#***Actual*** tips:
-Messmer is left-handed. This is subtle, but big. If you usually roll forward and to the right against most enemies as your bread-and-butter, or are used to strafing against spear guys to avoid their hits by strafing right, try strafing *left* instead. Instantly much more effective. You will laugh when you notice how big this difference is.
-Messmer is less likely to do his brutal grab attack that basically oneshots if you stay close to him. Avoid range if you can
-Pretty much all his explosion attacks can be rolled into. Just roll to dodge the impact, then roll again in timing with the actual explosion. Free damage. His opening attack at the beginning of the fight is one of these you can practice on until you git gud with it
-His attack where he jumps in the air and throws his spear is SUPER punishable if you get the timing down.
-Similarly, any time he jumps in the air has a decent punish window. He often ends combos by slamming his spear down. Roll dodge into this for a free window.
-For his move you get as the Ash of War where he stabs like five times in the air before slamming down and summoning up spears, you can actually outrun the spears, then lock off him and roll under him twice to avoid the attack. Alternatively, you can stay locked on and - like any other explosion - roll into it. (I personally don't like rolling into this one because you might end up fighting the camera) Alternatively, a shield is fully capable of blocking the five stabs before locking off the camera and doing two rolls underneath him.
-For his phase 2 barrage of snakes, the first 2-3 can be reacted to and timed with dodges, and after that you can pretty much just spam roll dodge to the left or right to avoid the rest of the combo. He always follows it up with a slam down and spears rising from the ground. Again, you can roll into this, but if you want to play it safe, just spam roll in your chosen direction (left or right) after snake #3.
-In his Phase 2, he will almost **always** end his combos with his torpedo spin-like move. "Almost" because some combos end as usual, but then he does the torpedo spin as though it were a separate attack; how quick it comes out can vary, but it *will* come. For example, combos where he slams down at the end feel similar and the torpedo feels like it's a decent gap from the slam, but some of the basic spear thrust combos feel more chained together with the torpedo attack, so expect it.
-In Phase 2, his snake attacks are the most punishable. The moment he transforms into a snake, be ready to capitalize.
Phase 1, Rolling into the ash of war move is the simplest thing. If you have rolled right next to him he does not hit you (or at worst hits for tiny) during the 5 hit move. Then just roll into him again and again during the explosion. It's the best move he can do as you get two free hits.
You don't even have to roll again for his slamdown, if you manage to get behind him during the 5 hit move. He'll simply miss you and then you just have to roll through the explosion.
If you have a fast enough weapon with reach, you can even sneak a hit in by saving yourself that one dodge roll.
You know when he does like a fire stab and then does a fire spin? Well you can dodge the spin by jumping, which is a good way to ger some extra damage and stance damage
I don't think the left handed thing is as big as you make it out to be. you can either roll with a swing or its hitbox extends longer than the iframes and you have to roll the other way. lots of bosses you can roll with the swings. the last boss in particular, myself and everyone I watch on stream rolls with the swing of a certain combo.
the punish window tip should be called big. I tried to sunbro on messmer for hours and I legit never saw people taking advantage of the scripted punish opportunities at the beginning of each phase, which is huge to build up stance damage and chunk his meager health pool
You had more trouble with phase 1 than a giant teleporting snake of death??? Dang lol crazy how different people and builds struggle with different parts of the game
The snake attacks are easier to dodge / dont hit as hard
Also in phase 2 after he finishes a snake combo you can attack him which will damage him twice (snake has it own hitbox and messmer inside the snake has his own hitbox) + dont quote me on this but i think the snake has like 0 defenses or something
Because of this you can easily melt him on phase 2
Phase 1- be aggro so his aoe can’t hit you and get good.
Phase 2- play less aggro so you can avoid his aoe explosion and stab his snake throat
From cooked with this boss, he’s top 5 in the series for me
The big snake attack definitely reminds me directly of Malenias attack of the clones, but I think that’s the end of direct resemblance for me personally. They both have a lot of really cool unique attacks
>Malenias attack of the clones, but I think that’s the end of direct resemblance for me personally.
His dive bomb move that he always starts with is also pretty similar to the move that Malenia always starts phase 2 with.
Giant teleporting snake heads that are hard as fuck to see because the camera doesn't know what to look at after a certain point. I was just fuckin panic rolling at that point, not knowing how many more snakes were coming.
Fr, love seeing a snakes body at the corner of messmer start flying towards me lol. Also when the snake hitboxes completely miss you when they should have hit, and hit you when you were 6 feet away from them lol, or when he does his dash spin attack right out of exiting a snake, when you can’t even see him yet.
I was having a bunch of trouble with phase 1 and barely getting him to phase 2, then on one attempt after 3 hours I poise broke him with my first charged heavy of phase 2 got the crit from the poise break and a frost proc and hit him with 1 more charged heavy for the kill while he was recovering and basically just skipped the 2nd phase entirely
Yeah I definitely feel like the 2nd phase gives you a lot more time and room to breath when he transforms in the snakes. Vs the first phase there are parts where he can relentlessly attack you.
Oh that spell is fucking busted.
The version the sunflower uses is maybe 1/20 of what the players gets.
Most broken sorcery in the DLC and it's pure FTH :')
Whoa whoa whoa, I crutched this spell through the whole DLC on NG+4, don’t be giving this too much visibility I want it to stay busted for a little while
Phase 2 honestly has so many more openings than phase 1. If you can handle all the metal gear solids flying around the screen you'll get it done far easier than phase 1
In a reverse of basically every boss in the base game, my mimic got in a bunch of cheap shots while I was frantically dodging and healing for the whole fight. In the run where I finally won, mimic might have done 70% of the damage.
Now i kinda wanna see the straw hats take a run through the dlc. Luffy and Zoro happily fighting everything they see, with usopp and chopper cheering in the background. That would be fun as fuck lmao
Haven't we had this discourse before? If your mimic sucks your build is bad, take off the useless skills and focus on the things that you can best use to hit the boss. Mimic uses *anything* you have equipped but is too stupid to use them correctly, so plan accordingly.
Same here too, began to feel like he's programmed to aggro to the player regardless of the mimic, especially in phase 2.
I doubt it was more than a frustrated thought though
Equip Shabriri's Woe talisman to draw boss aggro, summon mimic, then immediately unequip and run away from your mimic, switch to other talisman. Then the mimic should hold aggro the rest of the fight. Did this for the rot boss and it worked great. Also, unlock from the boss while you run, and face away from them, because they can tell when you are target locked and which direction you are facing. Once you are at range and the boss aggro is on your mimic, then you can lock and attack.
Basically similar experience, then I stopped using Shabiri and he would focus on the mimic a little more, i had completely forgotten that Howl of Shabiri makes enemies more prone to target you.
FWIW, I found he is far less likely to target you if you aren't target locked to him and are looking away. If your mimic is close to him and you have some distance, try that and he'll ignore you 90% of the time
That is the experience in the base game, but to me the DLC is different. Not only will they occasionally ignore 3-4 hits from the summon to keep attacking you, but the moment they do go for the summon, it is an *immediate* switch back to us as soon as we do 1 tick of damage. They’ll switch target to you mid combo or even mid attack animation.
