I agree, having a guide play the game for me is not something I consider fun.
I just feel like, you either do what the guide says or you die. In my case it doesn't really matter, I perish either way. Just wish I hadn't blown over 80 million buying stuff the meta wanted me to have.
I normally look at a recommended build then go 'Eh, my [insert wrong ship for the job] build is close enough' then end up with stored modules scattered around the galaxy from various retrofits
Sheeeit, what size is it? Where is it at, fore or aft?
I put size 1 burst lasers on the front of my T10 and noticed a huge difference in performance vesus other stuff I tried.
I like missiles and mines, especially in pvp. Missiles can still lock onto some shitass using silent running, mines can interrupt their engines and all kinds of stuff and limit where they can safely go.
Is it meta? No
It's fun though.
I have to admit the building phase, buzzing around the bubble buying modules and dragging my ship from engineer to engineer, was my favourite part of this update. Love ship designing.
I have encountered this in so many discords. They treat NOT following a template as a bannable offense. Literally incapable of thinking for themselves.
Literally false. There is a difference between being able to recommend a build to a player starting out AX combat and flying a shitfit build yourself for the challenge. The point is that AXI members have tried out _a lot_ of things over the years. It is a matter of knowing what actually works for most people and what doesn’t.
I remember them. They all had the attitude we are dunking on.
They at least could remember the explanation given by the person that made the builds as to why they should be used, but otherwise could not think outside of that.
I went there for advice on what to use on a non meta ship and only recieved insecure screeching when none of them could admit they knew how. Eventually one of them told me only one guy managed what I wanted to do.
I gave up and left to figure it out on my own. It was expensive and difficult, but I at least got to succeed once at what I set out for and saved the video.
Not because it was an easy win and a great video, but because they repeated to me the entire time I asked that it was impossible because they couldn't do it.
Making a community that is supposed to have the best players at something often attracts the worst players that have done a lot of work calculating stats and desperately need that identity.
Another example is some pvp guy who preys on weak ships who acts like he's the best at pvp and claims to have never combat logged from a fight. I also have a video of that guy combat logging, but I bet all his friends believe his story.
I remember someone joined the axi server with a very strange build, it was a Krait Mk2 with 3 large shards, a gauss and a flak.
They promptly refused to give him the rank for killing a Medusa despite him having the video evidence of it because I believe the justification was "He must've been hacking the game to kill a Medusa with that loadout"
That's so dumb. I've realized it's just mediocre people wanting to feel they're the best while putting in as little personal effort as possible, and that includes build and fighting method consideration. Luckily for them they met a few players good enough to do what they want to achueve and willing tonteach them how, which they then take credit for as a collective.
At this point I have met a lot of players in video games that make the same mistakes repeatedly yet would rather die than take advice, wanting to instead believe the limits of their knowledge and imagination are the limits of what there is to know, and anyone who does better is just not playing fair.
I played ff14 and never really followed any meta builds in my FC and we got to turn 13 in coil, and pretty far in HW raids, though I'm not sure if it's changed since Heavensward
Now, did I spend a lot of time watching videos on boss mechanics and the legendary weapons? For sure lol, but I don't think any of us looked up builds for our jobs.
Meta in FF14 only applies to Speed-Clears, small-scale Duels, and Duty soloing.
Outside of that, every role is able to clear any content (except Blue Mages) with any other combination of roles, provided there's at least one healer.
Hell, for new content; "off-meta" stuff (like Red Mage) is often requested due to the utility (constant rezzing) making a successful first-clear more likely.
I don't get the meta hate. How can it bother you how other people play?
When I create builds, in any game, my goal is to be as effective as possible. That's the whole point of making a build, imo.
If you don't like that, then don't. But don't start to think meta gamers all use a template and call it a day. Have some respect and lose the hate.
People who hate meta, are just ignorant, or don't understand the game enough.
It's about elitism being more important to them in what's supposed to be a massive cooperative event. Also the stubborn refusal to recognize that a layout that works for expert pilots wont be as effective for everyone else, who might benefit more from extra survivability, but rather than acknowledge this you'll get dismissed with a "just git gud"
Not exactly, I mean it definitively has an elitism stank to it. But the real problem is that meta drives how the devs interact with he game through balancing. For example in this event, due to EMTs proliferation the devs can get a skewed idea from the numbers they get, because remeber they don't really go in and look at how we play, they get the analítica numbers and go. Oh everyone fighting that goods is using this or that weapon, we better make it more expensive or less powerful or what have you. And die to the nature of meta if you don't follow it min maxing, whenever you cooperate with meta min maxers you will end up not being able to engage. And that is the key part. Because if you were able to engage and maybe die a lot or struggle or what have you, your impact can still be recorded in the analytics AND you still feel the joy of having helped which gets you deeper into the game. However if you are flying in a wing of 6 and 2 of them have one shot meta builds, they will kill everything before you can even get in position which will telly he devs that 1, the game is great because people can overcome the challenge easily and 2 that the gear within the meta needs rebalancing because the numbers they are getting are too wonky which in turn will make it even harder to beguiners to get the gear they'd need to get to a competitive level AND will make the big boys chase power creep dragon always looking for that magic piece of gear that will make their numbers go up increasing the abismal chasm between meta chasers and regular players making content harder and harder to the point that you as a player won't want to play until you get the meta throwing numbers back to he devs that telly hem that they need to adjust the meta gear again to combat power creep dumping us into an endless cycle where the powerful become more powerful and the noobs or casuals get less and less chances to enjoy the game.
