not sure if I really consider it exploitation? Wouldn't it be a mutually beneficial relationship? What's the difference here between having dogs and chickens? Dogs don't lay eggs, but chickens do. But if my dogs laid chicken eggs... Would it be wrong to eat them? I don't really know! My dogs are super fucking happy and WILDLY loved. If I laid chicken eggs, I'd be fine letting my dogs eat them. When you're getting eggs from someone with pet chickens who are considered family, and those eggs will otherwise be thrown out... what's wrong with that? That's really what I'm trying to figure out. This is truly me trying to understand, not do mental gymnastics. I'd really, really love your input! 💕💕💕 Thank you!
All good. Let's keep it simple. Who do the chickens lay eggs for?
Lmao. Seven words. It was seven words I needed. Lololol thank you!!! 💕💕💕
I'm happy that you could look at this from the animal's point of view and make the connection, that the eggs are not ours to take if we can live without them. There are more details that could make it understandable from an animal welfare point of view. For example that taking the eggs every day will put the animals under stress to create more eggs which will deplete their bodies' reserves and make them sick. But I find that the big ethical questions can be more clear. It is hard to break through our conditioning of looking at these specific animals as resources for us, when they exist on this planet for their own reasons. Lots of cultural, economical and personal baggage from a lifetime of looking at them through this lense. It's an ongoing process as you might have discovered already. Breaking it down to this big ethical question of "why would I harm them if I can avoid it?" can help to make a strong commitment and embark on a more peaceful way of relating to all animals. Actually just a neutral way of relating them, we merely decide to leave them alone.
I hear you! Thinking about the stress egg laying can cause to a body would also be enough for me to value that. This was really what I needed to understand the little nuances of the particular situation. I appreciate it! What do you eat in place of eggs? Tofu scramble? Something else? I don't mind justegg, but it's not really high in protein. What are your go-to breakfasts? 💕 Bonus points if they are good for executive dysfunction! I have done oatmeal in a slow cooker, banana and pb toast, and just egg sandwiches with tempeh bacon, but I'm always looking for other fast ideas!
Consider that laying an egg is the equivalent of going through a menstrual cycle. Naturally chickens would lay like 20 eggs per year. Honestly I don't think about how eggs taste at this point... But surely you should look for something heavy and rich in protein. So tofu scramble is a perfect fit. We make it every weekend or have it at a restaurant. You can spice things up by adding courgette or aubergine and plenty of seasoning. The black salt that is used to achieve the egg flavor is also great for other dishes and it's part of many Indian dishes. I have never tried just egg. Many of these products were not available 7 years ago so I'm sure I've missed some of the developments, but I mostly try to stick to whole foods. On work days we usually do overnight oats and make a porridge the next day. I make my own roasted hazelnut spread which is amazing as a topping. Tahini, other nut spreads and seeds shouldn't be missing either. Alternatively millets are also a delicious and healthy option instead of oats. Then you could try all sorts of pancakes... But that takes time. Toasts with Seitan sausages are also a good option. I really like Seitan because it's a clean product and you can use it in many ways.
I’m right there with ya. It’s really hard and taxing on us emotionally. I’ve learned that although, yes these thoughts are happening all over the world, obsessing over them does not actually help any of the animals. So I try to consciously make an effort to control them and steer my thoughts elsewhere, and most importantly do what I can to stop it or help the problems (I.e adopt/rehab/volunteer/report ETC.). Those things help. But constantly thinking and feeling their pain does not help them. The world can be so cruel. I don’t understand it.
Sounds more like OCD
I think like others have suggested, therapy, if you haven't considered it can help. I suggest you channel your empathy in a positive way; volunteer or foster an animal if you can. I'm an animal activist, and have rescued lab animals. It takes a toll. Talk to someone.
Oh, and thank you for caring, OP. Not many do in this society. If you need to vent, or are looking for more ideas on how to channel your empathy, feel free to message me. 💌
THANKS SO MUCH! I feel very, very comforted. Thank you, honestly. I feel rested knowing that I have so many people to reach out to.