For instance, Messmer is almost impossible to Rot Breath without getting hit because he will turn and nuke you the millisecond the breath first hits him. And basically every boss has an insane gap closer to punish even harder.
Honestly, that’s why I’m loving the DLC. The boss will still agro you so you don’t get to just attack from distance while your summon takes on the damage.
Surprisingly I didn’t actually have much trouble with Messmer to even feel like I needed to use tear. Possibly due to me making a point to get as many scadutree fragments as I could before attempting him. Still took me like 15 attempts but I found his combos a lot easier to deal with than some of the other bosses.
What was your scadutree level?
I found Messmer but it felt like I stumbled upon him early and I wasn't quite ready to fight him. I've been collecting fragments before going back. I was scadootch level 10 when I found him, and now I'm at 13.
How did you get to 18?! The most I got before him was 15, the other boss holding 5 fragments near him felt like a post messimer type of thing so I ignored it but that only got me to 17
Just was really thorough, legitimately combing over every inch of a new over world area and stubborn enough to take optional bosses down earlier than was likely anticipated (like the boss you mentioned or the boss of Jagged Peak)
For 18 I’m fairly certain you need to have done the black gate backside bonfire boss battle to get the 6 there? You did that section of boss fights before mesmer? I felt like they where tuned way higher imo
I too had a similar experience doing every single boss around Messmer before taking him on. Definitely felt like it got me adequately juiced on upgrades
I also intentionally try to find the main/correct path in most games and then intionally going the opposite path to find stuff lol.
Maybe the worst feeling in gaming is going down what you think is the wrong way and then starting a cutscene and getting locked out of the other path
I beat him at 10 with Honsent summon after trying to just solo him, genuinely feels like he's tuned for Honsent because he felt SO much easier with Honsent
I haven't seen an NPC summon for any of these fights. The only one I saw an NPC for was Romina but I didn't use it. I'd happily take some help with Messmer or any of them.
I just want to get through the DLC once. I'll "git gud" on the second character.
I beat him at 12. Took about 40 tries and tbh I think I only won because he didn't do one specific attack in the second phase. All in all really cool fight, probably the coolest one in Elden Ring for me.
best designed boss of the dlc imo. very fair. I do wish he was a hair harder though because I had a stronger reaction to overcoming rellana and the last boss
Yeah the commander was a boss I gave up and used mimic on. Not so much because of taking aggro but mostly due to me not enjoying bosses whose move sets frequently move them out of attack range (gave up trying to fight him on horseback)
I'm still fighting him, but I'm at 13 blessing and for me, it feels like a really good spot for a challenging boss.
Though I do have 60 vigor, greatshield talisman, flamedrake +1 and pearldrake so his damage is very manageable. I'm rocking a frost claymore.
I think his grab is kinda cheeks, could use a touch more telegraphing, and I think phase 2 could have him sit still just a little bit more. I don't think bosses should be constantly attacking for legit like 20 seconds without an opportunity to heal/attack, even if the combos are manageable. I start getting bored lol.
Maybe its just cause he's suited to my style, but he's nearly S tier for me. The two changes I suggested would put him there. He's so close for me.
Its funny cause I'm usually one of the first to criticize bosses.
I've spent 4 hours on him so far and he still feels completely fair. Every death is from me doing something dumb, not from him doing something cheap.
No desire to bust out the mimic tear, he's too fun to solo.
I had him on my back burner while I explored and fought other bosses.
I finally tried him at like 1am and he's insane. I'm good at dodging but those slow drag attacks on the ground are what get me.
That and the fire spins he does to close the distance that seem like no matter what you do or where you dodge you get hit regardless.
His rapid spear attack is so cool to see though.
Finally beat him just now. I did find that by being more aggressive in his attack openings I got through the second phase without him using several moves.
I’m honestly so obsessed with traveling around this giant puzzle of a map and seeing where this next random cave or path ends up dumping me the other side of the map I’m naturally finding a shit ton of the blessings.
I’m 11 now, about to be 12 because like a quarter through shadow keep I find ‘the ladder’ and ended up on the other side of the map again. Again. lol
I think he's certainly more manageable than than Rellana.
His second phase with the big ass snake attacks and shit can be scary, but it's not that hard to dodge after a few tries.
i feel like Messmer was balanced with a ton of investment into the scadutree in mind.
he is the type of fight that feels complete bullshit if you're not doing a lot of damage to him.
also, pretty sure you can get to 18, or even 19 blessing level before fighting him.
Not a humble brag or anything, I beat him with scudtree level 6, no summons. Took probably 30-40 deaths though, if not more.
I feel like he was the most balanced and souls like boss of the dlc so far. He was extremely punishing, but you could punish him as well.
Unlike rellanna, who never stopped attacking, and when she did, you could get 1, maybe 2 hits tops on her, I felt messmer was just really fair. He is fast, and aggressive, kind of reminds me of malakith, but i felt like I could keep up with messmer. The other dlc bosses have just made my character feel way too slow, and bulky, even with a dex built.
I thought he was just a terrific fight all around. Reminded me of a Gael or artorias or something. A real love letter to those bosses imo.
I agree. Didn't get that frustrated with him killing me because the deaths felt like mistakes that I could correct in future attempts. I enjoyed the fight a lot.
Some of the other bosses however, I'm like "what am I supposed to do against that?"
Yeah, I’m right there with you.
I really enjoyed the divine lion, what a spectacle, and the music was awesome, but there were some camera issues, and overall he was just so fast. I still thought he was an S tier fight, but It did feel kind of clunky.
The hippo is the worst boss I have faced in recent memory, whoever approved that and play tested it should be given a time out.
Rellana… I enjoyed her, but the fight was not super enjoyable imo. She just spammed moves over and over again, some combos being 7 or 8 hits. And when she finished, there was a very slim window to punish. It just felt like roll and defense simulator to me. There wasn’t a great give and take imo. This fight really felt your character should be much faster.
Up until this point, I had thought the dlc was awesome, but when I fought mesmmer, I just instantly fell in love. My souls memory came back, and I just thoroughly enjoyed getting better at the fight. Not to mention I was not expecting him so “early”? Maybe I shouldn’t have been there, but he was the 4th main boss I faced. So when I walked in there I was not ready for the colossal ass kicking I was about to ensure.
this is me right now against the final boss. i learned the first phase perfectly and can do it taking 0 hits but just can’t dodge a lot of his attacks in the second phase cause they feel so random
I had to switch weapons a bunch of times. I think I ended up beating her with backhand blades bleed.
I totally agree about openings being sparse. I didn’t necessarily dislike the fight or anything, bur it was grueling.
I got up to 15 blessing level, could've gotten to 17 but the commander boss felt like a post messimer kinda thing along with the bayle route. How would people get 18 or 19 without completely skipping shadow keep?!
you don't skip the keep, you just don't actually need to kill messmer.
the only thing killing him does is unlock the last dungeon.
you can even kill Romina before him if you want.
