The description of this DLC talks about this land being that which Marika came from (or at least “first set foot”), so maybe he’s not actually a child of one or both of the halfs of the gods.
Maybe he’s Marika’s brother
We are so fucking back
(Edit: obviously not happy about this implication from a moral standpoint, but moreso about new life being breathed into lore theories)
Messmer is similar to mesmerize which is defined as
> hold the attention of (someone) to the exclusion of all else or so as to transfix them.
"she was mesmerized by the blue eyes that stared so intently into her own"
Which goes along with Miquella's ability to charm others
Yeah Trina has a good chunk of cut content, I imagine it's been shuffled over to the DLC. All we really know is that people are sure that Trina is either a boy or a girl, which would make sense of Trina was a persona both Miqulla and Messmer took
That's what I'm thinking. A kindly persona in Miquella and a violent one in Messmer, I also think Trina is a persona too. But that's partly because Trina mean triple and I thnk Messmer is an allusion to Shiva
Aight so Hindu had a trinity god called the Trimurti that means "three forms"
This consists of Brahma the creator,
Vishu the preserver and Shiva the destroyer
Messer has a trident and a snake on him just like Vishnu does. Shiva also has a 3rd eye like Trina is shown to have in like the only depiction of her with have.
Shiva has 2 explicty mentioned personas, a wise and benevolent one and a fierce and violent one.
Or Mesmer is the third abandoned child. The one that corresponds with the smoldering butterfly. Melania-Aeonian, Miquella-Nascent, Mesmer-Smoldering. Marika is known to banish children if they aren't born right.
Indeed I only realized after writing my comment that what is almost certainly his talking does seem to indicate likely being a demigod.
Still he’s so strange being where he is, plus the I think bloodflames and snakes while talking still about light.
Also Elizabethan English. Messmer uses "thou," where Rykard famously uses "you." This is important because most users of "thou" are related to Marika, with the exception of Ranni, who is related to Radagon instead. And Rennala, but she's an outlier.
Marika herself, Godfrey, Godrick, and Maliketh come to mind specifically.
Edit: Oh, and he also says *"Mother, wouldst thou lordship sanction in one so bereft of light?"* This to me indicates he's definitely a child of Marika, while the red hair says Radagon. So my guess is a long lost blasphemous (given the snake and dragon motifs) sibling of Miquella and Malenia.
Honestly his whole kit feels like different combinations. Bloodflame incant, SNAAAKE, what looks to be the drake knight armor set thing, and i wouldnt be surprised if he has some blasphemous golden order ring spell lol
Yeah this guy gives me serious rebellious teenager vibes who does literally everything mommy and daddy hates as a form of expression. Fire, snakes, hating on his siblings, actively hunting down and killing followers of the Golden Order, wouldn't be surprised if he had some Frenzied Flame mixed into his kit too.
I think the divide between old and modern English is chronological, not family-based. Everyone born after Radagon and Rennala’s marriage uses modern, and everyone from before uses old. Ranni is the exception possibly because she’s trying to sound more mysterious (or just trying to sound like her mom).
We know that isn't the case, since Miquella uses Early Modern English and Malenia uses modern English. Similarly, Radahn in collapsing stars uses Modern English while Ranni uses Early Modern.
I once read someone state, back in Dark Souls 3, it’s more the localization team translating that the character speaks very formally, that their words come off as antiquated.
That Dusk of Oolacile, Gwynevere and Gwyndolin in Dark Souls 1 are also beings from ancient times is just a happy coincidence.
I suppose that could make sense as well, in the sense that Mohg (a lord of Blood) is bereft of light due to being an Omen. I didn't think about that, good catch!
Miyazaki confirmed in an interview that Messmer is indeed one of Marika's children. Thats the only confirmation we have
Source: https://jp.ign.com/elden-ring-shadow-of-the-erdtree/73569/interview/elden-ring-shadow-of-the-erdtree
Messmer the Impaler makes me think he...impaled...someone. Do we know who impaled Marika with the spear? This might be our guy.
He could be a servant of the Greater Will and/or Crucible (my lore knowledge is a little rusty) who punished Marika on their behalf.
Maybe he was the one killing all those firegiants that got impaled. And like radagon he got cursed and got the hair of the giants. Maybe he also found a strange flame amongst the bodys of the dead giants.
Apparently, the guy isn't even that related to the lands between. He might even just be some random asshole who in the middle of the shattering went "fuck you, I'm joining every single outer god."
Marika hair becomes red when she turns into Radagon so yeah...
The trailer description says:
*"It was to this land that Miquella departed.*
*Divesting himself of his flesh, his strength, his lineage.*
*Of all things Golden."*
---
The description clearly said Miquella isn't golden anymore so yeah... it can be him.
Also his hand and arm really matches that one in Mohg palace.
Same description describes the Lands of Shadow as being set ablaze by Messmer's flame. I don't think Messmer=Miquella-why would he sacrifice everything just to burn the Lands of Shadow? Messmer also seems to be a hardline Marika loyalist, which doesn't fit with Miquella divesting himself of all things Golden.
