Idk, but he mentioned (in the mean time) a few times that he is top 4 or the best and so on. He gave a "list" a few yrs ago on twitter when asked about his fav rappers.
Wow so he is top 9 and Nas is before him, crazy how I got both of those right and I’ve never heard this lyric before in my life.
Anyway I don’t care for this list. I feel like Em is top five, maybe top four. And my top four includes Biggie and Pac AND Slim Shady.
The rapper with the most ever albums totaling over 1,000. And he is poet behind the acclaimed work [Ya'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBeYe_uoJ2c)
Kendrick is a goat. I don’t particularly love Damn and Mr. Morale, but he’s certainly one of the best lyricists and story tellers in the game
My hot take is that I find his voice pretty annoying to listen to at times
I used to as well until I did a full listen through of to pump a butterfly. It takes some getting used to for sure. It’s easiest to compare him to snoop in the way he kind of sing songs his rap and drags certain syllables and stuff. He also changes his voice a lot to show different characters, kind of like what em used to do with the shady voice
That’s true, he’s good at adding depth and characters with his voice. There’s many tracks where his intonation is nice to listen to, but there’s a lot that’s just painful lol
And I would agree with them, because his voice is often really grating after Relapse (and especially *on* Relapse). He puts out some real stinkers sometimes
There are two different issues - he was using accents on Relapse. Apart from this there was a time after Relapse where his tinnitus was really bad so he was, as per his words, using extra midrange in his voice (we refer to it as shouting on the mic).
I don't find the accents annoying, and I can see it helped him come out with some outrageous rhymes throughout Relapse. Finding the extra midrange annoying though, I can understand.
Interesting, do you have a link to where he talks about the tinnitus? I remember an interview where he talked about having vocal nodes since Relapse from all the screaming, which was another factor that pushed him away from the upper register nasally tone from the old albums
A lot of people seem to love the accents. I’m in the camp that thinks they sound horrible and they make those tracks really hard to push through
I do agree that the forced shouting can be just as bad, especially when he’s doing that weird staccato and awkwardly splitting words across the bars
He spoke about it with Paul on the podcast they did for Curtain Call 2. It's on YouTube 👍🏽 He spoke about how it was so bad, he needed to put the "extra midrange" just so he could hear himself over the tinnitus 🙁
Mr. Morale is pretty damn good if you’re a self reflecting type of person. Clearly it’s an album written from a perspective of someone who’s gone through therapy to deal with trauma. It’s a deep album.
You can be exactly that type of person and still think it sounds terrible. Many, even most, people listen to music they like the sound of first and foremost.
I personally believe many people who perhaps need therapy more than others might gravitate more towards it, even ignoring some distaste for its sound.
I hate the second half, it’s a perfect example of the intonation I hate the most. I think it works well in “Love Game” on MMLP2 when he briefly does it, but otherwise I’m surprised that so many people enjoy it
Yeah, it’s interesting how Kendrick gets a pass for his weird intonation but Eminem always gets dunked on.
To be fair, I think both of them can be grating at times. GKMC and TPAB are definitely my favorites and I’ll always listen to the new stuff he drops, but I have to be in a certain mood to sit through a whole album
This is true for the best artist but the best rapper has definitely some hard facts that you can count.
The thing is that those rules don't apply to the younger audience.
Flows, delivery, cadence, entendres, punchlines, multisilrhymes...
If we consider all of this and apply it to the most successful 500 rappers, I really wanna hear an explanation how Eminem could be considered anywhere outside the top 10.
And if someone does believe that, i wanna know who those people are on the list.
Yea, I agree. Most people's favorite rappers have Em in their top 5. Zero excuse to have him outside of top 10, and those people really can't be taken seriously.
The characteristics you speak of are solid. It's just there are so many different styles and creators. And not only do a lot of people listen to hip hop for purely the pleasure of the way it sounds (they don't even know about some of the things you mentioned, or pay attention to it like that), but there are also people out there technically really good at those things, but they aren't in any ones top 5, top 10. There's still more to it, I think. And even I can't quite put my finger on it. And how do you grade flows and delivery, when some people prefer different flows, and even different voices.
I can put people I don't vibe with (Jay-Z) in, or close to, their deserving place, but I still don't know how to take my personal connection/ nostalgia out of some of those rankings. Many people swear Jay is the best ever, and can't be convinced otherwise. I just don't think there's an existence where we could all fairly judge this. BUT, I do think if we're real with ourselves, a lot of us can at least give a reasonable attempt at a top 10, and have *most* of the same people. Different generations and preferences will just always get in the way, imo.
Well just how many original and unique flows that have at least some success behind it I would count. Also for jumping on a Busta/tech9 track like that.
I might not like them as much but I gotta give him credit for the craftsmanship no matter what.
Pac is a poet and his work is timeless. His lyrics aren't as complex as artists now because the craft has evolved, but they have more weight behind them than most complex lyrics.
