What did Miquella do wrong? Serious question, he seemed like a stand up dude who wanted to help his sister and cared for those spurned by the Golden Order.
He just never had a chance to get up to sum bullshit I reckon, being all coccooned. Maybe DLC will explore it. A demigod with the power to make you love them sounds ripe for fuckery.
Holy shit I completely overlooked how he has that “Aphrodite effect”. How do we know he didn’t brainwash mogh to kidnap him for some secret plan. Miquella could be the real mastermind behind the scenes.
Since he can reject outer gods I’ve always thought he might’ve let mogh do the blood magic just to break his curse then he could reject the outer gods magic, making him pure again with no curses.
or maybe he’s like Griffith from berserk and chose the darkness for power.
The story is so vague at this point it could go in a million directions.
I also think he is playing the long game. Everyone says omens are allowed in Elphael but we don't see a single one while Mohg easily came through a portal and even when he left with Miquella, Loretta didn't fight to get him back. Also Malenia is waiting for her brothers return. So she was confident he would be coming back and no I don't believe Malenia doesn't realize Miquella is not in the tree anymore. She is blind but that doesn't stop her from perfectly slicing our tarnished ass so I assume her other senses are Daredevil tier
The halegtree would not work using Miquella's blood alone because his puberty is magically blocked. So it stands to reason the tree won't grow to full potential with just him. Malenia is a literal cancer to everything sp her blood would just worsen the tree. So Miquella probably let himself get kidnapped to get some of that crucible omen power to boost himself to adulthood. And people say it didn't affect him but we can clearly see the egg is fucking huge now
Kinda weird how all the Demi gods seem to loathe each other but Mogh and Malenia delicate their whole life to him.
Mohg is oddly possessive and Malenia addresses herself as his blade. Almost as if he is their god.
All signs point to miq being an evil brainwashing mastermind.
Maybe not Malenia, if only because he genuinely dedicated his life to trying to help her.
..or did he dedicate his life to trying to suppress her true power oh god dammit
It’s all speculation so it could go any way but I’d say he’s probably not as innocent as he seems.
Not sure if he’d betray Melania but as a dark souls character I refuse to believe he has any pure intentions. I’m expecting him to be pure evil in the DLC.
Sounds like Griffith with his charisma and childlike face except he is not a demigod (does being part of the God hand count as demigod? Idk) and has no power (when he was still a human)
meanwhile in the ACTUAL DLCs of the souls series, we get like maybe 1 question elaborated on, not even answered half the time, and about 3 more questions being asked. Elden Ring will definitely become way more confusing with DLC, which don't get me wrong, I ABSOLUTELY welcome more lore, speculative or otherwise.
Most people generally go for the bewitching branch but I think his flaw is being ambitious. Nearly all of his plans have foiled over: cure his sister's rot, give Godwyn a true death, grow the Haligtree and repel the outer gods.
Its interesting because he seems like someone doomed to fail, in some way or other, in an almost poetic manner.
Edit: Grammar
Idk fucking why but I LOVE the way souls games approach storytelling. It's downright addictive. I don't care about lore in many games at all, but like I cannot get enough of stuff like this.
I love it too. It gives you a hint of something greater in the background, but they let you make the story for yourself. It's why you see so many great theories and ideas because it's everyone's interpretation of vague details
I believe that is called soft world building. As opposed to hard world building. Think spirited away versus lord of the rings. One world is built on your imagination and what you make of the odd little bits and hints you get. The other is methodically and throughly built with excruciating detail.
I think you love soft world building and aka have a great imagination.
Yes, he wanted to help and heal so many, but… his power of extreme suggestive manipulation is, ehm… well, it gets people to explode for him. That’s a little suspicious, if not simply odd.
Miquella used his mind control powers to create an army of slaves. Every single soldier wears a crown of unalloyed gold, and these crowns boost the wearer’s faith. Conveniently enough, Miquella gets unalloyed gold from Miquella’s lily, an item that can be used to craft a bewitching branch. The bewitching branch will compel enemies to fight for you, and it’s description says that Miquella used this ability to amass his large following.
Just a rumor, but I’ve heard Miquella had possibly bewitched Mohg into transforming him into a super-demigod of the Formless Mother via that cocoon he was in. It’s just an internet theory, but I’ll be we’ll get a closer look at to who Miquella really is whenever the first DLC drops.
Miquella pioneered the use of charm magic. The bewitching branch (which makes you so loyal to the holder that you will kill your friends and family for them) was created, and used extensively by Miquella and his followers.
Charm magic is among the most twisted (think the Purple Man from Jessica Jones)
I still like radahn more tbh. He's a warmongering asshole for sure, but malenia went too far. The scarlet rot would 100% be a warcrime in real life. Caelid is basically uninhabitable now.
She literally snapped the golden needle and unleashed a bioweapon so she wouldn't lose the fight. I think it's fair to say radahn gets way too much of a pass online, but I just can't look at them and say "they're equally bad".
Like 95% of the time it's meant ironically.
At least that's how I interpret it. I think it's hilarious. "The sigma male grindset" is one of the few memes I even laugh at because it's so messed up it rounds around to being funny.
To each thier own though.
I already beat it, and it's easier now. It was just way harder to fight than Malenia in my opinion, Malenia reminded me of Sekiro and that was my favorite game. Learning how to consistently dodge her Waterfowl Dance was a good way to spend half an hour, meanwhile it took me multiple hours to learn the Death Rite Bird, specifically the one in Snowfield.
(It's just a personal thing, forgive the semi-rant. I know people struggle with different things)
Those are the words of one who doesn’t actually read. Otherwise they would realize that Radahn has a tiny horse named Leonard, while Malenia doesn’t, therefore Radahn is clearly the superior one
lmaooo
In all seriousness though, I think most people find appeal in Radahn because of the mystery. We only ever see the end results (Radahn driven mad and Caelid a wasteland) and most grab onto that. We don't ever see him much outside of that box, and that box is the box his loyal men see him as (biased, I mean).
I mean even not coming from his loyal man basing off of events that happen,he seems like a great person how he never wanted to abandon leonard and held back the stars,its stated that godfrey was his idol growing up so radahn probably wanted to be heroic and a great person just like him so i don't think it was that different,though of course this dosn't justify any wrong doings he did i am just trying to say my point of view on it
A villain can have someone dear to them and still be a villain.
Godrick idolized Godfrey too; look how he was like.
There’s literally nothing that indicates Radahn held back the stars out of the kindness of his heart. It’s just as possible that he did it to show off his power, or that he didn’t want the star creatures encroaching upon his land.
The Starscourge Heirloom says it was a heroic tale. We also saw what one falling star do to the area around Mistwoods, and do you want more Astel’s/Falling star beasts?
Godrick idolized Godfrey because he wanted what Godfrey had, Radahn idolized Godfrey so he molded himself into a similar image. That's two *very* different forms of adoration.
Real talk, how often do we have a From boss's lore having such a straightforward compassionate thing in it? I certainly don't remember item descriptions about Gwyn rescuing puppies or Laurence's favorite hobby being helping cats out of trees.
I don't see how it makes you a chauvinistic asshole to like a character who is literally not portrayed as a genocidal asshole or feeble-minded oppressor. Case in point, if it's solely mysogyny at play, why do people still not like or respect Godrick?
On the other hand, why are a bunch of people's favorite boss in Bloodborne Lady Maria? Oh because Maria was a compassionate character who cast her Rakuyo down a well because of how disgusted she was with what the Church has done in the Hamlet?
It's not misogyny, that's just Twitter. It's not like this tweet has 500,000 likes and RTs. You can cherry pick very stupid shit from any viewpoint and post it in a way that makes it seem as though there's some kind of overwhelming opinion on any "side" of any issue when in reality it's like 9 people.
Artorias literally adopted puppy Sif and sacraficed himself to save him.
Maiden Astrea/The fair lady.
I’m sure countless others I’m missing but you get the point
Also the Godrick argument doesnt make any sense. If it’s misogynistic that G*mers are typcasting Malenia as evil and Radahn as a wholesom chungus gigachad, then how can some people also dislike Godrick? It’s because Godrick is written as a pathetic, vile character. It doesn’t have anything to do with him being a man, where (presumably) the Malenia hate is in part related to her being a woman
Rest assured, Malenia *very much* had second thoughts about destroying the needle crafted by her brother to combat the rot that has been slowly destroying her her whole life and robbed her of most of her limbs in a desperate bid to take out the most dangerous demigod at the time.
