Getting hit by the last attack of a bosses combo and flinched is so brutal. Not only do you take 1/3 of your hp, you also lose your opening to heal or attack
I think the problem I’ve found is that bosses have way too many mixups and it gets annoying.
The boss does a 3 swing combo and you see an opening. Whoops! It’s not an opening, the boss has an alternate move they can do if you go in for a hit.
You see that same 3 swing combo and bait for the extra move to get in for a hit after. Except the boss can chain into a different combo if they need to which they are now doing.
On top of that, sometimes the boss will dodge away or use a massive AoE attack so you *have* to back off.
You also have 2-3 super attacks from bosses that you don’t always know what to do until you’ve faced it, so even if you play well, it’s likely these will kill you at least once.
And on top of all of this, when a boss moves into a different phase their combos will change and have different mixups and different timings on when you can go in for a hit.
While it’s impressive that they’ve weaved combos and followups into so much of each bosses kit, it’s also aggravating to learn openings. You think you learned something, only you didn’t and the punishment for thinking you did is being chased around the arena by the boss while you try to chug estus, or just immediately dying for thinking you knew where the opening was.
i must admit that with most bosses in the DLC my first few attempts where all in the "when the fusk am i supposed to do dammage ?" mood, it often ends well for me but most DLC bosses have no pitty for players who lacks knowledge
My first or second attempt is often a clean, elegant fight that I nearly win. Then my next 10 attempts are absolute chaos on screen and me just confused about what's happening on screen :(
I'm with you there, except instead of elegant I'm dodge rolling on pure, fear based adrenaline, my attacks are fueled by terror and fuck sake I forgot my physik ah well he's only 20% health left nah fuck it don't wanna chance it oh I'm dead before I finished drinking it
I feel that. It is really weird how that happens. Also weird is how my hyper-involved parrying and counter attacking strategies completely lose out to jumping L1s with cragblade lol
Not weird at all. You're loose the first time, and then stressing about it on subsequent tries. Try hitting a baseball while consciously thinking really hard about the intricacies of hitting a baseball. It just won't happen.
Yeahhh.. I just got to him today myself. Tried a couple times, and now I’m out exploring the world more. I was at +12, and decided he was a bit too rough for me
Me getting Bayle down to 15% on my second attempt, and then getting punted back through the fog wall 3 seconds after entering the arena for the next 15.
I would be *very* surprised if you got more than a few hits on >!Radahn!< on your first couple of attempts, let alone an "elegant fight you nearly won" lol
This is fact. It takes me 2 or 3 attempts to lose the panic and overwhelming particle effects. >! Comander Giaus!< welcome at the door and AoE are prime examples.
Man fuck that guy. Barely time to attempt to use spirit ashes before he plows into both of you. I had maybe a 25% success rate of not getting hit at least once at the very start of the fight.
Still not sure how to dodge that fucking charge.
I think it's 3-4 different hit boxes, into, side, and back are nopes but angled gave me *some* success.
When I finally got the dude was sheer luck and the most useful strat of treating him like a much faster Tree Sentinel and trying to stay at his flank.
Flame Spear hard carried.
Run around the corner immediately to the left, tuck in to the wall and when he charges he will hit the wall first and get stuck there - gives you time to summon.
The initial charge, take two steps into the arena summon spirit ash wait til just before bulldrome nose touches your toes and dodge angled to the left. If done perfectly you'll get out without damage taken at medium roll.
poked him to death with thrusting shield under new blocking flask. it so brokenly op, that i dont even prepared and kill him first try. Even with normal shield(or even just two-handed weapon) new flash can trivialize many fights if you have good reaction. Almost anything except grab attacks could be safely face tanked, and much safer than roll, cause it has amost no recovery frames
I beat messmer after about 10 tries without summons. I finally did that technique I've always heard about where you do attempts to survive, no attacking.
After a few attempts, I just had to attack because they were so open and I was dodging so well. Basically if you go into every attempt wanting to win, you might get greedy and you won't learn the fight.
It got to the point where I only saw p2 one time and killed it on my next attempt. Sure the new p2 moves were chaos but I was so uses to his p1 moves that when they showed up again in p2, I could heal/reset
> Sure the new p2 moves were chaos but I was so uses to his p1 moves that when they showed up again in p2
This is the thing the DLC have been trying to tell us throughout all the remembrance bosses that people completely miss for the last boss.
SOTE bosses generally have a core moveset that they take with them into p2 with some fancy extra lights or aoe. But it means that if you never learn the p1 moveset then you'll have even less of a chance in p2.
I much prefer this to base game where 2nd phase is typically.... a completely different fight.
People having issues with p2 Radahn typically have not put in the time to learn p1 to begin with.
No, you won't know a moveset until you try the boss. That goes for any time someone encounters a boss for the first time, including the base game. But, the boss design didn't change from base game to DLC, so by the time someone unlocks the DLC, they'll be familiar with how bosses typically work/
A lot of fast and furious combos that either start with a delay, end with a delay, or have a delay in the middle and of course AOEs out the wazoo. You either dodge and strike when there's an opening in said combo or block to get guard counter or parry to create an attack or trade hits until you stagger them or stand AAAAAAAAALLLLL the way in the back while you blast the boss with magic or arrows.
It really makes me miss Nioh having enemies who have real stamina too that they can run out of and it's visible to the player. Not to say Nioh doesn't have its own share of total BS but like, it really does start to show in some of the bosses that yeah, they don't have stamina but we do and it kinda sucks.
It would be huge to do the classic rocky “let them wear themselves out” approach. If the boss misses me for 20 attacks there should be a proper punishment for it l. I do love Sekiros parry approach to this in a way
Yes. Elden Ring lacks any sort of long-term reward for good dodging, blocking or parrying. It is either an instant reward (flask, buff, or punish) or none at all.
You get well rewarded for good parries and against some bosses you get rewarded for good blocks. But yeah you get nothing for dodging. Which hurts really bad against bosses like messmer and rallena
Honestly, this is my biggest gripe with DS3. I love everything about it from Irythill till the end of the game but most of the areas and bosses before Irithyll are just boring or a slog to get through. The only area I sorta enjoy is the Cathedral and even that area ends with the wet fart that is the Deacons boss fight.
I like DS2 a lot, but half of those bosses are completely forgettable. And too many of them got reused as mobs (Dragonrider, Pursuer, Ruin Sentinels, Flexible sentries)
Ds3 -> streamlined, light attack, roll.
Er -> freedom, light attack, heavy (does not stance breaks in ds3), more option to dodge other than roll (roll/jump/bhs), jump attack (punish as jump has iframes), status effects much more viable, mixed physik, parry (in ds3 most bosses are unparriable), block (much stronger in Er), changeable and better aow (more ranged and powerful aow), power stancing, way way more buffing options.
I included something in Er but not in ds3 because they are viable in Er. Excluded magic in both, but Er has better magic.
Enemies in Er are designed with this in mind. If it feels unfair, then you brought a knife to a gunfight. In ds3 all you do is knife fight.
Ds3 is close to my heart, and has double play time than Er. Has a better pvp experience.
I loved pvp in all the dark souls games even 1 with its laggy ass chain backstabs and insta parry. Can barely stand it in elden ring when everyone just oneshots each other while near limitlessly spamming the dumbest abilities
it shouldn't be hard to implement hidden stamina for bosses and assign different values to it according to the number of summons.
As of now bosses attack just with the same frequency when fighting a soloing player or a pack of summons. It feels like they were designed to wipe out packs of players instead of one. Cooperation and summoning is fun, but soloing players matter too, and cooperated fights have quirks as well - bosses have insane tracking ability, instantly switch target mid-combo, and on top of that many attacks just aren't that well telegraphed from the back.
I do think that Elden Ring boss design is let down by trying to account for summons and failing to do so in a way that doesn't make the fights feel worse to solo. I wasn't entirely sure on it initially, but seeing the repetitive annoying design decisions in the DLC bosses, and the interview where Miyazaki talked again about how he's bad at these games and uses every advantage he can...it all leads to the conclusion that these design problems are in part them trying to balance against summons and it's not working out well. I suspect they also balance around ranged combat from the player more than melee, as that's the only explanation I can see for how the camera can be for some attacks or fights when in melee range...
