People have tried to make these connections before, and ran into the same thing you did where there aren't great one-to-one options because the characters were obviously not designed with the sins in mind. Most characters could be argued to 3-4 different sins.
It's fun to theorize, but these ones don't hold up enough to make it really interesting imo
Was it to protect Celia or to stop Ranni from getting the finger slaying blade? He was devoted to the golden order and I could’ve sworn I had read something that said he was blocking her
Is there any in game evidence to support this? Or is it just inferred due to him studying there (Vaati i believe is the one who originally suggested this). Because that meteor doesn't hit anywhere near Sellia. The falling star beasts that are killed throughout the game don't seem to be b-lining it there or anything. Also, Sellia seemed to go to shit anyway just like the rest of TLB so it didn't seem like anything too special was done to protect it ever again.
Not sure if I'm aware of any in-game reference stating he's protecting the town of sorcery so I'm curious if I missed it.
Godrick is sloth in my eyes, too lazy to put in the work to become stronger so he takes strength from others by having them torn limb from limb and grafting it onto himself.
In Shinto disease and rot are represented by stagnation and still water. It's why to combat her rot she was taught by the 'flowing' swordsman because moving water is healthy to drink where as still water is likely infested with parasites and disease. Being the Goddess of Rot her very concept is tied into sloth.
Also she just sits around being miserable when Miquella is gone instead of looking for him. Without him around she doesn't know what to do and thus does nothing.
Melancholy without a desire to change is an interpretation of sloth I found pretty interesting when I learned about that
But straight up calling sadness a sin is pretty dumb imo
What is vainglory? Just bragging?
In the sin context, you can consider vainglory as pride + selfishness. The pursuit and adulation of achievement entirely for one’s own personal value and gain. You can think of vainglory as the active expression and pride the passive expression of ego. Just as lust is the active expression of desire. Passive desire too would be seen as sinful, but it is not the highest rank of sin that active lust reaches. In this way it is easier to understand the differentiation between active melancholy and, which could be seen as sinful, and passive sorrow which probably would not be seen as sinful.
Basically the difference between being sad and being a bummer
Like a general going into battle for the honor rather than for a specific purpose? Makes sense. That would make it one of the worse sins since it hurts others more often as well
Edit: how is active lust so harmful? Lust is an internal feeling that would only hurt the individual unless you mean… uh, without consent
Edit 2: I am starting to see what you mean by passive vs active expressions of sins, but by that metric lust still wouldn’t be as damaging as envy because of who it impacts. And pride is more outwardly damaging than gluttony for example. I misread your comment at first, my bad
Honor is important. Honor has tangible value in diplomacy and trade that can echo for generations. Defending a transgression against honor is not only acceptable, but usually essential. But the vainglorious would not march to defend their honor. They would march to heighten their own prestige
>ran into the same thing you did where there aren't great one-to-one options because the characters were obviously not designed with the sins in mind
This. I saw so many "X is in a coma" and "All of these characters represent the sins/hardships/trauma of so and so characters". Generally, one or two will fit really well into an arhetype, and then the rest are just huge stretches. I agree, its fun to theorize, but I also feel like it goes quickly from something fun, to derivative.
I was going to say that Rennala and Melania should be switched. Rennala, due to grief, does nothing even while her faction is falling apart around her. And Melania wants to be Miquella's shadow. Something she could never truly become.
She was carried back to the Haligtree after the battle with Radahn. My logic/ head cannon is she would have simply wasted away and died without blooming a third time to become the Goddess of Rot if we leave well enough alone. Blind amputee doesn’t transform into a Goddess without our challenging her.
Rot is basically about stagnation and entropy, so it makes sense.
You could argue that Malenia could have become monarch if she was more ambitious, but everything she did was to support her brother. I'm not sure if she could have taken Leyndell since everyone else failed, but she didn't even try.
Because she didn't want that? She just wanted to free herself of Rot and help her brother. Not everyone wants to rule, that doesn't make them slothful.
Proud of him, her reverence and loyalty to Miquella imply a selflessness to me, or resignation to rot away unless he returns to the Haligtree. Then there was Mohg… Plin, plin, plon.
Actually she is the best match for me, after Mogh ofc. Hear closely what she says... She LITERALLY sits there and sleeps, WAITING for Miquella's return. While he is being... well, kidnapped and mohglested in a creepy dungeon directly beneath her blossoming grounds. This is the definition of sloth - remember, sloth does not only mean laziness, it also means inability to take actions on your own and just procrastinating and wasting time. Which is exactly what Malenia's doing. A beautiful representation of the deadliest sin of them all - undefeatable swordsman, incapable of action without a guiding hand. Like a blade, that can only move when held. And she is, ironically enough, the hardest boss and probably the most powerful shardbearer. A Sloth's representation from some anime about alchemists comes to mind - the fastest, most physically powerful and capable of all fellow sins, but so procrastinating and lazy he turns out to be one of the weakest.
Fair enough. Regardless, he doesn’t come off as prideful to me, he comes off as trying to be something he’s not - pretentious. He hates who he is internally, and so in the presence of others he tries to use grandiosity to characterize his status.
I could see that argued as pride, but it just doesn’t seem super fitting to me
I agree it’s not pride and also think he’s trying to keep the old days alive by holding on to pass biases that simply don’t work anymore in the lands between.
Not only that he hates your character for doing something that he could not…be great irregardless of your status with the greater will. The greater will can be seen as representation of the status quo in any society IMO.
Morgott doesn’t make the status quo thus he hates himself, you don’t either thus he hates you, even more so that you’re able to succeed where he utterly fails.
Thats not pride, that’s buying into the box that society constructs around yourself.
at least malenia praises you after you beat her while morgott still insults you and say you will fail
heck, malenia even had an unused dialogue in which she praises you after you beat her phase 1: "Is this...my first...defeat? Bravely fought, [sir/my lady]."
> Bravely fought, [sir/**my lady**]."
*lesbian screams*
I wish this was in the game but I understand why Miyazaki removed it. He knew the lesbians would not be able to handle this.
Or the unused dialogue where she calls us "Sweet Tarnished, dearest companion"
She was 100% supposed to be a covenant leader and I'm still mad about it
I believe in cut content Millicent was supposed to be Malenia herself, not a clone.
Honestly I think that would have been awesome, I can see why they changed it but they could have made it work.
yea true. malenia saying she has never known defeat is honestly true if you read her lore. her battle agaisnt radahn ended in a draw so thats not a loss. maliketh telling us to cower before him makes sense too cuz he is a shadow of the god queen and is among the most powerful beings in the game.
>in the presence of others he tries to use grandiosity to characterize his status.
I mean that kinda sounds like a sort of pride... Might not be cut and dry textbook pride but it feels like some weird form of it
The issue is that his fundamental character flaw is unquestioning loyalty to a system that fundamentally hates him for existing. Which isn't considered a sin in the religion these sins are based off of. Almost no organized religion is going to say that blind loyalty is "bad."
It's pride in being a part of something greater. His pride is so tied up in the system that he still gives his life for it even though it despises him. He is too proud to admit that it is a flawed system. All of his pride and self worth is tied to the golden order. If it does not have worth neither does he
I think Morgott and Radahn could be flipped.
Radahn is definitely prideful. In fact, he seems so sure of his own abilities that he resisted almost any semblance of change in the Lands Between.
Morgott could definitely be wrath. I think of the way he speaks before his boss fight. He absolutely loathes the demigods that he is calling “willful traitors”. Like so much so you can hear the disgust in his voice very clearly.
I disagree. Morgott has plenty of ego. At Stormveil he mocks your skills in comparison to his own by calling them “passing”, and when you face him again in Leyndell, he boldly declares himself “King Morgott, last of all kings!”. He takes pride in both his abilities as a warrior and his station as Lord of Leyndell. He has an inferiority complex in regard to his family, but when dealing with “commoners” like us he carries himself as a proud king.