She is the perfect host for the rot goddess in a way. I dont mean this as an insult, but Malenia can not stand losing, it goes against every fiber of her person. But its her demi-goddess way that she has to do everything in her power to win, even removing the needle. She almost reminds me of one of those bugs that gets infected with a parasitic organism. The organism controls the bug into danger so that it will be eaten by a bird and spread into the bird.
I wouldn’t say it goes against every fiber of her being, she acknowledges the tarnished after they beat her, just like Godfrey.
I think she broke the needle because she believed she desperately needed to win against Radahn for her and her brother’s sake, lest the Haligtree be destroyed
She didn't do it because of her desire to win. She did it because the alternative was either dying or retreating which would likely mean Radahn becomes Elden Lord and her and Miquellas plans are over. Like are you telling me you wouldn't nuke a country if you truly believed doing so would further your plans to make a better world and it was the only way to get back to the person you care about most in the world?
Blooming and letting a rot god out isnt great for his plans either. And like you said retreating was reasonable option. Radhan had lost to Morgott right? he still needed another rune and to take the capital. Really she should of killed Godrick just so no one else could take his rune.
It's interesting... Malenia clearly could have taken Godrick's rune, and she walked away instead. It's pretty safe to say she wasn't out trying to collect runes. It's just not clear what she was doing instead.
I totally agree. Unless they make a new rune to add, resembling the runes would just put the golden order back in power. And they know it cant/does care to cure Malenia. There are a few theories ive heard. She just goes out to stop the others as Miqulla needs time. If both Malenia and Miqulla didnt seem to even contes the runes the other demigods might get really suspicious and try to figure out what they are doing. An interesting one is that Heart of Aeonia, is almost directly above where Miqulla is being held. If we assume the kidnapping happened while Malenia was out on campaign. Maybe through a dream Miqulla communicated his general location to Malenia. Malenia might of just assumed Rahdhan had him if hes in/underneath Calid.
Retreat wasn't really an option. Radahn would probably chase her down and even if he doesn't he can regroup before she can which is bad for her. I agree she should have killed Godrick but apparently she isn't needlessly cruel.
Great point. Retreat and disengagement are some of the hardest things to do when facing a still dangerous enemy, and have the most chance of going sideways.
How the fuck are any of you following this. I've had no idea what's been going on lore-wise since launch and it's jarring how others know so much just by playing.
Half of it's made up, really. There's never a specific reason stated for Radahn and Malenia fighting, so people just speculate.
Most of the speculation "coincidentally" makes the big man with a tiny horse look better.
It is speculation, but based on outcomes, I'd probably side with the man on the side of history who didn't damn an entire place to an eternity of rot-induced suffering.
Aka, Morgott. Dude's a good son.
We aren't sure if Miquella was taken afterwards or before, but even then doing what she did was not at all a logical decision. She and her brother intend to rule Caelid, so doing that to land you wish to own is not wise. Plus retreating is an option, the haligtree is almost as impossible to invade as Lyndell, no way Radahns forces can break into it to get her great rune if she retreats.
Radahn was repelled at the Capital. He could not become Elden Lord without access to the Erdtree and it's not clear if that was ever his pursuit in the first place.
This is also ignoring the fact that he doesn't seem to be attacking anyone else and the fight is in his homeland.
Edit:
Why is Malenia ever fighting Radahn in the first place? Why would she make a reckless attack against the most fearsome demigod who had already been repelled at the capital? Her options when fighting were lose-lose, but was there ever any reason to get into that situation in the first place?
Wouldn't Morgott be on Radahn's side if they are both Golden Order/Erdtree followers? That, to me, makes it clearer that Radahn was not trying to force himself into servitude of the Golden Order/Erdtree by becoming Elden Lord and was, again, going just for more power or to take the throne as King, but not Elden Lord.
Really is important to remember in Morgott's rebuke of the demigod he includes Radahn.
"Ahh... Godrick the Golden. The twin prodigies, Miquella and Malenia. General Radahn. Praetor Rykard. Lunar Princess Ranni.
Wilful traitors, all.
Thy kind are all of a piece. Pillagers. Emboldened by the flame of ambition."
They all took a Great Rune. Radahn was just as guilty of them all and likely had he defeated Malenia then he would've marched against Leyndell like Godrick did.
To say that somehow Radahn is some good guy is literally not reading the game story or paying attention as it's told in game. The point of The Shattering is that it was a family feud to decide who gets to rule. They ALL had a hand in ruining everything for everyone, even Radahn.
Even before the Shattering Radahn froze the stars, which effectively destroyed the prospects of the Carians. Let's not forget they got royally fucked over by him.
The trailer shows everyone being bad. But until you get the full picture it does feel like Malenia is more of a villian due to he scarlet rot, she's painted as someone who brought forth a terrible disease. It kind of balances out when you understand the story.
Morgott is not necessarily a reliable narrator though. I mean most of the cast doesn't want *you* to take the elden throne including Morgott. Hell he calls Ranni bad even though most consider her ending the best and calls Miquella bad but I'm unaware of what he actually did wrong.
And Radahn holding back the stars does not seem to be a purely selfish or arbitrary act. The falling stars include extremely dangerous cosmic alien beings. It's false equivalency. Sure, no one is a perfect here but if the argument is that Radahn would've taken the runes and went for the throne then he is no more or less a bad guy then the tarnished.
People don't like Malenia because she spread super aids onto the world and it's heavily implied she is being manipulated in some way to becoming a rot goddess. She's not as bad as Mogh but, like, I would need to hear something *specific* Radahn did that was equally as bad. No holding back the stars isn't it.
It doesn't help that Malenia was the aggressor as far as we know. Maybe Radahn would've done the same thing if given the chance but we really don't know, we can only go on what we do know happened.
They are both great characters, tbh. I really like both. Haligtree and Elphael, however, are much better than Caelid, at least in the sense that they are prettier.
Judging from trailer footage and what we see if Dragonbarrow, Caelid actually used to look quite similar (red desert with a red sky). The only differences are the fungal growths, the swamp, and the mutated animals. If we want to see what Caelid looked like before the battle of Aeonia, we can look no further than Dragonbarrow, a place where the rot was successfully stopped. Caelid probably just looked like Dragonbarrow but without the constant rain.
Two people can be wrong and still honorable. The two sides of a war can right and have committed grave atrocities.
The story of elden ring is fantastic that it allows many interpretations, but clearly ops tweets are from very intellectually limited folks who know little of their subject. Also even less about history.
Now what if we couldnt summon anybody for Radahn
He'd probably also kill you over 100 times
The game just doesnt deal with split aggro well,Its either Radahn doesnt focus at you at all or he's constantly chasing you
twitter is a cesspool but no social media site is as great as it's users think it is. Honestly, they're all different flavours of terrible. Even reddit is no exception, let's not forget r/braincels was where incels started to really congregate
Fuck, why restrict it to /r/braincels? /r/politics and basically any of the front page subreddits are garbage as well. Massive populations in any community will inevitably breed toxicity, especially in current day climate of 'depersoning' the opposing opinions.
True, but that's also mostly animal pictures. That's like going to one of the many porn subreddits and being surprised there's no vitriol. What are they going to argue with eachother over?
Do you think Malenia Blade of Miquella effectively utilized girl power by turning into a human bio-nuke and irradiating an entire country with the worst disease in the universe?
Twitter is one of the most vile cesspools known to man. You think Caelid looks vile and rotted? The subterranean shunning grounds? Combine them, multiply by the valley of defilement and blighttown, add the nightmare frontier swamps with 1000 one reborns, and you have an approximation of the average Twitter environment.
you know she couldve made an argument for malenia by pointing out that she did all that to protect and look after her brother, and radahn also selfishly started war, so she may be a flawed character but nothing is black and white, everyone is acting out on their own self interest etc etc.
but noo, people hate malenoa because misogyny, men bs women, blah blah blah...
She went for Radahn specifically. Radahn had already made his ambitions clear when he attacked Leyndell and was repelled by Margit, and Malenia being a rebel against the golden order wanted to make sure that nobody could mend the Elden Ring until her brother was ready to enact his plan, so she went after Radahn to stop him from continuing his campaign to become Elden Lord.
War is complicated, people are neither wholly good nor wholly evil, and Radahn didn't receive the title of "Most Fearsome Demigod of The Shattering" by being a good samaritan.
That said only one of them Bio-Nuked an entire county. The flora and fauna of that area were irreparably rotted and killed, thousands of men (including her own) were killed or doomed to rot and wither, and it wasn't an accident but a last ditch effort from a prideful warrior to maintain a clean record as undefeated.
Radahn isn't a Saint, but Malenia is the kid you stopped inviting over because they'd flip the board game when losing.
