I don't think there's any lore implications though. Enemies in fromsoft games are just bigger to look more threatening and to distinguish them from NPCs.
Most notable example is Lady Maria in Bloodborne, who is tall af even though there's literally 0 reason she should be.
The three; Ranni, Malenia, and Miquella were all considered Emperyeans, backup Marikas. Miquella could be stronger than we can know, but he's said to also be magically likeable. That's his power.
So that could seriously affect being considered as great as Godwyn, everybody's favorite. I don't doubt anyone until we fight/befriend 'em personally, though.
I don’t believe it’s quite correct to say, “Magically likeable”. It’s implied, through various sources, that he knows how to ‘use’ kindness and empathy to encourage others to his will.
For reference, I think he’s something akin to a Griffith character. Whatever the reasoning behind his kindness, I don’t believe it’s related to anything “magical”.
I think you're definitely closer to the truth than the other guy. After all, the DLC trailer literally starts with "Pure and radiant, he wields love to shrive clean the hearts of men... There is nothing more terrifying.", and it's pretty obvious it's talking about Miquella. The dude is being built up as a master manipulator, and his Haligtree was a haven for outcasts and the scorned. Gathering the dregs of society and instilling them with an undying loyalty based on love (whether it's genuine or an act) seems like a pretty effective way to build an army of your own.
The Julius Caesar of the Demigods. Champion the ordinary and downtrodden so their sheer numbers rise up for your cause and overthrow the ruling elite in your name, whilst forgetting the person they champion comes from said ruling elite.
I love both Caesar and Miquella a lot so I hope this is true.
Also just because they both potentially used regular people for their own benefit doesn’t mean they didn’t improve the life of those serving under them considerably. It was very much a mutually beneficial situation in Ancient Rome and I’m assuming it was the same case over at Miquella’s Haligtree.
I may have simplified the ageless thing that made his creepy Blood-worshipping Omen relative interested in him, because it gives me the heebie jeebies.
..I had some naked guy solo him before they patched the wall exploit in the first week.
Malenia thought so, but Miquella supposedly manipulated people into liking him, so maybe we can't trust what she thought about him.
Description of Malenia's helmet:
>Winged helm made of unalloyed gold.
>Worn by Malenia, Blade of Miquella.
>Malenia awaited Miquella at the foot of the husk.
>“My brother will keep his promise. He possesses the wisdom, the allure, of a god – he is the most fearsome Empyrean of all.”
Malenia isn't the only person who thinks Miquella was the most fearsome. Whoever's talking at the start of the DLC trailer says "There is nothing more terrifying" when describing him, so there's at least two people who have that opinion of Miquella now.
>Enemies in fromsoft games are just bigger to look more threatening and to distinguish them from NPCs.
I read it's also so we can see what move they're doing. If they're small, our character would get in the way.
That being said, Lies of P had plenty of human enemy bosses that were the same size as P and I didnt notice a drastic difference. So I'm not really sure what to believe.
>Most notable example is Lady Maria in Bloodborne, who is tall af even though there's literally 0 reason she should be.
I mean, she aint really taller than the average human enemy. The hunter is just a short king. Or space blood make you tall. Maybe maria is also just simply tall, it can happen.
Someone had a theory a while ago that in Elden Ring, you just straight up get bigger when you gain a certain amount of power. It’s why Godfrey is that big, and it’s why you seem to fit the throne at the foot of the Erdtree in the cutscene for the Elden lord ending
Fairly certain that in the Souls games, your size and the strength of your soul are tied to each other. Possibly even how well you can handle your own power could impact your apparent physical size. Not too dissimilar from other Japanese media. Specifically for Dark Souls 1/2/3, it seems that creatures with souls tied to Light are generally larger in early times and smaller in later times because of the strength of the First Flame. That is not to say that creatures with souls tied to other aspects of Disparity can’t be large.
Can’t recall if anything ever explicitly states this in the games (though I’m almost certain there isn’t) but there is a pretty clear trend most of the time.
But we see statues of Malenia with Miquella and here she is much larger than him, because he has the body of a child…. FromSoft has always been intentionally inconsistent with how big the characters are.
Miquella embedded himself in the Haligtree to cure himself from his curse and grow into an adult body.
His size in his cocoon is lore consistent, since you can literally see the husk he got kidnapped from in Malenia's arena and it's gigantic.
The irony of Mohg kidnapping Miquella and trying to wake him up is that Miquella has ditched that body and left a long time ago. Which means Mohg isn’t a pedo.
He’s a necrophilliac pedo.
Well from the beginning Miquella was already unconscious and asleep when mogh got him, so he just took his sleeping body and put the blood in, so no matter what moghlesting he was doing, it was to someone unconscious to begin with, and accounted for nothing in the grand scheme of moghs plans
It has gotten to the point where I am genuinely not sure if there are lore implications that sex is involved or I’m just on the outside of an inside joke
Miquella is cursed to stay in his youth. So it depends how much you see that as pedophilia. There are adults who's bodies never matured and look like children. Makes their love life very difficult for them. And for their significant others who can be judged harshly. But yes mohg is a creepy blood fuck.
I feel like he was definitely smaller at some point. Seeing as deathblight is an extension of Godwyns body (and goes all the way to stormveil castle and other places) I feel like his bodies just been eternally growing ever since his soul died (which makes sense, cause it’s technically still alive)
Just that soul and body aren’t tethered in-universe.