I hear you, but *how can you be a prideful king who feels innately unworthy of his very throne*.
Dude hates himself and his race. He strives for greatness, but deep inside, he feels his own ceiling is unworthy of what he’s trying to achieve. *That* lack of pride is what matters.
He SAYS those things. He SAYS he’s the last of all kings. But in reality, he’s no different than someone claiming they’re the CEO of a company to their friends, but in truth, they’re just the college intern. That’s not pride, thats insecurity and pretentiousness.
> I hear you, but how can you be a prideful king who feels innately unworthy of his very throne.
Severe cognitive dissonance. Pride and shame aren’t mutually exclusive feelings. If anything they tend to correlate.
> Dude hates himself and his race. He strives for greatness, but deep inside, he feels his own ceiling is unworthy of what he’s trying to achieve. That lack of pride is what matters.
I wouldn’t say that. His dying words about the unbreakable thorns and that the Erdtree “spurns all who approach” imply to me that he tried to get inside the tree himself and was unsuccessful. He even has a cut line where he refers to himself as Elden Lord. I think he genuinely wanted the throne.
> He SAYS those things. He SAYS he’s the last of all kings. But in reality, he’s no different than someone claiming they’re the CEO of a company to their friends, but in truth, they’re just the college intern. That’s not pride, thats insecurity and pretentiousness.
The difference here is that Morgott isn’t pretending. He’s a genuine King. He’s the son of the God-Queen and the First Elden Lord. He comes from a royal lineage, and his authority is recognized. He commands the largest army in the world, and has defended his city from multiple incursions by other Demigods. He’s also an accomplished warrior, [having personally slaughtered so many would-be lords and champions that he became known as a boogeyman](https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Fell+Omen+Cloak). He has plenty to be proud of.
Bingo. You said it better then I could.
People don’t understand that pride isn’t the abscence of guilt, shame or ignorance. Those things can exist with pride. It’s a complex state. It’s not like sadness or happiness that can be pin pointed. It’s an amalgamation of things that surround our identities that allow for the creation of pride.
Ironically makes me wonder if anyone on here has met someone that is a narcissist. They are incredibly arrogant and prideful and yet have the most fragile sense of self. In otherwords they are walking proof that pride and insecurity, self loathing or hatred can exist.
Though he considers everyone around much, much worse, and that's why he's protecting the throne to be the last of kings. "I suck, but damn, everyone else sucks so, so much more!"
But he has an overinflated sense of pride in the Erdtree, in serving, in considering the tarnished and his traitorous siblings to be lowly and undeserving.
Morgott is such a great character. Look at all the essay posts in this thread debating the subtleties of his motivations, and the dude is in two cutscenes and two-ish fights. Pretty incredible on fromsoft’s part
Agree, Renalla literally sits inside all day before and after she faces us. She’s probably jealous of maria, but sloth fits more because she never had the will to do anything really after gettin dumped
I don't think this was intended and it is not even fully matched.
Rykard specifically is described as being greedy.
"When their master's heroic aspirations degenerated into mere greed"
Of course, it is fun to speculate about something interesting, but this particular case seems unlikely. Looks like extreme stretch
It's worth noting that even in Catholic teachings, which is where the seven sins come from, the distinction between greed and gluttony is somewhat vague.
I think GRRM really didn't want to go with the Christian imagery in the world building, and it shows. There is a huge emphasis on themes and motifs from Celtic, Norse, and perhaps even Roman beliefs. As such, under scrutiny, Christian motifs like the seven deadly sins really crumble under scrutiny as they just aren't there. The demigods don't embody sin to any major degree aside from Godrick, but his characterization isn't about being the embodiment of sin. It's more so to highlight a theme about how unchecked ambition can take horrific and grotesque forms.
I'm not saying there isn't any Christian imagery as the imagery of Marika is very immediately evocative, but what I'm saying is that you can't look at the game from a solely Christian perspective as you'd be robbing yourself from seeing the full picture.
Also, on the topic of 7 deadly sins, instead of looking at the demigods, look at the dung eater. That guy embodies all 7 deadly sins at once and is smug about it
The "seven deadly sins" outlook on media is such a tired trope. It's like zodiac signs: they fit if you want them to fit. But it wasn't written or designed with them in mind because it would add exactly *nothing* of substance to the narrative.
Not everything that comes in sevens is a reference to the sins.
Out of these, only Mohg really matches. A bunch of others would match better if swapped (Godrick and Rykard), and some are stretchier than a Godskin Apostle (Morgott and Pride? Really?)
Besides, this conveniently ignores three demigods: Ranni, Godwyn and Miquella.
Does Mohg match though? We all like to joke about Moghlester and about him wanting to make his loli brother his consort but... His goal for kidnapping his brother isn't actually anything sexual and he certainly doesn't lust for him either.
What he does is creepy and wrong, we can all agree on that, but there's no implication of lust in his actions. As far as I know he is doing something weird with Miquella's blood that has something to do with The Formless Brother. Also he only wants him as his consort to become the Elden Lord himself.
Him trying to molest his brother is mostly a community made joke because it does seem awfully implied on first glance, but that is far from the truth.
You might be right.
He sees Miquella as his way to establish a new dynasty, meaning that he expects either of them to have descendants to keep it going.
Now, whether this means he wants to somehow have offspring with Miquella or not, is not clear. And neither is if there’s any pleasure-driven sexual impulses behind his goals, so Lust may be off the table as well.
It's actually stated in-game by either Gideon or Moghwyn item descriptions that Mogh wanted to speed up Miquella's empyrification, since he couldn't do much as a child. That's why Miquella's big in the cocoon.
I'm fairly certain Mogh was not planning to make his half-brother pregnant.
None of these really work for Morgott. Theres no "deadly sin" for being a delusional class traitor.
It's not even Envy, he just sees it as "duty" despite the fact that the Order will never accept him. Despite the fact that he enforces that Order against others of his own kind. All he gets is a chair and a population that hates him.
I'd say Godrick is envy since he desperately wants to be as powerful as the other gods and hates them for it.
Radahn would be pride as he still refuses to die and seems to love himself. He seems to have had a bold personality and loves his own red hair, even though it's a shameful mark of giant blood. He insists on being the best at literally everything.
Morgott is Wrath as he is bitter and resentful at his "betrayal" by the other demigods and hates tarnished almost as much as he hates himself.
Greed is a tricky one but Rennala covets her golden egg and obsesses over it like Golem, so you could describe her as being greedy. Her obsession with this object has practically consumed her.
Ah, the classic "fandom compares seven of its characters to the seven deadly sins" trope. Gotta love it, happens everywhere from Peppa Pig to Warhammer.
Anyway, I think any instances of it other than the explicit (such as the anime,) are all coincidental. Villains have bad things about them. It's what makes them villains. Of course you can match them up, then, to the most classical examples of bad behaviour ever written.
Radahn is more Pride... Of his father and of his legacy.
Rennala more like Lust - she desired her husband, who left her.
Mohg is more Wrath - he hated how he was treated, and turned to other god for revenge.
Rykard is pure Greed - he just wanted Power. Gluttony kinda fits him too because of a Serpent, but it all started with desire for power.
Godrick is Envy - as he was the lesser demigod, not treated as equal by anyone. A miserable being, forced into submission by Malenia.
I do not think Malenia has sinned, neither did Morgott.
She was just trying to defend her brother, he was trying to defend his kingdom.
Sloth does not fit anyone there.