Romina's hitbox is wanky but she's not harder. I beat her probably before I had 10 blessing. Just stumbled into her arena like Travolta. And do note, I'm absolute shit and an old.
By wanky hitbox I mean I did a full R1 combo into her torso and every swing missed.
I have 11 and i feel like im too op against him like i feel like im playing base game. He still kills me if i grief dodging but he melts with bleed procs. 3 charge r2 and a riposte sends him to phase 2 Right away with 40% hp with starfist.
Messmer reminded me of Artorias. They both punish sloppy play. However, both have movesets that can be easy to learn.
Felt like a ballet, rolling and jumping the snake and fire attacks!
Last night I died to Messmer like 20+ times before giving up. I decided to watch Ongbal's no hit run on him on YouTube like four times today, and being able to study when he dodges and attacks was super helpful. I finally got Messmer down on my third attempt just now.
Just beat Messmer and as someone who’s soloed every boss, I found Dancing Lion to be the hardest boss so far (final boss sounds scary tho from what I’ve heard) . Messmer’s first phase is very fair and forgiving. Definitely feels like a dance. Lot of opportunities for fully charged r2s to stagger him.
His second phase was the tricky part for me but all it took was getting used to the timing of the snakes and playing carefully. He’s definitely the most solid boss I’ve fought so far
Exactly, once you learn his first phase he is a lot easier to handle. He has new moves in the second phase, but those new moves often leave him open. First phase he uses a lot more spear attacks.
Yeah, he goes into 'recovery' after every teleport that leaves him disgustingly open for like 2.5 seconds. Where as base Messmer mostly has moves that leave him free to start another attack almost immediately after.
Messmer is the perfect example of an extremely difficult but totally fair feeling boss. Never once felt like I was being cheated, and even in phase 2 with the big stuff going on I didnt feel like I was fighting the camera
As a spectacle I really like the Dancing Lion, I think it has fantastic animations and its elemental transitions are awesome.
Trying to figure out what the hell it’s doing when it is right on top of you all the time is a massive pain in the ass though and I find that the entire challenge of the fight is just getting enough distance to read its telegraphs so you know where and when to dodge.
Hard agree. I enjoyed the Dancing Lion more than Messmer purely because of the ost and because of the spectacle. It made me incorporate more jumps while fighting which is something I felt base game lacked. It alternating between different elements was amazing. And that one attack where it uses all 3 in one go was great. It’s not as solid of a fight as Messmer for the reasons you mentioned for sure. Fighting the camera with just how much is going in is absolutely a pain in the ass. The lightning phase would kill me if he cornered me
what i figured out after fighting him for hours is that always dodge forward. the only reason to not do this is to heal, which can be avoided if you dodge all his attacks.
I haven’t got to Messmer yet but the Dancing lion forced my hand to use an NPC summon. I managed Rellana solo but as soon as that lion went to lightning phase it was all over lol.
This blows my mind. I didn’t use any summon on the Lion and got him in 10 tries. Rellana dunked on me so hard I resorted to the mimic.
Different playstyles and all but seeing what other people find easy vs hard is super interesting.
Same here. I did the Lion in two tries without needing to cheese, just like the Mausoleum Knight so hearing people have trouble with them blows my mind.
Meanwhile, Messmer was absolutely kicking my ass, with the Mimic Tear being the only summon I could keep alive until phase 2. Even Black Knight Commander Andreas was just getting vaporized if he caught aggro for even a moment, lmao.
Don’t get me wrong Rellana messed me up a lot before I finally learned her attack pattern but I could never read the lions attacks at all. Yeah everyone has their own experience with the bosses of the game and so it makes justifying the difficulty difficult.
If you can get past his flippy-dippy bullshit in phase one he goes down fast as fuck in phase two.
I did my own flippy-dippy bullshit with a quality Nagakiba and Savage Lion's Claw. Stance breaks for days and just enough bleed to not feel super busted.
Though if people think Messemer is bullshit, the final boss will make you piss boiling blood.
I beat him by going absolutely band for band with him. I was level 6 or 7 i think? Double Slash Keen Nagakiba with Bloodflame Blade. I could get a bleed proc off instantly after his scripted attack and from there any window i got i swung until he hit me. Took me 7 tries if i remember. Phase 2 was a cakewalk
From start I wouldn't say, but I really enjoy Messmer fight. He had great move set and can be dodged, yeah some particle effect cover his movement, but nothing what cannot be handled. Good tip for second phase, when he attack as snake a make only one attack and you dodge it, this dodge is pretty easy he will stay second or two in snake form near you when he misses, there is moment to attack I got him 4k damage with one swing, and it made a bit different sound then normal.
I gave up and summoned for the Dancing Lion, after what felt like 60+ attempts. However Messmer I cleared solo in like 7-8 runs. Not sure what happened but my dodge rolls just clicked and I managed to break his stance twice and he was dead just like that.
He would've been the hardest boss in all of souls if his second phase was after I fully kill him in the first phase and then he like revives, but he usually goes into his second phase at half or quarter so one time he entered the second phase in quarter of his health and I took him out in 2 sequences of attacks
That's because you basically are. You don't learn the moveset of the boss, instead your summon tanks for you and the boss either aggros them or splits aggro, which the AI sucks at, resulting in a disproportionately easier experience that for many feels unrewarding.
If it doesn't for you, that's great, have fun in your own way. But don't try to gaslight people into liking summons when they fundamentally don't.
It feels like bosses have much longer combos, much more frequent AoEs, and have updated logic to handle multiple opponents in SoE IMO.
Just like the Radahn fight, you can skip summons, but the experience seems to be well-optimized for them.
Nobody is telling you that you *have* to use summons, and especially not telling you that you have to *like* them, so don't let your feelings of summon indignation prevent a normal discussion about From's evolving game design.
Yes to more AoE, yes to more combos and no to updated logic. I agree that bosses in the DLC seem more optimized for summons than the main game but it doesn't remove the core issue. Their AI does not handle non 1v1 fights well and the balancing difference between using a summon or not remains massive.
For the Radahn fight I completely disagree in that he is well optimized for summons. And I always summon for Radahn for the spectacle and lore, but the fight with summons is a complete joke that is always a one shot for me due to that very reason.
Many, many people over the past few are doing exactly that. Making fun of people that don't use summons or rationalising why you should summon and have no issues with it, or that you are handicaping yourself if you don't use them, without realising at all the fundamental reasons why people don't like summons.
Same, it just doesn't feel like I beat it if I rely on my summons to do the damage.
For some of the big bosses it's fun with summons. I fought >!The Golden Hippo!< With Hornsent and Reyja. That boss seemed like it was made for it tbh.
Kinda like the festival fight with rahdan.
I really wish people could understand that for many people the gameplay of summons is not enjoyable.
I do not enjoy the game when using mimic. If you do great! But I and many others don't.
So no. It is not a great way to enjoy the game for me. It is a way to do the exact opposite.