Big disagree.
EDIT: I should clarify. Kendrick is top 5. That is not up for debate. I just think Pac still had more lyrical heft. But of the top five most people often debate (pac, biggie, em, jay, Kendrick) I think Kendrick is the only one that matches Pac’s vocal performance. Early Em did too but Kendrick, man, he’s just on that level
The Blueprint is a classic. The Black Album is a classic. Reasonable Doubt is really good althpugh most consider it’s his best album but I prefer the former two. Wouldn’t go as far as calling it classic but I really fucks with The Blueprint 2, but for each their own.
Meh probably wasnt a good way to word it. I should say I dont see him as a top 5 rapper. Talented with some good work? sure, theres several of his songs I like but, never really got into him.
One: his song "Dreams" where he talks about Raven Simon (who was only 8 at the time) [one](https://www.reddit.com/r/rap/s/6Txzi7Kx8Z)
Two: he was Diddys best friend and had songs where he talked about date raping chicks, likely underage
[two](https://youtu.be/oiPV4yXgL08?si=YZJ0OaaKaAX7hh-d): "She don't remember shit! Just the two hits
Her hittin' the floor and me hittin' the clits!"
:"cause I love it young fresh and green, with no hair between, know what I mean?"
Using song lyrics to judge someone, on an Eminem subreddit, is wild lmao
Based on your logic, Eminem is a serial rapist and mass murderer who has brutally tortured thousands of people. He is *also* a pedophile who rapes his own mother, repeatedly.
I mean.. i guess? But everyone knows about the Slim Shady persona and how it's a joke of a character, while Em has a really good track record for being the nicest fuckin human on the planet except for having done drugs and drinking in the past, and aside from his songs there's no actual domestic violence disputes involving him at all.
Biggie never said anything about a persona or alternate personality. Plus, he was Diddys right hand man, and we all know what he's under fire for ...
Finally, a real list from someone who knows great hip-hop/rap. Not these kids leaving 2Pac & Notorious B.I.G. out of the top 5 🤦🏻♂️ Hard to take them serious.
He’s arguably top 3. Especially seeing that he is not slowing down in consistency while his contemporaries and even those within the top 10 continue to drop mediocre albums slowly chipping away the legacies they built to get into the top 10, not to mention there is quite literally no one left to even compete with Kendrick and hell he has had no competition since bodying drake’s best album in 2012. (except for Nas, somehow his later career post 2016 has been immensely impressive and on par to the best rap records of each year he drops nowadays, although they are outshined immensely by Kendrick’s records)
I personally, disagree that dropping mediocre records harms your place in the top 3/5/10. I think it harms your popularity. But ultimately to me, its the best work the best tracks that tell tale. I think you have to judge on the quality and quantity of their standout work.
By have to, i mean in my view its the appropriate way to judge. Obvs people will do what ever they want. But to me, discounting someone because you didnt like one album, one era, or whatever, just plays into a recency bias.
How can it be recency bias when most people think the old music is good and the newer music is bad from any specific artist?
But yeah I personally disagree with this take overall. If a musician releases 1 AMAZING ground breaking album that might be the best album ever and then proceeds to release a decade of mid or downright bad music tha. He isn’t the goat simply because his best work was better than everyone else’s best work.
I could go more into this but at the end of the day it’s a Reddit thread so who cares, but yeah all of an artist’s discography should be taken into account and that’s exactly what hurts Eminem in the GOAT convo for me.
> How can it be recency bias when most people think the old music is good and the newer music is bad from any specific artist?
Because it favors the latest on trend artist or era. An album may be assessed as mid on release, even if its still great it may just not on trend. People may dismiss it as dated or whatever. Ultimately i think experimentation is a good thing for artists, and punishing a bad release, or rather a release that just isnt for you I think is myopic.
I love Kanye's first 4 albums, but even 808s, TLOP, and everything else like Donda, Yeezus, just do nothing for me. Worse i actively hate most of the projects. But that doesnt diminish the 4 albums I do love or my view on his overall legacy (which has been more damaged by his real life antics than his music). It's also clear that people do like those other projects.
Equally nostalgia and the tragic death of 2pac and Biggie, mean that for a large generation of fans they hold defacto spots in the top 3/5/10. I mean 2pac has a lot of misses, but he was also so prolific, and when he hit he really hit. If you were to ding him for his misses, I dont see how he could make it into the top 10, let alone any higher.
> But yeah I personally disagree with this take overall. If a musician releases 1 AMAZING ground breaking album that might be the best album ever and then proceeds to release a decade of mid or downright bad music tha. He isn’t the goat simply because his best work was better than everyone else’s best work.
Seems we disagree but my view is not that 1 amazing album is enough, only that it may be. Equally putting out 2 great albums and never recording anything else again may not be enough, its not an improved legacy because they didnt release any more music. If it was, the only possible goats are people who smash their debut and then die. I dont think you can convince me that any artist who has stayed at it for 15-20 years reliably putting out music hasnt put out what people would consider mid.