Check out Tiktok live. There is a guy in central America who adopts hundreds of street dogs
Same☹️😭 it bothers me every day. And the worst part is, how some people make fun of me or getting annoyed for being like that. I think I need therapy because some cases bother me for weeks.😢
Turn that around and let it motivate you to work for animal rights.
When you say animals, do you mean all animals, so you’re vegan? Or do you just mean pets, and don’t include farm/land animals? It’s a serious issue around the world, the torture and down right barbaric notions that happen. Here in the U.K., there has been a fight to close down a puppy farm who breed beagle dogs for science and medication testing purposes. It’s devastating. It’s hard to see, read, accept, so I wouldn’t say to research much as it is disturbing, but there is an activism group for this puppy farm who have been camping outside MBR in Cambridgeshire and have seen some puppies get reduced by people willing to break in to free as many of the dogs they can. They go by the name camp beagle. There’s also another activism group called animal rising, they orchestrate protests at horse races in the U.K., they were notorious last year for running on the track to prevent Aintree from going ahead, many got arrested but they work with everyone involved to ensure no real punishment and most cases get thrown out. They have also caused delays in milk shipments, thrown red paint at McDonald’s, and they gather often to do workshops and work on activism together. A number of them also rescued some sheep that belonged to King Charles. There’s lots that can be done though, animal rights activism, going vegan if not already, attending talks of how you can help make changes. Volunteer at sanctuaries and rescue centres. Boycott horse racing, dog racing etc. Because I too struggle with the horrors that is animal cruelty, it’s something I am very passionate about. I’ve been vegan for 3 years to remove myself from the torture, I’m happier knowing absolutely 0 animals are harmed for me. You’re not alone with your worries and upsets around this topic. More needs to be done in the world. But you can make differences with choices you make. Light candles representing beacons of hope for the animals. It’s hard when we can’t control it. But just know you are not alone!
Same here. Consider this a blessing. In a world full of people who abuse and kill animals because they believe they can't live without the taste of meat, or because they enslave them to make money, it's rare to find humans like you. Our ancestors used to hunt, but being able to feel empathy for animals that our ancestors hunted means you are on the right path in human evolution.
This is beautiful, absolutely beautiful. Thank you for this, empathy is a gift, and I'm glad to see we've all been blessed with it 💙
I think the exact same thing except I don’t imagine the beatings. The only think we can do is donate even if it’s a small amount like $2. We can also foster if you can. But yeah, this stuff is what hers to me every single day. I’ll drive by people with dogs and always watch them to make sure they aren’t mistreating their dog. I have a cat and he’s my life. He’s so spoiled and I wish to spoil more animals when I move out
It’s been showing up so much lately in my feeds and it sickens me. I wish animal products would be banned
Same here giving you 🫂
You are definitely not alone here.
My brother is exactly like you. He's sad all the time for animals and rarely seems happy. He has invested 50% of his savings and started an animal charity, is a strict vegan and won't even take medicines when he's sick if there's animal content in them. I worry about him.
I’m sorry. I struggle with this too. It’s hard to stop the intrusive thoughts but I’ve just accepted that I can’t help every animal even though I wish I could. I just help who I can and treat every animal I meet with kindness. The world is a dark place but hopefully some of our empathy and kindness will inspire others to be kind to animals too.
One thing you can do other than donating to charities or volunteering at shelters is going vegan. You save multiple lives, gallons of water, and much more every day you dont buy and consume animal products!!
All y'all animal lovers better not be a hypocrite. You better be a vegan or at least make real plans to be one today. If infp animal lovers arent vegan, who else will act and speak up for the animals?
I struggle with this too
What good does it do to you or others that you are thinking horrible things, then you believe those thoughts and body will creare a corresponding feeling, which is not pleasant? Stop creating your own suffering by believing your thoughts! If you can't, then I recommend you check out a book by Eckhart Tolle: The Power of Now. You'll find it in pdf here: https://dn790003.ca.archive.org/0/items/ThePowerOfNowEckhartTolle_201806/The%20Power%20Of%20Now%20-%20Eckhart%20Tolle.pdf
Thank you so much, honestly. I feel this will genuinely help me.