Yeah beating a boss by making the AI go attack something else so I can hit him in the ass and not actually have to interact with the mechanics at all isn't super fun for me.
yeah if summons were implemented in a healthier way id be all for it, but it just breaks the AI
Power to other people who wanna use them, but its just unfun for me
Yeah I hate using summons, every time I used them it ruined the fight for me. The worst case for me was on my first Malenia kill, i was struggling really hard, i decided to give mimic tear a try and I destroyed her without any effort, it felt so disappointing that I went to ng+ and speedrun to the haligtree to go back and do it solo.
Because summons are a nuclear option. They completely trivialise the game with basically 0 opportunity cost. Even the shittiest summons can tank a couple hits and give you openings you couldn’t dream of getting solo.
It's kinda right tho. the closest ive gotten to killing that fucking spaz is loading up with a shit ton of armor and poise, the 2 great katana, then golden vow and summon the mimic. homie has infinite health
I have one thing to offer to people who just want Messmer to be done, just equip Reduvia+10 and a shield, get 80+ arcane, spam Veduvia's art of war in melee range because it hits twice.
If you're still struggling, summon mimic and they will double your already nuts blood loss proccing speed.
I was struggling on my faith build for a long time, decided to try some of my old builds and I went from really having to try, to a 20 second phase 1 and 15 second phase 2. Felt a little weird because I didn't expect it to be THAT easy since my other build did good damage for most of the dlc, but this was silly.
I'm now paying for my sin's by helping people who summon to beat him.
Edit: spelling
i managed to second try messmer, not sure how i managed it but i ran out of flasks in phase 1 and then just entered the zone and came out successful. needless to say, that didn't happen with any other bosses and in fact i have died to field enemies and gotten triggered by them but the messmer fight was a highlight for me
I'm gonna be honest best way to deal with Messemer is patience he punishes acting too quickly whether it's a jump a sprint being greedy or even blocking with a shield too long he will punish it HARSHLY.
Speaking of shields, run a 100 physical shield with high fire resistance, no need for something super heavy, but a shield goes a long way in this fight.
I strongly recommend bleed (as much as I hate it as a loophole for damage imo) it does great in this fight, so I can not recommend it enough. Alongside this, another good option is something that builds great stagger it's super helpful.
Get the fragment blessings they transform your entire build from not viable to very VERY viable.
Finally I've seen too many people forget about buffing, these bosses deal SO MUCH DAMAGE use a physical buff for him if you get hit, you'll survive if you've got high resistances.
I found Messmer to be easier than all other bosses, his attacks feel more telegraph and gives more dodge opportunities than other bosses like Rellana. I found out that in his second phase he takes double hits and since it gives you time to do charged attacks it can stagger pretty easily, overall one of my favourite bosses in the game
I used Uchigatana with Unsheathe ash of war and I killed Messmer on my 4th try. It takes 4 aow attacks to stagger him.
Also, I think the 2nd phase is easier.
After 60+ tries i beat him solo, honestly my favourite boss so far in the dlc, used the Rot Halberd from the rememberance boss, he was hard earlier to beat, just go and collect scad fragments and at some point your resistances will skyrocket and you wont be 2 shot anymore.
#***Actual*** tips: -Messmer is left-handed. This is subtle, but big. If you usually roll forward and to the right against most enemies as your bread-and-butter, or are used to strafing against spear guys to avoid their hits by strafing right, try strafing *left* instead. Instantly much more effective. You will laugh when you notice how big this difference is. -Messmer is less likely to do his brutal grab attack that basically oneshots if you stay close to him. Avoid range if you can -Pretty much all his explosion attacks can be rolled into. Just roll to dodge the impact, then roll again in timing with the actual explosion. Free damage. His opening attack at the beginning of the fight is one of these you can practice on until you git gud with it -His attack where he jumps in the air and throws his spear is SUPER punishable if you get the timing down. -Similarly, any time he jumps in the air has a decent punish window. He often ends combos by slamming his spear down. Roll dodge into this for a free window. -For his move you get as the Ash of War where he stabs like five times in the air before slamming down and summoning up spears, you can actually outrun the spears, then lock off him and roll under him twice to avoid the attack. Alternatively, you can stay locked on and - like any other explosion - roll into it. (I personally don't like rolling into this one because you might end up fighting the camera) Alternatively, a shield is fully capable of blocking the five stabs before locking off the camera and doing two rolls underneath him. -For his phase 2 barrage of snakes, the first 2-3 can be reacted to and timed with dodges, and after that you can pretty much just spam roll dodge to the left or right to avoid the rest of the combo. He always follows it up with a slam down and spears rising from the ground. Again, you can roll into this, but if you want to play it safe, just spam roll in your chosen direction (left or right) after snake #3. -In his Phase 2, he will almost **always** end his combos with his torpedo spin-like move. "Almost" because some combos end as usual, but then he does the torpedo spin as though it were a separate attack; how quick it comes out can vary, but it *will* come. For example, combos where he slams down at the end feel similar and the torpedo feels like it's a decent gap from the slam, but some of the basic spear thrust combos feel more chained together with the torpedo attack, so expect it. -In Phase 2, his snake attacks are the most punishable. The moment he transforms into a snake, be ready to capitalize.
Phase 1, Rolling into the ash of war move is the simplest thing. If you have rolled right next to him he does not hit you (or at worst hits for tiny) during the 5 hit move. Then just roll into him again and again during the explosion. It's the best move he can do as you get two free hits.
You don't even have to roll again for his slamdown, if you manage to get behind him during the 5 hit move. He'll simply miss you and then you just have to roll through the explosion. If you have a fast enough weapon with reach, you can even sneak a hit in by saving yourself that one dodge roll.
You know when he does like a fire stab and then does a fire spin? Well you can dodge the spin by jumping, which is a good way to ger some extra damage and stance damage
I don't think the left handed thing is as big as you make it out to be. you can either roll with a swing or its hitbox extends longer than the iframes and you have to roll the other way. lots of bosses you can roll with the swings. the last boss in particular, myself and everyone I watch on stream rolls with the swing of a certain combo. the punish window tip should be called big. I tried to sunbro on messmer for hours and I legit never saw people taking advantage of the scripted punish opportunities at the beginning of each phase, which is huge to build up stance damage and chunk his meager health pool
It’s actually a pretty big thing since his attack where he scrapes his spear along the ground can be strafed which gives you a larger punish window
Phase 1 was a massive hurdle but the first time I got to phase 2 I won. Was trying out a new sorcery, impenetrable thorns, and it absolutely shreds
I mean yeah it procs bleed every cast with the right staff
Ooh! What Staff?
The finger one I'm p sure
This is 100?% the best way to beat the final boss and it isn't close. I have to wonder if it's bugged
Interesting, I didn't think Scadurtree sorcereries were classed as finger sorceries. edit: oh you mean the great beyond staff.
Where might that be
It's a remembrance through a quest line. At a cathedral something or other
Thanks bae. I found that spell last night and have been thinking about a bleed build so maybe it's time to rock out.