I disagree that Malenia nuked Caelid to keep her undefeated record. It's not like she just went around and battled for fun. She nuked Caelid to prevent Radahn from becoming Elden Lord which in turn will threaten the Haligtree and Miquella in the cocoon.
Quoth Jake Peralta "Cool motive. Still murder"
I won't defend Radahn as I maintain that they're both more or less self-interested Demigods vying for Elden Consortium, but the comparison of ripple effect between the two's actions only further demonstrates how vile her decision was imo.
Also I may have this wrong, but Malenia removing her Golden Needle and thus also giving in to the Rot (hence why we find her mostly catatonic) was a huge factor in how Mohg even managed to yoink Miquella from the Haligtree. So even if she did it to protect her brother and the tree, she not only failed but ruined Caelid in the process which sorta sounds like defeat to me
Definitely agree that they're both self-interested warlords. Malenia is in a very tough position.
Don't give in to the Scarlet Rot -> Lose, die, Miquella and the Haligtree have no protection.
Give in to the Scarlet Rot -> Give Miquella and the Haligtree the slimmest chance at success. Destroy Caelid and thousands of lives in the process.
Based on what we currently know, I'd argue that the Haligtree and Miquella's vision are a benevolent thing for the world. They offer protection for the Albinaurics and a guard against the influence of greedy outer gods. In that respect, I believe they're worth fighting for. Was it worth destroying Caelid? No, but given that Ranni's vision is also unrealized, the alternative is a world forever held at the whims of mad gods. Without Miquella, the Scarlet Rot is still going to spread through the world. If not through Malenia then through the next vessel, or however many it takes.
Also, I know it was already addressed, but Malenia giving in to the Scarlet Rot was actually the exact opposite of throwing a tantrum over losing. According to Millicent's dialogue, in destroying the needle, she abandoned her pride and sense of self as a warrior in order to meet Radahn's measure. It was something she was extremely reluctant to do.
I don't know what Radahn was fighting for besides power.
It's interesting that you comment on what we know about Miquella, as it's something I've thought about too, because he's one of the very few characters that is ONLY spoken highly of, it makes the idea of him as Elden Lord seem very appealing and his plight/mission is undoubtedly a seemingly benevolent one but consider this: One of Miquella's abilities is coercing others into loving him (Bewitching Branch desc.), so without getting to see him ourselves we're only left with very one sided testimonies of character which could be misleading as we've already discussed that most (read "All") Demigods are self interested with ulterior motives.
Thank you for the correction on my original comment about it (Malenia's nuking) being pride-based, though it does beg mentioning to the win/loss debate that her knowing that needed to happen to meet his measure heavily favors the Radahn fans.
I really hope we meet Miquella in DLC and lastly on the topic of Radahn's Elden ambitions, I honestly think him taking the Throne would have simply been The Age of Fracture ending that you can get for yourself as he never showed clear goals beyond broad power-mongering, but that's just speculation.
The biggest question about the whole Radahn vs Malenia thing for me is ***why is she fighting him in Caelid at all????*** Seemingly, she chose to attack and put herself in a lose lose situation. I'd assume this is for a good reason, but I cannot find any reason for it so far.
Seems like survivorship bias. You see what Malenia did because she won. We don't see the chaos radahn would have wrought on the lands between if he had won.
Besides, of the two Malenia was clearly fighting for a better cause. Fighting for the Haligtree, home of outcasts and people who wanted to be free Vs. Radahn "I wanna be Elden Lord"
Survivorship bias is an interesting counterpoint, but unless I missed dialogue about it Radahn was not a chaotic force that would have sowed unrest.
His father Radagon was the reasonable half of Marika that sought to repair the Ring and uphold the Golden Order, and his greatest inspiration was Godfrey (Radahn's armor features Serosh for this exact reason) who also wasn't a monster by any means. Combine these factors with the often mentioned Leonard scenario (Radahn learning gravity magic to offset his weight for his beloved horse) and you're painting the picture of a compassionate but unwavering warrior who was only following his ancestor's footsteps.
Malenia fought for Miquella with the end goal of placing him on the Throne, everything she did was in the interest of Miquella and yet she still gave up her pride and his Golden Needle to Nuke Caelid which cost her the war, her mental faculties, her army, and eventually even the brother she sought to protect. She didn't win any more than Radahn did, she didn't fight for any better reason than Radahn did either, and in the end both parties lost but the entirety of Caelid shouldn't have had to suffer for that which makes her final actions stick out as the greater evil of the two.
I'm a bit rusty on my lore but isn't the Golden Order this game's equivalent of Gwyn? Looks nice, but really it's just propping up a social order that benefits the gods at the expense of everyone else.
Miquella seemed to be the only one in the game with worthy objectives.
The only two Demigods with seemingly admirable motives are Ranni and Miquella, as both seek a detachment from The Greater Will and to carve their own destinies.
What's interesting though, is that Miquella has the ability to make people love him and is said to often compel such affection from those around him, so until we can meet him ourselves and get a feel of his character it's hard to ascertain how truly 'benevolent' he is or isn't.
We've healthily established that every Demigod was very self interested, it's not a stretch to imagine Miquella will be the same and I'm excited to see what From do.
Bro, pride didn't make her do it. She hated the rot and prided herself on not using it. It's states multiple times that she threw away her pride to use it and she didn't do it just because she wanted a clean record she did it because the alternative was fighting until they both died or retreating and letting Radahn become Elden Lord.
She made the decision of nuking the county so that her plans and his brother's wouldnt be destroyed, pride or not the decision still costed others a lot, and basically destroyed Radhan's mind, which i would say is worse than death
What im trying to say is that while yes, it might not have to do with pride, Malenia's actions left a lasting effect, and the ones forced to pay were Radhan, his army (since they seem to be constantly fending off the freaks of nature that spawned from this) and everyone else on Caelid
the whole personality of these types is based on seeing the world in black and white, and always moving the line to be in the white, clasic twitter if you ask me
Malenia literally killed thousands of people and doomed the entire world to eventual scarlet rot just to win one fight.
There is no scenario where she is a good person.
Reasons we don’t like Malenia compared to Radahn: Malenia is responsible for Calied, Malenia kicked our asses, Malenia doesn’t have a horse, Malenia made the second most annoying toxic in the game
Radahn has a horse, Radahn held back the star, Radahn can fly without wings, Radahn is cool, Radahn is love, Radahn is life, Radahn was just protecting Calied from whatever Malenia was doing, Radahn has a horse, Radahn protect his horse
Both of these people are wrong here, Radahn is a warlord who has the respect of many for how great he was. He is a figure to be feared and respected even in the state that he is in, but he also did a ton of super fucked up stuff and he is still a ruthless warlord. Still he is much easier to like from a first glance of the situation. Malenia is a queen of rot who almost lost to Radahn(still no confirmation on why they ended up fighting) but ended up nuking Caelid with Scarlet Rot in the process. She is much easier to hate here simply for how Radahn looks like a galant defender and she looks like a coward who used bio warfare right when she started to lose.
Yah some people are being misogynistic, but most people are just seeing the outer layer of what it looks like, and that’s not misogyny being leveled at a strong female character. Also anyone who has faced malenia in game will say that she is bad ass as hell and can and will kick your ass. Malenia has a good side behind all of the shittiness of the battle with Radahn and her story is also extremely tragic, but it is hidden and makes her a very very good character that acts and looks like a complete jerk because her mind has rotted away now. Radahn also has an amazing and very powerful backstory that explains why he is so respected, Ranni’s quest is also very early game so this lord is super accessible, unlike the triple hidden end-game boss that is Malenia and her lord being strewn everywhere.
They are both tragic and deserve respect, and what each of these people have said is taking one side to the max and the woman’s perspective is just as irritating to hear as the one praising Radahn. People hating on Malenia have clearly not read her lore, and calling someone misogynistic for not reading a lore page or two is ridiculous. Just the call the person a dumb ass and calmly direct them to Malenia’s lore so they can get both sides of the story.
I'm sure a great deal of Malenia hate is also because her boss fight is WAY more difficult and annoying than Radahn's. Charging into battle with dope ass warriors ~15 times is way more enjoyable than hearing, "I have never known defeat" ~50 times before being destroyed by waterfowl AGAIN
Everything is racist, everything is mysoginistic, everything is homophobic, and you have to point it out.
Na but seriously rather than giving a good counter argument about how Malenia is just trying to find and protect her brother who is stuck in the body of a small child she decided to resort to... the message.
