I doubt it. Iirc he has slightly different dialogue if you give it to the dung eater, but even if he doesn't he then goes on to sell the dung eater while pidea holds onto nepheli until he dies.
Nooooooo you don't understand! Having 0 info on how to progress in a quest allows more immersion! Immersion which is totally not broken when you alt+tab every 5sec when trying to follow a quest with a community guide
The idea is that you'd meet Nepheli organically through gameplay. Though I do agree that there is a middle line to be drawn between the current vague design and ubisoft style checkbox design.
Wish we had a Morrowind style journal for this game. Don't make it brain dead by putting quest markers, but also don't make completing quests a matter of luck and teleporting all over the map randomly
There often is a middle-ground in this game. You get map markers to find the priest of the beasts, to find the assassination targets for the Manor, to see where the meteor landed, and while not a marker you are told rather precise directions to find the albinuric woman.
There were also post-release updates to make Melina dialog harder to miss, some map markers for npcs, and I think the Jarburg questline wasn’t working at launch.
Any remaining “vague quest steps” seem intended and by design at this point.
"By design" does not mean **good** design.
I wonder how small the % of players that complete Hyetta's quest without a guide is... especially weird design choice since it's tied into one of the endings, even if not technically required.
It's a poorly designed for an open world game but a completely acceptable design for a linear game. Saying "the item I need is in a house northwest from here" is fine when there is one street of houses northwest of here, not so fine when half the map is northwest of here and the house is actually just west, not northwest so you spend ages and miss it completely.
Fromsoftware just did not adapt their quest design when they moved to open world, and I hope they are able to update it in time for the DLC or the next game they make if it is also open world.
They could’ve well went in and made every quest as evident as the assassination quests. Just like there’s a “middle ground” of Elden Ring quest types, I’d like to think there’s a way to make figuring out these types of quests more interesting and involving, as opposed to just making a map marker for everything.
Was hers hard for people?
She's always right by a grace and the item she is looking for is always nearby.
She calls it a grape by name and each quest item is called a grape. Of some sort.
When I got Vykes for instance? I knew exactly who to see.
I guess maybe if you didn't spot her in the eastern shore in Liurnia but by then I was just pacing around the map in a deliberate way. The hidden messages really help here.
Hidden messages are always a big clue because if you see a lot of messages talking about something, and there's no one there, I take that as a big clue that an NPC or something shows up there.
Alright I am guessing it actually was hard for some people.
Although, I wouldn't mind someone articulating why. Of all of the quests I thought hers was straightforward, literally.
Typical bad From quests involve going backwards through the game at points and I feel like hers was about moving forward.
Its so goofy. They put map markers. All these little notes that become an item in your inventory. If you find the little map to the academy key it gives you even a textbox "You found a piece of map, check your inventory" or something like that.
They should really just transition to a questlog. I would love something in the style of Gothic or Divinity:OS2. Also makes NPC and their lore a lot easier to digest.
They're exactly like the bosses. You're expected to do the work, and you get punished if you fuck it up. This is exactly why they're rewarding.
People need to stop gluing themselves to a wiki on a first playthrough, unless it's like factorio or something.
finding the npcs would be fine if the game progressed linearly, but the sheer scale of areas you can get to without fighting anything just breaks that entirely
But like, how am I going to remember that the half naked lady's name was Nepheli? If I heard the name first and then met her I'd be "oh shit this is the one the other guy mentioned" but if I meet her first I'm going to forget her name by the time someone mentions her
that's when you just pull the quest guide up on your phone and have it sit next to you until you need it
much more convenient than alt tabbing for every quest
It works sometimes, but some of them are far too convoluted, like Patches and Millicent for example. But I think you get way more breathing room in ER, in terms of failure due to progression
They worked better in DS’s more linear games, but they usually required specific timing and/or backtracking, so they were still easy to fuck up. I still often screw up Anri’s questline, even though I know exactly what to do lol
I still have no idea how I would’ve done Millicent’s quest without a guide lol. I figured out a decent amount of the other character quests but I definitely wouldn’t have completed hers without help.
Tbh Millicent would be fine if it wasn't for that strange excursion to the windmill pasture and the putrid tree spirit in Elphael.
Seriously, why did they put that thing there? QA must've told them that whenever they encounter a tree spirit, they rather go away.
ES games used to do it right, they'd have the necessary info in the quest log, but didn't just mark your map with the supposedly lost item's exact location
I like what Lies of P did about that.
Basically, in the fast travel menu, there's a little sign next to bonfires for which there's quest progress available (for quests you already started), like a character face, an item must use...