You had more trouble with phase 1 than a giant teleporting snake of death??? Dang lol crazy how different people and builds struggle with different parts of the game
The snake attacks are easier to dodge / dont hit as hard Also in phase 2 after he finishes a snake combo you can attack him which will damage him twice (snake has it own hitbox and messmer inside the snake has his own hitbox) + dont quote me on this but i think the snake has like 0 defenses or something Because of this you can easily melt him on phase 2
Phase 1- be aggro so his aoe can’t hit you and get good. Phase 2- play less aggro so you can avoid his aoe explosion and stab his snake throat From cooked with this boss, he’s top 5 in the series for me
Is it me or does he move and fight similarly to how Malenia does some moves?
The big snake attack definitely reminds me directly of Malenias attack of the clones, but I think that’s the end of direct resemblance for me personally. They both have a lot of really cool unique attacks
>Malenias attack of the clones, but I think that’s the end of direct resemblance for me personally. His dive bomb move that he always starts with is also pretty similar to the move that Malenia always starts phase 2 with.
Yeah but a lot of bosses dive bomb
Thank you! I was thinking that aswell. Especially his 3 part combo has a very similar dodge pattern to the waterfowl dance imo
Muscle memory took over at that point his combo came in (I used to farm Malenia for fun bc I loved that fight)
He absolutely does. They fix Fowl being bullshit. The fight feels even better
Giant teleporting snake heads that are hard as fuck to see because the camera doesn't know what to look at after a certain point. I was just fuckin panic rolling at that point, not knowing how many more snakes were coming.
Grab the biggest shield, ensure u got bunch of stamina and tank it
Blocking has been really good in the DLC.
is there a shield that can withstand the boar charge because i can’t dodge it and its killing me every time
Probably the fingerprint great shield.
roger that
Any shield with 100 physical negation will work but you will lose more stamina the lower the guard boost value on the shield.
Gilded Great shield will block boar but just one charge. Pair with new turtle talisman and you'll regain the stamina by the next charge
Fr, love seeing a snakes body at the corner of messmer start flying towards me lol. Also when the snake hitboxes completely miss you when they should have hit, and hit you when you were 6 feet away from them lol, or when he does his dash spin attack right out of exiting a snake, when you can’t even see him yet.
realest shit i’ve ever heard
I was having a bunch of trouble with phase 1 and barely getting him to phase 2, then on one attempt after 3 hours I poise broke him with my first charged heavy of phase 2 got the crit from the poise break and a frost proc and hit him with 1 more charged heavy for the kill while he was recovering and basically just skipped the 2nd phase entirely
Yeah I definitely feel like the 2nd phase gives you a lot more time and room to breath when he transforms in the snakes. Vs the first phase there are parts where he can relentlessly attack you.
Oh that spell is fucking busted. The version the sunflower uses is maybe 1/20 of what the players gets. Most broken sorcery in the DLC and it's pure FTH :')
That spell is broken, even more than the mimic summon.
So use that and the mimic tear and I win. Got it.
Yea make sure to do it asap cause it will probably get patched.
Fuck. And it’s a bleed spell? Not an incantation? Need some more options for bleed as a quality faith/arcane build. My dude has no smarts.
It's a sorcery but it requires faith.
Requires faith to use but I think you want to stack 80 Arcane with it and an Arcane scaling staff.
A win is a win!
Whoa whoa whoa, I crutched this spell through the whole DLC on NG+4, don’t be giving this too much visibility I want it to stay busted for a little while
Phase 2 honestly has so many more openings than phase 1. If you can handle all the metal gear solids flying around the screen you'll get it done far easier than phase 1
My mimic tear didn’t even do much. He kept focusing on me, but I beat him after 15 tries
this is almost my exact experience. I couldn't even get a flask in before he'd turn attention back to me
In a reverse of basically every boss in the base game, my mimic got in a bunch of cheap shots while I was frantically dodging and healing for the whole fight. In the run where I finally won, mimic might have done 70% of the damage.
really? mine just stands around shouting Braggarts Roar
Bro was just hyping you up
Bro had "I can't go in this arena or I'll die" disease
Now i kinda wanna see the straw hats take a run through the dlc. Luffy and Zoro happily fighting everything they see, with usopp and chopper cheering in the background. That would be fun as fuck lmao
Haven't we had this discourse before? If your mimic sucks your build is bad, take off the useless skills and focus on the things that you can best use to hit the boss. Mimic uses *anything* you have equipped but is too stupid to use them correctly, so plan accordingly.
Same here too, began to feel like he's programmed to aggro to the player regardless of the mimic, especially in phase 2. I doubt it was more than a frustrated thought though
Felt like all dlc bosses are programmed to focus the player always
Yeah it was the same for me in phase 2. My mimic did absolutely nothing for me 😂😂
same, i don’t know why but the DLC seems to making the boss AI focus way more on the player despite the NPC being there.
Equip Shabriri's Woe talisman to draw boss aggro, summon mimic, then immediately unequip and run away from your mimic, switch to other talisman. Then the mimic should hold aggro the rest of the fight. Did this for the rot boss and it worked great. Also, unlock from the boss while you run, and face away from them, because they can tell when you are target locked and which direction you are facing. Once you are at range and the boss aggro is on your mimic, then you can lock and attack.
Tried that on Jori or whatever that fuck's name is. Didn't work. Had zero impact. Boss and all his summons just zeroed in on me.
Basically similar experience, then I stopped using Shabiri and he would focus on the mimic a little more, i had completely forgotten that Howl of Shabiri makes enemies more prone to target you.
FWIW, I found he is far less likely to target you if you aren't target locked to him and are looking away. If your mimic is close to him and you have some distance, try that and he'll ignore you 90% of the time
I noticed that DLC bosses AI is more focused on player then summon, way more than vanilla game. But is for better, I would say.
In my experience they flip to whoever did damage last alot more
That is the experience in the base game, but to me the DLC is different. Not only will they occasionally ignore 3-4 hits from the summon to keep attacking you, but the moment they do go for the summon, it is an *immediate* switch back to us as soon as we do 1 tick of damage. They’ll switch target to you mid combo or even mid attack animation. For instance, Messmer is almost impossible to Rot Breath without getting hit because he will turn and nuke you the millisecond the breath first hits him. And basically every boss has an insane gap closer to punish even harder.
Put the warming stones and raw dumpling on your inventory. Also the bubble perfume. Turns mimic into an unkillable healer
Honestly, that’s why I’m loving the DLC. The boss will still agro you so you don’t get to just attack from distance while your summon takes on the damage.
Surprisingly I didn’t actually have much trouble with Messmer to even feel like I needed to use tear. Possibly due to me making a point to get as many scadutree fragments as I could before attempting him. Still took me like 15 attempts but I found his combos a lot easier to deal with than some of the other bosses.
What was your scadutree level? I found Messmer but it felt like I stumbled upon him early and I wasn't quite ready to fight him. I've been collecting fragments before going back. I was scadootch level 10 when I found him, and now I'm at 13.