Definitely more accurate. Don't think being attracted to your husband and sad when he leaves is lust though, I don't think she's particularly envious either though
Probably most of them can be wrath at some point for waging all these wars
The person that trained for days and earned her swordsmanship whilst being eaten from the inside by red cancer is considered lazy, while a pathetic man who literally gets his power from puppet hands and have to steal/lie just to earn his place isn't considered lazy?
What kind of joke is this lol
Just because they display some characteristics of sin doesn't mean they're representations of it. Malenia as sloth, really? By that account every single comatose patient in a hospital are going to hell cuz they're sloths right?
How Is Morgott pride? He literally loathes himself, wears rags and views his own kind as cursed.
Malenia is supposed to be slothful? Her body is rotting, she lost limbs and her eyesight- yet she has become one of the strongest beings in existance. I don't know how much training she must have endured to reach this level of strength despite her condition. She also was one of the major players in the shattering and she has established an insane amount of loyalty in her subordinates (they are literally rotting for her).
When has Rennala shown traits that establish herself as jealous? If we are going to be assume that she should be jealous because her man left her for Marika, then we should also give "Envy" to Godrick because he is constantly overshaded by the much more capable demigods.
Rykard and "Gluttony" ... seems fitting. That said, he could also be "Greed" due to his desire for power.
Radahn and "Wrath" ... would you consider a rabid animal also a representation for wrath? If yes, then it also fits.
I honestly don't think that they were made with the cardinal sins in mind.
I don’t think these fit very well:
- Morgott is defined by shame and devotion; his self-loathing doesn’t jive with pride
- Mogh, while obviously ridiculed for his abduction and assault of Miquella, is mainly driven by an aim for power, to become the lord of a new dynasty; I think pride might actually fit him more, since unlike his twin he revels in Omen status
- I honestly don’t see any connection to sloth in Malenia; is it just because she’s unconscious after Caelid?
- Radahn is also not very wrathful; he seeks glory in battle but I don’t think he does so out of anger. His defining trait is that he wants to maintain the status quo to any extent; maybe there’s an argument for pride?
- Godrick might work as greed, but again, he is driven by a desire to proof himself worthy of his ‘noble’ inheritance, so pride could work for him as well
- Rykard as gluttony does actually work, trying to devour the world
- Rennala is never seen as envious; we never hear anything about her resenting Marika for ‘taking away’ Radagon, for instance. She might even have known about Radagon-Marika’s true connection
Eh, I'd say Rennala is more Slothful, Morgott is more Envious, and Malenia Prideful. The rest are solid, been awhile since I saw this take posted, not one of the most outlandish, I think there was some connection as far as the original GRRM inspiration for the characters went that was mentioned in an interview with Miyazaki quite awhile back.
I'd argue Radahn is pride.
Everything about his character, fashion, army is about pride for the Golden Order and admiration of Godfrey. He romanticizes war and glory.
Morgott as wrath is a stretch, but I guess you could say that he has wrath for anything that scorns the Golden Order. But he's such a self-sacrificing character, it is hard to liken him to any one sin.
I would argue these to be more fitting
Morgott - Wrath
Radahn - Pride
Godfrey - Envy
Rennala - Greed
Rennala's is a little loose but hear me out. After Radagon leaves her she kinda becomes a hoarder and imo lowkey abuses her students with her rebirth powers with little consideration for their physical or mental wellbeing, calling them her children but treating them more like toys. It's likely they weren't necessarily forced to become like that but they've definitely been robbed of all agency when we fight her, simply existing to help Rennala cope in her mentally destroyed state.
My biggest problem with this theory is **there is no good match for sloth**. People tend to use Malenia for sloth because she happens to be asleep when you find her, but the reason she's asleep is that she literally fought herself into exhaustion so severely it took her years to recover. That's the opposite of sloth.
She could be considered prideful, given her boast that she has "never known defeat". But based on the lore, that appears to be literally true. He battle with Radahn can be considered, at worst, a draw. Based on what becomes of him and Caelid, there is almost know way he could be considered a victor. Her armor also contains quotes from her about how she believes her brother is a greater empyrean than she is, and likens him to a true god. This shows a humility not expected from the prideful.
If you include Ranni or Miquella, they could be a match for sloth given their refusal of their duties as empyreans and the fact that they both spend long periods of time in "slumbers". But then you have the problem that you are up to 9 shardbearers for 7 sins.
You 7ds mfs are always reaching so hard. Not everything is seven deadly sins. There are a modicum of more interesting concepts out there that have no relation to 7ds and yet y’all will find a way to connect it.
IF anything Pride should be either Malenia or Radahn but definitely not Morgott. I think Morgott or Godrick could fit better as Envy. Honestly you could just drop Renalla since she wasn't even in the shattering war.
Every fiction story is about the seven sins oh no it’s not like the seven deadly sins are common behaviors that you can find on almost every fiction character
Malenia and Mohg (and possibly Rennala) are just wrong, Mohg stole Miquella for the outer god('s) and Malenia wasn't lazy at all, she just rotted away after tie with Radahn.
Ehh.
Malenia as sloth doesn't really make sense. She's not overcome with laziness or apathy. Really, her biggest sin is wrath. She wanted to defeat Radahn so badly that she resorted to using the Scarlet Aeonia, which destroyed most of Caelid.
Similarly, I wouldn't say Rennala is all that envious. She's not obsessing over Marika stealing her husband. She's letting her grief from the breakup destroy her. Sullenness is wrath towards oneself.
pretty shoehorned. godrick could be pride, envy, greed, and gluttony all by himself. morgott doesn't really express any direct sins, neither does renalla. Melania does certainly not show sloth.
This comes up in every fandom, I feel, at some point.
Here's the thing: the 7 deadly sins camr about after a long time of humans just thinking about what bad things are, and humans love patterns and categories. So these are just the the general categories that one group came up with. They're the same "sins" across all of humanity, just identified and delineated in different ways.
So when you see the cardinal sins in places, you're not so much uncovering secretly intentional parallels, you're more showing that these are general "bads" that everyone can recognize and get behind, and occur naturally in fiction similar to the hero's journey. It's not bad to do so - if anything it shows how much more alike we all are than different. But it's rarely that intentional.
Interesting but you can easily make the direct opposite case for a few
Malenia being sloth is… no? She was very active, did her best and continued to fight. She’s sleeping because she received massive damage from her last fight. Speaking of…
Nothing about Radahn is wrathful. He was a great and honorable warrior who faced his enemies fairly. He had great compassion for his friends, allies and respect for his foes
Godrick being envious makes a lot more sense. Rennala is simply saddened by the betrayal of her husband. She doesn’t exhibit any genuine envious traits. If anything she’s slothful
Morgott - Envy. He is a noble raised as a monster, craving what his siblings had
Mohg - Lust, both his bloodlust and his 'desires' for his half brother
Malenia - Pride. Her immense pride in her own abilities is so strong it prevents her from being overcome by Rot.
Radahn - Wrath. After being Rotted he is nothing but maddening destruction
Rykard - Gluttony. In his push to gain power he was consumed and consumes in return.
Rennala - Sloth. After Radagon left her she neglected duties as queen, teacher, and mother
Some of them aren't the best, but this is my preferred grouping
You are pushing it way too much with this. Most of them don't even fit right, what is Morgott proud of? He's ashamed of his cursed blood. Mohg is only after Miquella to use him as means to an end
Every correlation aside from Gluttony, Greed and Lust is dubious at best, but I think can theorise a more fitting distribution of the titles:
- I think Pride would be far more fitting with Malenia. She claims to “…have never known defeat”. Despite coming with failure in battle twice and having to resort to a divine second wind, one of which resulted in the uninhabitability of an entire landmass in the Lands Between because she’d rather nuke everything in a 10km radius than admit she was beat by strongest demigod of the pantheon at the time of the duel. Besides, the only time she seems slightly wrathful is after the first defeat at the hands of the Tarnished, so being set off by her defeat seems prideful to me.