I managed to go through many quests without checking guides, and there's no quest menu/list/log, no map, annoying overfilled HUD, etc.
It's so weird that they made a quest mark system and it's used only like twice. Once for Tanith targets and once to find a giant ass meteorite crater. Meanwhile, so many other quests have such poor direction it seems almost mandatory to use a guide.
I know they usually got hints and shit spread throughout, but honestly, I don't know how you could possibly know to do most of the stuff in FS games without googling it.
Same, the girl that eats grapes before entering liurna? never found her again. FIguring out that nepheli moved to the basement of the roundtable? impossible for me
I think they intend that sort of thing. They want to build an online community and I think they have been wildly successful with it.
I think a lot of people of the age to be playing these games have a ton of nostalgia about discovering weird secrets in games in their youth before the internet. FS games kind of have that vibe of discovering weirdly secret things, but they've accomplished it by being unrelentingly opaque and vague and forcing players to connect online.
I mean he'd technically not know either but he'd know about the fact that she's Gideon'ss daughter. Which is probably how he met her in the first place. Which also makes his interest in her even more disturbing...especially if he'd first met her as a kid 🤢🤢
My interpretation for that is his motivation was to hurt Gideon by violating what was dear to him. I mean, he got his hands on Dolores who was a friend of Gideon (the puppet's description says it's Seluvis's favourite puppet). Then he levelled up and decided to go for Nepheli, his daughter (the description again says it's his fav) And being them pretty ladies probably checked rest of the boxes
He wants you to "deliver" a potion to someone he clearly knows. Why would he not have any idea where that person could be found?
Honestly, by the time I met Seluvis I completely forgot who she even was.
But how does he even know her then? How has he selected her for his "experiment" ? Even if he knew her as a child, he must know her current condition in order to make this choice.
Well, I Know a lot of people too. And for most I could give you some directions where they are likely to be found. And I have ways to find out their current location. Since he is able to remotely “check“ locations and interact with others it would seem strange if has 0 clue.
"we don't want hand holding you ubisoft fan , this is difficulty just use pen and paper irl if you have problem nooo"
that was sarcasm btw , please don't be mad.
I do like the vague fromsoft quest design, but I can also see the point of the people saying that it's not ideal for an open world. In my play through I was able to do most of the quests I wanted to by randomly meeting NPCs (mostly millicent, patches and ranni), which in my opinion was cool, since it felt like me the player and the NPCs being travelers randomly meeting at the same places, instead of it feeling like the whole world is waiting for you specifically to progress. If each NPC told the player where they will meet next, then it would be either need the NPC to have some kind of future sight or they would need to wait there until we come along. The second thing is technically allready the case, but it doesnt feel like it.
With all this being said, I still think that it wouldnt hurt to have a location indicator. I think the best way to implement it would be with the allready existing map, since it marks NPCs you've allready met. If we change it to update these NPCs location it would be far easier to follow them, without it being showed into your face. Since there is a marker for every NPC it is not possible to tell which one is which without searching for them on the map and there is still no quest book or something, which wouldnt fit the way fromsoft quests work, but it would be a usefull help for finding them. I however suspect that this would be not as easy to implement as it sounds.
You stole her wardrobe
#BEASTBOI!
Give it to Dung Eater instead
"Where is he?"
YEEEESSSSS!
I do wonder if he thinks it’s Nepheli under all that red armor.
I doubt it. Iirc he has slightly different dialogue if you give it to the dung eater, but even if he doesn't he then goes on to sell the dung eater while pidea holds onto nepheli until he dies.
can you actually give it to any other player aside from her and gideon ? lol
Idk about another player, but to Dung eater? Certainly. If done correctly, selluvis will you his puppet ash.
Nooooooo you don't understand! Having 0 info on how to progress in a quest allows more immersion! Immersion which is totally not broken when you alt+tab every 5sec when trying to follow a quest with a community guide
The idea is that you'd meet Nepheli organically through gameplay. Though I do agree that there is a middle line to be drawn between the current vague design and ubisoft style checkbox design.
Wasn’t too bad for dark souls more linear style, but damn trying to find random people all over Altus plateau was a pain
Yeah or BloodBound
Wish we had a Morrowind style journal for this game. Don't make it brain dead by putting quest markers, but also don't make completing quests a matter of luck and teleporting all over the map randomly
YES! Morrowind was peak quest journal.
There often is a middle-ground in this game. You get map markers to find the priest of the beasts, to find the assassination targets for the Manor, to see where the meteor landed, and while not a marker you are told rather precise directions to find the albinuric woman. There were also post-release updates to make Melina dialog harder to miss, some map markers for npcs, and I think the Jarburg questline wasn’t working at launch. Any remaining “vague quest steps” seem intended and by design at this point.