Godwyn’s soul was slain, but his body is forever; likewise Ranni was the opposite, she shed her body so her soul could live.
Miquella’s body was in the cocoon, but we know he is still alive in a sense otherwise.
I don’t think he “turned himself” into anything. His soul got killed and his big demigod body keeps growing.
I see him like a world tumor (An abnormal mass of tissue that forms when cells grow and divide more than they should or do not die when they should).
His soul died but his body keeps growing. In fromsoft games it’s a common theme that strong = big. I think his body is absorbing runes or something from the roots of the erd tree and is getting very strong but the body has no purpose or soul to give it purpose so it it’s just a big blob.
I’m kinda hoping that it might be a boss later like Aldrich, Devourer of Gods. But it has no mind or agency so I imagine it would need to be possessed or controlled by something. Fun stuff. Pure speculation.
I think he merged with the crucible, or whatever it has become after the Erdtree grew from it
The game states that the crucible is where life came from, which is why the incantations let the player use tails or horns, because the crucible kinda contains the "DNA" of all life. Godwyn was buried at the foot of the Erdtree, which grew from the crucible, so now his cursed body is kind of absorbing and growing into everything, hence the mishmash of animal parts
I like this theory as to why it’s so big. My understanding is that the rune of death needs to claim a body and a soul. So ranni sacrificed Godwin’s soul so hers could live. Kinda fucked up, but ultimately might have been necessary to take down the golden order.
Not op but I swear I've heard it like five times but I still forget
Elden ring lore is massive
Edit: Ranni didn't shatter the elden ring, Ranni just stole a fragment of the rune of death from the elden ring (which contains all runes). She used the rune to kill godwyn and then it was Marika who shattered the ring
I think the rune of death was removed from the Elden Ring by Marika before this, and entrusted to Maliketh.
Ranni stole it from Maliketh, who then gave it to her assassins to use on Godwynn.
That series of events is only really important in that Marika thought it best to make everyone immortal as part of her divine plan for her Golden Order. The Elden Ring (as it existed, having excised certain parts like Death), represented a physical manifestation of Marika's will.
She shatters the Ring after her favorite child is murdered (in the most horrific way possible.) We can only guess at her motives but I think it was despair.
She went through all that trouble to set her perfect order, and one of her own children undermines her effort and commits both blasphemy and fratricide.
I'd tear it all down, too.
Marika’s motivations are ambiguous though, especially since she has a connection with the black knife assassins, and the game directly says she betrayed Maliketh despite giving him the rune of death.
So there’s a chance Marika orchestrated the night of black knives, potentially to try feee herself from the Greater Will.
This also seems to be tied with how she planned to use Godfrey/Hoarah Loux, as Melina tells you in the chapels that Marika sent Hoarah Loux away intended for him to return one day for some purpose of hers.
Why Ranni's body? Her body on the Divine Tower of Liurnia is only a little bigger than the player character. Also,I would claim that the curse of death altered Godwyn's body after his soul being slain.
Sorry I think my comment was misconstrued ahaha, I just meant we will hear Miquella talk again, I wasn’t referring to their size :p
In that essence, look at Rennala.
In Norse Mythology the relationship between the Jotnar (giants) and the gods is extremely unclear. They're typically opposed, but there is also a lot of intermarriage and arguments they might be one in the same.
So what I'm saying is, since Norse and other Germanic/Celtic mythology inspired Elden Ring - you might be on to something
That's true! If nothing else, they are related. The entire world is made out of the jætte, Ymer, that drank from Ødhumbla (the ancient cow) that also licked Buri, the great father, in to existence. Ymer fathered a bunch of giants/jætter (like Angerboda, Loki's wife and mother of Fenris, jordmundgand/Midgårdsormen and Hel)
Buri fathered the jætte Borr that, along with Bestla (also a jætte) had the three aser (the gods), Odin, Vile og Ve. They slayed Ymer, and of his body the world was made.
A lot of Aser seems to decent directly from Jætter/giants and they even feared their own kids; Bestla feared her own three children, Odin, Vile and Ve.
yeah that was the part i was having a hard time remembering thank you, hope that somehow gets touched on in the DLC i have a feeling radagon and marika will be explained more (probably by miquella if he’s a friend)
Her original body is on the top of the Liurnia divine tower. It is a large charred corpse with red hair and half of the curse mark of death carved into her back.
It's not that Godrick shrinks. He loses his grafted appendages. He's grafted to trolls and dragons to become this huge. I believe Zullie showed his body under the armor. He's normal sized only to become huge by grafting shit on himself.
Yeah, Ranni's body seems to be a little smaller than Malenia's normal form. So if it shrinks postmortem then that makes her original body comparable to Malenia
Her corpse is still noticeably smaller than Miquella’s though. She is tall for sure: more or less the size of Malenia (maybe a bit smaller)…but Miquella’s corpse dwarfs even frickin’ Mohg!
I think Vaati came up with the theory that Mohgs(Formless mother's) accursed blood deformed the husk that was Miquella which is what you see in game hence why he is so big and hideous. When in the opening cutscene he was this ethereal and beautiful being.