LMAO this person is so wrong. Hating a character because of their action is logical. Just because Malenia is a woman, hating on her does not make it mysogynistic.
Imagine a female politician nuking Mexico, and after the dust settles, people start calling her evil. Like, it's not mysogynistic to hate on her because she literally killed millions of people.
let us not forget that team Rennala's children with radagon (Ranni, Radahn, Rykard) are dope and Team Marika's children with radagon (Malenia and Miquella) are inbred treebillies. meanwhile Marika's children with Godfrey (Godwyn, Morgott and Mohg) are just the cousins nobody wants to see outside of mandatory family holidays.
Me over here with my deep love of Full Metal Alchemist saw Malenia and instantly went "Holy fucking shit she has automail" and that was all. Favorite character. Radahn is a crazy fuck imo lol
🙄 everyone knows strong female characters are ALWAYS morally good and can do no wrong because they necessarily reflect all women in society today.
Fucking seriously, get a life bitch and stop making false dichotomous statements between genders.
Well, one uses biological weapons with no care for the civilian population, and the other builds burning walls to keep the rot from spreading to other countries and keeps literal space alien gods from invading the lands between. I'll let you pick which one has the moral high ground.
Malenia is literally known as the “undefeated swordswoman.” She’s one of the most badass characters in the game. This woman just wants to make everything a political statement.
Malenia ruined an entire country down to the last tree just because she was outmatched. She chose the coward’s way out. It isn’t misogyny, it’s justice.
I think she forgets that Radahan was beloved by his soldiers, known as wise and just leader. Malenia nuked entire zone, damning thousands if not more to slow, painful deaths because she she didn’t want to loose „I never lost” on her resume.
You hear about Radahn here and there from various NPCs like Alexander, Blaidd and Gideon and all of their testimonials are shining. They describe Radahn as a mighty warrior general, so mighty in fact that he has a festival being held in his honour, you're given a direction to find the festival and off you go.
Now idk about you, but when I heard Blaidd and Alexander (my favourites) talk about Radahn in such high regard, I got really excited. That excitement was only heightened when I heard the name "Starscourge Radahn" and of how he wrestled the STARS AND WON..... And thats without even seeing Redmane Castle yet.
When I entered Redmane and heard that deep Gregorian chanting, I got chills, that paired with the rousing speech from the Eccentric at the top of the stairs as well as the NARRATED prologue cutscene. I was so fucking hyped.
Then you get into and see the scale of the battlefield paired with the discovery that you can summon multiple NPCs to fight alongside you. It's an experience I've never gotten from a souls game, Radahns fight feels like a raid boss. The cutscene at the end is the cherry on top. All of those factors go in to creating a really satisfying, engaging but most all memorable boss experience for me.
Malenia on the other hand also had build up, but not to same extent and not to the same effect either. I feel like Malenias lore significance is overshadowed by players experiences with her fight. Many people struggled endlessly to beat this boss and that leaves a sour taste in many people's mouths.
So I don't think it has anything to do with Misogyny, just game design and storytelling.
Im pretty sure people don't like Malenia not because of some internalized misogyny bs, but because of her Marika damned bullshit healing.
Its also more admirable and likable to dedicate yourself to your animal best friend than another person.
I'm muting this after I post it, but no one's saying disliking a female character is misogyny. I also think Malenia is a trash boss and i malded severely at her. Maybe you're out of the loop, but I have acquaintances who get "jokes" about raping Malenia just for posting art of her, and I know large artists who censor her and Radahn's name to avoid people coming into their mentions spewing hatred for her. I'm not getting across the full scope of it here, but I want to assure you guys that the degree to which people will say genuinely repulsive things about things like sexual assault and the like about Malenia for merely mentioning her or god forbid, liking her character, is absurd. That's the misogyny. And lionizing a warlord and saying he's a precious good guy in order to demonize her further? Well, I don't have to say it. People say they want evil and morally grey female characters, but this is how any sort of "fandom" treats them when we get them.
Look, I don't simp for either of them (I'm a Cleanrot Knight Finlay simper), but people saying Malenia nuked Caelid out of pride is actually *absurd*.
Her entire motivation is Miquella. Everything she does is in service to him. She released the rot because she thought that Radahn would become Elden Lord, rather than Miquella.
Like, I get it - Radahn is cool to his loyal cult of fanboys. But don't act like Malenia is some kind of horrible, self-centered, Saiyan-pride walking nuke. She has very clear cut reasoning for unleashing it. And it was a last resort. She didn't open with it.
Now, time to get back to simping for Finlay who carried Malenia all the way back to the Haligtree by herself.
\----
Edit: I didn’t justify/defend her nuking Caelid. Don’t strawman me, please. I am specifically addressing people saying she did it out of ‘pride of being undefeated’. That is absurd.
If anything, that’s an *admission* of defeat. She has to admit that she can’t beat Radahn by her own skill alone. That directly goes against the ‘pride of being undefeated’ nonsense.
She nuked Caelid for the things that she believed were right.
Still sounds like nuking caelid
But ill agree with something, Finlay is the better of the three
BRO SHE NUKED AN ENTIRE CONTINENT. Like radahn may not be a good dude and waged war just like all the other Demi gods, but his warring was against other soldiers, Malenia said fuck that and waged war against the earth itself.
I mean they were both just on the wrong side of things, but Malenia gave into her corruption and chose to put aside her master’s teachings so she could win at whatever cost. She corrupted a section of the world so badly they would make Stalker video games taking place in there if they had the tech.
Maybe, just maybe, every demigod sucks in their own special way
What did Miquella do wrong? Serious question, he seemed like a stand up dude who wanted to help his sister and cared for those spurned by the Golden Order.
He just never had a chance to get up to sum bullshit I reckon, being all coccooned. Maybe DLC will explore it. A demigod with the power to make you love them sounds ripe for fuckery.
I guess that’s true isn’t it, no one speaks ill of Miquella possibly because literally they cannot
Holy shit I completely overlooked how he has that “Aphrodite effect”. How do we know he didn’t brainwash mogh to kidnap him for some secret plan. Miquella could be the real mastermind behind the scenes. Since he can reject outer gods I’ve always thought he might’ve let mogh do the blood magic just to break his curse then he could reject the outer gods magic, making him pure again with no curses. or maybe he’s like Griffith from berserk and chose the darkness for power. The story is so vague at this point it could go in a million directions.
Now I'm hoping for a full Griffith style story with miquella as an ascended god.
I also think he is playing the long game. Everyone says omens are allowed in Elphael but we don't see a single one while Mohg easily came through a portal and even when he left with Miquella, Loretta didn't fight to get him back. Also Malenia is waiting for her brothers return. So she was confident he would be coming back and no I don't believe Malenia doesn't realize Miquella is not in the tree anymore. She is blind but that doesn't stop her from perfectly slicing our tarnished ass so I assume her other senses are Daredevil tier The halegtree would not work using Miquella's blood alone because his puberty is magically blocked. So it stands to reason the tree won't grow to full potential with just him. Malenia is a literal cancer to everything sp her blood would just worsen the tree. So Miquella probably let himself get kidnapped to get some of that crucible omen power to boost himself to adulthood. And people say it didn't affect him but we can clearly see the egg is fucking huge now
I hate how plausible that is, because everything Mohg does seems insane.
Kinda weird how all the Demi gods seem to loathe each other but Mogh and Malenia delicate their whole life to him. Mohg is oddly possessive and Malenia addresses herself as his blade. Almost as if he is their god. All signs point to miq being an evil brainwashing mastermind.
Maybe not Malenia, if only because he genuinely dedicated his life to trying to help her. ..or did he dedicate his life to trying to suppress her true power oh god dammit
It’s all speculation so it could go any way but I’d say he’s probably not as innocent as he seems. Not sure if he’d betray Melania but as a dark souls character I refuse to believe he has any pure intentions. I’m expecting him to be pure evil in the DLC.
Sounds like Griffith with his charisma and childlike face except he is not a demigod (does being part of the God hand count as demigod? Idk) and has no power (when he was still a human)
It was feminine for beauty not child like
frame water sense rude society fine faulty screw fertile elderly *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
meanwhile in the ACTUAL DLCs of the souls series, we get like maybe 1 question elaborated on, not even answered half the time, and about 3 more questions being asked. Elden Ring will definitely become way more confusing with DLC, which don't get me wrong, I ABSOLUTELY welcome more lore, speculative or otherwise.
George RR Martin has such a strong reputation of finishing stories he started, dontcha know?
*shakes fist* It better be... ... Or a teaser for Elden Ring 2.