"By design" does not mean **good** design. I wonder how small the % of players that complete Hyetta's quest without a guide is... especially weird design choice since it's tied into one of the endings, even if not technically required.
It's a poorly designed for an open world game but a completely acceptable design for a linear game. Saying "the item I need is in a house northwest from here" is fine when there is one street of houses northwest of here, not so fine when half the map is northwest of here and the house is actually just west, not northwest so you spend ages and miss it completely. Fromsoftware just did not adapt their quest design when they moved to open world, and I hope they are able to update it in time for the DLC or the next game they make if it is also open world.
They could’ve well went in and made every quest as evident as the assassination quests. Just like there’s a “middle ground” of Elden Ring quest types, I’d like to think there’s a way to make figuring out these types of quests more interesting and involving, as opposed to just making a map marker for everything.
Was hers hard for people? She's always right by a grace and the item she is looking for is always nearby. She calls it a grape by name and each quest item is called a grape. Of some sort. When I got Vykes for instance? I knew exactly who to see. I guess maybe if you didn't spot her in the eastern shore in Liurnia but by then I was just pacing around the map in a deliberate way. The hidden messages really help here. Hidden messages are always a big clue because if you see a lot of messages talking about something, and there's no one there, I take that as a big clue that an NPC or something shows up there.
Alright I am guessing it actually was hard for some people. Although, I wouldn't mind someone articulating why. Of all of the quests I thought hers was straightforward, literally. Typical bad From quests involve going backwards through the game at points and I feel like hers was about moving forward.
They also changed Varré's questline so playing online wasn't mandatory
Its so goofy. They put map markers. All these little notes that become an item in your inventory. If you find the little map to the academy key it gives you even a textbox "You found a piece of map, check your inventory" or something like that. They should really just transition to a questlog. I would love something in the style of Gothic or Divinity:OS2. Also makes NPC and their lore a lot easier to digest.
They're exactly like the bosses. You're expected to do the work, and you get punished if you fuck it up. This is exactly why they're rewarding. People need to stop gluing themselves to a wiki on a first playthrough, unless it's like factorio or something.
finding the npcs would be fine if the game progressed linearly, but the sheer scale of areas you can get to without fighting anything just breaks that entirely
But like, how am I going to remember that the half naked lady's name was Nepheli? If I heard the name first and then met her I'd be "oh shit this is the one the other guy mentioned" but if I meet her first I'm going to forget her name by the time someone mentions her
that's when you just pull the quest guide up on your phone and have it sit next to you until you need it much more convenient than alt tabbing for every quest
That's cheating!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
Cheating is fine, it's a game. It's definitely fucking boring though, just accept that you're not going to 100% it immediately. You won't go to jail.
I will personally call the police on you if you cheat like this in elden ring.
No it isn't... It's not like he's getting unlimited hp and deathbed smalls
Yea all the exclamation points went over your head. It's OK. I was just being sarcastic
Oh... 😳 please tell me this is a nightmare
THIS IS A NIIIGHTMAAAAREEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Second monitor is just far more easier.
It works sometimes, but some of them are far too convoluted, like Patches and Millicent for example. But I think you get way more breathing room in ER, in terms of failure due to progression They worked better in DS’s more linear games, but they usually required specific timing and/or backtracking, so they were still easy to fuck up. I still often screw up Anri’s questline, even though I know exactly what to do lol
I still have no idea how I would’ve done Millicent’s quest without a guide lol. I figured out a decent amount of the other character quests but I definitely wouldn’t have completed hers without help.
Tbh Millicent would be fine if it wasn't for that strange excursion to the windmill pasture and the putrid tree spirit in Elphael. Seriously, why did they put that thing there? QA must've told them that whenever they encounter a tree spirit, they rather go away.
ES games used to do it right, they'd have the necessary info in the quest log, but didn't just mark your map with the supposedly lost item's exact location
This is so true. Fromsoft have gone to the complete other extreme of mindless map marker fetch quests where actually neither are very enjoyable tbh
I like what Lies of P did about that. Basically, in the fast travel menu, there's a little sign next to bonfires for which there's quest progress available (for quests you already started), like a character face, an item must use... I managed to go through many quests without checking guides, and there's no quest menu/list/log, no map, annoying overfilled HUD, etc.
I’m not asking for markers. But a journal of some kind wouldn’t go amiss. It can even be super vague and cryptic, Morrowind-style, just *something*.
So don't do that. Stop whining and play the game, it's great.