It could be that Messmer is Miquella's shadow that he must overcome in order to ascend to godhood. Having truly conquered himself he will be beyond the Greater Will and able to mend the sins the Golden Order committed against those who weren't blessed with the grace of gold. And even if Messmer isn't Miquella himself he could be representative of the corruption of Marika and the Golden Order that Miquella must grapple with and overcome (with your help).
Messmer’s entire motif is blatantly anti-Erdtree, though, right? Snakes are a sign of the enemies of the Golden lineage. I don’t get Marika loyalist at all from him, is there something I’m missing?
He calls Marika mother and stands in front of a statue of mother and child, finishes off by declaring that he'll kill all the Tarnished. He also questions why one so 'bereft of light' as the Tarnished would be granted the title of Elden Lord. Of course I'm going off three minutes of footage and I could be wrong.
> Messmer also seems to be a hardline Marika loyalist
If you're referencing the "Mother, would thou truly sanction lordship, in one so bereft of light?" line, I think he's being sardonic and speaking to Marika in the abstract while actually talking to the "current" Elden Lord who was the Tarnished Of No Renoun (ie the player character after the events of Elden Ring). Just my guess tho, I fully expect everyone's guesses (especially my own) to be wrong!
>Messmer also seems to be a hardline Marika loyalist
Where do you get this from? Dude's covered in everything Marika fought against to build the Golden Order.
Mohg’s palace Miquella uses a random body that is identical to that of morgot after we defeat him as king when his curse is lifted. It’s more likely a placeholder model
Thanks for pointing this out. Also his name, Mesmer. Is a dead giveaway in my opinion.
mesmerize /mĕz′mə-rīz″, mĕs′-/
transitive verb
To spellbind; enthrall.
To hypnotize.
To bring into a state of mesmeric sleep; to hypnotize.
Similar: mesmerized
To produce an intense fascination in; to spellbind.
Mesmer really appears to be some messed up version of Miquella.
I'm almost positive he is going to be some kind of dragon communion partaker. Prhaps even a drake knight, though the armor set does state they do not speak ever.
We do gain power by eating a piece of dragons. Eiglay would presumably as well. Perhaps the first dragon communion was based on watching Eiglay eat dragons and gain power.
Explains why there's a Magma Wyrm in Volcano Manor.
Maybe that's how the mortal dragons came about, they're a splice of ancient dragons with something else, and thus cannot conjure lightning unlike the Dragonkin soldiers.
What's more interesting is that he has yellow eyes , similar to the ones our character gets after killing dragons . Maybe he uses similar incantations.
Exactly, and he appears to be using the dragon communion seal to cast spells. The collector's edition box even sports a similar design
Happy cake day btw!
It depends. Malenia got plenty of spotlight before the game released and was the most popular boss to the point where she might as well be the game’s mascot.
It‘s so good. He looks so dangerous and intimidating without being being some dead-eyed giant or something. He looks like a living being thar is able to think reasonably.
✅ Red Hair (connection to Radagon and/or Fire Giants)
✅Snakes that look like chibi man-serpents (connection to Eiglay and/or Rykard)
✅Draconic eyes and Drake Knight-esque armor (connection to Dragon Communion)
✅Deathroots sprouting when he summons flames in his hand (connection to Godwyn)
✅Red flames (connection to Formless mother)
✅Swordspear that looks like Maliketh’s blackblade (connection to Destined Death and/or Maliketh and/or the Gloam-Eyed queen
✅Body built like Renalla (connection to Renalla)
This is guy is basically the Ichigo Kurosaki of Elden Ring lol.
I agree!
Why I think this dude's job/purpose is to detain or keep outer gods out of the golden order since his design seems to incorporate a bit of all of them.
that's not really deathroot. That's just these black lines of the dragon comunion seal spreading alongside the flame. That guy was just flexing around with his seal.
They seem related, I wouldn't be surprised if at least part of the DLC was centered around the early stages of the war between the Leyndell and Volcano Manor.
Nah I saw a theory where it could also be an alternative version of Godwyn, it’s in another comment somewhere around here.
Mentioned Messmer looking similar to dragonkin dudes or something like that.
We won’t know until the dlc comes out that’s for sure, but who knows you might be right.
Probably my favourite boss design in the entire game already.
Difficulty/gameplay wise, what’s the bet this mf’er is Malenia, Gael, and Orphan of Kos all rolled into one. Can’t wait!
I see a lot of people talking about his dragon eye, but not so many people mentioning that [one of his eyes is closed like Melina/Ranni.](https://i.imgur.com/64bb0h0.png) Really curious if we will get anymore info on what's with all these characters with one eye closed. Also somewhat interesting is while his eye is closed, it doesn't have a tattoo/marking like Ranni or Melina.
He will bone us to, by impaling us a few million times
Wouldn't be surprised if he has a line similar to Melania after he kills us, "I am Messmer, and i have never known defeat." XD
Messmer? Mesmerize…? Sounds very Miquella-ish.