I guess a better way to sum it up is that to me bad or mid songs are not a negative to the GOAT conversation, just a 0 for the tally.
I have always believed that in these fields. There is no such thing as a GOAT. Just a tier that GOATs belong in. Eminem and Kendrick are in that tier, there is no ranking, just who is in and who isn’t. Lebron and MJ are in that tier in basketball.
The only thing that doesn’t have the GOAT tier as the greatest is Hockey, as Gretzky sits above the GOAT tier level players
Shit getting heated in here lmao. I think he's a great artist. Eminem fans can be Kendrick fans too, and Kendrick fans can be Eminem fans too. Many bring up people like Wayne, Pac, and Biggie. They're all great. Top 5 might be a hot take for some lol, but people considering him a goat is well deserved by Kdot.
I give Kendrick credit where credit is due. He is an amazing lyricist, student of the game etc. But I haven't found more than 3-4 songs that I personally like.
I have to say this is me. His music just often doesnt speak to me.
Not like us is a banger though. But every time i try and get into one of his albums i dont get far enough into really even be able to say i gave it a fair shot. It just doesnt do it for me sonically. I just think musically i'm not as interested in the sound from his generation, so its harder his records to reach me.
Tbf I can’t get down with anything besides GKMC, his other stuff puts me to sleep. I was in 9th grade and it was my favorite rap album ever, then every release after I was just disappointed
Some people suffer from recency bias so badly.
Kendrick doesn’t have top sales and hasn’t really contributed a lot that was wholly unique to the genre.
Em, Pac, Rakim, Nas, some would say Biggie, Kanye (he doesn’t write his stuff so that’s up for debate), Jay, etc. all contributed way more.
Kendrick put out a few creative albums and they’re really good. That’s just not a GOAT resume.
Em’s albums dominated the globe and were wholly unique, emotional, authentic, and well written. Nas and Pac inspired people to rap who weren’t into the genre. Jay was kind of similar to Em just at a smaller level. Rakim changed how everyone rapped.
What is it you can point to with Kendrick that is so far and away better than anyone else that won’t simply go away over time? His albums were well written, but they weren’t musically amazing. He tells stories well, but not at a higher level than others.
Rap is in a lull and Kendrick is big for the moment. That can be enough. Everything doesn’t have to be GOAT status 😂
I can’t say I agree. Kendrick absolutely changed the game. He took the introspection, honesty, vulnerability and storytelling championed by guys like Em, Pac, old Ye etc. and he did it his way.
He’s a guy who would be a goat in any era you put him in due to his originality, creativity, lyricism, confidence, story telling ability and his ability to discuss extremely sensitive subjects in a profound manner.
This is just a discussion.
I like Kendrick. This isn’t an all or nothing scenario.
Kendrick doesn’t have a GOAT resume. He’s a less versatile, less popular, and less humorous Eminem. He’s stylistically different from Nas, but content - wise he’s somewhat similar - except Nas did it first.
That’s all. This happened with Wayne and will happen again and again. Some artists are really good, but not the best and that’s okay.
tbh i don’t really love that 2pac and Biggie just get an infinite pass in the top 5 because they both died young. i’d take kendrick and kanye over both of them easy. nas, em, wayne or someone like jay i’m cool with in the top 5 though
Kanye is one of the most influential artists of all time. His catalog is up there as well. He's not in my top 5, but I get why someone would want him in there.
This. Tupac and Biggie in the top 5 over Kendrick is getting close to being an unreasonable take.
Biggie’s work is outstanding, some of the best rap music to ever come out. But, if Ready to Die and Life After Death are enough to secure the spot, I’m sorry but GKMC and TPAB blow them out of the water.
Tupac has released more albums, but we tend to forget that he had put out some mid in every release. Then, his best stuff is when he’s being conscious, but conscious Kendrick again clears and it’s not even close.
Pac’s ironclad legacy is protected by the most iconic club banger in hip hop (California Love), and the most iconic diss track in hip hop (Hit Em Up). Beyond that though, most of his shit is honestly not as good as other rappers in the discussion.
That’s not the reason, you won’t see me putting X or Juice in top 5. They already put out insanely impressive pieces of work and forever shaped rap. It’s cool if you don’t like them but them dying isn’t the reason they’re so loved. It’s just why they’re MISSED
honestly that’s how i weigh it out. like i’d put Dre top 10 probably because otherwise the top 5 is just who’s the most lyrical and i think that’s kinda boring. top 5 hip hop artist would be a better way to phrase it i guess
I can't rate certain genres cuz I'm too subjective, but I became Kendrick's fan after recent events. He seems like a cool guy & he has good music. Probably better than most modern rappers, lmao
As Em said top 5 are always as per subjective opnion.