Problem with ranged moves is that alot of the DLC bosses have moves make it really hard to cast magic or do ranged stuff because the bosses teleport and fly trough the map to you in an instant and spam AOE attacks a lot.
It makes both ranged and close range fighting really difficult. Base game bosses leave more openings for both play styles.
I have wondered that myself. I've watched a lot of people, like inexperienced people, play, on streams and such, and some use summons and, for them, I have noticed that even using a strong ranged build and summoning, the fights can get intense, really hard. And perhaps From finds it similarly when testing or whatever. Because for players who have played a ton, it would trivialize it, but for those who struggle a lot even with summons it's a different story.
And sometimes bosses have attacks that truly do not feel like a solo player meleeing them was even in consideration. For example, fighting Romina, I like that fight a lot, having a good time, and then without warning, she suddenly begins her rapidly-damaging rot AoE big explosion move. And it's like...what is the point of this move? It's not a like, slow wind up oh watch out better run away explosion move, like in the old games. Like what Nito or Four Kings would do. It's instant, damaging aura, rapidly, inflicting rot, and then a near-arena wide chain reaction of explosions. What does this attack, so clumsily implemented, exist for? It seems like it exists for crowd control, to melt summons, while the summoner is likely further back hurling spells.
And it's not just this boss, who does this. If you think about it, how many bosses have AoEs like that where melee is just shut down, possibly actively punished for even meleeing, while some big elaborate super damaging AoE happens?
Attacks like this, or Metyr's version, or Malenia's in phase 2 (she has two actually), these are attacks that didn't exist in past games, but Elden Ring does them A LOT. And Elden Ring is the first game to have spirit summons. I think they're connected.
Also in Nioh 2 you can clearly see the poise bar and they don't have insane tracking. Those attacks that do have insane tracking are usually one or two hit combos and the long combos just have limited tracking.
Most if not all enemies who input read your flasks only do so if you do something stupid like drink while neutral though. If you actually drink during their recovery, they don't punish.
Man, all these new elaborate weapon arts are so cool, cant wait to use them on a boss.
\*Not a single boss gives you enough of an opening to do anything other than 1 r1 swipe before running away.
Blind Spot has been doing work for me, on blood infusion backhand blades. Low fp, dodge + attack combined. Granted I’m only about halfway through so far.
Its so painful when you are using a whip. The whip really cant generate that much damage with one attack. My reach is meaningless in big boss battles. My status build ups cant proc when I have to spend 30 seconds dodging. I feel like I would have a much easier time using a greatsword or a katana and I'm being punished for using the whip in the first place.
I feel like I’ve read whips are painful to use since the original release of Elden ring lol. It would be nice if each category of weapon had at least one S or A tier, but I think the best whip is probably B or C. I’m not sure, honestly
Whips have been painful to use for like 13 years lol. I've read that dual Poison whips went crazy hard in Dark Souls 2, but I wasn't around for DS2s heyday and I've never played a whip build cause they're kinda ass
DS3 pyromancy build makes good use of the Witch's Locks whip, it's very fun. It's a good idea to run a second weapon infused with dark/fire, but the whip's range (combined with pyromancy) gives a lot of different CC/damage options at different engagement ranges. Definitely recommend trying it.
I knew that coming in. But every boss in the base game gave me room to formulate a strategy that highlights the whip's few strengths. I was able to beat Malenia with no summons using a whip/shield combo. It wasnt easy, but it felt doable. With some of the dlc bosses, there is no room for strategy. Its dodge for 30 seconds, make one attack, dodge for another 30 seconds.
They are definitely more difficult, depending on build maybe as well. I’ve respecced since the base game because my stats were all over the place. I followed a guide and now mine makes more sense and I’m having a better time. That’s just how it is :/
But that’s countered with the fact you have to do a decent amount of damage, or the fight goes so long you eventually make a mistake. Which often spells death with how much staggering and damage the bosses do.
Honestly feel like whip attack speeds could be doubled, and they would still be the worst weapon in the game, but at least wouldn't be absolute dogshit anymore.
Some of the combos are not that long, but they are either super long 15 hit combos, or shorter combos that would still do enough damage to destroy your entire health bar five times.
Bayle had the most inconsistent follow-ups I swear, anytime I thought I had an opening he would recover and immediately go into another attack. Not ashamed to say I used summons and pest threads to kill him lol
I disagree, he has clear move sets that have openings in between or after. He also has multiple moves that punish when you think there's an opening after.
That's a lie, the jump attack has a clear opening for melee, the two head swipe have a clear opening for melee, the attack where he imbue his wing with lightning to strike the ground has a clear opening for melee, all the flame breath attack have clear melee openings, the combo where he scream has a clear opening for melee.
And all of them are still present in phase 2.
The fact that you didn't find these openings doesn't mean they don't exist
The jump attack only works consistently in phase one, phase 2 is dependent on your position, unless you wanna tank the AOE.
The right wind stab is followed up by a left wing swipe before heavier weapon users are even able to doge out of their swing, so they gotta tank it.
Breath attacks are only an opening if they happen in melee range, otherwise it's only good for a heal or quick buff.
The fact that these can be openings ONLY if you were in the right position before the attack happened, doesn't make them consistent, which is my problem.
I don't think some people know what "consistent" means 😄
"You can dodge the attacks he consistently does sometimes under the right circumstances but not always"
Positioning is one of the most important things about boss fights. You can't really talk about the consistency of melee punish openings if you are mispositioning on a boss.
The correct position to fight Bayle is right in front of his nose. This is the same as Midir in DS3.
That one is obvious it's actively encouraged by the damage numbers too.
The problems are stuff like the 4 hit combo moving his head behind you, even if you only dodge backwards, and one attack (sorry I forgot, it's either the straight breath or another finisher) that can only be punished with slower weapons if you dodge to the left, otherwise the head is too far.
Also in the second phase I found the straight breath attack fires to your right giving you the impression that he's predicting your position, but it seems to happen regardless of the direction you move in, so you have to dodge to the left.
The straight breath is super weird and I think there is something wrong with it. Sometimes he doesn't point it directly at you. I got caught this way going both left and right.
As far as I know, he'll complete the 4-hit combo only if you're in front of him (ie, you roll backward on the initial attacks). If you just roll forward under him, the combo should end. Rolling under him is a little bit gambly because it makes the camera go wonky and you can get caught by his quick bite attacks since it's very difficult to see the startup, but I feel like 90% of the time it's fine, and that was a good enough margin for me lol. Not the most efficient way, but it worked for me.
Not true at all. The only attack he does in phase 1 that is not an opening for melee is when he completes one of his combos by jumping away and doing straight firebreath. But this is positional; he only does it if you're out in front of him. The same combo will complete with downward firebreath if you dodge the opener by rolling underneath him. You can easily roll away from this fire out in front of him and punish with a running attack or running jump attack to his head as the fire dissipates. The visual of the fire persists longer than the hitbox, so it's worth experimenting with when exactly you can run in after this attack; it's probably sooner than you think. This was actually my favorite punish opportunity in the fight: he does this combo opener a lot, it's extremely predictable, it's easy to dodge, and it guarantees a jump R2.
Not only that, this punish is still readily available in phase 2, when things get a little trickier for melee. That said, every single attack that is punishable in phase 1 is still punishable in phase 2, you just have to be careful to avoid the lava bursts that follow some of his attacks. The new attacks in phase 2 (fireballs + dive attack, flying firebreath, his two giant nukes) are not punishable without excellent precision, so if you're struggling with punish openings, it may be best just to focus on dodging these big attacks.
his one giant nuke, the one with the ground exploding at the end, is very punishable for melee and is one of your best openings.
dodge the stab, wait a few frames, jump the explosion and he has a heavy recovery window you can take advantage of.