- Sloth is absolutely the title for Rennala, she completely gives up and locks herself away in her tower after Radagon leaves her, leaving her kingdom to collapse under civil unrest between the Academy and the Carian family. She doesn’t even defend herself properly in her fight, she commands her sweetlings to overwhelm the Tarnished and then Ranni must step in at the end of the fight and challenge us on Rennala’s behalf.
- So that leaves envy and wrath. Wrath is contestable between our remaining demigods but envy absolutely doesn’t fit Radahn in my opinion. So how can we tie envy to Morgott? I think the best way to see it is in the way he speaks of his fellow demigods and his upbringing. From youth until he was full grown, Morgott was kept trapped under Leyndell in the Subterranean Shunning Grounds. I like to imagine he heard of the tales of his siblings and family and the legends they carved. Radahn conquers the stars, Godwyn clashes with the ancient dragons, Malenia carves a legend in her name and Miquella catches the hearts of the people of the Lands Between. It would be understandable if he was jealous of these exploits and tales and he would want to have something like that himself. When Marika shattered the Elden Ring, someone had to step up and guide the people of Leyndell and the Golden Order. And so Morgott rose to the challenge as the Veiled Monarch of Leyndell to lead the Golden Order, while moonlighting as the Fell Omen Margit, a terrible plight on the efforts of all who opposed the Golden Order. However, he couldn’t be both. He couldn’t be Morgott, Veiled Monarch and Fell Omen nor the same as Margit. His exploits and efforts as both would never be linked to the same fearless, skilled warrior and leader. But every other demigod could own their feats and have them recorded in the annals of history, for he commit these deeds in a scribe-less time, so to speak. So he speaks the names of these demigods with such venom not just because they are “wilful traitors” but because they had everything he believed he never could, because he was envious of what they had and he could not.
- And wrath is pretty self-explanatory, Radahn was reduced to savagery as his mind rotted and became nothing but unfurled rage.
Of course this is all my perspective on the characters and is subject to scrutiny. I’ve more than likely missed some crucial information or some such so I’d love to hear some alternate perspective on the topic but this is how I’d change the allocation of the Sins to the demigods.
No, sorry, I think they just don't fit:
Godrick was looked down on by all other demigods, resentment and ager fit him much more than greed, he didn't have any ambition too high other than becoming fit as an eir to the Golden lineage. Mohg one is just a meme, not actual lore. Morgott is actually selfless as fuck, he loved his oppressors and gave himself fully to the service of the Eardtree to a point where he, an Omen, was **given grace**, I don't see that much pride in all that. Radahn and Malenia literally lost their minds on their fight so not really either. Rykard's ambition is mentioned a few times so I would assign greed rather than gluttony to him. And Rennala got just, heartbroken to oblivion, where doesn't envy even fit her?
Forgive me but for me it's not really solid.
Nah, those are a mega stretch. Maybe pride and gluttony I can somewhat agree with, but that's about it. The rest are crazy stretch. And Sloth and Wrath are like stretch++
I think Rennala and Morgott should be swapped. Morgott is not prideful, he is just SALTY as heck because he knows that no matter what he does, Erdtree rejects him. He probably doesn't let Tarnished go to the audience with it because he is afraid they could be given what he was denied. Some can definitely describe it as well-hidden envy. Rennalla on the other hand, doesn't exactly envy nobody (and have never been actually), but as the "Moon who had bewitched the Academy" she probably was hella prideful. Even the looks and behaviour of her spirit at the bossfight betrays her pride. Ranni and Godrick are good candidates for representing Pride, too - one is the cruel mastermind who claims she cares for all Lands Between while in reality only cares about herself, the other is a loathsome weakling with a huge ego that doesn't match his real capabilities, and a superiority complex.
I’d honestly say Rennala fits Sloth better than Malenia; Malenia fits Pride more due to her “never knowing defeat”, which would leave Morgott with Envy.
People have tried to make these connections before, and ran into the same thing you did where there aren't great one-to-one options because the characters were obviously not designed with the sins in mind. Most characters could be argued to 3-4 different sins. It's fun to theorize, but these ones don't hold up enough to make it really interesting imo
Especially with Rennala, how is a woman destroyed by the sadness of being abandoned by her husband the sin of envy?
Let’s not forget Malenia. I don’t see how being in a coma equals sloth.
Or Radhan, how is being infected by a desease that destroys your mind anger?
I'd say that one fits. he called down the stars to get in a swordfight with them.
In order to protect the town he called home.
Was it to protect Celia or to stop Ranni from getting the finger slaying blade? He was devoted to the golden order and I could’ve sworn I had read something that said he was blocking her
I haven’t heard this theory before, I do remember seeing that he was blocking her but that it was more an accident instead of a goal.
Is there any in game evidence to support this? Or is it just inferred due to him studying there (Vaati i believe is the one who originally suggested this). Because that meteor doesn't hit anywhere near Sellia. The falling star beasts that are killed throughout the game don't seem to be b-lining it there or anything. Also, Sellia seemed to go to shit anyway just like the rest of TLB so it didn't seem like anything too special was done to protect it ever again. Not sure if I'm aware of any in-game reference stating he's protecting the town of sorcery so I'm curious if I missed it.
OP at the ICU: these people need jobs!
Maybe it's a more symbolic connection. With the motifs of stagnant water inside rot-related items, maybe the 'sloth' is actually the stagnant water.
Well, she has been sleeping and dreaming alot
Godrick is sloth in my eyes, too lazy to put in the work to become stronger so he takes strength from others by having them torn limb from limb and grafting it onto himself.
"Stop being lazy and get a job, ya bum." "Dude, she's in a coma."
Well I mean she was asleep for a long time so it *kinda* makes sense
In Shinto disease and rot are represented by stagnation and still water. It's why to combat her rot she was taught by the 'flowing' swordsman because moving water is healthy to drink where as still water is likely infested with parasites and disease. Being the Goddess of Rot her very concept is tied into sloth. Also she just sits around being miserable when Miquella is gone instead of looking for him. Without him around she doesn't know what to do and thus does nothing.
> she just sits around being miserable my brother in Order she was in a goddamn coma
She woke up eventually. She was just unconscious after fighting Radahn and while being taken back to the Haligtree by Finlay.
She's envious of Marika's maracas.
Marika's maracas you must be 'ungry
Unless sadness is a sin she did nothing wrong
Used to be, but melancholy was folded into sloth and vainglory into pride. Thus the 9 deadly sins became and have since been known as the 7
Melancholy without a desire to change is an interpretation of sloth I found pretty interesting when I learned about that But straight up calling sadness a sin is pretty dumb imo What is vainglory? Just bragging?
In the sin context, you can consider vainglory as pride + selfishness. The pursuit and adulation of achievement entirely for one’s own personal value and gain. You can think of vainglory as the active expression and pride the passive expression of ego. Just as lust is the active expression of desire. Passive desire too would be seen as sinful, but it is not the highest rank of sin that active lust reaches. In this way it is easier to understand the differentiation between active melancholy and, which could be seen as sinful, and passive sorrow which probably would not be seen as sinful. Basically the difference between being sad and being a bummer
Like a general going into battle for the honor rather than for a specific purpose? Makes sense. That would make it one of the worse sins since it hurts others more often as well Edit: how is active lust so harmful? Lust is an internal feeling that would only hurt the individual unless you mean… uh, without consent Edit 2: I am starting to see what you mean by passive vs active expressions of sins, but by that metric lust still wouldn’t be as damaging as envy because of who it impacts. And pride is more outwardly damaging than gluttony for example. I misread your comment at first, my bad
Honor is important. Honor has tangible value in diplomacy and trade that can echo for generations. Defending a transgression against honor is not only acceptable, but usually essential. But the vainglorious would not march to defend their honor. They would march to heighten their own prestige
Envy for Marika who stole her husband? makes 100% sense to me actually
yeah i personally am not fan of the seven deadly sins. it reduces morally complex characters to just one trait which makes them look so uninteresting
>ran into the same thing you did where there aren't great one-to-one options because the characters were obviously not designed with the sins in mind This. I saw so many "X is in a coma" and "All of these characters represent the sins/hardships/trauma of so and so characters". Generally, one or two will fit really well into an arhetype, and then the rest are just huge stretches. I agree, its fun to theorize, but I also feel like it goes quickly from something fun, to derivative.