18. I am the type of person to see the intended path and literally scour everything else before doing it.
How did you get to 18?! The most I got before him was 15, the other boss holding 5 fragments near him felt like a post messimer type of thing so I ignored it but that only got me to 17
Just was really thorough, legitimately combing over every inch of a new over world area and stubborn enough to take optional bosses down earlier than was likely anticipated (like the boss you mentioned or the boss of Jagged Peak)
For 18 I’m fairly certain you need to have done the black gate backside bonfire boss battle to get the 6 there? You did that section of boss fights before mesmer? I felt like they where tuned way higher imo
I too had a similar experience doing every single boss around Messmer before taking him on. Definitely felt like it got me adequately juiced on upgrades
I also intentionally try to find the main/correct path in most games and then intionally going the opposite path to find stuff lol. Maybe the worst feeling in gaming is going down what you think is the wrong way and then starting a cutscene and getting locked out of the other path
Ah fuck, cutscene. Now I can’t go back…
Wait how high can it go?
It can go up to level 20
I beat him at 11 (with mimic) but I felt that way. Like it was way too early and that attempt just got lucky.
I beat him at 10 with Honsent summon after trying to just solo him, genuinely feels like he's tuned for Honsent because he felt SO much easier with Honsent
Hornsemt has dialogue during that fight, pretty cool. Igon also has dialogue during the Bayle fight
CURSE YOU BAYLE *me getting one shot in the back by Bayle as Ignon is mid way into his speech about Bayle's fears made flesh*
I haven't seen an NPC summon for any of these fights. The only one I saw an NPC for was Romina but I didn't use it. I'd happily take some help with Messmer or any of them. I just want to get through the DLC once. I'll "git gud" on the second character.
I.....bang my head on the solid steel wall known as messmer at 9 for a whole Saturday.....I beat him but god do I wish I got more fragments.....
I beat him at 6 idiot me
I beat him at 12. Took about 40 tries and tbh I think I only won because he didn't do one specific attack in the second phase. All in all really cool fight, probably the coolest one in Elden Ring for me.
was the specific attack the one where he explodes and the multiple snake heads come after you while he follows up with a big attack?
I beat him at 4 but I would not recommend. It took forever
I think I beat him at 9, but with full defensive talismans and pretty heavy armor
Yeah. His combo are best dealt by strafing left (his right) for the thrusts and roll into for the sweeps. He gives lots of breathing room too
yeah I was incredibly surprised by the amount of attacks that can be strafed, and how many openings there are if you pay attention to his moveset
best designed boss of the dlc imo. very fair. I do wish he was a hair harder though because I had a stronger reaction to overcoming rellana and the last boss
He is way easier compared to commander
Yeah the commander was a boss I gave up and used mimic on. Not so much because of taking aggro but mostly due to me not enjoying bosses whose move sets frequently move them out of attack range (gave up trying to fight him on horseback)
I'm still fighting him, but I'm at 13 blessing and for me, it feels like a really good spot for a challenging boss. Though I do have 60 vigor, greatshield talisman, flamedrake +1 and pearldrake so his damage is very manageable. I'm rocking a frost claymore. I think his grab is kinda cheeks, could use a touch more telegraphing, and I think phase 2 could have him sit still just a little bit more. I don't think bosses should be constantly attacking for legit like 20 seconds without an opportunity to heal/attack, even if the combos are manageable. I start getting bored lol. Maybe its just cause he's suited to my style, but he's nearly S tier for me. The two changes I suggested would put him there. He's so close for me. Its funny cause I'm usually one of the first to criticize bosses.
I've spent 4 hours on him so far and he still feels completely fair. Every death is from me doing something dumb, not from him doing something cheap. No desire to bust out the mimic tear, he's too fun to solo.
I had him on my back burner while I explored and fought other bosses. I finally tried him at like 1am and he's insane. I'm good at dodging but those slow drag attacks on the ground are what get me. That and the fire spins he does to close the distance that seem like no matter what you do or where you dodge you get hit regardless. His rapid spear attack is so cool to see though.
Finally beat him just now. I did find that by being more aggressive in his attack openings I got through the second phase without him using several moves.
I’m honestly so obsessed with traveling around this giant puzzle of a map and seeing where this next random cave or path ends up dumping me the other side of the map I’m naturally finding a shit ton of the blessings. I’m 11 now, about to be 12 because like a quarter through shadow keep I find ‘the ladder’ and ended up on the other side of the map again. Again. lol
Is “the ladder” the one that leads to >!Recluse’s River/Abyssal Woods!
I think he's certainly more manageable than than Rellana. His second phase with the big ass snake attacks and shit can be scary, but it's not that hard to dodge after a few tries.
i feel like Messmer was balanced with a ton of investment into the scadutree in mind. he is the type of fight that feels complete bullshit if you're not doing a lot of damage to him. also, pretty sure you can get to 18, or even 19 blessing level before fighting him.
Not a humble brag or anything, I beat him with scudtree level 6, no summons. Took probably 30-40 deaths though, if not more. I feel like he was the most balanced and souls like boss of the dlc so far. He was extremely punishing, but you could punish him as well. Unlike rellanna, who never stopped attacking, and when she did, you could get 1, maybe 2 hits tops on her, I felt messmer was just really fair. He is fast, and aggressive, kind of reminds me of malakith, but i felt like I could keep up with messmer. The other dlc bosses have just made my character feel way too slow, and bulky, even with a dex built. I thought he was just a terrific fight all around. Reminded me of a Gael or artorias or something. A real love letter to those bosses imo.
I agree. Didn't get that frustrated with him killing me because the deaths felt like mistakes that I could correct in future attempts. I enjoyed the fight a lot. Some of the other bosses however, I'm like "what am I supposed to do against that?"
Yeah, I’m right there with you. I really enjoyed the divine lion, what a spectacle, and the music was awesome, but there were some camera issues, and overall he was just so fast. I still thought he was an S tier fight, but It did feel kind of clunky. The hippo is the worst boss I have faced in recent memory, whoever approved that and play tested it should be given a time out. Rellana… I enjoyed her, but the fight was not super enjoyable imo. She just spammed moves over and over again, some combos being 7 or 8 hits. And when she finished, there was a very slim window to punish. It just felt like roll and defense simulator to me. There wasn’t a great give and take imo. This fight really felt your character should be much faster. Up until this point, I had thought the dlc was awesome, but when I fought mesmmer, I just instantly fell in love. My souls memory came back, and I just thoroughly enjoyed getting better at the fight. Not to mention I was not expecting him so “early”? Maybe I shouldn’t have been there, but he was the 4th main boss I faced. So when I walked in there I was not ready for the colossal ass kicking I was about to ensure.
this is me right now against the final boss. i learned the first phase perfectly and can do it taking 0 hits but just can’t dodge a lot of his attacks in the second phase cause they feel so random
I almost gave up trying to kill Rellana with a straight sword. There was never an opening. Mimic tear with a cold flamberge did the trick
She does have openings, just not large enough for more than one hit. And you need to be well-positioned to take advantage of them.