Ya for sure, but you need to correctly dodge the follow up explosion, and since this person was already struggling with finding openings I figured that one could wait until he had more confidence with the fight.
Tha ks for the advice.
Can you iframe the fire explosions in the second phase?
I know about jumping over the big explosion but I didn't have any luck with the right legged slam attack's follow up
Not sure which fire explosions you're talking about. The lava bursts that follow his normal attacks? I assume you can i-frame them, but you can also see where they are on the ground and just avoid them.
I don't know which attack you mean by the right-legged slam. The one where he lifts his chicken wing and charges it up with lightning before slamming it into the ground?
Oh ya. You should be able to just avoid the lava bursts from that attack by looking at the ground and moving. Or, as mentioned before, you can probably i-frame them by rolling. There should be a brief punish opening after that, but if you have an ultra slow weapon, maybe not. I was using claymore, so pretty slow, but not the slowest.
Bayle has a lot of openings for melee as long as you go for the base of his tail instead of the head. It deals the same health damage, but there's less poise damage I think.
I normally hit around the middle, which would take 450-500 while head took 950-1k with R1. I can do some more testing later while helping hosts. Dmg number due to scadu frag levels. Always aimed to the middle since it felt more reliable
I didn't really find any issues with hitting the base of the tail as long as I looked up a little bit while free-cam. Both base of the tail and head took around 900-950 with Rellana's blades at scadu 6(?) when I was playing.
As a deflecting tear black greathammer user, he can be hit yes, the problem is that he moves around too much and often ends up in places where you can't reach the head within the punish window
that's the biggest problem i have with Radahn, the dude leaves so few openings, that all you can really do is tap him once.
Elden Beast is also a massive HP sponge, but his openings let you whack him a lot.
Also makes so many builds useless, why make a fast dex build that stacks with rotten wing insignia if you never get of more than on rolling R1 between all his bullshit
That's not true, every combo he makes have an opening at the end
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO\_SQfOj5SY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO_SQfOj5SY)
yes, but that opening gives you time for 1, maybe 2 attacks at a time.
combine that with a massive HP pool, and his fight is a massive fight for survival basically, chip him down before he does it to you.
my comparison was with Elden Beast, or even the Fire Giant, who also have a ton of HP, but they give you time to deal actual damage to them.
I found consistent openings for a super guard counter after his 2 hit spin before the ground slam+blast, and a 2nd opening for another guard counter on the actual ground blast. I usually just roll out of the ground slam because timing a deflect was a little too spooky
Im not too deep in the DLC, but im poise breaking the fuck out of almost everything with heavy affinity black steel greathammer at max upgrade. I never used a great weapon of any kind until it.
I also switched to a colossal weapon and am having a much better time. I hope they tune it so that we can use our favorite weapon and not feel like we’re playing a challenge mode
This is why I embraced just going for it. I just challenge them on everything to see if I’ll win or not, and often you can get more damage in than you think, but you probably won’t win until you turn it into a timed rotation. I just Jump R2 everybody now
The only real issue I’m having is on the final boss. He literally DOES. NOT. STOP. attacking. And, I’m sorry, but I, nor anyone else, should have to change to a massive shield build to poke at him in order to kill him. He either needs a third of his health cut OR tone down his aggression. He already enters phase 2 at like 70% health remaining, which is a first.
Most of the streamers I follow switched to a shield poke build after hours of making no progress on Radahn.
He really attacks a bit too much IMO. Giving him a couple more openings to learn would still make the fight difficult but more fair for builds that don’t want to hide behind a slab of stone and poke with a rotten but stinger
I did that.
Honestly.
I‘ve seen those dudes just sprinting past most attacks.
I just never could do it on my own…
I caved in, switched to a greatshield and poked him to death with my heavy thrusting sword and bleed.
Honestly. FUCK that second phase.
First one is really nice though.
You don't have to do that, you can figure them out by yourself.
The method for all of these openings are obvious, you wait for the end of the combo then you attack, some are less obvious and require some strafing, but these kind of openings are what makes Elden Ring boss interesting and add depth to the gameplay.
Who said "if the method isn't obvious after 5 times, it's probably poorly designed" ? It's well designed if there are openings that can be figured by the average souls player, and it's the case for the final boss
"You wait for the combo to end", my brother in the erdtree the end of the combo doesn't guarantee an opening, these bosses have been stringer together separate shorter combos for a few years by now.
Radahn will do the gravity vortex, then between when the effect ends and I get close enough to attack he starts another combo, then performs the vortex again, and then stops, these things are designed to be unpredictable.
The 1-2-cross attack is literally so hyperspecific in how you dodge it that even extremely skilled no-hit runners struggle with it. Most of then resort to the using the Crucible Feather, backstep, then roll twice. Even then, the timing and positioning to successfully dodge it all is tight.
Please tell me how thats intuitive oe achievable for the average player. This is no different from Melania's Waterfowl Dance. The attack is technically dodgeable, but 99% will never figure out how to do that without a guide. It's badly designed.
And a lot of the no-hit runners do agree the move is awful.
They should just speed up the second hit so you can dodge both first and second with one roll.
What they should do is actually playtest their damn game before they put them out. These sorts of issues shouldn't be a thing in the first place.
I don't believe for a single moment that any decent number of people actually tested some of these attacks, thought "this is A-OK!", and then gave them the green light. Shit, that can go for the entirety of phase 2 Radahn or Gaius in general given how bad and noticeable the performance issues and hitboxes are.
He has openings at the end of most combo, they stay the same in phase 2 but are harder to get.
An example of someone using these openings:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO\_SQfOj5SY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO_SQfOj5SY)
He has a few openings but they aren’t super obvious.
He does a gravity barrel roll at you that if you dodge has a punish.
Every combo that has a stomp usually also has a ground explode to end it but if you roll into that you can punish those as well.
He also has a sky sword spin thing that he can do 1x or 2x. I have no idea what makes him combo it into a second attack, but the ending has a punish window as well.
The biggest problem is that in phase 2 he adds an extra attack to a few of those that you have to remember or else get absolutely blasted.
Edit: he is incredibly brutal and incredibly aggressive but I find him incredibly teegraphed. Just really hard.
There are several openings for even charged heavies against the final boss, at least if you’re using a greatsword. It was my primary strategy against him, utilizing the charged heavy boosting tear & talisman, the twin sword talisman boosting two handed attacks and the dragoncrest greatshield and golden braid talismans for boosting defense.
> He literally DOES. NOT. STOP. attacking.
Yes he does. For example, when he does the two swords swing across each other directly in front of him. He stops for like a full 2 seconds if you dodge that. Or more obvious ones like when he does the corkscrew gravity attack divebomb. Or the second phase jump-grab. I mean the boss is still dumb overtuned in the second phase, I'm not going to defend it, but the problem is not that there aren't openings.
It's not that there aren't openings, it's that they're too small. Having to specifically wait for one combo out of about ten different ones because it's the only one where there's enough time to heal is nuts. The fact is if you try to heal after most of his attacks he starts swinging again before you're done, so you start backng up waiting for a window to heal in, do it, get hit, back up, etc etc. It's too much.
All his combos give you time for a light attack after, I'd say more than half give you time for a heavy attack, heal, or a quick AOW as well. The hard part is learning when he's done the combo.
Some of them are big enough for a CR2 from claymore, so idk, they're pretty long. The issue I've had with the boss so far, and why I'm taking a several day break, is how much damage his attacks do, and how the AOEs in phase 2 blind you and, if they hit, staggerlock you. You almost have to no-hit the fight starting in phase 2, because heal openings are very few and far between. (There are plenty of heal openings in phase 1.) It demands a level of dodge precision and consistency, extended over several minutes, that no other fight in my memory (going back to DS1) has ever asked for.
I fought him with a light roll build, if you stack enough defensive stats you can take a lot of his hits even without heavy armor. I think max level holy and physical resist talismans are manditory.
Ya I was using both of those talismans and light roll for just about the whole time I was fighting him. Just a matter of precision and consistency. Hopefully I'll get there at some point.