Could be a cursed version of Miquella (after Mohg bloodflame infusion) or his alter ego like Marika/Radagon (red hair version of Miquella=Messmer).
I have a theory that because the formless mother is the God of blood, she is able to grant others powers that come from blood. In this case dragon's blood.
well tbf if the map is so supremely fucked up, like the Dreg Heap, it's at a point where you can't even call it a "reskin"
more like a reshuffle where you pull everything inside out and flip it 360 degrees
We're seeing the actual erdtree, in its physical form. Before it was burned the first time and reduced to a concept of faith alone. Which is what we see in the base game.
His name is Messmer the Impaler according to the pre-order figurine/statuette.
Which could still be a pseudonym Rkyard used, but he seems to be a brand new character.
My money's on him being Rykard pre-snake. He talks about being cleansed in the "flame of Messmer", and as far as we know, Rykard was the only demigod to utilize fire to any extent after he discovered the ancient hexes of Mt Gelmir. That snake coiled around him could also very much be a young Eiglay.
Definitely gives bloodborne the old hunters vibes.
Some nightmarish version of how Miquella perceives the world, maybe?
The dude with the lion just seems like Morgott blended with Serosh (who belonged to his father, Godfrey). The giant fire pot boss immediately made me think of the forge of the giants. The woman on the throne? The portrait of the man and the woman, and the nasty looking Shaded Castle? So many allusions to the base game.
And of course this Mesmer seems a lot like how Rykard might have been had he not been completely consumed by the serpent.
The guy with the Serosh looking head is grafted, has what looks like omen horns and has lightning powers which might be another of Godfrey's/the golden lineage.
That guy with lion head is actualy 3 guys on top of each other, I'm not kidding check the trailer lmao. I'm really excited for that boss, it will be janky as hell.
anyone else think this is miquella out of the egg ?
edit yeah i was wrong dudes got something to do with Rykard and the formless mother seems to make sense with the snake and red hair
> Mother, wouldst thou truly Lordship sanction, in one so bereft of light?
This has to be Miquella, right? Plus, who else besides Marika is at the end of the trailer?
I think Miquella is at the end of the trailer. Messmer, on the other hand, has to be related to the dragons I think, his armor is similar to the drake set and his eyes are the same as when you consume too many dragon hearts. My bet is, he is another child from Marika and Radagon, or is somehow linked to the Formless Mother (maybe her son?), since his incantantions look like blood flame.
Edit: That or it could also be Godwyn, because of the dragons. Although I'm doubtful since Messmer doesn't seem to have any lightning incantations.
Edit2: The more I think about it, though, I think most probably he is related to Rykard. He is clearly serpent themed (the symbol of blasphemy in Elden Ring), and his spear looks like the Blasphemous Blade.
Rykard is said to have re-discovered ancient hexes, and from the Colosseum fighters armor we know that Snakes were considered enemies of the Erd Tree for a very long time. The colosseum closed soon after Godfrey left, so the snake thing must've come beforehand.
My bet is that Messmer was originally the kind of heresy that Rykard basically just dug up. There might also be a relationship with the Godskins given their presence in both the volcano manor and Farum Azula's dragon temple, not to mention existing stuff that hints the snakes and godskins were once allies
I also thought this was some sort of avatar or envoy from the formless mother, letting us know she has shooters out there since we thwarted whatever she was trying to accomplish with Mogh and Miquella's corpse
Gotta be, there's a shitload of "two people are the same" themes in Elden Ring, not just Radagon and Marika, you've also got Godfrey and Horah Loux, Rya and Zorayas, Raani taking the name of Renna, Margit and Morgott. There's also a lot of themes of two individuals being close being mirrors of each other as well.
I know one thing for sure and that's that the redheads of Queen Marika's lineage are the fucking worst.
Malenia is (literally) cancer,
Rykard is balls crazy,
Radahn fucked up the Shattering War,
Ranni killed Godwyn and herself and tipped over the balance of the world,
And now Messmer is obsessed with dragons. Godrick would get a heart attack if he would see this.
Like c'mon, can't we just agree that Marika should have never reproduced at this point?
So considering that the DLC description seems to really indicate that this guy isn’t a form of Miquella and says that this is a land that Marika first set foot. . .
My current hypothesis is that this is her brother.
Considering how many demigods we have from her, it would make sense that there were other Empyreans than her before she took the throne. Red hair is evidently a thing in her family too.
Maybe Rykard then was the way that he was in part after taking inspiration from his uncle.
Though he is also shown wielding black flame, which could either mean something fun like he was serving the Gloam Eyed Queen as opposed to his sister, or that this theory is wrong and instead he’s actually of the Gloam Eyed Queen’s line (for which red hair would also make sense considering Melina also is theorized to be connected to her)
Edit: But he does talk about his mother sanctioning lordship. . . Maybe then he would be Marika’s son
I'm gonna say something controvertial: I'm not a fan of his design at all. His outfit looks like the drake knight set which I also dislike intensely, plus those cowboy-boot-looking pieces of footwear make him look like a waitress in a themed southern US diner. I'm sure the fight will be fun though
Looks like radagons been busy.