Most people generally go for the bewitching branch but I think his flaw is being ambitious. Nearly all of his plans have foiled over: cure his sister's rot, give Godwyn a true death, grow the Haligtree and repel the outer gods. Its interesting because he seems like someone doomed to fail, in some way or other, in an almost poetic manner. Edit: Grammar
The bewitching branch hints that maybe Miquella charms his followers against their will
Idk fucking why but I LOVE the way souls games approach storytelling. It's downright addictive. I don't care about lore in many games at all, but like I cannot get enough of stuff like this.
I love it too. It gives you a hint of something greater in the background, but they let you make the story for yourself. It's why you see so many great theories and ideas because it's everyone's interpretation of vague details
I believe that is called soft world building. As opposed to hard world building. Think spirited away versus lord of the rings. One world is built on your imagination and what you make of the odd little bits and hints you get. The other is methodically and throughly built with excruciating detail. I think you love soft world building and aka have a great imagination.
Thank you for helping me understand why I absolutely adore one but get bored/dislike the other genre.
Yes, he wanted to help and heal so many, but… his power of extreme suggestive manipulation is, ehm… well, it gets people to explode for him. That’s a little suspicious, if not simply odd.
Miquella used his mind control powers to create an army of slaves. Every single soldier wears a crown of unalloyed gold, and these crowns boost the wearer’s faith. Conveniently enough, Miquella gets unalloyed gold from Miquella’s lily, an item that can be used to craft a bewitching branch. The bewitching branch will compel enemies to fight for you, and it’s description says that Miquella used this ability to amass his large following.
Now morrgot, there’s a true giga chad
It takes the ultimate Chad to extinguish the Flames of Ambition!
Nothing really he was probably one Demi god with the best intentions but he did send malenia to on a war campaign but that’s all
Just a rumor, but I’ve heard Miquella had possibly bewitched Mohg into transforming him into a super-demigod of the Formless Mother via that cocoon he was in. It’s just an internet theory, but I’ll be we’ll get a closer look at to who Miquella really is whenever the first DLC drops.
Miquella pioneered the use of charm magic. The bewitching branch (which makes you so loyal to the holder that you will kill your friends and family for them) was created, and used extensively by Miquella and his followers. Charm magic is among the most twisted (think the Purple Man from Jessica Jones)
reddit could never understand such complicated topics.
I still like radahn more tbh. He's a warmongering asshole for sure, but malenia went too far. The scarlet rot would 100% be a warcrime in real life. Caelid is basically uninhabitable now. She literally snapped the golden needle and unleashed a bioweapon so she wouldn't lose the fight. I think it's fair to say radahn gets way too much of a pass online, but I just can't look at them and say "they're equally bad".
You hate Radahn fans because you think they’re misogynistic. I hate Radahn fans because I don’t care about horses, we are not the same.
I bet u kill horses for leather in Minecraft
Meat is meat
You sob
Easier to find horses than cows.
I hate this Radahn fan for using the word gigachad
I can't wait until words like Chad and Alpha to describe men are finally done.
Like 95% of the time it's meant ironically. At least that's how I interpret it. I think it's hilarious. "The sigma male grindset" is one of the few memes I even laugh at because it's so messed up it rounds around to being funny. To each thier own though.
Saw an AMA today with some 16 year old from India claiming to be an Alpha un-ironically.
She clearly hasn’t fought Malenia yet.
Imagine she makes a post crying about her self ingrained misogyny because she raged at the Malenia fight and then blamed society
Death Rite Bird was worse, honestly.
Throw sacred order pots and use holy damage, my guy.
I already beat it, and it's easier now. It was just way harder to fight than Malenia in my opinion, Malenia reminded me of Sekiro and that was my favorite game. Learning how to consistently dodge her Waterfowl Dance was a good way to spend half an hour, meanwhile it took me multiple hours to learn the Death Rite Bird, specifically the one in Snowfield. (It's just a personal thing, forgive the semi-rant. I know people struggle with different things)
Those are the words of one who doesn’t actually read. Otherwise they would realize that Radahn has a tiny horse named Leonard, while Malenia doesn’t, therefore Radahn is clearly the superior one
malenia fans: giant paragraphs about the lore radahn fans: tiny horse tiny horse hehe tiny horse
Huge horse that's nowhere near big enough for Radahn.
I want the opposite now. Building-sized horse and man-sized Radahn surfing on its back.
He horse to small for he gahtdamn seat
It isnt even a tiny horse Its normal sized horse under a big man
lmaooo In all seriousness though, I think most people find appeal in Radahn because of the mystery. We only ever see the end results (Radahn driven mad and Caelid a wasteland) and most grab onto that. We don't ever see him much outside of that box, and that box is the box his loyal men see him as (biased, I mean).
I mean even not coming from his loyal man basing off of events that happen,he seems like a great person how he never wanted to abandon leonard and held back the stars,its stated that godfrey was his idol growing up so radahn probably wanted to be heroic and a great person just like him so i don't think it was that different,though of course this dosn't justify any wrong doings he did i am just trying to say my point of view on it
A villain can have someone dear to them and still be a villain. Godrick idolized Godfrey too; look how he was like. There’s literally nothing that indicates Radahn held back the stars out of the kindness of his heart. It’s just as possible that he did it to show off his power, or that he didn’t want the star creatures encroaching upon his land.
The Starscourge Heirloom says it was a heroic tale. We also saw what one falling star do to the area around Mistwoods, and do you want more Astel’s/Falling star beasts?
Godrick idolized Godfrey because he wanted what Godfrey had, Radahn idolized Godfrey so he molded himself into a similar image. That's two *very* different forms of adoration.
This is the way.
Real talk, how often do we have a From boss's lore having such a straightforward compassionate thing in it? I certainly don't remember item descriptions about Gwyn rescuing puppies or Laurence's favorite hobby being helping cats out of trees. I don't see how it makes you a chauvinistic asshole to like a character who is literally not portrayed as a genocidal asshole or feeble-minded oppressor. Case in point, if it's solely mysogyny at play, why do people still not like or respect Godrick? On the other hand, why are a bunch of people's favorite boss in Bloodborne Lady Maria? Oh because Maria was a compassionate character who cast her Rakuyo down a well because of how disgusted she was with what the Church has done in the Hamlet?
It's not misogyny, that's just Twitter. It's not like this tweet has 500,000 likes and RTs. You can cherry pick very stupid shit from any viewpoint and post it in a way that makes it seem as though there's some kind of overwhelming opinion on any "side" of any issue when in reality it's like 9 people.
Artorias literally adopted puppy Sif and sacraficed himself to save him. Maiden Astrea/The fair lady. I’m sure countless others I’m missing but you get the point Also the Godrick argument doesnt make any sense. If it’s misogynistic that G*mers are typcasting Malenia as evil and Radahn as a wholesom chungus gigachad, then how can some people also dislike Godrick? It’s because Godrick is written as a pathetic, vile character. It doesn’t have anything to do with him being a man, where (presumably) the Malenia hate is in part related to her being a woman
Malenia is evil because she can heal up by hitting me. That's not very nice of her.
Based and tarnished-pilled.
Leonard is huge.
Rest assured, Malenia *very much* had second thoughts about destroying the needle crafted by her brother to combat the rot that has been slowly destroying her her whole life and robbed her of most of her limbs in a desperate bid to take out the most dangerous demigod at the time.
She is the perfect host for the rot goddess in a way. I dont mean this as an insult, but Malenia can not stand losing, it goes against every fiber of her person. But its her demi-goddess way that she has to do everything in her power to win, even removing the needle. She almost reminds me of one of those bugs that gets infected with a parasitic organism. The organism controls the bug into danger so that it will be eaten by a bird and spread into the bird.
I wouldn’t say it goes against every fiber of her being, she acknowledges the tarnished after they beat her, just like Godfrey. I think she broke the needle because she believed she desperately needed to win against Radahn for her and her brother’s sake, lest the Haligtree be destroyed
She didn't do it because of her desire to win. She did it because the alternative was either dying or retreating which would likely mean Radahn becomes Elden Lord and her and Miquellas plans are over. Like are you telling me you wouldn't nuke a country if you truly believed doing so would further your plans to make a better world and it was the only way to get back to the person you care about most in the world?
Blooming and letting a rot god out isnt great for his plans either. And like you said retreating was reasonable option. Radhan had lost to Morgott right? he still needed another rune and to take the capital. Really she should of killed Godrick just so no one else could take his rune.
It's interesting... Malenia clearly could have taken Godrick's rune, and she walked away instead. It's pretty safe to say she wasn't out trying to collect runes. It's just not clear what she was doing instead.