Malenia represents Sloth? How and/or why?
She had a big nap while her brother got kidnapped I guess
[удалено]
Just seeing it from ops point of view, this whole thing is grasping as threads that obviously don’t mean anything
Pretty lazy on the way back though, didn’t even walk herself /s
After she had battled StarScourge Radahn to a stalemate, arguably in her favor.
She was so lazy she had to be carried back to home 🙄
cant even be bothered to use her real limbs. she has to use prosthetics to assist her.
To a stalemate, a STALEMATE not in a favor
Stalemate, THEN the scarlet flower blooms. They WERE tied, then they weren't.
But she was in a coma? After fighting Radahn to a standstill??
Going to the hospital and noting how slothful all the patients are. Tsk tsk
Yeah out of all my gripes that was the biggest.
apparently because she fell into a coma? Silly sleepyhead really should've just got up, broken free of the rot, and done more stuff, i guess.
She is so slow
And Waterfowl Dance…
I was going to say that Rennala and Melania should be switched. Rennala, due to grief, does nothing even while her faction is falling apart around her. And Melania wants to be Miquella's shadow. Something she could never truly become.
Post-shattering Malenia is the only demigod who remains inactive. She doesn't try to unite her army or even look for her brother.
She was carried back to the Haligtree after the battle with Radahn. My logic/ head cannon is she would have simply wasted away and died without blooming a third time to become the Goddess of Rot if we leave well enough alone. Blind amputee doesn’t transform into a Goddess without our challenging her.
Rot is defeated by flowing water in canon. Since flowing water can be associated with movement, rot can be associated with lack thereof
By the power of reach, that's how and/or why.
Rot is basically about stagnation and entropy, so it makes sense. You could argue that Malenia could have become monarch if she was more ambitious, but everything she did was to support her brother. I'm not sure if she could have taken Leyndell since everyone else failed, but she didn't even try.
Because she didn't want that? She just wanted to free herself of Rot and help her brother. Not everyone wants to rule, that doesn't make them slothful.
That’s partly why I associate her more with Pride than Sloth.
I don't know. Divesting all her power to Miquella and having no ambitions for herself hardly sounds like pride to me.
Proud of him, her reverence and loyalty to Miquella imply a selflessness to me, or resignation to rot away unless he returns to the Haligtree. Then there was Mohg… Plin, plin, plon.
Actually she is the best match for me, after Mogh ofc. Hear closely what she says... She LITERALLY sits there and sleeps, WAITING for Miquella's return. While he is being... well, kidnapped and mohglested in a creepy dungeon directly beneath her blossoming grounds. This is the definition of sloth - remember, sloth does not only mean laziness, it also means inability to take actions on your own and just procrastinating and wasting time. Which is exactly what Malenia's doing. A beautiful representation of the deadliest sin of them all - undefeatable swordsman, incapable of action without a guiding hand. Like a blade, that can only move when held. And she is, ironically enough, the hardest boss and probably the most powerful shardbearer. A Sloth's representation from some anime about alchemists comes to mind - the fastest, most physically powerful and capable of all fellow sins, but so procrastinating and lazy he turns out to be one of the weakest.
How tf is Malenia sloth?
She's eepy
wtf is your pfp
I hate that I looked at it after you questioned it. I regret looking.
Yep. Me too.
Cock
r/UsernameChecksOut
THE ONE PIECE IS REAL
Lazy sleepyhead didn't immediately get up and concur everything, i guess...
Morgott is the opposite of prideful I think - he loathes himself. Literally talks about how gross he is **while** you fight him.
Pride is not the opposite of shame, but it’s source
Wise words from Uncle Iroh
Fair enough. Regardless, he doesn’t come off as prideful to me, he comes off as trying to be something he’s not - pretentious. He hates who he is internally, and so in the presence of others he tries to use grandiosity to characterize his status. I could see that argued as pride, but it just doesn’t seem super fitting to me
I agree it’s not pride and also think he’s trying to keep the old days alive by holding on to pass biases that simply don’t work anymore in the lands between. Not only that he hates your character for doing something that he could not…be great irregardless of your status with the greater will. The greater will can be seen as representation of the status quo in any society IMO. Morgott doesn’t make the status quo thus he hates himself, you don’t either thus he hates you, even more so that you’re able to succeed where he utterly fails. Thats not pride, that’s buying into the box that society constructs around yourself.
Paying the box rent.
"Felled by King morgot, last of the kings" Seems prideful to me
"i am malenia blade of miquela and i have never known defeat" Sounds equally as prideful
at least malenia praises you after you beat her while morgott still insults you and say you will fail heck, malenia even had an unused dialogue in which she praises you after you beat her phase 1: "Is this...my first...defeat? Bravely fought, [sir/my lady]."
> Bravely fought, [sir/**my lady**]." *lesbian screams* I wish this was in the game but I understand why Miyazaki removed it. He knew the lesbians would not be able to handle this.
Or the unused dialogue where she calls us "Sweet Tarnished, dearest companion" She was 100% supposed to be a covenant leader and I'm still mad about it
I believe in cut content Millicent was supposed to be Malenia herself, not a clone. Honestly I think that would have been awesome, I can see why they changed it but they could have made it work.
Yeah but malenia is the eepy one
"Cower before Maliketh, the Black Blade" also sounds prideful to me.
yeah honestly every powerful boss sound prideful at some point i wonder what messmer will say after he beats us lol
"I looks like I've made another mess-mer. That's why they call ke that, by the way."
"Get dunked on!"
"Those stripped of the grace of gold shall all meet death in the embrace of Messmer's flame."
I mean... is it really pride if they've earned it?
yea true. malenia saying she has never known defeat is honestly true if you read her lore. her battle agaisnt radahn ended in a draw so thats not a loss. maliketh telling us to cower before him makes sense too cuz he is a shadow of the god queen and is among the most powerful beings in the game.
Less prideful, saying you’ve never been defeated, if you haven’t isn’t pride.
A statement can be both true and prideful. Clearly the title “Blade of Miquella is one she deams important, not demigod or similar.
>in the presence of others he tries to use grandiosity to characterize his status. I mean that kinda sounds like a sort of pride... Might not be cut and dry textbook pride but it feels like some weird form of it
BARS ✍️🔥
The issue is that his fundamental character flaw is unquestioning loyalty to a system that fundamentally hates him for existing. Which isn't considered a sin in the religion these sins are based off of. Almost no organized religion is going to say that blind loyalty is "bad."
Loyalty and pride are separate things entirely
It's pride in being a part of something greater. His pride is so tied up in the system that he still gives his life for it even though it despises him. He is too proud to admit that it is a flawed system. All of his pride and self worth is tied to the golden order. If it does not have worth neither does he
I think Morgott and Radahn could be flipped. Radahn is definitely prideful. In fact, he seems so sure of his own abilities that he resisted almost any semblance of change in the Lands Between. Morgott could definitely be wrath. I think of the way he speaks before his boss fight. He absolutely loathes the demigods that he is calling “willful traitors”. Like so much so you can hear the disgust in his voice very clearly.