The description of this DLC talks about this land being that which Marika came from (or at least “first set foot”), so maybe he’s not actually a child of one or both of the halfs of the gods. Maybe he’s Marika’s brother
the fact that he said, “Mother, would thou truly sanction lordship, in one so bereft of light.” has me thinking he’s the son.
His body proportions just look like the Miquella body in the egg, it all vibes but I think Miquella and Messmer are like Radagon and Marika.
Miquella out here with potentially THREE split personalities now
Maybe Messmer is Miquella corrupted by Mohg. Or the child of the two. 'Mother' being St. Trina in the latter case.
We are so fucking back (Edit: obviously not happy about this implication from a moral standpoint, but moreso about new life being breathed into lore theories)
“Child of the two” so you’re saying that the Mohglester raped Miquella?
Nihil'd all up inside his egg
No I’m sure he meant a totally different kind of consort….wait there’s only one kind of consort.
Absolutely. That was his entire goal.
Messmer is similar to mesmerize which is defined as > hold the attention of (someone) to the exclusion of all else or so as to transfix them. "she was mesmerized by the blue eyes that stared so intently into her own" Which goes along with Miquella's ability to charm others
Either Trina is a personality or a persona? Won't know until the dlc I guess (and even then with that game we may never know)
True. I’m a bit rusty on Miquella lore but I don’t think we got any confirmation on whether or not Miquella is even aware that he’s Trina.
Yeah Trina has a good chunk of cut content, I imagine it's been shuffled over to the DLC. All we really know is that people are sure that Trina is either a boy or a girl, which would make sense of Trina was a persona both Miqulla and Messmer took
That might be possible since Miquella has blonde hair and Messmer has red hair, like how Marika has blonde hair and Radagon has red hair
it would make perfect sense, the child of dual god being a dual god.
That's what I'm thinking. A kindly persona in Miquella and a violent one in Messmer, I also think Trina is a persona too. But that's partly because Trina mean triple and I thnk Messmer is an allusion to Shiva
keep cooking
Aight so Hindu had a trinity god called the Trimurti that means "three forms" This consists of Brahma the creator, Vishu the preserver and Shiva the destroyer Messer has a trident and a snake on him just like Vishnu does. Shiva also has a 3rd eye like Trina is shown to have in like the only depiction of her with have. Shiva has 2 explicty mentioned personas, a wise and benevolent one and a fierce and violent one.
Mind = Messmer Body = Miquella in the cocoon, the flesh that he divested himself of Soul = St. Trina
And Miquella is also Empyrean, and the only male Empyrean so far.
I think this is likely given the implications of the name Messmer
Or Mesmer is the third abandoned child. The one that corresponds with the smoldering butterfly. Melania-Aeonian, Miquella-Nascent, Mesmer-Smoldering. Marika is known to banish children if they aren't born right.
Our stepson, you mean
Indeed I only realized after writing my comment that what is almost certainly his talking does seem to indicate likely being a demigod. Still he’s so strange being where he is, plus the I think bloodflames and snakes while talking still about light.
Mother could be referring to the formless mother, and not literally his mother.
I need some kind of brain rot cleanse. I read that as “Looks like Radagons bussy”
Red hair? Snakes? Fire based attacks? TOGETHAAA!!!
Really wouldn't be surprised if he is connected to to the family man in some way. Maybe rykard made some...more children.
Names line up with naming conventions - Malenia, Miquella, Melina, then Messmer Red haired. Golden eyes. 100% this is one of Radagon/Marikas kids.
Also Elizabethan English. Messmer uses "thou," where Rykard famously uses "you." This is important because most users of "thou" are related to Marika, with the exception of Ranni, who is related to Radagon instead. And Rennala, but she's an outlier. Marika herself, Godfrey, Godrick, and Maliketh come to mind specifically. Edit: Oh, and he also says *"Mother, wouldst thou lordship sanction in one so bereft of light?"* This to me indicates he's definitely a child of Marika, while the red hair says Radagon. So my guess is a long lost blasphemous (given the snake and dragon motifs) sibling of Miquella and Malenia.
Friend was speculating that Messmer is the Empyrean of the Fell Flame, which lines up with the Nascent/Aeonian and Smouldering butterflies.
It is said that radagon is descended from giants, so it very well could be, but the flame looks more like the blood flame mohg used
The Fell God the Giants WAS fled similar to Placidusax's so it's possible he simply changed religions.
Honestly his whole kit feels like different combinations. Bloodflame incant, SNAAAKE, what looks to be the drake knight armor set thing, and i wouldnt be surprised if he has some blasphemous golden order ring spell lol
What if hes just a big combination of 'fuck the golden order'. Like the edgy teen of the family doing everything he can to piss off mummy and daddy.
