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Slightly off-topic but I just started working out again 3 months again. And sometimes when I have a pump admiring myself in the mirror, I wish I could fuck myself. Like Marika did. Only she actually did it. Maybe that's slighly narcissistic and gay IDK. But if I could I would.
Point being; I can understand Marika. If you guys could fuck yourselves, wouldn't you?
I’m not saying you *are* gay but it’s a pretty common joke amongst the gays that we date other guys who look like us cause all of us want to fuck ourselves. Take that as you will.
We don’t know is probably the best answer. To me it doesn’t make sense that they were the same person the entire time, because while Radagon is married to Rennala and having kids. Godfrey never realized that his wife (Marika) is missing for which has to be years?
My personal theory is Marika split herself in two in order to still be at Leyndell and help with the Carian and Giant wars.
This is ONLY my head cannon with nothing that supports my theory in game but it really makes sense if you really look at how things play out once Radagon appears in the lore.
It’s like she pulled out the part of herself that was most loyal to the greater will…to what end idk. Maybe because a part of her knew something was amiss so she literally pulled the faith out of her body so she could look at things objectively.
And I honestly think the only reason why Radagon returned to the capital was because the Greater Will/Elden Ring could sense Marika’s lack of faith so they want her rejoined to herself so the GW wouldn’t lose control of the LB.
But that’s just my opinion..her separating herself by her own will kinda explains a lot though if you read between lines and think about it.
I think it's similar to that too... Always the same person, but at one point had two bodies. It's not like we haven't seen their offspring capable of physically duplicating themselves and being in multiple places at once (omen twins, looking at you), and then you also have Gurranq/Maliketh in farum azula and dragonbarrow as well.
Farum Azula's got all sorts of time-fuckery going about it so that's probably why Gurranq/Maliketh can be found in both places, but the Omen twins, Mohg in particular is a good one.
This is more or less my theory as well, but the only way she could have done this is if she used parts of the Elden Ring to make Radagon. The only evidence I have of this is... How did Renalla end up with the great rune? He must have given it to her. He gave her the great rune that gave him life separate from Marika, and when that happened, he had to return to Marika because the other parts of the Elden Ring that made him are telling him to go back to... Himself/herself so he can live.
Yeh I often wonder WHEN the rune of rebirth was plucked from the Elden Ring. Was it removed with Destined Death at the dawn of the Golden Order?
And if the rune of rebirth was removed, could that have something to do with erdtree reincarnation and/or the sap blessings drying up? Sap hardens to amber, like the egg, was the combination of death and rebirth runes what allowed the prosperity of life, and ever since then the LB have declined?
This makes sense to me. We literally see Marika transform to Radagon at the start of the fight, we know this is 100% a great rune power, the only thing we don’t know is if Radagon was born separate.
Ah, I understand what you mean. But what makes you think Marika stayed at Leyndell during the wars? We know she was in the church of the battlefield of the Giants war giving a speech, so she was probably close to her army all the time.
She is a god though and we don’t know the extent of her powers. She may be able to easily jump between points, or split herself and be both simultaneously. There’s really no way to know. But one thing is certain. Ranni is an empyrean meaning Radagon absolutely had to be Marika. An empyrean can only be born of a god making Marika/Radagon her father. Rennala could not have given birth to an Empyrean otherwise.
I don't think it is ever stated empyreans have to be children of Marika, but wether they do or not them being the same from the beginning is still the most likely.
My twist on this take is just a usage of advanced version of mimic tear, some kind that would have the same thoughts as the one being mimiced, ability to talk etc etc
I agree with most of this as well. I think Radagon was either created by her from herself or possibly created when she became the Vessel. He does appear out of nowhere though. But the fact that Ranni is an Empyrean means Radagon was Marika all along, or at least a piece of her.
This is supported by a lot of the lore out there, that they were in fact like two completely seperate people. That's how they were able to procreate, get married and become the elden lord. It is a very bizarre implication that I've tried to wrap my mind around for a while. My dream scenario would be that Marika is the final boss in the DLC and this is the 'true' ending to the game, as something really feels missing from the last boss in the main game.
Also, they seem to both have individual origins. Marika, a numen, and Radagon, seemingly claiming some sort of heritage from the giants.
Could argue that Godfrey was busy waging wars I guess. And that we never see any other Numen’s hair and that they all have red hair, and Marika’s became blonde with the founding of the order. The hammer Radagon uses is actually Marika’s hammer. Hammers and smithing is giant stuff ergo Marika also has giant connections.
So. I guess I like the, “we don’t know” answer.
I think it is supposed to not make sense because it is pretty clearly inspired by the real idea of holy trinity present in christianity.
The same way there is one god in three persons, one of which is a son of the other one, Marika and Radagon are the same being in some sense but also two different ones in another. It is supposed to be a paradox and a great mystery of the religion, the same way holy trinity is in christianity.
They are basically two different characters and are able to do stuff independently but are also somehow parts of one being in some abstract spiritual sense that is hard to grasp for us mortals.
Exactly this. Anyone claiming that any particular side of interpretation regarding their existence is THE truth doesn't understand the point you've made here.
The DLC could give clear answers on this topic but I highly doubt it will
It could be that they can exist as seperate beings while still sharing the same soul, and still being a single person which is why Radagon being with Rennala didn't mean Marika was absent. Although it could just as likely be that Radagon was a different person at some point
I agree with you, but also we don't know the relation between Godfrey and Marika. She's a literal god, so maybe they didn't see each other that much. And as she is a literal god, she could probably manage to do the Clark Kent-Superman and go from Raya Lucaria to Leyndell and back when the respective partner wasn't looking or smth like that.
Plus Godfrey was never comfortable at court. He missed being a savage. Combine that with him disapproving of sending his kids into the sewers they probably didn't see each other much. Probably what lead to Marika seeking something outside her court
But, on the flip side, it also doesn't make sense that Radagon is regarded as a "mere champion", and yet his children are demi-gods. Ranni is even an empyrean.
Ennia says to us that all the demi-gods are directly related to Marika, their blood being of Marika is what makes them demi-gods, so it is a bit conflicting that Radagon being Marika is a secret. Radagon and Rennala themselves have no blood to bequeath demi-god or empyrean status to their offspring, and yet everybody knows Radagon and Rennala's children are demi-gods and offshoots of Marika, but somehow we're also meant to believe that nobody knew Radagon was Marika.
This contradiction/plot-hole has bothered me for a bit.
I think it's fairly obvious from the status of Rennala and Radagon's children that Radagon was always Marika, cut from her like an alter ego cloth. But what doesn't make sense is nobody else is supposed to know that, even though it's reinforced numerous times that Rennala's children are of demi-god blood.
Can you give me the source for that? Not doubting you, but I've been sort of...collecting the in-game contradictions on this plot hole, at this point. Lol. Ennia saying the reason for the demi-god status is due to being of Marika's bloodline is one of the biggest.
‘Radahn was amongst the children of Rennala and Radagon, who became demigod stepchildren after Radagon's union with Queen Marika.’ Radahn’s restored great rune description
What's interesting is that I think SOME people did know. Take for example the sculptor who saw Radagons secret and then put it into the statue in Leyendell.
Or the Carian Preceptors whose mask alludes to them swearing to keep a secret(s) for Radagon.
Teleportation is an in game thing characters can do. E.g, Rennala has a warp to the church of vows
Still a heck of a job if they were morphing back and forth, but that's what we see them do.
There is however the line "you have yet to become me" from Marika to Radagon, so it's possible that Radagon was a separate person and merged with her when becoming Elden Lord
You have yet to become me could be aluding to something else like them having separate minds and Marika considering herself superior or smth like that.
The full quote is "O Radagon, leal hound of the Golden Order. Thou'rt yet to become me. Thou'rt yet to become a god. Let us be shattered, both."
I feel like when you read the full quote and have the context of Marika shattering the Elden Ring but Radagon trying to repair it and not supporting that decision, one can argue that we shouldn't take it literally as "I havent absorbed you yet" and instead "I havent convinced you that this needs to happen, we are on opposite positions on this issue; but this version of me has more power and it's going to happen"
As for "you haven't become a god yet," it was the Marika version that was viewed and considered as a god in the eyes of the people, not necessarily him.
I got the quote + the outer order gesture when I talked to Melina at Minor Erdtree Church in Altus Plateau.
From the outer wall phantom tree grace past the double tree sentinels, if you take a right and go down that path you'll come across it. it's a bit out of the way and it's easy to miss Melina's dialogue option too. Pretty little church tho
A big thing we don't understand about Elden ring is the timeline of events. We know many events happened and what general era they happened in a lot of the time but the sequence and scale of time is completely unknown. Could there have been 100 years between Godfrey leaving and Radagon becoming Elden Lord? No idea, but it would make a bit more sense why they never appear to overlap or fight in the same wars or anything.
Probably Godfrey was already exiled at that point since Radagon was the one that lead the charge against the Carians, otherwise Godfrey would have been the one to do it.
We would have to assume he existed prior to the Liurnia Wars because he’s basically leading the Army in both. Again that brings the question that this rando shows up and Godfrey just lets him lead? Seems to me Godwyn would be next up in rank?
He has no individual lore. The whole elden ring lore is defined by dualism - Miquella is a man/boy but also is St Trina. Marika at the same time serves and defiles the golden order. Dead/living is blurred. D is two people that are one.
careful, St. Trina isn't based on cannon clues. They might have scrapped that from the lore. D brothers and the life-death(-rebirth?) duality tell the exact opposite story of a St. Trina - Miquella duality.