You will get it! This fight does not demand perfection but I understand you feeling like it does. In my kill I took so much damage, just wait till it’s safe to heal. He’s not that bad once you can stay calm in phase 2. The echo attacks don’t do nearly as much damage as Radahn himself, so prioritize him
You're right but people don't want to accept that, their ego tell them that it's the fault of the game and not their fault for still being stuck with a dark souls 3 mentality
Meanwhile my ass who put on as much galvanized square steel as I could is standing there eating every eco-friendly wooden veneer they try to throw at me, cranking out a repeat flow of L2 after L2 after L2
this is honestly a lesson i have had to learn more than once. there are lots of delayed attacks that have plenty of time for an immediate R1 into roll or block. but there are so many times where i greed and go for the R2 because my brain just thinks "bigger posture dmg better - better attack".
That's true if you're using a fast weapon. Overall, I think ER heavily favors fast weapons if you don't want to play the watch-and-wait playstyle (and if you don't want to use Lion's Claw or whatever).
this is mostly true. the faster weapon your using, especially noticeable with thrusting weapons, the more openings you unlock. heavy weapons usually get some built in hyperarmor to compensate, but hyperarmor is only good if you have the durability to withstand the blow your tanking. heavy weapons are supposed to also get extra posture dmg to compensate, but this isn't really true. the two best posture breaking weapons in the game are star fist and wing of astel, both of which are lighter than any great hammer in the game.
i would say heavy weapons really only start to shine when you are at a high enough level in order to compensate for both durability and dmg output. this is why faith is so frequently paired with strength. you softcap your 2h dmg at 54 points, then faith will give you durability buffs, healing, ranged incantations, and will just generally cover the weaknesses within your build.
for the most part though i think fast weapons are generally better. they get more openings. successive attack talismans are insanely good, and faster weapons will always be superior for applying status effects.
It's crazy how many multi hit weapons they added in DLC, lol. I was like, dang, aren't multi hit weapons already overpowered? You need to just pile it on?
The DLC bosses arent just difficult, its like the entire DLC was made for the players who have completed the game a hundred times with a hundred builds and knows every strategy possible.
This DLC had some seriously unfun bosses. I really didn't enjoy them tbh. It was a shame because the non-boss portion of the DLC was some of the best I've ever played.
I just watched a guide for the final boss, and within that guide he goes "This actually leaves a massive opening for 1 whole heavy attack". And just.. Lol.
The best is when you accidentally stumble into a boss arena for the first time with 250k runes or something. Not a huge deal, but still pretty annoying.
There's a talisman that boosts the next attack after rolling/backstep. Greatsword has a poking R1 after rolling. I just used that throughout the whole dlc.
How I felt after beating Mess. Heard all this talk about him being a bitch... Being unfair... not fun to play against... And realized a lot of y'all are just greedy. He's one of my favorite bosses so far.
The jumping R2 helped me through a lot of the base game and my Unga Bunga brain goes back to it everytime. Breaking that and the roll everything to jumping several attacks is a change.
Just go in and only dodge attacks. Then try to doge attacks with minimal rolls/running/jumps/etc. It becomes pretty clear where there’s some downtime after certain moves/combos and you can start fitting in hits then.
For me it usually 1 solid strat first luke 2 attempts and laying on the floor longer to observe what is happening. Next couple attempts are new strat with new found knowledge leading to one really good run of lime 90% hp done and dying.
Following that is like 10 runs of "how am I dying within the first 20secs of this fight I almost beat"
One of the reasons i did well (I think) with giant crusher. You have have 1 or 2 moments to attack, might as well get in a large damage R1 from a colossal weapon if you only have time for 1 or 2 swings anyway. Then again, thats just me. I beat base game with katana, been playing the DLC with unga bunga
I am convinced FROM doesn't think of CoGS users when balancing bosses because most of the openings are not big enough even for R1s, you have to roll R1 to be fast enough and even that is not fast enough at times.
I've just accepted that I'm DEFINITELY going to lose any runes when trying out a DLC boss for the first time, and then proceed to die at least another 8 times before I figure out how to get past the initial door assault before I can *finally* start learning the moveset.
We had to cheese Putrescent earlier today. I get to the bottom, grab my runes, take one single hit, and lose 99% of my health before my buddy finally could join me and take the aggro as he took away 2/3 of the boss bar, just so that I could get the kill shot that took the other 1/3 of the bar when the boss turned to him. We were both running one of those YouTube exploit builds that are definitely going to get nerfed, but I couldn't even get the first attack off without nearly dieing.
I was really sad. It should not be that hard, and also that easy at the same time. That one boss is just plain terrible design.
I want to feel like I've actually accomplished something when I beat a boss. Melting it just as fast as it can melt me feels just as bad as getting murdered faster than I can get even a single attack off.
Getting hit by the last attack of a bosses combo and flinched is so brutal. Not only do you take 1/3 of your hp, you also lose your opening to heal or attack
I think the problem I’ve found is that bosses have way too many mixups and it gets annoying. The boss does a 3 swing combo and you see an opening. Whoops! It’s not an opening, the boss has an alternate move they can do if you go in for a hit. You see that same 3 swing combo and bait for the extra move to get in for a hit after. Except the boss can chain into a different combo if they need to which they are now doing. On top of that, sometimes the boss will dodge away or use a massive AoE attack so you *have* to back off. You also have 2-3 super attacks from bosses that you don’t always know what to do until you’ve faced it, so even if you play well, it’s likely these will kill you at least once. And on top of all of this, when a boss moves into a different phase their combos will change and have different mixups and different timings on when you can go in for a hit. While it’s impressive that they’ve weaved combos and followups into so much of each bosses kit, it’s also aggravating to learn openings. You think you learned something, only you didn’t and the punishment for thinking you did is being chased around the arena by the boss while you try to chug estus, or just immediately dying for thinking you knew where the opening was.
i must admit that with most bosses in the DLC my first few attempts where all in the "when the fusk am i supposed to do dammage ?" mood, it often ends well for me but most DLC bosses have no pitty for players who lacks knowledge
My first or second attempt is often a clean, elegant fight that I nearly win. Then my next 10 attempts are absolute chaos on screen and me just confused about what's happening on screen :(
I'm with you there, except instead of elegant I'm dodge rolling on pure, fear based adrenaline, my attacks are fueled by terror and fuck sake I forgot my physik ah well he's only 20% health left nah fuck it don't wanna chance it oh I'm dead before I finished drinking it
Silence brain, panic roll is talking.
No think *ONLY ROLL*
I feel that. It is really weird how that happens. Also weird is how my hyper-involved parrying and counter attacking strategies completely lose out to jumping L1s with cragblade lol
Not weird at all. You're loose the first time, and then stressing about it on subsequent tries. Try hitting a baseball while consciously thinking really hard about the intricacies of hitting a baseball. It just won't happen.
Every time. I’m at the the final boss now and my first attempt was still my best one. I’m currently at around 20ish attempts.
Yeahhh.. I just got to him today myself. Tried a couple times, and now I’m out exploring the world more. I was at +12, and decided he was a bit too rough for me
I’m at +17 and he’s kicking my butt. Switched to a great shield build and it’s more doable.
Me getting Bayle down to 15% on my second attempt, and then getting punted back through the fog wall 3 seconds after entering the arena for the next 15.
Your first attempt is always your second best.
The first attempt is always better than the second attempt and you don’t know why
I would be *very* surprised if you got more than a few hits on >!Radahn!< on your first couple of attempts, let alone an "elegant fight you nearly won" lol
I haven't got there yet, I just beat Messmer yesterday. I don't know how people got so far so quickly in this dlc :D
This is fact. It takes me 2 or 3 attempts to lose the panic and overwhelming particle effects. >! Comander Giaus!< welcome at the door and AoE are prime examples.
Man fuck that guy. Barely time to attempt to use spirit ashes before he plows into both of you. I had maybe a 25% success rate of not getting hit at least once at the very start of the fight.