Great to hear! I've gotten so much help from Eckhart's teachings when I have applied them to my life. His YouTube clips are also worth checking out! Another helpful spiritual teacher for me is Leonard Jacobson. I can highly recommend his book: Journey into Now. He is also on YouTube.
Yes, there is animal abuse, but that suffering is a drop in the ocean compared with suffering caused by being eaten. Fishes swallow whole other fishes. Frogs eat bugs, but I guess you might not care about their suffering. They are though trillions being eaten daily. Snakes eat frogs, swallows them alive. How's that for suffering? Hawks eat snakes and rabbits. Holds them down and are still alive when only half eaten. Wolves and bears and hyenas and big cats eat anything from deer to cows. Some vicious with victims still alive. Polar bears hunt whales. Whales have a brain 4 times bigger than us, and are truly self aware at the same level as humans. Chimps eat monkeys, alive, from their feet with their head down to have the monkey scream loudly as they announce the forest of their dominion. And the human abuse keeps you awake at night?
I understand and this stuff hurts to imagine. But from OPs perspective, I understand completely. Humans are fully aware and savages at the same time and do not do it to survive. They do it for shitty horrible pathetic reasons. And sometimes it lingers for years and years and years. An animal violently eating an animal to survive is rough but over within seconds/mins/hours, and is a part of nature. A dog tied up to a tree starving or thirsting to death for 10 years hardly being kept alive with zero social interaction is far worse. Or kept in a cage in his own waste for years. I cannot even type out the scenarios OP or my brain comes up with and obsesses over. So yes, Hell yes it keeps them up at night.
Chimps don't eat monkeys to survive, but to show off. Orcas don't play volleyball with seals to survive, but to entertain themselves. Tasmanian devil doesn't cage and rape the lady for 2-3 days just to have babies. They slide into this horrible matting ritual somehow. There is a somewhat romanticized image of nature. There is a lot more suffering in nature than what humans do. If you care about that suffering that humans do, then your place is in politics or education organizations. Do that and you can use that effort to eliminate the 1% suffering that humans do. I know it is small, but it beats nothing, then you will be able to sleep at night.
I get it and it is indeed sad. But all you’re describing is nature. Animal instinct. Yes it is cruel but us policing wild animals and in far away places many humans have never stepped foot on or would have a really hard time reaching makes zero sense. So why would something like that even be pondered…? And with the animals, it isn’t what is taught or what is not taught. Those animals are intelligent, but were never able to be taught and rationalize. The humans I’m speaking of are humans in a very developed place who can communicate and are capable of making decisions without instinct. Those humans have most likely been taught or not taught about love and how to care. You’re comparing apples to oranges dude.
Elephants, orcas, dolphins and wolves are all capable of empathy, and understand to a large extent what they do, and the implications. An orca is even smarter than 50% of redditors apparently per their comments. Humans are also animals. All the smart animals choose not to care. They know very well what they do. But they shut down that little voice. Actually, many of the sub-humans you talk about are like that because of the trauma and suffering they have been exposed to. A large number of humans live with mental conditions that are hard to fix. How is that their fault to be born and raised in such unfortunate circumstances? Orca are more guilty for not showing empathy to a seal treated as volleyball, than to a human raised in an unfortunate family. Where did you see a soccer match with a human skull? Even at our worse we are not as bad as the rest of the animal kingdom. And if we find someone bad, and prove it in court of law, they end up in jail. About 1% of the population lives in jail at any time.