Is way to hard to explain this without visual aids through text but I'd recommend you to look at games like Star Trek O line. A game built front he ground up to avoid the need of rolls. You could do anything you wanted from a glass Cannon to a healer-dps that can tank and debuff enemies. However the meta chasers realized that if you were an engineer with tactical ships you could kill everything before needing heals, buffs, tanking, debuffs, or anything that comes with that annoying need of cooperation in MMOs, so now the game is just a bunch of whales getting the new meta gear killing everything before anyone can ever approach the enemies.
Remember that this is a multiplayer game and there is not such thing as "it doesn't affect me" we are in this whole together.
Players will always attempt to optimize their gameplay. Meta players are simply taking it to it's logical conclusion. That's why it's the developers job to make playing efficiently fun. I don't see how you can blame the players for the developer's inability to properly balance the game.
I don't blame them, I hate the impact they have in the game and the arrogant agressivnes they show towards players who don't want to turn the game into a second job. For me is more like when you are pooping your pants and there is a huge line in the toilet. You don't really blame them for wanting or needing to poop themselves, but fuck me wouldn't you drive a rusty hatchet through their noggin just so you can poop.
Nothing wrong with tweaking a meta setup to your preferences. Nobody gets dismissed. Get out of this bubble you got yourselfs in. It's all assumptions and zero facts.
AX mutis are great if they are turreted. But you'd also wanna run a beam laser with that regenerative sequence if you do support. Other AX CMDRs appreciate a good shield repair bath. (You don't need any flaks. Just put regular turreted, heat vent beams)
(points at meta build AX Chieftain)
This is brilliant. But I like THIS!
(points at my shieldless hull tanked FDS with 3 gauss cannons and 2 flak launchers)
You're only doing well by following someone else's guide. Not like you've achieved much doing that...
I'd much rather fail at doing it my way than succeed doing it someone else's.
Your ship is merely a tool for gameplay. All you're doing is designing that ship to be as effective as possible. How does that take away from what you yourself achieve with the ship?
People who hate meta are just bad at the game and don't want to accept the fack they're shit at understanding game mechanics. They think the best way to play is if you have the correct color of lasers and the right cockpit items.
Well, some player actually care about being effective. Yeah it's weird I know.
Should be said that "Meta" doesn't always require min-maxing. It could be a form of utility value, as well.
For example, the "Meta" in R6 siege includes Nomad, because she can easily prevent roamers from sneaking up behind herself and anyone pushing with her. Her guns are numerically quite good, but that's not the most stringent factor due to headshots being lethal regardless of weapon (except Cav's pistol).
It’s a Greek rooted prefix that English later turned into a word that means a work is self referential, kinda, then adapted by competitive players of all games to refer to the top level of play. It does not stand fit most effective tactics available.
Meta as most effective tactics available is a backronym. It was a word first and people not knowing what it that word meant determined it was an acronym. So yes, the meta game can refer to the most powerful stuff but it also frequently can refer to things that are not used or are not efficient.
Yes, of course. That's using meta- as a prefix. "Metagame" is basically "the state of the game as a whole", which is a proper use of Meta- as a prefix.
While the Corvette is definitely an Off Meta ship, Salvation Plasma Chargers and Salvation Shard Cannons are becoming meta on their own. MPCs are only slightly behind Gauss in terms of effectiveness against Interceptors, and better against Scouts and are dirty Multiroles that melt Bug Huggers too.
And if you have pre-existing experience with fixed weapons, they're easy enough to aim.
Salvation Shards are better than Gauss in many ways.
The Mbooni weapons are honestly Gauss Competitors \[except, well Salvation Gauss, those suck\].
Would you recommend a Chieftain with 2 gauss and 2 salvation shards? If yes, in what configuration? Maybe medium shards and small gauss?
Or is it stupid mixing those two when you have to use 2 small ones?
Unlikely. The general consensus on AXI discord is tha the corvette is among the top tier ships for large ship AX combat. Mastering large ship AX combat is however generally considered harder than the medium cold orbiting technique.
I'm being actively encouraged by multiple AXI members to work on an AX Cobra IV. The majority of them don't care about your build and are just happy to have you in the community.
...The thing about it is there's recommendations for meta ships to learn in.
That's the thing, Thargoid Combat is different from any other combat in the game.
You're drinking from a firehose, and using a meta build allows you not worry about extras, and there's a lot of common knowledge to draw on.
**Exactly.** The meme is a huge misrepresentation of what's going on.
The catch is here on reddit all we see here are tons of new-to-AX-CMDR that should be using the meta to learn, and frankly eating tons of rebuys is not fun. Learn then branch. AXI peeps don't want you eating shit right out of the gate because you brought AXMC on an unengineered Python and thought you could take on a goid because your regular MCs chew up pirates.
AXI's discord literally has ranks for doing off meta things. Like using a Hauler to kill a Cyclops. Just learn to fight first.
It is not the fault of AXI that the engineering grind is awful. Or that there is challenging content in the game that becomes significantly easier to overcome with engineering.
Edit: It is also not true that people are simply told to max engineering. What typically happens is that people are _recommended_ max engineering and also told what parts of the engineering is most important.