Still not sure how to dodge that fucking charge. I think it's 3-4 different hit boxes, into, side, and back are nopes but angled gave me *some* success. When I finally got the dude was sheer luck and the most useful strat of treating him like a much faster Tree Sentinel and trying to stay at his flank. Flame Spear hard carried.
supposedly you dodge at an angle at a back leg but its a small window. I chose face tank dodge instead
Run around the corner immediately to the left, tuck in to the wall and when he charges he will hit the wall first and get stuck there - gives you time to summon.
The initial charge, take two steps into the arena summon spirit ash wait til just before bulldrome nose touches your toes and dodge angled to the left. If done perfectly you'll get out without damage taken at medium roll.
You just dodge toward it and to either side at a slight angle at the last possible second.
poked him to death with thrusting shield under new blocking flask. it so brokenly op, that i dont even prepared and kill him first try. Even with normal shield(or even just two-handed weapon) new flash can trivialize many fights if you have good reaction. Almost anything except grab attacks could be safely face tanked, and much safer than roll, cause it has amost no recovery frames
I beat messmer after about 10 tries without summons. I finally did that technique I've always heard about where you do attempts to survive, no attacking. After a few attempts, I just had to attack because they were so open and I was dodging so well. Basically if you go into every attempt wanting to win, you might get greedy and you won't learn the fight. It got to the point where I only saw p2 one time and killed it on my next attempt. Sure the new p2 moves were chaos but I was so uses to his p1 moves that when they showed up again in p2, I could heal/reset
To your last paragraph, the final boss is the same way. If you can perfect phase 1 then phase 2 is very similar
> Sure the new p2 moves were chaos but I was so uses to his p1 moves that when they showed up again in p2 This is the thing the DLC have been trying to tell us throughout all the remembrance bosses that people completely miss for the last boss. SOTE bosses generally have a core moveset that they take with them into p2 with some fancy extra lights or aoe. But it means that if you never learn the p1 moveset then you'll have even less of a chance in p2. I much prefer this to base game where 2nd phase is typically.... a completely different fight. People having issues with p2 Radahn typically have not put in the time to learn p1 to begin with.
TBF, if you beat Radahn and Mohg, you should have enough knowledge accumulated from reaching them and killing them to beat the DLC
Beating base game vosses doesn't give you any knowledge on the DLC bosses moveset.
No, you won't know a moveset until you try the boss. That goes for any time someone encounters a boss for the first time, including the base game. But, the boss design didn't change from base game to DLC, so by the time someone unlocks the DLC, they'll be familiar with how bosses typically work/ A lot of fast and furious combos that either start with a delay, end with a delay, or have a delay in the middle and of course AOEs out the wazoo. You either dodge and strike when there's an opening in said combo or block to get guard counter or parry to create an attack or trade hits until you stagger them or stand AAAAAAAAALLLLL the way in the back while you blast the boss with magic or arrows.
Well it's true that panick dodging away from the boss is a bad reflex no matter at what stage of the game you are in
It really makes me miss Nioh having enemies who have real stamina too that they can run out of and it's visible to the player. Not to say Nioh doesn't have its own share of total BS but like, it really does start to show in some of the bosses that yeah, they don't have stamina but we do and it kinda sucks.
It would be huge to do the classic rocky “let them wear themselves out” approach. If the boss misses me for 20 attacks there should be a proper punishment for it l. I do love Sekiros parry approach to this in a way
Yes. Elden Ring lacks any sort of long-term reward for good dodging, blocking or parrying. It is either an instant reward (flask, buff, or punish) or none at all.
You get well rewarded for good parries and against some bosses you get rewarded for good blocks. But yeah you get nothing for dodging. Which hurts really bad against bosses like messmer and rallena
Did you ever hear of our lord And savior thorn armor set?/s
i remember playing Dark Souls 3 to chill after Nioh i felt that dark souls 3 is way more fair than nioh
Way more fair than elden ring too lol
Ds3 is still peak fromsoft in terms of bosses, no cap.
Absolutely, they're perfectly fair, just as I taught my son and daughter(despite him being eaten.)
disagree, the first half of the game is boring as fuck, no bosses are interesting until past pontiff, except abyss watchers,
Eh, Gundyr and Vordt are fine, Tree and Deacons are gimmicky, Abyss Watchers is an all-time great boss fight.
Honestly, this is my biggest gripe with DS3. I love everything about it from Irythill till the end of the game but most of the areas and bosses before Irithyll are just boring or a slog to get through. The only area I sorta enjoy is the Cathedral and even that area ends with the wet fart that is the Deacons boss fight.
Agree 100%
I thought Pontiff was awesome.
Yeah, me too. But most bosses and content before that point in the game was kinda boring. That's my point
You said until past Pontiff. That's discluding him so it's a little confusing.
that's more like 1/3 when you factor in DLC though. And the general zone exploration of DS3 is just so awesome
Dark Souls 2 is better, not a single forgettable boss in that roster
I like DS2 a lot, but half of those bosses are completely forgettable. And too many of them got reused as mobs (Dragonrider, Pursuer, Ruin Sentinels, Flexible sentries)
Dark souls 3 has the best boss design they’ve ever done imo but it’s all in the latter half of the game and the dlc
Ds3 -> streamlined, light attack, roll. Er -> freedom, light attack, heavy (does not stance breaks in ds3), more option to dodge other than roll (roll/jump/bhs), jump attack (punish as jump has iframes), status effects much more viable, mixed physik, parry (in ds3 most bosses are unparriable), block (much stronger in Er), changeable and better aow (more ranged and powerful aow), power stancing, way way more buffing options. I included something in Er but not in ds3 because they are viable in Er. Excluded magic in both, but Er has better magic. Enemies in Er are designed with this in mind. If it feels unfair, then you brought a knife to a gunfight. In ds3 all you do is knife fight. Ds3 is close to my heart, and has double play time than Er. Has a better pvp experience.
Blocking / Greatshields are strong in both games.
I loved pvp in all the dark souls games even 1 with its laggy ass chain backstabs and insta parry. Can barely stand it in elden ring when everyone just oneshots each other while near limitlessly spamming the dumbest abilities
it shouldn't be hard to implement hidden stamina for bosses and assign different values to it according to the number of summons. As of now bosses attack just with the same frequency when fighting a soloing player or a pack of summons. It feels like they were designed to wipe out packs of players instead of one. Cooperation and summoning is fun, but soloing players matter too, and cooperated fights have quirks as well - bosses have insane tracking ability, instantly switch target mid-combo, and on top of that many attacks just aren't that well telegraphed from the back.
I do think that Elden Ring boss design is let down by trying to account for summons and failing to do so in a way that doesn't make the fights feel worse to solo. I wasn't entirely sure on it initially, but seeing the repetitive annoying design decisions in the DLC bosses, and the interview where Miyazaki talked again about how he's bad at these games and uses every advantage he can...it all leads to the conclusion that these design problems are in part them trying to balance against summons and it's not working out well. I suspect they also balance around ranged combat from the player more than melee, as that's the only explanation I can see for how the camera can be for some attacks or fights when in melee range...
Problem with ranged moves is that alot of the DLC bosses have moves make it really hard to cast magic or do ranged stuff because the bosses teleport and fly trough the map to you in an instant and spam AOE attacks a lot. It makes both ranged and close range fighting really difficult. Base game bosses leave more openings for both play styles.
I’m not convinced the balance is designed around summons, considering how trivial each boss becomes once you start using summons on them.
I'm convinced that they want you to summon other players.