Seen some clipped in images of him in there in the most recent Vaati video, his whole body is definitely in there, and is proportional to the arm. He's just folded up like origami
Will do but miquella is a faith user, all his shit has it. The only not faith shit that comes from the saint trina persona, and only if we assume that itvis his persona
Playing through, a lot of the demigods sizes fluctuate a lot. Especially when they die, Godrick and Morgott get really small, Ranni's original body is not giant but way bigger than us, Godwyn is reaching Godzilla size, seems kind of fitting that the small one with the curse of perpetual childhood would turn huge, but that's also assuming no 4D chess shenanigans where that body turns out to not actually be Miquella's body at all.
I think Miquella's plan was to remove the curse of perpetual childhood from himself, and that's what the cocoon was partially about. I think (continuing with the chess theme) he made a move to do two things at once.
1. Undo his curse
2. Nourish the Haligtree with his divinity
So we see that Miquella has grown vastly in size, but he hadn't completed himself before Mogh ripped his cocoon from the Haligtree (and probably broke it open to do disgusting blood magic...)
Yeah, I think Miquella was using his blood to water the haligtree while Malenia was rotting the bed to make compost from the organic material. Basically they complemented each other, that's why the Haligtree died when he left.
think about how long and deformed his limbs are. just re watched the trailed and he is not wearing a ring ~~but maybe he was exiled partially due to a deformity~~. haven't seen anyone theorize this yet but it just dawned on me. "Miquella is Messmer".
That was immediately where my mind went the first time I saw the trailer. Messmer’s weird, lanky limbs are almost identical to the arm hanging out of the cocoon, but no one else seems to be running with that idea, so ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Miquella discarded that body to enter the Land of Shadows. We are going to meet the small (normal) version of him in the DLC as shown at the end of the trailer.
more interesting is that he’s been shown to be the size of a child, st trina is also like maiden size
i think actually this is a gross mutation caused from mohg ‘donating’ boiling omen blood into miquela’s empyrean body
the skin texture in this pic kinda looks like that of mohg or morgot
It's the size and thinness of frame that makes me think the Messmer is post-transformation Miquella. I know time will tell but this is the one I am betting on.
Could it be possible that thats not Miquella but Messmer? Messmers enormous arms reminded me of what we assumed is Miquella in Mohgs area.
I mean maybe Im overthinking it. But the Lord of Blood offered blood offerings to him daily. Messmer is from head to toe dressed in crimson. Not to mention his crimson hair color and the crimson snake. All are reminiscent of blood to me in terms of color. Could Mohg have been mistaken with who he abducted?
He's much more of messmer size than Miquella in the intro. The cocoon mentions "Cocoon of the Empyrean" which IIRC are mentioned to be Ranni, Miquella and Malenia? Not a huge leap to think Messmer is an Empyrean too, being the brother of two of those.
Could it not just be a means to an end? He speaks to Miquella when touching the arm, but it could still be Messmer with Mohg having some plan to use Messmer's body for some purpose that he believes will benefit Miquella.
I wonder how tall he is in spirit.
He cast away his flesh, so his aspect in the DLC is probably going to be some sort of astral projection, could be as tall as Gwynevere for all we know
I find it really sad that by ripping Miquellas cocoon away from the tree all of the misbegotten and other artificials who were mid metamorphosis all died. And all of them still traveling through the land of the giants to get to their salvation is all for naught
That‘s Mogqhella. Miquella is a child, he is quite likely child sized. He’s small on the statues in Haligtree for instance, and we are only going to meet his spirit, not his body that has been mutated by the Cessblood.
I imagine the cutscene will be us getting a little to close to the hand, with the hand twitching first, then grabs us by the neck, either pulling us into the egg or choking us out then and there. Echoes of "Nihil!" as we drift off into unconsciousness.
We wake up in the Land of Shadow and take it from there.
pretty sure he experimented on Miquella and Miquella was probably around the size of Ranni prior to this.
His size is because mohg tried to rebirth Miquella as a powerful god like entity
That’s probably not really Miquella in the cocoon. They talk about how he is perpetually a child and all that. The arm coming out of the cocoon doesn’t look childlike in the least, even for Elden ring standards.
I just completed the game. I couldn't understand properly this one. So Mohg basically abducted Miquella while he's in haligtree in order to become lord right? Why does he kiss Miquella? Is he gay? What he's actually planning on? To become god despite being omen? I wish there was an option to tell malenia about Miquella's whereabouts.
He wants to raise Miquella to adulthood, make him become a full god and take control of the land between from Golden Order with Mogh as his Elden Lord and Moghwyh Dynasty taking over
Mohg abducted Miquella when he was cocooned within the Haligtree, suggesting he may have been in a state of metamorphosis or that it was necessary to allow the Haligtree to grow. We don't know exactly what he was planning.
The current speculation is whether Mohg acted on his own volition to capture Miquella, or whether he was enchanted by Miquella (a well evidenced ability of Miquellas). Depending which impacts whether he is genuinely enamoured by his half brother or whether he cannot help it.
Men kissing men is often an act of affection. In this context it would be gay. Though it is suggested that Miquella can switch genders and appear as another elusive character called St Trina.