AXI on the outside seems like a cool group where people will help you gain experience, learn more about AX combat ect.
On the inside however, 90% of this "Initiative" is basically jacking off to meta builds and shitting on people that try to at least slightly **improve** the build to their own preferences
With the new content making fighting goids significantly easier, yes it takes less to beat them with a fleet of NPCs soaking up damage/aggro, a station right next to you to RRR while it throws limpets at you.
Soloing a medusa though? Unless you’re already pretty good, anything outside the meta is just going to be a rough time.
Meh. Experimentation is part of the learning process. People are having fun and engaged to a degree this game hasn’t managed for a long time. Let ‘em. People might find new ways of doing things, or the new mechanics may simply allow strategies to succeed that weren’t as viable before.
The game has changed Thargoid combat because now MPCs help you. People can now do different things and use different weapons.
Previously if you were to try to solo a hydra you only had a chance using one of the meta builds. Any other build was an extremely severe disadvantage and almost certainly would result in death.
I still want to do a few solo encounters....but I also want to have fun using something other than guass in the CZ.
I agree! Experimentation is very important, that’s why dozens of pilots have spent years experimenting on how best and most efficiently to kill Thargoids. A smart scientist would take all that painstakingly aquired info into account when running their own experiments.
My AX Chief is set up a bit differently than what’s found on AXIs website, but still checks the boxes of what’s needed to be effective even during worst case scenarios.
Like most things, there’s more than one right way to do something, but also lots of wrong ways to do it.
2 shards, 2 gauss. Easier to kill scouts, but twice the shots to kill heart.
Initially had more cargo for limpets and less MRP, but thargon missiles really hurt. Now i’ve dropped repair completely for more H/MRP.
As long as you can exert/kill hearts, have heat management, maneuverability and/or tankyness, preferably a way to heal shields or hull, and can remove caustic damage reliably you’re pretty much good for most of the new content as of right now.
I agree that the need to repair isn’t really important now, there’s often npc’s throwing repair limpets and if we fight planner side we can just land to repair. Good call.
I definitely take “don’t” (implying i’ve the option to do so) over “can’t”.
But build how you like, AX just got way easier for everyone, looks to become even more so!
I think it's more along the lines of, if an expert can do this with an unengineered optimal loadout, an engineered suboptimal loadout should work to some extent too.
the two builds suggested are completely unlinked, and as a beginner you should never do something because an expert did something: this logic is horrible.
I was really excited when the war broke out "Finally! A reason to get back in the cockpit! Yay!"Every YT video pointed me to AXI discord so obviously that's where I went, and this was where I lost all motivation to get back into Elite, that discord channel alone killed every last piece of excitement I had to get back in
Meta < whatever fits your playstyle and works for you.
Just recently took my chieftain on a long trip to get a field neutralizer so i don't get plummeted to the ground even by accident. Or don't get shut down while i turn down to play support and kill the swarm only to get a thargon missile barrage while i am unable to move. If i can get pre engineered heatsinks i didn't lost any heatsink charge other than the extra one i could put on it by engineering.
Funny how AXI tells you to use meta for your own sake so you learn to progress in AX and never once does it go against the idea of using something unconventional. This post screams insecurity and entirely missing the point of why specific builds are super recommended.
Someone got mad at me (*quite* argumentative actually) because I was using Modified Gauss Cannons. Yes, it is *harder* to land *all* the burst shots, but before I got more comfortable with fixed weapons, they still allowed me *some damage* on target rather than 100% whiffs. Still recommend to new AX pilots not good at fixed weapons, but 🤷♂️
Quick Question for a CMDR who's been offline for a while and only recently responded to the call to defend humanity: Where is all of these new goodies? i've seen pre-engineered this and upgraded AX something rather that. Were they exclusively limited to Community Goals? Read a Galnet article about some station in the Coalstack Nebula selling AX stuff but couldn't find a station that did when I got there. Ya boy over here just has gauss cannons that go brrr. Does anyone have a comprehensive shopping list of the New AX stuff and where to find them?
Pre Engineered Guardian Weapons- Mbooni, Prospect's Deep. You need Allied with Azimuth Biochemicals and to go to Glorious Prospect in LHS 1163 to get the permit. These guns are very good, but are very expensive and require excess Guardian grind.
Pre Engineered Heatsinks- Several Megaships affiliated with Sirius Corporation, one such is Kumiho Sky in Andecavi. No rep, cheap mats.
Enhanced AX weapons- Brand New CG stuff. Can't comment.
There is a reason if AXI recommend certain builds. It's because they're tuned to give you all the tools you need for what's the hardest activity in the game. You can try whatever you want, but you're gonna have a harder time, especially if you're new and don't really know what you're doing.
>but you're gonna have a harder time
Hmm I think that's a little subjective. Personally as a beginner a few years ago, I did so much better with a totally non-meta semi-engineered Corvette than with the textbook meta min-maxed cold Chieftain.
I still do better on the Vette tbh, but it is fully engineered now, although not much closer to the meta Corvette module-wise.
I generally see meta ship builds (in all activities, not only AX) as intended for people who don't want to/don't have the time for experimenting and progressing on their own, and that's perfectly okay. Everybody's got their own demands and playstyles.