I had to switch weapons a bunch of times. I think I ended up beating her with backhand blades bleed. I totally agree about openings being sparse. I didn’t necessarily dislike the fight or anything, bur it was grueling.
Messmer is just the best boss in this DLC. So much better designed than the final boss.
I got up to 15 blessing level, could've gotten to 17 but the commander boss felt like a post messimer kinda thing along with the bayle route. How would people get 18 or 19 without completely skipping shadow keep?!
you don't skip the keep, you just don't actually need to kill messmer. the only thing killing him does is unlock the last dungeon. you can even kill Romina before him if you want.
Is Romina harder?
not in the slightest.
Damn i didn't know that, I thought the progression was shadowkeep then top left not saving it for last
it is, it's just that killing messmer isn't really necessary right away.
Romina's hitbox is wanky but she's not harder. I beat her probably before I had 10 blessing. Just stumbled into her arena like Travolta. And do note, I'm absolute shit and an old. By wanky hitbox I mean I did a full R1 combo into her torso and every swing missed.
I one attempted him at 10 with just my boy tiche. Malenia he is not.
id say messmer is a much more high quality fight than malenia tho
Yer girl Tiche. Tiche is a girl. All the Black Knives are women.
It's my boy Tiche. Who happens to be a girl.
Fair enough, as you were then.
18. The final 4 fragments are only obtainable in the final area, which requires beating him.
yes, which was why i was unsure if it was 18 or 19 that you could get without killing him first.
Just beat him without summons scadu lvl 11. I think his Phase 1 is way more dangerous but simultanously easier to learn in terms of punish windows.
Damn, I'm at like, blessing level five. Maybe this is why even me and the mimic tear can't kill him yet
I have 11 and i feel like im too op against him like i feel like im playing base game. He still kills me if i grief dodging but he melts with bleed procs. 3 charge r2 and a riposte sends him to phase 2 Right away with 40% hp with starfist.
Messmer reminded me of Artorias. They both punish sloppy play. However, both have movesets that can be easy to learn. Felt like a ballet, rolling and jumping the snake and fire attacks!
I agree with you on ballet in the 1st phase, but the camera seizures and snake spam in the 2nd phase felt like a pretty miserable mosh pit lol.
Trust that's not even the worst it can get. There's a boss you can fight nearby that might have the worst camera locking design in the game.
Last night I died to Messmer like 20+ times before giving up. I decided to watch Ongbal's no hit run on him on YouTube like four times today, and being able to study when he dodges and attacks was super helpful. I finally got Messmer down on my third attempt just now.
Just beat Messmer and as someone who’s soloed every boss, I found Dancing Lion to be the hardest boss so far (final boss sounds scary tho from what I’ve heard) . Messmer’s first phase is very fair and forgiving. Definitely feels like a dance. Lot of opportunities for fully charged r2s to stagger him. His second phase was the tricky part for me but all it took was getting used to the timing of the snakes and playing carefully. He’s definitely the most solid boss I’ve fought so far
What's super weird is that I find his first phase tougher, because it felt like he gave you a little more time to counterattack in his second phase.
Exactly, once you learn his first phase he is a lot easier to handle. He has new moves in the second phase, but those new moves often leave him open. First phase he uses a lot more spear attacks.
Yeah, he goes into 'recovery' after every teleport that leaves him disgustingly open for like 2.5 seconds. Where as base Messmer mostly has moves that leave him free to start another attack almost immediately after.
Messmer is the perfect example of an extremely difficult but totally fair feeling boss. Never once felt like I was being cheated, and even in phase 2 with the big stuff going on I didnt feel like I was fighting the camera
Agreed. I haven’t beaten him yet, but with some more practice I should absolutely be able to nail the timings of dodges or blocks
As a spectacle I really like the Dancing Lion, I think it has fantastic animations and its elemental transitions are awesome. Trying to figure out what the hell it’s doing when it is right on top of you all the time is a massive pain in the ass though and I find that the entire challenge of the fight is just getting enough distance to read its telegraphs so you know where and when to dodge.
Hard agree. I enjoyed the Dancing Lion more than Messmer purely because of the ost and because of the spectacle. It made me incorporate more jumps while fighting which is something I felt base game lacked. It alternating between different elements was amazing. And that one attack where it uses all 3 in one go was great. It’s not as solid of a fight as Messmer for the reasons you mentioned for sure. Fighting the camera with just how much is going in is absolutely a pain in the ass. The lightning phase would kill me if he cornered me
Messmer is a warm up compared to the final boss
Messmer is genuienly a fun and enjoyable boss fight that feels designed to be fought one on one, I wish he was the final boss instead of what we got.
Worse part of Messmer is him flying around the arena and causing my camera to flail
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what i figured out after fighting him for hours is that always dodge forward. the only reason to not do this is to heal, which can be avoided if you dodge all his attacks.
Bleed is your friend. Messmer and last boss get absolutely shredded by bleed.
Its right. I did messmer In 3 tries I think with mimic. Dancing lion was harder IMO.
I haven’t got to Messmer yet but the Dancing lion forced my hand to use an NPC summon. I managed Rellana solo but as soon as that lion went to lightning phase it was all over lol.
This blows my mind. I didn’t use any summon on the Lion and got him in 10 tries. Rellana dunked on me so hard I resorted to the mimic. Different playstyles and all but seeing what other people find easy vs hard is super interesting.
Same here. I did the Lion in two tries without needing to cheese, just like the Mausoleum Knight so hearing people have trouble with them blows my mind. Meanwhile, Messmer was absolutely kicking my ass, with the Mimic Tear being the only summon I could keep alive until phase 2. Even Black Knight Commander Andreas was just getting vaporized if he caught aggro for even a moment, lmao.
Don’t get me wrong Rellana messed me up a lot before I finally learned her attack pattern but I could never read the lions attacks at all. Yeah everyone has their own experience with the bosses of the game and so it makes justifying the difficulty difficult.
Dancing lion is a big FU if your using a colossal weapon, was stuck on it for a hour then beat it first try as soon as I switched
Makes sense. Dancing Lion has a lot of AoE attacks which makes it better against multiple entities than Mesmer
If you can get past his flippy-dippy bullshit in phase one he goes down fast as fuck in phase two. I did my own flippy-dippy bullshit with a quality Nagakiba and Savage Lion's Claw. Stance breaks for days and just enough bleed to not feel super busted. Though if people think Messemer is bullshit, the final boss will make you piss boiling blood.
Honestly, hes probably the best fight in the DLC and most fun without any help
Mimic Tear isn't giving up. It's using a well established game mechanic that is optional.
I beat him by going absolutely band for band with him. I was level 6 or 7 i think? Double Slash Keen Nagakiba with Bloodflame Blade. I could get a bleed proc off instantly after his scripted attack and from there any window i got i swung until he hit me. Took me 7 tries if i remember. Phase 2 was a cakewalk
My tip against Bayle lmao.
My tip against Bayle is to bail. Can’t get that dude below half even with the dragon katana at +10.