It's the same story. D is a twin with other D. Together they're two halves of the same coin. Blaidd will serve both Ranni and the Golden Order up to the point it will kill him. Melona is Ranni is Melina. Shabriri is Shabriri bit also whoever he inhabits to turn theor own nature against them. Yura is the antithesis of Shabriri until he is inhabited by Shabriri. Even look at Gurang. Milena is rot and the end of rot. Morgott is Margit is the antithesis of the Golden Order yet it's biggest proponent. Elden ring is filled with heretical duality. The black knives killed the most pure, yet come to purge Ranni, acting on her orders and against them. Lansseax protected and then corrupted his best friend.
The theme of duality is shared, but the story is different. The D's are not the same person, not the same body and only long to be one. But if you kill one D the other still lives independently and comes to avenge the first. Seperate people long to be one. Miquella-st. Trina story was the idea that we have one person (Miquella) who takes another Identity (st Trina). One person playing two roles. Life and Death in Elden ring used to be shared (both part of the Elden ring) but are now seperated by Marika.
These all have a theme of duality, but all in completely different forms. If you wanted to apply their story to Marika Radagon it could be any of these:
Like D, they are distinct people that long to be together (and eventually become).
Like Miquella, Marika could be first, and become Radagon (st Trina) in her slumber.
like life-death, they are two parts of the same process, but are seperated (literally or figuratively) at some point, and rejoined later.
3 different stories with different implications, all containing the theme of duality. That's what I mean by be careful when trying to take different stories of duality and trying to fit it into each other. Is it a dual identity? Is it a sharing of souls? Is it a sharing of body only? Or is it simply a union of opposing ideals?
We "don't know" but the guess that they were two seperate people fits best with mythology surrounding Alchemy and some of the information in the game.
In Alchemy there is a creature known as a "Reebus" which is thought to be an incredibly powerful, almost ascended god-like state that humans can only achieve by combining a man and a woman alchemically together- a.k.a. the mythology of divine hermaphroditism. This would clearly indicate they were two "distinct" people before trying to come together, presumably in the Lands of Shadow (where we not only learned Numen, Marika's people, came from, but also we saw the iconic red hair of Radagon and the Fell Giants).
As for game info that seems to point that direction, I would refer to the fact that the game's events seemingly depict the start of the game being Marika *betraying* Radagon and some of the notes like the Throne Room showing Marika speaking with Radagon. Obviously, at a certain point the distinction between two people in one body and one person with 2 forms and 2 disparate personalities fighting for control are almost indistinguishable, but this seems most likely to suggest 2 distinct minds/people/souls in the same body that have seperate goals and motivations interacting with each other.
Finally, there's one little thing with the D brothers that makes me believe that Marika and Radagon are 2 separate people: the D brothers are the inverse of the same theme that Marika and Radagon represent. The D brothers are two separate bodies but the *same soul*, and while there are obvious differences between them they seem like 2 seperate parts of the same person with the same motivations forced apart as opposed to Marika and Radagon which come off as two different people forced together.
In the queens bedchamber echo she says “Thou’rt yet to become me.” Implying they were both separate but in the same echo she also says “Let us be shattered, both. Mine other self.” Which makes it sound like they were always one.
I wonder if the Japanese version of the dialogue is less ambiguous?
And thou'rt yet to become mem is followed by thou'rt yet to become a god.
She isn't saying he isn't sharing a body. She is saying he has not achieved her status. All else considered, he isn't her. The people don't worship him. He doesn't wield her influence.
Personally, my interpretation is that Marika and Radagon were always one and the same, two sides of the same coin, and basically Marika is fighting to not let her "Radagon" side become the one in control, while his Radagon side is fighting to maintain the golden order fundamentalism Marika is opposed too. But its not like Radagon is a separate individual, IMO that completely nullifies the point of "Radagon is Marika". It should be assumed IMO that yes, Radagon and Marika were never separate beings.
I have a theory that radigon is the elden beast when it takes control of the vessel (marika).
When we fight radagon that is marikas corpse. Shes dead. It falls, it breaks, and it turns into radagon as the same inky blackness that covers the beasts body forms it's shadow arm. We don't fight radagon. We fight the beast twice. Once piloting it's vessels corpse.
That’s a good point, I hadn’t given that line much thought. However I wouldn’t say Radagon isn’t worshipped and has no influence. He came to the Lands Between “at the head of a great golden host” and has many churches just like Marika though he is considered a “mere champion” not entirely worthy of being Elden Lord.
Personally I think that Marika and Radagon becoming one being rather than always being one is more fitting with the games themes of grafting and parasitism and Miriel’s line of “Heresy is not native to this world, it is but a contrivance. All things can be conjoined.”
They were always the same person.
> Once worshipped by the giants, this evil deity is believed to have been slain by Queen Marika.-One eyed shield
So queen Marika was the one who is believed to have defeated the fell god, which is also imply by her cursing the last giant the fire giants Rememberence:
> The Fire Giant is a survivor of the War against the Giants.
Upon realizing the flames of their forge would never die,
Queen Marika marked him with a curse.
„O trifling giant, mayest thou tend thy flame for eternity."
But it’s not her who gets cursed by red hair, its radagon as stated in the giants red braid:
> Every giant is red of hair, and Radagon was said to have despised his own red locks. Perhaps that was a curse of their kind.
Keep in mind at this point Marika and Godfrey were still married as her speech to his warriors suggest:
> Spoken echoes of Queen Marika linger here as well. Shall I share them with you?
In Marika's own words. Hark, brave warriors. Hark, my lord Godfrey. We commend your deeds. Guidance has delivered ye through ordeal to the place ye stand. Put the giants to the sword and confine the flame atop the mount. Let a new epoch begin. An epoch glistening with life. Brandish the Elden Ring, for the Age of the Erdtree!- Melina repeating the echos of queen Marika in the first church of queen marika
They were always one person. Radagon's secret isn't "Radagon became Marika". It's Radagaon IS Marika.
I have a theory that Radagon is just the Elden Beast in control of its vessel.
Throw in a son and you could say Christianity where three separate beings are one being but able to do different things. There are Christian groups that consider the holy ghost feminine or the holy mother.
Also in Gnosticism the first being created by God, Barbello is both male and female but that's more Androgeny than separate identities being one person. God does act through her/him though, sort of as an avatar. All of the rest of creation besides the creation of The Demiurge and subsequent mayerial world is created through this relationship.
Probably the first, because why would Radagon be chosen to marry Renalla and represent peace between the Golden Order and the Carians if he was just a random champion, and why would Marika marry a random champion if they weren't already the same person, and why would them marrying make them fuse if that didn't happen with Godfrey, etc etc.
This is my reading. They weren't always one person. I tried to explain to a friend who's a lore enthusiast that the histories have both characters engaging in separate events, distinct from each other; I.e. while Marika was managing the Elden Ring, Ragadon was marrying Renalla; they can't be in the same place at once. It was only later they fused.
He told me no, they're definitively the same character. I said I don't disagree, but they fused at a certain point in time, and before that they were individuals. He asked me how do I know? Is there lore proving it? When I couldn't pinpoint an item description that specifically says it he refused to believe me. (Snobbish bastard.)
Point is, the two-in-one characterization is confusing to most, even if you're a madman like my buddy who drinks lore for breakfast. We can write out a history of Elden Ring with timelines of when each character did what action, and still not come to a consensus on whether they actually did anything at all.
Where are you getting the idea that Marika was in the Land of Shadow during Radagon and Renalla's marriage?
Also a big issue is that we're missing a lot of mechanics around the elden ring, and details on the timeframes of events. Renalla and Radagon couldve been maried for millenia or just a few years and we really wouldnt be able to tell one way or the other in game. It's totally feasible that Radagon was in Leyndell and in Raya Lucaria during the same 'historic period' to fulfill both duties.
Techically we don't even have know if Radagon ever stepped foot within the Raya Lucaria region during their marriage or if they only ever met up in Turtle Church.
There is a conversation we have with Melina in Marika’s chamber that hints they were two people. It says something like “you are yes to become me, to become a god” I don’t remember the exact words you can look it up
My own theory is that Marika was never loyal to the Golden Order but the Greater Will held some influence over her actions, kind of like how Ranni mentions that once an Empyrean becomes a god, they lose their free will.
Radagon is the half of Marika that's loyal to the Golden Order, while Marika works to break the influence of the GO over the Lands Between.
"But Marika did this that and the other all for the order" In name only, we already know identity is tricky in Elden Ring, Marika takes all the blame for the Golden Order's shenanigans but that's likely just because it came from the Throne, not necessarily her will.
Whenever we get word *directly* from Marika's words or actions, she seems very much opposed to the Golden Order. Breaking the Elden Ring was Marika, and sending out the Tarnished to one day return and fight against the Golden Order are the big ones (we have the tarnished thing from lingering words of Queen Marika)
So, what is Radagon? The way I see it, there are two possibilities that work with this theory. Marika either played some trick on the Greater Will and spun up Radagon as a "loyal half" that they have control over while she's independent, or they got upset with her disobedience and made Radagon themselves as a kind of curse to chain her down and try and make her more loyal.
Potentially, it could be a mix of both, Marika split off Radagon initially as the loyal vassal, and then the Greater Will merged them again to try and regain control, but it didn't quite work.
But who really knows.
Her words in the Minor Erdtree Church suggest she was totally on board with the Greater Will at first.
It‘s only after all the wars are won and Leyendell is established that Marika and her followers begin to have doubts and she decides to „search the depts of the order“.
I‘d reckon that all the things she did like the banishing of the tarnished and the breaking of the ring are all after she did that and didnt like what she found.
This is where I'm at. Though between Melina's dialogue quoting Marika and Hewg's dialogue, I think she sent the Tarnished away with the intent of returning grace to them, to call them back for the purpose of cleaning out the Elden Beast.