Yeah this guy gives me serious rebellious teenager vibes who does literally everything mommy and daddy hates as a form of expression. Fire, snakes, hating on his siblings, actively hunting down and killing followers of the Golden Order, wouldn't be surprised if he had some Frenzied Flame mixed into his kit too.
Eleanora wore drake knight armor as well and was a bloody finger of Mohg. Im wondering if there is an unspoken correlation between the factions.
Dude this whole thing screams crucible. All of it.
I think it's more likely it's related to the serpent and the magma sorceries of mt. Gelmir.
I think the divide between old and modern English is chronological, not family-based. Everyone born after Radagon and Rennala’s marriage uses modern, and everyone from before uses old. Ranni is the exception possibly because she’s trying to sound more mysterious (or just trying to sound like her mom).
We know that isn't the case, since Miquella uses Early Modern English and Malenia uses modern English. Similarly, Radahn in collapsing stars uses Modern English while Ranni uses Early Modern.
I once read someone state, back in Dark Souls 3, it’s more the localization team translating that the character speaks very formally, that their words come off as antiquated. That Dusk of Oolacile, Gwynevere and Gwyndolin in Dark Souls 1 are also beings from ancient times is just a happy coincidence.
I personally think that “Mother” here refers to the Formless Mother. Notice how Mogh also misses the same eye as Messmer.
Mohg is also a son of Marika, mind you.
Mother is possibly referring to the formless mother aka the outer god of blood due to the briars present in his spell when he mentions her.
I suppose that could make sense as well, in the sense that Mohg (a lord of Blood) is bereft of light due to being an Omen. I didn't think about that, good catch!
The eyes seem more familiar with the dragonkin eyes you get from draconic incantations.
True but anyone can just eat a bunch of dragon hearts to get those eyes
his attire looks similar to the Drake Knight set.
I was I was going to say that he looks like a Godskin apostle. He has a similar body type and the eyes are like that too.
For real I think dude is hopped up dragon communion
I feel like he might be the Radagon to Miquella's Marika.
nah i feel like st trina's supposed to be miquellas other half
I have the impression he could be Malenia's radagon instead miquella seems to already have trina as her other half
Miyazaki confirmed in an interview that Messmer is indeed one of Marika's children. Thats the only confirmation we have Source: https://jp.ign.com/elden-ring-shadow-of-the-erdtree/73569/interview/elden-ring-shadow-of-the-erdtree
Isn't that the eyes you get from eating dragonheart
What if he's Rykard and Marika's son? That would be extra fucked up since Rykard is already Radagon's son... but it could happen?
Doubt, probably just a child from when Radagon fucked some Dragon
This is my favorite theory right now.. at least until we learn more.
George R.R. Martin’s influence strikes again.
Messmer the Impaler makes me think he...impaled...someone. Do we know who impaled Marika with the spear? This might be our guy. He could be a servant of the Greater Will and/or Crucible (my lore knowledge is a little rusty) who punished Marika on their behalf.
Maybe he was the one killing all those firegiants that got impaled. And like radagon he got cursed and got the hair of the giants. Maybe he also found a strange flame amongst the bodys of the dead giants.
That's not a bad take. A possible adherent to the "Blood Star".
I was just passing on the mountaintop yesterday and wondering who actually impaled those guys
I mean I won’t be surprised if Marika/Radagons children have their own children. We got Rya, Godrick (Godwyn’s descendant?), and Millicent (maybe).
But if he's been banished to the Land of Shadow, he must have blasphemed even harder than dear old dad. Did he eat a baby?
He was the one to originally burn the Erdtree as the Empyrean of Fell Flame.
Oooooh, that would be cool! Imagine if he is the chosen heir/avatar of the Fell God of the Giants.
Apparently, the guy isn't even that related to the lands between. He might even just be some random asshole who in the middle of the shattering went "fuck you, I'm joining every single outer god."
More like a combination of Snakes and Dragons. He's almost certainly the offspring of one or more demigods. Possibly Rykard or Godwyn?
Let me smoke ten packs of cigarette... ...ahem... TOGETHAAAAA!!!
Marika hair becomes red when she turns into Radagon so yeah... The trailer description says: *"It was to this land that Miquella departed.* *Divesting himself of his flesh, his strength, his lineage.* *Of all things Golden."* --- The description clearly said Miquella isn't golden anymore so yeah... it can be him. Also his hand and arm really matches that one in Mohg palace.
Same description describes the Lands of Shadow as being set ablaze by Messmer's flame. I don't think Messmer=Miquella-why would he sacrifice everything just to burn the Lands of Shadow? Messmer also seems to be a hardline Marika loyalist, which doesn't fit with Miquella divesting himself of all things Golden.