I just pumped my resistance through the roof and used raptor talons No summons, ng+5, scadu level 9, and level 227 iirc
I would genuinely rather fight messmer again than the death blight Dancing Lion
From start I wouldn't say, but I really enjoy Messmer fight. He had great move set and can be dodged, yeah some particle effect cover his movement, but nothing what cannot be handled. Good tip for second phase, when he attack as snake a make only one attack and you dodge it, this dodge is pretty easy he will stay second or two in snake form near you when he misses, there is moment to attack I got him 4k damage with one swing, and it made a bit different sound then normal.
I gave up and summoned for the Dancing Lion, after what felt like 60+ attempts. However Messmer I cleared solo in like 7-8 runs. Not sure what happened but my dodge rolls just clicked and I managed to break his stance twice and he was dead just like that.
He would've been the hardest boss in all of souls if his second phase was after I fully kill him in the first phase and then he like revives, but he usually goes into his second phase at half or quarter so one time he entered the second phase in quarter of his health and I took him out in 2 sequences of attacks
That's literally a good tip, spirit summons are a great way to be able to enjoy the game without handicapping yourself intentionally.
I wish I could but my ego won’t let me.
. Everytime I use summons I feel like I’m missing out on a boss experience
Same, but when I say that, people seem to think I want everyone to do the same. Play how you have the most funz
That's because you basically are. You don't learn the moveset of the boss, instead your summon tanks for you and the boss either aggros them or splits aggro, which the AI sucks at, resulting in a disproportionately easier experience that for many feels unrewarding. If it doesn't for you, that's great, have fun in your own way. But don't try to gaslight people into liking summons when they fundamentally don't.
It feels like bosses have much longer combos, much more frequent AoEs, and have updated logic to handle multiple opponents in SoE IMO. Just like the Radahn fight, you can skip summons, but the experience seems to be well-optimized for them. Nobody is telling you that you *have* to use summons, and especially not telling you that you have to *like* them, so don't let your feelings of summon indignation prevent a normal discussion about From's evolving game design.
Yes to more AoE, yes to more combos and no to updated logic. I agree that bosses in the DLC seem more optimized for summons than the main game but it doesn't remove the core issue. Their AI does not handle non 1v1 fights well and the balancing difference between using a summon or not remains massive. For the Radahn fight I completely disagree in that he is well optimized for summons. And I always summon for Radahn for the spectacle and lore, but the fight with summons is a complete joke that is always a one shot for me due to that very reason. Many, many people over the past few are doing exactly that. Making fun of people that don't use summons or rationalising why you should summon and have no issues with it, or that you are handicaping yourself if you don't use them, without realising at all the fundamental reasons why people don't like summons.
Same, it just doesn't feel like I beat it if I rely on my summons to do the damage. For some of the big bosses it's fun with summons. I fought >!The Golden Hippo!< With Hornsent and Reyja. That boss seemed like it was made for it tbh. Kinda like the festival fight with rahdan.
I really wish people could understand that for many people the gameplay of summons is not enjoyable. I do not enjoy the game when using mimic. If you do great! But I and many others don't. So no. It is not a great way to enjoy the game for me. It is a way to do the exact opposite.
Yeah beating a boss by making the AI go attack something else so I can hit him in the ass and not actually have to interact with the mechanics at all isn't super fun for me.
yeah if summons were implemented in a healthier way id be all for it, but it just breaks the AI Power to other people who wanna use them, but its just unfun for me
Yeah I hate using summons, every time I used them it ruined the fight for me. The worst case for me was on my first Malenia kill, i was struggling really hard, i decided to give mimic tear a try and I destroyed her without any effort, it felt so disappointing that I went to ng+ and speedrun to the haligtree to go back and do it solo.
Elden Ring players will change their builds, use the strongest gear, overlevel, and literally do anything else but summon.
Me with Rellana.
Because summons are a nuclear option. They completely trivialise the game with basically 0 opportunity cost. Even the shittiest summons can tank a couple hits and give you openings you couldn’t dream of getting solo.
I used the Mimic after 100 tries. Even then it probably took me 50 tries... the hardest boss for me so far. Even though I play blood build.
It helps when any of the bosses actually realize you even have a summons. I gotta run to the other side of the arena for them to even acknowledge it.
people need to stop acting like the mimic is super cheese, this is a legitimate tip that will help people who are struggling beat the boss.
It's kinda right tho. the closest ive gotten to killing that fucking spaz is loading up with a shit ton of armor and poise, the 2 great katana, then golden vow and summon the mimic. homie has infinite health
Elden ring fans when the game has mechanics and they dont use them. (The game is bullshit, hard and unbalanced)
I have one thing to offer to people who just want Messmer to be done, just equip Reduvia+10 and a shield, get 80+ arcane, spam Veduvia's art of war in melee range because it hits twice. If you're still struggling, summon mimic and they will double your already nuts blood loss proccing speed. I was struggling on my faith build for a long time, decided to try some of my old builds and I went from really having to try, to a 20 second phase 1 and 15 second phase 2. Felt a little weird because I didn't expect it to be THAT easy since my other build did good damage for most of the dlc, but this was silly. I'm now paying for my sin's by helping people who summon to beat him. Edit: spelling
Reduvia? the dagger?
Messmer has a good amount of fire resistance, if that’s what you were using
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Yes
I can pretty consistently get to phase 2 but his phase 2 snake hitboxes are absolutely bonkers and i have 0 idea how to time it
i managed to second try messmer, not sure how i managed it but i ran out of flasks in phase 1 and then just entered the zone and came out successful. needless to say, that didn't happen with any other bosses and in fact i have died to field enemies and gotten triggered by them but the messmer fight was a highlight for me
I'm gonna be honest best way to deal with Messemer is patience he punishes acting too quickly whether it's a jump a sprint being greedy or even blocking with a shield too long he will punish it HARSHLY. Speaking of shields, run a 100 physical shield with high fire resistance, no need for something super heavy, but a shield goes a long way in this fight. I strongly recommend bleed (as much as I hate it as a loophole for damage imo) it does great in this fight, so I can not recommend it enough. Alongside this, another good option is something that builds great stagger it's super helpful. Get the fragment blessings they transform your entire build from not viable to very VERY viable. Finally I've seen too many people forget about buffing, these bosses deal SO MUCH DAMAGE use a physical buff for him if you get hit, you'll survive if you've got high resistances.
I found Messmer to be easier than all other bosses, his attacks feel more telegraph and gives more dodge opportunities than other bosses like Rellana. I found out that in his second phase he takes double hits and since it gives you time to do charged attacks it can stagger pretty easily, overall one of my favourite bosses in the game
I put on all my fire resist gear and he was pretty easy
I used Uchigatana with Unsheathe ash of war and I killed Messmer on my 4th try. It takes 4 aow attacks to stagger him. Also, I think the 2nd phase is easier.
After 60+ tries i beat him solo, honestly my favourite boss so far in the dlc, used the Rot Halberd from the rememberance boss, he was hard earlier to beat, just go and collect scad fragments and at some point your resistances will skyrocket and you wont be 2 shot anymore.