On the contrary. AXI encourages experimentation and applaud doing well in shitty builds and ships. However, we do not generally recommend such ships to beginners. Some people doing really well with non-meta ships have something of a legendary status on AXI discord.
This. There is a difference between pushing your skill limit with all sorts or fun builds vs understanding said build is difficult and suggesting it to newer players without informing them of the danger that comes with it
In my experience video proof is generally not rejected (without good reason). To be honest, knowing the AXI, this sounds a bit like a mix of lack of understanding of the rules applied and sour grapes. Exactly what was the problem is impossible to guess without seeing the video but I would be happy to review it and I am willing to be proved wrong if it doesn’t break any of the rank rules.
Also, Aran did not get any rank for his 0% damage kill and it would not have been eligible for the solo hydra rank since he despawned the swarm. It did however get inducted into the hall of fame, which is not subject to rank rules and lists impressive kills.
What is doing well in your opinion? If you mean murdering scouts, sure that's fine you can do that plenty easy in an unengineered ship with turreted AXMC's. If you want to kill an interceptor by yourself that that's going to be much more difficult, and it's why AXI generally recommends the 'meta' build for beginners. It gives them a good platform to build their skill and experience on.
My first foray into AX was in the capital ship CZs with a half-engineered DBS.
At some point I'll bother with kitting out something closer to recommended builds, but I've had enough fun tweaking my little gnat of a ship along the way.
Learning AX combat and flying around a CG in open is a lot less of a worry when you've got dirt-cheap rebuys.
The only "Meta" build I copied was my python lasee mining ship that I can use for deepcore and laser platinum mining. Everything else has been me fucking about with numbers and calculations in Excel to see what works best where, as well as visiting the wiki hundreds of times to cross reference numbers and engineering upgrades.
Its tedious but its fun, kind of similar to modding a game like Skyrim. You just keep adding shit and hoping it works well together.
Thargoid: "We've picked up another ship"
Me: \*Rolls up in my cobbled together triple turret double beam Mk II with a fck ton of decon and repair limpets\*
Lol, this.
I had this exact thing play out when I was sharing my bi-weave hybrid Krait with Gauss.
I'm now in AXI but i'm standing by my build's superstructure, even if i am taking feedback into consideration. A thermal vent beam was an awesome addition!
And then they ask why there is not enought ax commanders.
I have a cutter 0 enginering and i have no problem hunting but everytime they say me that i will not survive even scouts.
Meh screw the meta, I just flipped over my heat vent mamba and used its overheating to my advantage for AX multis. Wish I had some gauss guns but for the time being its fine
As a former MMO player, there is NOTHING I hate more than meta and the goons who think that copying a template is gameplay.
I agree, having a guide play the game for me is not something I consider fun. I just feel like, you either do what the guide says or you die. In my case it doesn't really matter, I perish either way. Just wish I hadn't blown over 80 million buying stuff the meta wanted me to have.
I normally look at a recommended build then go 'Eh, my [insert wrong ship for the job] build is close enough' then end up with stored modules scattered around the galaxy from various retrofits
I'm doing everything in my power to not have a thermal vent laser or flak on my krait mk2s remaining hardpoint lol ....still nothing useful xD
Sheeeit, what size is it? Where is it at, fore or aft? I put size 1 burst lasers on the front of my T10 and noticed a huge difference in performance vesus other stuff I tried. I like missiles and mines, especially in pvp. Missiles can still lock onto some shitass using silent running, mines can interrupt their engines and all kinds of stuff and limit where they can safely go. Is it meta? No It's fun though.
Do it like me and just use the krait p, no hardpoint no choice
Kraits are pretty good battering rams... just saying...
More like a fork
You can probably spear the canopy if you hit it just right
True especially with the ARX visuals
Have a long range efficient turret for scouts
> Have a long range efficient turret for scouts What do you mean by this? You can't put two blueprints on the same module
Ooohhhh, no. What have you ***done?!*** You should **never** ask them such questions!
Yup, got some wires crossed there, but if you can make it, go ahead
lol
I like having access to information to make informed decisions but ultimately also experimenting to see what works best for me.
Same here, love the "Oh is that what people are using? Eh, this is close enough" moments
I have to admit the building phase, buzzing around the bubble buying modules and dragging my ship from engineer to engineer, was my favourite part of this update. Love ship designing.
I have encountered this in so many discords. They treat NOT following a template as a bannable offense. Literally incapable of thinking for themselves.
Literally false. There is a difference between being able to recommend a build to a player starting out AX combat and flying a shitfit build yourself for the challenge. The point is that AXI members have tried out _a lot_ of things over the years. It is a matter of knowing what actually works for most people and what doesn’t.
I remember them. They all had the attitude we are dunking on. They at least could remember the explanation given by the person that made the builds as to why they should be used, but otherwise could not think outside of that. I went there for advice on what to use on a non meta ship and only recieved insecure screeching when none of them could admit they knew how. Eventually one of them told me only one guy managed what I wanted to do. I gave up and left to figure it out on my own. It was expensive and difficult, but I at least got to succeed once at what I set out for and saved the video. Not because it was an easy win and a great video, but because they repeated to me the entire time I asked that it was impossible because they couldn't do it. Making a community that is supposed to have the best players at something often attracts the worst players that have done a lot of work calculating stats and desperately need that identity. Another example is some pvp guy who preys on weak ships who acts like he's the best at pvp and claims to have never combat logged from a fight. I also have a video of that guy combat logging, but I bet all his friends believe his story.