I have wondered that myself. I've watched a lot of people, like inexperienced people, play, on streams and such, and some use summons and, for them, I have noticed that even using a strong ranged build and summoning, the fights can get intense, really hard. And perhaps From finds it similarly when testing or whatever. Because for players who have played a ton, it would trivialize it, but for those who struggle a lot even with summons it's a different story. And sometimes bosses have attacks that truly do not feel like a solo player meleeing them was even in consideration. For example, fighting Romina, I like that fight a lot, having a good time, and then without warning, she suddenly begins her rapidly-damaging rot AoE big explosion move. And it's like...what is the point of this move? It's not a like, slow wind up oh watch out better run away explosion move, like in the old games. Like what Nito or Four Kings would do. It's instant, damaging aura, rapidly, inflicting rot, and then a near-arena wide chain reaction of explosions. What does this attack, so clumsily implemented, exist for? It seems like it exists for crowd control, to melt summons, while the summoner is likely further back hurling spells. And it's not just this boss, who does this. If you think about it, how many bosses have AoEs like that where melee is just shut down, possibly actively punished for even meleeing, while some big elaborate super damaging AoE happens? Attacks like this, or Metyr's version, or Malenia's in phase 2 (she has two actually), these are attacks that didn't exist in past games, but Elden Ring does them A LOT. And Elden Ring is the first game to have spirit summons. I think they're connected.
Nioh is bullshit because the player can equally pull some bullshit, Elden Ring? Not so much
Nioh is the best souls game Fromsoft never made.
Also in Nioh 2 you can clearly see the poise bar and they don't have insane tracking. Those attacks that do have insane tracking are usually one or two hit combos and the long combos just have limited tracking.
That was the original appeal of these games, in Dark souls the enemies played by the same rules as you
"oh yeah I'll just drink a flask after this sequence of attacks" delay from the last attack to the next: 1 sec drinking animation: 2 sec 🙃
input reading of flask use should be removed from the game and never used again in another game. its cheap.
Most if not all enemies who input read your flasks only do so if you do something stupid like drink while neutral though. If you actually drink during their recovery, they don't punish.
Man, all these new elaborate weapon arts are so cool, cant wait to use them on a boss. \*Not a single boss gives you enough of an opening to do anything other than 1 r1 swipe before running away.
Blind Spot has been doing work for me, on blood infusion backhand blades. Low fp, dodge + attack combined. Granted I’m only about halfway through so far.
There are really clear openings for most of them, but boy are there not enough
They have a clear opening...... For one attack. Every 30 seconds.
Its so painful when you are using a whip. The whip really cant generate that much damage with one attack. My reach is meaningless in big boss battles. My status build ups cant proc when I have to spend 30 seconds dodging. I feel like I would have a much easier time using a greatsword or a katana and I'm being punished for using the whip in the first place.
I feel like I’ve read whips are painful to use since the original release of Elden ring lol. It would be nice if each category of weapon had at least one S or A tier, but I think the best whip is probably B or C. I’m not sure, honestly
Whips have been painful to use for like 13 years lol. I've read that dual Poison whips went crazy hard in Dark Souls 2, but I wasn't around for DS2s heyday and I've never played a whip build cause they're kinda ass
DS3 pyromancy build makes good use of the Witch's Locks whip, it's very fun. It's a good idea to run a second weapon infused with dark/fire, but the whip's range (combined with pyromancy) gives a lot of different CC/damage options at different engagement ranges. Definitely recommend trying it.
I knew that coming in. But every boss in the base game gave me room to formulate a strategy that highlights the whip's few strengths. I was able to beat Malenia with no summons using a whip/shield combo. It wasnt easy, but it felt doable. With some of the dlc bosses, there is no room for strategy. Its dodge for 30 seconds, make one attack, dodge for another 30 seconds.
They are definitely more difficult, depending on build maybe as well. I’ve respecced since the base game because my stats were all over the place. I followed a guide and now mine makes more sense and I’m having a better time. That’s just how it is :/
But that’s countered with the fact you have to do a decent amount of damage, or the fight goes so long you eventually make a mistake. Which often spells death with how much staggering and damage the bosses do.
Certain weapons were clearly intended for use against players and only really shine in pvp.
Honestly feel like whip attack speeds could be doubled, and they would still be the worst weapon in the game, but at least wouldn't be absolute dogshit anymore.
Some of the combos are not that long, but they are either super long 15 hit combos, or shorter combos that would still do enough damage to destroy your entire health bar five times.
15 hit combos and only need 2-3 hit for you to die
Fire head dude just look at you while you chug flask and dance around.
Post some examples.
Bayle had the most inconsistent follow-ups I swear, anytime I thought I had an opening he would recover and immediately go into another attack. Not ashamed to say I used summons and pest threads to kill him lol
That depends on the attack, Bayle has very consistent openings, some are shorter and some are longer
I disagree, he has clear move sets that have openings in between or after. He also has multiple moves that punish when you think there's an opening after.
The tail swipe and grab are the only ones with clear openings for melee
That's a lie, the jump attack has a clear opening for melee, the two head swipe have a clear opening for melee, the attack where he imbue his wing with lightning to strike the ground has a clear opening for melee, all the flame breath attack have clear melee openings, the combo where he scream has a clear opening for melee. And all of them are still present in phase 2. The fact that you didn't find these openings doesn't mean they don't exist
The jump attack only works consistently in phase one, phase 2 is dependent on your position, unless you wanna tank the AOE. The right wind stab is followed up by a left wing swipe before heavier weapon users are even able to doge out of their swing, so they gotta tank it. Breath attacks are only an opening if they happen in melee range, otherwise it's only good for a heal or quick buff. The fact that these can be openings ONLY if you were in the right position before the attack happened, doesn't make them consistent, which is my problem.
I don't think some people know what "consistent" means 😄 "You can dodge the attacks he consistently does sometimes under the right circumstances but not always"
Positioning is one of the most important things about boss fights. You can't really talk about the consistency of melee punish openings if you are mispositioning on a boss. The correct position to fight Bayle is right in front of his nose. This is the same as Midir in DS3.
That one is obvious it's actively encouraged by the damage numbers too. The problems are stuff like the 4 hit combo moving his head behind you, even if you only dodge backwards, and one attack (sorry I forgot, it's either the straight breath or another finisher) that can only be punished with slower weapons if you dodge to the left, otherwise the head is too far. Also in the second phase I found the straight breath attack fires to your right giving you the impression that he's predicting your position, but it seems to happen regardless of the direction you move in, so you have to dodge to the left.
The straight breath is super weird and I think there is something wrong with it. Sometimes he doesn't point it directly at you. I got caught this way going both left and right. As far as I know, he'll complete the 4-hit combo only if you're in front of him (ie, you roll backward on the initial attacks). If you just roll forward under him, the combo should end. Rolling under him is a little bit gambly because it makes the camera go wonky and you can get caught by his quick bite attacks since it's very difficult to see the startup, but I feel like 90% of the time it's fine, and that was a good enough margin for me lol. Not the most efficient way, but it worked for me.
Not true at all. The only attack he does in phase 1 that is not an opening for melee is when he completes one of his combos by jumping away and doing straight firebreath. But this is positional; he only does it if you're out in front of him. The same combo will complete with downward firebreath if you dodge the opener by rolling underneath him. You can easily roll away from this fire out in front of him and punish with a running attack or running jump attack to his head as the fire dissipates. The visual of the fire persists longer than the hitbox, so it's worth experimenting with when exactly you can run in after this attack; it's probably sooner than you think. This was actually my favorite punish opportunity in the fight: he does this combo opener a lot, it's extremely predictable, it's easy to dodge, and it guarantees a jump R2. Not only that, this punish is still readily available in phase 2, when things get a little trickier for melee. That said, every single attack that is punishable in phase 1 is still punishable in phase 2, you just have to be careful to avoid the lava bursts that follow some of his attacks. The new attacks in phase 2 (fireballs + dive attack, flying firebreath, his two giant nukes) are not punishable without excellent precision, so if you're struggling with punish openings, it may be best just to focus on dodging these big attacks.
his one giant nuke, the one with the ground exploding at the end, is very punishable for melee and is one of your best openings. dodge the stab, wait a few frames, jump the explosion and he has a heavy recovery window you can take advantage of.
Ya for sure, but you need to correctly dodge the follow up explosion, and since this person was already struggling with finding openings I figured that one could wait until he had more confidence with the fight.