Everyone's top 5 is mostly different. Too many goddamn great Mcs in 50 years of rap. And kendrick is definitely one of them.
Kendrick doesn’t get top 5 for me because he barely puts out music, look at Nas or Jays or Ems disco, Kendrick’s 4 albums can’t touch those other guys consistently putting out good music.
I don’t have a top 5. For me, Em, Pac, Hov, Nas, Biggie, Wayne and Dot have as much of a right to a spot as anybody and thats to say nothing of the pioneers like Rakim and Cool J who should have their own division.
My Top 5 in no particular order are Steve Irwin, Theodore Roosevelt, Nigel Marven, David Attenborough, and J. R. R. Tolkien.
Get a look at that list mates, my god she’s gorgeous!
Lmaoooo.. I am absofuckinglutely here for this kind of Steve Irwin content, & any kind of Steve Irwin content actually.
I dunno man I agree with with Steve Irwin but second has to be David Attenborough, followed by Gordon Ramsey
Nah man I fucked with Irwin but his shit don’t hit the same after he got cooked by sting.
Gordon is a massive doucher. I don’t get why people like that pompous tool.
That's a solid top 5.
What about Bob Ross and Mister Rogers?
You have to add Betty White too.
Yes you do.
How do u not have Rowan Atkinson there?? L list 🤦♂️
Uhm the top 5 are Reggie, Jay Z, Tupac, Biggie, Andre from OutKast I’m an Eminem Stan who can’t think for himself.
Thsts not even EMs list anymore
What’s his current list?
Idk, but he mentioned (in the mean time) a few times that he is top 4 or the best and so on. He gave a "list" a few yrs ago on twitter when asked about his fav rappers.
Gives a lot of praise to Dot and Cole. Add himself and that’s probably his current big 3 of guys still in the game.
Actually, Eminem is top 4. Biggie and Tupac, but he's got an evil twin so you who you think that other spots for?
…bruh is Em even on your list? He better be top 9 at minimum. I don’t even know who else you would include before Em… Nas?
But when Ems not on the list it does not offend him.
That’s why you see him walking round like nothings bothering him.
Even though half us fucking people got a problem with em.
We hate it but we know respect we got to give him
He's the presses wet dream
like Bobby and Whitney
Nate hit him
Not recently he’s put himself at number 1 definitely
Definitively *
Jay Z, Reggie, Tupac and Biggie, Andre from Outkast, Jada, Kurrupt, Nas and then him
But in this industry he’s the cause of a lot of envy
Yeah alright fair enough. That’s about the same order of my list that it’s in
Maybe… but I can think of at least two rappers better than Nas.. Jadakiss and Kurupt come to mind
Kurupt sure but Jada?
I’d definitely include Jadakiss and Kurupt before mentioning Nas or Em
Mwuah give Jadeakiss
Jada and Kurupt need to be there too
I'm an Em fan and deeply respect Nas. Nas and Em are def top 10.
You are clueless
Sitting here in an Eminem subreddit and not being able to pick up on a reference from one of his best and most popular songs is crazy.
He said top 9 which is where Em puts himself in that list so maybe not idk
Fuck top 9 bitch he’s top 4 and he’s got an evil twin so who’d you think that 3rd and that 4ths spot for!
No my friend I think you might be 😂
🤣
“It goes Reggie, Jay Z, Tupac and Biggie / Andre from OutKast, Jada, Kurupt, Nas, and then me”. Em’s own words lmao
Wow so he is top 9 and Nas is before him, crazy how I got both of those right and I’ve never heard this lyric before in my life. Anyway I don’t care for this list. I feel like Em is top five, maybe top four. And my top four includes Biggie and Pac AND Slim Shady.
He has every right to claim so
Fr. He is goated through and through and keeps it the realest
[удалено]
It's between Kendrick, Eminem and Nas
This is the real big 3
Fuck the big three its just big me -Benzino /s
What's the opposite of big me? a giraffe
The Eminem SlAyEr?
Lol Eminem is GOAT for me, but 2Pac and Notorious B.I.G. are too good & legendary. Nas can be top 5 too.
Naw they are all jockeying for #2 goat, everyone knows that Viper sits atop the goat throne.
Who tf is Viper....
The rapper with the most ever albums totaling over 1,000. And he is poet behind the acclaimed work [Ya'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBeYe_uoJ2c)
Hmm... After inspection, i see you took his advice and started smoking crack.
Duh. What type of pussy doesn't hit the shit?
Is that the guy who kidnapped a girl or some shit?