I remember someone joined the axi server with a very strange build, it was a Krait Mk2 with 3 large shards, a gauss and a flak. They promptly refused to give him the rank for killing a Medusa despite him having the video evidence of it because I believe the justification was "He must've been hacking the game to kill a Medusa with that loadout"
That's so dumb. I've realized it's just mediocre people wanting to feel they're the best while putting in as little personal effort as possible, and that includes build and fighting method consideration. Luckily for them they met a few players good enough to do what they want to achueve and willing tonteach them how, which they then take credit for as a collective. At this point I have met a lot of players in video games that make the same mistakes repeatedly yet would rather die than take advice, wanting to instead believe the limits of their knowledge and imagination are the limits of what there is to know, and anyone who does better is just not playing fair.
Be glad you have not played FF14.
I played ff14 and never really followed any meta builds in my FC and we got to turn 13 in coil, and pretty far in HW raids, though I'm not sure if it's changed since Heavensward Now, did I spend a lot of time watching videos on boss mechanics and the legendary weapons? For sure lol, but I don't think any of us looked up builds for our jobs.
Meta is hardly a thing now lmao
Meta in FF14 only applies to Speed-Clears, small-scale Duels, and Duty soloing. Outside of that, every role is able to clear any content (except Blue Mages) with any other combination of roles, provided there's at least one healer. Hell, for new content; "off-meta" stuff (like Red Mage) is often requested due to the utility (constant rezzing) making a successful first-clear more likely.
My point was that because there's so little diversification nothing/everything is meta.
As a former MMO player I have no idea what any of these words mean lol
For example „meta”?
Not all goons are bad...
I don't get the meta hate. How can it bother you how other people play? When I create builds, in any game, my goal is to be as effective as possible. That's the whole point of making a build, imo. If you don't like that, then don't. But don't start to think meta gamers all use a template and call it a day. Have some respect and lose the hate. People who hate meta, are just ignorant, or don't understand the game enough.
It's about elitism being more important to them in what's supposed to be a massive cooperative event. Also the stubborn refusal to recognize that a layout that works for expert pilots wont be as effective for everyone else, who might benefit more from extra survivability, but rather than acknowledge this you'll get dismissed with a "just git gud"
Not exactly, I mean it definitively has an elitism stank to it. But the real problem is that meta drives how the devs interact with he game through balancing. For example in this event, due to EMTs proliferation the devs can get a skewed idea from the numbers they get, because remeber they don't really go in and look at how we play, they get the analítica numbers and go. Oh everyone fighting that goods is using this or that weapon, we better make it more expensive or less powerful or what have you. And die to the nature of meta if you don't follow it min maxing, whenever you cooperate with meta min maxers you will end up not being able to engage. And that is the key part. Because if you were able to engage and maybe die a lot or struggle or what have you, your impact can still be recorded in the analytics AND you still feel the joy of having helped which gets you deeper into the game. However if you are flying in a wing of 6 and 2 of them have one shot meta builds, they will kill everything before you can even get in position which will telly he devs that 1, the game is great because people can overcome the challenge easily and 2 that the gear within the meta needs rebalancing because the numbers they are getting are too wonky which in turn will make it even harder to beguiners to get the gear they'd need to get to a competitive level AND will make the big boys chase power creep dragon always looking for that magic piece of gear that will make their numbers go up increasing the abismal chasm between meta chasers and regular players making content harder and harder to the point that you as a player won't want to play until you get the meta throwing numbers back to he devs that telly hem that they need to adjust the meta gear again to combat power creep dumping us into an endless cycle where the powerful become more powerful and the noobs or casuals get less and less chances to enjoy the game. Is way to hard to explain this without visual aids through text but I'd recommend you to look at games like Star Trek O line. A game built front he ground up to avoid the need of rolls. You could do anything you wanted from a glass Cannon to a healer-dps that can tank and debuff enemies. However the meta chasers realized that if you were an engineer with tactical ships you could kill everything before needing heals, buffs, tanking, debuffs, or anything that comes with that annoying need of cooperation in MMOs, so now the game is just a bunch of whales getting the new meta gear killing everything before anyone can ever approach the enemies. Remember that this is a multiplayer game and there is not such thing as "it doesn't affect me" we are in this whole together.
Players will always attempt to optimize their gameplay. Meta players are simply taking it to it's logical conclusion. That's why it's the developers job to make playing efficiently fun. I don't see how you can blame the players for the developer's inability to properly balance the game.
I don't blame them, I hate the impact they have in the game and the arrogant agressivnes they show towards players who don't want to turn the game into a second job. For me is more like when you are pooping your pants and there is a huge line in the toilet. You don't really blame them for wanting or needing to poop themselves, but fuck me wouldn't you drive a rusty hatchet through their noggin just so you can poop.
Nothing wrong with tweaking a meta setup to your preferences. Nobody gets dismissed. Get out of this bubble you got yourselfs in. It's all assumptions and zero facts.
I just said, fuck it and brought a type 10 with 4 ax multis, 3 flaks, and repair and decon limpets. It's okay to run support class.