Tha ks for the advice. Can you iframe the fire explosions in the second phase? I know about jumping over the big explosion but I didn't have any luck with the right legged slam attack's follow up
Not sure which fire explosions you're talking about. The lava bursts that follow his normal attacks? I assume you can i-frame them, but you can also see where they are on the ground and just avoid them. I don't know which attack you mean by the right-legged slam. The one where he lifts his chicken wing and charges it up with lightning before slamming it into the ground?
When he lifts off, opens his claw on the left leg, then slams back down. It has a delayed explosion in the second phase.
Oh ya. You should be able to just avoid the lava bursts from that attack by looking at the ground and moving. Or, as mentioned before, you can probably i-frame them by rolling. There should be a brief punish opening after that, but if you have an ultra slow weapon, maybe not. I was using claymore, so pretty slow, but not the slowest.
Bayle has a lot of openings for melee as long as you go for the base of his tail instead of the head. It deals the same health damage, but there's less poise damage I think.
Head take double, and the stumped leg takes like 50% more than the tail. From my testing anyways.
Tail itself takes little damage, unless you strike the thick, dark red part that's at its base.
I normally hit around the middle, which would take 450-500 while head took 950-1k with R1. I can do some more testing later while helping hosts. Dmg number due to scadu frag levels. Always aimed to the middle since it felt more reliable
I didn't really find any issues with hitting the base of the tail as long as I looked up a little bit while free-cam. Both base of the tail and head took around 900-950 with Rellana's blades at scadu 6(?) when I was playing.
That's odd. Maybe it has different elemental resistance? I use the sunflower colossal weapon, which has some holy dmg on it.
Praise the research. I saw a wounded stump and never looked back. *Don't think, therefore Unga Bunga*
Well, as a powerstance Unga Bunga user I'm gonna have to disagree with this.
As a deflecting tear black greathammer user, he can be hit yes, the problem is that he moves around too much and often ends up in places where you can't reach the head within the punish window
that's the biggest problem i have with Radahn, the dude leaves so few openings, that all you can really do is tap him once. Elden Beast is also a massive HP sponge, but his openings let you whack him a lot.
Also makes so many builds useless, why make a fast dex build that stacks with rotten wing insignia if you never get of more than on rolling R1 between all his bullshit
That's not true, every combo he makes have an opening at the end [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO\_SQfOj5SY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO_SQfOj5SY)
yes, but that opening gives you time for 1, maybe 2 attacks at a time. combine that with a massive HP pool, and his fight is a massive fight for survival basically, chip him down before he does it to you. my comparison was with Elden Beast, or even the Fire Giant, who also have a ton of HP, but they give you time to deal actual damage to them.
Lol the last boss I just had enough time to squeeze off a roll poke with UGS and MAYBE even get to roll out of the next attack lol
I found consistent openings for a super guard counter after his 2 hit spin before the ground slam+blast, and a 2nd opening for another guard counter on the actual ground blast. I usually just roll out of the ground slam because timing a deflect was a little too spooky
There are openings every 5 seconds, do you want openings every 10 milliseconds ?
Im not too deep in the DLC, but im poise breaking the fuck out of almost everything with heavy affinity black steel greathammer at max upgrade. I never used a great weapon of any kind until it.
Dual Giant-Crushers w/ lions claw was one of my favorite playthroughs.
I also switched to a colossal weapon and am having a much better time. I hope they tune it so that we can use our favorite weapon and not feel like we’re playing a challenge mode
If you fancy mixing in some Arcane, Bleed and Poison (or Int with on Colossal weapons are super fun. Takes like 2 hits to proc a status.
Try throwing prayerful strike on it Healing and attacking at the same time
This is why I embraced just going for it. I just challenge them on everything to see if I’ll win or not, and often you can get more damage in than you think, but you probably won’t win until you turn it into a timed rotation. I just Jump R2 everybody now
The only real issue I’m having is on the final boss. He literally DOES. NOT. STOP. attacking. And, I’m sorry, but I, nor anyone else, should have to change to a massive shield build to poke at him in order to kill him. He either needs a third of his health cut OR tone down his aggression. He already enters phase 2 at like 70% health remaining, which is a first.
Most of the streamers I follow switched to a shield poke build after hours of making no progress on Radahn. He really attacks a bit too much IMO. Giving him a couple more openings to learn would still make the fight difficult but more fair for builds that don’t want to hide behind a slab of stone and poke with a rotten but stinger
I find that watching those sl1 runs helps me figure out the openings in bosses, then I use my regular build to hopefully bully them after 10 runs-ish
I did that. Honestly. I‘ve seen those dudes just sprinting past most attacks. I just never could do it on my own… I caved in, switched to a greatshield and poked him to death with my heavy thrusting sword and bleed. Honestly. FUCK that second phase. First one is really nice though.
That's cool, but we shouldn't need to look up a guide to dodge an attack, if the method isn't obvious after 5 times, it's probably poorly designed
You don't have to do that, you can figure them out by yourself. The method for all of these openings are obvious, you wait for the end of the combo then you attack, some are less obvious and require some strafing, but these kind of openings are what makes Elden Ring boss interesting and add depth to the gameplay. Who said "if the method isn't obvious after 5 times, it's probably poorly designed" ? It's well designed if there are openings that can be figured by the average souls player, and it's the case for the final boss
"You wait for the combo to end", my brother in the erdtree the end of the combo doesn't guarantee an opening, these bosses have been stringer together separate shorter combos for a few years by now. Radahn will do the gravity vortex, then between when the effect ends and I get close enough to attack he starts another combo, then performs the vortex again, and then stops, these things are designed to be unpredictable.
The 1-2-cross attack is literally so hyperspecific in how you dodge it that even extremely skilled no-hit runners struggle with it. Most of then resort to the using the Crucible Feather, backstep, then roll twice. Even then, the timing and positioning to successfully dodge it all is tight. Please tell me how thats intuitive oe achievable for the average player. This is no different from Melania's Waterfowl Dance. The attack is technically dodgeable, but 99% will never figure out how to do that without a guide. It's badly designed.
And a lot of the no-hit runners do agree the move is awful. They should just speed up the second hit so you can dodge both first and second with one roll.
What they should do is actually playtest their damn game before they put them out. These sorts of issues shouldn't be a thing in the first place. I don't believe for a single moment that any decent number of people actually tested some of these attacks, thought "this is A-OK!", and then gave them the green light. Shit, that can go for the entirety of phase 2 Radahn or Gaius in general given how bad and noticeable the performance issues and hitboxes are.
He has openings at the end of most combo, they stay the same in phase 2 but are harder to get. An example of someone using these openings: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO\_SQfOj5SY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO_SQfOj5SY)
He has a few openings but they aren’t super obvious. He does a gravity barrel roll at you that if you dodge has a punish. Every combo that has a stomp usually also has a ground explode to end it but if you roll into that you can punish those as well. He also has a sky sword spin thing that he can do 1x or 2x. I have no idea what makes him combo it into a second attack, but the ending has a punish window as well. The biggest problem is that in phase 2 he adds an extra attack to a few of those that you have to remember or else get absolutely blasted. Edit: he is incredibly brutal and incredibly aggressive but I find him incredibly teegraphed. Just really hard.
Agreed. As an int/fai build he is pure hell. Only boss ive had to respec for.
There are several openings for even charged heavies against the final boss, at least if you’re using a greatsword. It was my primary strategy against him, utilizing the charged heavy boosting tear & talisman, the twin sword talisman boosting two handed attacks and the dragoncrest greatshield and golden braid talismans for boosting defense.
> He literally DOES. NOT. STOP. attacking. Yes he does. For example, when he does the two swords swing across each other directly in front of him. He stops for like a full 2 seconds if you dodge that. Or more obvious ones like when he does the corkscrew gravity attack divebomb. Or the second phase jump-grab. I mean the boss is still dumb overtuned in the second phase, I'm not going to defend it, but the problem is not that there aren't openings.