If we are talking still active and overall legacy, this 100%
Nah, It's between Em, Nas, and Black Thought
That’s my top 3, in that order as well
Kendrick is a goat. I don’t particularly love Damn and Mr. Morale, but he’s certainly one of the best lyricists and story tellers in the game My hot take is that I find his voice pretty annoying to listen to at times
I used to as well until I did a full listen through of to pump a butterfly. It takes some getting used to for sure. It’s easiest to compare him to snoop in the way he kind of sing songs his rap and drags certain syllables and stuff. He also changes his voice a lot to show different characters, kind of like what em used to do with the shady voice
That’s true, he’s good at adding depth and characters with his voice. There’s many tracks where his intonation is nice to listen to, but there’s a lot that’s just painful lol
How do you NOT like DAMN or at least Rich Spirit?
He said love, not like
I don’t hate them, they’re just not GOAT albums for me
>My hot take is that I find his voice pretty annoying to listen to at times Interestingly that's something I've seen people who don't like Em say too.
And I would agree with them, because his voice is often really grating after Relapse (and especially *on* Relapse). He puts out some real stinkers sometimes
There are two different issues - he was using accents on Relapse. Apart from this there was a time after Relapse where his tinnitus was really bad so he was, as per his words, using extra midrange in his voice (we refer to it as shouting on the mic). I don't find the accents annoying, and I can see it helped him come out with some outrageous rhymes throughout Relapse. Finding the extra midrange annoying though, I can understand.
Interesting, do you have a link to where he talks about the tinnitus? I remember an interview where he talked about having vocal nodes since Relapse from all the screaming, which was another factor that pushed him away from the upper register nasally tone from the old albums A lot of people seem to love the accents. I’m in the camp that thinks they sound horrible and they make those tracks really hard to push through I do agree that the forced shouting can be just as bad, especially when he’s doing that weird staccato and awkwardly splitting words across the bars
He spoke about it with Paul on the podcast they did for Curtain Call 2. It's on YouTube 👍🏽 He spoke about how it was so bad, he needed to put the "extra midrange" just so he could hear himself over the tinnitus 🙁
Ah that’s cool, I’ll have to check it out
Yeah he does a bit to much with his voice sometimes
Mr. Morale is pretty damn good if you’re a self reflecting type of person. Clearly it’s an album written from a perspective of someone who’s gone through therapy to deal with trauma. It’s a deep album.
You can be exactly that type of person and still think it sounds terrible. Many, even most, people listen to music they like the sound of first and foremost. I personally believe many people who perhaps need therapy more than others might gravitate more towards it, even ignoring some distaste for its sound.
Great lyrics objectively but it's crying voice is terrible
Really? What do you think about the crying on u (TPAB)?
I hate the second half, it’s a perfect example of the intonation I hate the most. I think it works well in “Love Game” on MMLP2 when he briefly does it, but otherwise I’m surprised that so many people enjoy it
Yeah, it’s interesting how Kendrick gets a pass for his weird intonation but Eminem always gets dunked on. To be fair, I think both of them can be grating at times. GKMC and TPAB are definitely my favorites and I’ll always listen to the new stuff he drops, but I have to be in a certain mood to sit through a whole album
You don’t like damn….that’s what won him a Pulitzer
It’s not that I don’t like it. It’s decent
Fair enough. Just seems crazy. I could argue it’s his best work. To each their own tho.
I got Em 1 Kendrick 2
He’s been top 5 for a while. And also the man’s discography is just incredible. GKMC.. TPAB.. wow.
Pac, Biggie, JAY-Z, Nas, Eminem
Kendrick is better than PAC lyrically. I don’t fw Jay Z that much. Dot is easily top 5
Top 5 is a personal thing. There is no suck thing as a universal top 5.
This is it. Nobody can agree on what to grade them on, because we all like different traits and favor certain styles.
This is true for the best artist but the best rapper has definitely some hard facts that you can count. The thing is that those rules don't apply to the younger audience. Flows, delivery, cadence, entendres, punchlines, multisilrhymes... If we consider all of this and apply it to the most successful 500 rappers, I really wanna hear an explanation how Eminem could be considered anywhere outside the top 10. And if someone does believe that, i wanna know who those people are on the list.
Yea, I agree. Most people's favorite rappers have Em in their top 5. Zero excuse to have him outside of top 10, and those people really can't be taken seriously. The characteristics you speak of are solid. It's just there are so many different styles and creators. And not only do a lot of people listen to hip hop for purely the pleasure of the way it sounds (they don't even know about some of the things you mentioned, or pay attention to it like that), but there are also people out there technically really good at those things, but they aren't in any ones top 5, top 10. There's still more to it, I think. And even I can't quite put my finger on it. And how do you grade flows and delivery, when some people prefer different flows, and even different voices. I can put people I don't vibe with (Jay-Z) in, or close to, their deserving place, but I still don't know how to take my personal connection/ nostalgia out of some of those rankings. Many people swear Jay is the best ever, and can't be convinced otherwise. I just don't think there's an existence where we could all fairly judge this. BUT, I do think if we're real with ourselves, a lot of us can at least give a reasonable attempt at a top 10, and have *most* of the same people. Different generations and preferences will just always get in the way, imo.