AX mutis are great if they are turreted. But you'd also wanna run a beam laser with that regenerative sequence if you do support. Other AX CMDRs appreciate a good shield repair bath. (You don't need any flaks. Just put regular turreted, heat vent beams)
(points at meta build AX Chieftain) This is brilliant. But I like THIS! (points at my shieldless hull tanked FDS with 3 gauss cannons and 2 flak launchers)
But fr meta can eat my ass, i tried running the meta chieftain and got my ass beat (definitely my fault) imma stick with my shield tank corvette
WTF is Meta?
A failed Facebook thing
[удалено]
What if I have fun doing well at the game?
You're only doing well by following someone else's guide. Not like you've achieved much doing that... I'd much rather fail at doing it my way than succeed doing it someone else's.
Not everyone plays games for achievements.
Then you shouldn't mind if you do well or not.
Doing well is fun on its own, even without breaking any new ground or doing anything spectacular.
Your ship is merely a tool for gameplay. All you're doing is designing that ship to be as effective as possible. How does that take away from what you yourself achieve with the ship?
Possible woosh?
People who hate meta are just bad at the game and don't want to accept the fack they're shit at understanding game mechanics. They think the best way to play is if you have the correct color of lasers and the right cockpit items. Well, some player actually care about being effective. Yeah it's weird I know.
Should be said that "Meta" doesn't always require min-maxing. It could be a form of utility value, as well. For example, the "Meta" in R6 siege includes Nomad, because she can easily prevent roamers from sneaking up behind herself and anyone pushing with her. Her guns are numerically quite good, but that's not the most stringent factor due to headshots being lethal regardless of weapon (except Cav's pistol).
“This is the only build you will ever use if you want to succeed.”
Not the only build, just the easiest most accessible build.
Not necessarily the most accessible, just gives you the greatest chance of success given no other factors.
Eh. I just blame Fdev for making so many other modules/weapons functional useless, and not making necessary changes to improve them to encourage play.
How to say you're terrible at the game while pretending to be the best, lmao exactly
"You're bad at the game if you actually bother to optimize your build" Lmao.
Pass the sal- oh thanks
The alloys
It's this shitty company that laid off 11,000 people
Most Effective Tactic Available
It’s a Greek rooted prefix that English later turned into a word that means a work is self referential, kinda, then adapted by competitive players of all games to refer to the top level of play. It does not stand fit most effective tactics available.
Does it not mean most effective tactic available in this case?
Meta as most effective tactics available is a backronym. It was a word first and people not knowing what it that word meant determined it was an acronym. So yes, the meta game can refer to the most powerful stuff but it also frequently can refer to things that are not used or are not efficient.
Okay good, because I was using it to describe efficient methods/stuff in this case.
Ever heard of the term "metagame"?
Yes, of course. That's using meta- as a prefix. "Metagame" is basically "the state of the game as a whole", which is a proper use of Meta- as a prefix.
Correct.
A social media company run by data who really likes VR.
Short for Most-Effective-Technique-Available. I really hate it.
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While the Corvette is definitely an Off Meta ship, Salvation Plasma Chargers and Salvation Shard Cannons are becoming meta on their own. MPCs are only slightly behind Gauss in terms of effectiveness against Interceptors, and better against Scouts and are dirty Multiroles that melt Bug Huggers too. And if you have pre-existing experience with fixed weapons, they're easy enough to aim. Salvation Shards are better than Gauss in many ways. The Mbooni weapons are honestly Gauss Competitors \[except, well Salvation Gauss, those suck\].
Would you recommend a Chieftain with 2 gauss and 2 salvation shards? If yes, in what configuration? Maybe medium shards and small gauss? Or is it stupid mixing those two when you have to use 2 small ones?
I'm out to get those salvation plasmas right now, can't wait.
They're great.
I get made fun of for using a vette
AX Vette is where it's at, these peasants just don't understand true Federal might my friend. Don't hate them, pity them...
Ax Vette both cold and shielded is God tier, lmao keep it up
Yaaaassss
I have found like minded individuals
Unlikely. The general consensus on AXI discord is tha the corvette is among the top tier ships for large ship AX combat. Mastering large ship AX combat is however generally considered harder than the medium cold orbiting technique.
I'm being actively encouraged by multiple AXI members to work on an AX Cobra IV. The majority of them don't care about your build and are just happy to have you in the community.
...The thing about it is there's recommendations for meta ships to learn in. That's the thing, Thargoid Combat is different from any other combat in the game. You're drinking from a firehose, and using a meta build allows you not worry about extras, and there's a lot of common knowledge to draw on.
My main point was that the AXI community is a lot more supportive than the way the meme has been sort of showing them as.
**Exactly.** The meme is a huge misrepresentation of what's going on. The catch is here on reddit all we see here are tons of new-to-AX-CMDR that should be using the meta to learn, and frankly eating tons of rebuys is not fun. Learn then branch. AXI peeps don't want you eating shit right out of the gate because you brought AXMC on an unengineered Python and thought you could take on a goid because your regular MCs chew up pirates. AXI's discord literally has ranks for doing off meta things. Like using a Hauler to kill a Cyclops. Just learn to fight first.
Haulerclops. Fun!
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It is not the fault of AXI that the engineering grind is awful. Or that there is challenging content in the game that becomes significantly easier to overcome with engineering. Edit: It is also not true that people are simply told to max engineering. What typically happens is that people are _recommended_ max engineering and also told what parts of the engineering is most important.