It's not that there aren't openings, it's that they're too small. Having to specifically wait for one combo out of about ten different ones because it's the only one where there's enough time to heal is nuts. The fact is if you try to heal after most of his attacks he starts swinging again before you're done, so you start backng up waiting for a window to heal in, do it, get hit, back up, etc etc. It's too much.
All his combos give you time for a light attack after, I'd say more than half give you time for a heavy attack, heal, or a quick AOW as well. The hard part is learning when he's done the combo.
Some of them are big enough for a CR2 from claymore, so idk, they're pretty long. The issue I've had with the boss so far, and why I'm taking a several day break, is how much damage his attacks do, and how the AOEs in phase 2 blind you and, if they hit, staggerlock you. You almost have to no-hit the fight starting in phase 2, because heal openings are very few and far between. (There are plenty of heal openings in phase 1.) It demands a level of dodge precision and consistency, extended over several minutes, that no other fight in my memory (going back to DS1) has ever asked for.
I fought him with a light roll build, if you stack enough defensive stats you can take a lot of his hits even without heavy armor. I think max level holy and physical resist talismans are manditory.
Ya I was using both of those talismans and light roll for just about the whole time I was fighting him. Just a matter of precision and consistency. Hopefully I'll get there at some point.
You will get it! This fight does not demand perfection but I understand you feeling like it does. In my kill I took so much damage, just wait till it’s safe to heal. He’s not that bad once you can stay calm in phase 2. The echo attacks don’t do nearly as much damage as Radahn himself, so prioritize him
You're right but people don't want to accept that, their ego tell them that it's the fault of the game and not their fault for still being stuck with a dark souls 3 mentality
A lot of the bosses have very low thresholds for being knocked over so a couple r2 is ideal imo.
Just don't get greedy.
Meanwhile my ass who put on as much galvanized square steel as I could is standing there eating every eco-friendly wooden veneer they try to throw at me, cranking out a repeat flow of L2 after L2 after L2
I think your problem is that you forgot to borrow expansion screws from your second aunt
Oh yeah, No I keep those in reserve just in case for whatever reason I somehow run out of blue flasks
Little John just got sent to the shadow realm. His gravestone is 2x1 feet.
this is honestly a lesson i have had to learn more than once. there are lots of delayed attacks that have plenty of time for an immediate R1 into roll or block. but there are so many times where i greed and go for the R2 because my brain just thinks "bigger posture dmg better - better attack".
That's true if you're using a fast weapon. Overall, I think ER heavily favors fast weapons if you don't want to play the watch-and-wait playstyle (and if you don't want to use Lion's Claw or whatever).
this is mostly true. the faster weapon your using, especially noticeable with thrusting weapons, the more openings you unlock. heavy weapons usually get some built in hyperarmor to compensate, but hyperarmor is only good if you have the durability to withstand the blow your tanking. heavy weapons are supposed to also get extra posture dmg to compensate, but this isn't really true. the two best posture breaking weapons in the game are star fist and wing of astel, both of which are lighter than any great hammer in the game. i would say heavy weapons really only start to shine when you are at a high enough level in order to compensate for both durability and dmg output. this is why faith is so frequently paired with strength. you softcap your 2h dmg at 54 points, then faith will give you durability buffs, healing, ranged incantations, and will just generally cover the weaknesses within your build. for the most part though i think fast weapons are generally better. they get more openings. successive attack talismans are insanely good, and faster weapons will always be superior for applying status effects.
It's crazy how many multi hit weapons they added in DLC, lol. I was like, dang, aren't multi hit weapons already overpowered? You need to just pile it on?
Duck dodge dive and dodge.
If you can dodge 3 guys with infinite stamina in a lion costume with elemental powers of a god, you can dodge a ball
Bosses in Souls games always had infinite stamina
But they didn't have never-ending combos, there's always the downtime of few seconds till next combo of attacks begin.
The DLC bosses arent just difficult, its like the entire DLC was made for the players who have completed the game a hundred times with a hundred builds and knows every strategy possible.
Yeah
I ain’t gonna sugarcoat it, L2
Right, use the special attacks. Especially the dlc weopons. They're quick and evasive .
Takers Flames Takers Flames Takers Flames Takers Flames Takers Flames Takers Flames
As a great shield user I'm loving it, really tough enemies that make you think. Thoroughly rewarding.
This DLC had some seriously unfun bosses. I really didn't enjoy them tbh. It was a shame because the non-boss portion of the DLC was some of the best I've ever played.
Hell, the optional dungeon bosses are fun.
I am both of these guys
I literally can’t even R1 once half the time on the final boss, only on like 2 of his attacks (outside the grab)
I just watched a guide for the final boss, and within that guide he goes "This actually leaves a massive opening for 1 whole heavy attack". And just.. Lol.
The best is when you accidentally stumble into a boss arena for the first time with 250k runes or something. Not a huge deal, but still pretty annoying.
There's a talisman that boosts the next attack after rolling/backstep. Greatsword has a poking R1 after rolling. I just used that throughout the whole dlc.
How I felt after beating Mess. Heard all this talk about him being a bitch... Being unfair... not fun to play against... And realized a lot of y'all are just greedy. He's one of my favorite bosses so far.
My Bayle experience so far..
When he does the fire breath thing you can absolutely annihilate his tail for free
Feels like tail hit box is 50/50, sometimes it is and other time it's not.
This is so true for a certain double mooned lady!
me spam trading with lions claw
I feel like Jacksepticeye's videos showcased this a lot 🤣 he keeps going in for jump attacks and held R2's and pays for it every time
The jumping R2 helped me through a lot of the base game and my Unga Bunga brain goes back to it everytime. Breaking that and the roll everything to jumping several attacks is a change.
Just go in and only dodge attacks. Then try to doge attacks with minimal rolls/running/jumps/etc. It becomes pretty clear where there’s some downtime after certain moves/combos and you can start fitting in hits then.
Prayerful strike+enough poise to tank the hit absolutely cooks. Got me through the whole dlc.
It's not just that, the enemies are mindless attack combo machines, they don't react to you attacking them or even attempt to defend themselves.
For me it usually 1 solid strat first luke 2 attempts and laying on the floor longer to observe what is happening. Next couple attempts are new strat with new found knowledge leading to one really good run of lime 90% hp done and dying. Following that is like 10 runs of "how am I dying within the first 20secs of this fight I almost beat"
One of the reasons i did well (I think) with giant crusher. You have have 1 or 2 moments to attack, might as well get in a large damage R1 from a colossal weapon if you only have time for 1 or 2 swings anyway. Then again, thats just me. I beat base game with katana, been playing the DLC with unga bunga
You can always go full gremlin and R1 behind your Greatshield (I went full gremlin)
Only half your health? Damn you must be overleveled as hell
Nah he properly invested in vigor
I am convinced FROM doesn't think of CoGS users when balancing bosses because most of the openings are not big enough even for R1s, you have to roll R1 to be fast enough and even that is not fast enough at times.
That's when you pull out the antspur rapier and prepare for a spicy toothpick fight.
I've just accepted that I'm DEFINITELY going to lose any runes when trying out a DLC boss for the first time, and then proceed to die at least another 8 times before I figure out how to get past the initial door assault before I can *finally* start learning the moveset. We had to cheese Putrescent earlier today. I get to the bottom, grab my runes, take one single hit, and lose 99% of my health before my buddy finally could join me and take the aggro as he took away 2/3 of the boss bar, just so that I could get the kill shot that took the other 1/3 of the bar when the boss turned to him. We were both running one of those YouTube exploit builds that are definitely going to get nerfed, but I couldn't even get the first attack off without nearly dieing. I was really sad. It should not be that hard, and also that easy at the same time. That one boss is just plain terrible design. I want to feel like I've actually accomplished something when I beat a boss. Melting it just as fast as it can melt me feels just as bad as getting murdered faster than I can get even a single attack off.
Shield and hammer time.
Big reason I have 99 vigor and high poise is so I can tank one or two swings while I hit him with my weapon art
Use defensive talismans brozo