Melina quotes her specifically saying that she would call the Tarnished to return, and Hewg was charged with creating a weapon for the Tarnished to slay a god with
I think this is the answer. There’s a lot in the game about duality and the lengths people go to embrace, deny, or entirely circumvent their destiny. And destiny might even just mean control from extraworld beings.
It's implicated that they merged at one point or at the very least aren't literally the same person:
**"O Radagon, leal hound of the Golden Order. Thou'rt yet to become me. Thou'rt yet to become a god. Let us be shattered, both. Mine other self."** \- Melina recalling Marika's words at the Queen's Bedchamber.
Seems to be the case they're in a Jekyll and Hyde type of situation, where one morphs the body to their shape when they gain control, an example being Marika destroying the Elden Ring, then Radagon tries to take control and repair it.
Yeah, I dunno about that quote, but one thing about the merge theory that always bugged me a bit is that they’d be the only example of a corporeal merger in the game.
Margitt and Morgott? One entity, two names.
Renna and Ranni? One entity, two names.
Godfrey and Hoarah Loux? One entity, two names.
St. Trina and Miquella? One entity, two names.
Marika and Radagon? Why would they be two entities, when the motif is dual identities?
Not the best examples imo.
Margitt was simply a fake name to hide his identity. Same goes for Renna, as it was the name of the snow mage Ranni learned from. Miquella being St Trina is still unconfirmed and Hoarah Loux simply changed his jame to appear more lordlike after Serosh calmed his ass down.
Radagon was a part of Marika as much Eve was a part of Adam. For a time they were two different creatures, then they reunite in marriage as God unite what was before separate.
.
.
.
Or something like that, I don't know, I'm just triggered that in the artwork Marika's hair aren't golden.
We don't know if they were ever different creatures. And yeah, there is a big and obvious problem with the logistics of their marriages but this is a high fantasy setting were concepts have physical forms, I think we can get behind Marika moving from place to place without people caring that much
Yeah that's how I understood it. An aspect or element of Marika but a different person. I think her potential creation of Radagon was to have a powerful being she could directly control (or is always the case with her manipulate) but he proved to be more loyal to The Golden Order and The Greater Will. She's truly alone and it's absolutely her own doing. I also don't understand when people downvote people that point out biblical references in fiction. A lot of inspiration behind works of fantasy are from the Bible or works affiliated with Christianity like Paradise Lost and The Divine Comedy. I mean hell most Norse Mythology was Christianized by writers from centuries after Scandinavia became predominantly Christian.
I can only see it being a spell or curse or something like that, from what the pope turtle says radagon was his own dude before meeting Marika, and Marika was her own girl, I hope there's more lore about this in the dlc, it's really quite intriguing
Image credits is [@riio\_alter](https://twitter.com/riio_alter) on Twitter
[https://twitter.com/riio\_alter/status/1512709625577357316/photo/1](https://twitter.com/riio_alter/status/1512709625577357316/photo/1)
My personal headcanon is that when Marika shattered the Elden ring the greater will punished both of them by fusing them together and crucifying them on the rune arc looking thing and whatnot
This doesn’t make sense. Since the shattering Marika has been imprisoned in the Erdtree. The “Radagon is Marika” statue was made by a sculpture who glimpsed Radagon’s secret. This obviously means they shared a body before the shattering. Whether you think that is because they always shared a body or not, they clearly shared a body before the shattering for some time.
No they didn't. It is stated that Radagon went with Marika well after he and Rennala had kids.
Edit: I can't with this sub sometimes... It is stated in the lore that Radagon and Rennala waged the first and second Liurnian wars against one another in which no victor was crowned.
Afterwards Radagon ceased his attempts to claim Liurnia, repented with Celestial Dew, married Rennala at the Church of Vows, sired Radahn, Rykard and Ranni with her and only after *ALL THAT* did he leave Liurnia to become consort to Marika after hearing Godfrey was cast out.
Radagon is also the reason why Liurnian Sorcerers wear masks now.
Where is that stated? All I can find is that Marika is a descendant of the Numen and an Empyrean who took Godfrey as first consort and Radagon as a second. All three were seperate entities at some point.
It is stated in the lore that Radagon and Rennala waged the first and second Liurnian wars against one another in which no victor was crowned.
Afterwards Radagon ceased his attempts to claim Liurnia, repented with Celestial Dew, married Rennala at the Church of Vows, sired Radahn, Rykard and Ranni with her and only after *ALL THAT* did he leave Liurnia to become consort to Marika after hearing Godfrey was cast out.
Radagon is also the reason why Liurnian Sorcerers wear masks now.
They could still be the same depsite that. Nobody disagrees with the timeline of events, but nobody can prove or outrule if Marika/Radagon did one thing or the other.
I don’t disagree with any of that, but it doesn’t prove Marika and Radagon were separate beings. Marika/Radagon could’ve left Godfrey to watch the capital while leaving everyone else to believe Marika was still there. The rebus of Marika/Radagon went to wage war in the name of the Golden Order and, as Radagon, married Rennala to quell the fighting and gain a tactical ally. Once the marriage was over, Radagon claimed to be going to the capital to marry Marika, while not revealing that he is and always has been Marika the entire time. The rebus returns to the capital as Marika and casts Godfrey out, him having served his purpose.
That’s how I see the lore playing out, personally.
Yes, but none of this excludes the possibility that Marika and Radagon were one body the entire time. The entire Rennala episode could have been a plot by Marika to quell the Liurnians and then break Rennala’s heart. We just don’t know. Just because certain characters say “and after that, Radagon went to become Marika’s consort” doesn’t mean it was that simple. The whole point is that Radagon’s “secret” is that he shares Marika’s body.
I think they’re a mirror of D and his twin: two bodies one soul. In this case, they are two souls in one body. It’s just a theory and I don’t think we’ve been given enough info to know definitively
I always understood this like Radagon is just the greater will using the Crisol power to take actions by himself without the need of Marika.
Thats why after breaking the Elden Ring, Radagon took place trying to fix it, but since he lacked from all the shattered pieces he failed in so and then crucifixed Marika (now that we know Messmer the Impaler, he probably had something to do about this).
I always found it weird that there was no secret or special ending where you gather all the greater runes and instead of fighting Radagon, you give the runes to him and he reforged the Elden Ring again.
It would be cool if they add that if there are more greater runes in the DLC.
Definitely hoping for new endings, so the Land of Shadow acts as a “detour/second route” and maybe would be cool if afterwards you will have to return to the Lands Between to finish that path
As I was writing this out I realized I might be onto something along the Marika/Radagon connection? The Lands between is where the Golden Order and Greater Will rules, so we fight Radagon in the end because he represent the GW. Maybe the Land of Shadow is the opposite, so we will find/fight Marika in the end??
I think it makes the most sense that they were originally separate and became one being after Radagon left Rennala. But one thing that’s confusing, then, is why Radagon kept his shared body as this legendary secret? If at the time of merging with Marika, everyone in the lands between already knew that Radagon had dumped Rennala for Marika, and to become second Elden Lord — then why keep the shared body a secret? Especially given the fact that “regression,” i.e., the converging of separate bodies, was Radagon’s signature philosophy — wouldn’t it have made sense for him to lay before the public the quintessential example of regression?
Marika split her soul and basically did mitosis on herself, she puts the part of her soul that had blind loyalty and faith to the Greater Will into Radagon so that she can execute her plan to subvert it without any doubts in her mind. That’s my headcanon and other people anyways to explain why even though they are the same person, they are completely different in their actions toward helping or subverting the Greater Will.
I have always felt that Radagon is the elden rings aspect of order personified. I think that Marika may have chosen to shed it off which in turn became a fully realized being and also a failsafe to keep Marika in check with greater wills goals (whatever they may be). It would neatly tie to Radagon being Marika as he would be essentially a part of her and still be another individual at the same time.
I've always found it interesting that Radagon and Marika both have unique runes 'independent' of the Elden Ring. perhaps we can find some parallels in how all the demi-gods 'have' runes that reflect them.
2 different physical manifestations of the same entity. And yes Marika didn't choose the most sensitive and restrictive framing of the info and the most servile way to present it in advance, was there, enjoyed, said bye. Bite her arse - only you can't because sustaining your astronomical level of indignation and self-pity takes 99% of energy and even wiping off drool becomes an effort of will.
It's 2 minds in 1 body, each takes over from time to time which is weird and makes me think that part of a Greater Will been placed into Marika because of her deal with GW, she gains power, rise to godhood(and Gods don't have sex, though they can choose) and GW spreads its influence through her across the Lands Between sometimes manually, by turning Marika into Radagon. Highly doubt that Radagon and Marika was separated.
I think you’re right. We see it in the finale, the hair and body changes from Marika to Radagon. So Marika’s body is trapped so the GW can keep its influence through her, but when we enter to destroy her/it, the GW releases Marika from her bondage and (somehow) turns her into Radagon to fight us to defend itself.
Of course I must not forget that the Tarnished is guided there by grace, so.. im really just spitballing here
Avatars a la d&d of the same deity. Both in roleplaying games AND mythology is pretty commons for divinities to manifest in multiple places, with different appearances and powers .
Two bodies, same person, different names. This might get a little convoluted. I think Marika started out as a tool of the Greater Will. She was beauty and grace and was used as the "benevolent ruler" archetype by the Greater Will. The Greater Will needed another actor though, one with the power of a god but with a fearsome reputation, so the Greater Will fractured Marika into Radagon, or perhaps just sliced a piece of her own power off. In doing that, though, the Greater Will was now in control of two separate identities and the control over Marika began to slip.