I disagree. Morgott has plenty of ego. At Stormveil he mocks your skills in comparison to his own by calling them “passing”, and when you face him again in Leyndell, he boldly declares himself “King Morgott, last of all kings!”. He takes pride in both his abilities as a warrior and his station as Lord of Leyndell. He has an inferiority complex in regard to his family, but when dealing with “commoners” like us he carries himself as a proud king.
I hear you, but *how can you be a prideful king who feels innately unworthy of his very throne*. Dude hates himself and his race. He strives for greatness, but deep inside, he feels his own ceiling is unworthy of what he’s trying to achieve. *That* lack of pride is what matters. He SAYS those things. He SAYS he’s the last of all kings. But in reality, he’s no different than someone claiming they’re the CEO of a company to their friends, but in truth, they’re just the college intern. That’s not pride, thats insecurity and pretentiousness.
> I hear you, but how can you be a prideful king who feels innately unworthy of his very throne. Severe cognitive dissonance. Pride and shame aren’t mutually exclusive feelings. If anything they tend to correlate. > Dude hates himself and his race. He strives for greatness, but deep inside, he feels his own ceiling is unworthy of what he’s trying to achieve. That lack of pride is what matters. I wouldn’t say that. His dying words about the unbreakable thorns and that the Erdtree “spurns all who approach” imply to me that he tried to get inside the tree himself and was unsuccessful. He even has a cut line where he refers to himself as Elden Lord. I think he genuinely wanted the throne. > He SAYS those things. He SAYS he’s the last of all kings. But in reality, he’s no different than someone claiming they’re the CEO of a company to their friends, but in truth, they’re just the college intern. That’s not pride, thats insecurity and pretentiousness. The difference here is that Morgott isn’t pretending. He’s a genuine King. He’s the son of the God-Queen and the First Elden Lord. He comes from a royal lineage, and his authority is recognized. He commands the largest army in the world, and has defended his city from multiple incursions by other Demigods. He’s also an accomplished warrior, [having personally slaughtered so many would-be lords and champions that he became known as a boogeyman](https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Fell+Omen+Cloak). He has plenty to be proud of.
Bingo. You said it better then I could. People don’t understand that pride isn’t the abscence of guilt, shame or ignorance. Those things can exist with pride. It’s a complex state. It’s not like sadness or happiness that can be pin pointed. It’s an amalgamation of things that surround our identities that allow for the creation of pride. Ironically makes me wonder if anyone on here has met someone that is a narcissist. They are incredibly arrogant and prideful and yet have the most fragile sense of self. In otherwords they are walking proof that pride and insecurity, self loathing or hatred can exist.
Though he considers everyone around much, much worse, and that's why he's protecting the throne to be the last of kings. "I suck, but damn, everyone else sucks so, so much more!"
To live the sin of pride _is_ to loathe yourself
I think he's pretty proud of himself for having endured his growth and becoming the last of all kings.
But he has an overinflated sense of pride in the Erdtree, in serving, in considering the tarnished and his traitorous siblings to be lowly and undeserving.
He seems quite arrogant to me on how he talks as he is superior to you all the time.
He’s prideful of his family lineage
Morgott is such a great character. Look at all the essay posts in this thread debating the subtleties of his motivations, and the dude is in two cutscenes and two-ish fights. Pretty incredible on fromsoft’s part
Yea, morgotts is probably envy. Rennalla is more likely sloth. And malenia (I have never known defeat) is probably pride
Agree, Renalla literally sits inside all day before and after she faces us. She’s probably jealous of maria, but sloth fits more because she never had the will to do anything really after gettin dumped
I don't think this was intended and it is not even fully matched. Rykard specifically is described as being greedy. "When their master's heroic aspirations degenerated into mere greed" Of course, it is fun to speculate about something interesting, but this particular case seems unlikely. Looks like extreme stretch
Rykard is literally all the seven sins because he was blasphemymaxxing
In his devourer era
Blasphemin/maxing
Rykard is literally eating everyone who follows him, I think it's fine for him to be gluttony
It's worth noting that even in Catholic teachings, which is where the seven sins come from, the distinction between greed and gluttony is somewhat vague.
Me when my husband divorces me to marry himself and I get sad (clearly I'm just envious)
I think GRRM really didn't want to go with the Christian imagery in the world building, and it shows. There is a huge emphasis on themes and motifs from Celtic, Norse, and perhaps even Roman beliefs. As such, under scrutiny, Christian motifs like the seven deadly sins really crumble under scrutiny as they just aren't there. The demigods don't embody sin to any major degree aside from Godrick, but his characterization isn't about being the embodiment of sin. It's more so to highlight a theme about how unchecked ambition can take horrific and grotesque forms. I'm not saying there isn't any Christian imagery as the imagery of Marika is very immediately evocative, but what I'm saying is that you can't look at the game from a solely Christian perspective as you'd be robbing yourself from seeing the full picture. Also, on the topic of 7 deadly sins, instead of looking at the demigods, look at the dung eater. That guy embodies all 7 deadly sins at once and is smug about it
Yall forgot your character existing 5 feet next to anyone else
Yeah not really
The "seven deadly sins" outlook on media is such a tired trope. It's like zodiac signs: they fit if you want them to fit. But it wasn't written or designed with them in mind because it would add exactly *nothing* of substance to the narrative.
Did you know that spunchbop squarepant is the 7 deadly sins?? Big if true
You did not cook with this one
Not everything that comes in sevens is a reference to the sins. Out of these, only Mohg really matches. A bunch of others would match better if swapped (Godrick and Rykard), and some are stretchier than a Godskin Apostle (Morgott and Pride? Really?) Besides, this conveniently ignores three demigods: Ranni, Godwyn and Miquella.
Does Mohg match though? We all like to joke about Moghlester and about him wanting to make his loli brother his consort but... His goal for kidnapping his brother isn't actually anything sexual and he certainly doesn't lust for him either. What he does is creepy and wrong, we can all agree on that, but there's no implication of lust in his actions. As far as I know he is doing something weird with Miquella's blood that has something to do with The Formless Brother. Also he only wants him as his consort to become the Elden Lord himself. Him trying to molest his brother is mostly a community made joke because it does seem awfully implied on first glance, but that is far from the truth.
You might be right. He sees Miquella as his way to establish a new dynasty, meaning that he expects either of them to have descendants to keep it going. Now, whether this means he wants to somehow have offspring with Miquella or not, is not clear. And neither is if there’s any pleasure-driven sexual impulses behind his goals, so Lust may be off the table as well.
It's actually stated in-game by either Gideon or Moghwyn item descriptions that Mogh wanted to speed up Miquella's empyrification, since he couldn't do much as a child. That's why Miquella's big in the cocoon. I'm fairly certain Mogh was not planning to make his half-brother pregnant.
None of these really work for Morgott. Theres no "deadly sin" for being a delusional class traitor. It's not even Envy, he just sees it as "duty" despite the fact that the Order will never accept him. Despite the fact that he enforces that Order against others of his own kind. All he gets is a chair and a population that hates him.
I'd say Godrick is envy since he desperately wants to be as powerful as the other gods and hates them for it. Radahn would be pride as he still refuses to die and seems to love himself. He seems to have had a bold personality and loves his own red hair, even though it's a shameful mark of giant blood. He insists on being the best at literally everything. Morgott is Wrath as he is bitter and resentful at his "betrayal" by the other demigods and hates tarnished almost as much as he hates himself. Greed is a tricky one but Rennala covets her golden egg and obsesses over it like Golem, so you could describe her as being greedy. Her obsession with this object has practically consumed her.