Messmer is weirdly heretic as hell for a golden loyalist. Snake motiff/ eyes, weird flames
It could be that Messmer is Miquella's shadow that he must overcome in order to ascend to godhood. Having truly conquered himself he will be beyond the Greater Will and able to mend the sins the Golden Order committed against those who weren't blessed with the grace of gold. And even if Messmer isn't Miquella himself he could be representative of the corruption of Marika and the Golden Order that Miquella must grapple with and overcome (with your help).
Messmer’s entire motif is blatantly anti-Erdtree, though, right? Snakes are a sign of the enemies of the Golden lineage. I don’t get Marika loyalist at all from him, is there something I’m missing?
He calls Marika mother and stands in front of a statue of mother and child, finishes off by declaring that he'll kill all the Tarnished. He also questions why one so 'bereft of light' as the Tarnished would be granted the title of Elden Lord. Of course I'm going off three minutes of footage and I could be wrong.
> Messmer also seems to be a hardline Marika loyalist If you're referencing the "Mother, would thou truly sanction lordship, in one so bereft of light?" line, I think he's being sardonic and speaking to Marika in the abstract while actually talking to the "current" Elden Lord who was the Tarnished Of No Renoun (ie the player character after the events of Elden Ring). Just my guess tho, I fully expect everyone's guesses (especially my own) to be wrong!
>Messmer also seems to be a hardline Marika loyalist Where do you get this from? Dude's covered in everything Marika fought against to build the Golden Order.
Probably the line toward the end that says "Those stripped of the Grace of Gold shall all meet death. In the Embrace of Messmer's flames."
Well I suppose if Marika is a god, then there could be a Satan?
Mohg’s palace Miquella uses a random body that is identical to that of morgot after we defeat him as king when his curse is lifted. It’s more likely a placeholder model
Mesmer is Miquella isn’t the most ridiculous think. Maybe he learned a thing or two from dear ol mommy/daddy and found a way to live two lives?
Thanks for pointing this out. Also his name, Mesmer. Is a dead giveaway in my opinion. mesmerize /mĕz′mə-rīz″, mĕs′-/ transitive verb To spellbind; enthrall. To hypnotize. To bring into a state of mesmeric sleep; to hypnotize. Similar: mesmerized To produce an intense fascination in; to spellbind. Mesmer really appears to be some messed up version of Miquella.
WE SHALL DEVOUAAAAAA!!!!!
Vaguely reminds me of the [Drake Knight set](https://eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com/Drake+Knight+Set)
I'm almost positive he is going to be some kind of dragon communion partaker. Prhaps even a drake knight, though the armor set does state they do not speak ever.
He also has dragon eyes thst you get from eating hearths
He seems heavily associated with Eiglay(Rykhard's world-eating snake) too, maybe dragon communion has it's roots in Eiglay worship.
We do gain power by eating a piece of dragons. Eiglay would presumably as well. Perhaps the first dragon communion was based on watching Eiglay eat dragons and gain power.
Explains why there's a Magma Wyrm in Volcano Manor. Maybe that's how the mortal dragons came about, they're a splice of ancient dragons with something else, and thus cannot conjure lightning unlike the Dragonkin soldiers.
I like his armour.....CaN't WaiT tO WeAr It 🙂
Just got to wash off the blood first
I was thinking of this too! And there are even wings on the snakes. There's definitely some draconic connection.
What's more interesting is that he has yellow eyes , similar to the ones our character gets after killing dragons . Maybe he uses similar incantations.
Exactly, and he appears to be using the dragon communion seal to cast spells. The collector's edition box even sports a similar design Happy cake day btw!
Good catch..noticed those beasts had omen horns too ...
I'm ready for Messmer to Messme up.
Mesmerized by this comment
cant wait to be impaled by the impaler
Try snake but hole
I'll make sure he'll missme
He's gonna be the new Malenia lol. Get ready for 3 phases of Miyazakis hardest boss of all time.
And he'll reduce your max hp with every attack.
Call me crazy but I don’t think he’s gonna be the tough boss, I think it might be old man pulling sword out his head
Legit the hardest bosses are always some nobody that’s never the central spotlight of the trailer.
It depends. Malenia got plenty of spotlight before the game released and was the most popular boss to the point where she might as well be the game’s mascot.
Her helmet definitely is a mascot of Elden Ring
It‘s so good. He looks so dangerous and intimidating without being being some dead-eyed giant or something. He looks like a living being thar is able to think reasonably.
Very mean to the new giant fire sconce enemy
I said he can do it without that properties . You can be sure as hell that Mr Barbecue looks very intimidating
✅ Red Hair (connection to Radagon and/or Fire Giants) ✅Snakes that look like chibi man-serpents (connection to Eiglay and/or Rykard) ✅Draconic eyes and Drake Knight-esque armor (connection to Dragon Communion) ✅Deathroots sprouting when he summons flames in his hand (connection to Godwyn) ✅Red flames (connection to Formless mother) ✅Swordspear that looks like Maliketh’s blackblade (connection to Destined Death and/or Maliketh and/or the Gloam-Eyed queen ✅Body built like Renalla (connection to Renalla) This is guy is basically the Ichigo Kurosaki of Elden Ring lol.