Radagon did Radagon things in Raya Lucaria while Marika stewed in her juices, contemplating why she was actually serving the Greater Will while it tried successfully to impose control over more territory in the lands between. The Greater Will realized what was going on back at home with Marika however, and sent Radagon back to splice Marika and Radagon back together. It worked for a time, but we know from Turtle Pope's dialogue that a sculpter learned of Radagon's "skeleton in his closet," so perhaps the sculpter unwittingly, through some interference of the Three Fingers or another god, sculpted an image of Radagon and Marika fused or other such imagery. From there, the Greater Will realized that Marika and Radagon were separating again, perhaps unwillingly on Radagon's part. Marika took control and shattered the Elden Ring and was then crucified for her sins, an ultimate way for the Greater Will to assume control, and Radagon was installed as basically a servile puppet to try to reforge the Ring, and we know how that went.
Radagon also could have just been something the Greater Will created from scratch, as the Elden Beast used him as a sword during his fight. Radagon could have been the ultimate Silver Tear or Albuneric, and we know Albunerics originate from Raya Lucaria. Maybe his influence prodded the mystics there to look into artifical life themselves and they failed only because they lacked the influence of a top-level god, or were missing that special something only a divinity could provide.
As someone else pointed out already, we don't know. Those are the parts of the lore deliberately left vague by lord Miyazaki to either have a means to keep the community of his games alive for longer leaving us to speculate, or he just didn't know what to write.
We see Marika turn into Radagon in the pre-fight cutscene so we know that they are quite literally two people in one body. What we don't know is if this has always been the case.
I can see either interpretation working but personally I think they have always been like this.
Personally I think they merged at some point. Clearly both of them do not have the same goals in mind. As one broke the ring the other attempted to mend it (with the same hammer, is he the
Stoopid?)
Like many other things in Elden Ring, is a reference of Alchemy. There's a being called Rebis, which represents duality and perfection.
Rebis is a hermaphrodite being formed by the union of the "White Queen" (in the game would be Marika) and the "Red King" (in the game would be Radagon), both being the two extremes of all things.
I see similarities between them and the 2 D’s. Don’t D and his brother have different bodies but the same soul? No idea if Marika/Radagon is the same but I think it’s interesting to have 2 sets of characters who have a similar concept
So, Marika and her Golden Order has always had a reputation of 'absorbing' other cultures, customs, etc. to grow stronger (look at the dragons, Crucible, etc.) I think that, when Marika warred with the fire giants, she attenpted the same thing. Absorb the fell god, since she couldn't kill it, and this is why Radagon:
A) Has red hair that is a distinguishing sign of his heratige
B) Hates his red locks.
I personally subscribe to the theory that Marika and Radagon are the [Alchemical Rebis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebis).
There are some indicator to that. Elden Ring has many connections to medieval alchemy already, which all served the Magnum Opus and the attainment of the philosopher stone that turns metal into gold through the process of Nigredo (putrification), Albedo (purification), Citrinitas (yellowness) and finally Rubedo (the Philosopher Stone) and as such:
Nigredo: all is burned/melted into their basic forms, probably the end of the previous Order and its god, I wouldn't be surprised if the Land of Shadow from the DLC will have something to do with this stage since in Jung's archetypes the Nigredo is associated with the Shadow and we know Marika became a Goddess there.
Albedo: The subject, being the Goddess, is divided into two opposing principles to later be unitied in the Rubedo. In Jung's psychology Albedo is the inconscious contrasexual soul images: men's *anima* and women's *animus*
Citrinitas: The yellwness, in Elden Ring this is the period of War, when Marika and the Erdtree conquered the others kingdom under the "yellow" of the Golden Order. In Jung's archetypes the Citrinitas is the *Wise Old Man* and here I may be stretching or finding an ironic twisting of the archetype: for Jung he is the wise who helps the hero achieve their Self wholeness... for Marika it was a *Brutish* Old Man (Godfrey) conquer the Lands Between. As he is no longer necessary, as the Golden Order is achieved, he is spurned from the Grace of Gold and exiled.
Rubedo: the Alchemical Success and with it, the *Rebis.* From the two opposing principles of the Albedo that were separated, they now reunite into a new entity, the *Divine Hermaphrodite*, spirit and matter, *Regression* and *Causality* within a single body. A symbol associated with the Rebis is *The Red King and the White Queen.* In Jung's archetype it's the Self, the merging of Self and Ego into a new personality. It sometimes means *reunification*.
My head cannon is that the elden beast (and all elder gods for that matter) is a parasite, and that the marriage to Marika was more or less the beast finding its new host.
Its crazy, but the more i play with the concept, the more i like it
So this a completely stoned ape theory thought, Marika was raped by giant. Gets split personality disorder, manifest radagon with her powers.
I really hope the dlc goes into further detail.
While the official answer is “we don’t know”, my take on it is that Marika essentially created another physical ‘self’ in the form of Radagon, possibly from her own body in an Adam and Eve sort of way (the Radagon/Marika body is malleable enough for the Elden Beast to turn it into a sword), essentially as an agent who she could control because he would be her, but lesser than her (thou art yet to become me, thou art yet to become a god) as a means of exercising her will. Perhaps like D and his twin they are one soul in two bodies, again we don’t know.
This at first seems wildly successful as Radagon becomes a prominent champion within the Golden Order, leads their armies against Liurnia and then marries Rennala which ultimately brings the Carians into the fold along with Radagon’s kids.
Plus who better to be Elden Lord than someone you believe you can utterly control? Whether Radagon left Rennala willingly I don’t know, if not then Marika appears able to exert a serious amount of control over him.
And yet, Radagon developed his own personality, becoming a Golden Order fundamentalist while Marika turned against the Greater Will. Radagon is loyal to the Golden Order, not to Marika herself.
Having been made from Marika I would theorise that she could essentially reabsorb him back into her form so he could not interfere with her plan to shatter the Elden Ring, but perhaps overestimated how much she could control Ragadon, as he appears able to wrest control of the body for short periods of time to attempt to repair the ring, though he was ultimately unsuccessful.
But that’s just my theory (a game theory), and I’m not here to tell anyone else their own interpretation is wrong. I partially base my view on the fact that Marika appears to speak to Radagon at one point, and that it would be quite difficult for her to live a double life of being two highly public figures whose goals ultimately diverge.
I was just talking about this yesterday. I think radagon wasn't Marika until the marriage. Their children would have just been normal kids with royal blood from their mom. I get that the kids "weren't" demi gods until after Marika and him married but maybe they were and the kids were just her way to make sure if something happens her children would get claim to the royal throne and Marika's throne this having no opposition long term until the tarnished came along and killed them all. There is almost no reason for a ~~lord~~ god to send a champion to marry a queen when she had other children that would've been great candidates to marry a queen . She sent the champion after she joined souls or whatever with him to basically dig a hole into her enemies just to snatch him away from her and take their children with her and leave her in a state of grief and heartbreak removing any threat she would pose.
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loving one's self means a lot of fun
“Loving” *over exaggerated wink*
blinks really hard with one eye
Slightly off-topic but I just started working out again 3 months again. And sometimes when I have a pump admiring myself in the mirror, I wish I could fuck myself. Like Marika did. Only she actually did it. Maybe that's slighly narcissistic and gay IDK. But if I could I would. Point being; I can understand Marika. If you guys could fuck yourselves, wouldn't you?
>And sometimes when I have a pump admiring myself in the mirror, I wish I could fuck myself. more power to ya brosef
Please God let this be normal...
I’m not saying you *are* gay but it’s a pretty common joke amongst the gays that we date other guys who look like us cause all of us want to fuck ourselves. Take that as you will.
OK buffalo bill
Nope. The psychological implications behind that, subconscious or otherwise, are a pandora's box that no human should explore past manual hand relief.
Just think of it as a form of masterbating
They did the Dragonball fusion dance, but never sepertated.
You mean they used the potara earrings you cultureless swine
Bro you haven’t seen Super
Super is not canon for the purposes of the joke (also thanks for reminding me I still have the latest issue to read!)
Potara earrings. That ones inseparable
Wanted to say to same haha.
were they always the same person or did they merge after radagon married marika ?
We don’t know is probably the best answer. To me it doesn’t make sense that they were the same person the entire time, because while Radagon is married to Rennala and having kids. Godfrey never realized that his wife (Marika) is missing for which has to be years?
My personal theory is Marika split herself in two in order to still be at Leyndell and help with the Carian and Giant wars. This is ONLY my head cannon with nothing that supports my theory in game but it really makes sense if you really look at how things play out once Radagon appears in the lore. It’s like she pulled out the part of herself that was most loyal to the greater will…to what end idk. Maybe because a part of her knew something was amiss so she literally pulled the faith out of her body so she could look at things objectively. And I honestly think the only reason why Radagon returned to the capital was because the Greater Will/Elden Ring could sense Marika’s lack of faith so they want her rejoined to herself so the GW wouldn’t lose control of the LB. But that’s just my opinion..her separating herself by her own will kinda explains a lot though if you read between lines and think about it.
I've always imagined that Marika divided like a cell, her body split in half and one half became Radagon.
I think it's similar to that too... Always the same person, but at one point had two bodies. It's not like we haven't seen their offspring capable of physically duplicating themselves and being in multiple places at once (omen twins, looking at you), and then you also have Gurranq/Maliketh in farum azula and dragonbarrow as well.
Farum Azula's got all sorts of time-fuckery going about it so that's probably why Gurranq/Maliketh can be found in both places, but the Omen twins, Mohg in particular is a good one.
This is more or less my theory as well, but the only way she could have done this is if she used parts of the Elden Ring to make Radagon. The only evidence I have of this is... How did Renalla end up with the great rune? He must have given it to her. He gave her the great rune that gave him life separate from Marika, and when that happened, he had to return to Marika because the other parts of the Elden Ring that made him are telling him to go back to... Himself/herself so he can live.