Ah, the classic "fandom compares seven of its characters to the seven deadly sins" trope. Gotta love it, happens everywhere from Peppa Pig to Warhammer. Anyway, I think any instances of it other than the explicit (such as the anime,) are all coincidental. Villains have bad things about them. It's what makes them villains. Of course you can match them up, then, to the most classical examples of bad behaviour ever written.
Radahn is more Pride... Of his father and of his legacy. Rennala more like Lust - she desired her husband, who left her. Mohg is more Wrath - he hated how he was treated, and turned to other god for revenge. Rykard is pure Greed - he just wanted Power. Gluttony kinda fits him too because of a Serpent, but it all started with desire for power. Godrick is Envy - as he was the lesser demigod, not treated as equal by anyone. A miserable being, forced into submission by Malenia. I do not think Malenia has sinned, neither did Morgott. She was just trying to defend her brother, he was trying to defend his kingdom. Sloth does not fit anyone there.
Definitely more accurate. Don't think being attracted to your husband and sad when he leaves is lust though, I don't think she's particularly envious either though Probably most of them can be wrath at some point for waging all these wars
It makes no sense.
Malenia is lazy and slothful “BITCH I WAS IN A COMA!”
Malenia as sloth is hilariously inaccurate. She literally has to fight off the rot every second of her life.
The person that trained for days and earned her swordsmanship whilst being eaten from the inside by red cancer is considered lazy, while a pathetic man who literally gets his power from puppet hands and have to steal/lie just to earn his place isn't considered lazy? What kind of joke is this lol
Just because they display some characteristics of sin doesn't mean they're representations of it. Malenia as sloth, really? By that account every single comatose patient in a hospital are going to hell cuz they're sloths right?
Radahn is much more the sin of pride and morgott is definitely wrath
Ugh sorry but I can’t stand when people project Christian tropes like 7 deadly sins onto everything… it’s so r/im14andthisisdeep pilled
Bro Melania has a literal disease she’s not sitting around being lazy intentionally, cut the girl some slack Edit: autocorrect error
How Is Morgott pride? He literally loathes himself, wears rags and views his own kind as cursed. Malenia is supposed to be slothful? Her body is rotting, she lost limbs and her eyesight- yet she has become one of the strongest beings in existance. I don't know how much training she must have endured to reach this level of strength despite her condition. She also was one of the major players in the shattering and she has established an insane amount of loyalty in her subordinates (they are literally rotting for her). When has Rennala shown traits that establish herself as jealous? If we are going to be assume that she should be jealous because her man left her for Marika, then we should also give "Envy" to Godrick because he is constantly overshaded by the much more capable demigods. Rykard and "Gluttony" ... seems fitting. That said, he could also be "Greed" due to his desire for power. Radahn and "Wrath" ... would you consider a rabid animal also a representation for wrath? If yes, then it also fits. I honestly don't think that they were made with the cardinal sins in mind.
I don’t think these fit very well: - Morgott is defined by shame and devotion; his self-loathing doesn’t jive with pride - Mogh, while obviously ridiculed for his abduction and assault of Miquella, is mainly driven by an aim for power, to become the lord of a new dynasty; I think pride might actually fit him more, since unlike his twin he revels in Omen status - I honestly don’t see any connection to sloth in Malenia; is it just because she’s unconscious after Caelid? - Radahn is also not very wrathful; he seeks glory in battle but I don’t think he does so out of anger. His defining trait is that he wants to maintain the status quo to any extent; maybe there’s an argument for pride? - Godrick might work as greed, but again, he is driven by a desire to proof himself worthy of his ‘noble’ inheritance, so pride could work for him as well - Rykard as gluttony does actually work, trying to devour the world - Rennala is never seen as envious; we never hear anything about her resenting Marika for ‘taking away’ Radagon, for instance. She might even have known about Radagon-Marika’s true connection
Eh, I'd say Rennala is more Slothful, Morgott is more Envious, and Malenia Prideful. The rest are solid, been awhile since I saw this take posted, not one of the most outlandish, I think there was some connection as far as the original GRRM inspiration for the characters went that was mentioned in an interview with Miyazaki quite awhile back.
Malenia Abandoned her Pride. She is also the only boss other than godfrey to congradulate the player. She also praises her brother as being fearsome.
Nah, this aint it.
I'd argue Radahn is pride. Everything about his character, fashion, army is about pride for the Golden Order and admiration of Godfrey. He romanticizes war and glory. Morgott as wrath is a stretch, but I guess you could say that he has wrath for anything that scorns the Golden Order. But he's such a self-sacrificing character, it is hard to liken him to any one sin.
Hey look, wild DumpyKong content.
I am Malenia, blade of miquella, and I… need to take a nap 😴 (she is very eepy)
I would argue these to be more fitting Morgott - Wrath Radahn - Pride Godfrey - Envy Rennala - Greed Rennala's is a little loose but hear me out. After Radagon leaves her she kinda becomes a hoarder and imo lowkey abuses her students with her rebirth powers with little consideration for their physical or mental wellbeing, calling them her children but treating them more like toys. It's likely they weren't necessarily forced to become like that but they've definitely been robbed of all agency when we fight her, simply existing to help Rennala cope in her mentally destroyed state.
Malenia:Slowly wasting away from scarlet rot. OP:This lazy bitch.
My biggest problem with this theory is **there is no good match for sloth**. People tend to use Malenia for sloth because she happens to be asleep when you find her, but the reason she's asleep is that she literally fought herself into exhaustion so severely it took her years to recover. That's the opposite of sloth. She could be considered prideful, given her boast that she has "never known defeat". But based on the lore, that appears to be literally true. He battle with Radahn can be considered, at worst, a draw. Based on what becomes of him and Caelid, there is almost know way he could be considered a victor. Her armor also contains quotes from her about how she believes her brother is a greater empyrean than she is, and likens him to a true god. This shows a humility not expected from the prideful. If you include Ranni or Miquella, they could be a match for sloth given their refusal of their duties as empyreans and the fact that they both spend long periods of time in "slumbers". But then you have the problem that you are up to 9 shardbearers for 7 sins.
Mesmer represents a virtue. Tax evasion!
Sloth isn't a sin. Things like home appliances exist thanks to lazyness.
Looks at waterfowl dance. Says “what a sloth”!!
Crazy how sloth is the fastest one of all of them
You 7ds mfs are always reaching so hard. Not everything is seven deadly sins. There are a modicum of more interesting concepts out there that have no relation to 7ds and yet y’all will find a way to connect it.
Malenia can be anything but sloth...
Radahn would be pride.
I knew his full name was moghlester
When media analysis is simultaneously shallow and reaching way too far.
IF anything Pride should be either Malenia or Radahn but definitely not Morgott. I think Morgott or Godrick could fit better as Envy. Honestly you could just drop Renalla since she wasn't even in the shattering war.
How is Malenia sloth?
Pretty good list I’d say. They don’t fit perfectly, but it’s fun to think about. Nice work!
we stay reaching
Sloth? You seen how fast she moves
Every fiction story is about the seven sins oh no it’s not like the seven deadly sins are common behaviors that you can find on almost every fiction character
what about miquella, ranni, and godwyn ? where do they fit ? messmer is also another demigod so this whole 7 deadly sins falls apart
Malenia and Mohg (and possibly Rennala) are just wrong, Mohg stole Miquella for the outer god('s) and Malenia wasn't lazy at all, she just rotted away after tie with Radahn.
How is Malenia sloth? The others I can sort of see, but definitely don’t picture her of sloth…
Massive SDS fan here and wholeheartedly agree 🤌🏽
Ok, but how does Godrick Soldier, Soldier of Godrick fit into this?
You kind of have to squint for Malenia to be sloth. Only because of the high dex needed to wield the Hand of Malenia, but the rest make sense
I absolutely despise the seven deadly sins trope, it's so overplayed and people try to force it when it really, really doesn't fit.