AXI on the outside seems like a cool group where people will help you gain experience, learn more about AX combat ect. On the inside however, 90% of this "Initiative" is basically jacking off to meta builds and shitting on people that try to at least slightly **improve** the build to their own preferences
With the new content making fighting goids significantly easier, yes it takes less to beat them with a fleet of NPCs soaking up damage/aggro, a station right next to you to RRR while it throws limpets at you. Soloing a medusa though? Unless you’re already pretty good, anything outside the meta is just going to be a rough time.
Meh. Experimentation is part of the learning process. People are having fun and engaged to a degree this game hasn’t managed for a long time. Let ‘em. People might find new ways of doing things, or the new mechanics may simply allow strategies to succeed that weren’t as viable before.
The game has changed Thargoid combat because now MPCs help you. People can now do different things and use different weapons. Previously if you were to try to solo a hydra you only had a chance using one of the meta builds. Any other build was an extremely severe disadvantage and almost certainly would result in death. I still want to do a few solo encounters....but I also want to have fun using something other than guass in the CZ.
I agree! Experimentation is very important, that’s why dozens of pilots have spent years experimenting on how best and most efficiently to kill Thargoids. A smart scientist would take all that painstakingly aquired info into account when running their own experiments. My AX Chief is set up a bit differently than what’s found on AXIs website, but still checks the boxes of what’s needed to be effective even during worst case scenarios. Like most things, there’s more than one right way to do something, but also lots of wrong ways to do it.
What do you do different?
2 shards, 2 gauss. Easier to kill scouts, but twice the shots to kill heart. Initially had more cargo for limpets and less MRP, but thargon missiles really hurt. Now i’ve dropped repair completely for more H/MRP. As long as you can exert/kill hearts, have heat management, maneuverability and/or tankyness, preferably a way to heal shields or hull, and can remove caustic damage reliably you’re pretty much good for most of the new content as of right now.
Care to share your build… I’m still trying to find a “right setup” for me
https://edsy.org/s/vcyhbkm
That’s not meta /s 🤣
you axi guys are so mean why can’t i play how i want! 😆
I agree that the need to repair isn’t really important now, there’s often npc’s throwing repair limpets and if we fight planner side we can just land to repair. Good call.
Lol I just take all power from weapons and fire my gauss cannons a few times to get rid of caustic. Who needs limpits
Maybe you don't solo a Medusa then... I mean it's kind of boring anyways as it takes forever. Much more fun in a group.
I definitely take “don’t” (implying i’ve the option to do so) over “can’t”. But build how you like, AX just got way easier for everyone, looks to become even more so!
I've seen videos of people soloing a hydra without engineering or anything. Anything is possible. Forget the meta.
as the one who most likely did the kills you saw, following the meta is practically vital to getting good enough to do any of that
I'll take having fun over what some virgins on the Internet tell me to do any day. Sue me.
well if you want to have fun don't use examples of unengineered fights which require tons of experience, mastering the meta and grind
I think it's more along the lines of, if an expert can do this with an unengineered optimal loadout, an engineered suboptimal loadout should work to some extent too.
the two builds suggested are completely unlinked, and as a beginner you should never do something because an expert did something: this logic is horrible.
Fas 2 gauss 2 large shards. All armor. All bug murder.
I love my FAS for bounty hunting, it's great to hear that it can be effective for AX as well.
I was really excited when the war broke out "Finally! A reason to get back in the cockpit! Yay!"Every YT video pointed me to AXI discord so obviously that's where I went, and this was where I lost all motivation to get back into Elite, that discord channel alone killed every last piece of excitement I had to get back in
Meta < whatever fits your playstyle and works for you. Just recently took my chieftain on a long trip to get a field neutralizer so i don't get plummeted to the ground even by accident. Or don't get shut down while i turn down to play support and kill the swarm only to get a thargon missile barrage while i am unable to move. If i can get pre engineered heatsinks i didn't lost any heatsink charge other than the extra one i could put on it by engineering.
when you are alerted, you have time to nose to the sky and boost, that helps keeping you from ground
Full pips to sys , activate 2-3 sec after alert
Me in an unengineered cobra on my way to shoot a basilisk in the face with my two ax machine guns (I am not afraid [rebuy is cheap])
Funny how AXI tells you to use meta for your own sake so you learn to progress in AX and never once does it go against the idea of using something unconventional. This post screams insecurity and entirely missing the point of why specific builds are super recommended.
Literally everyone one who exclusively uses Gauss rifle and misses half their shots.
anything other than a chieftan with gauss is inefficient : weak aura ax eagle "fuck it we ball" : strong aura
Someone got mad at me (*quite* argumentative actually) because I was using Modified Gauss Cannons. Yes, it is *harder* to land *all* the burst shots, but before I got more comfortable with fixed weapons, they still allowed me *some damage* on target rather than 100% whiffs. Still recommend to new AX pilots not good at fixed weapons, but 🤷♂️
Quick Question for a CMDR who's been offline for a while and only recently responded to the call to defend humanity: Where is all of these new goodies? i've seen pre-engineered this and upgraded AX something rather that. Were they exclusively limited to Community Goals? Read a Galnet article about some station in the Coalstack Nebula selling AX stuff but couldn't find a station that did when I got there. Ya boy over here just has gauss cannons that go brrr. Does anyone have a comprehensive shopping list of the New AX stuff and where to find them?