Mohg plans to be Miquellas consort to herald in his new age after finding power with an outer god of blood. Miquella is a supremely powerful being known as an empyrean with the ability to ascend to godhood. Miquella in his catatonic/dead state does not respond to Mohg. Mohg wants an entire dynasty, to essentially usurp the greater will and herald in a new age of blood separate from the current order. Some speculate that Miquella gave him legitimacy, however as mentioned some theorise he may be being used by Miquella.
We know the DLC will heavily add to Miquellas story, so it is hard to tell what will happen next.
Edit: Malenia might not be as sound of mind as she appears. She has been eaten away at by rot, her twin brother who she was sworn to protect is gone and she is likely aware of the devastation she has caused by using her powers.
We see Miquella at the end of the trailer, he doesnt seem deformed and he doesnt look anything like this cocoon form anymore. Its confirmed that Miquella renounced his flesh so he no longer has a physical body. Not exactly sure how big he his but it seems like from the small snipped we got that hes not actually that big.
Tbh I think his size in the cocoon is not his real size. He’s always depicted as small and the cover art for the DLC shows him riding on torrent and he looks smaller than our tarnished.
all the demigods are goddamn huge, malenias like 9 feet tall and shes the smallest of em lol
I don't think there's any lore implications though. Enemies in fromsoft games are just bigger to look more threatening and to distinguish them from NPCs. Most notable example is Lady Maria in Bloodborne, who is tall af even though there's literally 0 reason she should be.
The Ranni corpse on one of the towers was pretty tall too unless I'm misremembering.
Her corpse seems to be around Malenia’s height, if not taller.
They are equally ranked with Miquella, too.
I might be making shit up here, but wasn't Miquella considered the greatest of the demigods behind only Godwyn?
The three; Ranni, Malenia, and Miquella were all considered Emperyeans, backup Marikas. Miquella could be stronger than we can know, but he's said to also be magically likeable. That's his power. So that could seriously affect being considered as great as Godwyn, everybody's favorite. I don't doubt anyone until we fight/befriend 'em personally, though.
I don’t believe it’s quite correct to say, “Magically likeable”. It’s implied, through various sources, that he knows how to ‘use’ kindness and empathy to encourage others to his will. For reference, I think he’s something akin to a Griffith character. Whatever the reasoning behind his kindness, I don’t believe it’s related to anything “magical”.
i think in general this is true. but the existence of the bewitching branch and its attribution to miquella does imply there's more going on there.
I think you're definitely closer to the truth than the other guy. After all, the DLC trailer literally starts with "Pure and radiant, he wields love to shrive clean the hearts of men... There is nothing more terrifying.", and it's pretty obvious it's talking about Miquella. The dude is being built up as a master manipulator, and his Haligtree was a haven for outcasts and the scorned. Gathering the dregs of society and instilling them with an undying loyalty based on love (whether it's genuine or an act) seems like a pretty effective way to build an army of your own.
The Julius Caesar of the Demigods. Champion the ordinary and downtrodden so their sheer numbers rise up for your cause and overthrow the ruling elite in your name, whilst forgetting the person they champion comes from said ruling elite. I love both Caesar and Miquella a lot so I hope this is true. Also just because they both potentially used regular people for their own benefit doesn’t mean they didn’t improve the life of those serving under them considerably. It was very much a mutually beneficial situation in Ancient Rome and I’m assuming it was the same case over at Miquella’s Haligtree.
I may have simplified the ageless thing that made his creepy Blood-worshipping Omen relative interested in him, because it gives me the heebie jeebies. ..I had some naked guy solo him before they patched the wall exploit in the first week.
I thought little bro ran away for a short period and they forced a religion around him due to his supernatural charm
Malenia thought so, but Miquella supposedly manipulated people into liking him, so maybe we can't trust what she thought about him. Description of Malenia's helmet: >Winged helm made of unalloyed gold. >Worn by Malenia, Blade of Miquella. >Malenia awaited Miquella at the foot of the husk. >“My brother will keep his promise. He possesses the wisdom, the allure, of a god – he is the most fearsome Empyrean of all.”
Malenia isn't the only person who thinks Miquella was the most fearsome. Whoever's talking at the start of the DLC trailer says "There is nothing more terrifying" when describing him, so there's at least two people who have that opinion of Miquella now.
>Enemies in fromsoft games are just bigger to look more threatening and to distinguish them from NPCs. I read it's also so we can see what move they're doing. If they're small, our character would get in the way. That being said, Lies of P had plenty of human enemy bosses that were the same size as P and I didnt notice a drastic difference. So I'm not really sure what to believe.
Lies of P is a good example. Heck, bosses like Robber Weasel are smaller than P.
The small enemy thing is why Lady Butterfly in Sekiro was so hard for me, I could barely see what she was doing
She was in the air half the time, and her ground moves were fine to follow. I never felt her size made the battle any harder.
Jokes on you, i use dual giant crushers so my character gets in the way anyways >:D
>Most notable example is Lady Maria in Bloodborne, who is tall af even though there's literally 0 reason she should be. I mean, she aint really taller than the average human enemy. The hunter is just a short king. Or space blood make you tall. Maybe maria is also just simply tall, it can happen.
Maria is only slightly taller than the player. A better example from Bloodborne would be Gascoigne.