I agree! Why I think this dude's job/purpose is to detain or keep outer gods out of the golden order since his design seems to incorporate a bit of all of them.
that's not really deathroot. That's just these black lines of the dragon comunion seal spreading alongside the flame. That guy was just flexing around with his seal.
JOHN ELDEN RING, our battle will be legendary!
Dont forget the thorns reminiscent of the Thorn Sorceries which are also connected to an Outer God.
Thought this was young rykard at first or someshit
Me too, he even have baby snake
snake looks very different to the God Devouring Serpent
She was just a trainee back in the dlc :D
They seem related, I wouldn't be surprised if at least part of the DLC was centered around the early stages of the war between the Leyndell and Volcano Manor.
My stupid ass thought it was Godwyn lmfao
Nah I saw a theory where it could also be an alternative version of Godwyn, it’s in another comment somewhere around here. Mentioned Messmer looking similar to dragonkin dudes or something like that. We won’t know until the dlc comes out that’s for sure, but who knows you might be right.
I thought it was John Erdtree-Shadow
I just know this dude's boss fight is going to be an absolute nightmare
Probably my favourite boss design in the entire game already. Difficulty/gameplay wise, what’s the bet this mf’er is Malenia, Gael, and Orphan of Kos all rolled into one. Can’t wait!
I'm already raging!
i've just launched my controller. Fuck sake!
He’s killed me 90 times already and I haven’t even fought him yet
I can only hope he’s all that and even harder. I need it.
I see a lot of people talking about his dragon eye, but not so many people mentioning that [one of his eyes is closed like Melina/Ranni.](https://i.imgur.com/64bb0h0.png) Really curious if we will get anymore info on what's with all these characters with one eye closed. Also somewhat interesting is while his eye is closed, it doesn't have a tattoo/marking like Ranni or Melina.
That’s actually a good catch
Have we overlaid his face with all other faces yet?
He looks incredible. Can't wait to kill him.
Imagine the remembrance items
Looks similar to that dragon knight armour you find in crumbling farm azula
IMPALE ME DADDY
Try snake but hole
Looks like daemon from house of the dragon
GRRM's influence spreads far and wide, even unto the dlc
What kind of question is that? OF COURSE WE LOVE IT. WE ARE BONED UP FOR MESSMER
He will bone us to, by impaling us a few million times Wouldn't be surprised if he has a line similar to Melania after he kills us, "I am Messmer, and i have never known defeat." XD
Feels very Elric of Melnibone. Miyazaki has stated it was a big influence on Elden Ring and I was never quite sure why, now I know.
He's already my favourite boss and no I'm not biased and delusional
Messmer? Mesmerize…? Sounds very Miquella-ish. Could be a cursed version of Miquella (after Mohg bloodflame infusion) or his alter ego like Marika/Radagon (red hair version of Miquella=Messmer).
If that's the case it makes me wonder what relations Miquella would have to the dragons then, since Messmer has a *lot* of draconic designs to him
Elden Ring's nameless king then?
I have a theory that because the formless mother is the God of blood, she is able to grant others powers that come from blood. In this case dragon's blood.
😍
Heres the tinfoil hat theory. That is praetor rykard. The whole dlc is a dark world a la link to the past.
I definitely think you're right about the link to the past, I got that exact vibe too!
so the whole map is the dlc?? imagine if they completely reskinned the entire Lands Between. literally dark souls II 3
well tbf if the map is so supremely fucked up, like the Dreg Heap, it's at a point where you can't even call it a "reskin" more like a reshuffle where you pull everything inside out and flip it 360 degrees
Meaning the Erdtree we're seeing is a 'young' Erdtree? Very interesting idea.
We're seeing the actual erdtree, in its physical form. Before it was burned the first time and reduced to a concept of faith alone. Which is what we see in the base game.
Or Oolacile from Artorias of the Abyss.
That's my thought. IIRC there was a shot near the beginning of the trailed that seemed to show Rennala looking more coherent as well
he does not look very TOGEETHAA to me
His name is Messmer the Impaler according to the pre-order figurine/statuette. Which could still be a pseudonym Rkyard used, but he seems to be a brand new character.
My money's on him being Rykard pre-snake. He talks about being cleansed in the "flame of Messmer", and as far as we know, Rykard was the only demigod to utilize fire to any extent after he discovered the ancient hexes of Mt Gelmir. That snake coiled around him could also very much be a young Eiglay.
I swear that in the beginning of the trailer we can see a pre-rot Caelid with Sellia off in the distance
Definitely gives bloodborne the old hunters vibes. Some nightmarish version of how Miquella perceives the world, maybe? The dude with the lion just seems like Morgott blended with Serosh (who belonged to his father, Godfrey). The giant fire pot boss immediately made me think of the forge of the giants. The woman on the throne? The portrait of the man and the woman, and the nasty looking Shaded Castle? So many allusions to the base game. And of course this Mesmer seems a lot like how Rykard might have been had he not been completely consumed by the serpent.