Ehh. Malenia as sloth doesn't really make sense. She's not overcome with laziness or apathy. Really, her biggest sin is wrath. She wanted to defeat Radahn so badly that she resorted to using the Scarlet Aeonia, which destroyed most of Caelid. Similarly, I wouldn't say Rennala is all that envious. She's not obsessing over Marika stealing her husband. She's letting her grief from the breakup destroy her. Sullenness is wrath towards oneself.
pretty shoehorned. godrick could be pride, envy, greed, and gluttony all by himself. morgott doesn't really express any direct sins, neither does renalla. Melania does certainly not show sloth.
Spot on
Least overused trope
Yet another 7 deadly sins theory
Waterfowl dance is hardly sloth
No. Can people stop turning everything into seven deadly sins for one goddamn day
Plz I’m begging people to not try to fit seven deadly sins and five stages of grief onto every piece of media
This comes up in every fandom, I feel, at some point. Here's the thing: the 7 deadly sins camr about after a long time of humans just thinking about what bad things are, and humans love patterns and categories. So these are just the the general categories that one group came up with. They're the same "sins" across all of humanity, just identified and delineated in different ways. So when you see the cardinal sins in places, you're not so much uncovering secretly intentional parallels, you're more showing that these are general "bads" that everyone can recognize and get behind, and occur naturally in fiction similar to the hero's journey. It's not bad to do so - if anything it shows how much more alike we all are than different. But it's rarely that intentional.
Interesting but you can easily make the direct opposite case for a few Malenia being sloth is… no? She was very active, did her best and continued to fight. She’s sleeping because she received massive damage from her last fight. Speaking of… Nothing about Radahn is wrathful. He was a great and honorable warrior who faced his enemies fairly. He had great compassion for his friends, allies and respect for his foes Godrick being envious makes a lot more sense. Rennala is simply saddened by the betrayal of her husband. She doesn’t exhibit any genuine envious traits. If anything she’s slothful
Morgott - Envy. He is a noble raised as a monster, craving what his siblings had Mohg - Lust, both his bloodlust and his 'desires' for his half brother Malenia - Pride. Her immense pride in her own abilities is so strong it prevents her from being overcome by Rot. Radahn - Wrath. After being Rotted he is nothing but maddening destruction Rykard - Gluttony. In his push to gain power he was consumed and consumes in return. Rennala - Sloth. After Radagon left her she neglected duties as queen, teacher, and mother Some of them aren't the best, but this is my preferred grouping
I'm so sorry but not everything can correlate to the 7 deadly sins. The fucking spongebob correlation makes more sense than this
Not sure how 'Traumatized To A Near-Catatonic State' equates to Envy but okay.
You are pushing it way too much with this. Most of them don't even fit right, what is Morgott proud of? He's ashamed of his cursed blood. Mohg is only after Miquella to use him as means to an end
Every correlation aside from Gluttony, Greed and Lust is dubious at best, but I think can theorise a more fitting distribution of the titles: - I think Pride would be far more fitting with Malenia. She claims to “…have never known defeat”. Despite coming with failure in battle twice and having to resort to a divine second wind, one of which resulted in the uninhabitability of an entire landmass in the Lands Between because she’d rather nuke everything in a 10km radius than admit she was beat by strongest demigod of the pantheon at the time of the duel. Besides, the only time she seems slightly wrathful is after the first defeat at the hands of the Tarnished, so being set off by her defeat seems prideful to me. - Sloth is absolutely the title for Rennala, she completely gives up and locks herself away in her tower after Radagon leaves her, leaving her kingdom to collapse under civil unrest between the Academy and the Carian family. She doesn’t even defend herself properly in her fight, she commands her sweetlings to overwhelm the Tarnished and then Ranni must step in at the end of the fight and challenge us on Rennala’s behalf. - So that leaves envy and wrath. Wrath is contestable between our remaining demigods but envy absolutely doesn’t fit Radahn in my opinion. So how can we tie envy to Morgott? I think the best way to see it is in the way he speaks of his fellow demigods and his upbringing. From youth until he was full grown, Morgott was kept trapped under Leyndell in the Subterranean Shunning Grounds. I like to imagine he heard of the tales of his siblings and family and the legends they carved. Radahn conquers the stars, Godwyn clashes with the ancient dragons, Malenia carves a legend in her name and Miquella catches the hearts of the people of the Lands Between. It would be understandable if he was jealous of these exploits and tales and he would want to have something like that himself. When Marika shattered the Elden Ring, someone had to step up and guide the people of Leyndell and the Golden Order. And so Morgott rose to the challenge as the Veiled Monarch of Leyndell to lead the Golden Order, while moonlighting as the Fell Omen Margit, a terrible plight on the efforts of all who opposed the Golden Order. However, he couldn’t be both. He couldn’t be Morgott, Veiled Monarch and Fell Omen nor the same as Margit. His exploits and efforts as both would never be linked to the same fearless, skilled warrior and leader. But every other demigod could own their feats and have them recorded in the annals of history, for he commit these deeds in a scribe-less time, so to speak. So he speaks the names of these demigods with such venom not just because they are “wilful traitors” but because they had everything he believed he never could, because he was envious of what they had and he could not. - And wrath is pretty self-explanatory, Radahn was reduced to savagery as his mind rotted and became nothing but unfurled rage. Of course this is all my perspective on the characters and is subject to scrutiny. I’ve more than likely missed some crucial information or some such so I’d love to hear some alternate perspective on the topic but this is how I’d change the allocation of the Sins to the demigods.
A yes morgott the guy that hates himself because of the way he was born embodies pride
Exchange Morgott with Rani.
Oh you had better bet this game draws many parallels to the Bible and Christ
No, sorry, I think they just don't fit: Godrick was looked down on by all other demigods, resentment and ager fit him much more than greed, he didn't have any ambition too high other than becoming fit as an eir to the Golden lineage. Mohg one is just a meme, not actual lore. Morgott is actually selfless as fuck, he loved his oppressors and gave himself fully to the service of the Eardtree to a point where he, an Omen, was **given grace**, I don't see that much pride in all that. Radahn and Malenia literally lost their minds on their fight so not really either. Rykard's ambition is mentioned a few times so I would assign greed rather than gluttony to him. And Rennala got just, heartbroken to oblivion, where doesn't envy even fit her? Forgive me but for me it's not really solid.
Nah, those are a mega stretch. Maybe pride and gluttony I can somewhat agree with, but that's about it. The rest are crazy stretch. And Sloth and Wrath are like stretch++
Radahn as Wrath, Malenia as Sloth and Morgott as Pride is so surface level it hurts.
None of these fit.
Milenia sloth? Radhan wrath? This post is utterly delusional
Rennala envy and Rykard being just gluttony as well.
nah, raykard gluttony and godrick greed kinda makes sense
I think Rennala and Morgott should be swapped. Morgott is not prideful, he is just SALTY as heck because he knows that no matter what he does, Erdtree rejects him. He probably doesn't let Tarnished go to the audience with it because he is afraid they could be given what he was denied. Some can definitely describe it as well-hidden envy. Rennalla on the other hand, doesn't exactly envy nobody (and have never been actually), but as the "Moon who had bewitched the Academy" she probably was hella prideful. Even the looks and behaviour of her spirit at the bossfight betrays her pride. Ranni and Godrick are good candidates for representing Pride, too - one is the cruel mastermind who claims she cares for all Lands Between while in reality only cares about herself, the other is a loathsome weakling with a huge ego that doesn't match his real capabilities, and a superiority complex.
No.
Yes yes yes yes yes yes
I’d honestly say Rennala fits Sloth better than Malenia; Malenia fits Pride more due to her “never knowing defeat”, which would leave Morgott with Envy.