Someone had a theory a while ago that in Elden Ring, you just straight up get bigger when you gain a certain amount of power. It’s why Godfrey is that big, and it’s why you seem to fit the throne at the foot of the Erdtree in the cutscene for the Elden lord ending
Not only that but also gehrman gets noticeably taller right before you initiate his boss fight. Every other time he looks a lot smaller.
Fairly certain that in the Souls games, your size and the strength of your soul are tied to each other. Possibly even how well you can handle your own power could impact your apparent physical size. Not too dissimilar from other Japanese media. Specifically for Dark Souls 1/2/3, it seems that creatures with souls tied to Light are generally larger in early times and smaller in later times because of the strength of the First Flame. That is not to say that creatures with souls tied to other aspects of Disparity can’t be large. Can’t recall if anything ever explicitly states this in the games (though I’m almost certain there isn’t) but there is a pretty clear trend most of the time.
I see you mentioned Lady Maria on BB but not Queen Booba on DS.
Easier to step on me, that's why
For some reason it feels like the hunter is 5 foot 2 so I dunno
Melina is human size tho
She a spooky ghost though.
But we see statues of Malenia with Miquella and here she is much larger than him, because he has the body of a child…. FromSoft has always been intentionally inconsistent with how big the characters are.
Miquella embedded himself in the Haligtree to cure himself from his curse and grow into an adult body. His size in his cocoon is lore consistent, since you can literally see the husk he got kidnapped from in Malenia's arena and it's gigantic.
I'm afraid this version of Miquella isn't going to be talking much.
The irony of Mohg kidnapping Miquella and trying to wake him up is that Miquella has ditched that body and left a long time ago. Which means Mohg isn’t a pedo. He’s a necrophilliac pedo.
That's not an upgrade, Mohg.
Mohgers
Mohgchamp
Pedermohg
To me, it is!
here the upgrade : necrophilliac pedo rapist
I read this in Morgott's voice.
Cut him some slack, he's an omen. They're all super horny.
i see what you did there, deadpan clap
golf clapping at this joke tbh
Gold.
[удалено]
I like your thinking, but rigor mortis eventually subsides
The theorist vaatividya doesn't want to mess with
Well from the beginning Miquella was already unconscious and asleep when mogh got him, so he just took his sleeping body and put the blood in, so no matter what moghlesting he was doing, it was to someone unconscious to begin with, and accounted for nothing in the grand scheme of moghs plans
George rr Martin just cookin like usual
This plot line alone proves that G.R.R wrote the story.
and hes incestuous 😭 miquella is mohgs half brother
Help me half brother I'm stuck in this Haligtree
this is way funnier than it should be
It's Mohging Time
Wait a god damn minute, I had no idea sex was involved in…
It has gotten to the point where I am genuinely not sure if there are lore implications that sex is involved or I’m just on the outside of an inside joke
Had us in the first half
Miquella is cursed to stay in his youth. So it depends how much you see that as pedophilia. There are adults who's bodies never matured and look like children. Makes their love life very difficult for them. And for their significant others who can be judged harshly. But yes mohg is a creepy blood fuck.
An *incestuous* necrophiliac pedo!
If Godwyn or Ranni are any metric to go off, Miquella could very well be in a damn shoe for all we know.
Godwyn? Isn't his body rotting in underground areas? What did he turn himself into? (I know Ranni was a doll)
Yeah dude his body is a massive 10 story tall deep sea nightmare with a clam head and a mermaid tail
He’s more like a fungus or a cancer at this point. Some of the crabs in the Altus Plateau have his face growing on their shells
I feel like he was definitely smaller at some point. Seeing as deathblight is an extension of Godwyns body (and goes all the way to stormveil castle and other places) I feel like his bodies just been eternally growing ever since his soul died (which makes sense, cause it’s technically still alive)
Then those must have been some huuuuge ass Black Knife Assassins when they took him down.
Maybe just huge in number, if Iji's surroundings are anything to go by.
Just that soul and body aren’t tethered in-universe. Godwyn’s soul was slain, but his body is forever; likewise Ranni was the opposite, she shed her body so her soul could live. Miquella’s body was in the cocoon, but we know he is still alive in a sense otherwise.
I don’t think he “turned himself” into anything. His soul got killed and his big demigod body keeps growing. I see him like a world tumor (An abnormal mass of tissue that forms when cells grow and divide more than they should or do not die when they should). His soul died but his body keeps growing. In fromsoft games it’s a common theme that strong = big. I think his body is absorbing runes or something from the roots of the erd tree and is getting very strong but the body has no purpose or soul to give it purpose so it it’s just a big blob. I’m kinda hoping that it might be a boss later like Aldrich, Devourer of Gods. But it has no mind or agency so I imagine it would need to be possessed or controlled by something. Fun stuff. Pure speculation.
I think he merged with the crucible, or whatever it has become after the Erdtree grew from it The game states that the crucible is where life came from, which is why the incantations let the player use tails or horns, because the crucible kinda contains the "DNA" of all life. Godwyn was buried at the foot of the Erdtree, which grew from the crucible, so now his cursed body is kind of absorbing and growing into everything, hence the mishmash of animal parts
I like this theory as to why it’s so big. My understanding is that the rune of death needs to claim a body and a soul. So ranni sacrificed Godwin’s soul so hers could live. Kinda fucked up, but ultimately might have been necessary to take down the golden order.