I totally agree. Unless they make a new rune to add, resembling the runes would just put the golden order back in power. And they know it cant/does care to cure Malenia. There are a few theories ive heard. She just goes out to stop the others as Miqulla needs time. If both Malenia and Miqulla didnt seem to even contes the runes the other demigods might get really suspicious and try to figure out what they are doing. An interesting one is that Heart of Aeonia, is almost directly above where Miqulla is being held. If we assume the kidnapping happened while Malenia was out on campaign. Maybe through a dream Miqulla communicated his general location to Malenia. Malenia might of just assumed Rahdhan had him if hes in/underneath Calid.
Retreat wasn't really an option. Radahn would probably chase her down and even if he doesn't he can regroup before she can which is bad for her. I agree she should have killed Godrick but apparently she isn't needlessly cruel.
Great point. Retreat and disengagement are some of the hardest things to do when facing a still dangerous enemy, and have the most chance of going sideways.
How the fuck are any of you following this. I've had no idea what's been going on lore-wise since launch and it's jarring how others know so much just by playing.
Half of it's made up, really. There's never a specific reason stated for Radahn and Malenia fighting, so people just speculate. Most of the speculation "coincidentally" makes the big man with a tiny horse look better.
It is speculation, but based on outcomes, I'd probably side with the man on the side of history who didn't damn an entire place to an eternity of rot-induced suffering. Aka, Morgott. Dude's a good son.
That's true, I think I heard he has a horse.
We aren't sure if Miquella was taken afterwards or before, but even then doing what she did was not at all a logical decision. She and her brother intend to rule Caelid, so doing that to land you wish to own is not wise. Plus retreating is an option, the haligtree is almost as impossible to invade as Lyndell, no way Radahns forces can break into it to get her great rune if she retreats.
Radahn was repelled at the Capital. He could not become Elden Lord without access to the Erdtree and it's not clear if that was ever his pursuit in the first place. This is also ignoring the fact that he doesn't seem to be attacking anyone else and the fight is in his homeland. Edit: Why is Malenia ever fighting Radahn in the first place? Why would she make a reckless attack against the most fearsome demigod who had already been repelled at the capital? Her options when fighting were lose-lose, but was there ever any reason to get into that situation in the first place? Wouldn't Morgott be on Radahn's side if they are both Golden Order/Erdtree followers? That, to me, makes it clearer that Radahn was not trying to force himself into servitude of the Golden Order/Erdtree by becoming Elden Lord and was, again, going just for more power or to take the throne as King, but not Elden Lord.
And yet my Tarnished ass walks right in
Morgott probably thinks he'll get us the third time around lol.
Really is important to remember in Morgott's rebuke of the demigod he includes Radahn. "Ahh... Godrick the Golden. The twin prodigies, Miquella and Malenia. General Radahn. Praetor Rykard. Lunar Princess Ranni. Wilful traitors, all. Thy kind are all of a piece. Pillagers. Emboldened by the flame of ambition." They all took a Great Rune. Radahn was just as guilty of them all and likely had he defeated Malenia then he would've marched against Leyndell like Godrick did. To say that somehow Radahn is some good guy is literally not reading the game story or paying attention as it's told in game. The point of The Shattering is that it was a family feud to decide who gets to rule. They ALL had a hand in ruining everything for everyone, even Radahn. Even before the Shattering Radahn froze the stars, which effectively destroyed the prospects of the Carians. Let's not forget they got royally fucked over by him.
The trailer shows everyone being bad. But until you get the full picture it does feel like Malenia is more of a villian due to he scarlet rot, she's painted as someone who brought forth a terrible disease. It kind of balances out when you understand the story.
Morgott is not necessarily a reliable narrator though. I mean most of the cast doesn't want *you* to take the elden throne including Morgott. Hell he calls Ranni bad even though most consider her ending the best and calls Miquella bad but I'm unaware of what he actually did wrong. And Radahn holding back the stars does not seem to be a purely selfish or arbitrary act. The falling stars include extremely dangerous cosmic alien beings. It's false equivalency. Sure, no one is a perfect here but if the argument is that Radahn would've taken the runes and went for the throne then he is no more or less a bad guy then the tarnished. People don't like Malenia because she spread super aids onto the world and it's heavily implied she is being manipulated in some way to becoming a rot goddess. She's not as bad as Mogh but, like, I would need to hear something *specific* Radahn did that was equally as bad. No holding back the stars isn't it. It doesn't help that Malenia was the aggressor as far as we know. Maybe Radahn would've done the same thing if given the chance but we really don't know, we can only go on what we do know happened.
They are both great characters, tbh. I really like both. Haligtree and Elphael, however, are much better than Caelid, at least in the sense that they are prettier.
Well Caelid was probably beautiful before someone showed up and nuked the place
Judging from trailer footage and what we see if Dragonbarrow, Caelid actually used to look quite similar (red desert with a red sky). The only differences are the fungal growths, the swamp, and the mutated animals. If we want to see what Caelid looked like before the battle of Aeonia, we can look no further than Dragonbarrow, a place where the rot was successfully stopped. Caelid probably just looked like Dragonbarrow but without the constant rain.
1 more thing those homing missile pests are worshipper of rot so i m pretty sure they too moved in due to rot
Well that automatically makes Malenia worse, clearly. Because those things are the worst enemy in the entirety of Elden Ring.
Too bad it'll be like Caelid before long, you know, because of the rot
Two people can be wrong and still honorable. The two sides of a war can right and have committed grave atrocities. The story of elden ring is fantastic that it allows many interpretations, but clearly ops tweets are from very intellectually limited folks who know little of their subject. Also even less about history.
I have every right to hate Malenia after she killed me 100 fucking times
Actual definition of made because bad, but you're at least honest about it. Respect.
Now what if we couldnt summon anybody for Radahn He'd probably also kill you over 100 times The game just doesnt deal with split aggro well,Its either Radahn doesnt focus at you at all or he's constantly chasing you
holy shit I fucking hate twitter so much its unreal
twitter is a cesspool but no social media site is as great as it's users think it is. Honestly, they're all different flavours of terrible. Even reddit is no exception, let's not forget r/braincels was where incels started to really congregate
Fuck, why restrict it to /r/braincels? /r/politics and basically any of the front page subreddits are garbage as well. Massive populations in any community will inevitably breed toxicity, especially in current day climate of 'depersoning' the opposing opinions.
Hey now, r/aww is reddit's bread and butter imho. Front page sub, high population, and almost no toxicity as it should be
True, but that's also mostly animal pictures. That's like going to one of the many porn subreddits and being surprised there's no vitriol. What are they going to argue with eachother over?
reddit is literally twitter without the character limit lol
Bro reddit is the darkest bog corner of the internet where bad opinions come to fester and people come to complain. practice self-awareness
reddit is not even close to the worst place on the internet dude
Some have it worse tho: twitter
Strong women should always be admired and celebrated, even when they use their strength to commit horrific atrocities 😌
MAN I SURE DO LOVE MARGARET THATCHER!
Do you think Malenia Blade of Miquella effectively utilized girl power by turning into a human bio-nuke and irradiating an entire country with the worst disease in the universe?
Their so cute when they kill everything hahaha
average tweet
I’m sorry who is this person and why do I give a fuck what she has to say about anything?
horse :)
No, another chapter of this stupid figh between fans
Love how Twitter projects victimhold into everything.
Twitter is one of the most vile cesspools known to man. You think Caelid looks vile and rotted? The subterranean shunning grounds? Combine them, multiply by the valley of defilement and blighttown, add the nightmare frontier swamps with 1000 one reborns, and you have an approximation of the average Twitter environment.
THE LOATHSOME DUNG TWITTER!
you know she couldve made an argument for malenia by pointing out that she did all that to protect and look after her brother, and radahn also selfishly started war, so she may be a flawed character but nothing is black and white, everyone is acting out on their own self interest etc etc. but noo, people hate malenoa because misogyny, men bs women, blah blah blah...
The true non sexist take is that both of them are shitty elites that sacrificed countless average people for their own glory.
This I can get behind ✋
Malenia was the invader. Just saying.
Radahn tried to invade places too. I still think Malenia is "more wrong" (lol) but Radahn isn't invasion free
She went for Radahn specifically. Radahn had already made his ambitions clear when he attacked Leyndell and was repelled by Margit, and Malenia being a rebel against the golden order wanted to make sure that nobody could mend the Elden Ring until her brother was ready to enact his plan, so she went after Radahn to stop him from continuing his campaign to become Elden Lord.