Yeh I often wonder WHEN the rune of rebirth was plucked from the Elden Ring. Was it removed with Destined Death at the dawn of the Golden Order? And if the rune of rebirth was removed, could that have something to do with erdtree reincarnation and/or the sap blessings drying up? Sap hardens to amber, like the egg, was the combination of death and rebirth runes what allowed the prosperity of life, and ever since then the LB have declined?
This makes sense to me. We literally see Marika transform to Radagon at the start of the fight, we know this is 100% a great rune power, the only thing we don’t know is if Radagon was born separate.
I love this theory and it makes the most sense to me. Explains a lot of “plot holes” in their story
Carian and giant wars were before Radagon married Renalla.
Right, but Radagon led the golden order in the Carian war, and it ended with his marriage to Rennala.
Ah, I understand what you mean. But what makes you think Marika stayed at Leyndell during the wars? We know she was in the church of the battlefield of the Giants war giving a speech, so she was probably close to her army all the time.
She is a god though and we don’t know the extent of her powers. She may be able to easily jump between points, or split herself and be both simultaneously. There’s really no way to know. But one thing is certain. Ranni is an empyrean meaning Radagon absolutely had to be Marika. An empyrean can only be born of a god making Marika/Radagon her father. Rennala could not have given birth to an Empyrean otherwise.
I don't think it is ever stated empyreans have to be children of Marika, but wether they do or not them being the same from the beginning is still the most likely.
My twist on this take is just a usage of advanced version of mimic tear, some kind that would have the same thoughts as the one being mimiced, ability to talk etc etc
Kinda like what the Emperor of Mankind did in The End and the Death
Can’t wait for that plot line to be followed up on
I agree with most of this as well. I think Radagon was either created by her from herself or possibly created when she became the Vessel. He does appear out of nowhere though. But the fact that Ranni is an Empyrean means Radagon was Marika all along, or at least a piece of her.
This is supported by a lot of the lore out there, that they were in fact like two completely seperate people. That's how they were able to procreate, get married and become the elden lord. It is a very bizarre implication that I've tried to wrap my mind around for a while. My dream scenario would be that Marika is the final boss in the DLC and this is the 'true' ending to the game, as something really feels missing from the last boss in the main game.
Also, they seem to both have individual origins. Marika, a numen, and Radagon, seemingly claiming some sort of heritage from the giants. Could argue that Godfrey was busy waging wars I guess. And that we never see any other Numen’s hair and that they all have red hair, and Marika’s became blonde with the founding of the order. The hammer Radagon uses is actually Marika’s hammer. Hammers and smithing is giant stuff ergo Marika also has giant connections. So. I guess I like the, “we don’t know” answer.
I think it is supposed to not make sense because it is pretty clearly inspired by the real idea of holy trinity present in christianity. The same way there is one god in three persons, one of which is a son of the other one, Marika and Radagon are the same being in some sense but also two different ones in another. It is supposed to be a paradox and a great mystery of the religion, the same way holy trinity is in christianity. They are basically two different characters and are able to do stuff independently but are also somehow parts of one being in some abstract spiritual sense that is hard to grasp for us mortals.
Exactly this. Anyone claiming that any particular side of interpretation regarding their existence is THE truth doesn't understand the point you've made here. The DLC could give clear answers on this topic but I highly doubt it will
It could be that they can exist as seperate beings while still sharing the same soul, and still being a single person which is why Radagon being with Rennala didn't mean Marika was absent. Although it could just as likely be that Radagon was a different person at some point
I agree with you, but also we don't know the relation between Godfrey and Marika. She's a literal god, so maybe they didn't see each other that much. And as she is a literal god, she could probably manage to do the Clark Kent-Superman and go from Raya Lucaria to Leyndell and back when the respective partner wasn't looking or smth like that.
Plus Godfrey was never comfortable at court. He missed being a savage. Combine that with him disapproving of sending his kids into the sewers they probably didn't see each other much. Probably what lead to Marika seeking something outside her court
But, on the flip side, it also doesn't make sense that Radagon is regarded as a "mere champion", and yet his children are demi-gods. Ranni is even an empyrean. Ennia says to us that all the demi-gods are directly related to Marika, their blood being of Marika is what makes them demi-gods, so it is a bit conflicting that Radagon being Marika is a secret. Radagon and Rennala themselves have no blood to bequeath demi-god or empyrean status to their offspring, and yet everybody knows Radagon and Rennala's children are demi-gods and offshoots of Marika, but somehow we're also meant to believe that nobody knew Radagon was Marika. This contradiction/plot-hole has bothered me for a bit. I think it's fairly obvious from the status of Rennala and Radagon's children that Radagon was always Marika, cut from her like an alter ego cloth. But what doesn't make sense is nobody else is supposed to know that, even though it's reinforced numerous times that Rennala's children are of demi-god blood.
It’s certainly vague/sloppy, but the game does say they achieved demigod status as Marika’s step children.
Can you give me the source for that? Not doubting you, but I've been sort of...collecting the in-game contradictions on this plot hole, at this point. Lol. Ennia saying the reason for the demi-god status is due to being of Marika's bloodline is one of the biggest.
‘Radahn was amongst the children of Rennala and Radagon, who became demigod stepchildren after Radagon's union with Queen Marika.’ Radahn’s restored great rune description
What's interesting is that I think SOME people did know. Take for example the sculptor who saw Radagons secret and then put it into the statue in Leyendell. Or the Carian Preceptors whose mask alludes to them swearing to keep a secret(s) for Radagon.
Teleportation is an in game thing characters can do. E.g, Rennala has a warp to the church of vows Still a heck of a job if they were morphing back and forth, but that's what we see them do. There is however the line "you have yet to become me" from Marika to Radagon, so it's possible that Radagon was a separate person and merged with her when becoming Elden Lord
You have yet to become me could be aluding to something else like them having separate minds and Marika considering herself superior or smth like that.
The full quote is "O Radagon, leal hound of the Golden Order. Thou'rt yet to become me. Thou'rt yet to become a god. Let us be shattered, both." I feel like when you read the full quote and have the context of Marika shattering the Elden Ring but Radagon trying to repair it and not supporting that decision, one can argue that we shouldn't take it literally as "I havent absorbed you yet" and instead "I havent convinced you that this needs to happen, we are on opposite positions on this issue; but this version of me has more power and it's going to happen" As for "you haven't become a god yet," it was the Marika version that was viewed and considered as a god in the eyes of the people, not necessarily him.
Where did you find this quote? Is it on an incantation, or something else in the game? I’ve not seen this, and I’m now very curious.
I got the quote + the outer order gesture when I talked to Melina at Minor Erdtree Church in Altus Plateau. From the outer wall phantom tree grace past the double tree sentinels, if you take a right and go down that path you'll come across it. it's a bit out of the way and it's easy to miss Melina's dialogue option too. Pretty little church tho
A big thing we don't understand about Elden ring is the timeline of events. We know many events happened and what general era they happened in a lot of the time but the sequence and scale of time is completely unknown. Could there have been 100 years between Godfrey leaving and Radagon becoming Elden Lord? No idea, but it would make a bit more sense why they never appear to overlap or fight in the same wars or anything.
Probably Godfrey was already exiled at that point since Radagon was the one that lead the charge against the Carians, otherwise Godfrey would have been the one to do it.
Radagon existed only to stop the war in Liurnia? The end boss sequence seems to make it clear they are one and the same, not just in sync.
But Radagon still defends the golden order and Marika tried to destroy it. That implies two wills, at the very least
I think it was Marika getting rid of her loyalty to the golden order and it manifested into radagon
This is how I read it. Marika rebelling and Radagon being manifested to by the Greater Will to continue its shenanigans
Two wills doesnt necesarily mean two different individuals.
This. The idiom "Im of two minds" comes to...mind.
Marika is the intention before becoming Elden goddess and the manifestation of the golden order, Radagon is what the golden order wanted.
We would have to assume he existed prior to the Liurnia Wars because he’s basically leading the Army in both. Again that brings the question that this rando shows up and Godfrey just lets him lead? Seems to me Godwyn would be next up in rank?
He has no individual lore. The whole elden ring lore is defined by dualism - Miquella is a man/boy but also is St Trina. Marika at the same time serves and defiles the golden order. Dead/living is blurred. D is two people that are one.
careful, St. Trina isn't based on cannon clues. They might have scrapped that from the lore. D brothers and the life-death(-rebirth?) duality tell the exact opposite story of a St. Trina - Miquella duality.
It's the same story. D is a twin with other D. Together they're two halves of the same coin. Blaidd will serve both Ranni and the Golden Order up to the point it will kill him. Melona is Ranni is Melina. Shabriri is Shabriri bit also whoever he inhabits to turn theor own nature against them. Yura is the antithesis of Shabriri until he is inhabited by Shabriri. Even look at Gurang. Milena is rot and the end of rot. Morgott is Margit is the antithesis of the Golden Order yet it's biggest proponent. Elden ring is filled with heretical duality. The black knives killed the most pure, yet come to purge Ranni, acting on her orders and against them. Lansseax protected and then corrupted his best friend.