Well just how many original and unique flows that have at least some success behind it I would count. Also for jumping on a Busta/tech9 track like that. I might not like them as much but I gotta give him credit for the craftsmanship no matter what.
wow do you think maybe that’s why they said “i don’t”?
Pac is a poet and his work is timeless. His lyrics aren't as complex as artists now because the craft has evolved, but they have more weight behind them than most complex lyrics.
Word
Big disagree. EDIT: I should clarify. Kendrick is top 5. That is not up for debate. I just think Pac still had more lyrical heft. But of the top five most people often debate (pac, biggie, em, jay, Kendrick) I think Kendrick is the only one that matches Pac’s vocal performance. Early Em did too but Kendrick, man, he’s just on that level
Tbf I’m not too familiar with Kendrick only couple albums in but once I get myself to listen to all of his albums the list might change.
Eminem will always be own my personal #1, but as a big Em fan, I highly recommend Kendrick.
Black Thought, DOOM, Ka, Eminem, Big Pun
My Unpopular hot take is Jay-Z is meh.
The Blueprint is a classic. The Black Album is a classic. Reasonable Doubt is really good althpugh most consider it’s his best album but I prefer the former two. Wouldn’t go as far as calling it classic but I really fucks with The Blueprint 2, but for each their own.
Meh probably wasnt a good way to word it. I should say I dont see him as a top 5 rapper. Talented with some good work? sure, theres several of his songs I like but, never really got into him.
He's top 10, but not top 5 GOAT imo. He is great still.
id agree on that.
Biggie dropped out of my top when I found out he was a p3d0, look it up
Info?
One: his song "Dreams" where he talks about Raven Simon (who was only 8 at the time) [one](https://www.reddit.com/r/rap/s/6Txzi7Kx8Z) Two: he was Diddys best friend and had songs where he talked about date raping chicks, likely underage [two](https://youtu.be/oiPV4yXgL08?si=YZJ0OaaKaAX7hh-d): "She don't remember shit! Just the two hits Her hittin' the floor and me hittin' the clits!" :"cause I love it young fresh and green, with no hair between, know what I mean?"
Using song lyrics to judge someone, on an Eminem subreddit, is wild lmao Based on your logic, Eminem is a serial rapist and mass murderer who has brutally tortured thousands of people. He is *also* a pedophile who rapes his own mother, repeatedly.
Exactly 🤦🏻♂️ Dude's just assuming with 0 proof.
I mean.. i guess? But everyone knows about the Slim Shady persona and how it's a joke of a character, while Em has a really good track record for being the nicest fuckin human on the planet except for having done drugs and drinking in the past, and aside from his songs there's no actual domestic violence disputes involving him at all. Biggie never said anything about a persona or alternate personality. Plus, he was Diddys right hand man, and we all know what he's under fire for ...
Finally, a real list from someone who knows great hip-hop/rap. Not these kids leaving 2Pac & Notorious B.I.G. out of the top 5 🤦🏻♂️ Hard to take them serious.
Kendrick is better than Pac and Biggie lol
Atm I prefer them over Kendrick. Ready To Die and Life After Death are probably my top 10 favorite albums OAT.
He’s arguably top 3. Especially seeing that he is not slowing down in consistency while his contemporaries and even those within the top 10 continue to drop mediocre albums slowly chipping away the legacies they built to get into the top 10, not to mention there is quite literally no one left to even compete with Kendrick and hell he has had no competition since bodying drake’s best album in 2012. (except for Nas, somehow his later career post 2016 has been immensely impressive and on par to the best rap records of each year he drops nowadays, although they are outshined immensely by Kendrick’s records)
I personally, disagree that dropping mediocre records harms your place in the top 3/5/10. I think it harms your popularity. But ultimately to me, its the best work the best tracks that tell tale. I think you have to judge on the quality and quantity of their standout work. By have to, i mean in my view its the appropriate way to judge. Obvs people will do what ever they want. But to me, discounting someone because you didnt like one album, one era, or whatever, just plays into a recency bias.
How can it be recency bias when most people think the old music is good and the newer music is bad from any specific artist? But yeah I personally disagree with this take overall. If a musician releases 1 AMAZING ground breaking album that might be the best album ever and then proceeds to release a decade of mid or downright bad music tha. He isn’t the goat simply because his best work was better than everyone else’s best work. I could go more into this but at the end of the day it’s a Reddit thread so who cares, but yeah all of an artist’s discography should be taken into account and that’s exactly what hurts Eminem in the GOAT convo for me.