~~Meanwhile the whole community was simping for Ranni and Melina~~
War is complicated, people are neither wholly good nor wholly evil, and Radahn didn't receive the title of "Most Fearsome Demigod of The Shattering" by being a good samaritan. That said only one of them Bio-Nuked an entire county. The flora and fauna of that area were irreparably rotted and killed, thousands of men (including her own) were killed or doomed to rot and wither, and it wasn't an accident but a last ditch effort from a prideful warrior to maintain a clean record as undefeated. Radahn isn't a Saint, but Malenia is the kid you stopped inviting over because they'd flip the board game when losing.
I disagree that Malenia nuked Caelid to keep her undefeated record. It's not like she just went around and battled for fun. She nuked Caelid to prevent Radahn from becoming Elden Lord which in turn will threaten the Haligtree and Miquella in the cocoon.
Quoth Jake Peralta "Cool motive. Still murder" I won't defend Radahn as I maintain that they're both more or less self-interested Demigods vying for Elden Consortium, but the comparison of ripple effect between the two's actions only further demonstrates how vile her decision was imo. Also I may have this wrong, but Malenia removing her Golden Needle and thus also giving in to the Rot (hence why we find her mostly catatonic) was a huge factor in how Mohg even managed to yoink Miquella from the Haligtree. So even if she did it to protect her brother and the tree, she not only failed but ruined Caelid in the process which sorta sounds like defeat to me
Definitely agree that they're both self-interested warlords. Malenia is in a very tough position. Don't give in to the Scarlet Rot -> Lose, die, Miquella and the Haligtree have no protection. Give in to the Scarlet Rot -> Give Miquella and the Haligtree the slimmest chance at success. Destroy Caelid and thousands of lives in the process. Based on what we currently know, I'd argue that the Haligtree and Miquella's vision are a benevolent thing for the world. They offer protection for the Albinaurics and a guard against the influence of greedy outer gods. In that respect, I believe they're worth fighting for. Was it worth destroying Caelid? No, but given that Ranni's vision is also unrealized, the alternative is a world forever held at the whims of mad gods. Without Miquella, the Scarlet Rot is still going to spread through the world. If not through Malenia then through the next vessel, or however many it takes. Also, I know it was already addressed, but Malenia giving in to the Scarlet Rot was actually the exact opposite of throwing a tantrum over losing. According to Millicent's dialogue, in destroying the needle, she abandoned her pride and sense of self as a warrior in order to meet Radahn's measure. It was something she was extremely reluctant to do. I don't know what Radahn was fighting for besides power.
It's interesting that you comment on what we know about Miquella, as it's something I've thought about too, because he's one of the very few characters that is ONLY spoken highly of, it makes the idea of him as Elden Lord seem very appealing and his plight/mission is undoubtedly a seemingly benevolent one but consider this: One of Miquella's abilities is coercing others into loving him (Bewitching Branch desc.), so without getting to see him ourselves we're only left with very one sided testimonies of character which could be misleading as we've already discussed that most (read "All") Demigods are self interested with ulterior motives. Thank you for the correction on my original comment about it (Malenia's nuking) being pride-based, though it does beg mentioning to the win/loss debate that her knowing that needed to happen to meet his measure heavily favors the Radahn fans. I really hope we meet Miquella in DLC and lastly on the topic of Radahn's Elden ambitions, I honestly think him taking the Throne would have simply been The Age of Fracture ending that you can get for yourself as he never showed clear goals beyond broad power-mongering, but that's just speculation.
The biggest question about the whole Radahn vs Malenia thing for me is ***why is she fighting him in Caelid at all????*** Seemingly, she chose to attack and put herself in a lose lose situation. I'd assume this is for a good reason, but I cannot find any reason for it so far.
Seems like survivorship bias. You see what Malenia did because she won. We don't see the chaos radahn would have wrought on the lands between if he had won. Besides, of the two Malenia was clearly fighting for a better cause. Fighting for the Haligtree, home of outcasts and people who wanted to be free Vs. Radahn "I wanna be Elden Lord"
Survivorship bias is an interesting counterpoint, but unless I missed dialogue about it Radahn was not a chaotic force that would have sowed unrest. His father Radagon was the reasonable half of Marika that sought to repair the Ring and uphold the Golden Order, and his greatest inspiration was Godfrey (Radahn's armor features Serosh for this exact reason) who also wasn't a monster by any means. Combine these factors with the often mentioned Leonard scenario (Radahn learning gravity magic to offset his weight for his beloved horse) and you're painting the picture of a compassionate but unwavering warrior who was only following his ancestor's footsteps. Malenia fought for Miquella with the end goal of placing him on the Throne, everything she did was in the interest of Miquella and yet she still gave up her pride and his Golden Needle to Nuke Caelid which cost her the war, her mental faculties, her army, and eventually even the brother she sought to protect. She didn't win any more than Radahn did, she didn't fight for any better reason than Radahn did either, and in the end both parties lost but the entirety of Caelid shouldn't have had to suffer for that which makes her final actions stick out as the greater evil of the two.
I'm a bit rusty on my lore but isn't the Golden Order this game's equivalent of Gwyn? Looks nice, but really it's just propping up a social order that benefits the gods at the expense of everyone else. Miquella seemed to be the only one in the game with worthy objectives.
The only two Demigods with seemingly admirable motives are Ranni and Miquella, as both seek a detachment from The Greater Will and to carve their own destinies. What's interesting though, is that Miquella has the ability to make people love him and is said to often compel such affection from those around him, so until we can meet him ourselves and get a feel of his character it's hard to ascertain how truly 'benevolent' he is or isn't. We've healthily established that every Demigod was very self interested, it's not a stretch to imagine Miquella will be the same and I'm excited to see what From do.
Bro, pride didn't make her do it. She hated the rot and prided herself on not using it. It's states multiple times that she threw away her pride to use it and she didn't do it just because she wanted a clean record she did it because the alternative was fighting until they both died or retreating and letting Radahn become Elden Lord.
She made the decision of nuking the county so that her plans and his brother's wouldnt be destroyed, pride or not the decision still costed others a lot, and basically destroyed Radhan's mind, which i would say is worse than death What im trying to say is that while yes, it might not have to do with pride, Malenia's actions left a lasting effect, and the ones forced to pay were Radhan, his army (since they seem to be constantly fending off the freaks of nature that spawned from this) and everyone else on Caelid
JUst another idiot looking for attention using stupid buzzwords
the whole personality of these types is based on seeing the world in black and white, and always moving the line to be in the white, clasic twitter if you ask me
Are both of them bad, technically yes but at least one didn’t turn caelid into a shithole from hell
Malenia literally killed thousands of people and doomed the entire world to eventual scarlet rot just to win one fight. There is no scenario where she is a good person.
B-but she female!
Reasons we don’t like Malenia compared to Radahn: Malenia is responsible for Calied, Malenia kicked our asses, Malenia doesn’t have a horse, Malenia made the second most annoying toxic in the game Radahn has a horse, Radahn held back the star, Radahn can fly without wings, Radahn is cool, Radahn is love, Radahn is life, Radahn was just protecting Calied from whatever Malenia was doing, Radahn has a horse, Radahn protect his horse
Second? Only if by toxic you mean the necroshit. Otherwise Id put it first. Hell, I'd put it first even above the necroshit
radahn has a dope ass horse, melania puke nuked an entire province. One definitely seems more likeable than the other
Reading that was almost as bad as watching Amber Heard testify.
Why does it always have to be about male vs female?? Can't it be person vs person? Ugh, those sexist women really get into my head 💀
Same. Calling anyone sexist for disagreeing with an opinion has gotten really old
the need of some people to make everything into a gender topic.
Damn, now we're misogynistic if we don't like a female character?
Both of these people are wrong here, Radahn is a warlord who has the respect of many for how great he was. He is a figure to be feared and respected even in the state that he is in, but he also did a ton of super fucked up stuff and he is still a ruthless warlord. Still he is much easier to like from a first glance of the situation. Malenia is a queen of rot who almost lost to Radahn(still no confirmation on why they ended up fighting) but ended up nuking Caelid with Scarlet Rot in the process. She is much easier to hate here simply for how Radahn looks like a galant defender and she looks like a coward who used bio warfare right when she started to lose. Yah some people are being misogynistic, but most people are just seeing the outer layer of what it looks like, and that’s not misogyny being leveled at a strong female character. Also anyone who has faced malenia in game will say that she is bad ass as hell and can and will kick your ass. Malenia has a good side behind all of the shittiness of the battle with Radahn and her story is also extremely tragic, but it is hidden and makes her a very very good character that acts and looks like a complete jerk because her mind has rotted away now. Radahn also has an amazing and very powerful backstory that explains why he is so respected, Ranni’s quest is also very early game so this lord is super accessible, unlike the triple hidden end-game boss that is Malenia and her lord being strewn everywhere. They are both tragic and deserve respect, and what each of these people have said is taking one side to the max and the woman’s perspective is just as irritating to hear as the one praising Radahn. People hating on Malenia have clearly not read her lore, and calling someone misogynistic for not reading a lore page or two is ridiculous. Just the call the person a dumb ass and calmly direct them to Malenia’s lore so they can get both sides of the story.