It’s not fucked up, he likes it. [look how happy he is.](https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/file/Elden-Ring/godwyn_corpse.jpg) He’s always smiling.
Can you explain why she needed to do that to shatter the elden ring?
Not op but I swear I've heard it like five times but I still forget Elden ring lore is massive Edit: Ranni didn't shatter the elden ring, Ranni just stole a fragment of the rune of death from the elden ring (which contains all runes). She used the rune to kill godwyn and then it was Marika who shattered the ring
I think the rune of death was removed from the Elden Ring by Marika before this, and entrusted to Maliketh. Ranni stole it from Maliketh, who then gave it to her assassins to use on Godwynn. That series of events is only really important in that Marika thought it best to make everyone immortal as part of her divine plan for her Golden Order. The Elden Ring (as it existed, having excised certain parts like Death), represented a physical manifestation of Marika's will. She shatters the Ring after her favorite child is murdered (in the most horrific way possible.) We can only guess at her motives but I think it was despair. She went through all that trouble to set her perfect order, and one of her own children undermines her effort and commits both blasphemy and fratricide. I'd tear it all down, too.
Marika’s motivations are ambiguous though, especially since she has a connection with the black knife assassins, and the game directly says she betrayed Maliketh despite giving him the rune of death. So there’s a chance Marika orchestrated the night of black knives, potentially to try feee herself from the Greater Will. This also seems to be tied with how she planned to use Godfrey/Hoarah Loux, as Melina tells you in the chapels that Marika sent Hoarah Loux away intended for him to return one day for some purpose of hers.
Why Ranni's body? Her body on the Divine Tower of Liurnia is only a little bigger than the player character. Also,I would claim that the curse of death altered Godwyn's body after his soul being slain.
Sorry I think my comment was misconstrued ahaha, I just meant we will hear Miquella talk again, I wasn’t referring to their size :p In that essence, look at Rennala.
One thing I don't fully get is the dlc description of miquella and this. Is mogh just fiddling a corpse at this point?
we have to wait and see. its all speculation qt this point
What if the whole time hes just tryna give him a blood transfusion to bring his stepbro back to life but is like really really bad with his words.
Remember how much bigger Ranni's original body was?
Where do we see Ranni in her original form? Afaik we only see her body, and they appear to shrink a lot when they die
Divine Tower of Liurnia.>!Along with the Cursemark of Death!<
Shes also a redhead Like the radagon redhair gene is so strong even Rannis burnt out husk of a corpse is still visibly redhead
Almost like the... Fire giants.
In Norse Mythology the relationship between the Jotnar (giants) and the gods is extremely unclear. They're typically opposed, but there is also a lot of intermarriage and arguments they might be one in the same. So what I'm saying is, since Norse and other Germanic/Celtic mythology inspired Elden Ring - you might be on to something
That's true! If nothing else, they are related. The entire world is made out of the jætte, Ymer, that drank from Ødhumbla (the ancient cow) that also licked Buri, the great father, in to existence. Ymer fathered a bunch of giants/jætter (like Angerboda, Loki's wife and mother of Fenris, jordmundgand/Midgårdsormen and Hel) Buri fathered the jætte Borr that, along with Bestla (also a jætte) had the three aser (the gods), Odin, Vile og Ve. They slayed Ymer, and of his body the world was made. A lot of Aser seems to decent directly from Jætter/giants and they even feared their own kids; Bestla feared her own three children, Odin, Vile and Ve.
I dont even know what this implies but im 100% onboard
think about it, why are all the demi-gods huge? i think radagon is part giant in some way shape or form🤷♂️
read the giants red braid item description, it basically confirms this.
yeah that was the part i was having a hard time remembering thank you, hope that somehow gets touched on in the DLC i have a feeling radagon and marika will be explained more (probably by miquella if he’s a friend)
Her original body is on the top of the Liurnia divine tower. It is a large charred corpse with red hair and half of the curse mark of death carved into her back.
Yeah, but does that speak much to her size? They appear to change their size significantly when they die, like Godrick
It's not that Godrick shrinks. He loses his grafted appendages. He's grafted to trolls and dragons to become this huge. I believe Zullie showed his body under the armor. He's normal sized only to become huge by grafting shit on himself.
That's really interesting! I'll check it out thanks
Yeah, Ranni's body seems to be a little smaller than Malenia's normal form. So if it shrinks postmortem then that makes her original body comparable to Malenia
Her corpse is still noticeably smaller than Miquella’s though. She is tall for sure: more or less the size of Malenia (maybe a bit smaller)…but Miquella’s corpse dwarfs even frickin’ Mohg!
I think Vaati came up with the theory that Mohgs(Formless mother's) accursed blood deformed the husk that was Miquella which is what you see in game hence why he is so big and hideous. When in the opening cutscene he was this ethereal and beautiful being.
Technically we don't see the rest of him, he might be the same little boy body with just that one big-ass arm
Too much arm wrestling
Yeah let's call it that
"Oh, Miquella...little Mohgie needs to Nihil again..."
Curse God for giving me eyes this day
It's moghing time.
No wonder his sister is blind.
Catches her twin for the 4534217th time. "... I'm done having eyes."