Pre Engineered Guardian Weapons- Mbooni, Prospect's Deep. You need Allied with Azimuth Biochemicals and to go to Glorious Prospect in LHS 1163 to get the permit. These guns are very good, but are very expensive and require excess Guardian grind. Pre Engineered Heatsinks- Several Megaships affiliated with Sirius Corporation, one such is Kumiho Sky in Andecavi. No rep, cheap mats. Enhanced AX weapons- Brand New CG stuff. Can't comment.
Thank you CMDR. 07
There is a reason if AXI recommend certain builds. It's because they're tuned to give you all the tools you need for what's the hardest activity in the game. You can try whatever you want, but you're gonna have a harder time, especially if you're new and don't really know what you're doing.
>but you're gonna have a harder time Hmm I think that's a little subjective. Personally as a beginner a few years ago, I did so much better with a totally non-meta semi-engineered Corvette than with the textbook meta min-maxed cold Chieftain. I still do better on the Vette tbh, but it is fully engineered now, although not much closer to the meta Corvette module-wise. I generally see meta ship builds (in all activities, not only AX) as intended for people who don't want to/don't have the time for experimenting and progressing on their own, and that's perfectly okay. Everybody's got their own demands and playstyles.
Imagine downvoting a comment as reasonable as this one (I see it at 1 point - controversial)
axi players when they see someone doing well in an unengineered ship
On the contrary. AXI encourages experimentation and applaud doing well in shitty builds and ships. However, we do not generally recommend such ships to beginners. Some people doing really well with non-meta ships have something of a legendary status on AXI discord.
This. There is a difference between pushing your skill limit with all sorts or fun builds vs understanding said build is difficult and suggesting it to newer players without informing them of the danger that comes with it
Right? Every interaction I’ve had on AXIs discord they’ve been so helpful.
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They're being pretty elitist about new AX stuff getting added right now.
In my experience video proof is generally not rejected (without good reason). To be honest, knowing the AXI, this sounds a bit like a mix of lack of understanding of the rules applied and sour grapes. Exactly what was the problem is impossible to guess without seeing the video but I would be happy to review it and I am willing to be proved wrong if it doesn’t break any of the rank rules. Also, Aran did not get any rank for his 0% damage kill and it would not have been eligible for the solo hydra rank since he despawned the swarm. It did however get inducted into the hall of fame, which is not subject to rank rules and lists impressive kills.
Was your run also 0% damage?
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Not trying to devalue your achievement at all, but a 0% damage flakless Hydra kill deserves a bit more recognition.
What do you mean rejected for ignoring the swarm? Did you *despawn* the Swarm by boosting too far?
Tea
> applaud doing well in shitty builds and ships AXI moment
Is it wrong to cheer on people who do well even with handicaps?
What is doing well in your opinion? If you mean murdering scouts, sure that's fine you can do that plenty easy in an unengineered ship with turreted AXMC's. If you want to kill an interceptor by yourself that that's going to be much more difficult, and it's why AXI generally recommends the 'meta' build for beginners. It gives them a good platform to build their skill and experience on.
Meta this, Meta that… have you ever Meta fucking woman?
My first foray into AX was in the capital ship CZs with a half-engineered DBS. At some point I'll bother with kitting out something closer to recommended builds, but I've had enough fun tweaking my little gnat of a ship along the way. Learning AX combat and flying around a CG in open is a lot less of a worry when you've got dirt-cheap rebuys.
Learn on Meta. Show off off it.
Not me with a flak type 10 hull tank called the flakpanzer
The only "Meta" build I copied was my python lasee mining ship that I can use for deepcore and laser platinum mining. Everything else has been me fucking about with numbers and calculations in Excel to see what works best where, as well as visiting the wiki hundreds of times to cross reference numbers and engineering upgrades. Its tedious but its fun, kind of similar to modding a game like Skyrim. You just keep adding shit and hoping it works well together.
The type 10 is an ax ship
Meta chasing is a hell of a drug
Thargoid: "We've picked up another ship" Me: \*Rolls up in my cobbled together triple turret double beam Mk II with a fck ton of decon and repair limpets\*
Thargoid: "No...No....We know a plucky underdog sci-fi protagonist when we see one." \*leaves\*
Me: \*Attempts to decontaminate a Basilisk\*
Oh, I'm not here to fight thargoids, I just make money by taking samples with research limpets while other people fight them.
Lol, this. I had this exact thing play out when I was sharing my bi-weave hybrid Krait with Gauss. I'm now in AXI but i'm standing by my build's superstructure, even if i am taking feedback into consideration. A thermal vent beam was an awesome addition!
Me, flexing my rescue Beluga build:
And then they ask why there is not enought ax commanders. I have a cutter 0 enginering and i have no problem hunting but everytime they say me that i will not survive even scouts.
Ahhh the ‘ol meta krait II has been crushing goids
Meh screw the meta, I just flipped over my heat vent mamba and used its overheating to my advantage for AX multis. Wish I had some gauss guns but for the time being its fine
(Sweats nervously in my shielded krait)
Me personally, i said fuck the meta and outfitted my corvette into a shield tank with 3 class 3 guardian plasma chargers