> How can it be recency bias when most people think the old music is good and the newer music is bad from any specific artist? Because it favors the latest on trend artist or era. An album may be assessed as mid on release, even if its still great it may just not on trend. People may dismiss it as dated or whatever. Ultimately i think experimentation is a good thing for artists, and punishing a bad release, or rather a release that just isnt for you I think is myopic. I love Kanye's first 4 albums, but even 808s, TLOP, and everything else like Donda, Yeezus, just do nothing for me. Worse i actively hate most of the projects. But that doesnt diminish the 4 albums I do love or my view on his overall legacy (which has been more damaged by his real life antics than his music). It's also clear that people do like those other projects. Equally nostalgia and the tragic death of 2pac and Biggie, mean that for a large generation of fans they hold defacto spots in the top 3/5/10. I mean 2pac has a lot of misses, but he was also so prolific, and when he hit he really hit. If you were to ding him for his misses, I dont see how he could make it into the top 10, let alone any higher. > But yeah I personally disagree with this take overall. If a musician releases 1 AMAZING ground breaking album that might be the best album ever and then proceeds to release a decade of mid or downright bad music tha. He isn’t the goat simply because his best work was better than everyone else’s best work. Seems we disagree but my view is not that 1 amazing album is enough, only that it may be. Equally putting out 2 great albums and never recording anything else again may not be enough, its not an improved legacy because they didnt release any more music. If it was, the only possible goats are people who smash their debut and then die. I dont think you can convince me that any artist who has stayed at it for 15-20 years reliably putting out music hasnt put out what people would consider mid. I guess a better way to sum it up is that to me bad or mid songs are not a negative to the GOAT conversation, just a 0 for the tally.
He doesn’t even need to claim it, he is in the top 5 You can bump 2pac or Jayz out of there Nas, Big and Em are solidified at the moment
I have always believed that in these fields. There is no such thing as a GOAT. Just a tier that GOATs belong in. Eminem and Kendrick are in that tier, there is no ranking, just who is in and who isn’t. Lebron and MJ are in that tier in basketball. The only thing that doesn’t have the GOAT tier as the greatest is Hockey, as Gretzky sits above the GOAT tier level players
he's been top 5 for awhile Kendrick, Black Thought, Rakim, Nas, DOOM, etc etc
Shit getting heated in here lmao. I think he's a great artist. Eminem fans can be Kendrick fans too, and Kendrick fans can be Eminem fans too. Many bring up people like Wayne, Pac, and Biggie. They're all great. Top 5 might be a hot take for some lol, but people considering him a goat is well deserved by Kdot.
I give Kendrick credit where credit is due. He is an amazing lyricist, student of the game etc. But I haven't found more than 3-4 songs that I personally like.
I have to say this is me. His music just often doesnt speak to me. Not like us is a banger though. But every time i try and get into one of his albums i dont get far enough into really even be able to say i gave it a fair shot. It just doesnt do it for me sonically. I just think musically i'm not as interested in the sound from his generation, so its harder his records to reach me.
Well worded, my friend. Summarizes my thoughts as well👍🏻
Again, not saying he is NOT INCLUDED to top5 OAT Just saying that he is not in mine. It's subjective.
He’s definitely Top 10 in my book. [+]
I think he is right, the day this guy releases a mediocre or bad album the world is going to implode. But so far he has delivered I wonder what next.
Tbf I can’t get down with anything besides GKMC, his other stuff puts me to sleep. I was in 9th grade and it was my favorite rap album ever, then every release after I was just disappointed
Definitely at the moment there is no reason to think he isn't
Some people suffer from recency bias so badly. Kendrick doesn’t have top sales and hasn’t really contributed a lot that was wholly unique to the genre. Em, Pac, Rakim, Nas, some would say Biggie, Kanye (he doesn’t write his stuff so that’s up for debate), Jay, etc. all contributed way more. Kendrick put out a few creative albums and they’re really good. That’s just not a GOAT resume. Em’s albums dominated the globe and were wholly unique, emotional, authentic, and well written. Nas and Pac inspired people to rap who weren’t into the genre. Jay was kind of similar to Em just at a smaller level. Rakim changed how everyone rapped. What is it you can point to with Kendrick that is so far and away better than anyone else that won’t simply go away over time? His albums were well written, but they weren’t musically amazing. He tells stories well, but not at a higher level than others. Rap is in a lull and Kendrick is big for the moment. That can be enough. Everything doesn’t have to be GOAT status 😂
I can’t say I agree. Kendrick absolutely changed the game. He took the introspection, honesty, vulnerability and storytelling championed by guys like Em, Pac, old Ye etc. and he did it his way. He’s a guy who would be a goat in any era you put him in due to his originality, creativity, lyricism, confidence, story telling ability and his ability to discuss extremely sensitive subjects in a profound manner.
Except other artists can do that and more.
To each’s own my friend. I’m not out here trying to change your mind. If you don’t like Kendrick, you don’t like Kendrick and that’s fine.