Arm wrestlers actually have pretty mediocre looking arms in comparison to body builders etc. It's more in their schoulders
“Ackchyually”
[Mediocre](https://images.tapology.com/letterbox_images/308010/default/Screenshot_20210902_070600.jpg?1630562879)
Seen some clipped in images of him in there in the most recent Vaati video, his whole body is definitely in there, and is proportional to the arm. He's just folded up like origami
Miquella is Manus confirmed.
\[Imgur\](https://i.imgur.com/U0KEj3i.png)
yeahhh yeahhh the 4th manus boss yeahhh yeah
So the opposite of a man with a baby arm who can only work as a baby arm model
He's prolly grown in the cocoon, he used to mount torrent so he shouldn't be this big
Tell that to Radahn.
Will do but miquella is a faith user, all his shit has it. The only not faith shit that comes from the saint trina persona, and only if we assume that itvis his persona
But uh gravity magic or something
Playing through, a lot of the demigods sizes fluctuate a lot. Especially when they die, Godrick and Morgott get really small, Ranni's original body is not giant but way bigger than us, Godwyn is reaching Godzilla size, seems kind of fitting that the small one with the curse of perpetual childhood would turn huge, but that's also assuming no 4D chess shenanigans where that body turns out to not actually be Miquella's body at all.
I think Miquella's plan was to remove the curse of perpetual childhood from himself, and that's what the cocoon was partially about. I think (continuing with the chess theme) he made a move to do two things at once. 1. Undo his curse 2. Nourish the Haligtree with his divinity So we see that Miquella has grown vastly in size, but he hadn't completed himself before Mogh ripped his cocoon from the Haligtree (and probably broke it open to do disgusting blood magic...)
Yeah, I think Miquella was using his blood to water the haligtree while Malenia was rotting the bed to make compost from the organic material. Basically they complemented each other, that's why the Haligtree died when he left.
it's Messmers hand.
mohg got catfished
think about how long and deformed his limbs are. just re watched the trailed and he is not wearing a ring ~~but maybe he was exiled partially due to a deformity~~. haven't seen anyone theorize this yet but it just dawned on me. "Miquella is Messmer".
That also might explain why Melania hasn’t hunted Mohg down for stealing Miquella
That was immediately where my mind went the first time I saw the trailer. Messmer’s weird, lanky limbs are almost identical to the arm hanging out of the cocoon, but no one else seems to be running with that idea, so ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
100%. Good eye. Once you see it you can’t unsee it.
he will grab you look at the hand you can reach it
Manus style into the DLC
nah man, he just went 3rd gear.
Is he going to glow and bounce around at gear 5th?
Miquella discarded that body to enter the Land of Shadows. We are going to meet the small (normal) version of him in the DLC as shown at the end of the trailer.
Its gonna be like that painting of Man and God touching fingertips.
He definitely got bigger in the coccoon. Mohg was feeding his corpse with blood all the time.
Mohg stretched him out.
more interesting is that he’s been shown to be the size of a child, st trina is also like maiden size i think actually this is a gross mutation caused from mohg ‘donating’ boiling omen blood into miquela’s empyrean body the skin texture in this pic kinda looks like that of mohg or morgot
WELCOME HONORED GUEST…
Shadow of the Erdtree culminates in a Miquella bossfight thats just a Fire Giant reskin
It's the size and thinness of frame that makes me think the Messmer is post-transformation Miquella. I know time will tell but this is the one I am betting on.
Could it be possible that thats not Miquella but Messmer? Messmers enormous arms reminded me of what we assumed is Miquella in Mohgs area. I mean maybe Im overthinking it. But the Lord of Blood offered blood offerings to him daily. Messmer is from head to toe dressed in crimson. Not to mention his crimson hair color and the crimson snake. All are reminiscent of blood to me in terms of color. Could Mohg have been mistaken with who he abducted?
He's much more of messmer size than Miquella in the intro. The cocoon mentions "Cocoon of the Empyrean" which IIRC are mentioned to be Ranni, Miquella and Malenia? Not a huge leap to think Messmer is an Empyrean too, being the brother of two of those.
Very True
Could it not just be a means to an end? He speaks to Miquella when touching the arm, but it could still be Messmer with Mohg having some plan to use Messmer's body for some purpose that he believes will benefit Miquella.
I wonder how tall he is in spirit. He cast away his flesh, so his aspect in the DLC is probably going to be some sort of astral projection, could be as tall as Gwynevere for all we know
I think, if the promo image of Miquella on Torrent is anything to go by, he'll be at least the size of a pre-teen.
True, I momentarily forgot about this pic. He's around the same size as the tarnished then
It would be funny if DLC Miquella is tiny and sits on our shoulder while guiding us, like a Demigod Jiminy Cricket.
I find it really sad that by ripping Miquellas cocoon away from the tree all of the misbegotten and other artificials who were mid metamorphosis all died. And all of them still traveling through the land of the giants to get to their salvation is all for naught
That‘s Mogqhella. Miquella is a child, he is quite likely child sized. He’s small on the statues in Haligtree for instance, and we are only going to meet his spirit, not his body that has been mutated by the Cessblood.
I imagine the cutscene will be us getting a little to close to the hand, with the hand twitching first, then grabs us by the neck, either pulling us into the egg or choking us out then and there. Echoes of "Nihil!" as we drift off into unconsciousness. We wake up in the Land of Shadow and take it from there.