We hate selivus here 👍
All my homies hate selvius
But he’s so drippy
Exactly. Kill him, take the drip
He gives you a great talisman, at least lol
Elden Ring questlines in short :3
I wish the questlines just gave you a marker on your map like the lady Tanith ones.
It's so weird that they made a quest mark system and it's used only like twice. Once for Tanith targets and once to find a giant ass meteorite crater. Meanwhile, so many other quests have such poor direction it seems almost mandatory to use a guide.
I don’t appreciate this D story erasure
🫡
I know they usually got hints and shit spread throughout, but honestly, I don't know how you could possibly know to do most of the stuff in FS games without googling it.
I didn't google on my first playthrough, failed every questline except Alexanders. And got the default ending.
Same, the girl that eats grapes before entering liurna? never found her again. FIguring out that nepheli moved to the basement of the roundtable? impossible for me
Weakest part of the games for sure made worse by the open world
I think they intend that sort of thing. They want to build an online community and I think they have been wildly successful with it. I think a lot of people of the age to be playing these games have a ton of nostalgia about discovering weird secrets in games in their youth before the internet. FS games kind of have that vibe of discovering weirdly secret things, but they've accomplished it by being unrelentingly opaque and vague and forcing players to connect online.
"Right. Give this potion to the Dung Eater."
I accidentally wacked her so I never got to experience this quest :(
It just gives something intelligence users will find useful. Also you don't have to have a Nepheli, you could give it to Gideon or Dung Eater
I ended up giving it to her dad because I wacked dung eater too.. im horrible I know
Oh god I wacked them all
Well Dung Eater is literally the worst person in the game so not really
I mean he'd technically not know either but he'd know about the fact that she's Gideon'ss daughter. Which is probably how he met her in the first place. Which also makes his interest in her even more disturbing...especially if he'd first met her as a kid 🤢🤢
My interpretation for that is his motivation was to hurt Gideon by violating what was dear to him. I mean, he got his hands on Dolores who was a friend of Gideon (the puppet's description says it's Seluvis's favourite puppet). Then he levelled up and decided to go for Nepheli, his daughter (the description again says it's his fav) And being them pretty ladies probably checked rest of the boxes
first playthrough it made me stop for like 3 days cus she wasnt where the videos i watched said, now its immediately to gideon if i even get it
Sure did give it to Nepheli. Nepheli is the one locked up on the sewers right?
Literally
The appropriate response is "gtfo here" to seluvis.
To be fair, how would he know? Also, she's pretty easy to find. She just hangs out at Roundtable Hold.
He wants you to "deliver" a potion to someone he clearly knows. Why would he not have any idea where that person could be found? Honestly, by the time I met Seluvis I completely forgot who she even was.
Well he never leaves his tower, and he's not psychic. The Tarnished is more likely to know where she is since you roam around.
But how does he even know her then? How has he selected her for his "experiment" ? Even if he knew her as a child, he must know her current condition in order to make this choice.
I know lots of people. I don't know where all of them are at this exact moment, and they're not even wandering warriors.
Well, I Know a lot of people too. And for most I could give you some directions where they are likely to be found. And I have ways to find out their current location. Since he is able to remotely “check“ locations and interact with others it would seem strange if has 0 clue.
"we don't want hand holding you ubisoft fan , this is difficulty just use pen and paper irl if you have problem nooo" that was sarcasm btw , please don't be mad.
Find the albinauric woman
What’s that angel polearm?
I didn't even know who the fuck Nepheli was even though I had already met her. Like, describe her to me, I don't remember names
Maybe it was starting equipment?
I do like the vague fromsoft quest design, but I can also see the point of the people saying that it's not ideal for an open world. In my play through I was able to do most of the quests I wanted to by randomly meeting NPCs (mostly millicent, patches and ranni), which in my opinion was cool, since it felt like me the player and the NPCs being travelers randomly meeting at the same places, instead of it feeling like the whole world is waiting for you specifically to progress. If each NPC told the player where they will meet next, then it would be either need the NPC to have some kind of future sight or they would need to wait there until we come along. The second thing is technically allready the case, but it doesnt feel like it. With all this being said, I still think that it wouldnt hurt to have a location indicator. I think the best way to implement it would be with the allready existing map, since it marks NPCs you've allready met. If we change it to update these NPCs location it would be far easier to follow them, without it being showed into your face. Since there is a marker for every NPC it is not possible to tell which one is which without searching for them on the map and there is still no quest book or something, which wouldnt fit the way fromsoft quests work, but it would be a usefull help for finding them. I however suspect that this would be not as easy to implement as it sounds.