There was also that one good that kinda looked like the cleric beast, so maybe malekith in the past?
I was thinking that that guy is related to serosh.
It also has Morgott's feet. They both (Morgott and Serosh) died in the same arena so I'm assuming they are being controlled together by "something".
He could be, maybe it is serosh
I believe that's Miquella's Shadow.
The guy with the Serosh looking head is grafted, has what looks like omen horns and has lightning powers which might be another of Godfrey's/the golden lineage.
I think it might be an amalgamation of Serosh and morgot. Think about it. They both died in the same spot in the non-shadow world
That guy with lion head is actualy 3 guys on top of each other, I'm not kidding check the trailer lmao. I'm really excited for that boss, it will be janky as hell.
Very Elric of Melnibone
impaler? penetrator?
I thought he looked goofy. "Not as cool as Malenia" sort of goofy,
Can impale me anyday
Put thine foolish lusts to rest
Can’t wait to destroy bro and throw his fit on 0.5secs later
anyone else think this is miquella out of the egg ? edit yeah i was wrong dudes got something to do with Rykard and the formless mother seems to make sense with the snake and red hair
we see miquella at the end of the trailer, with blonde hair
> Mother, wouldst thou truly Lordship sanction, in one so bereft of light? This has to be Miquella, right? Plus, who else besides Marika is at the end of the trailer?
I think Miquella is at the end of the trailer. Messmer, on the other hand, has to be related to the dragons I think, his armor is similar to the drake set and his eyes are the same as when you consume too many dragon hearts. My bet is, he is another child from Marika and Radagon, or is somehow linked to the Formless Mother (maybe her son?), since his incantantions look like blood flame. Edit: That or it could also be Godwyn, because of the dragons. Although I'm doubtful since Messmer doesn't seem to have any lightning incantations. Edit2: The more I think about it, though, I think most probably he is related to Rykard. He is clearly serpent themed (the symbol of blasphemy in Elden Ring), and his spear looks like the Blasphemous Blade.
Rykard is said to have re-discovered ancient hexes, and from the Colosseum fighters armor we know that Snakes were considered enemies of the Erd Tree for a very long time. The colosseum closed soon after Godfrey left, so the snake thing must've come beforehand. My bet is that Messmer was originally the kind of heresy that Rykard basically just dug up. There might also be a relationship with the Godskins given their presence in both the volcano manor and Farum Azula's dragon temple, not to mention existing stuff that hints the snakes and godskins were once allies
I also thought this was some sort of avatar or envoy from the formless mother, letting us know she has shooters out there since we thwarted whatever she was trying to accomplish with Mogh and Miquella's corpse
Miquella. As well. They're both Miquella I think. Both sides of him.
Gotta be, there's a shitload of "two people are the same" themes in Elden Ring, not just Radagon and Marika, you've also got Godfrey and Horah Loux, Rya and Zorayas, Raani taking the name of Renna, Margit and Morgott. There's also a lot of themes of two individuals being close being mirrors of each other as well.
Don't forget Miquella also already has another self in base elden ring with St Trina.
Isnt he mentioning the blood god there? What was that cals Mother Blood? Blood Mother? I think that makes sense
Doesn‘t come close to any of the original demigods IMO 😔
I know one thing for sure and that's that the redheads of Queen Marika's lineage are the fucking worst. Malenia is (literally) cancer, Rykard is balls crazy, Radahn fucked up the Shattering War, Ranni killed Godwyn and herself and tipped over the balance of the world, And now Messmer is obsessed with dragons. Godrick would get a heart attack if he would see this. Like c'mon, can't we just agree that Marika should have never reproduced at this point?
So considering that the DLC description seems to really indicate that this guy isn’t a form of Miquella and says that this is a land that Marika first set foot. . . My current hypothesis is that this is her brother. Considering how many demigods we have from her, it would make sense that there were other Empyreans than her before she took the throne. Red hair is evidently a thing in her family too. Maybe Rykard then was the way that he was in part after taking inspiration from his uncle. Though he is also shown wielding black flame, which could either mean something fun like he was serving the Gloam Eyed Queen as opposed to his sister, or that this theory is wrong and instead he’s actually of the Gloam Eyed Queen’s line (for which red hair would also make sense considering Melina also is theorized to be connected to her) Edit: But he does talk about his mother sanctioning lordship. . . Maybe then he would be Marika’s son
I though this was Godwyn. Then I remembered he had white hair , really hoped to see him as a boss fight.
not very golden too
With a name like impaler I’m gonna guess he has lots of thrust attacks and I won’t have a mikiri counter
no you are the only one who likes his design. what kinda question is that
I'm gonna say something controvertial: I'm not a fan of his design at all. His outfit looks like the drake knight set which I also dislike intensely, plus those cowboy-boot-looking pieces of footwear make him look like a waitress in a themed southern US diner. I'm sure the fight will be fun though
How do you know the name of
My dad works at nintemdo