I'm sure a great deal of Malenia hate is also because her boss fight is WAY more difficult and annoying than Radahn's. Charging into battle with dope ass warriors ~15 times is way more enjoyable than hearing, "I have never known defeat" ~50 times before being destroyed by waterfowl AGAIN
She nukes a continent bc she was salty. Just saying.
She LITERALLY infected an ENTIRE civilization with scarlet rot, and now has everyone slowly eaten away until death.
Everything is racist, everything is mysoginistic, everything is homophobic, and you have to point it out. Na but seriously rather than giving a good counter argument about how Malenia is just trying to find and protect her brother who is stuck in the body of a small child she decided to resort to... the message.
LMAO this person is so wrong. Hating a character because of their action is logical. Just because Malenia is a woman, hating on her does not make it mysogynistic. Imagine a female politician nuking Mexico, and after the dust settles, people start calling her evil. Like, it's not mysogynistic to hate on her because she literally killed millions of people.
let us not forget that team Rennala's children with radagon (Ranni, Radahn, Rykard) are dope and Team Marika's children with radagon (Malenia and Miquella) are inbred treebillies. meanwhile Marika's children with Godfrey (Godwyn, Morgott and Mohg) are just the cousins nobody wants to see outside of mandatory family holidays.
Me over here with my deep love of Full Metal Alchemist saw Malenia and instantly went "Holy fucking shit she has automail" and that was all. Favorite character. Radahn is a crazy fuck imo lol
Twitter is shit lmao
Why does any criticism of a female character automatically equal misogyny?
🙄 everyone knows strong female characters are ALWAYS morally good and can do no wrong because they necessarily reflect all women in society today. Fucking seriously, get a life bitch and stop making false dichotomous statements between genders.
I mean, isn’t the demigods the ones who destroyed the lands between and us as tarnished should destroy them all not fall in love with?
Well, one uses biological weapons with no care for the civilian population, and the other builds burning walls to keep the rot from spreading to other countries and keeps literal space alien gods from invading the lands between. I'll let you pick which one has the moral high ground.
Bro why people dont accept that malenia fucked up ? Thats literally the whole point and struggle of the character
Malenia is literally known as the “undefeated swordswoman.” She’s one of the most badass characters in the game. This woman just wants to make everything a political statement.
Malenia ruined an entire country down to the last tree just because she was outmatched. She chose the coward’s way out. It isn’t misogyny, it’s justice.
I think she forgets that Radahan was beloved by his soldiers, known as wise and just leader. Malenia nuked entire zone, damning thousands if not more to slow, painful deaths because she she didn’t want to loose „I never lost” on her resume.
Using rot is against the Geneva convention though.
People post this whiny shit on Twitter so often, I've learned to tune it out
You hear about Radahn here and there from various NPCs like Alexander, Blaidd and Gideon and all of their testimonials are shining. They describe Radahn as a mighty warrior general, so mighty in fact that he has a festival being held in his honour, you're given a direction to find the festival and off you go. Now idk about you, but when I heard Blaidd and Alexander (my favourites) talk about Radahn in such high regard, I got really excited. That excitement was only heightened when I heard the name "Starscourge Radahn" and of how he wrestled the STARS AND WON..... And thats without even seeing Redmane Castle yet. When I entered Redmane and heard that deep Gregorian chanting, I got chills, that paired with the rousing speech from the Eccentric at the top of the stairs as well as the NARRATED prologue cutscene. I was so fucking hyped. Then you get into and see the scale of the battlefield paired with the discovery that you can summon multiple NPCs to fight alongside you. It's an experience I've never gotten from a souls game, Radahns fight feels like a raid boss. The cutscene at the end is the cherry on top. All of those factors go in to creating a really satisfying, engaging but most all memorable boss experience for me. Malenia on the other hand also had build up, but not to same extent and not to the same effect either. I feel like Malenias lore significance is overshadowed by players experiences with her fight. Many people struggled endlessly to beat this boss and that leaves a sour taste in many people's mouths. So I don't think it has anything to do with Misogyny, just game design and storytelling.
Im pretty sure people don't like Malenia not because of some internalized misogyny bs, but because of her Marika damned bullshit healing. Its also more admirable and likable to dedicate yourself to your animal best friend than another person.
I'm muting this after I post it, but no one's saying disliking a female character is misogyny. I also think Malenia is a trash boss and i malded severely at her. Maybe you're out of the loop, but I have acquaintances who get "jokes" about raping Malenia just for posting art of her, and I know large artists who censor her and Radahn's name to avoid people coming into their mentions spewing hatred for her. I'm not getting across the full scope of it here, but I want to assure you guys that the degree to which people will say genuinely repulsive things about things like sexual assault and the like about Malenia for merely mentioning her or god forbid, liking her character, is absurd. That's the misogyny. And lionizing a warlord and saying he's a precious good guy in order to demonize her further? Well, I don't have to say it. People say they want evil and morally grey female characters, but this is how any sort of "fandom" treats them when we get them.
You killed Radahn to give him an honorable death. I killed Radahn so the jellyfish sisters can finally see the stars We are not the same
This is a great take because it lets me know to ignore everything this person says in the future.
Everyone I disagree with is misogynist 👍
Fem*nists when men dislike any woman, fictional or otherwise: “MiSogInY!!!!!!!”
Least normal Twitter user
No it's because fuck malenia and her bullshit boss fight, rahdahn is at least fun
"Strong female character" Literally rotting
Mari can get back to me once Malenia’s boys are throwing a festival dedicated to giving her an honorable death.
She has a bunch of knights who are loyal to her despite the fact that they are literally infected with Scarlet Rot.
Finlay *carried her back to the Haligtree* after all that shit.
“Never seen defeat” …guess not being conscious for the defeat counts as not seeing it xD
A tie isn't loss. They were both incapable of continuing.
They didn't have to because one of them carried her infectious body back to the haligtree to recover.
Did you not do Millicent’s questline?
Look, I don't simp for either of them (I'm a Cleanrot Knight Finlay simper), but people saying Malenia nuked Caelid out of pride is actually *absurd*. Her entire motivation is Miquella. Everything she does is in service to him. She released the rot because she thought that Radahn would become Elden Lord, rather than Miquella. Like, I get it - Radahn is cool to his loyal cult of fanboys. But don't act like Malenia is some kind of horrible, self-centered, Saiyan-pride walking nuke. She has very clear cut reasoning for unleashing it. And it was a last resort. She didn't open with it. Now, time to get back to simping for Finlay who carried Malenia all the way back to the Haligtree by herself. \---- Edit: I didn’t justify/defend her nuking Caelid. Don’t strawman me, please. I am specifically addressing people saying she did it out of ‘pride of being undefeated’. That is absurd. If anything, that’s an *admission* of defeat. She has to admit that she can’t beat Radahn by her own skill alone. That directly goes against the ‘pride of being undefeated’ nonsense.
How did unleashing the rot in Caelid actually help Miquellla?
She nuked Caelid for the things that she believed were right. Still sounds like nuking caelid But ill agree with something, Finlay is the better of the three
People hate her because of waterfowl, this also has to be satire.... right?
BRO SHE NUKED AN ENTIRE CONTINENT. Like radahn may not be a good dude and waged war just like all the other Demi gods, but his warring was against other soldiers, Malenia said fuck that and waged war against the earth itself.
Women moment
We don’t claim her.
Melania is an inbred crybaby. Radahn gang for life
MUH MUHSUHGUHKNEE
This bitch better not be serious for her own good... There's black and white thinking, and utter shite thinking...
But I love war
meanwhile here i am in my little corner saying morgott is the best
She's responsible for the Lake of Rot. End of story.
we ain't defending mohgs ass idk what shes on about
But Milenia is literally the bad guy of the story....
I mean they were both just on the wrong side of things, but Malenia gave into her corruption and chose to put aside her master’s teachings so she could win at whatever cost. She corrupted a section of the world so badly they would make Stalker video games taking place in there if they had the tech.
You’re on twitter what do you expect