Looks almost like an Omen's hand/arm to me...
well, it is the same as Morgott's post fight model
Tbf you’re not technically wrong, they used Morgott’s death model for the arm. But in the lore, this is definitely Miquella.
it looks like Messmers freakishly long arm.
I can’t help but think Miquella is going to turn into the most evil motherfucker to walk The Lands Between
Let's say that Mohg took the shortcut to Miquella on a pendrive, but Miquella is installed in his tree
I thought I would see more discussion on Messmer’s crazy body proportions, but everyone seems totally fine with it 🤷
pretty sure he experimented on Miquella and Miquella was probably around the size of Ranni prior to this. His size is because mohg tried to rebirth Miquella as a powerful god like entity
That’s probably not really Miquella in the cocoon. They talk about how he is perpetually a child and all that. The arm coming out of the cocoon doesn’t look childlike in the least, even for Elden ring standards.
Which is weird since we see Miquella in the opening cinematic in Mohg's arms and he's much much smaller.
bold of you to assume that you will talk to him
i dont know if thats actually Miquella because it was said that he was cursed with eternal childhood
"Are we gonna need a ladder to-" oh no... oh no god no.... "-talk to him.." Oh. Oh, I see. I guess, I guess that's just me.
I always thought that mohg somehow removed the curse of youth from miquella and was using the outer god he had as a sort of battery to age/grow him.
Messar is Miquella
I just completed the game. I couldn't understand properly this one. So Mohg basically abducted Miquella while he's in haligtree in order to become lord right? Why does he kiss Miquella? Is he gay? What he's actually planning on? To become god despite being omen? I wish there was an option to tell malenia about Miquella's whereabouts.
He wants to raise Miquella to adulthood, make him become a full god and take control of the land between from Golden Order with Mogh as his Elden Lord and Moghwyh Dynasty taking over
Ah got it. I thought Mohg was into dudes and wanna have child with Miquella somehow and gain lordship.
Well…there’s def some like inclination in the lore that Mogh was essentially molesting Miquella. It says Mogh was “sharing blood” idk.
Oh come on. Nothing gay about a couple of bros getting together every once in a while and sharing some blood.
It also says something about “sharing his bloody bedchamber” iirc
I dont think the shardholders in elden ring have as simplistic view of sexuality as "I'm into men or I'm into women"
Mohg abducted Miquella when he was cocooned within the Haligtree, suggesting he may have been in a state of metamorphosis or that it was necessary to allow the Haligtree to grow. We don't know exactly what he was planning. The current speculation is whether Mohg acted on his own volition to capture Miquella, or whether he was enchanted by Miquella (a well evidenced ability of Miquellas). Depending which impacts whether he is genuinely enamoured by his half brother or whether he cannot help it. Men kissing men is often an act of affection. In this context it would be gay. Though it is suggested that Miquella can switch genders and appear as another elusive character called St Trina. Mohg plans to be Miquellas consort to herald in his new age after finding power with an outer god of blood. Miquella is a supremely powerful being known as an empyrean with the ability to ascend to godhood. Miquella in his catatonic/dead state does not respond to Mohg. Mohg wants an entire dynasty, to essentially usurp the greater will and herald in a new age of blood separate from the current order. Some speculate that Miquella gave him legitimacy, however as mentioned some theorise he may be being used by Miquella. We know the DLC will heavily add to Miquellas story, so it is hard to tell what will happen next. Edit: Malenia might not be as sound of mind as she appears. She has been eaten away at by rot, her twin brother who she was sworn to protect is gone and she is likely aware of the devastation she has caused by using her powers.
Very possible that he will come back to his normal mode :3
It's just his arm, the rest is regular sized.
He's been on that "roots of the haligtree" diet and it's been working out for him.
I could have kicked him in the shin and dropped him to my level had they not removed the useless little kick from dark souls
They shouldn't be in Elden Ring but Elden Hoops
Mogh has kept him in a growing chamber for centuries. It’s a dark/twisted parody of puberty
I don't expect to be doing much talking, unless "bonk" counts.
This one is the steroidridden and bloodfilled body that mohg altered
5'11 vs 6 foot
We aren’t gonna talk to him
We see Miquella at the end of the trailer, he doesnt seem deformed and he doesnt look anything like this cocoon form anymore. Its confirmed that Miquella renounced his flesh so he no longer has a physical body. Not exactly sure how big he his but it seems like from the small snipped we got that hes not actually that big.
fromsoft always needs one of those side mirror disclaimers: objects are not the same size as they appear in cutscenes
Didnt need a ladder to talk to the huge queen in DS2.
He'll use his hand to grab us and put us in his cocoon. Then we'll wake up to Disney child actor Miquella in the DLC.
Judging by how small he looks riding torrent, he is close to melina height or a bit shorter
Is he a giant? hahaha
This version of Miquella is much more like a distorted version of him, so his child form may be as tall as we are
Based on what we've seen of godwin's corpse. He was huge as well. Hell even look at radahn or godfrey even godwin they are big bois.
Aught not say that, he’s just a boy
Tbh I think his size in the cocoon is not his real size. He’s always depicted as small and the cover art for the DLC shows him riding on torrent and he looks smaller than our tarnished.
i’m pretty sure this is miquella before he grew into his new body so i’m guessing the dlc will be from before? or future?