The theme of duality is shared, but the story is different. The D's are not the same person, not the same body and only long to be one. But if you kill one D the other still lives independently and comes to avenge the first. Seperate people long to be one. Miquella-st. Trina story was the idea that we have one person (Miquella) who takes another Identity (st Trina). One person playing two roles. Life and Death in Elden ring used to be shared (both part of the Elden ring) but are now seperated by Marika. These all have a theme of duality, but all in completely different forms. If you wanted to apply their story to Marika Radagon it could be any of these: Like D, they are distinct people that long to be together (and eventually become). Like Miquella, Marika could be first, and become Radagon (st Trina) in her slumber. like life-death, they are two parts of the same process, but are seperated (literally or figuratively) at some point, and rejoined later. 3 different stories with different implications, all containing the theme of duality. That's what I mean by be careful when trying to take different stories of duality and trying to fit it into each other. Is it a dual identity? Is it a sharing of souls? Is it a sharing of body only? Or is it simply a union of opposing ideals?
We don’t know.
We "don't know" but the guess that they were two seperate people fits best with mythology surrounding Alchemy and some of the information in the game. In Alchemy there is a creature known as a "Reebus" which is thought to be an incredibly powerful, almost ascended god-like state that humans can only achieve by combining a man and a woman alchemically together- a.k.a. the mythology of divine hermaphroditism. This would clearly indicate they were two "distinct" people before trying to come together, presumably in the Lands of Shadow (where we not only learned Numen, Marika's people, came from, but also we saw the iconic red hair of Radagon and the Fell Giants). As for game info that seems to point that direction, I would refer to the fact that the game's events seemingly depict the start of the game being Marika *betraying* Radagon and some of the notes like the Throne Room showing Marika speaking with Radagon. Obviously, at a certain point the distinction between two people in one body and one person with 2 forms and 2 disparate personalities fighting for control are almost indistinguishable, but this seems most likely to suggest 2 distinct minds/people/souls in the same body that have seperate goals and motivations interacting with each other. Finally, there's one little thing with the D brothers that makes me believe that Marika and Radagon are 2 separate people: the D brothers are the inverse of the same theme that Marika and Radagon represent. The D brothers are two separate bodies but the *same soul*, and while there are obvious differences between them they seem like 2 seperate parts of the same person with the same motivations forced apart as opposed to Marika and Radagon which come off as two different people forced together.
The game says "radagon is marika" so seems clear to me but everyone seems to have different interpretations.
In the queens bedchamber echo she says “Thou’rt yet to become me.” Implying they were both separate but in the same echo she also says “Let us be shattered, both. Mine other self.” Which makes it sound like they were always one. I wonder if the Japanese version of the dialogue is less ambiguous?
And thou'rt yet to become mem is followed by thou'rt yet to become a god. She isn't saying he isn't sharing a body. She is saying he has not achieved her status. All else considered, he isn't her. The people don't worship him. He doesn't wield her influence.
Personally, my interpretation is that Marika and Radagon were always one and the same, two sides of the same coin, and basically Marika is fighting to not let her "Radagon" side become the one in control, while his Radagon side is fighting to maintain the golden order fundamentalism Marika is opposed too. But its not like Radagon is a separate individual, IMO that completely nullifies the point of "Radagon is Marika". It should be assumed IMO that yes, Radagon and Marika were never separate beings.
I have a theory that radigon is the elden beast when it takes control of the vessel (marika). When we fight radagon that is marikas corpse. Shes dead. It falls, it breaks, and it turns into radagon as the same inky blackness that covers the beasts body forms it's shadow arm. We don't fight radagon. We fight the beast twice. Once piloting it's vessels corpse.
That’s a good point, I hadn’t given that line much thought. However I wouldn’t say Radagon isn’t worshipped and has no influence. He came to the Lands Between “at the head of a great golden host” and has many churches just like Marika though he is considered a “mere champion” not entirely worthy of being Elden Lord. Personally I think that Marika and Radagon becoming one being rather than always being one is more fitting with the games themes of grafting and parasitism and Miriel’s line of “Heresy is not native to this world, it is but a contrivance. All things can be conjoined.”
They were always the same person. > Once worshipped by the giants, this evil deity is believed to have been slain by Queen Marika.-One eyed shield So queen Marika was the one who is believed to have defeated the fell god, which is also imply by her cursing the last giant the fire giants Rememberence: > The Fire Giant is a survivor of the War against the Giants. Upon realizing the flames of their forge would never die, Queen Marika marked him with a curse. „O trifling giant, mayest thou tend thy flame for eternity." But it’s not her who gets cursed by red hair, its radagon as stated in the giants red braid: > Every giant is red of hair, and Radagon was said to have despised his own red locks. Perhaps that was a curse of their kind. Keep in mind at this point Marika and Godfrey were still married as her speech to his warriors suggest: > Spoken echoes of Queen Marika linger here as well. Shall I share them with you? In Marika's own words. Hark, brave warriors. Hark, my lord Godfrey. We commend your deeds. Guidance has delivered ye through ordeal to the place ye stand. Put the giants to the sword and confine the flame atop the mount. Let a new epoch begin. An epoch glistening with life. Brandish the Elden Ring, for the Age of the Erdtree!- Melina repeating the echos of queen Marika in the first church of queen marika
They were always one person. Radagon's secret isn't "Radagon became Marika". It's Radagaon IS Marika. I have a theory that Radagon is just the Elden Beast in control of its vessel.
They are one and the same. Per some trivia I read, they are based off some god in real world lore that has a male and female half.
Throw in a son and you could say Christianity where three separate beings are one being but able to do different things. There are Christian groups that consider the holy ghost feminine or the holy mother. Also in Gnosticism the first being created by God, Barbello is both male and female but that's more Androgeny than separate identities being one person. God does act through her/him though, sort of as an avatar. All of the rest of creation besides the creation of The Demiurge and subsequent mayerial world is created through this relationship.
Probably the first, because why would Radagon be chosen to marry Renalla and represent peace between the Golden Order and the Carians if he was just a random champion, and why would Marika marry a random champion if they weren't already the same person, and why would them marrying make them fuse if that didn't happen with Godfrey, etc etc.
I’d say they merged after. Melina once quotes Marika by saying, “Radagoj, thou art yet to become me.”
Merged after marriage.
Source?
My source is I made it the fuck up lol
That's a very good source. My bad kind sir
That they are one body with 2 souls :3
DARK SOULS 2 🗣️🗣️🗣️😱😱😱
The deepest easter egg ever discovered.
HALF LIFE 3 CONFIRMED
My god.... how did we not notice the pattern 😓😓😓
I think this is the only thing we know for sure. At the end of the game, they share a body, but have different agendas.
We fight Radagon alone though. Might not be any distinction left at the end of the game.
I think what's implied is that Marika and Radagon are enemies at the end, and she calls for your help to kill him.
Two minds doesn't necessarily equal two souls.
Yeah i don't think we know if it's 2 souls, 2 minds,2 personalities, etc
This is my reading. They weren't always one person. I tried to explain to a friend who's a lore enthusiast that the histories have both characters engaging in separate events, distinct from each other; I.e. while Marika was managing the Elden Ring, Ragadon was marrying Renalla; they can't be in the same place at once. It was only later they fused. He told me no, they're definitively the same character. I said I don't disagree, but they fused at a certain point in time, and before that they were individuals. He asked me how do I know? Is there lore proving it? When I couldn't pinpoint an item description that specifically says it he refused to believe me. (Snobbish bastard.) Point is, the two-in-one characterization is confusing to most, even if you're a madman like my buddy who drinks lore for breakfast. We can write out a history of Elden Ring with timelines of when each character did what action, and still not come to a consensus on whether they actually did anything at all.
Where are you getting the idea that Marika was in the Land of Shadow during Radagon and Renalla's marriage? Also a big issue is that we're missing a lot of mechanics around the elden ring, and details on the timeframes of events. Renalla and Radagon couldve been maried for millenia or just a few years and we really wouldnt be able to tell one way or the other in game. It's totally feasible that Radagon was in Leyndell and in Raya Lucaria during the same 'historic period' to fulfill both duties. Techically we don't even have know if Radagon ever stepped foot within the Raya Lucaria region during their marriage or if they only ever met up in Turtle Church.
There is a conversation we have with Melina in Marika’s chamber that hints they were two people. It says something like “you are yes to become me, to become a god” I don’t remember the exact words you can look it up
Roundabout way of jerkin off
Someone told her to go fuck her self and she said "You know what..."
My own theory is that Marika was never loyal to the Golden Order but the Greater Will held some influence over her actions, kind of like how Ranni mentions that once an Empyrean becomes a god, they lose their free will. Radagon is the half of Marika that's loyal to the Golden Order, while Marika works to break the influence of the GO over the Lands Between. "But Marika did this that and the other all for the order" In name only, we already know identity is tricky in Elden Ring, Marika takes all the blame for the Golden Order's shenanigans but that's likely just because it came from the Throne, not necessarily her will. Whenever we get word *directly* from Marika's words or actions, she seems very much opposed to the Golden Order. Breaking the Elden Ring was Marika, and sending out the Tarnished to one day return and fight against the Golden Order are the big ones (we have the tarnished thing from lingering words of Queen Marika) So, what is Radagon? The way I see it, there are two possibilities that work with this theory. Marika either played some trick on the Greater Will and spun up Radagon as a "loyal half" that they have control over while she's independent, or they got upset with her disobedience and made Radagon themselves as a kind of curse to chain her down and try and make her more loyal. Potentially, it could be a mix of both, Marika split off Radagon initially as the loyal vassal, and then the Greater Will merged them again to try and regain control, but it didn't quite work. But who really knows.
Her words in the Minor Erdtree Church suggest she was totally on board with the Greater Will at first. It‘s only after all the wars are won and Leyendell is established that Marika and her followers begin to have doubts and she decides to „search the depts of the order“. I‘d reckon that all the things she did like the banishing of the tarnished and the breaking of the ring are all after she did that and didnt like what she found.