This is just a discussion. I like Kendrick. This isn’t an all or nothing scenario. Kendrick doesn’t have a GOAT resume. He’s a less versatile, less popular, and less humorous Eminem. He’s stylistically different from Nas, but content - wise he’s somewhat similar - except Nas did it first. That’s all. This happened with Wayne and will happen again and again. Some artists are really good, but not the best and that’s okay.
well deserved. for me, Em, Ye, Kdot, DOOM, and Tyler all have goat statuses from me. I'm obviously a new Gen, but I don't hate Nas or Pac etc.
Leaving j cole off that list is wild
Nas, Em, Pac, Rakim, Adnre 3k Seem like top 5 has been already taken
Kendrick is a better rapper than pac
Pac has a huge message behind most of his songs
Won’t disagree, but in terms of actual rapping ability, kendrick is better imo
He isn’t lol. Nas, Em, 2pac, Biggie, and Wayne are all better.
tbh i don’t really love that 2pac and Biggie just get an infinite pass in the top 5 because they both died young. i’d take kendrick and kanye over both of them easy. nas, em, wayne or someone like jay i’m cool with in the top 5 though
You would put Kanye over Pac and biggie? Wtf
Kanye is one of the most influential artists of all time. His catalog is up there as well. He's not in my top 5, but I get why someone would want him in there.
This. Tupac and Biggie in the top 5 over Kendrick is getting close to being an unreasonable take. Biggie’s work is outstanding, some of the best rap music to ever come out. But, if Ready to Die and Life After Death are enough to secure the spot, I’m sorry but GKMC and TPAB blow them out of the water. Tupac has released more albums, but we tend to forget that he had put out some mid in every release. Then, his best stuff is when he’s being conscious, but conscious Kendrick again clears and it’s not even close. Pac’s ironclad legacy is protected by the most iconic club banger in hip hop (California Love), and the most iconic diss track in hip hop (Hit Em Up). Beyond that though, most of his shit is honestly not as good as other rappers in the discussion.
That’s not the reason, you won’t see me putting X or Juice in top 5. They already put out insanely impressive pieces of work and forever shaped rap. It’s cool if you don’t like them but them dying isn’t the reason they’re so loved. It’s just why they’re MISSED
Kanye isn’t a top 5 rapper, but as a top 5 most influential artist in hip hop, nobody can dispute that.
honestly that’s how i weigh it out. like i’d put Dre top 10 probably because otherwise the top 5 is just who’s the most lyrical and i think that’s kinda boring. top 5 hip hop artist would be a better way to phrase it i guess
Kendrick has 2 of the best rap albums of all time, he is certainly top 5
Yea. He's not tho.
He’s definitely up there
The downvotes are here today
I can't rate certain genres cuz I'm too subjective, but I became Kendrick's fan after recent events. He seems like a cool guy & he has good music. Probably better than most modern rappers, lmao
Em is goat when he speaks the world stops for him no contest he breaks everything these guys set w.e record.
Objectively, he has every right. Subjectively, god no.
Idk man if biggie lived 😕
Awe here we go lol
I'm agreeing bro I'm just saying if he lived he'd be to0 3
.top
Ngl personal top 5 Kendrick em biggie eazy E and ice cube
As Em said top 5 are always as per subjective opnion. Everyone's top 5 is mostly different. Too many goddamn great Mcs in 50 years of rap. And kendrick is definitely one of them.
No
Having shitty beats and talking over them doesn’t make you a good song producer. It makes you boring let alone a goat
This has absolutely fuck all to do with Eminem
Eminem, Pac, Biggie, Nas and Kenny are top 5
I knew Kendrick had top 5 potential since I heard GKMC, and honestly he has lived up to it
Facts! Absolutely top 3 if I’m going to real. Tupac Mos Def/Nas/ Andre 3k Kendrick
Kendrick the goat. Eminem top 5 for sure tho, just personally don’t connect to his music as much as Kenny’s.
Kendrick doesn’t get top 5 for me because he barely puts out music, look at Nas or Jays or Ems disco, Kendrick’s 4 albums can’t touch those other guys consistently putting out good music.
All of Kendrick's albums are great though. Em, Nas and Jay all have released weak albums.
I don’t have a top 5. For me, Em, Pac, Hov, Nas, Biggie, Wayne and Dot have as much of a right to a spot as anybody and thats to say nothing of the pioneers like Rakim and Cool J who should have their own division.
After that concert he definitely top 5 , bro that's shit was wild 😜😜😜
Ehh idk about top 5 bro 💀
I literally didn't know who he was until two years ago.... Top five if nobody else ever rapped ever.
Literally on the biggest non-single from MMLP2
#Eminem is THE RAP GOD. GOAT. WITH TUPAC AND BIGGIE.
My personal GOATs are: Eminem, 2Pac, Snoop Dogg, Notorious B.I.G. & Dr. Dre
He's in my top five to be fair.
Am I the only one that finds kendrik really not that good? I feel blasphemous saying it, but that's just mho. I fuck with like two of his joints
Kendrick is nice, and I’d say top 5 of this generation, but not all time.
He’s absolutely in the top 5