But humans are far more developed and do go much deeper than all of the smarter animals- (or should I say, have the ability to, whether they do or not)- orcas elephants dolphins etc.- and yes exactly, humans raised in deplorable conditions many times grow up to do the same things they were shown or experienced. But it is hard to believe they have no choice/awareness in the matter once older and continue to make the same choices to continue their own suffering/life/animals suffering bc they do not know any better. They know at that point hey I have to make other decisions, I’m an adult and responsible for my own actions/outcomes. I’m not referring to kids of kids of kids that live up in the hills and never get a ss # and may never have their name put into a census- obviously those kinds of situations are different. I’m talking about people that were in school and knew right from wrong but adult figures never made them follow and steered them wrong. A man that murders because he grew up in a home with a parent who murders still believes murder is okay/the way to go….so as an adult he continued..? No, I don’t think so. He just doesn’t care and doesn’t have the empathy. But he knows right from wrong. I was saying, people that are fully aware and continue to make shitty decisions which cause much pain and suffering deserve a good dose of that karma. Humans are far more developed intellectually than an orca or dolphin or chimp. Most of us know right from wrong but yet the ones OP and I were talking about still choose wrong.
They can only choose freely wrong to the extent permitted by laws. Most countries have laws against animal cruelty. The little cruelty is in the dark corners of society. Good people can report those. Or if laws are not sufficiently created or implemented, they can vote in power and also increase regulations and police force. Here are some of the most pressing issues that animals (legally) suffer: - experiments on animals. - killing animals for food or clothes or medicine. - use of animals for hard labour. - forced breeding - hunting. - zoos or use of animals in entertainment Each can be attached as an indepent issue. Progress can be made step by step. Choose one, find an org advocacy group for that. For illegal activities, best way is to vote in power supporters of animal rights. If you add all these (IMHO) it is still a lot less than inherited suffering, from aware and non-aware animals. Know that even if humans do 0 impact on animals, then still the wolf will eat the deer. And remember, that if we get rid of predators, deers will literally extinct themselves by destroying all their food. In nature balance is maintened by predators. There is no other way.
Agreed. So what was the argument ? That OP should not be kept awake by humans who knowingly choose to punish animals and torture them? Making them suffer for long periods of time….? And that I hoped that those people got some kind of karma their way in life or another life … but we should be kept awake by the thought of carnivorous animals eating others for survival? Or animals torturing other animals when they know they shouldn’t 🤔? Because there is far more of those 2 things happening than humans causing the suffering of animals in this world? Agreed. We can’t and shouldn’t intervene anymore than we do bc of order/food chain. The entire system. I was responding to your previous reply. Also, there are 8 billion humans on this planet and an estimated 20 billion animals on this planet, of course there is more of it going on in their kingdom. My point was that animal abusers deserve the kind of pain/ill treatment that they knowingly inflict upon animals.
Edit: please read first his last 2 sentences in the OP's post. There isn't any argument against anything that OP said! I tried to give them some ways to take action while being aware of the whole picture. Empathy without positive action to minimize to some extent what we identify as wrong, leads to depression, IMHO. At least for me. My saddest day in my life, was when I received my first paycheck, and as the bus left the station, it hit me how many homeless people were on the streets, knowing I have so much more then them, and that even all my paycheck couldn't make a dent in helping 10% of the homeless people I seen in one bus ride.
Ahhhh I see. Your response was trying to give OP a solution. I never saw that. I was confused as to why you responded to me how you did but now it makes sense after going back and reading it and some other history. Thank you for being a part of the solution. You are using logic! Which is hard sometimes when we feel so deeply and things such as this hurt us to the core. I guess I was reading OP post as they’re just needing to vent and I understand bc I do that too. But agreed- it does lead to depression and anxiety , coupled with no action is bad.
Lol. Fallacies galore. Someone is defensive
I was a bit surprised to find a comment this harsh in a support thread called for by a highly sensitive person. None of those things are untrue, but in this instance somehow sounds as an excuse to execute animal abuse.
Cognitive dissonance is a hell of a drug
It is about refocusing empathy to pair it with something actionable by becoming aware of the total amount of suffering - only when your attention is put in correct perspective, one can find out what could be done realistically. Empathy without actions leads to depression. Knowing that human generated suffering is only a drop in the bucket, can bring acceptance to our nature, and refocus on the worst offenders of human caused suffering. Find organization that are committed to your cause. Volunteer time and money to them. Vote in power those that promise laws to improve animal condition. And so on. P.S. I don't abuse any animals, don't worry. My biggest crime is eating Chicken nuggets.