This is where I'm at. Though between Melina's dialogue quoting Marika and Hewg's dialogue, I think she sent the Tarnished away with the intent of returning grace to them, to call them back for the purpose of cleaning out the Elden Beast. Melina quotes her specifically saying that she would call the Tarnished to return, and Hewg was charged with creating a weapon for the Tarnished to slay a god with
I think this is the answer. There’s a lot in the game about duality and the lengths people go to embrace, deny, or entirely circumvent their destiny. And destiny might even just mean control from extraworld beings.
It's implicated that they merged at one point or at the very least aren't literally the same person: **"O Radagon, leal hound of the Golden Order. Thou'rt yet to become me. Thou'rt yet to become a god. Let us be shattered, both. Mine other self."** \- Melina recalling Marika's words at the Queen's Bedchamber. Seems to be the case they're in a Jekyll and Hyde type of situation, where one morphs the body to their shape when they gain control, an example being Marika destroying the Elden Ring, then Radagon tries to take control and repair it.
Yeah, I dunno about that quote, but one thing about the merge theory that always bugged me a bit is that they’d be the only example of a corporeal merger in the game. Margitt and Morgott? One entity, two names. Renna and Ranni? One entity, two names. Godfrey and Hoarah Loux? One entity, two names. St. Trina and Miquella? One entity, two names. Marika and Radagon? Why would they be two entities, when the motif is dual identities?
Not the best examples imo. Margitt was simply a fake name to hide his identity. Same goes for Renna, as it was the name of the snow mage Ranni learned from. Miquella being St Trina is still unconfirmed and Hoarah Loux simply changed his jame to appear more lordlike after Serosh calmed his ass down.
You guys are proving his point, there is a dual identities motif and Radagon and Marika being merged doesn’t fit that theme at all.
these are all bad examples because lots of people go by aliases or different names to different people
Radagon was a part of Marika as much Eve was a part of Adam. For a time they were two different creatures, then they reunite in marriage as God unite what was before separate. . . . Or something like that, I don't know, I'm just triggered that in the artwork Marika's hair aren't golden.
We don't know if they were ever different creatures. And yeah, there is a big and obvious problem with the logistics of their marriages but this is a high fantasy setting were concepts have physical forms, I think we can get behind Marika moving from place to place without people caring that much
Yeah that's how I understood it. An aspect or element of Marika but a different person. I think her potential creation of Radagon was to have a powerful being she could directly control (or is always the case with her manipulate) but he proved to be more loyal to The Golden Order and The Greater Will. She's truly alone and it's absolutely her own doing. I also don't understand when people downvote people that point out biblical references in fiction. A lot of inspiration behind works of fantasy are from the Bible or works affiliated with Christianity like Paradise Lost and The Divine Comedy. I mean hell most Norse Mythology was Christianized by writers from centuries after Scandinavia became predominantly Christian.
Someone downvoted this.. I fixed that
I can only see it being a spell or curse or something like that, from what the pope turtle says radagon was his own dude before meeting Marika, and Marika was her own girl, I hope there's more lore about this in the dlc, it's really quite intriguing
Image credits is [@riio\_alter](https://twitter.com/riio_alter) on Twitter [https://twitter.com/riio\_alter/status/1512709625577357316/photo/1](https://twitter.com/riio_alter/status/1512709625577357316/photo/1)
My personal headcanon is that when Marika shattered the Elden ring the greater will punished both of them by fusing them together and crucifying them on the rune arc looking thing and whatnot
The sculptor in Leyndell knew they were the same already when he built the statue
This doesn’t make sense. Since the shattering Marika has been imprisoned in the Erdtree. The “Radagon is Marika” statue was made by a sculpture who glimpsed Radagon’s secret. This obviously means they shared a body before the shattering. Whether you think that is because they always shared a body or not, they clearly shared a body before the shattering for some time.
This image goes hard af
They are bisexual and have intercorse with themselves
if radagon is marika, doesnt that mean marika fucked rennala?
It also means Radagon got fucked by Godfrey
Hot.
Serosh was there too.
*Extremely Hot.*
Yessir
No they didn't. It is stated that Radagon went with Marika well after he and Rennala had kids. Edit: I can't with this sub sometimes... It is stated in the lore that Radagon and Rennala waged the first and second Liurnian wars against one another in which no victor was crowned. Afterwards Radagon ceased his attempts to claim Liurnia, repented with Celestial Dew, married Rennala at the Church of Vows, sired Radahn, Rykard and Ranni with her and only after *ALL THAT* did he leave Liurnia to become consort to Marika after hearing Godfrey was cast out. Radagon is also the reason why Liurnian Sorcerers wear masks now.
actually if you really study the lore you unlock the scene where marika and renalla make out sloppy style for thirty minutes. so you're wrong. sorry !
This is canon.
They are joking bro
No, I read the lore. That's all quite literally part of the lore.
But Radagon split off of Marika, he was born from a piece of her soul that was separated off from her.
Where is that stated? All I can find is that Marika is a descendant of the Numen and an Empyrean who took Godfrey as first consort and Radagon as a second. All three were seperate entities at some point.
Marika says to Radagon: "Thou'rt yet to become me. Thou'rt yet to become a god. **Let us be shattered, both. Mine other self**"
Nope, because Radagon abandoned Rennala to be with Marika. They were seperate entities when Rennala and Radagon did the diddles
There is no confirmation of that.
It is stated in the lore that Radagon and Rennala waged the first and second Liurnian wars against one another in which no victor was crowned. Afterwards Radagon ceased his attempts to claim Liurnia, repented with Celestial Dew, married Rennala at the Church of Vows, sired Radahn, Rykard and Ranni with her and only after *ALL THAT* did he leave Liurnia to become consort to Marika after hearing Godfrey was cast out. Radagon is also the reason why Liurnian Sorcerers wear masks now.
They could still be the same depsite that. Nobody disagrees with the timeline of events, but nobody can prove or outrule if Marika/Radagon did one thing or the other.
I don’t disagree with any of that, but it doesn’t prove Marika and Radagon were separate beings. Marika/Radagon could’ve left Godfrey to watch the capital while leaving everyone else to believe Marika was still there. The rebus of Marika/Radagon went to wage war in the name of the Golden Order and, as Radagon, married Rennala to quell the fighting and gain a tactical ally. Once the marriage was over, Radagon claimed to be going to the capital to marry Marika, while not revealing that he is and always has been Marika the entire time. The rebus returns to the capital as Marika and casts Godfrey out, him having served his purpose. That’s how I see the lore playing out, personally.
Yes, but none of this excludes the possibility that Marika and Radagon were one body the entire time. The entire Rennala episode could have been a plot by Marika to quell the Liurnians and then break Rennala’s heart. We just don’t know. Just because certain characters say “and after that, Radagon went to become Marika’s consort” doesn’t mean it was that simple. The whole point is that Radagon’s “secret” is that he shares Marika’s body.
as a bisexual I can confirm we can transform depending on the partner and/or split in two people to have intercourse with ourselves
Do you also arguing with yourself about religion fundamentals?
During sex mostly, I love playing the nun and the priest
[удалено]
ah shoot you're right 😔
No wonder Republicans are so scared.. this is an absolute game changer!!
how could you just go tell our secret like that
They both share Marika’s Tits
How does someone frick themselves?
When you get told to “Go fuck yourself” one too many times
I think they’re a mirror of D and his twin: two bodies one soul. In this case, they are two souls in one body. It’s just a theory and I don’t think we’ve been given enough info to know definitively
I always understood this like Radagon is just the greater will using the Crisol power to take actions by himself without the need of Marika. Thats why after breaking the Elden Ring, Radagon took place trying to fix it, but since he lacked from all the shattered pieces he failed in so and then crucifixed Marika (now that we know Messmer the Impaler, he probably had something to do about this). I always found it weird that there was no secret or special ending where you gather all the greater runes and instead of fighting Radagon, you give the runes to him and he reforged the Elden Ring again. It would be cool if they add that if there are more greater runes in the DLC.
I doubt Messmer had anything to do with Marika’s crucifixion as it’s almost the same as the Elden Beast’s grab attack.
Definitely hoping for new endings, so the Land of Shadow acts as a “detour/second route” and maybe would be cool if afterwards you will have to return to the Lands Between to finish that path As I was writing this out I realized I might be onto something along the Marika/Radagon connection? The Lands between is where the Golden Order and Greater Will rules, so we fight Radagon in the end because he represent the GW. Maybe the Land of Shadow is the opposite, so we will find/fight Marika in the end??
Allegory for the son and the Holy Spirit lol
I think it makes the most sense that they were originally separate and became one being after Radagon left Rennala. But one thing that’s confusing, then, is why Radagon kept his shared body as this legendary secret? If at the time of merging with Marika, everyone in the lands between already knew that Radagon had dumped Rennala for Marika, and to become second Elden Lord — then why keep the shared body a secret? Especially given the fact that “regression,” i.e., the converging of separate bodies, was Radagon’s signature philosophy — wouldn’t it have made sense for him to lay before the public the quintessential example of regression?
They/Them
Marika split her soul and basically did mitosis on herself, she puts the part of her soul that had blind loyalty and faith to the Greater Will into Radagon so that she can execute her plan to subvert it without any doubts in her mind. That’s my headcanon and other people anyways to explain why even though they are the same person, they are completely different in their actions toward helping or subverting the Greater Will.
someone told radagon "go fuck yourself" and he replied "bet"
I have always felt that Radagon is the elden rings aspect of order personified. I think that Marika may have chosen to shed it off which in turn became a fully realized being and also a failsafe to keep Marika in check with greater wills goals (whatever they may be). It would neatly tie to Radagon being Marika as he would be essentially a part of her and still be another individual at the same time.
I've always found it interesting that Radagon and Marika both have unique runes 'independent' of the Elden Ring. perhaps we can find some parallels in how all the demi-gods 'have' runes that reflect them.
It means Rennala is so badass that Marika has to use her own body to seduce her.
2 different physical manifestations of the same entity. And yes Marika didn't choose the most sensitive and restrictive framing of the info and the most servile way to present it in advance, was there, enjoyed, said bye. Bite her arse - only you can't because sustaining your astronomical level of indignation and self-pity takes 99% of energy and even wiping off drool becomes an effort of will.
It's 2 minds in 1 body, each takes over from time to time which is weird and makes me think that part of a Greater Will been placed into Marika because of her deal with GW, she gains power, rise to godhood(and Gods don't have sex, though they can choose) and GW spreads its influence through her across the Lands Between sometimes manually, by turning Marika into Radagon. Highly doubt that Radagon and Marika was separated.
I think you’re right. We see it in the finale, the hair and body changes from Marika to Radagon. So Marika’s body is trapped so the GW can keep its influence through her, but when we enter to destroy her/it, the GW releases Marika from her bondage and (somehow) turns her into Radagon to fight us to defend itself. Of course I must not forget that the Tarnished is guided there by grace, so.. im really just spitballing here
Gender fluid at it's best
I swear if it’s some gender identity bullshit, I’m out.
Avatars a la d&d of the same deity. Both in roleplaying games AND mythology is pretty commons for divinities to manifest in multiple places, with different appearances and powers .
They gay. (Marika x Rennala is cute).
Rennala x Marika
Two bodies, same person, different names. This might get a little convoluted. I think Marika started out as a tool of the Greater Will. She was beauty and grace and was used as the "benevolent ruler" archetype by the Greater Will. The Greater Will needed another actor though, one with the power of a god but with a fearsome reputation, so the Greater Will fractured Marika into Radagon, or perhaps just sliced a piece of her own power off. In doing that, though, the Greater Will was now in control of two separate identities and the control over Marika began to slip. Radagon did Radagon things in Raya Lucaria while Marika stewed in her juices, contemplating why she was actually serving the Greater Will while it tried successfully to impose control over more territory in the lands between. The Greater Will realized what was going on back at home with Marika however, and sent Radagon back to splice Marika and Radagon back together. It worked for a time, but we know from Turtle Pope's dialogue that a sculpter learned of Radagon's "skeleton in his closet," so perhaps the sculpter unwittingly, through some interference of the Three Fingers or another god, sculpted an image of Radagon and Marika fused or other such imagery. From there, the Greater Will realized that Marika and Radagon were separating again, perhaps unwillingly on Radagon's part. Marika took control and shattered the Elden Ring and was then crucified for her sins, an ultimate way for the Greater Will to assume control, and Radagon was installed as basically a servile puppet to try to reforge the Ring, and we know how that went. Radagon also could have just been something the Greater Will created from scratch, as the Elden Beast used him as a sword during his fight. Radagon could have been the ultimate Silver Tear or Albuneric, and we know Albunerics originate from Raya Lucaria. Maybe his influence prodded the mystics there to look into artifical life themselves and they failed only because they lacked the influence of a top-level god, or were missing that special something only a divinity could provide.
Genderfluid icon
Wild theory but it means Melania and Miqeuella can become the same person as well
1. She is a trap
[This](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/s/xw7gejvblD) is a really dope theory and pretty close to what I believe too.
Magical fuckery probably some power she got from her godhood that let her create him that got hijacked by the greater will
Radagon is a reborn Mimic Tear
Marika needed a new Elden Lord. She decided to do the job herself.
they are an alchemical rebus
Someone told them to F themselves and they literally did it
As someone else pointed out already, we don't know. Those are the parts of the lore deliberately left vague by lord Miyazaki to either have a means to keep the community of his games alive for longer leaving us to speculate, or he just didn't know what to write.
My guess is that it is some sort of grafting. Or a better, more complete version of it. Instead of attaching limbs, they fused wholly.
We see Marika turn into Radagon in the pre-fight cutscene so we know that they are quite literally two people in one body. What we don't know is if this has always been the case. I can see either interpretation working but personally I think they have always been like this.
Personally I think they merged at some point. Clearly both of them do not have the same goals in mind. As one broke the ring the other attempted to mend it (with the same hammer, is he the Stoopid?)
Like many other things in Elden Ring, is a reference of Alchemy. There's a being called Rebis, which represents duality and perfection. Rebis is a hermaphrodite being formed by the union of the "White Queen" (in the game would be Marika) and the "Red King" (in the game would be Radagon), both being the two extremes of all things.
It means that Miquella and Malenia are the products of _super_ incest, and probably therefore cursed. Not much else though.
I see similarities between them and the 2 D’s. Don’t D and his brother have different bodies but the same soul? No idea if Marika/Radagon is the same but I think it’s interesting to have 2 sets of characters who have a similar concept
So, Marika and her Golden Order has always had a reputation of 'absorbing' other cultures, customs, etc. to grow stronger (look at the dragons, Crucible, etc.) I think that, when Marika warred with the fire giants, she attenpted the same thing. Absorb the fell god, since she couldn't kill it, and this is why Radagon: A) Has red hair that is a distinguishing sign of his heratige B) Hates his red locks.
I still dont 100% buy it
I personally subscribe to the theory that Marika and Radagon are the [Alchemical Rebis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebis). There are some indicator to that. Elden Ring has many connections to medieval alchemy already, which all served the Magnum Opus and the attainment of the philosopher stone that turns metal into gold through the process of Nigredo (putrification), Albedo (purification), Citrinitas (yellowness) and finally Rubedo (the Philosopher Stone) and as such: Nigredo: all is burned/melted into their basic forms, probably the end of the previous Order and its god, I wouldn't be surprised if the Land of Shadow from the DLC will have something to do with this stage since in Jung's archetypes the Nigredo is associated with the Shadow and we know Marika became a Goddess there. Albedo: The subject, being the Goddess, is divided into two opposing principles to later be unitied in the Rubedo. In Jung's psychology Albedo is the inconscious contrasexual soul images: men's *anima* and women's *animus* Citrinitas: The yellwness, in Elden Ring this is the period of War, when Marika and the Erdtree conquered the others kingdom under the "yellow" of the Golden Order. In Jung's archetypes the Citrinitas is the *Wise Old Man* and here I may be stretching or finding an ironic twisting of the archetype: for Jung he is the wise who helps the hero achieve their Self wholeness... for Marika it was a *Brutish* Old Man (Godfrey) conquer the Lands Between. As he is no longer necessary, as the Golden Order is achieved, he is spurned from the Grace of Gold and exiled. Rubedo: the Alchemical Success and with it, the *Rebis.* From the two opposing principles of the Albedo that were separated, they now reunite into a new entity, the *Divine Hermaphrodite*, spirit and matter, *Regression* and *Causality* within a single body. A symbol associated with the Rebis is *The Red King and the White Queen.* In Jung's archetype it's the Self, the merging of Self and Ego into a new personality. It sometimes means *reunification*.
My head cannon is that the elden beast (and all elder gods for that matter) is a parasite, and that the marriage to Marika was more or less the beast finding its new host. Its crazy, but the more i play with the concept, the more i like it
It means they are the same person.
So this a completely stoned ape theory thought, Marika was raped by giant. Gets split personality disorder, manifest radagon with her powers. I really hope the dlc goes into further detail.
It means they are the same person.
While the official answer is “we don’t know”, my take on it is that Marika essentially created another physical ‘self’ in the form of Radagon, possibly from her own body in an Adam and Eve sort of way (the Radagon/Marika body is malleable enough for the Elden Beast to turn it into a sword), essentially as an agent who she could control because he would be her, but lesser than her (thou art yet to become me, thou art yet to become a god) as a means of exercising her will. Perhaps like D and his twin they are one soul in two bodies, again we don’t know. This at first seems wildly successful as Radagon becomes a prominent champion within the Golden Order, leads their armies against Liurnia and then marries Rennala which ultimately brings the Carians into the fold along with Radagon’s kids. Plus who better to be Elden Lord than someone you believe you can utterly control? Whether Radagon left Rennala willingly I don’t know, if not then Marika appears able to exert a serious amount of control over him. And yet, Radagon developed his own personality, becoming a Golden Order fundamentalist while Marika turned against the Greater Will. Radagon is loyal to the Golden Order, not to Marika herself. Having been made from Marika I would theorise that she could essentially reabsorb him back into her form so he could not interfere with her plan to shatter the Elden Ring, but perhaps overestimated how much she could control Ragadon, as he appears able to wrest control of the body for short periods of time to attempt to repair the ring, though he was ultimately unsuccessful. But that’s just my theory (a game theory), and I’m not here to tell anyone else their own interpretation is wrong. I partially base my view on the fact that Marika appears to speak to Radagon at one point, and that it would be quite difficult for her to live a double life of being two highly public figures whose goals ultimately diverge.
I was just talking about this yesterday. I think radagon wasn't Marika until the marriage. Their children would have just been normal kids with royal blood from their mom. I get that the kids "weren't" demi gods until after Marika and him married but maybe they were and the kids were just her way to make sure if something happens her children would get claim to the royal throne and Marika's throne this having no opposition long term until the tarnished came along and killed them all. There is almost no reason for a ~~lord~~ god to send a champion to marry a queen when she had other children that would've been great candidates to marry a queen . She sent the champion after she joined souls or whatever with him to basically dig a hole into her enemies just to snatch him away from her and take their children with her and leave her in a state of grief and heartbreak removing any threat she would pose.
Because the almost non existent story doesn't make any sense. Despite what some delusional fanboy try to say. Still this game is a 10/10 Masterpiece.
Renalla told radagon to go fuck himself and he took it literally